262 replies to this topic

[jim lee]

Evnin' boys n' girls!

 

Here's a build log update. Link

 

Todd's one week closer to having is fluffy cushioned island hopper.

 

-jim lee

[hawaiifins]

What are "race cushions?"  I used to sail with those shorts with the closed cell foam pad inserts.  I thought those were race cushions.  

 

The boat is looking great.  Jeez, I'm getting excited.

[in_TO]

Here's a build log update. Link

 

"Wenches are mounted." 

 

Hey, keep it clean; this is a family show.

[Great Red Shark]

 

What are "race cushions?"  I used to sail with those shorts with the closed cell foam pad inserts.  I thought those were race cushions.  
 
The boat is looking great.  Jeez, I'm getting excited.

 
I liked Donovan's line about the "giant sponges" - that about covers it.

[Raked aft \\]

curious why you picked the square hatch instead of round ?

seems round is less prone to point loading the deck in the corners.

Looking good!!

[hawaiifins]

curious why you picked the square hatch instead of round ?
seems round is less prone to point loading the deck in the corners.
Looking good!!

It's like a hang sandwich in a pub. The hatch is what they had hanging around in the shop..

[jim lee]

Well, the reason it was hanging around the shop was, I don't like the round ones. The narrow hinge seemed weak and they always reminded me of out house lids. So, when we were considering hatches for Darts, we bought that square one.

 

-jim lee

[familysailor]

Outhouse lids..... scary visual.

Square wins!!

[Raked aft \\]

We had a square hatch and got cracks on the 45 off the aft corners, so we switched to the round.
Also weighs less.

you're right about the hinges though, not as heavy duty.

[jim lee]

Hawaiifins, your boat is real!

 

Dart #4 emerges from its hull mold. Popped right out actually.

 

Raked Aft \\ Your right, a square holes can cause all sorts of mess and structural nonsense. What's the plan is to circumvent these issues? Firstly, our deck cutout does have pretty big radii on the corners, this should help. Next, we are building a fiberglass insert to bond/tab into the hole as a frame to strengthen it.

 

Figured popping the hull form the mold rated a pix-post.

 

-jim lee

[Silverbullet]

Looks good!

[hawaiifins]

Wow. A bunch of glass went in and a boat came out! Now, what have you built for me lately?

[Kirwan]

Hawaiifins, your boat is real!

 

Dart #4 emerges from its hull mold. Popped right out actually.

 

Figured popping the hull form the mold rated a pix-post.

 

-jim lee

 

That has to be a really great feeling, to work and sweat and worry, and produce such a thing of beauty!  Good on y'all, Jim and crew!

 

We're all jealous, Hawaii.... enjoying it vicariously.

[jim lee]

Build log update for those of you that follow this stuff : Link

 

For everyone else, nothing to see here, move along..

 

Kirwan : Its totally cool to pop parts out of molds. I donno'. I never get tired of it. Must be some mis-wired birthing excitement thing.

 

-jim lee

[hawaiifins]

You caused my heart to stop briefly when you said in the log that the Corecell was on back order for the next 6-8 weeks.  Good job scrounging some up from the other builders in the neighborhood.  So Lewmar apparently builds asymmetrical hatches.  That's okay- most people these days are putting asymmetrical kites in and out of them...

[Great Red Shark]

So are you going to sea-trial it there-  before it ships to the Sandwich Islands.  or do we shake it down off DH ?

[hawaiifins]

There, before shipping if possible. Eight knots of summer breeze in Puget Sound should be a good test, don't you think?

[jim lee]

Ran across this video From Tammany Yacht Club. At about 5:32 the boat with the camera fouls Sapphire, Mark's Dart #3. Then not long after that there's a great shot of Mark, screwing up a chute hoist. You get to see keel and everything! What fun!

 

https://www.youtube....v=O-qfpZIC_cA#!

 

-jim lee

[hawaiifins]

Uh, Jim, why is Mark reefed in those winds? Is there something I need to know about?

[Soley]

Wow those guys in the video suck balls.

[hawaiifins]

I was kinda thinking the same thing. What, they gybed like 5 times for some reason. Say, Jim Lee, what if all the Darts came together at the same place and time? It would be a regatta of epic proportions. It would be the perfect race.

[hard aground]

I assumed they were first doing circles for not giving way to Mark, then they were on top of the mark and rounded.  Then about a fortnight later they got the kite up.

[hawaiifins]

I get it. Watching it again, your are right.

[jim lee]

Looking at the race results, I guess that's all the sail area Mark figured he needed. Shows he's gettin' a tad uppity. Bringing all the Darts together would be great. I don't think we built enough for our own one design start, but we do have enough for a great party!

 

-jim lee

[jim lee]

Replying to myself, always a bad sign. You people still reading this stuff?

 

Build log update : Link

 

-jim lee

[ducky]

that guy in the video looks like keel dragger in his old age.(-:

[Silverbullet]

that guy in the video looks like keel dragger in his old age.(-:

 

I see some similarities in the crew work.

[JumpingJax]

Replying to myself, always a bad sign. You people still reading this stuff?

 

Build log update : Link

 

-jim lee

 

I'm too busy reading your blog from the posts to be wasting time replying to your posts.  Keep it up! 

[Steam Flyer]

Replying to myself, always a bad sign. You people still reading this stuff?

 

Build log update : Link

 

-jim lee

 

I'm too busy reading your blog from the posts to be wasting time replying to your posts.  Keep it up! 

 

+1

 

DSK

[huey 2]

I luv to watch !!!!!  dont stop   a very generous education    cheers

[jim lee]

Here's this week's buildlog update : Link

 

Enjoy!

 

-jim lee

[familysailor]

Thank you, again. Great thread!

[JumpingJax]

Here's this week's buildlog update : Link

 

Enjoy!

 

-jim lee

 

Duly enjoyed.  Keep the thread coming. 

 

Thanks,

[MSA]

Surely you would want Brakes on a trailer with that much weight anyway?..

[Raked aft \\]

Electric Trailer brakes are nice...

[jim lee]

Yup, auto adjust electric. All the parts are ordered..

 

Sigh..

 

Here's a teaser shot of Geoff working on the new Jim Betts, extra light carbon Dart bowsprit.

 

 

Geoff's got everything aligned. ( At least I hope so! ) And is putting in the epoxy bog that holds these two in alignment.

 

 

 

 

All spooged in and waiting to kick off. What your seeing here is the underside bits that mate up to the hull. There's a top piece that covers up everything and makes this into a square box tube.

 

This is the master part and will be used to create tooling for subsequent Dart bowsprits.

 

-jim lee

[hawaiifins]

So will there be subsequent Darts?

[clamslapper]

Gotta say, I'm a convert.  I like the boat and I respect Jim Lee's blog.  Boy does it deserve to be a real OD class -- would just be super!!  If I could just get over my allergy to PHRF, I'd get one of these in two seconds. 

 

I really think the bowsprit should be longer though.  But then I guess you get into retractables -- can't very well have a race boat with a ten foot prong permanently sticking off the front -- and I know that entails weight, leakage, and complexity.

 

I noticed on your site that these also work with symmetricals.  Is there a rating difference if that's done?  Guess I'm thinking that might actually be a good way to go.  Asym would be great for cruise-y weekends etc.  Haven't seeny many boats where there's an elegant solution to having it either way, but you seem to be good at finding elegant solutions.

[jim lee]

At least one.. But really, as many as people want. 

 

We're still having little luck getting the sailing world to notice us at all. When Mitch & Gary showed up at the Round Whidby Island Race this last weekend they said everyone was asking them what the boat was. No one had even heard of a Dart. This is what? 30-45 minute drive from the factory? And, just last year Paul was down there at Whidbey Island race week winning his class racing.

 

Ok, missed Clam's posting.

 

Darts go both ways, asymmetrical & symmetrical. Mark, down in NOLA runs symmetrical setup with PHRF 111, Paul uses the asymmetrical up here with PHRF 117? 114? forget which. "Good enough" (The beater Dart) is symmetrical with PHRF of 129.

 

It looks like we're going to have 3 Darts in this next Whidbey Island Race Week. Paul's, Hawaiifins & Mark is planning on coming up from NOLA and racing "Good enough". If I can get Mark to bring his Dart north, I'll loan Good enough out and have 4 racing.

 

So, one design is actually starting to look almost possible. Remember one design doesn't have to be all over the planet, just in your home town.

 

-jim lee

Edited by jim lee, 06 May 2013 - 11:57 PM.

[Great Red Shark]

Clam, the new owner of this boat - Hawaiifins - had a Sydney36 previously that could fit either conventional symmetric spinkkers or a de-mountable prod and assyms, so the idea is not unheard of.

 

In practice, any rational, objective measurement system is going to penalize the longer luff lengths of the assymettrical kites, for good or bad.

[jibeset]

I know this is for the building log.  I sailed on Hull number one this last weekend and did a 70 mile race on it.  All I can say is wow...  What a easy boat to drive in winds ranging from 0-18 knots up and down wind.  Thanks Jim for letting us borrow the boat.  We sailed against 17 other boats ranging in handicap from 66 to over 200+ and we corrected out over 4 hours in first place.  I am writting up a report on the race but this boat is a dream to sail if you are thinking about buying one....

 

Gary Stuntz

[hawaiifins]

I know this is for the building log.  I sailed on Hull number one this last weekend and did a 70 mile race on it.  All I can say is wow...  What a easy boat to drive in winds ranging from 0-18 knots up and down wind.  Thanks Jim for letting us borrow the boat.  We sailed against 17 other boats ranging in handicap from 66 to over 200+ and we corrected out over 4 hours in first place.  I am writting up a report on the race but this boat is a dream to sail if you are thinking about buying one....

 

Gary Stuntz

Please put the report on Jim's blog so that we can all read it!

[clamslapper]

Clam, the new owner of this boat - Hawaiifins - had a Sydney36 previously that could fit either conventional symmetric spinkkers or a de-mountable prod and assyms, so the idea is not unheard of.

 

In practice, any rational, objective measurement system is going to penalize the longer luff lengths of the assymettrical kites, for good or bad.

 

 

Asymmetricals result in being penalized?  In my Victorian-era understanding of sailboats, I would have guessed that symmetricals worked a whole lot better on W/L courses for the obvious reason that you get to press a lot more.  Interesting (not that I doubt you at all).  The only asymmetrical boat I ever sailed was when I borrowed a Viper to do CRW a couple years ago.  Boy did I do a piss poor job of driving, trying to sail about ten degrees too deep all the time.  "Because the driver's a fucking idiot" was the appropriate answer to a query about our boat's poor performance.

[jim lee]

As far as we can tell for W/L the symmetrical chutes seem to work better. This is the setup Mark uses and mostly what Dart #1 uses. #2 & #4 are sprit boats. We'll see this Whidbey Island Race week what setup is faster.

 

We have Build log update

 

And we have Highlights update

 

And here's an interesting thing. Mark sent us this cool Dart picture..

 

 

This picture has gone completely viral on facebook. We have almost more hits on this than the rest of the site combined. Its going through South america, Italy, Portugal. Watching this stuff is fascinating!

 

-jim lee

[familysailor]

Great stuff!

 

A while ago you were chatting about good and bad features of gas outboards vs. torqueedo electrics of various types.

Gas was the best choice for many reasons, but still had issues with smell and fuel storage.

 

Have you considered propane outboards? I saw and article about them and thought they would be great for certain situations.

 

They come in 2.5, 5 and 9.9 hp. I don't know how they compare to gas for weight or cost.

 

Here's a link:

http://www.golehr.com/

[DJL]

Looked at your engine link. 53lbs for 5Hp - without fuel. Ouch, not on our boat. Interesting link though, thanks.


Nice pic Jim! Thanks for the great thread.

[Soley]

Looked at your engine link. 53lbs for 5Hp - without fuel. Ouch, not on our boat. Interesting link though, thanks.


Nice pic Jim! Thanks for the great thread.

 

Really DJL? Which 5hp outboard do you have that is lighter?

[familysailor]

Just looked up honda 4 stroke 5 horse--- 60 & 61 pounds.

 

I"m sure a 2 stroke would be lighter, but probably messier than 4 stroke.

 

The propane version would be a nice fit for a cruising boat that already had propane for cooking and grilling.........

 

Has anyone out there seen or used the lehr propane OB?

[jim lee]

Easy there, we use 2.5 HP Yamahas and they are less than 1/2lb lighter than the propane 2.5.

 

My worry would be how well built these propane ones are. So far the Yamaha engines have been pretty much bullet proof.

 

It would be an interesting experiment...

 

 

-jim lee

[dolphinmaster]

Easy there, we use 2.5 HP Yamahas and they are less than 1/2lb lighter than the propane 2.5.

 

My worry would be how well built these propane ones are. So far the Yamaha engines have been pretty much bullet proof.

 

It would be an interesting experiment...

 

 

-jim lee

I'm finding 37 lbs on a quick google search for that 2.5

[familysailor]

The honda 2.5 weighs less at about 30 lb. but it is air cooled.

Had one of their very first air cooled models back in the 70's and had many issues with seizind up/overheating.

Yamaha and propane lehr similar weight, but Yamaha has neutral and forward gears while lehr has centrifigal clutch for neutral and then forward. Can see some issues if/when you might be trying to warm up the engine and having the forward function engaging when unexpected.

Hard to compare run times between Propane/gasoline as well. (mileage)

 

I still have a 2 HP Yamaha 2 stroke from the 80's I use(d) with an early westmarine small inflateable. No shifting. Pull start and go. Reverse was achieved by quickly rotating the engine 180 degrees. (really quickly) Made for some adventueous errands. Still runs when I take it out and play with it.

[DJL]

We use a 4 Hp 2-stroke on the Olson.  Plenty of power to get the boat in and out of the slip for racing, and to move it at hull speed in flat water.  It's a bit unfair to compare our motor with the propane one, but they don't make anything between 2.5 and 5 Hp, so nothing in the right weight/power band for comparison.  Either way, remember that unless it's extremely efficient, you'll have to haul a 20lb propane bottle with you to meet minimum run-time limits for distance racing.  A plastic can of gas is easier to deal with than a steel propane cylinder in my opinion.

 

DJL

[familysailor]

We use a 4 Hp 2-stroke on the Olson.  Plenty of power to get the boat in and out of the slip for racing, and to move it at hull speed in flat water.  It's a bit unfair to compare our motor with the propane one, but they don't make anything between 2.5 and 5 Hp, so nothing in the right weight/power band for comparison.  Either way, remember that unless it's extremely efficient, you'll have to haul a 20lb propane bottle with you to meet minimum run-time limits for distance racing.  A plastic can of gas is easier to deal with than a steel propane cylinder in my opinion.

 

DJL

That's the question I had regarding mileage. How do you compare lbs of propane to gallons of gasoline?

Regarding propane bottles; they currently have composite bottles that are quite light. I plan to switch from my rusty steel bottle when I see them go on sale again.

I've seen 3 and 5 gallon sizes. Other sizes are available I believe.

[hawaiifins]

Come on Jim Lee: certainly a flux capacitor would work on the Dart. Look at your avatar for crying out loud. Dr. Brown would put one on his Dart.

[olaf hart]

Come on Jim Lee: certainly a flux capacitor would work on the Dart. Look at your avatar for crying out loud. Dr. Brown would put one on his Dart.

I would go for a caterpillar drive.

[familysailor]

Come on Jim Lee: certainly a flux capacitor would work on the Dart. Look at your avatar for crying out loud. Dr. Brown would put one on his Dart.

Do they come in 2.5 HP?

[hawaiifins]

What could go wrong with 1.21 giggawatts?!

[postpast]

I think sales will come. You have shown how well built these boats are. I bet that the sailors on this forum will appreciate this and you will have at least enough sales to keep your shop busy.

In my opinion, you are a shinning example of American craftsmanship; the best, something to aspire to. Keep up the good work.

[hard aground]

Come on Jim Lee: certainly a flux capacitor would work on the Dart. Look at your avatar for crying out loud. Dr. Brown would put one on his Dart.

He's need to start making them out of stainless though. That's going to increase the cost a smidge.  

[jim lee]

Its the 88mph that would be the trick..

 

Here's your latest build log update : Link

 

Remember we have an extra Dart that's looking for crew for this year's WIRW. : Link

I know it's not as exiting as rubber bands on spinnakers, but it is sailing related..

 

Enjoy!

 

-jim lee

[Silverbullet]

Its the 88mph that would be the trick..

 

It comes with a trailer, right?!

 

The boat and all the goodies look fantastic!  Great update!

[hawaiifins]

Its the 88mph that would be the trick..

 

Here's your latest build log update : Link

 

Remember we have an extra Dart that's looking for crew for this year's WIRW. : Link

I know it's not as exiting as rubber bands on spinnakers, but it is sailing related..

 

Enjoy!

 

-jim lee

88 MPH? What's the towing capacity of a Delorean?  

[Great Red Shark]

A couple of Kilos...