Jump to content


Catholic Country and Hospital refuse to save Mother

Fetus done for also.....

  • Please log in to reply
108 replies to this topic

#1 craigiri

craigiri

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,340 posts
  • Location:Home of US Sailing
  • Interests:Sailing, Innovation, Web Development, Writing, etc.

Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:34 PM

This is realistically what the nutters here want to happen.....

http://blogs.voanews.com/breaking-news/2012/11/14/ireland-probes-death-of-woman-denied-abortion/

"The family of the 31-year-old Halappanavar says she was 17 weeks pregnant when she suffered severe pain as a result of a miscarriage. Her husband says the hospital refused to give her an abortion, saying Ireland was a Catholic country and as long as there was a fetal heartbeat, there was nothing they could do."

#2 Clove Hitch

Clove Hitch

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,945 posts
  • Location:around and about
  • Interests:Garnacha. Gunk-holing.

Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:47 PM

This is realistically what the nutters here want to happen.....

http://blogs.voanews...enied-abortion/

"The family of the 31-year-old Halappanavar says she was 17 weeks pregnant when she suffered severe pain as a result of a miscarriage. Her husband says the hospital refused to give her an abortion, saying Ireland was a Catholic country and as long as there was a fetal heartbeat, there was nothing they could do."


There is an abortion ferry that runs across the Irish Sea to England.

#3 Sol Rosenberg

Sol Rosenberg

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 51,046 posts
  • Location:Earth

Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:57 PM

Life. What a wonderful choice.

#4 Saorsa

Saorsa

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,816 posts

Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:57 PM


This is realistically what the nutters here want to happen.....

http://blogs.voanews...enied-abortion/

"The family of the 31-year-old Halappanavar says she was 17 weeks pregnant when she suffered severe pain as a result of a miscarriage. Her husband says the hospital refused to give her an abortion, saying Ireland was a Catholic country and as long as there was a fetal heartbeat, there was nothing they could do."


There is an abortion ferry that runs across the Irish Sea to England.


The middle of a miscarriage is a bad time to have to stand in line for a ticket.

#5 WarBird

WarBird

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,090 posts
  • Location:lake michigan

Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:02 PM

Story long on sensationalism , little short on medical specifics. Halappanavar and wife didn't know Ireland is a Catholic country??? The whole story is a lot more than a sensational sound bite.

#6 No.6

No.6

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,042 posts
  • Location:Portmeirion
  • Interests:Danger

Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:03 PM

IIRC you get to cut the queue.

#7 craigiri

craigiri

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,340 posts
  • Location:Home of US Sailing
  • Interests:Sailing, Innovation, Web Development, Writing, etc.

Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:45 PM

Story long on sensationalism , little short on medical specifics. Halappanavar and wife didn't know Ireland is a Catholic country??? The whole story is a lot more than a sensational sound bite.


Not at all. The courts in Ireland have ruled that the life of the mother is an exception, but this illustrates how you cannot allow hospitals and other places of public accommodation to make such decisions....

Glad to have you confirm that you nutters want it to be like this, though. Thanks!

#8 Regatta Dog

Regatta Dog

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,155 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:21 AM

This is realistically what the nutters here want to happen.....

http://blogs.voanews...enied-abortion/

"The family of the 31-year-old Halappanavar says she was 17 weeks pregnant when she suffered severe pain as a result of a miscarriage. Her husband says the hospital refused to give her an abortion, saying Ireland was a Catholic country and as long as there was a fetal heartbeat, there was nothing they could do."


No. It isn't.

Who is it that wants women to die?

#9 Regatta Dog

Regatta Dog

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,155 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:22 AM


Story long on sensationalism , little short on medical specifics. Halappanavar and wife didn't know Ireland is a Catholic country??? The whole story is a lot more than a sensational sound bite.


Not at all. The courts in Ireland have ruled that the life of the mother is an exception, but this illustrates how you cannot allow hospitals and other places of public accommodation to make such decisions....

Glad to have you confirm that you nutters want it to be like this, though. Thanks!


Are you suggesting we pass laws that force Catholic hospitals to perform abortions?

#10 kent_island_sailor

kent_island_sailor

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,239 posts
  • Location:Kent Island!

Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:47 AM

Well if they let MY wife die slowly so their priest would be happy THEY would be getting an overdue retroactive abortion from Mr Shot and Mr Gun ;)

#11 MoeAlfa

MoeAlfa

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,322 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:56 AM

Story long on sensationalism , little short on medical specifics. Halappanavar and wife didn't know Ireland is a Catholic country??? The whole story is a lot more than a sensational sound bite.

Have to agree. There are some critical facts missing here.

#12 WarBird

WarBird

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,090 posts
  • Location:lake michigan

Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:14 AM


Story long on sensationalism , little short on medical specifics. Halappanavar and wife didn't know Ireland is a Catholic country??? The whole story is a lot more than a sensational sound bite.

Have to agree. There are some critical facts missing here.

I read in the cite that death occured 3 days after the preborn baby died, that would seem to a medical idiot like myself that there was a failure of care or an underlying condition but we get only a sensational headline. I make a comment on that sensationalism and I get labeled a nutter?

#13 MoeAlfa

MoeAlfa

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,322 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:24 AM



Story long on sensationalism , little short on medical specifics. Halappanavar and wife didn't know Ireland is a Catholic country??? The whole story is a lot more than a sensational sound bite.

Have to agree. There are some critical facts missing here.

I read in the cite that death occured 3 days after the preborn baby died, that would seem to a medical idiot like myself that there was a failure of care or an underlying condition but we get only a sensational headline. I make a comment on that sensationalism and I get labeled a nutter?

I didn't say you weren't nuts! :)

#14 craigiri

craigiri

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,340 posts
  • Location:Home of US Sailing
  • Interests:Sailing, Innovation, Web Development, Writing, etc.

Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:36 AM

Are you suggesting we pass laws that force Catholic hospitals to perform abortions?


Well, either 100% yes in situations like this....

OR

They should give up ANY claim to public money, reimbursement from the government, participation in publicly funded research, etc. and just call themselves "Mother Mary's Wish and a Prayer"

Would you suggest forcing religious airline pilots to believe in gravity?

#15 craigiri

craigiri

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,340 posts
  • Location:Home of US Sailing
  • Interests:Sailing, Innovation, Web Development, Writing, etc.

Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:40 AM

there was a failure of care


Well, yeah. There was. Luckily they are going to do a full investigation on it - but you did hear the statement from her hubby that said 100% she would be alive today if they would have performed the procedure?

Please read carefully. Her hubby worked for an American medical company and knew what was going on. They murdered this woman, IMHO...and my point is not that you are a nutter, but that the GOP - in MANY states and in many federal bills - are trying to make the same thing into law here.

Are you for or against that?

"Her husband, an engineer at Boston Scientific in Galway, had described how she asked several times over a three-day period that the pregnancy be terminated, given that she was in pain and was miscarrying. He said the request was refused by medical staff who said they could not do anything because there was still a foetal heartbeat. He said they were told that this was the law and that “this is a Catholic country”.

#16 Regatta Dog

Regatta Dog

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,155 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:47 AM


there was a failure of care


Well, yeah. There was. Luckily they are going to do a full investigation on it - but you did hear the statement from her hubby that said 100% she would be alive today if they would have performed the procedure?

Please read carefully. Her hubby worked for an American medical company and knew what was going on. They murdered this woman, IMHO...and my point is not that you are a nutter, but that the GOP - in MANY states and in many federal bills - are trying to make the same thing into law here.

Are you for or against that?


Where?

#17 squirel

squirel

    Anarchist

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,692 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:13 AM

crappyoo's argument makes perfect sense to me. There's Irish Catholics in Ireland and Irish Catholics in Massachusetts. This is so

SQUIRREL!!!!!!

#18 Spatial Ed

Spatial Ed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,581 posts
  • Location:The Dark Side of Kolob
  • Interests:Subhuman Mongrels in momjeans

Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:41 AM

This is a classic case of what happens when the religious right get control of the government.
This is a classic example of the bullet we dodged by rejecting the religious right in the last election.
This is a classic case where this woman will become a martyr for those who want to keep the religious right from controlling the government.
Couldn't have come at a more opportune time to drive the issue home to every woman in America to keep the GOP out of their vaginas.
But then again, I'm the type of guy who looks for a ray of sunshine in every thunderstorm.

#19 No.6

No.6

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,042 posts
  • Location:Portmeirion
  • Interests:Danger

Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:54 PM

Or is it a classic case of the failure of national health?
I guess in order to answer that you would have to ask, was it God's will that led to her death or the incompetence of her doctors?

#20 kent_island_sailor

kent_island_sailor

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,239 posts
  • Location:Kent Island!

Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:02 PM

NEITHER.
The doctors knew full well what to do. They either did not WANT to or were AFRAID of the legal complications of doing so.
As for God, YMMV on His meddling in this situation.


Or is it a classic case of the failure of national health?
I guess in order to answer that you would have to ask, was it God's will that led to her death or the incompetence of her doctors?



#21 Spatial Ed

Spatial Ed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,581 posts
  • Location:The Dark Side of Kolob
  • Interests:Subhuman Mongrels in momjeans

Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:03 PM

Or is it a classic case of the failure of national health?
I guess in order to answer that you would have to ask, was it God's will that led to her death or the incompetence of her doctors?

Looks like the doctors were following the laws passed by the religious right. They were blocked from legally extracting the unviable fetus until its heart quit beating. Of course, by that time, it had polluted the mothers body with infection.

This is what America will face if the republican abortion plank becomes law.

#22 Sol Rosenberg

Sol Rosenberg

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 51,046 posts
  • Location:Earth

Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:19 PM

Has Rush called her a slut?

#23 WarBird

WarBird

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,090 posts
  • Location:lake michigan

Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:54 PM

It doesn't strike anyone as "odd" that her husband is reporting from a teleconfrence in a province in India? It doesn't strike anyone os odd that she was admitted on the 21st, miscarried on the 23rd or so and died 5 ( yes 5) days later. That really looks like botched care of the septeicious (sp). How common is septeicious (sp) post miscarriage.

#24 Spatial Ed

Spatial Ed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,581 posts
  • Location:The Dark Side of Kolob
  • Interests:Subhuman Mongrels in momjeans

Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:58 PM

It doesn't strike anyone as "odd" that her husband is reporting from a teleconfrence in a province in India? It doesn't strike anyone os odd that she was admitted on the 21st, miscarried on the 23rd or so and died 5 ( yes 5) days later. That really looks like botched care of the septeicious (sp). How common is septeicious (sp) post miscarriage.

I think it is probably directly related to how long you leave the rotting fetus in utero after you identify it is no longer viable.

#25 craigiri

craigiri

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,340 posts
  • Location:Home of US Sailing
  • Interests:Sailing, Innovation, Web Development, Writing, etc.

Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:58 PM

It doesn't strike anyone as "odd" that her husband is reporting from a teleconfrence in a province in India? It doesn't strike anyone os odd that she was admitted on the 21st, miscarried on the 23rd or so and died 5 ( yes 5) days later. That really looks like botched care of the septeicious (sp). How common is septeicious (sp) post miscarriage.


Being as she was Indian and buried in India, it doesn't seem strange that they would want to leave the Fundamentalists......in Ireland. Does it seem so to you? Why?

"Praveen Halappanavar said he took his wife's remains back to India for a Hindu funeral and cremation Nov. 3."

#26 MoeAlfa

MoeAlfa

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,322 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:07 PM

The causation question in her death is one for the experts, but there's no doubt the woman was subjected to a terribly painful, tragic, pointless, unnecessary, multi-day, ordeal before her death. I don't know how many of you have witnessed a spontaneous abortion--my wife had two--but it's horrible and to make it last for a week is simply inhuman, in my opinion.

#27 squirel

squirel

    Anarchist

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,692 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:23 PM


Story long on sensationalism , little short on medical specifics. Halappanavar and wife didn't know Ireland is a Catholic country??? The whole story is a lot more than a sensational sound bite.

Have to agree. There are some critical facts missing here.


The Beebeecee says that

Ooooohhhh look ata thata acorn. It's just NUTZ!!!

#28 kmccabe

kmccabe

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,881 posts
  • Location:Belly of the Beast.

Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:54 PM


This is realistically what the nutters here want to happen.....

http://blogs.voanews...enied-abortion/

"The family of the 31-year-old Halappanavar says she was 17 weeks pregnant when she suffered severe pain as a result of a miscarriage. Her husband says the hospital refused to give her an abortion, saying Ireland was a Catholic country and as long as there was a fetal heartbeat, there was nothing they could do."


No. It isn't.

Who is it that wants women to die?


more anti-religious bigotry from the usual bigots. Why are you even responding to this idiot?

#29 Spatial Ed

Spatial Ed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,581 posts
  • Location:The Dark Side of Kolob
  • Interests:Subhuman Mongrels in momjeans

Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:56 PM

Pointing out an example of what happens when you mix politics and religion is not anti-religous bigotry.

#30 squirel

squirel

    Anarchist

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,692 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:10 PM

The causation question in her death is one for the experts, but there's no doubt the woman was subjected to a terribly painful, tragic, pointless, unnecessary, multi-day, ordeal before her death. I don't know how many of you have witnessed a spontaneous abortion--my wife had two--but it's horrible and to make it last for a week is simply inhuman, in my opinion.


And the transference of any element of this horrible Irish tragedy to the political questions in America surrounding abortion extension beyond what was defined by Roe v Wade 50 years ago and which has been the law of this land since is equally inhuman.

So inhuman as to be squirelly - get it? Squirelly! NUTZ!!!

#31 Sol Rosenberg

Sol Rosenberg

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 51,046 posts
  • Location:Earth

Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:14 PM

I feel for her husband. What an awful thing to endure. Unfathomable.

#32 Spatial Ed

Spatial Ed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,581 posts
  • Location:The Dark Side of Kolob
  • Interests:Subhuman Mongrels in momjeans

Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:15 PM


The causation question in her death is one for the experts, but there's no doubt the woman was subjected to a terribly painful, tragic, pointless, unnecessary, multi-day, ordeal before her death. I don't know how many of you have witnessed a spontaneous abortion--my wife had two--but it's horrible and to make it last for a week is simply inhuman, in my opinion.


And the transference of any element of this horrible Irish tragedy to the political questions in America surrounding abortion extension beyond what was defined by Roe v Wade 50 years ago and which has been the law of this land since is equally inhuman.

So inhuman as to be squirelly - get it? Squirelly! NUTZ!!!

No it isn't Milo. Its a window into what the GOP wants America to emulate. For a refresher, the GOP wants to overturn Roe, ban abortions in all cases, no exceptions. Just like Ireland.

#33 d'ranger

d'ranger

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,216 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:25 PM

Fa®ther Righty Knows Best.

#34 tuk tuk joe

tuk tuk joe

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,734 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:34 PM

I only wish ohbummers mother would have had one...

#35 squirel

squirel

    Anarchist

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,692 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:38 PM

Fa®ther Righty Knows Best.


I'll bet you a bushel of acorns that this deplorable Irish incident (and a bunch of other reasons that only the International Order of Squirrels knows about)weakens the case for Ireland continuing with its present extreme restrictive abortion policy. It absolutely has no bearing on the debate in Amerika.

#36 craigiri

craigiri

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,340 posts
  • Location:Home of US Sailing
  • Interests:Sailing, Innovation, Web Development, Writing, etc.

Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:46 PM

And the transference of any element of this horrible Irish tragedy to the political questions in America surrounding abortion extension beyond what was defined by Roe v Wade 50 years ago and which has been the law of this land since is equally inhuman.

So inhuman as to be squirelly - get it? Squirelly! NUTZ!!!


Maybe you are missing the new fundamentalist branches of the catholic (and other) churches in this country, but you can be assured that we are not.....

There are millions of catholics and evangelicals in this country who would copy Irelands laws in ONE SECOND given the chance. In fact, I think all of the GOP Presidential candidates clearly expressed they would be happy if Roe went away....

For a squirrel to deny those most basic facts -would be NUTZ.

#37 TheFlash

TheFlash

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,172 posts
  • Location:San Francisco Bay
  • Interests:Rum

Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:48 PM

No it isn't Milo. Its a window into what the GOP wants America to emulate. For a refresher, the GOP wants to overturn Roe, ban abortions in all cases, no exceptions. Just like Ireland.


Come on Ed, you know the platform is just for the base, they don't actually expect to follow it.

#38 craigiri

craigiri

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,340 posts
  • Location:Home of US Sailing
  • Interests:Sailing, Innovation, Web Development, Writing, etc.

Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:54 PM

It should be noted that the Irish people are for the legalization of abortion.

That is yet another similarity to our situation - that being that "conservative" political figures are responsible for this law being still in practice, despite the fact that the populace have moved on...

#39 Nacradriver

Nacradriver

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,323 posts
  • Location:Ventucky, Kalifornica
  • Interests:Fast things

Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:13 PM

It should be noted that the Irish people are for the legalization of abortion.

That is yet another similarity to our situation - that being that "conservative" political figures are responsible for this law being still in practice, despite the fact that the populace have moved on...


If you don't mind me asking why should we care about Ireland and what their stance is on this?

#40 TheFlash

TheFlash

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,172 posts
  • Location:San Francisco Bay
  • Interests:Rum

Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:36 PM

as a cautionary tale maybe?

#41 craigiri

craigiri

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,340 posts
  • Location:Home of US Sailing
  • Interests:Sailing, Innovation, Web Development, Writing, etc.

Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:41 PM

If you don't mind me asking why should we care about Ireland and what their stance is on this?


Because it's exactly the policy that Ryan and Romney and the GOP have said they favor?
Does that make any sense? Have you ever heard of "modeling" or learning from others?

#42 No.6

No.6

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,042 posts
  • Location:Portmeirion
  • Interests:Danger

Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:47 PM

Because it's exactly the policy that Ryan and Romney and the GOP have said they favor?


I am glad you ended that sentence with a question mark.
Most people, including Romney and Ryan IIRC, have no issue with abortions when the mother's health is at risk. What the vast majority of people who oppose abortion do have a problem with is it being used as a form of contraception.

#43 pond sailor

pond sailor

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 378 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 08:04 PM

From another thread....

With a renewed and reinvigorated electorate, Gov. Kasich can expect to be haunted from today to Election Day in 2014 if he signs HB 298 or HB 125, the so-called Heartbeat Bill because it forces a woman to bear a child once a heartbeat is detected, into law. Republicans are already weak with women, and exacerbating that gap seems an unwise choice for a career politician like John Kasich

cite http://www.examiner.com/article/kasich-courts-trouble-by-signing-ohio-gop-bill-to-defund-planned-parenthood
Sounds a lot like the Irish law in debate here

#44 TheFlash

TheFlash

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,172 posts
  • Location:San Francisco Bay
  • Interests:Rum

Posted 15 November 2012 - 08:18 PM


Because it's exactly the policy that Ryan and Romney and the GOP have said they favor?


I am glad you ended that sentence with a question mark.
Most people, including Romney and Ryan IIRC, have no issue with abortions when the mother's health is at risk. What the vast majority of people who oppose abortion do have a problem with is it being used as a form of contraception.


That darn repub party platform is ignored, yet again… Ryan certainly is in the "no exceptions" camp.

#45 Saorsa

Saorsa

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,816 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 08:42 PM



Because it's exactly the policy that Ryan and Romney and the GOP have said they favor?


I am glad you ended that sentence with a question mark.
Most people, including Romney and Ryan IIRC, have no issue with abortions when the mother's health is at risk. What the vast majority of people who oppose abortion do have a problem with is it being used as a form of contraception.


That darn repub party platform is ignored, yet again… Ryan certainly is in the "no exceptions" camp.


Here is the Republican Party Platform. Wanna point out what you are talking about?

#46 craigiri

craigiri

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,340 posts
  • Location:Home of US Sailing
  • Interests:Sailing, Innovation, Web Development, Writing, etc.

Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:15 PM

Again we hear "prove it" - when your own leaders have made themselves very clear!

Firstly, a NUMBER of bills have already been brought forward by mainstream Republicans, including Ryan, which give the fetus FULL personhood and constitutional protections to life. That's pretty clear...as long as it has a heartbeat, just like Ireland.....

Secondly, the GOP has already passed legislation allowing hospitals, just like in Ireland, to not save the life of the mother.....
http://www.motherjon...-abortion-bills

Shout all you want. You own it if you vote for these "moderates" like Paul Ryan...to be one heartbeat away from the Presidency.

"The House passed the Protect Life Act in October 2011, with Ryan as one of its 145 cosponsors. The measure would allow hospitals to refuse to "participate in" or "provide referrals" for abortions. Current law states that any hospital that receives government funds is required to provide emergency care for anyone. If a hospital is affiliated with a religious institution that refuses to provide abortion care under any circumstance, they're legally required to transfer the patient to a hospital that will. But the measure Ryan cosponsored would remove that obligation, leading opponents to criticize the bill for letting women "die on the floor."

#47 squirel

squirel

    Anarchist

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,692 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:25 PM

I want you, you sanctimonius little prick to go into an abortion center, listen to a heartbeat, do the D&C, and then just throw the fetus in the trashcan with your own hands. Then come back and talk to us about heartbeats.

#48 WarBird

WarBird

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,090 posts
  • Location:lake michigan

Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:20 PM

This thread has become a real fukkin' circus. A poor girl goes into an Irish (single payer social health) hospital, miscarries in 3 days and the socialized health doctors take another 5 days to kill her. Where is the outrage?

#49 craigiri

craigiri

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,340 posts
  • Location:Home of US Sailing
  • Interests:Sailing, Innovation, Web Development, Writing, etc.

Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:23 PM

This thread has become a real fukkin' circus. A poor girl goes into an Irish (single payer social health) hospital, miscarries in 3 days and the socialized health doctors take another 5 days to kill her. Where is the outrage?


I assume it's past your pay grade to understand that who paid the bill has nothing to do with it - but I am certain that her working hubby was paying Irish taxes......

I'm glad you are so defensive about this - you can get some of that anger from losing WI out.....

#50 craigiri

craigiri

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,340 posts
  • Location:Home of US Sailing
  • Interests:Sailing, Innovation, Web Development, Writing, etc.

Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:25 PM

I 'm taking my sanctimonius little prick to go into my own hands. Then coming back and talk to us about heartbeats.


Well, based on your medical history, you should check first with your cardiologist.

After that, run your spell checker.

#51 TheFlash

TheFlash

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,172 posts
  • Location:San Francisco Bay
  • Interests:Rum

Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:34 PM




Because it's exactly the policy that Ryan and Romney and the GOP have said they favor?


I am glad you ended that sentence with a question mark.
Most people, including Romney and Ryan IIRC, have no issue with abortions when the mother's health is at risk. What the vast majority of people who oppose abortion do have a problem with is it being used as a form of contraception.


That darn repub party platform is ignored, yet again… Ryan certainly is in the "no exceptions" camp.


Here is the Republican Party Platform. Wanna point out what you are talking about?


Here's a start: "No healthcare professional or organization should ever be required to perform, provide for, withhold, or refer for a medical service against their conscience. This is especially true of the religious organizations which deliver a major portion of America’s healthcare, a service rooted in the charity of faith communities. "

and more

Faithful to the “self-evident” truths enshrined in the Declaration of Independence, we assert the sanctity of human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and endorse legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children. We oppose using public revenues to promote or perform abortion or fund organizations which perform or advocate it and will not fund or subsidize health care which includes abortion coverage. We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family values and the sanctity of innocent human life.

#52 WarBird

WarBird

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,090 posts
  • Location:lake michigan

Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:34 PM

All the lefties have made this an abortion issue entirely on the statement by the deceased 's husband's comments. The deceased didn't intend an abortion, she was 4 months along and obviosly medically astute. If termination was her intent it would have happened at 3-7 or so weeks. Does the husband, whose comments you lefties are taking as holy grail, know medicine? Know pregnancy? The releases "employed in the medical field" but don't say he could be in sanitation, MRI tech, instrument design or sales , or billing? You are reading way to much into his statements. I am in chemical research and development, does that make me a chemist? No one seems to be looking at the "time line", instead looking at politics (yes, PA). She miscarried on the 23rd or 24th and died on the 28th. With no disrespect, a corps (that is core, not corpse MR O(fuckin)bama)man could have had her stabilized and evac'd in that time frame!

Social Medicine killed that woman and the lefties don't realize that.

#53 TheFlash

TheFlash

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,172 posts
  • Location:San Francisco Bay
  • Interests:Rum

Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:36 PM

I want you, you sanctimonius little prick to go into an abortion center, listen to a heartbeat, do the D&C, and then just throw the fetus in the trashcan with your own hands. Then come back and talk to us about heartbeats.


first off, most terminations are not done in an "abortion center" - rather they are done in the OB/GYN Dr's office. Until you have to make a decision between the health of the mother and the unborn, damaged, "not compatible with life" child, I suggest you STFU.

#54 craigiri

craigiri

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,340 posts
  • Location:Home of US Sailing
  • Interests:Sailing, Innovation, Web Development, Writing, etc.

Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:58 PM

Social Medicine killed that woman and the lefties don't realize that.


Let us know when you read the story.
The women was in medicine herself (a dentist), the hubby an engineer with Boston Scientific (Makes amazing medical devices) and they clearly asked for the treatment many a time. It was denied due to law, religion, etc.

As I said, let us know when you do some reading. And calm down about those losses in WI - we've lost too many righties here already and it's starting to be no fun.

#55 Nacradriver

Nacradriver

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,323 posts
  • Location:Ventucky, Kalifornica
  • Interests:Fast things

Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:59 PM


If you don't mind me asking why should we care about Ireland and what their stance is on this?


Because it's exactly the policy that Ryan and Romney and the GOP have said they favor?
Does that make any sense? Have you ever heard of "modeling" or learning from others?

And....

It should be noted that the Irish people are for the legalization of abortion.

That is yet another similarity to our situation - that being that "conservative" political figures are responsible for this law being still in practice, despite the fact that the populace have moved on...


Oh! so we're now making policy on what happens in Ireland. Romney and Ryan are yesterdays news get over yourself...

#56 MoeAlfa

MoeAlfa

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,322 posts

Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:13 AM

The expert question here, which I certainly cannot answer, is whether intervening at any time before the fetus died would have reduced the risk of sepsis. If not, the failure to intervene only prolonged the poor woman's suffering. Having reviewed and testified in quite a few med negligence cases, that doesn't look like an easy question to me.

#57 Spatial Ed

Spatial Ed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,581 posts
  • Location:The Dark Side of Kolob
  • Interests:Subhuman Mongrels in momjeans

Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:26 AM

All the lefties have made this an abortion issue entirely on the statement by the deceased 's husband's comments. The deceased didn't intend an abortion, she was 4 months along and obviosly medically astute. If termination was her intent it would have happened at 3-7 or so weeks. Does the husband, whose comments you lefties are taking as holy grail, know medicine? Know pregnancy? The releases "employed in the medical field" but don't say he could be in sanitation, MRI tech, instrument design or sales , or billing? You are reading way to much into his statements. I am in chemical research and development, does that make me a chemist? No one seems to be looking at the "time line", instead looking at politics (yes, PA). She miscarried on the 23rd or 24th and died on the 28th. With no disrespect, a corps (that is core, not corpse MR O(fuckin)bama)man could have had her stabilized and evac'd in that time frame!

Social Medicine killed that woman and the lefties don't realize that.

This is a case of a woman who NEEDED an abortion, but the laws put in place by a theocratic political system, denied her a medical procedure. The timing is everything. Had she had the unviable fetus extracted when she started to spontaneously abort (miscarriage), it is entirely possible she would have avoided the deadly infection that resulted by the doctors waiting for the unviable fetus heartbeat to stop. She was forced to endure the pain and suffering unnecessarily while her body rejected the fetus and an infection took over.

This is what the GOP doesn't understand when they want to model our laws like those of Ireland. Their policies have tragic consequences.

#58 WarBird

WarBird

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,090 posts
  • Location:lake michigan

Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:29 AM



Social Medicine killed that woman and the lefties don't realize that.


Let us know when you read the story.
The women was in medicine herself (a dentist), the hubby an engineer with Boston Scientific (Makes amazing medical devices) and they clearly asked for the treatment many a time. It was denied due to law, religion, etc.

As I said, let us know when you do some reading. And calm down about those losses in WI - we've lost too many righties here already and it's starting to be no fun.

As I pointed out , being "in medicine" does, in the husband's case in no way denote "DEGREE" in anything. You obviously don't see the failure of the socialized medicine in this case.

The woman died 5 days later?????

#59 MoeAlfa

MoeAlfa

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,322 posts

Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:30 AM


All the lefties have made this an abortion issue entirely on the statement by the deceased 's husband's comments. The deceased didn't intend an abortion, she was 4 months along and obviosly medically astute. If termination was her intent it would have happened at 3-7 or so weeks. Does the husband, whose comments you lefties are taking as holy grail, know medicine? Know pregnancy? The releases "employed in the medical field" but don't say he could be in sanitation, MRI tech, instrument design or sales , or billing? You are reading way to much into his statements. I am in chemical research and development, does that make me a chemist? No one seems to be looking at the "time line", instead looking at politics (yes, PA). She miscarried on the 23rd or 24th and died on the 28th. With no disrespect, a corps (that is core, not corpse MR O(fuckin)bama)man could have had her stabilized and evac'd in that time frame!

Social Medicine killed that woman and the lefties don't realize that.

This is a case of a woman who NEEDED an abortion, but the laws put in place by a theocratic political system, denied her a medical procedure. The timing is everything. Had she had the unviable fetus extracted when she started to spontaneously abort (miscarriage), it is entirely possible she would have avoided the deadly infection that resulted by the doctors waiting for the unviable fetus heartbeat to stop. She was forced to endure the pain and suffering unnecessarily while her body rejected the fetus and an infection took over.

This is what the GOP doesn't understand when they want to model our laws like those of Ireland. Their policies have tragic consequences.

This would not be true if the D & C they performed after the fetal death caused the fatal infection, which happens from time to time, even in the USA, and is a plausible scenario, given what we've seen of the timeline. There is just too much hidden here to judge.

#60 Spatial Ed

Spatial Ed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,581 posts
  • Location:The Dark Side of Kolob
  • Interests:Subhuman Mongrels in momjeans

Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:32 AM

People die of infections every day. Trick is to avoid them. In this case, the doctors knew the cause of the infection but were barred from doing anything about it until after the fetus' heart quit beating.
Socialized medicine didn't kill her. The Catholics church's influence on Irelands laws did.

#61 kmccabe

kmccabe

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,881 posts
  • Location:Belly of the Beast.

Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:55 AM

Pointing out an example of what happens when you mix politics and religion is not anti-religous bigotry.


Oh looky here.

People die of infections every day. Trick is to avoid them. In this case, the doctors knew the cause of the infection but were barred from doing anything about it until after the fetus' heart quit beating.
Socialized medicine didn't kill her. The Catholics church's influence on Irelands laws did.


No really, go fuck yourself.

#62 Spatial Ed

Spatial Ed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,581 posts
  • Location:The Dark Side of Kolob
  • Interests:Subhuman Mongrels in momjeans

Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:10 AM

Mixing politics and religion usually leads to pain, suffering and death. And that is not religious bigotry.

#63 Nacradriver

Nacradriver

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,323 posts
  • Location:Ventucky, Kalifornica
  • Interests:Fast things

Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:10 AM

This is a case of a woman who NEEDED an abortion, but the laws put in place by a theocratic political system, denied her a medical procedure.


In Ireland, it actually is legal to induce a birth when a mother’s life is at risk.

The decision to induce labour early would be fully in compliance with the law and the current guidelines set out for doctors by the Irish Medical Council. Those guidelines allow interventions to treat women where necessary, even if that treatment indirectly results in the death to the baby. If they aren't being followed, laws about abortion won't change that. The issue then becomes about medical protocols being followed in hospitals and not about the absence of legal abortion in Ireland.



#64 Spatial Ed

Spatial Ed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,581 posts
  • Location:The Dark Side of Kolob
  • Interests:Subhuman Mongrels in momjeans

Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:26 AM


This is a case of a woman who NEEDED an abortion, but the laws put in place by a theocratic political system, denied her a medical procedure.


In Ireland, it actually is legal to induce a birth when a mother’s life is at risk.

The decision to induce labour early would be fully in compliance with the law and the current guidelines set out for doctors by the Irish Medical Council. Those guidelines allow interventions to treat women where necessary, even if that treatment indirectly results in the death to the baby. If they aren't being followed, laws about abortion won't change that. The issue then becomes about medical protocols being followed in hospitals and not about the absence of legal abortion in Ireland.

Those poor people should have notified the doctors of that statement when they told them they were barred by law to abort the fetus as long as it had a heartbeat.
The GOP should also probably include that in their platform plank to avoid the same situation.

#65 WarBird

WarBird

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,090 posts
  • Location:lake michigan

Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:30 AM



All the lefties have made this an abortion issue entirely on the statement by the deceased 's husband's comments. The deceased didn't intend an abortion, she was 4 months along and obviosly medically astute. If termination was her intent it would have happened at 3-7 or so weeks. Does the husband, whose comments you lefties are taking as holy grail, know medicine? Know pregnancy? The releases "employed in the medical field" but don't say he could be in sanitation, MRI tech, instrument design or sales , or billing? You are reading way to much into his statements. I am in chemical research and development, does that make me a chemist? No one seems to be looking at the "time line", instead looking at politics (yes, PA). She miscarried on the 23rd or 24th and died on the 28th. With no disrespect, a corps (that is core, not corpse MR O(fuckin)bama)man could have had her stabilized and evac'd in that time frame!

Social Medicine killed that woman and the lefties don't realize that.

This is a case of a woman who NEEDED an abortion, but the laws put in place by a theocratic political system, denied her a medical procedure. The timing is everything. Had she had the unviable fetus extracted when she started to spontaneously abort (miscarriage), it is entirely possible she would have avoided the deadly infection that resulted by the doctors waiting for the unviable fetus heartbeat to stop. She was forced to endure the pain and suffering unnecessarily while her body rejected the fetus and an infection took over.

This is what the GOP doesn't understand when they want to model our laws like those of Ireland. Their policies have tragic consequences.

This would not be true if the D & C they performed after the fetal death caused the fatal infection, which happens from time to time, even in the USA, and is a plausible scenario, given what we've seen of the timeline. There is just too much hidden here to judge.

Pretty sure "MoeAlfa" evidenced from other threads is a med pro. I am a pure observer of "what is written" in this thread and the cite leading this thread and some other online info in this case. MoeAlfa and I disagree on a lot of stuff but when idiot "I" and MoeAlfa both point out that the facts are "NOT" all "in" on this case, left and right really should reconsider the political "finger pointing".

#66 kmccabe

kmccabe

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,881 posts
  • Location:Belly of the Beast.

Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:31 AM

Mixing politics and religion usually leads to pain, suffering and death. And that is not religious bigotry.


You're a cultural dinosaur. See my recommendation above.

#67 Spatial Ed

Spatial Ed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,581 posts
  • Location:The Dark Side of Kolob
  • Interests:Subhuman Mongrels in momjeans

Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:32 AM


Mixing politics and religion usually leads to pain, suffering and death. And that is not religious bigotry.


You're a cultural dinosaur. See my recommendation above.

Perhaps you could give us an example where mixing the two resulted in the opposite?

#68 kmccabe

kmccabe

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,881 posts
  • Location:Belly of the Beast.

Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:36 AM



Mixing politics and religion usually leads to pain, suffering and death. And that is not religious bigotry.


You're a cultural dinosaur. See my recommendation above.

Perhaps you could give us an example where mixing the two resulted in the opposite?


again see my recommendation above. Truly - act on it.

#69 Nacradriver

Nacradriver

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,323 posts
  • Location:Ventucky, Kalifornica
  • Interests:Fast things

Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:37 AM



This is a case of a woman who NEEDED an abortion, but the laws put in place by a theocratic political system, denied her a medical procedure.


In Ireland, it actually is legal to induce a birth when a mother’s life is at risk.

The decision to induce labour early would be fully in compliance with the law and the current guidelines set out for doctors by the Irish Medical Council. Those guidelines allow interventions to treat women where necessary, even if that treatment indirectly results in the death to the baby. If they aren't being followed, laws about abortion won't change that. The issue then becomes about medical protocols being followed in hospitals and not about the absence of legal abortion in Ireland.

Those poor people should have notified the doctors of that statement when they told them they were barred by law to abort the fetus as long as it had a heartbeat.
The GOP should also probably include that in their platform plank to avoid the same situation.


Though this siutation being tragic as it is.. again, how does a policy in Ireland relate to the laws in the US. Roe v. Wade isn't going anywhere as much as the far right wingbats schrill to the high heavens that is should.

#70 puffyjman

puffyjman

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,581 posts
  • Location:panhandle fla
  • Interests:j-boats, growing jalapenos and other horticultural experiments, chocolate labs,(R.I.P. Dexter my friend) bitching and complaining

Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:39 AM



Mixing politics and religion usually leads to pain, suffering and death. And that is not religious bigotry.


You're a cultural dinosaur. See my recommendation above.

Perhaps you could give us an example where mixing the two resulted in the opposite?


The United States of America is one nation under God with liberty and justice for all.
Enough said,

#71 squirel

squirel

    Anarchist

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,692 posts

Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:45 AM

Mixing politics and religion usually leads to pain, suffering and death. And that is not religious bigotry.


Abortions always lead to pain, suffering, and death. But, with enough liberal sophistry, you can pretend that a human being with a beating heart can be terminated at the will of the little parasite's host.

Ditto what kmmcabe said, then you could wait 12 weeks and have an abortion.

#72 Spatial Ed

Spatial Ed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,581 posts
  • Location:The Dark Side of Kolob
  • Interests:Subhuman Mongrels in momjeans

Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:00 AM




Mixing politics and religion usually leads to pain, suffering and death. And that is not religious bigotry.


You're a cultural dinosaur. See my recommendation above.

Perhaps you could give us an example where mixing the two resulted in the opposite?


The United States of America is one nation under God with liberty and justice for all.
Enough said,

In God We Trust hasn't kept us from the fiscal cliff.

#73 puffyjman

puffyjman

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,581 posts
  • Location:panhandle fla
  • Interests:j-boats, growing jalapenos and other horticultural experiments, chocolate labs,(R.I.P. Dexter my friend) bitching and complaining

Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:22 AM





Mixing politics and religion usually leads to pain, suffering and death. And that is not religious bigotry.


You're a cultural dinosaur. See my recommendation above.

Perhaps you could give us an example where mixing the two resulted in the opposite?


The United States of America is one nation under God with liberty and justice for all.
Enough said,

In God We Trust hasn't kept us from the fiscal cliff.


No, Obama has..... or has he?

#74 TheFlash

TheFlash

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,172 posts
  • Location:San Francisco Bay
  • Interests:Rum

Posted 16 November 2012 - 03:49 AM




Mixing politics and religion usually leads to pain, suffering and death. And that is not religious bigotry.


You're a cultural dinosaur. See my recommendation above.

Perhaps you could give us an example where mixing the two resulted in the opposite?


The United States of America is one nation under God with liberty and justice for all.
Enough said,


Except it wasn't "under god" until the commie scare. How come it took the commies for the religious right to get the "under god" put in?

#75 Spatial Ed

Spatial Ed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,581 posts
  • Location:The Dark Side of Kolob
  • Interests:Subhuman Mongrels in momjeans

Posted 16 November 2012 - 03:59 AM

The proper way to say the pledge of allegiance is not to run "One nation under God" together, but to pause "One nation.....Under God....with Liberty and Justice for all".
Say it a few times and it makes so much more sense.

This pause was due to the insertion of the praise "Under God" well after the original author wrote it and done so because of fear of the atheist commie threat we faced in the 1950s.

But most of the nation just runs it together incorrectly. It makes some feel like we are a nation based on God. Which it isn't.
See what you learn when you are a member of a good boy scout troop?

#76 WarBird

WarBird

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,090 posts
  • Location:lake michigan

Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:07 AM

The proper way to say the pledge of allegiance is not to run "One nation under God" together, but to pause "One nation.....Under God....with Liberty and Justice for all".
Say it a few times and it makes so much more sense.

This pause was due to the insertion of the praise "Under God" well after the original author wrote it and done so because of fear of the atheist commie threat we faced in the 1950s.

But most of the nation just runs it together incorrectly. It makes some feel like we are a nation based on God. Which it isn't.
See what you learn when you are a member of a good boy scout troop?

....one nation with liberty and justice for all....... But YOU chose who ... ALL... is?????? FUCK HEAD!!!!

#77 Spatial Ed

Spatial Ed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,581 posts
  • Location:The Dark Side of Kolob
  • Interests:Subhuman Mongrels in momjeans

Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:20 AM

What are you on about now?

#78 Saorsa

Saorsa

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,816 posts

Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:21 AM

The proper way to say the pledge of allegiance is not to run "One nation under God" together, but to pause "One nation.....Under God....with Liberty and Justice for all".
Say it a few times and it makes so much more sense.

This pause was due to the insertion of the praise "Under God" well after the original author wrote it and done so because of fear of the atheist commie threat we faced in the 1950s.

But most of the nation just runs it together incorrectly. It makes some feel like we are a nation based on God. Which it isn't.
See what you learn when you are a member of a good boy scout troop?


I just stay silent at under god. If someone tells me I didn't say it right I point out that I don't have to say it at all.

#79 Spatial Ed

Spatial Ed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,581 posts
  • Location:The Dark Side of Kolob
  • Interests:Subhuman Mongrels in momjeans

Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:22 AM

Me too.

#80 squirel

squirel

    Anarchist

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,692 posts

Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:24 AM

Except it wasn't "under god" until the commie scare. How come it took the commies for the religious right to get the "under god" put in?


Squirrels who forget where the oak trees are don't get any more NUTZ!!!

#81 learningj24

learningj24

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,839 posts

Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:32 AM




Mixing politics and religion usually leads to pain, suffering and death. And that is not religious bigotry.


You're a cultural dinosaur. See my recommendation above.

Perhaps you could give us an example where mixing the two resulted in the opposite?


The United States of America is one nation under God with liberty and justice for all.
Enough said,

Only "under God" since Eisenhower. Before that, just "one nation".

#82 learningj24

learningj24

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,839 posts

Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:34 AM


This is a case of a woman who NEEDED an abortion, but the laws put in place by a theocratic political system, denied her a medical procedure.


In Ireland, it actually is legal to induce a birth when a mother’s life is at risk.

The decision to induce labour early would be fully in compliance with the law and the current guidelines set out for doctors by the Irish Medical Council. Those guidelines allow interventions to treat women where necessary, even if that treatment indirectly results in the death to the baby. If they aren't being followed, laws about abortion won't change that. The issue then becomes about medical protocols being followed in hospitals and not about the absence of legal abortion in Ireland.


My understanding, from an NPR interview, is that while the procedure is legal under Irish law, the definitions of when the mother's life is at risk are vague and the doctors are subject to life imprisonment if they guess wrong.

#83 Regatta Dog

Regatta Dog

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,155 posts

Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:43 AM





Mixing politics and religion usually leads to pain, suffering and death. And that is not religious bigotry.


You're a cultural dinosaur. See my recommendation above.

Perhaps you could give us an example where mixing the two resulted in the opposite?


The United States of America is one nation under God with liberty and justice for all.
Enough said,


Except it wasn't "under god" until the commie scare. How come it took the commies for the religious right to get the "under god" put in?


Reacting to a 2002 court ruling that "under God" was unconstitutional, the Senate voted unanimously to condemn the court 99-0, the same exact number of votes against Obama's last budget request.

Bipartisanship is alive and well.

#84 Bent Sailor

Bent Sailor

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,854 posts
  • Location:Lake Macquarie
  • Interests:Sailing
    Software Development
    A Good Yarn with Mates

Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:56 AM

Reacting to a 2002 court ruling that "under God" was unconstitutional, the Senate voted unanimously to condemn the court 99-0, the same exact number of votes against Obama's last budget request.


Now, can anyone here can tell me just how much a Senate vote matters when determining if something they passed is unconstitutional? Anyone?

OK, anyone but Tom?

#85 Regatta Dog

Regatta Dog

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,155 posts

Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:03 AM

Reacting to a 2002 court ruling that "under God" was unconstitutional, the Senate voted unanimously to condemn the court 99-0, the same exact number of votes against Obama's last budget request.


Now, can anyone here can tell me just how much a Senate vote matters when determining if something they passed is unconstitutional? Anyone?

OK, anyone but Tom?


Simply posted to discredit your statement -- "How come it took the commies for the religious right to get the "under god" put in?"

The US Senate is 100% religious right?

Now - can anyone here tell me how a Senate vote matters when determining a woman's right to choose?

#86 No.6

No.6

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,042 posts
  • Location:Portmeirion
  • Interests:Danger

Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:07 PM

Ohhhh come now RD, it is all Bush's fault.

#87 craigiri

craigiri

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,340 posts
  • Location:Home of US Sailing
  • Interests:Sailing, Innovation, Web Development, Writing, etc.

Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:39 PM

Bush was not a fundamentalist. He would never have backed the nutz who figured out that women's bodies have a way of rejecting these things. Come to think of it, this woman's body also had a way of rejecting the "bad" baby. But the outcome does not meet modern standards of civilization, which is why we call the regressives.

#88 No.6

No.6

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,042 posts
  • Location:Portmeirion
  • Interests:Danger

Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:48 PM

You are truly an idiot. I mean that in a most sincere way. I disagree with many here. Think their P.O.V. is a bit off the wall, that they are naive or deluded into thinking government is some magic elixir or silver bullet. And while I might disagree with them in strong terms (hey, I'm a fukin' New Yorker!), I do regard their opinions to some degree. You however, demonstrate over and over again why so many people think you are an idiot. You make Bull Gator look sharp, and that ain't easy to do.

#89 d'ranger

d'ranger

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,216 posts

Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:53 PM

I remember, almost like it was yesterday when 'No.2 was pontificating about how small people talk about others, great people about ideas blah blah blah.

#90 Regatta Dog

Regatta Dog

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,155 posts

Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:14 PM

Bush was not a fundamentalist. He would never have backed the nutz who figured out that women's bodies have a way of rejecting these things. Come to think of it, this woman's body also had a way of rejecting the "bad" baby. But the outcome does not meet modern standards of civilization, which is why we call the regressives.


Here's the huge difference between you and rational people --

When Hank Johnson claims that adding 8,000 Marines to Guam will cause it to capsize, rational people attribute that to individual idiocy.

When Todd Akin claims a woman's body can naturally avoid conception when raped, you attribute that to conspiritorial, collective retardation of anyone with an "R" after his/her name.

#91 Spatial Ed

Spatial Ed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,581 posts
  • Location:The Dark Side of Kolob
  • Interests:Subhuman Mongrels in momjeans

Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:15 PM


Bush was not a fundamentalist. He would never have backed the nutz who figured out that women's bodies have a way of rejecting these things. Come to think of it, this woman's body also had a way of rejecting the "bad" baby. But the outcome does not meet modern standards of civilization, which is why we call the regressives.


Here's the huge difference between you and rational people --

When Hank Johnson claims that adding 8,000 Marines to Guam will cause it to capsize, rational people attribute that to individual idiocy.

When Todd Akin claims a woman's body can naturally avoid conception when raped, you attribute that to conspiritorial, collective retardation of anyone with an "R" after his/her name.

Well, one was on the house science committee.

#92 Sol Rosenberg

Sol Rosenberg

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 51,046 posts
  • Location:Earth

Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:25 PM

You just don't understand this issue. I know things about this, which you do not. My superior knowledge relieves me I the burden of identifying the source of that knowledge. I will just question your intelligence.

On the other hand, I would like to know how a loving benevolent all-powerful god allows pain and sadness such as we see in this story, and so many other varied stories of pain and sadness, to exist.

#93 MoeAlfa

MoeAlfa

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,322 posts

Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:29 PM

God exists and he's a sadist who endows us with all the silly optimism and capacity for denial we need to get out of bed on a lifetime of mornings and then lets us, and everyone and everything we love, die.

#94 Sol Rosenberg

Sol Rosenberg

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 51,046 posts
  • Location:Earth

Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:32 PM

God exists and he's a sadist who endowed us with all the silly optimism and capacity for denial necessary to get out of bed for a lifetime of mornings and then lets us, and everyone and everything we love, die.

I've seen nothing of late which lends credence to the notion of a happy everything dude, and a wealth of things which convince me that the opposite is true.

#95 GRUMPY

GRUMPY

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 26,947 posts
  • Location:Balikpapan, Indonesia
  • Interests:Hobie Miracle 20

Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:41 PM

BJ hasn't either. He's going to go blue water sailing shortly.

He'll mumble something under his breath somewhere along the way. Trust me.

#96 kmccabe

kmccabe

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,881 posts
  • Location:Belly of the Beast.

Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:48 PM


God exists and he's a sadist who endowed us with all the silly optimism and capacity for denial necessary to get out of bed for a lifetime of mornings and then lets us, and everyone and everything we love, die.

I've seen nothing of late which lends credence to the notion of a happy everything dude, and a wealth of things which convince me that the opposite is true.


Didja ever stop to think that we're not here to have a happy time but to learn and grow?

#97 Clove Hitch

Clove Hitch

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,945 posts
  • Location:around and about
  • Interests:Garnacha. Gunk-holing.

Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:50 PM

God exists and he's a sadist who endows us with all the silly optimism and capacity for denial we need to get out of bed on a lifetime of mornings and then lets us, and everyone and everything we love, die.


Some cynic told me god only exists when the charge of the neuron membrane gets to around -55mV (give or take).

#98 squirel

squirel

    Anarchist

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,692 posts

Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:58 PM

If you could only be a squirrel for a couple of minutes and gnaw into one of last fall's well aged, properly buried acorns - NUTZ!!! - you would have no doubt that God exists. As it is you're a poor slob of a human down in your mother's basement faced with the fact that no more Twinkies are going to be produced for a while - if I had to live like that, I'd surely doubt the existence of God myself.

#99 MoeAlfa

MoeAlfa

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,322 posts

Posted 16 November 2012 - 03:01 PM



God exists and he's a sadist who endowed us with all the silly optimism and capacity for denial necessary to get out of bed for a lifetime of mornings and then lets us, and everyone and everything we love, die.

I've seen nothing of late which lends credence to the notion of a happy everything dude, and a wealth of things which convince me that the opposite is true.


Didja ever stop to think that we're not here to have a happy time but to learn and grow?

Yes, and the thought made me sad.

#100 No.6

No.6

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,042 posts
  • Location:Portmeirion
  • Interests:Danger

Posted 16 November 2012 - 03:01 PM

I remember, almost like it was yesterday when 'No.2 was pontificating about how small people talk about others, great people about ideas blah blah blah.

Guilty as charged. We all have our moments. It is part of the human condition. However some ONLY talk about small things while others try to push beyond that with ideas and concepts.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users