83 replies to this topic

[Fang-it]

The sailing god at my boat club says I'm too old for a 29er... at 46 years of age.
I notice mostly kids/teenagers sail them.
Tried one recently - tough work and first time on a trap - they're wobbly as hell - but I'm getting fitter.
I want to prove the sailing god wrong... cos they're fast and look like good fun.
Do I try to learn to sail a 29er - or try and go straight up to the 49er?!
Haven't sailed many skiffs before.
Your thoughts appreciated.

[rantifarian]

How old you are is one thing, and not all that relevant. How old your joints are is more important, do you have fucked old laser sailor knees, or shoulders nearly frozen up?

if you have the time and money to do it, give the 29er a go for a season, then think about having a crack at the 49er. learning to trap on a 49er will be a messy exercise

[17mika]

How much do you weigh?
If you are fit and not to heavy you will love the boat.

49er is an awesome machine, and if you (and your mate) are over 70kg you will love the extra space and the chance to walk around. But I would never recommend 49er directly if you have almost no trapezing experience. To steer the 49er, the skipper has to be reeeally good at trapezing, because he has to concentrate sooo much in helming consistently in the manouvres.

Summary. if you are under 140kg go 29er and then 49er (and get ready to get wet ), if you are over that, get some other hevier semi-skiff (rs 500/800, laser 4k, other boat) and then 49er.

[mustang__1]

age is relative. most of the fleet is fairly young, im one of the older guys in the fleet at 22 (bought my boat at 18), and while it is humbling to be beat by someone quite a few years younger, i love sailing the boat...and im too damn small for a 49er - at least to crew. i may go helm one of these years, but for now im happy with the 29er. i would definitely not jump into a 49er if you do not know how to trapeze - you will hurt yourself and your boat/sails...

[southseasailor]

Dont listen to the so called 'sailing god', if you feel you are up for the challenge and have some patience...GO FOR IT!!!

I was told a heap of crap about the RS Single hander skiffs like the RS600 and 700, luckily I didnt pay any heed to the guy (who doesnt freakin sail where I live anyway!!) and ended up with an RS700, albeit second hand..or 'used'.

My lead up to the 700 was by purchasing a used Laser 'Vago'...I had sat down and thought long and hard about my sailing experience, and what I wanted to achieve next, ideally my next boat would have a modern assymetric spinnaker and trapeze. The Vago fitted the bill, as its a tough albeit heavy boat. I had never used a trapeze before, let alone a assy spinnaker:) I had quite a time learning! lots of fun...lots of spills.

Sat down and thought some more and decided I wanted something a bit more special. Musto Skiff was one option, the RS700 won out on price..Mustos are pricey on the used market...BUT..they are well made boats. The RS700 is actually very good too and more user friendly in some ways..yes I have sailed both boat types. In hindsight I am glad I didnt get the Musto, the cassette type rudder would have been a major pain with the kelp that lines the shores where I live.

My Vago time was a huge help with the 700, in fact the 700 is easier to sail...its built for solo use, its light and offers good stability at low speeds ie when you are crouched in the hull, sorting out spinny lines etc. I did think of the RS600 but the lack of a spinny put me off.

So yeah, why not try the 29er? younger folk might be nimble etc but its up to YOUR enjoyment in life...this should never be dictated by someone else.

I would, if I were you, try get some trapeze time as crew...then try it as helm...then, if you want to pick up some more skills..try it solo.

Let me tell you, the Skiff I have can be quite a busy place when powered up...but its time on the water, and now its second nature to me...my spinny gybes are a bit poor still have gotten into kitesurfing now, so the 700 dont get used so much these days.

[Fang-it]

Guys - thanks for your advice and good to hear.
My knees and legs are fine - I was a cyclist as a kid, so have strong residual strength in legs and am working out at gym each day to increase ab strength.
I weigh 75 kgs.
The trickiest thing I found was getting on the trap quickly and fluidly... and also the constant balancing of the boat.
You need to be really nimble to scramble up the gunwales when it starts to roll!
But boy - what fun under full spinnaker reaching downwind and steering - like a cross between a windsurfer and a dinghy.
I'm not too worried about being an old man and being beaten by young kids - I just want to sail fast.
It's a true 21st century high tech boat - not like the poor old lasers and tasars the other fellows my age sail.
I am determined to prove the sailing god wrong.

[couchsurfer]

....yeh,it's a pretty young crowd in the 29er fleet-make's for a different experience,,,

...though there's many 'older' sorts who enjoy singlehanding 29ers
,,,,,,,,,at 53,I certainly don't consider myself as too old!


.......you can 'search' a singlehanded thread here

[halfcolours]

Never too old, we had a father/son combo sail locally who were 15/50odd. If you put aside the "youth pathway" concept the 29er makes for a great OD club racing skiff, much the same as the Cherub/MG14/GP14 has/does at some point in there class life. It benefits everyone to have the foggies the class because fleet sizes increase, good young racers can go up against the season club vet etc.

[Chapter Four]

I sailed 2 seasons with my daughter on her 29er, I'm 41. Absolute blast of a boat, you won't regret it. You are never too old, and trapping is so much easier than hiking.

[fastyacht]

It never occurred to me to consider 45 too old to do this.

[olivers]

I'd suggest Paul Heineken at 63.
Here is the text of an article advocating parental involvement in the class from the 29erNorthAmerican.org website:

• 2009 US Nationals Follow Up by Paul Heineken At the recent 29er Nationals, many people complimented me for sailing this "kids" boat at my advanced age (63). But what I saw was an enormous missed opportunity by adults to help their kids, their junior sailing programs, and the class. The parking lot was filled with enthusiastic parents, many of the right size (< 180lb) and gender (either), to sail with their kid. But they weren't doing it--too intimidated I presume. A few parents said they tried it once and gave up. Parents, you'd expect more from your kid. Get back on that horse!
  
  The 29er is by far the best dinghy I've ever sailed. Why hasn't the class grown more? It's too easy to blame the eastern yachting establishment. I think the main reasons are as follows:
  
• 1. 29er kids have a limited time window, usually ages 14-17, then they go off to college and get stuck back in the FJs for college sailing.
• 2. It is a bit intimidating for a 12-14 year old to start, and the first ride should never be done with another beginner.
• 3. Every beginning 29er sailor should have an experienced 29er sailor take them out for the first few times, mostly to sort out capsize recovery without fear.
• 4. Beginning kids have no chance of doing well in early races. Good luck isn't enough. So at least one of their early years is frustrating for a kid that was used to success.
• 5. For parents, a 29er is more expensive than a (club owned) Club 420 or FJ.

The result is that the overall 29er fleet is excellent in quality but small; the front of the fleet is superb, but it is dominated by kids with very committed parents. It's not that inviting to the larger group of young sailors, even though the boat is soooo much fun to sail!
At the recent Nationals, I realized that I had taken 3 of the top 10 skippers to their first 29er clinic/regatta, either as skipper or crew. I also was involved with getting Matt Noble, Jen Glass, and John Heineken going on a 29er (although Jake von Heeckeren deserves credit for first hooking John).
Other parents can do the same. Learn the boat, have a lot of fun, and provide some continuity to the fleet. Your 12 year old will be happy to sail with you for the first few times. Then you take out their friend. Very soon the kids will be sailing together and the fleet will have a new team. Then pick another gung-ho kid and take him or her sailing. When your kid goes off to college, he/she will have a crew back home to occasionally call on. Your kid may even compete to get you because you have other options among new junior sailors.
Get going parents!

Paul Heineken, MD,
USA 529
Chair, StFYC Junior Sailing Committee

10/4/09

[Matt D]

The guy I sail with on the I14 jumped into I14s from a keelboat background. If he can do it on the I14, you can do it on the 29er or 49er.

The key is to have a stubborn/determined personality. You could be an expert 505 or laser sailor but your first ten times out on any skiff or skiff trainer is likely to be a humbling experience. If you can get out a dozen times in fairly rapid succession, not get too frustrated, you'll be on your way.

[ortegakid]

I solo'd my 29'er many times, three sails up, at 57, before I bought my AC, you are never too old, maybe just to scared. Try It you'll love it!

[BWR]

Go for it, any skiff sailing beats sit in / hiking / lead. Dn't be intimidated by the 29er, easy training boat. I started sailing skiffs in old I-14s and have gradually moved up to newer, better boats as the boat slowed me down. Way more fun than any other sailing I do, ( which is a lot of diff. Boats). Look around to see what boats are around, start w/ 29er and advance to a 49er or 14. Have fun!

[southseasailor]

A Musto clip on Ytube advertised the age range...something like 15yrs to 65yrs old is the known age range of Musto 'Pilots' (my term...as Skiffs are like guided missiles:) )

I would add, to save time and frustration, a mast head float...this will keep the boat on its side if you get spilled. I use a 20ltr float bag on my RS700..tied onto the main halyard, as the sail is hoisted up it goes. Could do with a smaller bag like a 15ltr size, even a 10ltr would be good. I dont have a safety boat to assist me and with kelp along the shoreline its common sense to use such a float. Upwind speed might suffer a tiny bit, but to be honest just bearing off a bit sees a good increase in speed...in fact the upwind progress is just awesome.

I would be hard pushed to go back to hiking boats. The RS100 I tried was a lovely boat but upwind it bored me to death.

[cantp1]

Go for it. In Canada we've had a handful of guys your age come through the fleet on their way to 49er or i14's. Lakota being one of them!
As long as you're reasonnably fit, go for it. That guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
Once you've put in a year on the 29er you can get a 49er or even 49erFX!

[DAK]

I crewed for my son who was 11 when he started helming on a 29er. He thought they were cool and opti's weren't. To keep him involved in the sport, I got on board at 46 and just got replaced last year. Ironically it was because I was to heavy even though it was him who put on the weight. We were usually finishing midfleet. Best decision I've made as a sailor and a parent.

[BalticBandit]

I'd start on the 29er... its a more forgiving boat than the 49er. First off the blades are sturdier... your trap hook will wreak havoc with your 49er blade unless you have some experience.

Secondly, if you don't have much skiff experience, the 49er is a STEEP learning curve. I started on it as my first Skiff at age 37, and it was a helluva learning curve.

[Northshore Pirate]

My son came to me 6 years ago and sail 'Can I buy a International 14?' we spent 18 months researching skiffs, passed on Nokia (18 footer), looked at 29ers and 49ers. Neither of us had any trap experience, though we extensively sail big boats and Lasers. We settled on I14, US1112, a International Composite Engineering design built in NZ but located in MN. The first year he sailed it a few times with a friend and let me on board when there was no wind. The second year it sat in the back yard. For some reason last year we decided to learn to sail her and went sailing several times a week in Oyster Bay without a coach. Capsized 58 times! Our confidence measured by wind strength kept increasing until we could sail in 12-15 kts. Cameron Puckey brought his new B6 to Seawanhaka and taught us a lot. The fleet is great at supporting new people and the forum is very active. You should check out the forum as well as used boats.

Last winter we rearranged some fitting and painted her. Feels like we have a new boat. We plan on going to the Worlds at Royal Canadian next September.

Oh, I almost forgot, my son is 21 and I am currently 65. The oldest crew sailing 14s are over 70 (that's each not total) and at least one of them has been sailing 14s for 50 years.

BTY,
There is nothing absolutely nothing half so much worthwhile as blasting across a harbor, double trapped in a I14 with your son as crew.

[Snikch]

If you decide you want to eventually go to a 49er, the 29er is also a great platform- I added a second trap wire set and double tiller extensions so I could practice steering (aka 29erXX but without the rig upgrade) from the wire. Sail that way a few dozen times and your 49er learning curve will be significantly smaller.

and I'm 21 and not selling my 29er anytime soon!

[southseasailor]

If its a double hander Skiff, check out the RS800. If I could get a regular crew either helming or crewing, I dont mind being crew, I would have bought one of these ages ago.

Tried one out last year while on holiday, nice boat as its quite user friendly but offers a challenge to be sailed really well. Not as finnicky as the 49er I bet.

Not sure if there are many in the USA, assuming this is where you are.

Here you go

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=eWGzRWKgjMM

[Fang-it]

Thanks guys - this is very heartening to read.
Southseasailor I'm in Sydney, home of the `9er boats.
My 11 year old boy is dead keen to sail a 29er with me... I'll build up my experience and strength first I think.

[fastyacht]

Fang-it---I got back into the 505 when my son turned 12--I was 43 at the time-and I crew for him.

If you don't mind getting wet, you'll have loads of fun and so will he. More fathers should do this :-)

You really don't need great conditioning for this. Just get some moderate exercise going. And include the arms and hands so that you don't give yourself tennis elbow! (spinnaker sheeting elbow haha). By all means do it now--don't let your season pass you by. He's only 11 once :-)

Also, because you will be "new" to this it also gives you the chance to be a "resource" rather than a "boss" with him--building up his own leadership and decisionmaking. All around a great opportunity.

[southseasailor]

A crewed skiff type trainer is ideal, you can get to suss out how to work as a team...calling any 'lifts and headers' that are coming through and predicting the strength of any gusts.

As long as you dont take it too serious and keep it fun you will have a blast I love sailing the skiff I have, and cant understand why others dont want to get involved..but thats thier loss. Life goes forwards, there aint no pause button and there sure isnt a rewind button either

[BalticBandit]

Well if you are in Oz my suggestion of Sail Minorca http://www.minorcasailing.co.uk/ won't be helpful... But SouthSeaSailor will attest to how it can get you up parts of the learning curve pretty quickly

[Speedskater]

When we first sailed our 29er at Kingston, we commented that the last time we sailed at CORK in a Fireball, none of you competitors had yet been born. When we raced at the 2001 Worlds, our combined weight (in kilograms) was less than our combined age. We weighed 112 kilograms.

[cantp1]

When we first sailed our 29er at Kingston, we commented that the last time we sailed at CORK in a Fireball, none of you competitors had yet been born. When we raced at the 2001 Worlds, our combined weight (in kilograms) was less than our combined age. We weighed 112 kilograms.

Mr. Kevin Graf?
Glad to see you're still around...!
I was part of that initial cohort of youngsters sailing 29er's in Canada way back when... and you're probably right about not being born when you were last at CORK...
Hope all is well!

The Graf's sailing 29er definitely prove the point of this thread. You can do it at any age and still totally have fun!

[Speng]

Just get some kneepads the antiskid is a bit aggro...

[Speedskater]

"cantp1" what boat did you sail?

We raced the Fireball at CORK from maybe 1975 to about 1980 or 81.

[southseasailor]

Hi BalticBandit hows things?

Yes, I went to Menorca in July last year..pricey week at about 1800:00 quid sterling but cheaper than buying an untried boat, import it and then find I cant get on with it.

So it was an ideal time to try out boats like the RS100, 800 and the mighty Musto Skiff (quite smitten by that Skiff, wobbly at low speeds but once you get 'dialled in' on the settings and out on the wire, what a hoot! I didnt bother with the RS200, 400 or 500 as these dont interest me much. 500 looked a good boat though..you might, just might get away with singlehanding it on trapeze. Saw the 29ers there too, didnt bother with these as the youngsters were out on them most of the time..they look a handful of boat but watched a couple of crews who handled the boat well. I got some footage I took while on a Musto...29er going well but me overtaking

I am no ace by any means, just love the Skiff I have..blasting along in a fresh wind...cracking day, the occasional cormorant just missing the mast (quite dim birds those, but they can sure zoom along) The trap skills took some time to get the hang of, no pun intended, but once you pick up the skills I would be quite suprised if you ever want to hike again. I took the RS100 out a couple of times on that weeks sailing, yeah..nice boat but found it boring going upwind

[BalticBandit]

Yeah I don't get the "I want to torque my knees upwind" appeal of the RS100.

For me I'm having to sell my beloved Musto (Ad on the SA pages) Because I'm moving to France. And its cheaper to sell and buy new than to move the boat (plus it helps grow the NA Fleet).

So until I sort out the details of living in Paris and sailing (my partner assures me that Lorient and L'Sable is a nice weekender) I'll be boatless

[southseasailor]

RS700? plenty of these about, in the UK on Apolloduck I counted 7..a few days back, there were 5 Mustos as well..all around the £5000:00 mark, more or less.

France is a sailing nation, then you got Holland etc as well. Wish there was enthusiasm here for sailing...but thats not going to happen overnight. Be fun to matchrace at least.

[BCarter]

I'm 49 (for at least another month) and my wife is only slightly behind me. We campaigned the 29er and the 29erXX (great addition to the boat) this year at the local club sailing portsmouth and we both love the boat. Get one as soon as you can and pick up some kneepads. We are self taught and had almost no dinghy experience but we bought the boat never having seen a 29er in person. We've gotten great advice from lots of those who've already replied to your thread and we learn something new every time out. The boat is a blast to sail. It is hard for us to believe the boats that aren't planing are having as much fun as we are. If all sailboats were this much fun there would be a lot more (and possibly younger) faces on the water. Be patient at first and learn to keep the boat balanced. Learning to steer under the rig goes a long way to making the boat seem much easier to sail.

[mustang__1]

Just get some kneepads the antiskid is a bit aggro...

not nearly enough! it needs more... my boat is fairly ancient though. at any rate, it helps immensely in any of these boats to wear a thin wetsuit. keeps everything where it should be when you're on the trap, and provides a little bit of padding/protection when you fall etc. i tend to like to wear boardshorts over my wetsuit if im helming so i dont tear up the suit, but other than that, wetsuit all the way. in warmer conditions i'll jump in every now and then to cool off. mind you, unless im racing, i wont wear a wetsuit when its like 80deg out... but if im racing, i dont want to have to worry about nicking myself up etc.

[southseasailor]

I'm 49 (for at least another month) and my wife is only slightly behind me. We campaigned the 29er and the 29erXX (great addition to the boat) this year at the local club sailing portsmouth and we both love the boat. Get one as soon as you can and pick up some kneepads. We are self taught and had almost no dinghy experience but we bought the boat never having seen a 29er in person. We've gotten great advice from lots of those who've already replied to your thread and we learn something new every time out. The boat is a blast to sail. It is hard for us to believe the boats that aren't planing are having as much fun as we are. If all sailboats were this much fun there would be a lot more (and possibly younger) faces on the water. Be patient at first and learn to keep the boat balanced. Learning to steer under the rig goes a long way to making the boat seem much easier to sail.

I like that:) you went and bought a 29er having little dinghy experience? that shows that it can be done, with the right approach to it all. I'm the same regarding the performance, If its not a Skiff or a Catamaran I am not that interested

[ortegakid]

As Brent said, it can easily be done, started skiffing when I was 54,now have AC, International Canoe with kite. So freakin much fun, 'spose someday will have to give foiling mothy a go again, but for now am most pleased.

[southseasailor]

As Brent said, it can easily be done, started skiffing when I was 54,now have AC, International Canoe with kite. So freakin much fun, 'spose someday will have to give foiling mothy a go again, but for now am most pleased.

Bet the I canoe is quite a lot of fun. I almost bought a foiling RS 600 but decided not to as the kelp thats lines the shores where I live would hve made life very difficult. There are one or two areas that are kelp free, but in a blow and far from these areas then landing anywhere would have been very risky.

I got into Kitesurfing, got 11 months under my belt now and love every minute of it:)

54yrs old and got into the Skiffs? thats pretty darn good. I found the RS700 would make me work a lot, but once you nail the technique it gets easier...just time on the water isnt it.

[ortegakid]

Kitesurfing next on the list, have all the kit, but been hesitant to try as I know what will happen; I'll be addicted and not want to sail my toys!
And yes, the MX-ray I had for years was great for skiff learning, 29'erX the most fun,AC the smoothest.

[southseasailor]

Yes, the kiting does get in the way of my RS700 and Hobie 16 though the beauty is that the kite gear is so easy to stick in a car and go try some new spots to ride.

I keep my gear with me at work, home is 36 miles away on a rough stone road...got accomodation at work so tend to stay there all week through. About 5 mins drive to the nearby dock there is a pond thats about knee deep with a nice muddy bottom, which is quite firm. Its several acres in size. Bit muddy but theres this clear pool near where I park...I douse the wetsuit etc down in there when I finish. Its an ideal setup, I get to work late shifts so have all morning to kite

But yeah....I have had days there in town, looking at the harbour and agonising about what to take out...Skiff or Kite? both are fun, both take about the same time to set up. I have had days where I have done a couple of hours on both though:) Lifes too short to wonder what kiting would be like...

[ortegakid]

Thx SSS, deff plan on making use of gear this year, want to do before I turn 60, have flown the kite and practice kites, and use the board behind ski boat so know will go, just like to try with someone who knows the ropes.

[southseasailor]

I taught myself, would have used instruction though if there was one around there were one or two lads who had dabbled in kiting but they never turned up.

The hardest bit was the waterstart, spent hours and hours sussing this out...then one day it all came together. I found that once up and riding I learnt very quickly where to place the kite in the zone. The Beauty of kites is the variation, fly higher/sheet out a bit to go slow etc. When you see a gust coming through you got a second or so to react and adjust the kite. Your sailing experience will be handy, lifts and headers etc.

Theres nothing quite like it, looking upwind and seeing the wave tops all ruffled up in a fresh wind..the water making some interesting colours in a setting sun, dolphins coming over to play and going right under the board...noses peeking out from under the front of it.

Glad I learnt!

Heres a clip, that session was 4 hrs long and had two dolphins there all the time

http://www.youtube.c...eature=youtu.be

[boomer]

AFAIC as long as your in shape, your never to old.

[ortegakid]

Dat's freakin awesom SSS!, you are so lucky! When we had our big boat they used to come out and rub thier backs on the bow while we sailed, seemed to like it when we went 7 knots or so!

[southseasailor]

Yes, they are friendly little fellers. Was out one time when the wind wasnt that good, could just get riding then fall back in the water...had 6 of these dolphins all around me...inches away they were, when a small wave came through they would all surf past me:)

On the 4 hr session of that video I headed out to deep water, tide had dropped a lot..quite surreal just laying back in the deep having a break..when 'puff' they would surface right next to me we get sealions too, they are curious about the kite mostly and wont bother or bite me.

[BalticBandit]

SSS I'm so jealous...

[JulianB]

I know I don't count but Im still sailing both 29er and 49ers at 55.
Both 2 up and one up.
Both boats are particularly sweet one up, 49er in 9 knts one up is in another world.
And the comment before re sailing with your son, totally concur!

JB

[southseasailor]

I know I don't count but Im still sailing both 29er and 49ers at 55.
Both 2 up and one up.
Both boats are particularly sweet one up, 49er in 9 knts one up is in another world.
And the comment before re sailing with your son, totally concur!

JB

You are single handing a 49er? I have never sailed one, but to do so solo? thats quite something. Wonder if I could get away with soloeing an RS800? always wanted one of those;)

[southseasailor]

SSS I'm so jealous...

LOL! yeah...I am one lucky bastard! got loads of places to kite, no one to bother me...no rules etc like some areas of the UK. Wish someone could invent a teleporter machine so you could zap through with your Musto for a few hours sailing down here

[boomer]

Don't sail a 29er or a 49er, but still windsurfing at 59....in less then three months I'll be 60.

My main windsurfing spot is at Kline Spit at Dungeness,

Gonna have to get one of those Go-Pros like SSS.

[southseasailor]

The camera I used in the video is an Oregon Scientific ATC9K...its a good bit of kit, its waterproof to 20mtrs without any fancy extra case like the GoPro has. Its got a built it Screen..no 'add on' like the GoPro. The only thing I would like extra? to be able to change the lens angle to get a wider view, thats my only critisizm.

I take the camera out most times I kite, got some sailing footage too..but our internet is expensive so uploading is next to impossible for better HD resolution...

[boomer]

They charge you extra for uploading HD ?

I'm strongly considering the Go-Pro because of the wide angle. Figure I could mount it on a gimble on my boats, and on my helmet windsurfing or climbing.

[southseasailor]

No, its just the net here where I live is so slow...takes something like 2hrs or more to upload 5mins of high res HD, so I had to compromise and lower the res settings on the camera. For sessions on the kite that I want to keep I record in high res, on a big screen TV the results are truly great very crisp and vivid.

[boomer]

Cool! Christmas is around the corner, probably buying one after Christmas to right after the New Year when deals can be had.

[southseasailor]

Handy thing to have with these cameras, especially helmet mounted, is a small strip of s steel..you might notice this in my video clip on my left wrist. I use this to see the LED status lights on the camera. Had a few times in the past where I thought I was recording and wasnt..and vice versa!

Technology these day is just incredible, my camera takes micro SD cards..8GB as well. This is good for an hour or so of high res. In fact the ATC9K can take an internal GPS unit, this is an optional extra.

[boomer]

Thanks for the heads up!

BTW...Dan known as Great White here on SA also made a gimble mount out of easy to get parts at home,for use on his J-35....

[JulianB]

I know I don't count but Im still sailing both 29er and 49ers at 55.
Both 2 up and one up.
Both boats are particularly sweet one up, 49er in 9 knts one up is in another world.
And the comment before re sailing with your son, totally concur!

JB

You are single handing a 49er? I have never sailed one, but to do so solo? thats quite something. Wonder if I could get away with soloeing an RS800? always wanted one of those;)

Something special and "regal" about sailing a 49er one up, just has to be done.
So yes still doing it, have been for 20 years.
Also agree with the Oregon Scientific system, idiot proof for a idiot like me.

JB

[southseasailor]

I know I don't count but Im still sailing both 29er and 49ers at 55.
Both 2 up and one up.
Both boats are particularly sweet one up, 49er in 9 knts one up is in another world.
And the comment before re sailing with your son, totally concur!

JB

You are single handing a 49er? I have never sailed one, but to do so solo? thats quite something. Wonder if I could get away with soloeing an RS800? always wanted one of those;)

Something special and "regal" about sailing a 49er one up, just has to be done.
So yes still doing it, have been for 20 years.
Also agree with the Oregon Scientific system, idiot proof for a idiot like me.

JB

Tell me more...like what sorts of winds can you get away with while on the 49er? I still love the idea of an RS800, having crew would be ideal but if I could still solo it..might need wider racks? I dunno, but I like hearing about unconventional stuff like this. I once got talking to a guy who was visiting where I live (Falkland Islands) who was keen to solo a Laser SB3, which we know as a keelboat of course..but ideally you need at least two to three crew. I dont know if he ever did it or not.

Mind you I solo my Hobie 16 Cat, though dont always take the jib with me if its looking a bit fresh out there

[JulianB]

49er, used to go sailing quite regularly with Warwick so he was one up in his boat, I was one up in mine, we where good to 9knts, then he had to get me to help him up if he capsized. He is 70kgs wringing wet, I'm 90+. I was good up to 12 knts.

Up wind, boat just glides, no hull speed bump, it just accelerates up to 10-12 knts effortlessly and hangs in there, downwind you not going much faster, normally tie the mainsheet off, just play the spin and steer, but getting "mapped" as in having to steer off as even the slightest gust hits and feeling the boat wind up another few knots is certainly not for the faint hearted.

Actually doing it, its no big deal really, other than its a real work out, you can only sustain it for a hour, maybe.

We had a bunch of dad's that wanted to do a one up race at the 29er worlds, Kids vetoed it, pity, there was quite a push from the Scandinavians.

Back in the late 80, early 90's we also one up 18teen's, did it every year, in Geneva, Switzerland, but we where young and stupid then.
Rule was you had to set the spinnaker, 2 laps, capsize and your done.
Only Nico got one up once at his feather weight!

Can remember capsizing, but I probably did.

JB

[cantp1]

Something special and "regal" about sailing a 49er one up, just has to be done.
So yes still doing it, have been for 20 years.
Also agree with the Oregon Scientific system, idiot proof for a idiot like me.

JB

Tell me more...like what sorts of winds can you get away with while on the 49er? I still love the idea of an RS800, having crew would be ideal but if I could still solo it..might need wider racks? I dunno, but I like hearing about unconventional stuff like this. I once got talking to a guy who was visiting where I live (Falkland Islands) who was keen to solo a Laser SB3, which we know as a keelboat of course..but ideally you need at least two to three crew. I dont know if he ever did it or not.

Mind you I solo my Hobie 16 Cat, though dont always take the jib with me if its looking a bit fresh out there

Although I wasn't there at the time, there's a legend about how the 49er got into the Olympics. People said the boat couldn't be sailed. Then JB went out in a building Ora and single handed about, even with kite up in up to 15 kts, proving that if he can sail it, anyone can! I'm sure he's told the story somewhere here on SA...

[couchsurfer]

...at one point,,Julian recommended a few k of sandbag near the CBtrunk for s'handing 29ers.....
............I'm wondering if that's still recommended??


...didn't someone actually make a finn-keel??? ...I remember something on these pages

[JimC]

there's a legend about how the 49er got into the Olympics.

Not a legend: was in all the press releases.

http://web.archive.o...ridaynight.html

[couchsurfer]

there's a legend about how the 49er got into the Olympics.

Not a legend: was in all the press releases.

http://web.archive.o...ridaynight.html

....not a secret,,,but -definitely- a legend!!!

[Fang-it]

I assume that the Julian B posting might be the designer of said `9er skiffs?

[Reht]

I assume that the Julian B posting might be the designer of said `9er skiffs?

I believe your assumption would be correct. Every once in a while he comes around and dispenses knowledge or experience to us. What he says is definitely worth listening to.

[cantp1]

I assume that the Julian B posting might be the designer of said `9er skiffs?

I believe your assumption would be correct. Every once in a while he comes around and dispenses knowledge or experience to us. What he says is definitely worth listening to.

+1

[nothing special]

I'm 47, have bad laser knees, 6 foot 5 and weigh 200lbs, and started on a 49er last season with little to no trapeze experience, straight from a laser and a 10 year hiatus from sailing. Needless to say I spend a lot of time in the water :-) I take my 11-year-old son out in light air, just enough to get him out on the trap and for us to be able to fly the kite (I do most of the work at the moment, he's not strong enough for the kite), you should see the look on his face when we sail past his mates in their optis. I can't get enough of the boat and only wish the sailing season wasn't so short where I live, it's all about boat time. I also have trouble finding a crew for wind over 10 knots, they need to be fast, experienced and willing to get wet, it can be a punishing and intimidating boat, the penalty for any mistake is almost always the same, a capsize, but once you get a taste of how exhilarating it is to sail you get hooked, pun intended.

cheers all

[fastyacht]

I'm 47, have bad laser knees, 6 foot 5 and weigh 200lbs, and started on a 49er last season with little to no trapeze experience, straight from a laser and a 10 year hiatus from sailing. Needless to say I spend a lot of time in the water :-) I take my 11-year-old son out in light air, just enough to get him out on the trap and for us to be able to fly the kite (I do most of the work at the moment, he's not strong enough for the kite), you should see the look on his face when we sail past his mates in their optis. I can't get enough of the boat and only wish the sailing season wasn't so short where I live, it's all about boat time. I also have trouble finding a crew for wind over 10 knots, they need to be fast, experienced and willing to get wet, it can be a punishing and intimidating boat, the penalty for any mistake is almost always the same, a capsize, but once you get a taste of how exhilarating it is to sail you get hooked, pun intended.

cheers all

Ironically your short sailing season seems not to be a hindrance. At HPDO this year the majority of not only the 49ers, but the fireballs as well, came from up north. You'd think with a gazillion people living in the megalopolis down here, we might have a vibrant dinghy racing culture but nope, not to be :-(

[JulianB]

Sorry guys, been all over the place.

A person with some age allowance (not that old but older and "wiser" than me) single handed his 29er a lot, regularly in Barcelona. he had a shipwright craft 2 bits of lead ingot and bolt them through the bottom of the centerboard, Its way strong enough, think it was as little as 10 kgs. Completely changed the "radius of gyration" and slowed the rate of change below a critical level so he could handle it. Boat still went pretty well and a few months latter took the lead off and sailed "nude". Not sure he sails much these days, but he certainly waxed lyrical about one up 29ers for years.

Even as recently as in Ireland at the ISAF conference, had people asking me about single handing 29ers, maybe we should re instigate a one up world championships! With over 200 boat son the line, I am sure we could find a few spare boats to do one race.

But there are plenty of good single handed boats with spinnaker. And then there is the IC, only sailed IC's twice, once in UK, it was a test sail of Uffa Fox's boat in the canals around Manchester. The other time was in Ottawa with Steve Clark. Think he wanted to show me how good he was and how bad I was, which he did!

And I have never sailed a musto skiff, cant see why it would be all that different, Moths are spectacular, but there is something special about guiding downwind with a kite drawing well in -5 knts doing 6-8 knts. It just a different sensor over load. As I mentioned before "regal". Almost 40 years ago, I had a similar "regal" experience in a FD.

Think the glint in peoples eyes is about the spinnaker and the downwind ride, and in light winds the glide!

Time have changed or maybe my perception has, I have moved on, and other have not. Not sure if I am better or worse for it.

Yes I am the JulianB, design of a few 9er classes, been very fortunate. And hopefully, the best, hopefully is yet to come.

Re Garda and the selection process, had a lot of fun, owe a huge debit of gratitude to the team, 3 girls stood out, Mum for her fortitude, Libby McKee for her planning brilliance and Abby Parkes for being able to out crew the boys 10 time out of 10.

As for legend status, if I may quote my dad, "everyone is a hero if they are put in a position where they have to be". (He was talking about getting a DFC in WW2)

I had a particular set of circumstances, and pulled it off, stupidly well, and had a great time doing it. Wild ride, not quite as wild as the ride few years before that in Ella Bache or the ride down SYD harbour when we broke the course record.

But getting off topic, Garda/49ers, yep sailed one up, in a making Ora, probably a very stupid thing to do as it could have gone so wrong, but it did not and luck favours the bold!
Always has, always will!

JB

[couchsurfer]

...nice one JB

...some years back,,you had mentioned the idea of adding a bit of sandbag weight in the 29er for singlehanding,,saying it 'puts it on it's lines'.....is this stilll done?

[ortegakid]

I have a keel bulb I built for my 29erX, if anyone wants it, it weighs 50lbs so shipping is expensive, but... never got around to trying as I found IC/AC, or they found me.

[JulianB]

Re sand bagging 29ers, as I am tad under 100kgs and design crew weight is 130-140 kgs, then I put the boat mostly on its lines so no need for me to do it.

Not sure its worth the hassle for a lighter and probably more agile crew, just go have some fun.

Make sure you put a wire on, just hang it of the same bolt the shrouds are on.

What most people forget is Trapeze wires reduce loads on a mast, not increase.

JB

[mustang__1]

Julian, do you mean to attach the traps to the shroud bolt? bit unclear on that sentence. if, so, why?

In any case, sailing 1up at 125lbs was an absolute blast. upwind in over 13kts could be moderately troublesome, but once you get down maneuvers its a truly rewarding experience. i certainly couldnt have done anything without being on the wire in anything more than about 6kts...

[fastyacht]

Make sure you put a wire on, just hang it of the same bolt the shrouds are on.

What most people forget is Trapeze wires reduce loads on a mast, not increase.

JB

My quick-thinking crew saved my 505 rig that way on a blowy run, years ago. Shroud popped and he instantly grabbed the trap and saved the day!

[JulianB]

Actually I was thinking 59er, stupid me, yes, on a 29er, just hang them both of the trap lug!

JB

[nothing special]

A bit off topic but I grew up spending my summers at our cottage which is next door to a sailing club and one weekend they had a guest speaker, FrankB, had a lot of great things to say, ran in to him later at a Kitsilano Open in Vancouver, I used to follow the laser circuit back then. I was in my teens, good memories. Going to have give a shot at single handling the 49er this summer while my joints last, I'm a sucker for punishment, thanks for the inspiration!

[SkateSailingAustralia]

If you have seen a skate sail especially in a breeze you would know its hard work. We have two blokes still sailing in their late 60's. So 40 odd isnt too old for any skiff. Especially one you can nap on.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=H6-FEyLgx_k

[ortegakid]

Dat's freakin awesome! Looks like our AC but for two! And I'll be 59 this year, so it's never too late!

[JulianB]

Skates are amazing boats, the boat I sailed was #876 (even I can remember that number) 2 x 14ft planks. Awesome is a under-statment!

JB

[Reht]

2 x 14ft planks

The righting-moment on that must about the same as a 49er, but on a much more slender hull. Looks like a blast!

[JulianB]

Righting moment on a Skate would be 12ft x 176 x 2 = 4224 ft/lbs (or 608 m/kgs)
RM on a 49er would be 8ft x 181 x 2 = 2904 ft/lbs or (2 x 2.4 x 165 = 396 m/kgs)

Skates are wild machines, huge power, almost double a 49er, tiny sails, they where quick, even when I was 17-18.
Only as someone said, these days skipper feet need to be on the gunwhale. When I sailed them your arse was at the end of a 14ft plank, and you wrapped your legs around the plank and hicked. From memory there where foot holes in the plank, so you could get in and out.
Tacking was a experience, all that power come to zero as you go through having to move a plank best part of 10 ft while running across and keeping the whole thing under control.
But hull was a straight isoclinal flat Vee, tiny foils also, you where going so quick.
When I sailed them we went straight past 18ft skiffs, in a race called the CHS regatta, up in Belmont.

Ahh to be young and stupid again!

JB

[Reht]

I guess that second 14' plank helps that righting moment, but even then, damn. Wonder why these never got adopted anywhere else in the world...

[Jethrow]

Cause only Aussies are tough enough to sail them?

[Reht]

Or there aren't enough people crazy enough to sail those outside that corner of the world. I hear the sun fries the part of the brain that is responsible for fear.

[skiffsailor_aus]

Fang-it I don't think you are ever too old. Sail what you want, sail fast & have fun. It's great that you can sail the 29er with your kid - when I have kids hopefully they will like sailing as much as I do and I'd definitely like to sail with them in whatever class they choose.

Oh, and Fang-it, for anyone who says you are too old:

Age and treachery will always prosper over youth and ability.