6 replies to this topic

[DUBLIN-13]

Up to the very early 90s IOR was a worldwide handicap but once this fell apart chs & ims became the handicaps of choice. Now we have ORC/IMS used as the handicap of choice world wide apart from the uk, ireland and a few fleets around the world. My question is why was ORC never adopted as a system in the uk & ireland? The rest of europe uses it and even has a world and european championships. Surely the use of an international system such as ORC could be better for boats to travel to events and could resurect the admirals cup or some such event in time. There are about 500 boats with an ORC cert in the uk at the moment.

[Presuming Ed]

Up to the very early 90s IOR was a worldwide handicap but once this fell apart chs & ims became the handicaps of choice. Now we have ORC/IMS used as the handicap of choice world wide apart from the uk, ireland and a few fleets around the world.

Nice of you to forget the French. And AFAIAA, ORC penetration into the US is....limited.

There are about 500 boats with an ORC cert in the uk at the moment.

Really? Actual, current, certificates that have been paid for? Or just boats for which a one design certificate is available (if ORC does this)? I'm amazed.

[JimC]

I suspect the answer is that once IMS had oozlum birded itself most folks found IRC to be good enough for their requirements. After all how many keel boat owners can afford to consider international competition (well other than a hop to the neighboring nation anyway).

[dogwatch]

My question is why was ORC never adopted as a system in the uk & ireland?

It was, in GBR certainly. I raced in IMS for several seasons. RORC dual-scored IMS/IRC for quite a few years but interest in IMS steadily decreased. One Commodore's Cup (the first IIRC) used full-blown IMS performance curve scoring and the resulting shambles was termed the "Comedy Cup". The claim that IMS provided a shiny new world of objective science-based handicapping never recovered in the UK.

The rest of europe uses it

That's stretching it. National or regional systems are actually predominant in many countries that don't use IRC,

and even has a world and european championships.

Look at the entries. For all practical purposes these are local regattas for local boats. Practically nobody has been motivated to build custom ORCi boats for international events for many years. In some ways that's a good thing as the rule isn't being explored by designers but let's not kid ourselves.

There are about 500 boats with an ORC cert in the uk at the moment.

I call bullshit on that.

[Haguesail]

Hey Dublin - not sure if your initial post was a troll or blarney. IRC is dominant system in Europe for major offshores, shorthanded, and in the top-tier offshore countries (UK, France -- the Allies). ORC is biggest in Germany and Italy (the Axis). We sail both IRC and ORC in Holland, it is a pain and a lot more than double the cost if you want to optimize for both. Everyone was hoping the 'unification' talks last year would be fruitful, but because of either economic self-interest, politics, or personalities we are still stuck with the two systems. As noted above there are a lot of great designers working to IRC, and not a lot of designer interest in ORC. The fact that the ORC just revamped its VPP model, with some considerable changes in rating, also wasn't a confidence builder (even though our boat benefitted). For club races we use local 'SW' system, which one of the elder members tweaks between races based on results and inclination. No arguments, even when late in the season a slow family cruiser goes up to the podium for the winner's bottle of champagne.

[DUBLIN-13]

The ORC does throw up 500 boats in GBR but alot of them are Sigma 33s & 38s and other production boats so they probably had orc/ims in the past but arent certified for 2012 so will accept it is bull

[JenBee]

The ORC does throw up 500 boats in GBR but alot of them are Sigma 33s & 38s and other production boats so they probably had orc/ims in the past but arent certified for 2012 so will accept it is bull

According to the ORC list, the majority of those were issued 1998 or earlier. Three certificates were issued in 2001, probably for GBR boats racing overseas.