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Chinese Mac 26 knock off


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#1 Bill E Goat

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:18 AM

Surely there are better boats to steal

http://www.alibaba.c...t_Sailboat.html

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#2 Tom Ray

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:03 AM

Surely there are better boats to steal


Yeah, the list of boats that sell 40 copies a month is indeed long and varied. I present it here for everyone's viewing pleasure:

...

um...

...

That's all of the ones I can think up. Anyone else?

Roger MacGregor is a genius for making a bad idea into one of the best selling boats of all time and he has made a lot of boaters happy with his invention, whether people here like it or not. :P

#3 hoofhearted

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:40 AM

Take this to Multihull Anarchy, if you look at the quick details, TYPE is Catamaran:
Quick Details Type: Catamaran

#4 billy backstay

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:48 AM

24 MILES PER HOUR UNDER POWER WITH A 60 HP OUTBOARD

Shit!! My 23' Mako won't even go that fast with 225 horse Yammie, once the barnacles start up...



#5 dacapo

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:55 AM

bullfuckingshit. The Mac 26 is OUR boat. Built by MacGregor Boats for OUR entertainment. This fuckingbullshit copy is why the Chinese FUCKINGSUCK

#6 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:26 PM

yanky doodledandys
I've had a word to the little buggers for ya & brokered a deal that should fix everything

don't say I never do anything for ya

Attached File  chison.jpg   177.78K   129 downloads

#7 PurpleOnion

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:18 PM

Well played.

#8 stranded

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:00 PM

shanghai boat show ....

teams of about 5 go around the boats on display

3 or so young, pretty, women with cameras

A couple of older men stay back a bit and request various shots and closer ones on detail.

second shanghai boat show I went to there was a chinese " interpretation " of the corsair ( farrier ? ) 8M.

Third ........ I think you have the " picture "

.... also chinese builders advertising to build / supply with shots of many western boats

then there are all the strangely branded outboards that look " just like " the mainstream japanese and american brands

I wonder what will " show " next april ?

If I was a designer / builder I would be very careful how I display my wares ..........

funny thing is,

except for tractor / trailers on the roads,

It is not legal to tow any sort of trailer behind a car in china

P. S.

wait till the Mac Sum Thing 26 becomes embedded with the real thing in the second hand market .................

#9 casc27

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:35 PM

Finally, the Chinese have taken on a true engineering challenge: reverse engineering a Mac 26 and making it worse than the original.

#10 mcsailor0303

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:50 PM

When are they copying the 65' trailer sailor!?

#11 couchsurfer

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:56 PM

.........watch for mass landings on AUS beaches soon :blink: :blink:

#12 Somebody Else

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:03 PM

THIS.

IS.

IT !!!!!1



I can finally afford to enter the Newport to Ensenada NASBOAT class!

I am so going to win this class next year!!!!!!!!1
Uh, I hear there are some islands in the way? How do I miss those?

#13 Great White

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:13 PM

LAUNCH AND RIG IN 10 MINUTES

I can hardly run my jib sheets in ten minutes!

#14 jackdaw

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:08 PM

When the Chinese copy a Rolex its a piece of shit.

One has to wonder if this will be better, or worse, then the original.

#15 Touch of Gray

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:41 PM

Ahhh. Now we have the Fifth Mode. Would HWSNBN please step forward and accept the accolades so due.

TOG

#16 couchsurfer

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:09 AM

http://www.alibaba.c...t_Sailboat.html

..........holy ching wow!!!.....don't anyone tell them about lasers!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

#17 Canal Bottom

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:16 AM

I do not thinks they would have any interest in the Laser. The current builder has already nailed POS build and ship.

#18 Canal Bottom

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:19 AM

http://www.alibaba.c...e_Sailboat.html

Here you go

#19 couchsurfer

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:24 AM

http://www.alibaba.c...e_Sailboat.html

Here you go


ahhh,,thank-you........I'm actually somewhat interested in a 7meter Carbonfibre version.....

....seems somehow appropriate that mr Alfred DONG is the go-to guy for these .... :rolleyes:


Type: Monohull
Hull Material: Carbon Fibre Condition: New
Length (m): 4 - 8m
Draft: 0.5 - 1.5m
Place of Origin: Shandong China (Mainland)
Brand Name: Dafman
Model Number: laser standard(laser

one)
name: Laser Standard Laser One Sailboat

#20 stranded

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:24 AM

Excuse Me

Not IF, WHEN ..............

my genuine gold fake rolex is still going after more than two years

cost 20 yuan (USD$3-21) on the street in shanghai

Haven't worn it or taken off the sticky plastic film that holds it all together !

[ QUOTE ]

When the Chinese copy a Rolex its a piece of shit.

One has to wonder if this will be better, or worse, then the original.


[ UNQUOTE ]

P. S.


Posted Today, 11:09 AM
http://www.alibaba.c...t_Sailboat.html

..........holy ching wow!!!.....don't anyone tell them about lasers!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:





Too Late !

............. and don't ask about the little Hunter Trailer Sailer

#21 yowie

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:30 AM

Is Mr MacGregor responsible for redefining "sailboat", or should the charge be confusing an entire language?
If a Mac26 is a sailboat, this confusion is probably inevitable:)

http://www.alibaba.c...y_4_stroke.html

#22 hobot

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:10 AM

bullfuckingshit. The Mac 26 is OUR boat. Built by MacGregor Boats for OUR entertainment. This fuckingbullshit copy is why the Chinese FUCKINGSUCK


OMG....pigs are flying, cats and dogs are shacking up and hells freezing over.

#23 jim lee

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:47 PM

Nobody wondered if this WAS the original?

-jim lee

#24 couchsurfer

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 03:23 PM


http://www.alibaba.c...e_Sailboat.html

Here you go


ahhh,,thank-you........I'm actually somewhat interested in a 7meter Carbonfibre version.....

....seems somehow appropriate that mr Alfred DONG is the go-to guy for these .... :rolleyes:


Type: Monohull
Hull Material: Carbon Fibre Condition: New
Length (m): 4 - 8m
Draft: 0.5 - 1.5m
Place of Origin: Shandong China (Mainland)
Brand Name: Dafman
Model Number: laser standard(laser

one)
name: Laser Standard Laser One Sailboat


........hmm,,,certainly more responsive than most NA manufacturers,,,,fairly well informed,,,,not a bad price either :mellow: .....wonder what the spars,,workmanship are like??

''The price for our Laser is USD4200/PC EXW. Since our boat is not registered with ISAF, they can't be used for international racing.
We are unable to made the boats of carbon fiber for the time being.

Best regards
Alfred Dong
Qingdao OSIC International Co., Ltd ''

#25 islanderboy32

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 03:26 PM

imagine the result when a non-sailor falls for the Mac26 hype, buys the knockoff, and the directions are in chinese!!

#26 Caca Cabeza

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:36 PM

I thought that the Mac 26 WAS a Chinese knockoff of a boat.

#27 Tom Ray

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:04 PM

Nobody wondered if this WAS the original?

-jim lee


You ought to know better than most here just how hard it is to design and build a boat that will sell 40 copies a month for many, many years, yet you still mock?

Found a buyer for Dart number 5 yet? Roger sold that many the first week of this month, you know. Just like every month. ;)

#28 jim lee

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:22 AM

Mocking? I was wondering if he's just been just buying 'em from Hison all along.

-jim lee

#29 Trickypig

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:48 AM

Is Mr MacGregor responsible for redefining "sailboat", or should the charge be confusing an entire language?
If a Mac26 is a sailboat, this confusion is probably inevitable:)

http://www.alibaba.c...y_4_stroke.html


Its cultural imperialism of the worst type because now the Chinese will think a good sailing boat is a Mac 26 ... oh the horror, oh the humanity.

#30 stranded

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:07 AM

Far East Boat Co.
2002-
www.fareastboats.com

Shanghai Far East FRP Boat Co., Ltd. is recognized as the biggest dinghy builder in China. The goal is to produce various high quality sailboats and boat fittings for our customers. “Even better than our faith is the honesty of our objective.”
In the same year, Far East was licensed by the International Sailing Federation (ISAF) to build the Optimist and now have become the biggest Optimist builder in the world with a yearly capacity of approximately 2000 Optimist hulls. More recently, Far East also became an ISAF licensed builder of the 420 and started the plan to diversify the product range to Kayak and other sailboats.
Far East is also the sole distributor of Laser in the mainland China and serves China’s national sailing team in their daily training and regatta performance.

Shanghai Far East FRP Boat Co., Ltd.
Room 209, Focus Business Center, No.2468 Gudai Rd, Minhang District, Shanghai, 201100, P.R.China
Tel: +86-21-6728 5977 6728 5978
Fax: +86-21-6728 5976
Email: fareast@fareastboats.com

BY THIS BUILDER:
(Dates indicate when a boat was first built by ANY Builder)
NAME/TYPE LOA First Built
English / Metric
OPTIMIST DINGHY (INT) 7.67' / 2.34m 1947
420 13.78' / 4.20m 1959
FAREAST 11 11.48' / 3.50m 2005
FAREAST 26 27.49' / 8.38m 2006
sailboatdata.com blog sailboatdata.com on facebook sailboatdata.com linkedin page Follow sailboatdata.com on Twitter

#31 Tom Ray

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:51 AM

Mocking? I was wondering if he's just been just buying 'em from Hison all along.

-jim lee


No, he has a factory capable of churning out 60 of them per month, but California air quality rules do not allow that many so he only makes 40 a month.

#32 Ajax

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:24 PM

The Chinese are the biggest intellectual property theives on the planet, followed quickly by Russia and Iran.

It's easy to avoid Russian and Persian products, it's not easy to avoid buying Chinese products, but I tell you that no matter how financially stretched I am, I avoid Chinese products any time that an alternative is available.

We (US, Canada, Europe & Anzus) are engaged in all-out, economic fucking warfare people. Thanks to the WTO and free trade agreements, we are not allowed to enact protective tarrifs, but we can choose what to buy. You don't have to buy 'Merican, (but it would be nice!) just buy anything but Chinese!

#33 shanghaisailor

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 03:57 PM

I think you might find Hison are agents for the M 26 here in China - Alibaba is not just used for exports.

And as far as not buying Chinese product, perhaps you should get them to stop buying GM, BMW and VW cars while you are at it.

GM would have gone tits up a lot earlier than they would without Shanghai GM and China is VW's most important market -

Hey Ajax, good for the good old US of A that there is a WTO - eh?

It's called globalisation and started with the Dutch East India Company

jesus Christ man - some people want it all their all side of the dish

SS

#34 Right Coast

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:23 PM

Knocking off a MacGregor 26 is like genetically engineering your very own strain of AIDS.

#35 Tom Ray

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:56 PM

I think you might find Hison are agents for the M 26 here in China - Alibaba is not just used for exports.

And as far as not buying Chinese product, perhaps you should get them to stop buying GM, BMW and VW cars while you are at it.

GM would have gone tits up a lot earlier than they would without Shanghai GM and China is VW's most important market -

Hey Ajax, good for the good old US of A that there is a WTO - eh?

It's called globalisation and started with the Dutch East India Company

jesus Christ man - some people want it all their all side of the dish

SS


Using the name Hison as the brand name would be an odd choice for an authorized agent, but then, so would classifying it as a catamaran.

Bravo on the defense of free trade, though. Not that it should include stealing a successful design.

#36 Ajax

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:03 PM

I think you might find Hison are agents for the M 26 here in China - Alibaba is not just used for exports.

And as far as not buying Chinese product, perhaps you should get them to stop buying GM, BMW and VW cars while you are at it.

GM would have gone tits up a lot earlier than they would without Shanghai GM and China is VW's most important market -

Hey Ajax, good for the good old US of A that there is a WTO - eh?

It's called globalisation and started with the Dutch East India Company

jesus Christ man - some people want it all their all side of the dish

SS


I respectfully disagree, but I'll keep it out of SA.

#37 knuckles

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:05 AM

You should see what else they're knocking off....

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/11/zhuhai/

Posted Image

#38 dolphinmaster

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:24 AM

Nobody wondered if this WAS the original?

-jim lee


you so good. you make me think grasshopper!

#39 facthunt

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:30 AM

globalisation = race to the bottom. short term gain/long term pain

#40 couchsurfer

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:44 AM

globalisation = race to the bottom. short term gain/long term pain


.......not for the global mega-corperations and their executives :mellow:

#41 Tom Ray

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:47 AM

Political Anarchy is a few doors down and pretty far to the left.

#42 facthunt

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:55 AM

thanks tom, go have a look there and report back with anything interesting.

#43 boomer

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:51 PM

Its cultural imperialism of the worst type because now the Chinese will think a good sailing boat is a Mac 26 ... oh the horror, oh the humanity.


They'll probably sell like hotcakes in China.

#44 stranded

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:37 PM

the real ones already have

they are everywhere

#45 couchsurfer

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:54 PM



...quote Boomer.......
''They'll probably sell like hotcakes in China.''



....as said upthread.......watch for mass landings on AUS beaches soon :blink: :blink:

#46 boomer

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:56 PM

Real Aussie sailors would laugh at those toys...

#47 Trickypig

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:51 PM

Real Aussie sailors would laugh at those toys...



The Mac26 is the elevator music of Sailing Anarchy.

It's like hearing a Ray Coniff or Mantovani/1001 strings cover of Dylan or Stones in an elevator. It's just a bit weird.

#48 boomer

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 05:11 PM

Can you imagine dreaming about sailing a Mac 26....to me that would be a horrific nightmare.

But obviously there are those who wouldn't see it as such.

#49 Tom Ray

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:56 PM

Sailors hanging out with sailors. I'd rather hang with this group than a bunch of snobs any day.

http://www.tropicalb...n-bay-2012.html



#50 boomer

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:05 PM

Most sailors I've met like sailing real sailboats and having a good time....and they find snobs to be quite the bore.... ;)

#51 Trickypig

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:44 PM

Sailors hanging out with sailors. I'd rather hang with this group than a bunch of snobs any day.


I won't stop you joining the Mac cult. You and HWSNBN can converse endlessly about why the Mac is such a sound blue water cruiser, won't that be fun?

#52 Bob Perry

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:41 PM

I'm with Tricky on this one. I'm in favor of any boat that introduces people to sailing. My fear with the Mac is that I don't think it performs well enough under sail to win over many people to sailing.
I've seen families happy cruisng their Macs in the San Juans. But I usually see them tied up to the dock. But maybe the way to look at it is like this: If 100 powerboaters buy Mac 26's and 10 of them decide they like sailing then we have ten more sailors and I suspect the next sailboat they buy will have better performance than the Mac.

#53 soak_ed

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:01 PM

I'm with Tricky on this one. I'm in favor of any boat that introduces people to sailing. My fear with the Mac is that I don't think it performs well enough under sail to win over many people to sailing.
I've seen families happy cruisng their Macs in the San Juans. But I usually see them tied up to the dock. But maybe the way to look at it is like this: If 100 powerboaters buy Mac 26's and 10 of them decide they like sailing then we have ten more sailors and I suspect the next sailboat they buy will have better performance than the Mac.


I'm with you on that one Bob, but really, just about any sailboat is going to have better performance than a Mac. Unless the Mac is in the 4th mode, then all bets are off.

#54 Tom Ray

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:02 PM

If you sell 40 boats a month for a lot of years, some are going to wind up sitting. True of any boat, power or sail, performance or not.

Two Mac 26X's in my video above, plus a Hunter, all with owners out enjoying their boats. I like that, no matter what the snobs say.

One of those 26X's was owned by a guy who had just returned from the Everglades Challenge in his other boat. Like many Mac buyers I encountered as a broker and dealer, he knew what he had and knew which boat would make his wife happy on an overnight.

Roger MacGregor has made a lot of people happy by turning a bad idea into a marketable boat, so maybe it's not such a bad idea. I'm happy to hang out with ALL of the West Coast Trailer Sailor Squadron, including the MacGregor and Hunter owners. Don't really care to hang out with anyone who bashes any boat.

#55 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:10 PM

but then, so would classifying it as a catamaran.


Not so fast Tom

The additional observation that the Mac26x dances like a butterfly when on the anchor supports the notion that the vessel is a form of trimaran.



#56 boomer

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:38 PM


Nobody wondered if this WAS the original?

-jim lee


You ought to know better than most here just how hard it is to design and build a boat that will sell 40 copies a month for many, many years, yet you still mock?

Found a buyer for Dart number 5 yet? Roger sold that many the first week of this month, you know. Just like every month. ;)


Hmmm....

They don't cost much and are being sold to neophytes who don't know any better, and being sold by boat sharks, with zero thought of the safety of others.

I wonder how many Mac 26's capsize, or are dismasted, or something else catastrophic every year.

Also wonder how many deaths have been attributed to Mac 26 capsizes in just the past ten years.

I don't call that successful....I call that morally wrong!

#57 4knotSB

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:48 PM

Without actual numbers, I'm missing how you can reach that conclusion. Perhaps we simply think differently.

#58 Tom Ray

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:50 PM



Nobody wondered if this WAS the original?

-jim lee


You ought to know better than most here just how hard it is to design and build a boat that will sell 40 copies a month for many, many years, yet you still mock?

Found a buyer for Dart number 5 yet? Roger sold that many the first week of this month, you know. Just like every month. ;)


Hmmm....

They don't cost much and are being sold to neophytes who don't know any better, and being sold by boat sharks, with zero thought of the safety of others.

I wonder how many Mac 26's capsize, or are dismasted, or something else catastrophic every year.

Also wonder how many deaths have been attributed to Mac 26 capsizes in just the past ten years.

I don't call that successful....I call that morally wrong!


Boomer, your imagination and the reality I experienced barely overlap.

I did sell them and have not met anyone who has capsized one, nor lost a loved one. Besides, a more telling stat would be deaths per unit sold, and a more valid comparison would be across all boats, sail and power, since that one is both.

#59 boomer

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:55 PM

Without actual numbers, I'm missing how you can reach that conclusion.


Watching one get flipped on it's side and capsizing in the Hood Canal....thankfully we were close by and assisted in the rescue.

A couple years later another capsized locally and a young girl and mother drowned.

The one that capsized last year in San Diego resulting in a father and son drowning.

The one that capsized on Lake Champlain resulted in the drownings of the owners children.

Watch one dismasted on the Puget Sound with Hobot on board.

Not hard to speculate at all!



Boomer, your imagination and the reality I experienced barely overlap.


Tell that to the folks who have capsized them...unfortunately you won't be able to tell the folks who drowned.

#60 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:11 AM

Boomer, your imagination and the reality I experienced barely overlap.


So all those folks you sold Macs to were experienced sailors? were they stepping up in size or down?

#61 Tom Ray

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:22 AM

Boomer, your imagination and the reality I experienced barely overlap.


So all those folks you sold Macs to were experienced sailors? were they stepping up in size or down?


No, nor were they all neophytes as you claimed. None that I sold have capsized to my knowledge. Acting like they can only be death traps for neophytes barely overlaps with my experience, as I said. The area of overlap: some neophytes bought them. None capsized or died.

If they were horrible death traps, I doubt 40 a month could sell for 20 years running. Idiots can tip them, just like any boat, but concluding from that that only neophytes buy them and all are doomed to die is foolish based on my experience. Have you been out in one?

#62 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:36 AM

Most the neophytes who've bought them around here, usually take them out a couple times, then they sit tied to their finger pier...till they're sold.

I do occasionally see one motoring at high speed...boy they sure move out under power, with that big outboard. :wacko:

They do have a MacGregor Rendezvous in Poulsbo every summer and you'll see them coming roaring down Liberty Bay with those big outboards doing their thing. Oh...we get to see them sail when they have their regatta the next day, it's almost painful to watch, so I don't. Then the rendezvous ends and they all motor blissfully at high speed into the sunset.

Other then the rendezvous, once in a great while you might see one sailing on the sound, but that's pretty rare.

#63 hobot

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:38 AM

I have always viewed the mast as being the "get home" motor on a Mac26.

#64 Tom Ray

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:43 AM

Most the neophytes who've bought them around here, usually take them out a couple times, then they sit tied to their finger pier...till they're sold.

I do occasionally see one motoring at high speed...boy they sure move out under power, with that big outboard. :wacko:

They do have a MacGregor Rendezvous in Poulsbo every summer and you'll see them coming roaring down Liberty Bay with those big outboards doing their thing. Oh...we get to see them sail when they have their regatta the next day, it's almost painful to watch, so I don't. Then the rendezvous ends and they all motor blissfully at high speed into the sunset.

Other then the rendezvous, once in a great while you might see one sailing on the sound, but that's pretty rare.


I'll take that as a "no, I've never been out in one." I have.

Have you ever met a broker or dealer who has sold them? Because it sounds like you're speaking from ignorance and not experience on that subject too.

#65 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:45 AM

I have always viewed the mast as being the "get home" motor on a Mac26.


and then when the mast fell down and they got a tow.... :wacko:

#66 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:50 AM

I have.


Impressed were ya?

#67 Tom Ray

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 01:39 AM

I have.


Impressed were ya?


I'll take that as a "no, I have not met any of the people I called amoral sharks." Again, I have.

No, again your assumptions are divorced from reality. I'm not impressed with the boats, mostly because I think they are a bad idea. I like my powerboats to be good powerboats, and the Mac is a really lousy powerboat. It barely planes, pounds like crazy, rolls badly in crossing seas, and that darn mast is something that can screw up any powerboat. Also, it's a pretty poor sailboat, but not nearly as bad a sailboat as it is a powerboat. Still, it could be a better sailboat if it were not trying so hard to be a powerboat. The combination is a bad idea, at least to me. Many owners I have met disagree for their own various reasons. Good for them, I say.

However, several things about the boats did impress me. For one, MacGregor was the only manufacturer with a nearly unblemished record of delivering a complete, undamaged, intact, non-leaking boat to our dealership. I believe the one exception was a shipping incident. Several more reputable manufacturers delivered various problems to us on more than one occasion. They made it right, but that's not as good as not screwing up in the first place.

The other thing that impressed me was how they held up over time. I sold several that were over ten years old and despite the light construction and rigging, they were holding together about as well as other production boats at that age.

Last but not least, I was never once afraid that a Mac would roll on its side, possibly because I had the sense to ensure the ballast tank was full when not planing and to keep weight low. My opinion is that people who capsize boats are generally asking for it, and that includes MacGregor boats.

#68 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:17 AM

Sounds like your assumptions are divorced from reality.


That's good.... :lol:

I know I'd never consider walking into a yacht or boat sales who sold Macs.

Also, you really don't want to hear how I really feel, about those who sell Macs.

You know, you'd probably make a great used car salesman...in fact, your probably a born salesman....ever think about going into sales full time?

#69 floating dutchman

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:26 AM

so Booms your not going to take an honest opion from somone who has accualy had a bit to do with these boat's?

You sound like the fella that says electric cars are bad because the concept doesn't suit ME, Never mind the fact that it works for lot's of other folk.
No one is making you buy one Boomer.

I still think that from all the boat's they could have stolen, This is the funniest!

#70 Tom Ray

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:43 AM

I still think that from all the boat's they could have stolen, This is the funniest!


Seems a sensible choice to me, if the goal is to make money and not to impress Sailing Anarchy boat snobs.

They could have splashed the Left Coast Dart, a much nicer sailboat, but then they might be trying to figure out how to sell that fifth one like Jim Lee is. 40 per month for about 20 years is what Roger has sold. Laughing all the way to the bank.

#71 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:55 AM

Booms your not going to take an honest opion from somone who has accualy had a bit to do with these boat's?......No one is making you buy one Boomer.



I'm usually a nice guy partner, so in this case I'll keep it nice....


No one is making me buy one....nor have I ever endorsed one

The majority of Macs or Ventures , that I've seen tied to docks, after the owners bought them, used them out a few times, then sold them...speaks volumes.

I've only ever met one owner in 40+ years, who has kept one ...he's an owner of the under canvased, under rigged and under built Venture 25...which he spent a lot of time and money upgrading.

Every Mac owner I've every met, became a former Mac Owner....and to be kind,I won't tell you what they've said about them.

At the owners request I've sailed more then a few Ventures and Macs considerably, just to make sure the owner's got as much input possible, to get the most out of them under sail.

In all that time, I can't say I've every been impressed with any of them. for various reasons....and I'm sure you know what they are.

The only good thing I have to say about the MacGregors....is the unsinkable feature of the Ventures and the Macs.

#72 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:34 AM

40 per month for about 20 years is what Roger has sold...Laughing all the way to the bank.


"Laughing all the way to the bank"....I'll be kind and reserve making a statement on that.

I will say this....From what I've read and heard....the wife of founder of MacGregor, after looking at the Ventures...insisted he fill them with enough foam blocks to make them unsinkable, because she couldn't bare the responsibility of a tragedy...and all she had to do is look at them, to request this feature.

That speaks volumes of itself.

#73 Great White

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:54 AM

I have always viewed the mast as being the "get home" motor on a Mac26.

If you get into the Mac forums, you will read that a lot of the owners think that, a power boat with an auxilliary sail.

#74 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 04:06 AM

Sailing Anarchy boat snobs.


Those who stick around and don't leave Sailing Anarchy, for the most part are experienced and safe sailors with lot's of years of experience. Most of the rest who stick around are those who may have from zero to considerable experience, with a passion for sailing and doing it in a safe, prudent and seamanship manner , and a desire to learn more. There are probably very few of them who are snobbish sailors.....These sailors are the real deal, and for the most part, and are going to express concerns about boats of choice,whether it be a go fast, a 4 knot-er or a capable cruiser....and are far from being boat snobs.

#75 Dale dug a hole

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 06:25 AM

Shit Boomer your new avatar pic looks a bit to much like....

ummm

Posted Image

#76 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 06:31 AM

Ahh...the shiitt stirrer is here.

Want me to change it for ya big girl?

BTW...what do ya focus on, when your sucking on your thumb....want me send ya a new blanky.... :lol:

#77 Dale dug a hole

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 06:37 AM

Want me to change it for ya big girl?

BTW...what do ya focus on, when your sucking on your thumb.... :lol:

WTF? :lol:

Attached File  boomermaybe.jpg   10.65K   2 downloads

#78 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 06:40 AM

What a tweeb...

Well don't just sit there sucking on your thumb...ya dumb shiitt

#79 Dale dug a hole

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 06:45 AM

What a tweeb...

Well don't just sit there sucking on your thumb...ya dumb shiitt


Tweeb? I dont have a mobile phone.

So fuck off. ya old codger

#80 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 06:45 AM

That's right your just another idiot who takes pictures of himself standing in front of border crossings in America....and goes on rants cutting down America, after being so infatuated with taking a trip over here....have another VB twinkletoes....we all know your a shitt stirrer and a wanker :lol:


Don't have a mobile phone, but you have a computer....

I can't help you if your a knucklehead and a shitt stirrer....oh yea, how does it feel being in the shitt business.



From what I've seen, this old codger could whip your sorry ass blindfolded....time to get in shape boy....

....and please take that thumb outta your mouth....that tooth will just keep getting more twisted.

Posted Image

#81 Dale dug a hole

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 07:01 AM

Hey I see you've logged in, not as a anonymous user.

Good for you.

OK I'll get off your lawn.

YA, stupid old codger.

#82 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 07:04 AM

You ready to drop it...I know I don't like it....I've always been a peacemaker...but at the same time, I never back down.

Make your peace then and shake hands.

#83 Dale dug a hole

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 07:21 AM

You ready to drop it...I know I don't like it....I've always been a peacemaker...but at the same time, I never back down.

Make your peace then and shake hands.

What sort of bullshit is that. I'm not a fucking employee dumb ass.

Back down, :lol:

#84 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 07:28 AM

I'm a fucking dumb ass.



I know your a dumb ass...tell me something I don't know.... ;)

#85 Dale dug a hole

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 07:31 AM


What sort of bullshit is that. I'm not a fucking employee dumb ass.

Back down, :lol:

I know your a dumb ass...tell me something I don't know.....


Is this a respect elder thing?

#86 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 07:35 AM

Tell ya what....hold that thought....and get yourself another VB....and I'll get another cup of coffee.

...and yes....gotta grind the beans and all the rest.....so it's gonna be a while.

#87 Dale dug a hole

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 07:54 AM

Fuck its like talking to my old man :wacko:

Umm, boogler.

Two words...

Time Zones... :lol: ya dick HEad

#88 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:08 AM

How old are ya ....genetically maybe your older then me.

Is your old man alive....how's the ticker doing? How's your blood pressure? Still seeing bright spots in your vision?

Have you been having pain or uneasiness...is your skin tingly.

Perhaps it's time to cut back on the VB....don't wanna have a stroke.

Time to start taking some daily walks...1/2 an hour at a stretch...in the morning and the evening.

Maybe in a month you can start really working out...in a couple months jumping rope.

#89 Dale dug a hole

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:35 AM

You are a special member of SA and CA Boogler.

#90 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:39 AM

So how ya feeling?

BTW... Googler, you seem to google more then many.

Shall we show your browsing history?

Whatta ya say Googler?

#91 Dale dug a hole

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:47 AM

So how ya feeling?

Really? Honestly?

Well I guess I should be honest. I dont work, last job I had was about 2 weeks ago... :(

I've been doing some tiling for a person, but she hasn't paid me! Something to do with 'well you own it as well'

what the fuck is up with that :blink:

Oh well, maybe Boogler can help me step up. :lol:

Read the hand :D .

#92 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:50 AM

what the fuck is up with that


Shall we show all YOUR googling?

YOU REALLY READY TO BE HONEST

#93 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:53 AM

How's your moral compass?

#94 Tom Ray

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 11:18 AM

40 per month for about 20 years is what Roger has sold...Laughing all the way to the bank.


"Laughing all the way to the bank"....I'll be kind and reserve making a statement on that.

I will say this....From what I've read and heard....the wife of founder of MacGregor, after looking at the Ventures...insisted he fill them with enough foam blocks to make them unsinkable, because she couldn't bare the responsibility of a tragedy...and all she had to do is look at them, to request this feature.

That speaks volumes of itself.


A rumor about a wife worried because lead mines are known for sinking speaks volumes? I suppose so. Too bad we don't have bigamy. She could have also married whoever made the J-24. :lol:

My opinion of MacGregor powersailers prior to my experiences selling them was a lot closer to your current opinion, but exposure to the boats and the owners changed that. I have personally seen people buy them, decide they like sailing, sell them, and buy better sailboats. That's something that should not be happening, according to your view. The reality I experienced is more convincing to me than your brushes with a few of the ten thousand or so of these boats that are out there in the world.

#95 Dale dug a hole

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 11:40 AM

what the fuck is up with that


Shall we show all YOUR googling?

YOU REALLY READY TO BE HONEST

Go for it..

#96 ecosse4me

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:24 PM

Far East Boat Co.
2002-
www.fareastboats.com

Shanghai Far East FRP Boat Co., Ltd. is recognized as the biggest dinghy builder in China. The goal is to produce various high quality sailboats and boat fittings for our customers. “Even better than our faith is the honesty of our objective.”
In the same year, Far East was licensed by the International Sailing Federation (ISAF) to build the Optimist and now have become the biggest Optimist builder in the world with a yearly capacity of approximately 2000 Optimist hulls. More recently, Far East also became an ISAF licensed builder of the 420 and started the plan to diversify the product range to Kayak and other sailboats.
Far East is also the sole distributor of Laser in the mainland China and serves China’s national sailing team in their daily training and regatta performance.

Shanghai Far East FRP Boat Co., Ltd.
Room 209, Focus Business Center, No.2468 Gudai Rd, Minhang District, Shanghai, 201100, P.R.China
Tel: +86-21-6728 5977 6728 5978
Fax: +86-21-6728 5976
Email: fareast@fareastboats.com

BY THIS BUILDER:
(Dates indicate when a boat was first built by ANY Builder)
NAME/TYPE LOA First Built
English / Metric
OPTIMIST DINGHY (INT) 7.67' / 2.34m 1947
420 13.78' / 4.20m 1959
FAREAST 11 11.48' / 3.50m 2005
FAREAST 26 27.49' / 8.38m 2006
sailboatdata.com blog sailboatdata.com on facebook sailboatdata.com linkedin page Follow sailboatdata.com on Twitter


I like the look of their 26, would prefer it with an asymmetric though, but nice headroom and space down below on a fun looking hull. Wonder what their 33 will look like.

#97 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 04:02 PM


40 per month for about 20 years is what Roger has sold...Laughing all the way to the bank.


"Laughing all the way to the bank"....I'll be kind and reserve making a statement on that.

I will say this....From what I've read and heard....the wife of founder of MacGregor, after looking at the Ventures...insisted he fill them with enough foam blocks to make them unsinkable, because she couldn't bare the responsibility of a tragedy...and all she had to do is look at them, to request this feature.

That speaks volumes of itself.


A rumor about a wife worried because lead mines are known for sinking speaks volumes? I suppose so. Too bad we don't have bigamy. She could have also married whoever made the J-24. :lol:/>

My opinion of MacGregor powersailers prior to my experiences selling them was a lot closer to your current opinion, but exposure to the boats and the owners changed that. I have personally seen people buy them, decide they like sailing, sell them, and buy better sailboats. That's something that should not be happening, according to your view. The reality I experienced is more convincing to me than your brushes with a few of the ten thousand or so of these boats that are out there in the world.


More then just J-24's can sink. Something tells me she made the request, more then just because of a possible capsize.

Why would you say by my view, they wouldn't later buy a better boat, because there are a percentage of those who have.

There are also a small percentage of those who like the Macs, and keep them because of there power abilities.

How many years did you sell Macs and how many do you know that have them, probably not much more then I've met over the years.

How many Macs or Ventures have you seen sailing or powering when it really starts get more then breezy conditions.

Would you sail or power a Mac when it's blowing over 25-30 kts, the same question for the Ventures? or would you run for cover or not go out?

You said above, you have seen those who are not novices, buy a Mac....what sailboats did they own previously, and if any of these were decent sailboats, why get a Mac?

You said they're lousy powerboats and poor sailboats....from that I'd conclude you don't endorse them....why would you recommend one then?

Do people buy Macs and become introduced to boat ownership and all that goes with it....certainly they do, and some even enjoy them.

Do experienced sailors who've had numerous sailboats over the years, suddenly sell a sailboat and buy a Mac because they want a power boat? From my experience over the years most experienced sailors, when they're ready to give up sailing, but still want to play on the water, usually don't buy a Mac...not to say there are those who have.

Do you still recommend Macs to sailors or powerboaters?..... I know I wouldn't, nor do I know any sailors or powerboaters who would.

#98 Rasputin22

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 04:47 PM

I met a guy years back who was a proud Macgregor 26 owner and was about half way through an ambitious trip in the boat. He launched up somewhere near Pt Barrow and then sailied(motored) past the Arctic Circle up the Mackenzie River across the contenental divide and then down the tributaries of the Mississippi River. The Mac people were going nuts as they were afraid that all owners would think that their boats were mean't for such foolishness. Mike Dunn, quite a guy and I called him Mike 'Been There, Dunn That'. He was taking a break from his venture in the Virgin Islands before heading south to sail up the Orinoco and then portage across the Andes ala Tristam Jones (in reverse though) and then sail down through the Chilean coast to Patagonia. If he survived that, he was hoping to round the Horn and then make the passage to Anarctica. Seems like the easy pace of life and Rum of St John changed his priorities and I don't think he did the last half of the epic voyage.



Carson City man plans boat trip of two continents, with Internet crew


Bob Kretschman

Friday, Feb. 28, 1997 | 11:59 a.m.

CARSON CITY - Mike Dunn plans to spend the next year and a half sailing rivers from northern Canada to the southern tip of South America, and everyone is invited.

Dunn's 16,000-mile expedition, called "Waterways of the Americas," will be chronicled on a custom web page on the Internet, and Dunn is recruiting worldwide for members of a "Cybercrew" that will help him complete the voyage.

"In essence, all I am is a travel guide," he said.

He might be one of the most knowledgable travel guides a web surfer can find.

Dunn, 47, is a professional expedition/adventure travel guide who has climbed the seven highest peaks in the world, including Mount Everest. He said he has visited every country in the world except North Korea and Albania, and he once led Neil Armstrong, the first man on the moon, and Sir Edmund Hillary, the first Westerner to top Mount Everest, on a trip to the North Pole. He also helped scout the sites for several small research stations in Antarctica.

"I came up with this project when I was stuck in a snow cave on Everest in '89," he said.

With two computers, two banks of batteries, three modems, and two global-positioning monitors loaded onto his 26-foot state-of-the-art sailboat, "Zeno's Arrow," Dunn will be able to communicate with people throughout the world during his trip.

Many of those travel fans already have signed up as members of Dunn's "Cybercrew" and are helping him plan logistics and line up supplies along his route. After the voyage begins, Dunn's "Cybercrew" will send him weather forecasts and assist with navigation. They'll help him find vehicles to transport his boat overland between rivers, and they'll help him find locations to refuel and take on provisions.

In some cases, with the help of the Global Positioning System and a computer link with the boat's autopilot, they'll be able to direct the craft while Dunn sleeps aboard.

"This has never been done before on the Internet. This is right on the edge," Dunn said.

Dunn plans frequent live discussions with Internet visitors, and he'll place photographs and a journal of his voyage on the website. A map of the route in Dunn's website will contain links to local websites along the way, such as chambers of commerce and other businesses, so his followers can get a feel for the places he's visiting.

The expedition's goal, he said, is to make the places he visits accessible to everyone by way of their computers.

"It equalizes everyone on the crew," he said. "A kid with disabilities who helps with the expedition can be as effective as a retired four-star general."

Dunn is especially excited about the possibility that schoolchildren will be able to follow his progress and help with the trip. He said he's had "Cybercrew" sign-ups from throughout the world.

"We're looking now for Nevada schools. I'd like to involve all these schools that are going on-line," he said.

He's also looking for corporate sponsors to help foot the bill for his on-line communications. It will cost him about $1 per minute for a live broadcast from the boat to the website, and he'd like to spend an hour a day, six days per week, communicating on the computer with people around the world during his trip.

Dunn said equipping the boat and the expedition cost about $70,000, and he'll need at least another $24,000 to pay for an hour a day on the Internet. He has a few sponsors - among them are North Sails of Minden, Powernet of Reno, and Onramp Internet Websites of Carson City, which created Dunn's elaborate website - but he said there is room for more.

Next week, Dunn plans to take his boat to Olympia, Wash., to begin the initial leg of his trip. He'll travel up the coast and should land in Skagway, Alaska, in mid-June. He'll sail and haul the boat northward to Inuvik, where he'll start his trip southward up the Mackenzie River. He hopes the trip won't end until he reaches Cape Horn at the southern tip of South America. The entire trip should take 18-22 months, Dunn estimated.

Dunn said he has visited most of the rivers where he will travel.

"This is the first time they've been plugged together into something like this, connecting the inland waterways of North and South America," he said. "I'm looking forward to sharing these places with people. I'm looking forward to meeting people along the way."

That includes thousands of people who Dunn hopes will follow his expedition and share their thoughts with him through the Internet.

"When you have 10 people looking at a sunset and they all start talking about it, you learn things you didn't know. Imagine what that's like when you have 10,000 people," he said.

--


#99 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:02 PM

Good ol maddmike, he and HWSNBN are legends on the Mac forums....further proof that....aw nevermind... :lol:

http://www.macgregor...=10442&start=45

http://www.macgregor...t=9766&start=30



Posted Imageby maddmike » Tue May 20, 2008 12:29 am
oops, looks like here we go again- time to get out the popcorn?

Gotta love it! First time I've ever been accused of being worried about someone throwing a law suit my way. If that were the case I would never have built hang-gliders and trained people to fly them, dragged folks up the seven summits, pushed them out of airplanes etc. did have a lawyer say he was going to take me to court once for not getting him out of the antarctic on time because of weather and a damaged plane; told him if he was going to do that I might as well get a few punches in while we were still in Antarctica, just to see who ended up with juristiction (sorry about the spelling the keys on this board are worn out-no letters and I'm a hunt and pick guy). Never heard from him again.

Don't care much who thinks their boat is something it's not as long as they don't influence someone new who does not know better to do something stupid just because some guy writes something on this board (and yes, that includes me).

For you new folks out there, any opinions on what can or can't be done in any venue, say like a barside chat from an armchair climber on what to do when things go sour at 8000M on the north face of Everest, or opinions on how to handle yourself in a jungle firefight from someone who wasn't '11 Bravo' and been there done that'' should be considered just that, armchair çhat'.'My experience has been that for the most part when someone gives advice without hard earned experience they are not doing anyone a favor.I've got friends who sail mini-transats, I don't so I'll leave any comments to them on that topic (though I do have my opinions, not to be shared for lack of really knowing what I'm talking about-the numbers and stats yes, the 'boat time, no.).

All of the stock rudder/mount systems (yes though improved) can not handle repeated breaking waves abeam the boat (this I know for sure). For those considering extreme conditions with a stock boat, I have a simple suggested test. Trailer your boat to the nearest friendly fire station and ask the boys to blast the bottom 1/3 of a rudder locked in the down position with a 2 1/2 inch hose stream for a few min. from about 2 feet away. Not very scientific, but after you pick up whats left of your rudder and mount you'll get the picture of what happens in rough open ocean conditions when a breaking wave pushes a MAC sideways. The MAC does not respond like a keelboat, it surfs sideways, which is actually a good thing, except that your rudders and mounts tend to go away. Hopefully, I'll get some pix of how I 'somewhat' addressed this issue.

Last topic, my sailing does not revolve around the internet and I often don't spend time here because I'm often out doing stuff: like right now I'm on because I'm waiting out a nasty monsoon downpour and if you think that would not be fun in a MAC, you should try it in an open old wooden Cambodian fishing boat sometime (thank God for GPS's).

Also, I'll get some pix of the outriggers, but just so you know I do not use them on open crossings including to Hawaii.

mm

#100 Tom Ray

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:10 PM

More then just J-24's can sink. Something tells me she made the request, more then just because of a possible capsize.

Why would you say by my view, they wouldn't later buy a better boat, because there are a percentage of those who have.

There are also a small percentage of those who like the Macs, and keep them because of there power abilities.

How many years did you sell Macs and how many do you know that have them, probably not much more then I've met over the years.

How many Macs or Ventures have you seen sailing or powering when it really starts get more then breezy conditions.

Would you sail or power a Mac when it's blowing over 25-30 kts, the same question for the Ventures? or would you run for cover or not go out?

You said above, you have seen those who are not novices, buy a Mac....what sailboats did they own previously, and if any of these were decent sailboats, why get a Mac?

You said they're lousy powerboats and poor sailboats....from that I'd conclude you don't endorse them....why would you recommend one then?

Do people buy Macs and become introduced to boat ownership and all that goes with it....certainly they do, and some even enjoy them.

Do experienced sailors who've had numerous sailboats over the years, suddenly sell a sailboat and buy a Mac because they want a power boat? From my experience over the years most experienced sailors, when they're ready to give up sailing, but still want to play on the water, usually don't buy a Mac...not to say there are those who have.

Do you still recommend Macs to sailors or powerboaters?..... I know I wouldn't, nor do I know any sailors or powerboaters who would.


Wow, that's a lot of questions. I sold boats for 5 years and the dealership handled Macs for 3 of those years. I sold more used ones than new ones. I was not particularly successful in selling them compared to others in the office, possibly because of my opinions on the boats, possibly just luck of the draw.

I have gotten caught in one squall in a 26M. It was about as fun as any other squall I have been caught in.

One example of an experienced sailor who bought a Mac would be the owner of a partner dealership, also a dealer. He owned a long string of boats all his life. His reason was the same as many in the Fort Myers area: in a non-planing boat, it's barely possible to get out to decent sailing water, sail half an hour, and get back in a day. In a Mac, they can blast down to open water like the rest of the powerboats, reach around on good sailing angles for a several hours, then blast back in a day. More sailing. Not better sailing, but more.

I would ask people what they wanted to do with a boat and then what it was likely that they actually would do. In some cases, their answers would lead me to mention Mac powersailers as an alternative and sometimes they would buy one. If I went back to selling boats, I'd follow the same process and expect the same results. And not feel a bit badly about it.




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