Jump to content


US Olympic Strategic Plans

What do you think

  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 Tcatman

Tcatman

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 984 posts

Posted 24 November 2012 - 07:27 PM

http://sailingteams....eview_Panel.htm

Well the review is now out...

What is the verdict.... Do they show any insight? wisdom? or is the situation hopeless and they are moving chairs on the Titanic?

#2 Ship o' Fools

Ship o' Fools

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 495 posts

Posted 24 November 2012 - 09:51 PM

Interesting - not surprising - how the panel is mostly from the East Coast/New York area. Either US Sailing is not aware there are people who actually sail on the West Coast or there is not much sailing on the West Coast and US Sailing should focus on bringing sailing to the West Coast. <sarcasm>

#3 bruno

bruno

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,811 posts

Posted 24 November 2012 - 11:46 PM

Recommendations seem solid, application will be the key, e.g. CISA does not list any Olympic classes regattas at their site. 1 question, if the better a class does in international competition/ranking then the more funding it gets, how do they propose to raise the competitive level of lower performing classes? Self funding? Or just vote them out of the games?

#4 Tcatman

Tcatman

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 984 posts

Posted 25 November 2012 - 01:47 PM

Well, US Olympic doubles down on the team approach with a core of 4 to 6 teams in each class. Moreover, they seem to empower class specific coaches to mold this team.

I understand the efficiency that such a program develops... but I question how the concentration of power in one coach will optimize the performance of any individual sailor or team. (god help the class if the coach is merely OK)

Seems to me that US Olympic envisions young sailors developing around the country under their personal coaches and then when they are ripe... they will be picked for the Olympic team and then study under the Svengali of coaches and gold will result........ hmmm.... not impressed!

I might have structured the program with a common core of Olympic coaches at the base of the pyramid and hire the appropriate individual coaches for the elite level going into the last year of the quad.


About Youth Development. I see lots of words... and little in an understanding of how to harness the current junior sailing programs and yacht clubs. Olympic class sailing... indeed any high performance saling (skiffs, cats, boards) is extremely rare at the adult level much less the junior level in the US... What changes with this strategic plan? How you change the culture is the key question.... and I see nothing but aspirational pie in the sky.

What is needed is US Olympic leadership and key funding that enrolls specific Yacht Clubs in a focused program.... NOT a top down managed program that looks like some other countries plan. (I may be too harsh at the moment... but I did not see the needed vision in the document)


could be worse tho.... look a the aussie post from Walrus on the first ISAF event down under... at least I am not that negative...
http://forums.sailin...howtopic=142303

#5 DoRag

DoRag

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,919 posts
  • Location:Where the sun doesn't shine.

Posted 25 November 2012 - 03:27 PM

Now, here's a real surprise:

"5. We failed to generate a performance edge (speed and technique) required to win an Olympic medal."

Did we need yet another US Sailing committee to conclude that?

#6 sunseeker

sunseeker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,353 posts

Posted 25 November 2012 - 04:32 PM

Now, here's a real surprise:

"5. We failed to generate a performance edge (speed and technique) required to win an Olympic medal."

Did we need yet another US Sailing committee to conclude that?


Reading between the lines they basically bitch slapped Brenner back into oblivion.

But yes mostly restating the obvious without much specific input. Generally not dealing with the reality that there isn't anyone really interested in Olympic sailing in the US. Kids are spoon fed sailing in low performance borrowed boats, kept on a really tight leash far too long.

The problem in the US isn't really talent, it is the attitude of the pretenders who we somehow let take control of the entire Youth system.

#7 jesposito

jesposito

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,537 posts
  • Location:somewhere where your not
  • Interests:cycling, skiing and depressing the competition on the race course

Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:08 PM

Interesting - not surprising - how the panel is mostly from the East Coast/New York area. Either US Sailing is not aware there are people who actually sail on the West Coast or there is not much sailing on the West Coast and US Sailing should focus on bringing sailing to the West Coast. <sarcasm>

Well, there is a reason why the US Sailing team sucks.

#8 jesposito

jesposito

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,537 posts
  • Location:somewhere where your not
  • Interests:cycling, skiing and depressing the competition on the race course

Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:11 PM


Now, here's a real surprise:

"5. We failed to generate a performance edge (speed and technique) required to win an Olympic medal."

Did we need yet another US Sailing committee to conclude that?


Reading between the lines they basically bitch slapped Brenner back into oblivion.

But yes mostly restating the obvious without much specific input. Generally not dealing with the reality that there isn't anyone really interested in Olympic sailing in the US. Kids are spoon fed sailing in low performance borrowed boats, kept on a really tight leash far too long.

The problem in the US isn't really talent, it is the attitude of the pretenders who we somehow let take control of the entire Youth system.

And they sail these real short courses and do 11 a day, so they never learn how to make the boat go fast. Great boat handleing, sucky boat speed. Then they get to the Olympic's where they sail long courses and we get great starts and then spit out the back

#9 Delta Blues

Delta Blues

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,779 posts

Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:14 PM

There's not a single mention of the Junior Olympics, obviously it isn't part of their development plan, it is just another way to soak some money out of people to cover the payroll in Portsmouth. There's no mention that there is little Olympic Class sailing in the U.S. and any description on how to rebuild the base of U.S. Olympic sailing. There's no mention of adding a bunch of Grade 1 events in the U.S. to cause the Europeans to have to spend more of their money on travel and shipping and re-tip the balance of expenses. It all looks like attempted short-term gains again, and no long range view on rebuilding the excitement of sailing in Olympic classes. Here's my prediction - in 2016 performance will be a bit better of the U.S. Team with equipment specific coaches. It really comes down to the individual, there might be a medal or two, but nothing like medalling in all equipment.

#10 JimC

JimC

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,701 posts
  • Location:South East England
  • Interests:Dinghies, especially box rule classes.

Posted 26 November 2012 - 05:35 PM

There's no mention that there is little Olympic Class sailing in the U.S.

Nor in Great Britain or Australia I think you'll find...

#11 couchsurfer

couchsurfer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,115 posts
  • Location:NA westcoast
  • Interests:...pimping HOOTs
    ...i550 NW circuit

Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:22 PM

There's no mention that there is little Olympic Class sailing in the U.S.

Nor in Great Britain or Australia I think you'll find...


....I see what yer mean........ :mellow:



49erPosted Image


UK 49er nationals weekendPosted Image

Summary overall resultsProvisional Overall Results Place Points Sail No Bow No Name Helm Crew Race 1 Race 2 Race 3 Race 4 Race 8 6 Oct 6 Oct 6 Oct 6 Oct 7 Oct 1 6 151 22 49er D Evans S Hiscocks 2 (6) 1 1 2 2 9 1116 4 49er David Hopper Mark Asquith 1 (5) 3 2 3 3 13 BER 16 49er Rick Peacock Nick Murray 3 3 4 3 (7) 4 18 102 34 49er Henry Lloyd Williams Sam Batten (25/DNC) 1 5 11 1 5 20 1187 23 49er Bleddyn Mon Nick Redding (13) 2 7 6 5 6 24 1027 10 49er James McIntosh Fynn Steritt (12) 4 9 5 6 7 30 1231 15 49er Tim Gratton Chris taylor 4 8 11 7 (14) 8 32 1125 8 49er Graeme Willcox Andrew Tarboton 6 (12) 12 4 10 9 37 940 13 49er Matt Humphries Luke Yeates 10 11 (14) 12 4 10 37 8 7 49er Edd Clayson Ollie Sparsley-Corfield 5 10 13 (15) 9 11 41 1151 26 49er Jack Hawkins Duncan Bryan 17 9 2 (25/DNF) 13 12 41 901 12 49er David Conlon Finbar Anderson 7 7 16 (20) 11 13 44 997 21 49er Matty Lyons James Lyons 8 13 (18) 8 15 14 48 708 9 49er Tristan Hutt Thomas Clayton 16 (21) 6 10 16 15 50 1198 27 49er Tom Bucktrout Dominick Burke 9 (25/OCS) 17 16 8 16 57 1169 14 49er Peter Lawrance Miles Blaver-Mann 11 (19) 10 19 17 17 57 1098 5 49er Simon Conway Rich Sheridan 14 15 15 13 (18) 18 68 6 (776) 28 49er Ron Price Clare Stubbs (22) 14 21 21 12 19 69 1 3 49er Steve Hopper Chris Rodway 18 (22) 20 9 22 20 69 865 1 49er John Hall Martin Gibson 15 18 22 14 (25/DNC) 21 70 1119 36 49er Richard Hall Will Harris (25/DNC) 25/DNC 8 18 19 22 75 2 29 49er H Osborne Charles Baudouin 19 16 (25/DNF) 17 23 23 79 142 6 49er Chris Tilbrook Carys Roberts 20 20 19 (25/DNF) 20

#12 Mud sailor

Mud sailor

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 487 posts

Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:58 PM

it's not Olympic classes 'per se' that make the difference. It's all those other high performance boats that kids have the opportunity sail in the UK. Be it a fireball, a 505, or a RS500. these boats are available to learn on, the best get moved to the Olympic classes.

#13 JimC

JimC

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,701 posts
  • Location:South East England
  • Interests:Dinghies, especially box rule classes.

Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:22 PM


There's no mention that there is little Olympic Class sailing in the U.S.

Nor in Great Britain or Australia I think you'll find...

....I see what yer mean........ :mellow:
49er

OK, and now compare the number of entries in the Star Nationals in the US with the number of entries in the Star Class Nationals in the UK .

#14 flatearth

flatearth

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 329 posts

Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:11 AM

McKee Appointed High Performance Director of U.S. Olympic Sailing
Two-time Olympic medalist will lead USA’s sailors toward success at Games

Portsmouth, R.I. (November 29, 2012) – Two-time Olympic medalist Charlie McKee (Coronado, Calif.) has been appointed High Performance Director of the U.S. Olympic Sailing Program. His responsibilities will include managing all on-the-water elements of the U.S. Sailing Team Sperry Top-Sider, including the coaching program, technical development and youth development with a goal of enabling U.S. sailors to reach the highest level of competition for the next Olympic and Paralympic quadrenniums. He will report to Josh Adams, Managing Director of U.S. Olympic Sailing.

“Charlie is a proven winner in Olympic sailing as both a sailor and a coach,” said Adams. “He brings a passion for Olympic class sailing and a high level of expertise in the boats we sail. Charlie is absolutely the right person to lead all performance aspects of US Sailing Team Sperry Top-Sider.”
A medalist in the World Youth Championships (Laser Class), McKee brought home two Olympic Games medals (bronze 470, 1988 and bronze 49er, 2000), and was the coach of the U.S. Olympic windsurfing team for the 1992 Olympic Games in which USA brought home a silver medal.

“I am honored to be a part of this effort,” said McKee. “We plan to build on the good work that has been done previously, and work hard to give athletes the support they need to succeed in the increasingly competitive environment that is Olympic Sailing today. This includes a focus on technical expertise, high-level coaching and sufficient funding. There are many different paths to athletic success, and we intend to work with both the elite-level and aspiring athletes to help them to achieve their goals in the best way we can.”
A graduate of the University of Washington (BA Economics, 1986), McKee previously worked for 12 years as a commercial real estate appraiser before returning to the water full time. He has been involved in two America’s Cup campaigns, and has been racing everything from AC boats to foiling Moths. He lives in Coronado, Calif. with his wife Becky and three sons.

#15 Delta Dog

Delta Dog

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 291 posts
  • Location:Nor Cal
  • Interests:A wana go Fast!

Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:17 AM

McKee Appointed High Performance Director of U.S. Olympic Sailing
Two-time Olympic medalist will lead USA’s sailors toward success at Games

Portsmouth, R.I. (November 29, 2012) – Two-time Olympic medalist Charlie McKee (Coronado, Calif.) has been appointed High Performance Director of the U.S. Olympic Sailing Program. His responsibilities will include managing all on-the-water elements of the U.S. Sailing Team Sperry Top-Sider, including the coaching program, technical development and youth development with a goal of enabling U.S. sailors to reach the highest level of competition for the next Olympic and Paralympic quadrenniums. He will report to Josh Adams, Managing Director of U.S. Olympic Sailing.

“Charlie is a proven winner in Olympic sailing as both a sailor and a coach,” said Adams. “He brings a passion for Olympic class sailing and a high level of expertise in the boats we sail. Charlie is absolutely the right person to lead all performance aspects of US Sailing Team Sperry Top-Sider.”
A medalist in the World Youth Championships (Laser Class), McKee brought home two Olympic Games medals (bronze 470, 1988 and bronze 49er, 2000), and was the coach of the U.S. Olympic windsurfing team for the 1992 Olympic Games in which USA brought home a silver medal.

“I am honored to be a part of this effort,” said McKee. “We plan to build on the good work that has been done previously, and work hard to give athletes the support they need to succeed in the increasingly competitive environment that is Olympic Sailing today. This includes a focus on technical expertise, high-level coaching and sufficient funding. There are many different paths to athletic success, and we intend to work with both the elite-level and aspiring athletes to help them to achieve their goals in the best way we can.”
A graduate of the University of Washington (BA Economics, 1986), McKee previously worked for 12 years as a commercial real estate appraiser before returning to the water full time. He has been involved in two America’s Cup campaigns, and has been racing everything from AC boats to foiling Moths. He lives in Coronado, Calif. with his wife Becky and three sons.


This seems like a very good move.

#16 Presuming Ed

Presuming Ed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,632 posts
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:49 AM

OK, and now compare the number of entries in the Star Nationals in the US with the number of entries in the Star Class Nationals in the UK .


One wonders how far they're going to have to go to find 10 competitive boats for the docklands regatta at the London boat show.

http://www.yachtsand...r-Championships

#17 DryArmour

DryArmour

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,521 posts
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:57 PM


McKee Appointed High Performance Director of U.S. Olympic Sailing
Two-time Olympic medalist will lead USA’s sailors toward success at Games

Portsmouth, R.I. (November 29, 2012) – Two-time Olympic medalist Charlie McKee (Coronado, Calif.) has been appointed High Performance Director of the U.S. Olympic Sailing Program. His responsibilities will include managing all on-the-water elements of the U.S. Sailing Team Sperry Top-Sider, including the coaching program, technical development and youth development with a goal of enabling U.S. sailors to reach the highest level of competition for the next Olympic and Paralympic quadrenniums. He will report to Josh Adams, Managing Director of U.S. Olympic Sailing.

“Charlie is a proven winner in Olympic sailing as both a sailor and a coach,” said Adams. “He brings a passion for Olympic class sailing and a high level of expertise in the boats we sail. Charlie is absolutely the right person to lead all performance aspects of US Sailing Team Sperry Top-Sider.”
A medalist in the World Youth Championships (Laser Class), McKee brought home two Olympic Games medals (bronze 470, 1988 and bronze 49er, 2000), and was the coach of the U.S. Olympic windsurfing team for the 1992 Olympic Games in which USA brought home a silver medal.

“I am honored to be a part of this effort,” said McKee. “We plan to build on the good work that has been done previously, and work hard to give athletes the support they need to succeed in the increasingly competitive environment that is Olympic Sailing today. This includes a focus on technical expertise, high-level coaching and sufficient funding. There are many different paths to athletic success, and we intend to work with both the elite-level and aspiring athletes to help them to achieve their goals in the best way we can.”
A graduate of the University of Washington (BA Economics, 1986), McKee previously worked for 12 years as a commercial real estate appraiser before returning to the water full time. He has been involved in two America’s Cup campaigns, and has been racing everything from AC boats to foiling Moths. He lives in Coronado, Calif. with his wife Becky and three sons.


This seems like a very good move.


+1.

#18 Dawg Gonit

Dawg Gonit

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,783 posts
  • Location:Channel Islands (oxnard), Calif

Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:21 AM

There's not a single mention of the Junior Olympics, obviously it isn't part of their development plan, it is just another way to soak some money out of people to cover the payroll in Portsmouth. There's no mention that there is little Olympic Class sailing in the U.S. and any description on how to rebuild the base of U.S. Olympic sailing. There's no mention of adding a bunch of Grade 1 events in the U.S. to cause the Europeans to have to spend more of their money on travel and shipping and re-tip the balance of expenses. It all looks like attempted short-term gains again, and no long range view on rebuilding the excitement of sailing in Olympic classes. Here's my prediction - in 2016 performance will be a bit better of the U.S. Team with equipment specific coaches. It really comes down to the individual, there might be a medal or two, but nothing like medalling in all equipment.


They did mentioned the US Paralympic team once. It seems that they are to share "Funding Opportunities" but no mention of actual "Funds"

#19 kent_island_sailor

kent_island_sailor

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,782 posts
  • Location:Kent Island!

Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:22 PM

AFAIK the USA is VERY much stuck in the Opti/Club 420 world. How is that working out so far?

#20 Tcatman

Tcatman

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 984 posts

Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:42 PM

AFAIK the USA is VERY much stuck in the Opti/Club 420 world. How is that working out so far?


and no long range view on rebuilding the excitement of sailing in Olympic classes.


So... Is the question one of leadership or one of followership.. What makes anyone think that US Olympic could impact the "excitement of Olympic Sailing"?

The brits report how little Olympic Class Sailing their countrymen engage in. (They sail LOTS of classes which serve as feeders for talent to move up.

More the point... What do you see in the US dinghy sailor population that gives anyone even a glimmer of hope of getting these sailors to flip to olympic class sailing?

Seems to me, we need Olympic leadership that partners with the key One Design Classes.. and provides opportunities eg (training camps) for the 15 to 24 year old set on similar boats as to olympic equipment. So... in my world... F16/F18 cats feed sail mixed multihull.... 505's feed M/W High Performance (skiffs) and i420's feed MW dinghy. Lasers of course feed lasers and boards / kites ???

#21 Presuming Ed

Presuming Ed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,632 posts
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:24 PM

505's feed M/W High Performance (skiffs)


Really not sure how much overlap there is there.

#22 bruno

bruno

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,811 posts

Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:48 PM

true, drivers do not learn 2 string helming but the boats do plane upwind and down, the 90 d. reaches are good training for assym reaching but yes, there are big differences, still good crew training though less so as skiffs have evolved to a crew-centric platform. if I were to point at a single weakness in the US HP program it would be a lack of crew development. this is one area where charlie can have the biggest impacts as he has been a top crew for 30 years, if anyone in the states knmows how to crew on skiffs it would be him. and it is a good sign that they picked a crew to run the program, drivers tend to get the glory whilst the crews do the work in most skiffs today.

#23 PeterHuston

PeterHuston

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,792 posts

Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:25 PM

505's feed M/W High Performance (skiffs)


Really not sure how much overlap there is there.


While not perfect, it is a far sight better than more time in a 4Twinkie/CFJ.

#24 cantp1

cantp1

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 355 posts
  • Location:Montreal, QC
  • Interests:Sailing
    Skiing
    Squash

Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:55 PM

true, drivers do not learn 2 string helming but the boats do plane upwind and down, the 90 d. reaches are good training for assym reaching but yes, there are big differences, still good crew training though less so as skiffs have evolved to a crew-centric platform. if I were to point at a single weakness in the US HP program it would be a lack of crew development. this is one area where charlie can have the biggest impacts as he has been a top crew for 30 years, if anyone in the states knmows how to crew on skiffs it would be him. and it is a good sign that they picked a crew to run the program, drivers tend to get the glory whilst the crews do the work in most skiffs today.


How 'bout this: http://sailingteams....th_Oakcliff.htm ??

#25 bruno

bruno

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,811 posts

Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:08 PM

better have the first class be boat maintenance

#26 couchsurfer

couchsurfer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,115 posts
  • Location:NA westcoast
  • Interests:...pimping HOOTs
    ...i550 NW circuit

Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:15 PM

good moves!.....after getting CharlieMcKee as director,,I'm not surprised to hear this........

''........will acquire 24 Olympic class boats – eight each of the Nacra 17, 49er and 49er FX skiffs – that the US Sailing Team Sperry Top-Sider will have full access to for Team-level training and youth development throughout the year.''

http://sailingteams....ng.org/News.htm

#27 mustang__1

mustang__1

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,939 posts
  • Location:Philly, by way of Sarasota and Newport...

Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:39 PM

i hope that when these are boats not being used for the USSDT they will be made available for charter at various class events.

One piece of observational evidence of good things to come i think was seen at Orange Bowl this year. Not the youth event, but the open event at Coconut grove (well run event btw, for anyone who wants to come down. aside from putting the 29er's on a trapezoid one race, but i doubt they'll do that again....). There were 22 29er teams of mostly US and of young age, and 20 i420's, who were also young. The 29er's used to pull over 25boats at their midwinter events, but there was a healthy mix of Canadian boats in that regatta due to the event being some some sort of qualifer for them. The fact that we had 22 boats for an event that is not a qualifier for anything, just a chance to go sail against other 29er's, is great. It also shows the growing health of the US 29er class with many east coast teams representing.

It has bothered me for some time now that people complain the US doesnt do well on the world stage consistently, and then in the same breath complain that i420's and 29er's are not worth getting into because there is no one to sail against. The club420 serves its purpose, and i sailed them for years as a junior sailor, but god are they boring to sail...




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users