45 replies to this topic

[Dude]

Would they be a good boat for US West Coast offshore races?

[williwaw]

they have a rating problem in about every rule

[Left Hook]

How would a 42 fall in the local rating breaks? Kinda difficult to put a 42 boat into a division of bigger, faster boats and expect to do well.

[walterbshaffer]

Weren't they were designed to be buoy racers and so probably not perfectly suited to the kinds of reaching courses So Cal has? I suppose you could ask for a significant difference in the course type ratings, but.....

Are there any PHRF rated in the US? The 2012 handicap book does not show any.

ORC would probably whack 'em pretty hard.

[Q Ball]

The GP 42 Stray Dog races on the Chesapeake Bay (Annapolis, Md.), it rates -42 in PHRF and 1.246 in IRC

Here's a link to the IRC ECC's held in Annapolis where she was racing in IRC 1 with TP52's, Farr 400's, a Ker 40, Carkeek 40, and an Mc38, looks like they struggled a bit.

[opusone]

The GP 42 Stray Dog races on the Chesapeake Bay (Annapolis, Md.), it rates -42 in PHRF and 1.246 in IRC

Here's a link to the IRC ECC's held in Annapolis where she was racing in IRC 1 with TP52's, Farr 400's, a Ker 40, Carkeek 40, and an Mc38, looks like they struggled a bit.

How would the Lutra 42 "Big Booty", ex "Seawolf" do against the GP 42 and others. Are the 42's offshore capable (ie. water proof below) as some of the 52's here on the west coast are quite wet below when going offshore.

Thanks,

Opusone

[Yogurt]

They are better offshore than W/L. IRC has been friendly to them over the past 2 years dropping around 20points.

Weak points
- upwind above 22kn TWS
- Square running in 10 to 14kn TWS

Anything reaching they are demons.

The one in Fremantle Aus has won almost every race and regatta rating at 1.229 I think

[jnow]

I sailed on a GP 42 with a custom prod and masthead asym. Not sure about how it rated and didn't race with them more than a handful of times. But holy hell that boat was a blast on a reach.

[walterbshaffer]

They are better offshore than W/L. IRC has been friendly to them over the past 2 years dropping around 20points.

Weak points
- upwind above 22kn TWS
- Square running in 10 to 14kn TWS

Anything reaching they are demons.

The one in Fremantle Aus has won almost every race and regatta rating at 1.229 I think

I sailed on a GP 42 with a custom prod and masthead asym. Not sure about how it rated and didn't race with them more than a handful of times. But holy hell that boat was a blast on a reach.

Well then I stand corrected!

[mr_ryano]

Would they be a good boat for US West Coast offshore races?

Light to medium air reaching, the boat should be 10% faster than a MH Farr 40. They will be wetter, and will have many of the same leakage issues below as a 52 since many of the control lines run below deck. You'll have fun, unless you're the bailer dude. Price should be pretty good on a GP42 these days. What boat are you looking at?

[Dude]

Would they be a good boat for US West Coast offshore races?

Light to medium air reaching, the boat should be 10% faster than a MH Farr 40. They will be wetter, and will have many of the same leakage issues below as a 52 since many of the control lines run below deck. You'll have fun, unless you're the bailer dude. Price should be pretty good on a GP42 these days. What boat are you looking at?

Ryano,
Opusone gave me a ton of good advice and brought up the same fact about the boat being wet and what to look for. I was wondering which boats would a GP 42 be racing against in Trans Pac and Cabo's? Would it be with the SC 52 & J 125 or would it be bumped up with the TP 52's?

@Yogurt & Jnow Thanks good info.

[Loco.]

If I don't go down in size or go to OD, I fancy one of these as the next ride..... Rating will hurt though!

[speedless]

Yeah Baby in Sydney sails at 1.236. It's modified for IRC. It's awesome downhill- ridiculously so, but by far the wettest boat offshore (inside) that I've ever sailed on.

[williwaw]

For almost the same amount you buy a TP52

[Matt B]

For almost the same amount you buy a TP52

Asking prices on these boats are just that. They are only worth what somebody will pay for them. I would start with an offer of 50% asking for the 42's, while the 52's will sell for a little more (60-75% depending on the boat and what has been done to it). Not to mention the cost on the back end. A main for a 52 is near double that of of the 42. This will be the case with most of the sails, cost of upkeep and crew logistics.
They are very different horses when it comes to sailing budgets.

[Dude]

For almost the same amount you buy a TP52

Asking prices on these boats are just that. They are only worth what somebody will pay for them. I would start with an offer of 50% asking for the 42's, while the 52's will sell for a little more (60-75% depending on the boat and what has been done to it). Not to mention the cost on the back end. A main for a 52 is near double that of of the 42. This will be the case with most of the sails, cost of upkeep and crew logistics.
They are very different horses when it comes to sailing budgets.

@Matt Thanks good info,
I have a good idea about the difference between asking prices and selling prices. I lean towards the theory of finding the best boat and making a fair offer. What I am looking for are comments from people that have sailed these boats and how they will fit in to the U.S. West Coast rating brakes in point to point races.

[Dude]

Still looking for more race results of GP 42 in the states and if someone knows an owner of one of these boat please PM me.

[Heriberto]

If you go to the HPR website, you will find results for one racing East Coast Championship Annapolis this year.

[Flying Wasp]

Check for 'Sue' which was a Chicago based GP 42 that did a lot of racing from 2004 - 2007/8? Chi-Mac Race, NOODs, Verve Cup. lmsrf.org should be where you can find the fleet results.

She was renamed 'Convictus Maximus' and under that name I believe she's done at least 1 Newport Bermuda Race in 2010.

Hope that helps.

[Christian]

Sue (now CM) was/is not a GP42 - it was the Farr loosing bet for the NYYC Club42 that they tried to sell as an IRC42 boat

[mr_ryano]

Would they be a good boat for US West Coast offshore races?

Light to medium air reaching, the boat should be 10% faster than a MH Farr 40. They will be wetter, and will have many of the same leakage issues below as a 52 since many of the control lines run below deck. You'll have fun, unless you're the bailer dude. Price should be pretty good on a GP42 these days. What boat are you looking at?

Ryano,
Opusone gave me a ton of good advice and brought up the same fact about the boat being wet and what to look for. I was wondering which boats would a GP 42 be racing against in Trans Pac and Cabo's? Would it be with the SC 52 & J 125 or would it be bumped up with the TP 52's?

@Yogurt & Jnow Thanks good info.

Good question. As far as I know, the 2 GP42's here haven't been rated in ORR or PHRF. If you're out earthing, Big Booty is a Lutra 42 (not quite a GP 42, and an early vision of what a 42 should be) based out of Charleston. There is also Stray Dog, a "real" GP42 based out of Annapolis. If I had to guess, you'd likely be put where they put the R/P 45.

If you're looking for a rating to win with, it seems hard to beat a J-125 for racing in Cali. If you want a faster, more athletic boat, then have a look at the 42. Also, if you are thinking of working up to a 52, the 42 will give you much better OJT

[Heriberto]

East Coast Champ HPR/IRC results this fall for Straw Dog (B&C GP42) are available here. You can read between the lines that with this rating they were solid mid-fleet against the boats below, especially if they had started the last race.

Under HPR, it rates slightly slower than a Carkeek 40 and slightly faster than a Ker 40, M38 or Farr 400. Don't know the boat but it looks like good company.

HPR Calculator V3c IRC East Coast 2012.xls

[Left Hook]

For some context in my experience the Stray Dog folks sail clean, fast, tactically solid races so that's a minimal factor in their general results.

[Dude]

Prospect and I are going to look at the Lutra 42 this Wednesday. She reads to be a very good boat for the west coast point to point. Got to give a shout out to Opusone for telling me about this boat. Anyone race with of against the Lutra "Big Booty"??

[Gorn FRANTIC!!]

Fuck me...she draws a fair bit for a 42ft yacht...

[viva la figa]

They are better offshore than W/L. IRC has been friendly to them over the past 2 years dropping around 20points.

Weak points
- upwind above 22kn TWS
- Square running in 10 to 14kn TWS

Anything reaching they are demons.

The one in Fremantle Aus has won almost every race and regatta rating at 1.229 I think

Go the Black Betty!!!!

[mr_ryano]

Prospect and I are going to look at the Lutra 42 this Wednesday. She reads to be a very good boat for the west coast point to point. Got to give a shout out to Opusone for telling me about this boat. Anyone race with of against the Lutra "Big Booty"??

Crew gear was the best part of that program. Let us know if your S/O makes you change the name.

[Left Hook]

Prospect and I are going to look at the Lutra 42 this Wednesday. She reads to be a very good boat for the west coast point to point. Got to give a shout out to Opusone for telling me about this boat. Anyone race with of against the Lutra "Big Booty"??

Crew gear was the best part of that program. Let us know if your S/O makes you change the name.

Big booty logo stickers on the asses of the girls doing nude bullriding in key west this past winter.... gotta love it...

[Delta Dog]

Would they be a good boat for US West Coast offshore races?

Light to medium air reaching, the boat should be 10% faster than a MH Farr 40. They will be wetter, and will have many of the same leakage issues below as a 52 since many of the control lines run below deck. You'll have fun, unless you're the bailer dude. Price should be pretty good on a GP42 these days. What boat are you looking at?

Reaching really is not the Farr 40's strong suit...way too little form stability makes them too tender to reach well. But in So Cal, a Farr 40 is now a very solid one design fleet...this is a big plus in my book in terms of quality of racing. I keep wondering why we don't see some kind of Farr 40 resergence on the bay area - the boat seems to handle the bay quite nicely and operate on a very different financial footprint than a TP50.

[facthunt]

theres one over here it strugles in light air but certianly irc competetive in presure.

[echo]

Prospect and I are going to look at the Lutra 42 this Wednesday. She reads to be a very good boat for the west coast point to point. Got to give a shout out to Opusone for telling me about this boat. Anyone race with of against the Lutra "Big Booty"??

We do on our 36.7. Yes, we are in the same fleet. (PHRF of 78 vs. a minus something) We see them at the start but that is about it. I know it is very well taken care of and the owner spared no expense.

[Dude]

Prospect and I are going to look at the Lutra 42 this Wednesday. She reads to be a very good boat for the west coast point to point. Got to give a shout out to Opusone for telling me about this boat. Anyone race with of against the Lutra "Big Booty"??

We do on our 36.7. Yes, we are in the same fleet. (PHRF of 78 vs. a minus something) We see them at the start but that is about it. I know it is very well taken care of and the owner spared no expense.

Good info, Thank you.

[Left Hook]

Believe that Big Booty had some keel work done between 1 and 2 years ago. It's somewhat hazy but if memory serves they added lead to the bulb?

[Heriberto]

Jesus Christ Left, why do you continually spread rumors about shit that you know jack squat about? Just shut your pie hole and speak when you actually fucking KNOW something. You "believe this" "it's hazy" "if memory serves" and then a quesion mark (GOOD FUCKING GRIEF!). Is that like the debunked Carbonado keel crap you were parroting from some moron in a bar that worked out to be bullshit too?

Here's another: I heard you fucked goats, so when did you stop?

[some dude]

Jesus Christ Left, why do you continually spread rumors about shit that you know jack squat about? Just shut your pie hole and speak when you actually fucking KNOW something. You "believe this" "it's hazy" "if memory serves" and then a quesion mark (GOOD FUCKING GRIEF!). Is that like the debunked Carbonado keel crap you were parroting from some moron in a bar that worked out to be bullshit too?

Here's another: I heard you fucked goats, so when did you stop?

musta touched a nerve

[Left Hook]

Jesus Christ Left, why do you continually spread rumors about shit that you know jack squat about? Just shut your pie hole and speak when you actually fucking KNOW something. You "believe this" "it's hazy" "if memory serves" and then a quesion mark (GOOD FUCKING GRIEF!). Is that like the debunked Carbonado keel crap you were parroting from some moron in a bar that worked out to be bullshit too?

Here's another: I heard you fucked goats, so when did you stop?

or maybe a friend of mine works on it and showed me photos of the job, the details of which illuded me. For someone who gets incensed by people who "spread rumors they know jack shit about" you really like to spread rumors about things you know jack shit about.

[Heriberto]

"Or maybe", here we go again. Did they or didn't they? What details "illuded" you? If you dont know the details, maybe what you think you are saying isn't even true. Do you even know what you are talking about? Did your friend?

Sorry if I was harsh, i apologize for that, but this is actually helpful advice I'm trying to give you. The people involved in these programs probably aren't pleased to hear uninformed innuendos, rumors and half-truths spread about their programs.

If it touched a nerve its because I've seen it happen to so many people that I respect that their boat and/or reputation gets slagged by people on SA who it worked out didn't have a single clue what the fuck they were talking about. I don't know this program at all, but I recognize baloney when I see it.

If you have some info, with details which haven't "illuded" you, specific enough to pass the smell test, then fine. Share. Just letting you know your credibility after the Carbonado rumor incident, where they slapped it down convincingly, isn't that great. That didn't help you when you spread more unspecified rumors about yet another keel.

[Left Hook]

Heriberto,

Before you threw yourself off the deep end in chastising someone you've never met did you catch that Dude here is a yacht broker investigating a boat for an owner? Did you realize I was tipping him off about work that was done so he could find out more for himself? Did you realize that the details you're looking for may constitute the very things you're suggesting I not share and aren't up here for just that reason? Probably not. You just saw an opportunity to make yourself into a contradiction and you jumped at it without thinking.

Why are you a contradiction? Because giving "Help" and "Advice" about the dangers of needlessly slinging shit while needlessly slinging shit makes you about as believable as Clinton swearing he didn't get his rocks off in an interns pie hole. Even better is that, as the proud owner of a donovan 30 (oooh), you have exactly zero context for the discussion at hand as it is!

Go back to studying rocks for a living, they're just as useful, intelligent and helpful as you are.

PS: Your bullshit detector is fucked. I recommend high velocity transcortical lead therapy to fix it.

Edit: If you want to continue this discussion then you have my email. Discuss this in private like normal adults rather than starting fights in public.

[hobot]

Heriberto, give it up, Wesley's already forgotten more than you and I will ever know.

[Matt B]

Before you threw yourself off the deep end in chastising someone you've never met did you catch that Dude here is a yacht broker investigating a boat for an owner? Did you realize I was tipping him off about work that was done so he could find out more for himself? Did you realize that the details you're looking for may constitute the very things you're suggesting I not share and aren't up here for just that reason? Probably not. You just saw an opportunity to make yourself into a contradiction and you jumped at it without thinking.

Why are you a contradiction? Because giving "Help" and "Advice" about the dangers of needlessly slinging shit while needlessly slinging shit makes you about as believable as Clinton swearing he didn't get his rocks off in an interns pie hole. Even better is that, as the proud owner of a donovan 30 (oooh), you have exactly zero context for the discussion at hand as it is!

Go back to studying rocks for a living, they're just as useful, intelligent and helpful as you are.

PS: Your bullshit detector is fucked. I recommend high velocity transcortical lead therapy to fix it.

Edit: If you want to continue this discussion then you have my email. Discuss this in private like normal adults rather than starting fights in public.

Wes,
I can't stand Herb, but he has a point. Just shut up. Keel work means nothing. So what you are saying is that they made the boat better by adding lead to the keel? Or are you saying that the keel was about to fall off, so they made it heavier?
Read your edit. You could have sent a PM to the Dude, that you are aware of the addition of the lead, rather than spew something you know nothing about on a public forum.
Spewing shit you heard from someone who heard it from someone elses sister who just heard it at the 31 flavors is really making you look like a tool. And you do it over and over.

[Heriberto]

Gee Left Coast,

Why didn't you post my address, phone number, social security number, wife and kid's name and everything else while you were at it? That's low buck even for you, which I guess is saying alot. But congratulations, you just graduated from minor annoyance to serious, deliberate, motherfucking douchebag with that comment and I will be sure not to forget it.

And for copying it, well, you should know better Jeff B, especially when you agree with me completely.

As for your "warning a yacht broker". What a steaming load of bullshit.

There are these things called "marine surveys", also "major repair or alteration disclosures". Most yacht brokers have heard of them. Cthulu help us if we need to rely on douchers on SA for heads up on major yacht purchases.

[Left Hook]

Looking for a fuck to give...

[Dude]

Believe that Big Booty had some keel work done between 1 and 2 years ago. It's somewhat hazy but if memory serves they added lead to the bulb?

Good information, For what it's worth I read your post in a positive manner. I understand the owner did some work to the keel in an effort to improve their IRC rating. We did the same thing to our J 109 for the big boat series.

@Heriberso It reads as if you took "left hook" posts as if he was reporting damage to the boat that he did not personally witness. This type of miss understanding happens quite often when using a forum format.

Overall this thread has been very productive, which is not the norm for SA forum posts. I would like to thank everyone who posted for staying on topic and helping me with my decision to go and look at the boat tomorrow.

[mr_ryano]

Believe that Big Booty had some keel work done between 1 and 2 years ago. It's somewhat hazy but if memory serves they added lead to the bulb?

Good information, For what it's worth I read your post in a positive manner. I understand the owner did some work to the keel in an effort to improve their IRC rating. We did the same thing to our J 109 for the big boat series.

@Heriberso It reads as if you took "left hook" posts as if he was reporting damage to the boat that he did not personally witness. This type of miss understanding happens quite often when using a forum format.

Overall this thread has been very productive, which is not the norm for SA forum posts. I would like to thank everyone who posted for staying on topic and helping me with my decision to go and look at the boat tomorrow.

So what did you think?

[opusone]

Believe that Big Booty had some keel work done between 1 and 2 years ago. It's somewhat hazy but if memory serves they added lead to the bulb?

Good information, For what it's worth I read your post in a positive manner. I understand the owner did some work to the keel in an effort to improve their IRC rating. We did the same thing to our J 109 for the big boat series.

@Heriberso It reads as if you took "left hook" posts as if he was reporting damage to the boat that he did not personally witness. This type of miss understanding happens quite often when using a forum format.

Overall this thread has been very productive, which is not the norm for SA forum posts. I would like to thank everyone who posted for staying on topic and helping me with my decision to go and look at the boat tomorrow.

So what did you think?

Seems like the first impressions were good.

How does the boat due under PHRF at -30? Knowing that So California has a 3 number system, where should the boat rate and why? How much faster is this boat than a Farr 400 rating -9/-15/-21?

Cheers,

opusone

[equivocator]

Keep in mind that the past two Cabo races have been windy and wet, so waterproofing the boat could be a major concern. A J/125 would avoid importation, shipping and conversion issues, the boats already have well-established and winning PHRF and Transpac ratings, and you won't be buying a pig in a poke, so it should be relatively easy to sell when the time comes. All these factors could be an issue with the GP42. Plus, the GP 42 might need to be beefed up structurally for offshore sailing, and the PHRF rating would be anyone's guess. Not to say that the GP 42 might not be a great boat, but there are a lot of unknown factors involved. On the other hand, this could be a pretty radical boat, especially in a big blow, which comes much oftener in the Coastal and Mexico races than in Transpac.