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#1 bljones

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:40 AM

Welcome to the UASHO!
(correctly pronouced "You Assho' ")

One positive aspect of the Urban Blight thread is that the ugly boat admirer closet door cracked open.
I'm okay with ugly boats. It appears many of you are as well.
Now, let's get this shit straight, there is a difference between UGLYboats and FUGLY boats. Ugly boats are boats with their heart in the right place, with skippers who sail the damn things. Fugly boats are just straight up WTF were they thinking? Either the owners, builders or NAs who drew them- take your pick.

So, no fugly boats here- just your favourite uglyboats.

Phil Bolger drew a shitload of uglyboats,

Posted Image

but they were ugly on purpose, with a method to his madness. Besides, the man also drew the chebacco,

Posted Image


... it ain't like he didn't know how to draw a pretty boat.

So, whatcha got?

#2 Bob Perry

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:53 AM

Come on!
BJ:
Bolger never drew an ugly boat in his life.
He drew some unusual looking boats but he always had control over the shape and all of the lines.
The true, deep down, butt ugly boat is born out of ignorance for the essential aesthetic paranorms of yacht design,

I don't know what "paranorms" means but when I came to that part of the sentance it just had the right feel. I may have heard it on CNN. Feel free to substitute the high faluting word of your choice.

When I look at Bolger's unusual designs and someone says, "That's ugly" I think of the people who didn't like Beethoven's last quartets. Those listeners were just not ready, not open enough, not, with no offfense intended, educated musically enough.

It's a paranormal kind of thang.

I'm in a bad mood. But quite clean.
My wife has us both on a "cleansing diet" for the weekend. Some Dr. Oz thing she saw on TV. I'm realigning my hormones through diet.
This boils down to: If it tastes good, you can't have it.

The morning was all exotic juices and not a single Bloody Mary.
Lunch was twigs and leaves of various kinds. Thank God for olive oil.
Dinner is an amorphous cabbage soup and no ham hocks.

I have some black cherry ice cream stashed for after Jill goes to bed.

#3 bljones

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:58 AM

Bob, one man's unusual is another man's ugly, that is why this is the uglyboat ADMIRATION society. The "true deep down butt ugly" boat is fugly- fucking ugly.
we don't do fugly here, because you are right. Beauty is skin deep, and ugly goes to the bone, but FUGLY goes right down deep into the soul.

#4 Tom Ray

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:00 AM

I'm rereading Boats With An Open Mind, which is basically Bolger's book on this thread topic. I find many of the boats ugly yet appealing. So I guess I'm not quite ready. I might have to read it yet again when I'm done. Would not kill me. I fell asleep last night still laughing over his little punt that would carry a crew of adults plus a "large, frightened dog."

#5 greeng

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:02 AM

Hmm... Dangerous territory here, but as an ugly boat owner myself (Cal T/2), maybe I'm safe.

So here goes - I understand the functional appeal of center cockpit designs, but still... Tough to make them look "right".

Case in point - Morgan Out Island.

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#6 hobot

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:06 AM

so, no need for a run to Home Depot? Bob's Burgers and Brews just up the road.


Sometimes ugly boats are owner inflicted too.
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#7 floating dutchman

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:08 AM

So the differance between a Fugly boat and an Ugly boat is the same as the differance between two ugly women, but one fucks?

#8 bljones

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:11 AM

Not one that fucks, but one that you would think about fucking- it's an eye of the beholder thing, i think.

#9 Tom Ray

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:12 AM

Hobot wins.

#10 steele

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:40 AM

Tanzers are my pic. There are lots of them in my marina, not great to look at, but they have a clunky purposeful vibe to them that has grown on me,

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#11 Soņadora

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:55 AM

I don't know, if I think of something that's 'ugly', it has to be ugly through and through. Not just in appearence but in soul. That's a tough thing to do and it needs to be done with purpose and conviction.

years ago a coworker came to the office after giving birth to show off her newborn baby. I saw her in the reception area with some of the other hens who were all smiles looking down at the kid. Naturally, I anticipated a lovely little cherub. Hopefully my quick exit did not incite any concern as once I saw the demon spawn what was, I very nearly threw up in my mouth.

He is now a college man and one of the most handsom kids you'll ever see.

So I have a tough time judging ugly, 'cept when it comes to the opposite sex. And up here in MN while there are plenty of blond-haired, blue eyed scandi-queens, the ugly stick borne of the ugly tree grows strong up on the range.

#12 Soņadora

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:00 AM

and the funny thing about ugly too. Expose yourself to it enough and that shit grows on you. Dock neighbor had one o' them Bayliner Bastards. He was of the man persuasion and as a result, that ugly-ass boat was the cleanest and most orderly in the harbor. Down below, I was impressed with the amount of room that thing had. When you're in it, you can't see the outside.

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#13 Heavy Metal

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:01 AM

Ive always had a morbid facination with Chieftans. No idea who the designer is



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#14 R Booze

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:10 AM

One of my old dock neighbors had a rare Chris Craft ketch. I still, to this day, can not figure out if it was attractive, odd, different, ugly, fugly or just plain fukhideous....

#15 hobot

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:43 AM

Espeacialy with the built in headlites

#16 Bob Perry

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:57 AM

BLJ:
OK, I think I get it. That old S&S ketch I believe went on to become either a Swan model, believe it or not, or maybe a Wuaquiez model. I think I know the boat you are referring to Booth, too much sheer spring, funky raised quarter deck, odd shaped tarnsom. Right? I always thought that boat odd but not bad looking., in a fugly sort of way.

#17 R Booze

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:02 AM

Posted Image


Posted Image

#18 Trickypig

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:57 AM

Ok ... so here's a hard one. The scow that won the Mini Transat.

very fast reaching and running but gives a speed away upwind.

If form follows function; will we become used to this form?

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#19 R Booze

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:06 AM

Ok ... so here's a hard one. The scow that won the Mini Transat.

very fast reaching and running but gives a speed away upwind.

If form follows function; will we become used to this form?


Looks like Moby Dick's dick....

#20 Paps

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:35 AM

Sorry Tricky but you have crossed that line.

#21 Trickypig

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:31 AM

Sorry Tricky but you have crossed that line.


Shame it's bloody fast.

#22 Paps

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:40 AM


Sorry Tricky but you have crossed that line.


Shame it's bloody fast.


And roomy I guess.

#23 TheFlash

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:46 AM

I don't know, if I think of something that's 'ugly', it has to be ugly through and through. Not just in appearence but in soul. That's a tough thing to do and it needs to be done with purpose and conviction.

years ago a coworker came to the office after giving birth to show off her newborn baby. I saw her in the reception area with some of the other hens who were all smiles looking down at the kid. Naturally, I anticipated a lovely little cherub. Hopefully my quick exit did not incite any concern as once I saw the demon spawn what was, I very nearly threw up in my mouth.

He is now a college man and one of the most handsom kids you'll ever see.

So I have a tough time judging ugly, 'cept when it comes to the opposite sex. And up here in MN while there are plenty of blond-haired, blue eyed scandi-queens, the ugly stick borne of the ugly tree grows strong up on the range.


Really, you had to bring up the 'range chicks? Funny thing about them is that many(certainly not all) are pretty cute till about HS graduation, then something seriously bad happens. People of WalMart bad. Maybe it's just the cute ones leave, leaving behind the "devil spawn". Must be the generations of inbreeding or something.

#24 Steam Flyer

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:22 PM

Ok ... so here's a hard one. The scow that won the Mini Transat.

very fast reaching and running but gives a speed away upwind.

If form follows function; will we become used to this form?


Nothing hard about that... if it wins, it's beautiful.

2nd on Bolger never drawing an ugly boat.

IMHO "ugly" is something that is impractical or dysfunctional, not just failure to conform to a certain aesthetic.

FB- Doug

#25 Tom Ray

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:33 PM

This is not ugly? I actually like the design in some ways and might even own one, but damn. That's UGLY. (Bolger Fiddler II)

Posted Image

#26 Anomaly2

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:43 PM

This is not ugly? I actually like the design in some ways and might even own one, but damn. That's UGLY. (Bolger Fiddler II)


I'll bet you one alcohol fueled daysail on our respective home waters that that wasn't built to the plans. One of the problems with the "Bolger boats are ugly" line is that a lot of whats out there are owner-induced departures from the plans. For a whole host of reasons that seemed like good ideas at the time. But weren't. Bolger used to say that one of the keys to being a good designer was to pick your builders carefully. Imagine the risk a designer takes with their reputation when they sell plans for backyard wood butchers like me....

#27 Bob Perry

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:47 PM

Boothy:
Oh yeah, that old one. I forgot about that one. Thanks a lot for reminding me.
I don't find that boat so bad. It's no beauty but for what it is I think it's OK.

I don;t race Mini Transats so I have no dog in that fight but to my eye that thing is big time ugly. But kind of cool in that it works well.
I was really hoping that design would be slow but I knew in my heart that it would work, off the wind.

#28 Tom Ray

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:53 PM


This is not ugly? I actually like the design in some ways and might even own one, but damn. That's UGLY. (Bolger Fiddler II)


I'll bet you one alcohol fueled daysail on our respective home waters that that wasn't built to the plans. One of the problems with the "Bolger boats are ugly" line is that a lot of whats out there are owner-induced departures from the plans. For a whole host of reasons that seemed like good ideas at the time. But weren't. Bolger used to say that one of the keys to being a good designer was to pick your builders carefully. Imagine the risk a designer takes with their reputation when they sell plans for backyard wood butchers like me....


Anomaly, I was just leafing through 30 Odd Boats and found that one, and the cartoon in the book looks pretty darn similar to the built boat. The boat looks a bit rougher in a few details, but my opinion is that they are both darn ugly.

#29 TQA

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:07 PM

I cruised for 7 years on an ugly boat. It was the most boat for my £ when I was looking. 1/4in corten steel but the designer clearly was having an off day.

The G&T at sundown looked the same and I got to look at the pretty boats from my ugly one.

https://picasaweb.go...feat=directlink

#30 boomer

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:34 PM

Though I admired Bolger for being innovative. I can't say I admired all his designs.

In fact I admired a minor percentage of them, In his later years the percentage of good looking designs declined considerably.

Functional in Bolger terms looks functional, functional does not necessarily look appealing,nor usually good looking or aesthetically pleasing.

Designers who continued to learn from experience, and who's designs continued to improve in aesthetics, as well as form and function aesthetically in their later years. Those are the designers who to me have honed their skills well, and are masters of their trade.

#31 Anomaly2

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:34 PM

The boat looks a bit rougher in a few details, but my opinion is that they are both darn ugly.


I'll take that as a gracious concession- Just let me know when to come down for the boozecruise. Or, you come up here and supply the booze and I'll supply the boat(s). Hell, we could probably even get KD to join us if he's not busy marrying Courtney offf (or perusing those odd photo libraries that only he seems to have access to).

#32 SemiSalt

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:54 PM

I'll bet you one alcohol fueled daysail on our respective home waters that that wasn't built to the plans.


The cutwater thing under the bow doesn't show on the plans in 30 Odd Boats, and there should be hatch between the two forward-looking windows. Otherwise, it looks pretty true.

The point is that it's 16' long and has a double bed (hence the smoked glass), galley and dresser. And since PCB was really good powerboat designer, but I bet it runs OK.

In the same book, Bolger said of a 20' cruising sharpie design, "Finally, she's plain ugly. Jessie Cooper (next chapter) is ugly but with strong character. This one is nondescript ugly." He also wrote that leeboards (which he used a lot) are ugly. So he wasn't under any illusions, but he was a genius at getting a "form follows function" exception on many of his boats.

#33 SemiSalt

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:49 PM

I snapped this boat in one of our local marinas. I guess it's an example of a boat made ugly by squeezing in too much interior. i worry that if I sneer at it in public, it will turn out to have been designed by some big name designer (no, not BP).


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#34 Bob Perry

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:59 PM

Semi:
That is a Bayliner and they established new levels for ugly in almost all their models.
Sad thing is that a couple of those Bayliners beauties were built on hulls splashed from nice Gary Mull designs. "I'm sure another 15" of freeboard will look just fine."

Back to Bolger and ugly. I'm still not buying it. I think when he called his own designs "ugly" we was just getting a jump on the peanut gallery. "What do you mean you think it;s ugly? I already told you you'd think it was ugly."
Or as Beethoven put it, "You are not supposed to like it."

I'll tell you a story:
When I was a kid in the early 60's there was a designer from Chicago F.S. Ford Jr.. Mr Ford advertised his design services frequently in rather large ads in YACHTING and RUDDER. His designs were hideous. Even as a kid I remember thinking how grim his designs were. His sailboats were ugly and so were his powerboats. I mean his boats didn't have a single harmonious line on them. One day I was talking to Bill Garden and I asked him what he thought of F.S. Ford's designs. Bill said, "I think God should break his pencil."

So maybe our director in charge of all Google things nautical, Mr. Boomer, could dig up an example of an F.S. Ford Jr. design so we can all nod knowling.

#35 Gatekeeper

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:35 PM

Like this...."yak"

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#36 slap

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:55 PM

This is not ugly? I actually like the design in some ways and might even own one, but damn. That's UGLY. (Bolger Fiddler II)

Posted Image


It looks like one of the shuttles used in the original Star Trek. Just add in the the side "torpedos", and off you go....

#37 Bob Perry

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:57 PM

Good work Gate. That's one of his better looking boats.

#38 viktor

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:16 PM

Bob:
The Bayliner Buccaneers have to be WAY up there on the ugly meter. Someone told me long ago that Bill Garden designed one of them, I truly hoped he was wrong,I guess he was right :( Any idea on just what happened. I love his work. We lived on a lovely 36ft
powerboat of his design named Journeyman.

http://sailboatdata....p?class_id=1327

#39 boomer

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:16 PM


This is not ugly? I actually like the design in some ways and might even own one, but damn. That's UGLY. (Bolger Fiddler II)

Posted Image


It looks like one of the shuttles used in the original Star Trek. Just add in the the side "torpedos", and off you go....


You nailed it! The guy that designed the Star Trek Shuttle was a car designer back in the day.

Same guy that designed the Ford Econoline pickup.

#40 boomer

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:18 PM

So maybe our director in charge of all Google things nautical, Mr. Boomer, could dig up an example of an F.S. Ford Jr. design so we can all nod knowling.



Didn't he design the Pintail?

#41 Bob Perry

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:21 PM

Vik:
Yes, Bill designed two models for Bayliner. Bill was friends with Oran Edson who owned Bayliner at the time and I suspect Edson threw box of money at Bill and Bill caved. But Bill wouldn't avoid a challenge and I suspect he was proud of the ugly boats he drew for Bayliner and I'm certian they were exactly what Bayliner wanted at the time. Bill's Bayliners are not nearly as ugly as the in house Bayliners.

#42 boomer

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:22 PM

That is a Bayliner and they established new levels for ugly in almost all their models.
Sad thing is that a couple of those Bayliners beauties were built on hulls splashed from nice Gary Mull designs. "I'm sure another 15" of freeboard will look just fine."



I remember the Garden and Peterson designs. I don't remember the Mull designs.

edit: Gasp! I wonder if the guy in charge of their sailboat division was blind? http://sailboatdata....?builder_id=117

#43 Bob Perry

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:29 PM

Boomer:
As I remember two of the Bayliner models were splashes off Rangers 23' and 26' models. The Peterson was their half ton model and it was not a bad looking boat by comparison. I went up to visit them when this was going on and they were not bashful about explaining the wisdom of their splashes.

#44 boomer

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:37 PM

Based on marketing no doubt....and probably pissed off Mull.

Peterson either designed or they bought the molds of a couple of his designs....wonder if they paid royalties.

#45 boomer

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:39 PM

So maybe our director in charge of all Google things nautical, Mr. Boomer, could dig up an example of an F.S. Ford Jr. design so we can all nod knowling.



Didn't he design the Pintail?


Looks like he designed more then a few boats for MFG, who had more then a few generic boats over the years.

That Shark cat wasn't so generic though.

Strange that they were the original builder of the Corvette bodies....to bad that didn't play over into their boat designs.

http://sailboatdata....?builder_id=260

#46 Gatekeeper

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:40 PM

Good work Gate. That's one of his better looking boats.


As requested....

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#47 Bob Perry

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:42 PM

Boomer:
I don't think Bayliner was used to paying outside designers and at the same time they were not familiar enough with sailing yacht design to do the design and tooling inhouse. I'm not certain but I think that Ranger may have been out of business when these splashes occurred. Next time you see one of those Bayliner models, squint and try to block off the top 12" or so of the freeboard. I'll bet you can find a Ranger in there.

F.S. Ford Jr. did design the PINTAIL.

#48 boomer

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:54 PM

Had a Econoline truck as a hauler for trips back in the day, guy told me in a gas station down in California, same guy designed the Star Trek Shuttle.

He was correct.....http://www.c-we.com/...eneWinfield.htm

#49 Anomaly2

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:56 PM

This is not ugly? I actually like the design in some ways and might even own one, but damn. That's UGLY. (Bolger Fiddler II)

Posted Image


I keep looking at that raggedy "sheer line" and thinking 'no way Phil drew it like that'... And then it hit me: For fuck's sake Tom, you've got us debating the aesthetics of a paper model cut out (presumably?) from the cartoon and taped together (the first clue was the tape on the corner of the windows....) and then plunked down in the back garden for the photo shoot.....

If we're gonna debate "ugly" lets at least use a real build. How about "Watervan"? But no sayin its "ugly" till you spent at least a night aboard. Preferably on a hot summer night (even better with some hotties) so you can test out the ventilation:

http://www.google.co...29,r:2,s:0,i:79

Lots of pics of Watervan here, at the top of the page, followed by a rather great collection of other Bolger works (full disclosure, one is a build of mine):

http://www.google.co....w=1024&bih=537

#50 boomer

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:02 PM

Someday somebody will put USS Enterprise shuttle logo on the sides of one...if it hasn't been done already.Posted Image



Posted Image

#51 redboat

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:50 PM

Always thought Milgram's Cascade was ugly as sin (by the way, what's so ugly about some sins?) but the damn thing did exploit rule loopholes and stir up the sailing community.

I know Flying Scots are stable practical and popular boats but you must love them to sail them.

#52 SemiSalt

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:07 PM

Bill designed two models for Bayliner. Bill was friends with Oran Edson who owned Bayliner at the time and I suspect Edson threw box of money at Bill and Bill caved.


The Buccaneer 300 is written up in his first book Yacht Designs. One of them showed up here a few years ago. It has a huge volume for a 30-footer. I can't say I thought it looked good, but partly that was because it was in poor condition.

#53 boomer

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:20 PM

There was a very lovely, down to earth and athletic young lady in Liberty Bay Marina for a while with Buccaneer 300, moored next to us. She bought it for a live-a-board, loved that boat she did and kept her clean and spotless inside and out. She even compounded and polished the hull. Probably one of the cleanest kept boats in the marina, and at that marina you had to have a well maintained boat...no derelicts allowed. The power-boaters thought her boat was beautiful, I thought it was beautifully maintained....I'd watch the sail-boaters walk by and shake their head, if she wasn't around.

#54 Tom Ray

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:42 PM


This is not ugly? I actually like the design in some ways and might even own one, but damn. That's UGLY. (Bolger Fiddler II)

Posted Image


I keep looking at that raggedy "sheer line" and thinking 'no way Phil drew it like that'... And then it hit me: For fuck's sake Tom, you've got us debating the aesthetics of a paper model cut out (presumably?) from the cartoon and taped together (the first clue was the tape on the corner of the windows....) and then plunked down in the back garden for the photo shoot.....


Hah! You're right! I had not noticed, but did think it a bit off somehow. I just saw the design in 30 Odd Boats and searched for an image, found one that looked kinda like the boat in the book.

I still think that if you built the boat as drawn, you would have an ugly boat. Not one I would not own, mind you, but an ugly boat. However, I agree that this model is hardly proof and if you come this way I'll pay up on that harbor cruise. ;)

#55 Tom Ray

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:48 PM

If we're gonna debate "ugly" lets at least use a real build. How about "Watervan"? But no sayin its "ugly" till you spent at least a night aboard. Preferably on a hot summer night (even better with some hotties) so you can test out the ventilation:

http://www.google.co...29,r:2,s:0,i:79

Lots of pics of Watervan here, at the top of the page, followed by a rather great collection of other Bolger works (full disclosure, one is a build of mine):

http://www.google.co....w=1024&bih=537


Sorry, I can't wait that long. Watervan is ugly. I want one. With air conditioning.

Which of those images is yours?

#56 SemiSalt

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:48 PM

I'd watch the sail-boaters walk by and shake their head, if she wasn't around.


I thought I had taken a picture of the one here, but I can't find it. This pic is off the web.

Attached File  buccaneer_305_photo.jpg   56.22K   85 downloads

The book calls it the Buccaneer 300 and on the web it's called the 305. Same boat, I'm pretty sure.

#57 Anomaly2

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:54 PM

However, I agree that this model is hardly proof and if you come this way I'll pay up on that harbor cruise. ;)


Hey everybody, Tom's buying! Can you spell roadtrip? How many CA'ers wanna go down to Florida in, say, February?

#58 Anomaly2

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:59 PM

Sorry, I can't wait that long. Watervan is ugly. I want one. With air conditioning.

Which of those images is yours?


Watervan? Really? I'd of put you down for a SuperBrick. With or without AC.

There's a pic of the Tennessee I used to own..... Pic shows it in modified form. After a while I modified it for liveaboard use by cutting the original house off and turning it into what I think looks like an English lake boat. Sort of.....

#59 boomer

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:01 PM


I'd watch the sail-boaters walk by and shake their head, if she wasn't around.


I thought I had taken a picture of the one here, but I can't find it. This pic is off the web.

Attached File  buccaneer_305_photo.jpg   56.22K   85 downloads

The book calls it the Buccaneer 300 and on the web it's called the 305. Same boat, I'm pretty sure.


That's it...I knew what you meant....I was sad to see that young lady go when she finally got moorage closer to her work...one of those types that would brighten up your day with just a smile and the bounce of her step...and no, I'm not talking about tits bouncing.

#60 Trickypig

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:01 PM

Ok how about Trekka? If John Guzzwell hadn't sailed her around the world and given us all dreams, we would probably regard that Laurent Giles reverse shear as ugly..

Attached Files



#61 boomer

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:02 PM


However, I agree that this model is hardly proof and if you come this way I'll pay up on that harbor cruise. ;)


Hey everybody, Tom's buying! Can you spell roadtrip? How many CA'ers wanna go down to Florida in, say, February?


How about Hawaii? :)

Actually you set the date and time, I'm up to flying down....

I don't drink anymore...but I don't drink any less. B)

#62 boomer

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:06 PM

Ok how about Trekka? If John Guzzwell hadn't sailed her around the world and given us all dreams, we would probably regard that Laurent Giles reverse shear as ugly..


To tell the truth... I always liked Trekka, not that I was a fan of reverse sheer....I thought of her as a plucky little bulldog of a boat.

#63 Alpha FB

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:13 PM


Ok how about Trekka? If John Guzzwell hadn't sailed her around the world and given us all dreams, we would probably regard that Laurent Giles reverse shear as ugly..


To tell the truth... I always liked Trekka, not that I was a fan of reverse sheer....I thought of her as a plucky little bulldog of a boat.


I remember reading about Trekka in Eric Hiscock's classic Cruising Under Sail - never realised she was still around! And looking in very good nick too - anybody know her recent history?

#64 Tom Ray

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:21 PM


However, I agree that this model is hardly proof and if you come this way I'll pay up on that harbor cruise. ;)


Hey everybody, Tom's buying! Can you spell roadtrip? How many CA'ers wanna go down to Florida in, say, February?


Charlotte Harbor Regatta is the first weekend in February. I think I have already agreed to do two conflicting things that weekend. Why not add a third?

Watervan? Really? I'd of put you down for a SuperBrick. With or without AC.

There's a pic of the Tennessee I used to own..... Pic shows it in modified form. After a while I modified it for liveaboard use by cutting the original house off and turning it into what I think looks like an English lake boat. Sort of.....


Yeah, I'd take a SuperBrick too. A much shorter list would probably be "boats Tom does not want." ;)

#65 boomer

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:21 PM



Ok how about Trekka? If John Guzzwell hadn't sailed her around the world and given us all dreams, we would probably regard that Laurent Giles reverse shear as ugly..


To tell the truth... I always liked Trekka, not that I was a fan of reverse sheer....I thought of her as a plucky little bulldog of a boat.


I remember reading about Trekka in Eric Hiscock's classic Cruising Under Sail - never realised she was still around! And looking in very good nick too - anybody know her recent history?


She's at the Maritime Museum in Victoria....thought she was in the museum, not in the water.

http://mmbc.bc.ca/ex...fleet-2/trekka/

http://mmbc.bc.ca/ex...fleet-2/trekka/

#66 ronin

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:49 PM

Ok how about Trekka? If John Guzzwell hadn't sailed her around the world and given us all dreams, we would probably regard that Laurent Giles reverse shear as ugly..


this brings up an interesting point. where is the line between ugly and not? being ugly begins with the visual sense. I think on that much we can agree. also, anyone has the right to think that something may be visually ugly to him or her. but where does the line begin where the function, performance, success or whatever of an object suddenly makes it no longer ugly, or even attractive? for example, I've been seeing the for-sale ad in 48 North for Trekka's sistership for what seems like an eternity with the hidden intent on the sale apparently implying "please buy me based on a connection to detached accomplishments." of course that's an opinion created by my own personal filter and projections, but I think the question is valid, and for me quite interesting

#67 Bob Perry

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 10:01 PM

I always loved the look of Trekka. It goes back to the MYTH Of MALHAM look. And the MYTH is one of my all time fav boats. Nothing wrong with reverse sheer.

#68 Jose Carumba

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 10:30 PM

Don't forget the Reinell 26, another boat built by power boat builders back in the '70s gas shortage days. There was one moored next to me once and for some reason I pushed aaginst the hull with my foot and it deflected about an inch or so. In the picture below note how the hull has sagged around the keel. The keels were only about 18" deep and very wide so they could get headroom below by putting the sole down in the keel. They sailed like crap.

Attached File  Reinell 26.png   68.27K   103 downloads

Attached File  r26 bottom.jpg   108.73K   83 downloads

#69 Ishmael

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 10:39 PM

There is one of these on our dock. It never moves.

Attached File  buccaneer_320_photo.jpg   56.33K   476 downloads

Attached File  buccaneer_325_drawing.jpg   83.5K   362 downloads

#70 boomer

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 10:43 PM

I always loved the look of Trekka. It goes back to the MYTH Of MALHAM look. And the MYTH is one of my all time fav boats. Nothing wrong with reverse sheer.


I always liked her, as well as the M.O.M, though not being a great fan of reverse sheer. The 40' reverse sheer design in Arther Beiser's "The Proper Yacht" was another interesting design, think it was a Bruce King design. There was another very similar 40' reverse sheer at the Port of Poulsbo marina back in the mid to late '70's, could still be there AFAIK, think it was a Bruce King design as well, I could be wrong on that though.

#71 bljones

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 10:45 PM

BLJ:
OK, I think I get it.

Maybe the best analogy I can offer is automotive. The original air-cooled VW beetle is ugly. but it's ugliness is a direct result of the necessities of the design spec, and every aspect of the vehicle is inlcuded only if it moves the vehicle toward successful completion of the design brief. As the DDB-crafted ad from 1969 proclaimed, "it's ugly, but it gets you there."
The New Beetle is fugly. it is an ill-conceived package that, instead of reflecting the underlying design, obscures the mechanicals and hampers maintenance and enjoyment rather than enhancing it and becomes parody rather than homage.

#72 boomer

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 10:51 PM

I always thought the original VW bugs were cute, and not in an ugly way.

#73 slap

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:00 PM

Don't forget the Reinell 26, another boat built by power boat builders back in the '70s gas shortage days. There was one moored next to me once and for some reason I pushed aaginst the hull with my foot and it deflected about an inch or so. In the picture below note how the hull has sagged around the keel. The keels were only about 18" deep and very wide so they could get headroom below by putting the sole down in the keel. They sailed like crap.

Attached File  Reinell 26.png   68.27K   103 downloads

Attached File  r26 bottom.jpg   108.73K   83 downloads


There was one at the boatyard where I kept my boat. The rigging was grossly undersized - it looked like what you would find on a 16 foot boat. But the owner, who was retired, sailed it almost every day.

#74 Tom Ray

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:25 PM

There is one of these on our dock. It never moves.

Attached File  buccaneer_320_photo.jpg   56.33K   476 downloads

Attached File  buccaneer_325_drawing.jpg   83.5K   362 downloads


Put three babes and a spinnaker bag on the bow and sailors will buy anything!

#75 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:29 PM

I think the best thing about homely boats that don't sail well is that they are often an inexpensive way to get someone started.

Friend of mines first boat was a Mac 26X. We didn't ridicule him but suggested that there might be better options if sailing was his plan. After 3 seasons of "cruising" the Mac, he went to the Naptown show and bought a Bavaria 36. He got lots of calls when he listed the Mac and sold it faster than any "real" sailboat I've sold. He and his bride are planning to cruise the Bavaria up and down the East coast in retirement. I'm glad we encouraged him in his misguided start.

#76 Tom Ray

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:29 AM

Ugly boats are not all slow.

I'd like to nominate this boat as a particularly ugly one. That's me driving and my co-owner trimming, so obviously I liked the boat well enough to buy it. In fact, I thought it was genius the moment I first saw it and it is still one of my all time favorite boats.

Still ugly. Even uglier on its trailer, but I'll spare you any of those pictures.

Posted Image

#77 Tom Ray

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:33 AM

He got lots of calls when he listed the Mac and sold it faster than any "real" sailboat I've sold.


Selling Mac X or M boats is not work. Easiest sales job ever. Almost. His 19 foot powersailer is even easier, if you can find one to sell.

All the real MacGregor sailboats sell about like sailboats. Slowly. ;)

#78 Salazar

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:08 AM

This was at our club a few years ago. I'm pretty sure it was a Bayliner. I know the powerboat to the right is.

Posted Image

#79 Tom Ray

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:08 AM

Posted Image

#80 Salazar

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:12 AM

Posted Image

#81 Ishmael

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:20 AM

Posted Image


Ohhh, that's harsh. :lol:

#82 kdh

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:22 AM


The boat looks a bit rougher in a few details, but my opinion is that they are both darn ugly.


I'll take that as a gracious concession- Just let me know when to come down for the boozecruise. Or, you come up here and supply the booze and I'll supply the boat(s). Hell, we could probably even get KD to join us if he's not busy marrying Courtney offf (or perusing those odd photo libraries that only he seems to have access to).

I'm in.

#83 Salazar

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:28 AM


Posted Image


Ohhh, that's harsh. :lol:


I'm just trying to lure Ed back here. He's a funny guy. B) http://ncc1701a.blogspot.ca/

#84 Bob Perry

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:49 AM

You'd have to look pretty hard to find any ugly IOR boats. Of course there were a few but in general that rule made for some pretty boats with highly interesting shapes.

#85 R Booze

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:52 AM



This is not ugly? I actually like the design in some ways and might even own one, but damn. That's UGLY. (Bolger Fiddler II)

Posted Image


It looks like one of the shuttles used in the original Star Trek. Just add in the the side "torpedos", and off you go....


You nailed it! The guy that designed the Star Trek Shuttle was a car designer back in the day.

Same guy that designed the Ford Econoline pickup.


Duuuuude, I had one of those----with the corner windows in it as well. One of the most funnest trucks I've ever owned. Lil' 170 six in her, three on a tree, noisier than a 727. Made a wooded camper shell for it (think T-111, redwood drip cap, ix4 rough sawn cedar, two Plexi windows). Drove the shit out her up and down Baja a few times. Last trip down there with her (with my hot little blond/blue sex dwarf surfr chick) threw her on the ferry in La Paz and floated her across to Vallarta. Surfed all over the place on the mainland for another couple of weeks, then drove her back home via Guaymas, Hermosillo and Nogales. Twas a trip most excellent----except for a couple of things. On the ferry ride my gal befriended two 'Earth People' in the bar. Stacey eventually invited them to to spend the night in our cabin---which I reluctantly agreed to, despite being hornier than hell. Any ways around midnite the gal starts undressing and getting ready for bed. I peak over and what do I see strapped to her stomach and back? About three pounds of pot and 'shrooms. Fuk I was pissed (even though I had two grams of coke stashed in my truck down in the hold). Anyways my paranoia was unfounded and we got to Vallarta without getting in trouble---and had an absolute blast.

Fast forward another week though---we're camping out in a little trailer park north of Mazatlan, having some beers, watching the sunset and getting ready to chop up a couple of big lines on the front seat----when lo & behold three Federales come flying into the park, kicking up rocks and dust an definitely on a hunt. They headed our way, and in a bit of panic I dropped the vial into the big round hole that was behind the missing sun visor, turned around, smiled and waved at them. They never acknowledged us and they went further south to another RV. I breathed a huge sigh of relief and at thr same time was really hoping that the hole in the door pillar was channeled off. Unfortunately (as I found out the next morning) the pillar was pretty much hollow....all the way to the floor pan. Jfc was I pissed. Like really pissed. A couple of days later at another park further north, i ended up borrowing a 3/8 drill, some bits and a cold chisel----where I commenced to tearing up a hole the size of Rhode Island before I could finally reach my 'medicine'. Gawd damn, what circle jerk that turned out to be.....,

#86 bljones

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:03 AM

Booth, who the hell smuggles shit INTO mexico?
That's like smurfing quad-stepped coke into cartagena.

#87 Anomaly2

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:41 AM


I'll take that as a gracious concession- Just let me know when to come down for the boozecruise. Or, you come up here and supply the booze and I'll supply the boat(s). Hell, we could probably even get KD to join us if he's not busy marrying Courtney offf (or perusing those odd photo libraries that only he seems to have access to).

I'm in.


Jeezus KD, pay attention would ya? We're going to Florida! Can you get that Pontiac wagon your folks used to have? Unless we're going to Hawaii--- Boomer sort of offered to spring for the trip over there. At least I think he did. It got kinda confusing there for a while. I'm fine with "just" Florida-- Tom appears to have a neat guest cabin already arranged.... Seems like a nice guy.

#88 sculpin

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:00 AM

Hey, if you are going to combine slagging Star Trek with boats you can not count out the Footprint pontoon boat. An unholy melding of pontoon boat, pop-up travel trailer, and Trek shuttle...Attached File  footprint.JPG   45.87K   173 downloads

Saw it at the Toronto boat show last winter, was speechless!

I'm sure though that it does what it is supposed to do, and meets the design criteria.

#89 Tom Ray

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:43 AM

Hey, if you are going to combine slagging Star Trek with boats you can not count out the Footprint pontoon boat. An unholy melding of pontoon boat, pop-up travel trailer, and Trek shuttle...Attached File  footprint.JPG   45.87K   173 downloads

Saw it at the Toronto boat show last winter, was speechless!

I'm sure though that it does what it is supposed to do, and meets the design criteria.


It looks to me like it could carry a fleet of fun boats and an air conditioner. What more could anyone ask of a boat? Rodholders, I suppose, but it could carry those too!

#90 greeng

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:51 AM

You'd have to look pretty hard to find any ugly IOR boats. Of course there were a few but in general that rule made for some pretty boats with highly interesting shapes.


Hmm... While I'm in no position to disagree with Bob Freakin Perry My boat is IOR specific and while I love her (and spend silly amounts of money with the sole purpose of embarrassing "pretty" boat owners), she's not everyone's cuppa joe.

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#91 sparau

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:56 AM

Manitou 32' CC ketch? Seems to fit the bill as a starter boat, generally ~40% less than other comparible length cruisers and arguably fails (well, probably not much argument) in the practicality department.

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#92 bljones

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:19 AM

I'm sure though that it does what it is supposed to do, and meets the design criteria.

I'm not so sure it does, sculp.

As I wrote here:
http://docksixchroni...rt-one-old.html

" My first impression was that it was the answer to a question nobody asked. Then I sorta- kinda reconsidered. Perhaps there is a place in the market for a modular pontoon boat with more amenities than the typical deck boat, without the windage and bulk of a pontoon- hulled houseboat. Hell, it has worked for VW with their Westfalia campers for over 5 decades, in a marketplace flooded with fifth wheel trailers and big-ass Winnebagos. I can see the benefits from a manufacturing and customization standpoint as well. One basic platform can be configured as a camper, or with a different module behind the pilothouse, a floating site office, bunkhouse, forward control barge, or mobile hunting camp with storage for an ATV or two.

Some details left me scratching my head, though. What is with all of the non-skid glued to the VERTICAL surfaces?
The raceway for the O/B controls is household ABS drain pipe, and the wiring conduit is, er, conduit.
The kettle grille, seen above, is less than a foot away from the non-removable canvas and vinyl wall of the accomodations pod. Besides being a fire hazard, having to barbecue through a window, over a countertop, might get old quick.

The pilothouse doesn't seem well thought out. The roof is retractable, which is great for making the space feel open and airy, but the really big windows are all fixed. A big greenhouse with no cross-flow ventilation. That's gonna get warm and stale, topless or not.
The helm is fully forward, putting all of the guests and crew aft of the helmsman. This means that the helmsman is not able to interact with guests easily, and more importantly, with the only access to the exterior of the boat at the aft end of the house, the helmsman can't dock singlehanded, and can't easily communicate with crew during docking.
The cabin is out of commission when closed. All of it. Including the head. And the galley. So, you either have to pop the top and fold out the pop-outs when you embark, or you and your guests pee over the side and eat what you can keep handy in the pilothouse until you get to your destination and open up the cabin.

Finally, there is no way to access the stern of the boat with the cabin opened up. Got engine trouble? Gotta close everything up, walk back, realize you need your tools inside the cabin, walk forward, open up the cabin, grab your tools, close up the cabin, walk back ... Maybe more importantly, it means that some of the most useful real estate on the boat is out of bounds. You can't hang propane bottles, store a generator or install a swim ladder/ platform because all of it is inaccessible."Yeah, I spent a lot of time poking around and writing about this design, more than i spent on the Hanse 445 on display, because the Footprint was an intriguing design. The Hanse, not so much.
I think it was Peter Egan who coined the phrase "UJM- Universal Japanese Motorcycle" a couple of decades abck to describe the ubiquitous CB 750/ Seca 650/GS 750/ KZ 750 plain wrapper white bread motorcycles of the 70s and early 80s. So many boats are like that, that when something off the reservation shows up, I hope it is an improvement. Sadly I'm not sure the Footprint is.

#93 bljones

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:26 AM

sparau, i posit that that boat might be better looking without the damn astrodome- sized dodger installed. Before i get all jeremy clarkson and move it from the "uncool" to "seriously uncool" wall, I gotta ask- what is the dealio with the cowlvents and dorades- are they permanently oriented at right angles to each other? Other questions come to mindf, but let's start with the creampuffs.

#94 boomer

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:37 AM

Unless we're going to Hawaii--- Boomer sort of offered to spring for the trip over there.


:blink:

So in return, your springing for my flight to Florida? ^_^

#95 Soņadora

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:08 AM

Yorktown 33

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whenever I say 'Yorktown' in the context of these boats, there seems to be extra emphasis on the 'ork' part.

Like the sound a cat makes when it coughs up a hairball.

#96 bljones

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:17 AM

I dunno, you squint and it is sorta cherubiniesque, sons.
Frankly, i think it is the little things on that design ,like laying out the ports on the same sightline, that would take it from ugliness to girl-next-door, nothing really freaky but at least regular bumping of the uglies.

But, I am of course not a naval architect or a navel anarchist, for that matter, and, more importantly for the purposes of this thread, just a guy who loves boats.

#97 Paps

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:56 AM

What is with those windows on the aft cockpit??

#98 Dale dug a hole

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:15 AM

Unless we're going to Hawaii--- Boomer sort of offered to spring for the trip over there.


:blink:

So in return, your springing for my flight to Florida? ^_^

What, in the US that would be, what a $50 flight. Shit I'm in for $10

#99 Bob Perry

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:53 PM

I'm with you on that Yorktown Rick. I never could figure those poor boats out. But it truly is a classic ugly.

Greeng:
Nothing wrong with the looks of your boat. It's a mite plain but the overall lines work for me.

Booth:
My mother says I can't hang out with you anymore. You're a bad influence.

#100 SemiSalt

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:26 PM

My boat is IOR specific and while I love her (and spend silly amounts of money with the sole purpose of embarrassing "pretty" boat owners), she's not everyone's cuppa joe.


The smaller Ton Cups inspired a several manufacturers to optimize an existing hull for the rule. Some of them, like you Cal, turned out looking....awkward. There is this one credited to S&S. I'm not sure if it was a 1/2 tonner from the get-go, or an adaptation.

Attached File  d_m_22_sail_boat_quarter_ton_ior_design_for_3_500_19873759.jpg   11.51K   256 downloadsAttached File  d_m_22_sail_boat_quarter_ton_ior_design_for_3_500_19873760.jpg   10.78K   220 downloads

Quarter Tonners started out at about 22'. On the S&S website, they have the plan for a 27-footer, which was really pretty and probably twice as expensive. Also, probably slow for a 27-footer.




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