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Sydney 40 tiller


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#1 Drop Bear.

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:27 PM

Does anyone know whether any sydney 40 shipped with or are currently using the tiller?

I believe they were an option and I am thinking about switching.

Does anyone know if there is a tiller about?
What are the boats like with a tiller?

Thanks.

#2 AVID

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:45 AM

A few non australian Sydney 38's went with tillers. With a lot of F40 programs going to tiller, that's where I would be looking for insperation.

That said, I would only consider a tiller on a 40 footer if all I was doing was racing inshore around the cans. Any offshore, long distance, or deliveries stick with the wheel.

#3 Drop Bear.

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:07 PM

Thanks.
The issue is the significant wheel well that I assume the standard tiller has a solution for.

Yep only inshore.

Offshore or deliveries could be autopilot. Consensus of people who are much better sailors than I is an autopilot is more accurate anyhow.

#4 Robin

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:42 PM

I own one of the 38s with a tiller. The hulls of the 38 and 40 are very similar as are the deck layouts. From there they are quite different in rig and in weight. Unlike AVID I have owned much bigger and heavier boats with a tiller and much prefer that to a wheel. Even for offshore racing. At some point there is a switch over but not, in my opinion, at 40 ft. That said I do not believe that there is any 40 that had a "factory" supplied tiller conversion and it would be a pure custom job. I am not sure the expense would be worth the either the trouble or the marginal performance improvement that comes from the tiller.

Robin

#5 Life Buoy 15

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:22 PM

The conversion from Wheel to tiller on a F40 requires a new rudder as I understand it. The top of the rudder stock is quite different and I think the wheel versions are slightly less raked to give the wheel version slight weather helm to lean on. I am looking at buying a F40 at the moment - the purest in me wants a tiller but the businessman in me (I will use it in my sailing school) tells me punters and those new to the sport like standing behind a big wheel. Personally I don't think 40ft is too big for a tiller. I used to own a Davidson 40 with a tiller and sittin down is more comfortable than standin up offshore! If you are finding swinging off a tiller on a reach hard work you don’t need a wheel - just better trimmers.

I recall a Davidson 55 called Great fun at one of the earlier Clipper cups in Hawaii - might have been '80 or 82'- but it had a tiller about 12 feet long. Needed a helo landing pad to swing it in!


#6 Drop Bear.

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:10 PM

I own one of the 38s with a tiller. The hulls of the 38 and 40 are very similar as are the deck layouts. From there they are quite different in rig and in weight. Unlike AVID I have owned much bigger and heavier boats with a tiller and much prefer that to a wheel. Even for offshore racing. At some point there is a switch over but not, in my opinion, at 40 ft. That said I do not believe that there is any 40 that had a "factory" supplied tiller conversion and it would be a pure custom job. I am not sure the expense would be worth the either the trouble or the marginal performance improvement that comes from the tiller.

Robin


Thanks.

Do you know if it's a lift out and drop in job?

To me it doesn't look to be a big job... The biggest bit looks to be the wheel well - which appears to be a single piece connected to the deck, which has as part of it the setup for runners, checks and back stay.

Wanna swap for my wheel?
:-)

#7 Robin

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:32 PM

I have never been on a Sydney 40 but here is what I would look at. I assume the rudder head comes through the deck for purposes of attaching an emergency tiller if so the job would be easy depending on the following:
  • after removing wheel and well is there sufficient distance between rudder head and any part of traveller/maintrim/hydrolics that a tiller of sufficient length can be inserted
  • Remeber, depending on how you like to tack or jibe (do you go over the tiller or in front of) you need to have that space as well.
  • You need to devise a proper seating station for the helmsman. Chocks or other non skid devices are not sufficient upwind. Needs a proper foot brace from each side of the cockpit.
  • Remember that you need to leave enough room between the Helmsman with his extended tiller (therefor further in forward than wheel) and the Main Winch for the Main Trimmer.
  • Sawzall will get rid of the wheel well but I would not begin with out being sure of need tiller length.
  • One of the things that was done for the 38 to substantially improve its performance (less quirkey) over the 40 was (I believe I am correct in the following) to make the rudder itself slightly deeper and more balanced. So a rudder rebuild might be in order.
Robin

#8 Drop Bear.

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:15 AM

Cheers Robin.
All good advice.

Rudder is the new bigger job. And she has a new keel this year too.

#9 MSA

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:26 AM

I own one of the 38s with a tiller. The hulls of the 38 and 40 are very similar as are the deck layouts. From there they are quite different in rig and in weight. Unlike AVID I have owned much bigger and heavier boats with a tiller and much prefer that to a wheel. Even for offshore racing. At some point there is a switch over but not, in my opinion, at 40 ft. That said I do not believe that there is any 40 that had a "factory" supplied tiller conversion and it would be a pure custom job. I am not sure the expense would be worth the either the trouble or the marginal performance improvement that comes from the tiller.

Robin


By very similar you mean the same with 2 feet on the back right??? Someone might be able to elaborate more, But wasn't the mold extended to make the 40?

Contact these guys http://www.innovatio...posites.com.au/ They are basically Sydney Yachts.. They have all the Molds and files for the Sydney boats. I'm sure they have it all on file. Probably even do a kit for you.

#10 Robin

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:22 PM

Actually it was the other way around. And as the 40 was less than 40 and 38 longer than 38 the first 38 mold was a modified 40 mold. The the first deck mold for the 38 is also a modified 40 deck mold. Exact proportions I can not give you.

Robin

#11 Drop Bear.

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:29 PM

Actually it was the other way around. And as the 40 was less than 40 and 38 longer than 38 the first 38 mold was a modified 40 mold. The the first deck mold for the 38 is also a modified 40 deck mold. Exact proportions I can not give you.

Robin


You're right on it being the other way around but wrong on the length. The 40 is 12.5m.

Thanks for the website. I'll chase them.




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