13 replies to this topic

[golfinaspen]

Interested in adding a fixed carbon bowsprit to my Ben 25 (platu). We have been flying assym's from the pole with good results, especially in light air, but a sprit would make sail handling much simplier given the tippy nature of the boat when it blows. Does anyone know who makes such custom equipment?

[Vela Sailing Supply]

Assuming that you want to keep the option of sail the boat under One Design configuration with too much hassle, I suggest to install a Forte Carbon bowsprit. They are simple and easy to install, as well as remove when you want to bring the boat back to its original layout. For a boat like the Platu 25, a 2" ID carbon sprit will do the trick. The way Forte builds this tubes oriented for use on a 50/50 ratio (supported/unsupported lengths): ie. If you want a 3 ft bowsprit from the stem to the tip, then you need a 6 ft. tube. Keep in mind that this sprit will work for an asymmetrical spinnaker not for a code zero (you need to add a bobstay for a code zero to compensate for luff rope/halyard tension).

Here are some shots of how it looks like:



We carry the small kit at $1,559 including:
• Carbon sprit painted clear.
• Harken loop and outboard cap.
• Your choice of aft mount: Saddle or removable deck eye.

Feel free to email or call us if you want to talk about this and the options.

Rod

[golfinaspen]

Boat is not in OD configuration as it sails PHRF and there is no OD competition in the U.S. It uses assym chutes carried on the OD pole which greatly improves handling and reaching performance. Replacing the pole with a fixed sprit is the concept.

[golfinaspen]

Found it, GC Marine in Richmond CA made a custom fabrication for a sister ship. Check out www. gcmarine.net and the showcase tab for details. Looks like a beautiful job.

[sos]

Found it, GC Marine in Richmond CA made a custom fabrication for a sister ship. Check out www. gcmarine.net and the showcase tab for details. Looks like a beautiful job.

I've sailed that boat. Worked really well and I can't speak highly enough about Gills, great guy and dose great work

We found you can use an M24 kite quite well.

[Ryley]

Don't know where you sail, but before you make the mod you may want to check with your PHRF committee. In PHRFNE, they are looking at boats that have added a fixed sprit and asyms and made the length such that they don't take a rating hit. The formula for adding a fixed sprit to a racer/cruiser is +9 minus 3 per 10% J or fraction increase

Some boats increased their J on the pole to cancel out the +9 and remain at the same rating they had, despite an incredible increase in downwind sail area. The situation is currently under review, there will be changes coming, and they've already said it will apply not only to boats that make the change in the future but boats that have already made the change.

[Soley]

I assume you are ready to buy new kites as well as buying the sprit as your current assyms will not work too well on the new configuration.

If melges 24 kites fit that would be very nice! Have you thought about going the retractable pole route? You could have two settings, half pole out for A3 and full pole out for A2 and A1. It maybe less expensive to retro fit the boat for that.

[golfinaspen]

SOS please tell me more about the performance of Black Sheep with the sprit. I seems that M24 sails would be too long on the luff. Gilles thought that a shorter sprit would well and not need a bob stay especially sice we now lead the tack line down and under the deck via a bolt hole in the forestay chain plate on the bow.

Solely, we have considered a retractable pole but the internal reinforcement of the tube would be considerable since the boat is quite skinny up front . A fixed sprit is a straightforward solution. The LIS PHRF. Committee uses a similar rating formula based on TSP/J and a sprit about 3.9 feet would allow the boat to sail at the bareboat 120 rating. I think Black Sheep has sprit about a foot longer. We will need a new runner but the existing reacher would still work.

The Platu is a giant killer in light air but when the breeze picks up it is a handful downwind so getting rid of the pole is a project worth exploring. We have also followed with Interest the development of the Donovan GP 26 as another horse for the course on Long Island Sound.

[garrett818]

One thing to keep in mind: In heavyer air a longer sprit will balance the boat better than a short one.

[Ryley]

SOS please tell me more about the performance of Black Sheep with the sprit. I seems that M24 sails would be too long on the luff. Gilles thought that a shorter sprit would well and not need a bob stay especially sice we now lead the tack line down and under the deck via a bolt hole in the forestay chain plate on the bow.

Solely, we have considered a retractable pole but the internal reinforcement of the tube would be considerable since the boat is quite skinny up front . A fixed sprit is a straightforward solution. The LIS PHRF. Committee uses a similar rating formula based on TSP/J and a sprit about 3.9 feet would allow the boat to sail at the bareboat 120 rating. I think Black Sheep has sprit about a foot longer. We will need a new runner but the existing reacher would still work.

The Platu is a giant killer in light air but when the breeze picks up it is a handful downwind so getting rid of the pole is a project worth exploring. We have also followed with Interest the development of the Donovan GP 26 as another horse for the course on Long Island Sound.

Yeah, but what I'm saying is that that formula is going to change in PHRFNE because they've determined that it gives far too much advantage to the people who make that conversion. If PHRFNE changes, expect it to affect ECSA and PHRFLIS as well, if not next year then within a couple years. Bear in mind that the change, when they announce it, will be applied to existing changed boats as well - no grandfathering.

[golfinaspen]

Garrett818 - good point, center of effort of the sailplan moves forward something that we have considered but not with precision. At the moment we are looking to get the length and new sail area into a band that does not hammer the rating the way the pole + asyms do and give us an improvement in boat handling.

Ryley - agree, no doubt the local PHRF committees look to each other for solutions to "loopholes". The interesting point is that LIS uses the same rating criteria for both fixed sprits and retractable poles so long as the chute is tacked on the centerline. PHRF LIS also has a multi-part screen for chute size so one possibility could be to tax heavily based on sail size, primilary mid-girths on runners and not so much sprit length. One would think that the handicappers have sufficient data with the J boats of various sizes but the conversions are one-offs, hence the issue. I think we are with a band of =/- 6 sec/mi and would live happily in that range if we get a boost in handling. One screwed up jibe with the pole eats up that delta very fast.

[golfinaspen]

 

Here is picture of the GCMarine sprit for Black Sheep before it was fitted to the boat.

here is the business end.

Still considering a similar setup but probably more of a TP52 type sprit since we need only one jack line.

[clamslapper]

Assuming that you want to keep the option of sail the boat under One Design configuration with too much hassle, I suggest to install a Forte Carbon bowsprit. They are simple and easy to install, as well as remove when you want to bring the boat back to its original layout. For a boat like the Platu 25, a 2" ID carbon sprit will do the trick. The way Forte builds this tubes oriented for use on a 50/50 ratio (supported/unsupported lengths): ie. If you want a 3 ft bowsprit from the stem to the tip, then you need a 6 ft. tube. Keep in mind that this sprit will work for an asymmetrical spinnaker not for a code zero (you need to add a bobstay for a code zero to compensate for luff rope/halyard tension).

Here are some shots of how it looks like:



We carry the small kit at $1,559 including:
• Carbon sprit painted clear.
• Harken loop and outboard cap.
• Your choice of aft mount: Saddle or removable deck eye.

Feel free to email or call us if you want to talk about this and the options.

Rod

 

 

Makes the foredeck look pretty nasty. 

[Left Hook]

 

Here is picture of the GCMarine sprit for Black Sheep before it was fitted to the boat.

here is the business end.

Still considering a similar setup but probably more of a TP52 type sprit since we need only one jack line.

That is sexy as all hell...