38 replies to this topic

[Hobie Dog]

Hey guys I am considering purchasing an early model Alerion 28 (mid 90's and pre jib boom setup). These boats command top price new so just wondering how the construction is holding up over the years. I assume the deck is balsa cored but anybody know about the hull construction? The two I am considering are a little on the rough side but a compound and wax with A LOT of time with the varnish and I could have a really nice boat for the money. The ones in good shape and built in 2000+ are more than I want to spend. Thoughts?

I don't want to use the word restore but are these boats worth the time and some money to bring back to a newer condition?


Anything else I should consider?

Key requirements are a GOOD sailing boat (25-30'), small cabin for a head and a place to crash. Diesel engine is a plus and needs to be around the mid Atlantic. Typical 4KSB with a tiny ass wheel and overlapping Genoa need not apply. Nothing wrong with those boats as a nice cruising platform but I am just looking for the tiller, simple, big main and small jib setup.

OH and I am NOT interested in racing her in even informal racing. I get my racing fix crewing on OPB for keel and OD design on my dinghies.

[hyderally]

Look at the BB 10 meter. Much prettier than the Alerion, faster and with a surprisingly good interior. I have one and enjoy it. Mine is an outboard which I prefer but the attached listing is an inboard and looks like a nice boat. Listed for years so I'd bet offers might work!
By teh way, Judy Lawson sailed a BB 10 transatlantic and most of the way back, singlehanded. Without the rigging failure she might have won the OSTAR.
http://www.yachtworl...T/United-States

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[Paddy]

Bob Perry's original review. The boat feel is like a much larger boat, terrific balance.



http://www.sailingma...s?directory=138

[Kent H]

If I bought one of the early boats I would plan on taking everything that goes through the hull off, seal and then reattach. I have seen several early boats in yachtworld that have been heavily marked down due to the survey coming back with some serious water in the core. I do believe that the entire hull is balsa cored.

Would I do it. Yes! If you can get a hull that has only some repairable deck core or ....very repairable hull core and fix it up that is a boat that can be kept and have a lot of fun with. This is one of the few project boats that I would jump at.

The core problems on the boats in question seemed to be a lot worse than any Jboats of the same vintage and I believe that they were built at TPI at the same time. I do not know anything about the layup or any other details.

[6924]

Older ones have a odd engine. There was also a certain amount of wet deck cores as boats got older. No idea if the wet deck core is widespread or just isolated.

[radicalmove]

The folks at Nancy Anne Charters in Holland, MI had one for 3 or 4 years, liked it enough
to jump to a 33 (which is now on the market). You might call them and ask for an opinion.
Also Ben Miller, a surveyor from around Green Bay had or his family has one of the first.
Might contact him and see what long term use has done to the boat.
Good Luck. They are sweet sailing boats.

[Black Jack]

sweet boat built for lawyers with tender hands saving an afternoon to sail a week.

Carl designed that boat to be quite simple. the boat has a great turn of speed considering the simplicity. Most boats have the jib boon retrofitted on the deck. Most have heads like standing portapotties, an icechest and minimal refinement. But under single or double handled sailing a real easy boat with a tight close turning radius. The small factory inboards are more than adequate. They are pretty basic with local price 50k to 70k for a older one (half the price of new) here in San Francisco

[Kent H]

If you do buy the boat please do take some pictures and when you’re done start a detailed thread. My take on this boat is that this is definitely not a difficult project that 99% of sailors can do. I think a lot of people would be interested in the time, cost and issues found in this project.

As long as you start with major items that do not need replacement or are too far gone that they need a large number of hours at professional rates the result is a great boat.

Great idea for a thread and I hope that others look into these early boats.

[U20guy2]

They are wicked fast on a reach - I've raced a few back to RYC on various boats after a day on the city front and when a 28footer with two on board eating lunch and having a beer can casually walk away from a 32 footer with full crew some of which are working the trim and driving in an effort to beat the 28 back to the barn makes the A28 look pretty damn good.

I recall it shares its under body and general spec numbers with the Express 27 - toss an updated keel and day sailor deck on the Express 27 and they would be near twin sisters.

[Monster Mash]

They are wicked fast on a reach - I've raced a few back to RYC on various boats after a day on the city front and when a 28footer with two on board eating lunch and having a beer can casually walk away from a 32 footer with full crew some of which are working the trim and driving in an effort to beat the 28 back to the barn makes the A28 look pretty damn good.

I recall it shares its under body and general spec numbers with the Express 27 - toss an updated keel and day sailor deck on the Express 27 and they would be near twin sisters.

There is nothing common about the A28 and Express27 hull, keel or rudder except that both boats were desinged by Carl S.

[ropetrick]

They are sweet boats.

Well worth the effort.

Just DO IT!

P.S. Chicks dig'em.

[U20guy2]

LOA 27' 3" LWL 23' 9" Beam 8' Draft 4'6" (fin) Ballast 1100 lb Displacement 2450 lb Sail Area 276 square feet (100%) PHRF Rating Boats Built

LOA 28' 3" LWL 22' 10" BEAM 8' 2 " DRAFT 4' 6" (3' 6" shoal ) DISPLACEMENT 5700 lbs.; BALLAST 2200 lbs. SAIL AREA 352 sq. ft SAIL AREA/DISP 17.7

Drawn by the same MAN - yes they are shockingly very similar especially when you see them parked next to each other. I've raced against Carl - and on many of his boats they all share very similar design aspects that make all of them exceptionally good boats.

[Monster Mash]

LOA 27' 3" LWL 23' 9" Beam 8' Draft 4'6" (fin) Ballast 1100 lb Displacement 2450 lb Sail Area 276 square feet (100%) PHRF Rating Boats Built

LOA 28' 3" LWL 22' 10" BEAM 8' 2 " DRAFT 4' 6" (3' 6" shoal ) DISPLACEMENT 5700 lbs.; BALLAST 2200 lbs. SAIL AREA 352 sq. ft SAIL AREA/DISP 17.7

Drawn by the same MAN - yes they are shockingly very similar especially when you see them parked next to each other. I've raced against Carl - and on many of his boats they all share very similar design aspects that make all of them exceptionally good boats.

What are you smoking? I've seen them side by side many times. No similarity at all.

While you're at it tell us again about the retractable keel Wilderness 21 designed by Gary Mull or how unseaworthy Newport 30s are, especialy the one thats done two succesful Pac Cups. LOL

[U20guy2]

LOA 27' 3" LWL 23' 9" Beam 8' Draft 4'6" (fin) Ballast 1100 lb Displacement 2450 lb Sail Area 276 square feet (100%) PHRF Rating Boats Built

LOA 28' 3" LWL 22' 10" BEAM 8' 2 " DRAFT 4' 6" (3' 6" shoal ) DISPLACEMENT 5700 lbs.; BALLAST 2200 lbs. SAIL AREA 352 sq. ft SAIL AREA/DISP 17.7

Drawn by the same MAN - yes they are shockingly very similar especially when you see them parked next to each other. I've raced against Carl - and on many of his boats they all share very similar design aspects that make all of them exceptionally good boats.

What are you smoking? I've seen them side by side many times. No similarity at all.

Apparently not what your smoking

[familysailor]

What about a Subaru?

[ropetrick]

What about a Subaru?

Not worth fixing.

[Bump-n-Grind]

What about a Subaru?

always wondered about diesels in those....

but on the A28 topic.. I've known two people here in the Naptown area that have owned them. both loved them. they sure are pretty boats.

[familysailor]

Alerion 28:



Express 27:

Subaru:

[ShockValue]

Yes, the Alerion and the Suburu do look a lot alike. That express 27 is a nice looking boat though.

[wcnann]

We've got one listed up here in the Newport area that is in great shape. The link to the listing is below. The Owner wants her sold. You won't find one at a much better price than this one. Give me a call or shoot me an email...401-683-9200, craig@northstaryachtsales.com

http://www.northstar...&searchtype=buy

[Hobie Dog]

Thanks for all the replies!

Sounds like I need to do a through inspection of the deck. One problem with the boat that I just thought of is no spinnaker but one could be added easy enough.


Never heard of the BB 10 Meter, learn something new everyday. The Express 27 looks nice as well but not many out here on the east coast. What else should I consider?

Always liked the Hobie 33. Seems like a popular platform for short handed distance racing so would make a nice day-sailor and weekend cruiser as well. And she would make a nice distance racer for the Chesapeake. Wait didn't I say I was not going to race this boat?! Who am I kidding I am sure I will!

[Kent H]

You and me like the same type of boats!

Hobie 33 is an interesting idea as well. If it has the lift keel it can be stored cheap and launched cheap. The hull is cored with foam. Most have Honda outboards that may still have life in them. Also fairly cheap. Definitely not as good looking. Also over 30 feet so dock or mooring MIGHT be more $$$ Definitely not as inviting to others for a day sail. I think that is a big reason why the price has fallen. It is a racing boat.

The Abbott line of boats interested me as well as the Avance and the other related narrow boats from Scandinavian designers. When you are bored it is worth some time looking at them. Keep in mind that Bob Perry's personal boat is a 26 footer of Scandinavian heritage. Not exactly a narrow type boat but worth looking at.

[U20guy2]

Yes, the Alerion and the Suburu do look a lot alike. That express 27 is a nice looking boat though.

10yrs sailing in the E27 fleet in SF doing Foredeck. Wylie Coyote belongs to a good friend. Yes awesome boats they are even more fun when its blowing over 40 and your surfing huge pacific swells down the coast.

[DEAD MONEY]

Great lifelong Buddy has one in Newport. Great Boat!! Can easily be sailed in anything!

[Nancy Anne Sailing Charter]

I have had considerable experience with Alerion Express 28 and Alerion Express 33 sailboats over the last seven years.

Just to back up the time line a bit, I was sailing my Colgate 26 one day back in 2004 when I got in an impromtu race with an Alerion Express 28. I was a little ahead of the AE 28 and was working my boat pretty hard to stay there while this guy and his wife were having a picnic on theirs and keeping up without much effort. The beauty of the lines of that boat made a big impression, as well as the performance so I made arrangements to go sailing with them a few days later. There was just one problem with the sailing: The guy's wife was such a beauty it was hard to concentrate on the attributes of the boat but by the time we came off of Lake Michigan, the hook was well and truly set.

I was off then to Rhode Island to buy a new one from Gary Hoyt who was their marketing guy back in 2005. So I speced one out with the two cylinder 15 HP Yanmar diesel and took delivery of a 2006 the following spring. We raced it as a JAM boat quite successfully for three years. In the fourth year we raced it with an A-kite in the spinnaker fleet and didin't do as well as we did with just the jib and main. In that fourth year I started up Nancy Anne Sailing Charters to take folks out on the big lake on captained day sails. That was quite successful so I wanted to upgrade to a slightly larger Alerion and bought a new 2010 Alerion Express 33, which is the AE 28 on steriods. Both of these boats are such sweet sailors.

I continued the day sailing charter business on the AE 33 for the past three years and in the high season we'll go out as many as three times per day, introducing sailing to a lot of folks who have never been sailing before. They fall in love with the Alerion and with sailing. I plan on expanding the business some more by offering overnight trips to nearby ports in 2013. That will necessitate more of a cruising boat so I have the 2010 Alerion Express up for sale on Yacht World.

Check it out at: http://www.yachtworl...I/United-States

Alerions do hold their prices. They are solid boats that perform well and look great. I have been very pleased with both of the Alerion Express's that I have owned and will recommend the brand.

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[Vee]

I have had considerable experience with Alerion Express 28 and Alerion Express 33 sailboats over the last seven years.

Just to back up the time line a bit, I was sailing my Colgate 26 one day back in 2004 when I got in an impromtu race with an Alerion Express 28. I was a little ahead of the AE 28 and was working my boat pretty hard to stay there while this guy and his wife were having a picnic on theirs and keeping up without much effort. The beauty of the lines of that boat made a big impression, as well as the performance so I made arrangements to go sailing with them a few days later. There was just one problem with the sailing: The guy's wife was such a beauty it was hard to concentrate on the attributes of the boat but by the time we came off of Lake Michigan, the hook was well and truly set.

I was off then to Rhode Island to buy a new one from Gary Hoyt who was their marketing guy back in 2005. So I speced one out with the two cylinder 15 HP Yanmar diesel and took delivery of a 2006 the following spring. We raced it as a JAM boat quite successfully for three years. In the fourth year we raced it with an A-kite in the spinnaker fleet and didin't do as well as we did with just the jib and main. In that fourth year I started up Nancy Anne Sailing Charters to take folks out on the big lake on captained day sails. That was quite successful so I wanted to upgrade to a slightly larger Alerion and bought a new 2010 Alerion Express 33, which is the AE 28 on steriods. Both of these boats are such sweet sailors.

I continued the day sailing charter business on the AE 33 for the past three years and in the high season we'll go out as many as three times per day, introducing sailing to a lot of folks who have never been sailing before. They fall in love with the Alerion and with sailing. I plan on expanding the business some more by offering overnight trips to nearby ports in 2013. That will necessitate more of a cruising boat so I have the 2010 Alerion Express up for sale on Yacht World.

Check it out at: http://www.yachtworl...I/United-States

Alerions do hold their prices. They are solid boats that perform well and look great. I have been very pleased with both of the Alerion Express's that I have owned and will recommend the brand.

You will find that the appropriate response here is two-fold.

Buy an ad.

Show us your tits, or your girlfriends tits. Though given your display name it is hard to tell which would be more interesting.

The ball is in your court.

Btw, don't be too offended. It is SA etiquette.

[Hobie Dog]

You and me like the same type of boats!

Hobie 33 is an interesting idea as well. If it has the lift keel it can be stored cheap and launched cheap. The hull is cored with foam. Most have Honda outboards that may still have life in them. Also fairly cheap. Definitely not as good looking. Also over 30 feet so dock or mooring MIGHT be more $$$ Definitely not as inviting to others for a day sail. I think that is a big reason why the price has fallen. It is a racing boat.

The Abbott line of boats interested me as well as the Avance and the other related narrow boats from Scandinavian designers. When you are bored it is worth some time looking at them. Keep in mind that Bob Perry's personal boat is a 26 footer of Scandinavian heritage. Not exactly a narrow type boat but worth looking at.

If I had use of a barn this winter where I could put the Alerion and work on her I would jump on this boat but I don't and the weather in MD during the winter can be hit or miss. And I know once it gets warm in April I am going to want to be sailing not working on bright work so boats like the Hobie 33 are probably a better option for me. Price of a slip between 28' and 33' is not that much and the cost of a Hobie 33 is significantly less than the Alerion.

Just looking around and having fun with it. My requirements have changed some. I want a boat with a kite and probably will do some distance racing on the Chesapeake. Prefer diesel for cruising when there is no wind but I can deal with an OB and less money for the OB in maintenance.

[hyderally]

Nice to have some time as your thoughts about a boat distill down to what you really want. Worst thing is to buy in haste and be stuck with a boat you really didn't want... (what's that sound like?)
There are several Hobie 33s on the Chesapeake at pretty good prices. Up at Tidewater marine in Baltimore. We have one in partnership on the Magothy River and love it for Wed night racing. As a daysailor I don't think it would be as good but still would be 100% better than most boats you see around.
I also have a BB 10 meter and it's my favorite. Besides it's vastly superior looks, I prefer it over the Hobie because you can race it with 3. Racing the Hobie with less than 6 is giving something away.
Though the Alerion is a nice boat it strikes me as a bit...precious. Maybe just because of the price?
If one likes the long skinny daysailors, I am always surprised that more people don't just get the real thing? A very nice glass Atlantic can be gotten for around $10K. An IOD for $30K. A Shields for $15K. I saw a note on the IOD Class web site that a complete International One Design can be bought from Shaw Yachts for under $60,000. A lot of money but a whole lot less than the silly Harbor 30 or Hood 33 etc. And you'll have a true classic.

[Elegua]

My stepfather is looking to downsize and looking at some. It seems that there are some FUD about build quality, especially versus the original price.

Any truth to this?

[Hobie Dog]

Nice to have some time as your thoughts about a boat distill down to what you really want. Worst thing is to buy in haste and be stuck with a boat you really didn't want... (what's that sound like?)
There are several Hobie 33s on the Chesapeake at pretty good prices. Up at Tidewater marine in Baltimore. We have one in partnership on the Magothy River and love it for Wed night racing. As a daysailor I don't think it would be as good but still would be 100% better than most boats you see around.
I also have a BB 10 meter and it's my favorite. Besides it's vastly superior looks, I prefer it over the Hobie because you can race it with 3. Racing the Hobie with less than 6 is giving something away.
Though the Alerion is a nice boat it strikes me as a bit...precious. Maybe just because of the price?
If one likes the long skinny daysailors, I am always surprised that more people don't just get the real thing? A very nice glass Atlantic can be gotten for around $10K. An IOD for $30K. A Shields for $15K. I saw a note on the IOD Class web site that a complete International One Design can be bought from Shaw Yachts for under $60,000. A lot of money but a whole lot less than the silly Harbor 30 or Hood 33 etc. And you'll have a true classic.

Lots of good data, thanks!

[Hobie Dog]

My stepfather is looking to downsize and looking at some. It seems that there are some FUD about build quality, especially versus the original price.

Any truth to this?

This is part of what I was asking in my first post. When boats are selling for 125K new for a 28' boat the build quality should be top notch! Concerns me some that there is talk of wet decks and worse wet hulls on a 15 year old boat at this price point.

[Throatwarbler-Mangrove]

My stepfather is looking to downsize and looking at some. It seems that there are some FUD about build quality, especially versus the original price.

Any truth to this?

This is part of what I was asking in my first post. When boats are selling for 125K new for a 28' boat the build quality should be top notch! Concerns me some that there is talk of wet decks and worse wet hulls on a 15 year old boat at this price point.

I don't know the timeline for all this, but at some point TPI started replacing balsa with a composite material in the way of all through hulls and deck fittings. And at some point before that, they went to SCRIMP, which slows water migration. I have no idea whether the early production A-28s were built this way, but by 2003 they definitely were.

There are a couple of A-28s in our harbor. Owners seem happy with them. Usually, they single-hand. And these are older gentlemen. I will say that they are very pretty boats.

[U20guy2]

My stepfather is looking to downsize and looking at some. It seems that there are some FUD about build quality, especially versus the original price.

Any truth to this?

This is part of what I was asking in my first post. When boats are selling for 125K new for a 28' boat the build quality should be top notch! Concerns me some that there is talk of wet decks and worse wet hulls on a 15 year old boat at this price point.

The builder regardless of boat price is key in building a great boat vs one that isn't built so great etc. Even strict OD boats built by multiple builders will have various little builder specific things some that will result in a high quality spec boat that lasts a very long time - while another builder may have built the same boat with lacking attention to a few details resulting in a hull that suffers any number of issues as it gets older etc.

[Blackadder]

They are wicked fast on a reach - I've raced a few back to RYC on various boats after a day on the city front and when a 28footer with two on board eating lunch and having a beer can casually walk away from a 32 footer with full crew some of which are working the trim and driving in an effort to beat the 28 back to the barn makes the A28 look pretty damn good.

I recall it shares its under body and general spec numbers with the Express 27 - toss an updated keel and day sailor deck on the Express 27 and they would be near twin sisters.

The rig is straight out of a J/27, is why it reaches well...

[MidPack]

I've always liked the looks of the Alerion 28 and it's reasonably quick for it's size, at least compared to older 4KSB's. But knowing a J/80, J/92, J/27, J/29 or J/33 will blow the doors off the Alerion for less $ - or I could buy a used J/100 or J/105 for about them same money gives me pause. All of the J's mentioned can be easily singlehanded (they don't have to be race boats), and most were built in the same factory as Alerions (no longer the case) using similar design concepts (balsa cores, SCRIMP for some). The Alerion prices seem a lot to pay to look yachty and go displacement hull speeds...YMMV

[HWP]

Don't forget the Schock Harbor 25 and 30 in your thinking -- the cockpits are more comfortable than that of the Alerions; also, no teak to maintain. The basic concepts are similar in the AE and Harbor series: Hoyt boom for the jib, lots of room in the cockpit and a nice little cabin so that you could sleep aboard overnight if you wanted. Not much headroom in either, but the whole idea is easy daysailing with friends ... easy to get ready to sail and easy to put to bed. Both are faster than typical cruising boats of similar or somewhat longer length. The Harbor series gets around the wet laminate issue by using G10 (epoxy/fiberglass) pads that topside fittings are machine screwed into (not through).

[Elegua]

My stepfather is looking to downsize and looking at some. It seems that there are some FUD about build quality, especially versus the original price.

Any truth to this?

This is part of what I was asking in my first post. When boats are selling for 125K new for a 28' boat the build quality should be top notch! Concerns me some that there is talk of wet decks and worse wet hulls on a 15 year old boat at this price point.

I don't know the timeline for all this, but at some point TPI started replacing balsa with a composite material in the way of all through hulls and deck fittings. And at some point before that, they went to SCRIMP, which slows water migration. I have no idea whether the early production A-28s were built this way, but by 2003 they definitely were.

There are a couple of A-28s in our harbor. Owners seem happy with them. Usually, they single-hand. And these are older gentlemen. I will say that they are very pretty boats.

Hmm...two we looked at had some soft spots around: one in the deck and one near a through hull. But overall seemed a good solution for an older gentleman.

I on the other hand am pushing for a knockabout something like what this guy makes.

http://knockaboutsloops.blogspot.tw/search/label/Bolero%20Design

[Doc Häagen-Dazs]

... A very nice glass Atlantic can be gotten for around $10K. An IOD for $30K...

What's an ATLANTIC?

[ShockValue]