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Largest One Design Participation Numbers?


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#1 Boo-Yah

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:00 PM

Where is one design going? Outside of the one man Opti and Laser. Which class is putting the largest number of boats on the line? Who is throwing the largest NA's or Worlds. Which training boat can you invest in today where you would be confident to find others to sail against?

#2 krash

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:08 PM

F18 and A cat worlds both drew over 100 boats this year. Both have active fleets all over the US

#3 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:11 PM

That's where I'd go for 1 or 2 man. To be part of the big multi-class events, I'd go with a Melges 24 or Viper, or for the more amateur class/or for those who don't want to be on their ear in the breeze, (depending on where the rules end up), a J/70. If I lived in South Florida and was older or less fit, maybe a Star.

#4 MidPack

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:15 PM

Here ya go...
http://racing.ussail...vey Results.pdf

#5 Hobie Dog

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:50 PM

There have been articles on the front page, yes there really is a front page on SA :lol: , that listed number of boats attending Nationals going back several years so that you could see the trend in the various OD classes. Forget who put it together but it is really cool. Maybe Clean can dig up the old article and post again or get said Anarchist to update with this years data. It is a much better indication of class strength than boats registered with US Sailing.

You can take a list like this as a starting point and then research what is also active in your local area and not just once a year at the National level.

#6 GlitterBomb

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:02 PM

That's where I'd go for 1 or 2 man. To be part of the big multi-class events, I'd go with a Melges 24 or Viper, or for the more amateur class/or for those who don't want to be on their ear in the breeze, (depending on where the rules end up), a J/70. If I lived in South Florida and was older or less fit, maybe a Star.


Hey asshat, I am having a hard time visualizing how any of those "stay in the boat" classes (M24, Viper, J/70) require a fraction of the fitness that even a middle of the fleet star does.

#7 Timbo

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:28 PM

Viper NA's (our Inter-Galatics, Gold Cup, Worldly thing) is growing every year. We just had 44 on the line in M-Head this September. We will have 25+ @ several regional events in 2013.

#8 6924

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:36 PM

Depends on what you define as participation rate and your location -


For full on participation defined by number of boats racing number of times - it is hands down the Schock Harbor 20s in SoCal, hard core anarchists may gag, but it is the truth - in ordinary beer can races they get 30+ boats on the line. In the May-Sept season, Harbor 20s race M-T-W-T-F every week plus weekend races. The Harbor 20s race more than 150 days a year. No traveling regatta and no "NAs" to speak of

For NAs - Scooter has a spreadsheet which lists the NA participation rate.

#9 mikeholt

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:30 PM

188 505's at this years Worlds.

#10 NYBOZO1

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:28 PM

Harbor 20 is about the stupidest frickin boat I have ever seen.

However, good for beginners doing bumper car sailing.

#11 DryArmour

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:07 PM

Harbor 20 is about the stupidest frickin boat I have ever seen.

However, good for beginners doing bumper car sailing.


I actually enjoyed my Harbor 20 "TOTALLY SCHOCKED" very much. My boys were little and the boat was well balanced and a lot of fun to sail in even the modest breeze in Newport Harbour. Racing was casual and win or lose we always had a fun time. While not perfect, the electric motor made cocktailing around the Harbour great for our guests at Christmas time. I do miss that little boat. Stupid or not.

#12 Jkondz

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:26 AM

J24 worlds drew 98. Many great local OD fleets across the country and boats can be had for a reasonable price.

#13 6924

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:45 AM

NYBOZ,

Well well, then come in Down to Newport and humiliate everyone if you are so dang Bad Ass.

The Fleet would Love to learn just how incredibly Awesome you are

#14 Mr. Fixit's brother,, Mr. Fixit

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:08 AM

From your location a Lafitte skiff might be the ticket.. Pilottown?

#15 6924

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:55 PM


NYBOZ,

All Talk

What a Wussie


#16 NYBOZO1

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 06:09 PM

Newport Harbor is a great place! Sailed there several times last year.

Love to come back.

I am certain I could have beaten a lady Sabot sailor whose rudder kept falling off. And maybe one other who kept finding herself going backwards.

#17 6924

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 09:45 PM

NYBOZ,

Great PM me w/ your info And I Set up something for you

#18 fastyacht

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:06 PM

From your location a Lafitte skiff might be the ticket.. Pilottown?


Lafitte Skiff?!
I haven't seen one of them since the mid-90s when I went into the Bayous looking for local boatbuilding. Never saw one with a sail though, but I did learn how the woodies went together.

#19 dcbsheb

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:42 PM

It depends on what you are looking to get out of it. If you are looking for a class to get your entire family involved in, you can't go wrong with something like a Lightning or a Thistle. Typically draw large numbers to major events. Active fleets nationwide. Very family friendly classes with junior sailing events.

#20 Christian

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 11:29 PM

Dragons typically have 100+ boats for their major races. For the 75th anniversary regatta in St. Tropez there were 260 boats - not many classes can top that

#21 Mr. Fixit's brother,, Mr. Fixit

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 11:55 PM


From your location a Lafitte skiff might be the ticket.. Pilottown?


Lafitte Skiff?!
I haven't seen one of them since the mid-90s when I went into the Bayous looking for local boatbuilding. Never saw one with a sail though, but I did learn how the woodies went together.

their sails have lots of holes in the, not good for wind much but the shrimp don't get away..

#22 RogerJolly

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:03 AM

I've been tracking attendance at class championships in North America for a few years now. The early lists had a lot of omissions but I think the most recent ones present a good measure of what people are racing in North America.

Survey Links

2002
http://www.sailingan...3/od_survey.htm

2003
http://www.sailingan...sign survey.htm

2004
http://www.sailingan...4_od_survey.htm

2005
http://www.sailingan...gndurvey_06.htm

2006
http://www.sailingan...06_odsurvey.php

2007
http://www.sailingan...cle.php?get=802

2008
http://www.sailingan...le.php?get=2788

2009
http://forums.sailin...howtopic=101294

2010
http://www.sailingan...le.php?get=6344

2011
http://www.sailingan...le.php?get=8409

#23 Hobie Dog

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:10 PM

Thanks Roger Jolly! Can we expect one for 2012 soon?

#24 RogerJolly

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:38 AM

Thanks Roger Jolly! Can we expect one for 2012 soon?


A little behind this year but I'm working on it.

#25 fastyacht

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:03 AM

Roger, did you read Saving Sailing by Nicholas Hayes?

#26 RogerJolly

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:29 PM

Roger, did you read Saving Sailing by Nicholas Hayes?


No but I suppose I should one of these days.

#27 Hobie Dog

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:47 PM


Thanks Roger Jolly! Can we expect one for 2012 soon?


A little behind this year but I'm working on it.


Cool!

#28 RogerJolly

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 12:33 PM



Thanks Roger Jolly! Can we expect one for 2012 soon?


A little behind this year but I'm working on it.


Cool!


On the front page

#29 fevasailor

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 12:59 PM

The RS Feva is a youth double handed that had to be limited to 200 boats for the 2012 and 2013 worlds, UK nationals drew in around 120 boats I believe, but I'm not sure how big they are in the US.... apparently, the Q'ba is more popular...

#30 ThreeSheets

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:26 PM

Roger,

Are you changing the *Top* classes year to year? Are you accounting for people that sold their V15 to a Viper or jumped from a J/2x to a 105 or 109??
Is OD participation the same...just spread to more classes?

#31 Hobie Dog

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:34 PM




Thanks Roger Jolly! Can we expect one for 2012 soon?


A little behind this year but I'm working on it.


Cool!


On the front page


Awesome! Thanks!!!

#32 RogerJolly

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:21 PM

Roger,

Are you changing the *Top* classes year to year? Are you accounting for people that sold their V15 to a Viper or jumped from a J/2x to a 105 or 109??
Is OD participation the same...just spread to more classes?


The 25 classes used for the index are the top numbers in that year, not necisarily the top ranked 25 which is based on a three year average. For example the Viper 640 counted in the index this year but has not quite made it into the top 25 yet.
If people were spreading out across more classes that would show up as a decline in the index. I don't see any evidence of that but I have not looked too closely at it.

#33 kschultz419

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:23 PM

Roger,

Are you changing the *Top* classes year to year? Are you accounting for people that sold their V15 to a Viper or jumped from a J/2x to a 105 or 109??
Is OD participation the same...just spread to more classes?


Vipers were
2010 - 20 boats - Florida - http://www.viper640....north-americans
2011 - 21 boats - Ontario - http://www.yachtscor...ive.cfm?eID=468
2012 - 44 boats - Massachusetts - http://www.yachtscor...ive.cfm?eID=640
3 year avg = 28.3

So not quite top 25 yet, but close and growing.

#34 Asymptote

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:30 PM

One thing on that survey seems odd. Texas sure seems to be an unattractive regatta site. For the four classes that held events in Texas, the turnout was the lowest the for all four classes over those three years.

A statistical anomaly? Or is something else going on?

#35 rgscpat

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:37 PM

Roger, would you know whether the raw data for Portsmouth might be available?

Especially for dinghies, but also for other smaller boats, the raw number of boats x races for each Portsmouth boat would be interesting to look at year-by-year. With something like a hundred reporting clubs and lots of races reported, that might provide some really interesting numbers.

#36 jewing

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:27 PM

One thing on that survey seems odd. Texas sure seems to be an unattractive regatta site. For the four classes that held events in Texas, the turnout was the lowest the for all four classes over those three years.

A statistical anomaly? Or is something else going on?


I noticed that as well.

I also participated in one of these events: the Lightning NAs in Houston. It was a great event, and the Houston YC did a truly fantastic job. It was more than worth our while to make the trip.

That said, it was a long way for many participants. With the primary concentrations of Lightnings on the Atlantic seaboard or the Great Lakes, it was a minimum 15hr drive for many participants (it was 22 for us from CT). A lot of people also thought it was going to be insanely hot and windless during the second week of August there. It was very hot, but we raced every day. Still, the perceptions couldn't be beat, and so a lot of potential participants stayed home - and I suspect many more would not have attended were it not the sole U.S. qualifier for next year's Worlds.

It will be interesting to see what the numbers are like this summer, when the NAs are at Cedar Pt in CT. Recent large class championships there have been close to recent highs in their respective classes: 83 Thistles in 2009 and 74 Flying Scots in 2011. My guess is the Texas factor will seem even more an anomaly then.

#37 7.9 sailor

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:14 PM

what does it take to make the list? S2 7.9's is a strong Class with a smaller number of boats.

#38 Mambo Kings

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:29 AM


Roger,

Are you changing the *Top* classes year to year? Are you accounting for people that sold their V15 to a Viper or jumped from a J/2x to a 105 or 109??
Is OD participation the same...just spread to more classes?


Vipers were
2010 - 20 boats - Florida - http://www.viper640....north-americans
2011 - 21 boats - Ontario - http://www.yachtscor...ive.cfm?eID=468
2012 - 44 boats - Massachusetts - http://www.yachtscor...ive.cfm?eID=640
3 year avg = 28.3

So not quite top 25 yet, but close and growing.


Viper is one of those classes which has a 3 year cycle with 1 year in the center of the Viper population zone and then 2 years elsewhere in the country so that two every three years it is close to new fleets. In 2009 I believe I recollect was 37 boats so 4 year average was 30.5, with each year that a region hosts the NAs being larger than the previous time the same region hosted the NAs.

#39 RogerJolly

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:41 PM

The Viper class has been doing good work. What is the secret to their success?

#40 Boudreaux

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 03:08 PM

Wow, look at where the Flying Scot is on that list.

They would very likely be the top boat on the list if they would be a little accommodating of people with day jobs. Their class always seems to schedule Nationals Tuesday through Friday, so any non-retiree or professional will have to take a week off of work.

I know that "50" in 2010 would have included another 20 or more if it had been a Fri-Sat-Sun event.

#41 PeterHuston

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 03:26 PM

Wow, look at where the Flying Scot is on that list.

They would very likely be the top boat on the list if they would be a little accommodating of people with day jobs. Their class always seems to schedule Nationals Tuesday through Friday, so any non-retiree or professional will have to take a week off of work.

I know that "50" in 2010 would have included another 20 or more if it had been a Fri-Sat-Sun event.


And there I think you have hit the nail on the head.

Many people think it is money - cash - that is the problem in declining participation. To some degree that is of course true, but to a larger extent it is time.

The concession of which you speak where the racing is all mid-week is likely to appease the host club who gets pressure from their members to keep "those sailors" away from the club on the weekend. I see this in many clubs. People, especially new members, fail to remember the only reason the club at which they enjoy their private waterfront dining experience is there only because long ago some people who raced sailboats got together and acquired some land on which to keep their boats as a waterfront econimic co-op for boat storage and waterfront access. To ignore that heritage is to doom the facility to eventually become condo's.

I probably have more flexibility than most with my schedule, but I am simply done going to a week long regatta and doing exactly the same thing, meaning W/L races, where the ENTIRE day is sucked up sitting in a boat, and most of the time is wasted waiting for "perfect" conditions.

Why on earth can't a championship regatta have a wide variety of courses? How about some downwind starts, some triangle courses, some distance races around government marks. And for boats that like to plane on a reach, why not some power reaches on occassion?

While interesting, I think this poll shows only the trends in people willing to travel to a championship regatta. It is one measure of a class, but all calsses are not created equal - some are travelling only classes, some have wide and active fleet distribution while also a big travelling component. Classes that want to up their numbers need to look at many factors, time being the biggest, both in terms of gross time to be involved in the regatta, and then how time is spent at the regatta. They need to ask members what they want; just hard core W/L racing as we have come to know it, or, will another format help to attract more people to the regatta?

It is evident that we are racing to attrition. Is the goal to be the last guy to win the class championship trophy because no one else wanted to come play any more?

#42 billy backstay

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 03:39 PM

55 Etchells registered for Jag Cup starting tomorrow! Good luck to my mates on 1341 and 1063. Not all of us are young and spry enough for a planing sportboat! LOL! :lol:

#43 Christian

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 03:57 PM

55 Etchells registered for Jag Cup starting tomorrow! Good luck to my mates on 1341 and 1063. Not all of us are young and spry enough for a planing sportboat! LOL! :lol:


Billy - what you will find is that a boat like the Viper 640 is no more atletic than an Etchells - just a little more comfortable and off course faster in most conditions

#44 fastyacht

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:06 PM


Wow, look at where the Flying Scot is on that list.

They would very likely be the top boat on the list if they would be a little accommodating of people with day jobs. Their class always seems to schedule Nationals Tuesday through Friday, so any non-retiree or professional will have to take a week off of work.

I know that "50" in 2010 would have included another 20 or more if it had been a Fri-Sat-Sun event.


And there I think you have hit the nail on the head.

Many people think it is money - cash - that is the problem in declining participation. To some degree that is of course true, but to a larger extent it is time.

The concession of which you speak where the racing is all mid-week is likely to appease the host club who gets pressure from their members to keep "those sailors" away from the club on the weekend. I see this in many clubs. People, especially new members, fail to remember the only reason the club at which they enjoy their private waterfront dining experience is there only because long ago some people who raced sailboats got together and acquired some land on which to keep their boats as a waterfront econimic co-op for boat storage and waterfront access. To ignore that heritage is to doom the facility to eventually become condo's.

I probably have more flexibility than most with my schedule, but I am simply done going to a week long regatta and doing exactly the same thing, meaning W/L races, where the ENTIRE day is sucked up sitting in a boat, and most of the time is wasted waiting for "perfect" conditions.

Why on earth can't a championship regatta have a wide variety of courses? How about some downwind starts, some triangle courses, some distance races around government marks. And for boats that like to plane on a reach, why not some power reaches on occassion?

While interesting, I think this poll shows only the trends in people willing to travel to a championship regatta. It is one measure of a class, but all calsses are not created equal - some are travelling only classes, some have wide and active fleet distribution while also a big travelling component. Classes that want to up their numbers need to look at many factors, time being the biggest, both in terms of gross time to be involved in the regatta, and then how time is spent at the regatta. They need to ask members what they want; just hard core W/L racing as we have come to know it, or, will another format help to attract more people to the regatta?

It is evident that we are racing to attrition. Is the goal to be the last guy to win the class championship trophy because no one else wanted to come play any more?


Well said. The W/L thing drives me completely nuts.

#45 billy backstay

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:26 PM


55 Etchells registered for Jag Cup starting tomorrow! Good luck to my mates on 1341 and 1063. Not all of us are young and spry enough for a planing sportboat! LOL! :lol:


Billy - what you will find is that a boat like the Viper 640 is no more atletic than an Etchells - just a little more comfortable and off course faster in most conditions


Smaller sportboat would be fine, if I am the guy holding the wood, driving. But, I really prefer doing sail trim, tactics, etc. I did a few races on a Melges 24, and unless I was going to be driving, it was not my cuppa; way too athletic....

OTOH, main trim on the Melges 32 is just fine, but there is only one such boat in our area, and it hasn't worked out for my available time....

So, now been doing main trim and tactical input on a Schock 35, and middle on the Etchells....

#46 RogerJolly

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 12:54 AM

2012 Top 40

1 Laser Radial--112.67
2 Sunfish--85.67
3 Thistle--70.33
4 MC scow--70.00
5 E scow--65.67
6 Laser--61.67
6 Flying Scot--61.67
8 Lightning--61.00
9 C scow--55.33
10 Albacore--51.00
11 Snipe--48.00
12 Formula 18--46.67
13 29er--46.00
14 Hobie Cat 16--44.00
15 A-Class Catamaran--41.67
16 Ensign--40.33
17 J/22--39.67
17 Vanguard 15--39.67
19 Etchells--39.00
20 Butterfly--38.00
21 Shark--37.67
22 J/24--36.67
23 Cal 20--35.33
24 Star--34.33
25 Interlake--34.00

26 Lido 14--33.00
26 J/80--33.00
28 Atlantic--32.67
29 Y flyer--31.67
30 Rhodes 19--31.00
31 Bucaneer 18--29.67
32 Catalina 22--29.33
33 Harbor 20--29.33
34 J/105--29.00
35 Ideal 18--28.67
36 Inter Club--28.33
37 Viper 640--28.00
38 Tartan Ten--27.33
39 505--27.00
39 Hobie Wave--27.00

#47 RogerJolly

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 02:47 AM

By the way:
A few people have asked me for permission to publish this list and what I have written in their class newsletter and/or website, please feel free to do so.
RJ

#48 Port Tack Start

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 02:56 AM

Why on earth can't a championship regatta have a wide variety of courses? How about some downwind starts, some triangle courses, some distance races around government marks. And for boats that like to plane on a reach, why not some power reaches on occassion?


I'm by no means a fan of WL, but doesn't it (along with Leeward-Windard) provide the most tactically interesting racing format (especially with a leeward gate thrown in)? For a triangle course (or really any leg where you can easily point a mark) I always see that as turning into a 'follow the leader' where your only hope to gain places is to hope the other guy broaches or messes up a mark rounding. WL provides more of an opportunity to use the race course and beat boats with tactics rather than pure boat handling.

In long distance racing, you obviously get some latitude on the reaching legs to drive to the pressure...but even on those you shouldn't generally stray too far from the rhumb line it seems (iirc, the top boats in the 2006 Newport-Bermuda generally stayed close to it, rather than going for that colossal warm eddy to the east).

So I'd like to see some other short-course formats, but would the justification of those for non-WL legs generally be to test handling skills vice course tactics (not saying that there would be no tactics involved, especially on light or shifty days, but the tactical component is much reduced since you can point the mark with speed)?

#49 PeterHuston

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 04:23 AM


Why on earth can't a championship regatta have a wide variety of courses? How about some downwind starts, some triangle courses, some distance races around government marks. And for boats that like to plane on a reach, why not some power reaches on occassion?


I'm by no means a fan of WL, but doesn't it (along with Leeward-Windard) provide the most tactically interesting racing format (especially with a leeward gate thrown in)? For a triangle course (or really any leg where you can easily point a mark) I always see that as turning into a 'follow the leader' where your only hope to gain places is to hope the other guy broaches or messes up a mark rounding. WL provides more of an opportunity to use the race course and beat boats with tactics rather than pure boat handling.

In long distance racing, you obviously get some latitude on the reaching legs to drive to the pressure...but even on those you shouldn't generally stray too far from the rhumb line it seems (iirc, the top boats in the 2006 Newport-Bermuda generally stayed close to it, rather than going for that colossal warm eddy to the east).

So I'd like to see some other short-course formats, but would the justification of those for non-WL legs generally be to test handling skills vice course tactics (not saying that there would be no tactics involved, especially on light or shifty days, but the tactical component is much reduced since you can point the mark with speed)?


I agree with what you say, but it's like anything else in life, if you just have one thing all the time, it gets boring too. Nothing wrong with a little follow the leader and randomness thrown in. That gives mere mortals a chance at glory once in a while, and won't likely upset the rotation of the earth all that much.

#50 fastyacht

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 04:37 AM



Why on earth can't a championship regatta have a wide variety of courses? How about some downwind starts, some triangle courses, some distance races around government marks. And for boats that like to plane on a reach, why not some power reaches on occassion?


I'm by no means a fan of WL, but doesn't it (along with Leeward-Windard) provide the most tactically interesting racing format (especially with a leeward gate thrown in)? For a triangle course (or really any leg where you can easily point a mark) I always see that as turning into a 'follow the leader' where your only hope to gain places is to hope the other guy broaches or messes up a mark rounding. WL provides more of an opportunity to use the race course and beat boats with tactics rather than pure boat handling.

In long distance racing, you obviously get some latitude on the reaching legs to drive to the pressure...but even on those you shouldn't generally stray too far from the rhumb line it seems (iirc, the top boats in the 2006 Newport-Bermuda generally stayed close to it, rather than going for that colossal warm eddy to the east).

So I'd like to see some other short-course formats, but would the justification of those for non-WL legs generally be to test handling skills vice course tactics (not saying that there would be no tactics involved, especially on light or shifty days, but the tactical component is much reduced since you can point the mark with speed)?


I agree with what you say, but it's like anything else in life, if you just have one thing all the time, it gets boring too. Nothing wrong with a little follow the leader and randomness thrown in. That gives mere mortals a chance at glory once in a while, and won't likely upset the rotation of the earth all that much.


And it is class-specific. Trapezed dinghies 505 FD etc are not "follow the leader" on the reaches. And boathandling is a big part of the fun in those classes. 505 redesigned the spinnaker so that the W/L wouldn't kill every bit of the fun. But this also means we can pretty much say goodye to the classic 60 degree gybe mark of the old days, with windshifts making the ability to carry the chute a matter of skill and good choices.

Unfortunately there is a "plain vanilla" aspect that develops after a time. To some extent this is driven by the "elite" racing because anything that isn't in keeping with the format at Worlds is a "waste of time" to the championship contender...

#51 PeterHuston

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 04:49 AM

And it is class-specific. Trapezed dinghies 505 FD etc are not "follow the leader" on the reaches. And boathandling is a big part of the fun in those classes. 505 redesigned the spinnaker so that the W/L wouldn't kill every bit of the fun. But this also means we can pretty much say goodye to the classic 60 degree gybe mark of the old days, with windshifts making the ability to carry the chute a matter of skill and good choices.

Unfortunately there is a "plain vanilla" aspect that develops after a time. To some extent this is driven by the "elite" racing because anything that isn't in keeping with the format at Worlds is a "waste of time" to the championship contender...


Yes it is class specific, and all of these things should be widely discussed within each class. If the majority want it one way, then great, at least everyone has had a chance to lobby for what they like and/or think is best for the long term health of the class. My point is that the classes should at least discuss this.

As for the reach to reach tight jibe, especially with a shift, that is a critical thing in many boats. i recently sailed in a boat that planes easily, hadn't really done a serious regatta in one in a very long time. In the past, we enjoyed really tight reaches, boats would fly, and there would be a considerable about of passing or at least gains/losses. Now, W/L....not all that much fun, or challenging. Sort of point the boat at the mark and dig deep, maybe a jibe or two on each leg, but rarely any big moves, and if you do make a big gain, it's usually not because of any brilliance, it's just that you brought breeze up from behind. In that instance, rather be lucky than good I guess.

#52 Lake Shark

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 05:07 AM

I hope the windward gate that they are using in this America's cup and some of the Volvo races start to show up in dinghy racing. I think it adds a whole new dimension to the upwind portion of the race while creating more choices for how to sail the downwind leg. While reaching legs may even out phrf or development classes they do not lead to situations for lead changes in one designs. Maybe if the reaching legs were four times or so the distance of the upwind leg. But that would seriously limit the number of venues that could hold events

#53 sunseeker

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 05:15 AM

I hope the windward gate that they are using in this America's cup and some of the Volvo races start to show up in dinghy racing. I think it adds a whole new dimension to the upwind portion of the race while creating more choices for how to sail the downwind leg. While reaching legs may even out phrf or development classes they do not lead to situations for lead changes in one designs. Maybe if the reaching legs were four times or so the distance of the upwind leg. But that would seriously limit the number of venues that could hold events


Depends on the class for reaches, but windward gate should be used. I've seen it used in some places with success. I think some places even use offset marks, so that means four marks in a row up top. Lots of work for mark set, but if the class wants that and can pay for it why not. Haven't etchells done this in jaguar cup?

#54 Hobie Dog

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:22 PM

I probably have more flexibility than most with my schedule, but I am simply done going to a week long regatta and doing exactly the same thing, meaning W/L races, where the ENTIRE day is sucked up sitting in a boat, and most of the time is wasted waiting for "perfect" conditions.

Why on earth can't a championship regatta have a wide variety of courses? How about some downwind starts, some triangle courses, some distance races around government marks. And for boats that like to plane on a reach, why not some power reaches on occassion?

While interesting, I think this poll shows only the trends in people willing to travel to a championship regatta. It is one measure of a class, but all calsses are not created equal - some are travelling only classes, some have wide and active fleet distribution while also a big travelling component. Classes that want to up their numbers need to look at many factors, time being the biggest, both in terms of gross time to be involved in the regatta, and then how time is spent at the regatta. They need to ask members what they want; just hard core W/L racing as we have come to know it, or, will another format help to attract more people to the regatta?


You sir are making way too much sense! Totally agree!

How about a triangle race for every W/L and then throw in a distance race around government marks that counts twice as it is a longer race. We are talking OD racing here so the better sailor should be better on all points of sail not just upwind and down.

#55 evenflow

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:46 AM

Interesting most of these boats (dinghies) can be towed by your "run of the mill" SUV (except the J/105 and Tartan Ten) and have a crew of 4 or less. Sounds like the future or racing is going to be dominated by smaller boats, and a local or regional class.

#56 S291sailor

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:21 AM

2012 Top 40

1 Laser Radial--112.67
2 Sunfish--85.67
3 Thistle--70.33
4 MC scow--70.00
5 E scow--65.67
6 Laser--61.67
6 Flying Scot--61.67
8 Lightning--61.00
9 C scow--55.33
10 Albacore--51.00
11 Snipe--48.00
12 Formula 18--46.67
13 29er--46.00
14 Hobie Cat 16--44.00
15 A-Class Catamaran--41.67
16 Ensign--40.33
17 J/22--39.67
17 Vanguard 15--39.67
19 Etchells--39.00
20 Butterfly--38.00
21 Shark--37.67
22 J/24--36.67
23 Cal 20--35.33
24 Star--34.33
25 Interlake--34.00

26 Lido 14--33.00
26 J/80--33.00
28 Atlantic--32.67
29 Y flyer--31.67
30 Rhodes 19--31.00
31 Bucaneer 18--29.67
32 Catalina 22--29.33
33 Harbor 20--29.33
34 J/105--29.00
35 Ideal 18--28.67
36 Inter Club--28.33
37 Viper 640--28.00
38 Tartan Ten--27.33
39 505--27.00
39 Hobie Wave--27.00

I was one of the PRO's for the MC nationals in 2012 and there were 95 boats on the line. Is this list a 3 year average?

#57 RogerJolly

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:50 PM


2012 Top 40

1 Laser Radial--112.67
2 Sunfish--85.67
3 Thistle--70.33
4 MC scow--70.00
5 E scow--65.67
6 Laser--61.67
6 Flying Scot--61.67
8 Lightning--61.00
9 C scow--55.33
10 Albacore--51.00
11 Snipe--48.00
12 Formula 18--46.67
13 29er--46.00
14 Hobie Cat 16--44.00
15 A-Class Catamaran--41.67
16 Ensign--40.33
17 J/22--39.67
17 Vanguard 15--39.67
19 Etchells--39.00
20 Butterfly--38.00
21 Shark--37.67
22 J/24--36.67
23 Cal 20--35.33
24 Star--34.33
25 Interlake--34.00

26 Lido 14--33.00
26 J/80--33.00
28 Atlantic--32.67
29 Y flyer--31.67
30 Rhodes 19--31.00
31 Bucaneer 18--29.67
32 Catalina 22--29.33
33 Harbor 20--29.33
34 J/105--29.00
35 Ideal 18--28.67
36 Inter Club--28.33
37 Viper 640--28.00
38 Tartan Ten--27.33
39 505--27.00
39 Hobie Wave--27.00

I was one of the PRO's for the MC nationals in 2012 and there were 95 boats on the line. Is this list a 3 year average?


Yes 3 year averages

#58 Mr. Swordfish

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:05 PM

These are all dead links, barely a month later. As is the link to the pdf of the 2012 results. What gives?





I've been tracking attendance at class championships in North America for a few years now. The early lists had a lot of omissions but I think the most recent ones present a good measure of what people are racing in North America.

Survey Links

2002
http://www.sailingan...3/od_survey.htm

2003
http://www.sailingan...sign survey.htm

2004
http://www.sailingan...4_od_survey.htm

2005
http://www.sailingan...gndurvey_06.htm

2006
http://www.sailingan...06_odsurvey.php

2007
http://www.sailingan...cle.php?get=802

2008
http://www.sailingan...le.php?get=2788

2009
http://forums.sailin...howtopic=101294

2010
http://www.sailingan...le.php?get=6344

2011
http://www.sailingan...le.php?get=8409



#59 dreaded

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:53 PM

Interesting most of these boats (dinghies) can be towed by your "run of the mill" SUV (except the J/105 and Tartan Ten) and have a crew of 4 or less. Sounds like the future or racing is going to be dominated by smaller boats, and a local or regional class.


of course, the cheaper something is, the more people will buy it... how many people can afford a $250,000 race boat and keep the program sustained over a number of years..


I can store a dinghy in my backyard on a trailer , work on it in my garage, and take it anywhere I want... for the cost of what some people will buy a set of winches for..

#60 Gray Ghost

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 02:44 PM


Wow, look at where the Flying Scot is on that list.

They would very likely be the top boat on the list if they would be a little accommodating of people with day jobs. Their class always seems to schedule Nationals Tuesday through Friday, so any non-retiree or professional will have to take a week off of work.

I know that "50" in 2010 would have included another 20 or more if it had been a Fri-Sat-Sun event.


And there I think you have hit the nail on the head.

Many people think it is money - cash - that is the problem in declining participation. To some degree that is of course true, but to a larger extent it is time.

The concession of which you speak where the racing is all mid-week is likely to appease the host club who gets pressure from their members to keep "those sailors" away from the club on the weekend. I see this in many clubs. People, especially new members, fail to remember the only reason the club at which they enjoy their private waterfront dining experience is there only because long ago some people who raced sailboats got together and acquired some land on which to keep their boats as a waterfront econimic co-op for boat storage and waterfront access. To ignore that heritage is to doom the facility to eventually become condo's.

I probably have more flexibility than most with my schedule, but I am simply done going to a week long regatta and doing exactly the same thing, meaning W/L races, where the ENTIRE day is sucked up sitting in a boat, and most of the time is wasted waiting for "perfect" conditions.

Why on earth can't a championship regatta have a wide variety of courses? How about some downwind starts, some triangle courses, some distance races around government marks. And for boats that like to plane on a reach, why not some power reaches on occassion?

While interesting, I think this poll shows only the trends in people willing to travel to a championship regatta. It is one measure of a class, but all calsses are not created equal - some are travelling only classes, some have wide and active fleet distribution while also a big travelling component. Classes that want to up their numbers need to look at many factors, time being the biggest, both in terms of gross time to be involved in the regatta, and then how time is spent at the regatta. They need to ask members what they want; just hard core W/L racing as we have come to know it, or, will another format help to attract more people to the regatta?

It is evident that we are racing to attrition. Is the goal to be the last guy to win the class championship trophy because no one else wanted to come play any more?


I agree that for the smaller dinghy classes, the time drain is a significant deterrent to attendance at national events. I race in the Flying Scot class, at the local, regional (midwest) and sometimes at the North American Championships. I pick and choose which NACs and Midwinters I attend by weighing the time sucked vs the likely quality of the regatta. I'm willing to drive a day or three to get to a place which I know will probably be windy, well-attended and not boiling hot. Thus Dallas (2 days drive) in summer = no but Sarasota (3 days drive) in winter = yes.

For many national classes, scheduling the regatta on a Saturday-Sunday only would not necessarily result in better attendance. That's because there's significant driving time involved to get to the event. In Scots, for many sailors a national event is a full day or two full days drive. So, if you limit the racing to a Saturday and Sunday, and you still have to get there by Friday noonish in order to measure in and set up your boat, many attendees still have to miss 3, 4 or 5 weekdays at work because of travel time. And, all that driving seems hardly worth it if the event is only 2 days long, especially if some of those two days are lost to bad weather.

At least for classes who drive their own boats to regattas like Scots, it makes sense to schedule a 4 1/2 day event during the week for the big regattas like the NACs and Midwinters, because then competitors get 9 days off in a row by taking only 5 weekdays off work. That allows for travel time on each end and the length of the event makes it a satisfactory one, worth the drive.

For classes with more than 2 or 3 crew, where one or two people drive the boat to the event and the rest fly in the Friday evening before Saturday's race start, a weekend event can make sense. For a couples-heavy class like Scots, the weekday format can be the best compromise.

#61 White Trash 216

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:23 PM

You are talking about championship events, two days barely get you through qualifiers... What a class can do, as I think Snipes do, is have the B-Fleet not require participation in the qualifiers. You run into event mgt issues with measurement, etc

Frankly if you are looking for competitive weekend events, that is what OD Classes have their regional championships and District championships for.

Nationals and/or NAs are the culmination of a year of sailboat racing. They also represent a week of vacation time with your friends from across the country, people you only see a couple times each year.





Wow, look at where the Flying Scot is on that list.

They would very likely be the top boat on the list if they would be a little accommodating of people with day jobs. Their class always seems to schedule Nationals Tuesday through Friday, so any non-retiree or professional will have to take a week off of work.

I know that "50" in 2010 would have included another 20 or more if it had been a Fri-Sat-Sun event.


And there I think you have hit the nail on the head.

Many people think it is money - cash - that is the problem in declining participation. To some degree that is of course true, but to a larger extent it is time.

The concession of which you speak where the racing is all mid-week is likely to appease the host club who gets pressure from their members to keep "those sailors" away from the club on the weekend. I see this in many clubs. People, especially new members, fail to remember the only reason the club at which they enjoy their private waterfront dining experience is there only because long ago some people who raced sailboats got together and acquired some land on which to keep their boats as a waterfront econimic co-op for boat storage and waterfront access. To ignore that heritage is to doom the facility to eventually become condo's.

I probably have more flexibility than most with my schedule, but I am simply done going to a week long regatta and doing exactly the same thing, meaning W/L races, where the ENTIRE day is sucked up sitting in a boat, and most of the time is wasted waiting for "perfect" conditions.

Why on earth can't a championship regatta have a wide variety of courses? How about some downwind starts, some triangle courses, some distance races around government marks. And for boats that like to plane on a reach, why not some power reaches on occassion?

While interesting, I think this poll shows only the trends in people willing to travel to a championship regatta. It is one measure of a class, but all calsses are not created equal - some are travelling only classes, some have wide and active fleet distribution while also a big travelling component. Classes that want to up their numbers need to look at many factors, time being the biggest, both in terms of gross time to be involved in the regatta, and then how time is spent at the regatta. They need to ask members what they want; just hard core W/L racing as we have come to know it, or, will another format help to attract more people to the regatta?

It is evident that we are racing to attrition. Is the goal to be the last guy to win the class championship trophy because no one else wanted to come play any more?


I agree that for the smaller dinghy classes, the time drain is a significant deterrent to attendance at national events. I race in the Flying Scot class, at the local, regional (midwest) and sometimes at the North American Championships. I pick and choose which NACs and Midwinters I attend by weighing the time sucked vs the likely quality of the regatta. I'm willing to drive a day or three to get to a place which I know will probably be windy, well-attended and not boiling hot. Thus Dallas (2 days drive) in summer = no but Sarasota (3 days drive) in winter = yes.

For many national classes, scheduling the regatta on a Saturday-Sunday only would not necessarily result in better attendance. That's because there's significant driving time involved to get to the event. In Scots, for many sailors a national event is a full day or two full days drive. So, if you limit the racing to a Saturday and Sunday, and you still have to get there by Friday noonish in order to measure in and set up your boat, many attendees still have to miss 3, 4 or 5 weekdays at work because of travel time. And, all that driving seems hardly worth it if the event is only 2 days long, especially if some of those two days are lost to bad weather.

At least for classes who drive their own boats to regattas like Scots, it makes sense to schedule a 4 1/2 day event during the week for the big regattas like the NACs and Midwinters, because then competitors get 9 days off in a row by taking only 5 weekdays off work. That allows for travel time on each end and the length of the event makes it a satisfactory one, worth the drive.

For classes with more than 2 or 3 crew, where one or two people drive the boat to the event and the rest fly in the Friday evening before Saturday's race start, a weekend event can make sense. For a couples-heavy class like Scots, the weekday format can be the best compromise.



#62 White Trash 216

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:37 PM

I think the keys to the more successful one design classes include:

Strong and motivated volunteer class leaders

Boats and rigs with long competitive lifespans (my Thistle was built in the '50s and if I take care of it, she is barely middle aged)

Affordable and readily available competitive used boats

Affordable sails with acquisition rules

Community and Culture

Events with a fun social aspect after racing... There is nothing more fun than racing hard against friends, but in order to do so you need to have fun socials.

#63 elby

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 02:33 PM

Dragons typically have 100+ boats for their major races. For the 75th anniversary regatta in St. Tropez there were 260 boats - not many classes can top that

absolutely right! but... not very much alive in the USA...
(in the Netherlands: small dragon events about 15 - 25 boats/ nationals 25 - 35 boats)

#64 fastyacht

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 02:35 PM

Dragon in Europe, Thistle in the U.S. Many great classes are regional or even local.

#65 6924

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:02 PM

It is very regional in the US - many large fleets with active participation go un-noticed among all the hype of the NAs and FLA events. All sailing is ultimately local.

For example, the Schock Harbor 20s had 51 boats registered for the Newport Harbor Winter Series of 4 regattas.

Many other classes have similar quiet & unsung participation rates.

#66 RogerJolly

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 01:40 AM

Don't have time to do much more than post results this year.

Attached in the Index through 2013.See previous years posts for an explanation.

Attached Files



#67 RogerJolly

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 01:49 AM

1 Laser Radial - 135.67

2 Sunfish - 79.33

3 Thistle - 74.00

4 E Scow - 71.00

5 Flying Scot - 67.67

6 MC Scow - 67.33

7 Laser - 63.67

8 C Scow - 62.67

9 Lighting - 55.33

10 Formula 18 - 53.00

11 Albacore - 51.00

12 Snipe - 40.33

13 Hobie 16 - 42.33

14 29er - 41.67

15 J/22 - 39.67

16 Ensign - 37.33

17 Shark - 37.33

18 Etchells - 36.00

19 Atlantic - 35.67

20 Star - 34.33

21 A Class - 34.00

22 Cal 20 - 33.33

23 Y Flyer - 33.33

24 Interlake - 33.00

25 J/105 - 31.33

25 Viper 640 - 31.33

 

Big Footnote: J/70 class with an 89 boat North Americans in their first year



#68 coolerboy

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 02:25 AM

Agree with 6924. More regional. I live in SF so 95% sailing here. 5% Santa Cruz. That is just my choice. I have sailed Long Beach and the weather was awesome but no wind. No need to travel 8 hours for what I consider to be less fun. I have sailed on the east coast and think it is boring. I'm not motivated to travel because I love my home venue. With that said ....I will travel if I get a kick in the ass from the fleet. If you are sailing against your friends and cracking a few brews afterwards that is fun. You want to be a part of that. All about the fleet for big time OD IMHO.

#69 Wet Spreaders

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 05:00 PM

1 Laser Radial - 135.67

2 Sunfish - 79.33

3 Thistle - 74.00

4 E Scow - 71.00

5 Flying Scot - 67.67

6 MC Scow - 67.33

7 Laser - 63.67

8 C Scow - 62.67

9 Lighting - 55.33

10 Formula 18 - 53.00

11 Albacore - 51.00

12 Snipe - 40.33

13 Hobie 16 - 42.33

14 29er - 41.67

15 J/22 - 39.67

16 Ensign - 37.33

17 Shark - 37.33

18 Etchells - 36.00

19 Atlantic - 35.67

20 Star - 34.33

21 A Class - 34.00

22 Cal 20 - 33.33

23 Y Flyer - 33.33

24 Interlake - 33.00

25 J/105 - 31.33

25 Viper 640 - 31.33

 

Big Footnote: J/70 class with an 89 boat North Americans in their first year

 

Great list! What happens if you multiply by the number of crew per boat (Laser gets 1, Hobie 16 gets 2, for example) to see how many people are involved in each fleet?



#70 Hobie Dog

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 08:29 PM

Dude, Get out your Excel and give us the calculations you lazy ass! JK :lol:

 

Don't have time to run them all but but assuming the E Scow races 4 up then they win easy followed by the Flying Scot racing 3 up.



#71 Hobie Dog

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 08:31 PM

Thanks again RollyJolly for running the numbers! How far down do you carry these calculations before you stop and figure they are out of it?



#72 transom

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 09:00 PM

I just think what White Trash216 stated should be stated/noticed again: I think it is universally accepted that the Thistle Class knows how to keep the numbers. I will add: Girls, Wives, Daughters, Girlfriends to the list

I think the keys to the more successful one design classes include:

Strong and motivated volunteer class leaders

Boats and rigs with long competitive lifespans (my Thistle was built in the '50s and if I take care of it, she is barely middle aged)

Affordable and readily available competitive used boats

Affordable sails with acquisition rules

Community and Culture

Events with a fun social aspect after racing... There is nothing more fun than racing hard against friends, but in order to do so you need to have fun socials.



#73 RogerJolly

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 11:53 PM

Looks like I had some mistakes. Corrected below.

 

 

1 Laser Radial - 135.67

2 Sunfish - 79.33

3 Thistle - 74.00

4 E Scow - 71.00

5 Flying Scot - 67.67

6 MC Scow - 67.33

7 Laser - 63.67

8 C Scow - 62.67

9 Lighting - 55.33

10 Formula 18 - 53.00

11 Albacore - 51.00

12 Hobie 16 - 42.33

13 29er - 41.67

14 Snipe - 40.33

15 J/22 - 39.67

16 Ensign - 37.33

16 Shark - 37.33

18 Etchells - 36.00

19 Atlantic - 35.67

20 Star - 34.33

21 A Class - 34.00

22 Cal 20 - 33.33

22 Y Flyer - 33.33

24 Interlake - 33.00

25 J/105 - 31.33

25 Viper 640 - 31.33

 

Big Footnote: J/70 class with an 89 boat North Americans in their first year



#74 Savage 17

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 02:41 AM

Looks like I had some mistakes. Corrected below.
 
 
1 Laser Radial - 135.67
2 Sunfish - 79.33
3 Thistle - 74.00
4 E Scow - 71.00
5 Flying Scot - 67.67
6 MC Scow - 67.33
7 Laser - 63.67
8 C Scow - 62.67
9 Lighting - 55.33
10 Formula 18 - 53.00
11 Albacore - 51.00
12 Hobie 16 - 42.33
13 29er - 41.67
14 Snipe - 40.33
15 J/22 - 39.67
16 Ensign - 37.33
16 Shark - 37.33
18 Etchells - 36.00
19 Atlantic - 35.67
20 Star - 34.33
21 A Class - 34.00
22 Cal 20 - 33.33
22 Y Flyer - 33.33
24 Interlake - 33.00
25 J/105 - 31.33
25 Viper 640 - 31.33
 
Big Footnote: J/70 class with an 89 boat North Americans in their first year


And close to 70 registered for key west and charleston each

#75 RogerJolly

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:23 AM

So what do the Johnstone's know that everyone else does not? The J/70 phenomenon just blows me away. What's the formula?



#76 RogerJolly

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:11 PM

Thanks again RollyJolly for running the numbers! How far down do you carry these calculations before you stop and figure they are out of it?

 

I have 75 classes on my list and I'm reasonably confident I have the top 40 in order without omissions. 



#77 Tcatman

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 06:31 PM

I think the Johnstones understand the role crew play in turnout.  The Lightning class also has led your ranking in the past... (counting the total number of sailors on the water.... and at the party).  In any region... you have a finite number of crew and the owners have a finite amount of enenergy to keep filling the boat..  The people dynamics within a three or more boat team is very different then the two man classes and that is key to their popularity...The fact that you don't need a huge crew roster and the asym management is easier to staff makes the class a winner.



#78 Mr. Swordfish

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 04:12 PM

I have 75 classes on my list and I'm reasonably confident I have the top 40 in order without omissions. 

 

Thanks for doing this, I look forward to the results every year.  Please post the top 40 list when you get a chance.  Here's a diff from last year:

 

 

 

Who's new in the top 25 for 2013?

25 Viper 640 (37 last year)
24 J/105 (34 last year)
22 Y Flyer (29 last year)


who's out in 2013 (2012 ranking listed)?

22 J/24
20 Butterfly
17 Vanguard 15

 

I'm surprised about the V 15 dropping out of the rankings.  Anybody know what's going on?



#79 Hobie Dog

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 07:04 PM

I have 75 classes on my list and I'm reasonably confident I have the top 40 in order without omissions. 

 

Thanks for doing this, I look forward to the results every year.  Please post the top 40 list when you get a chance.  Here's a diff from last year:

 

 

 

Who's new in the top 25 for 2013?

25 Viper 640 (37 last year)
24 J/105 (34 last year)
22 Y Flyer (29 last year)


who's out in 2013 (2012 ranking listed)?

22 J/24
20 Butterfly
17 Vanguard 15

 

I'm surprised about the V 15 dropping out of the rankings.  Anybody know what's going on?

+1 on posting the top 40 please.



#80 RogerJolly

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 01:46 AM

1 Laser Radial - 135.67

2 Sunfish - 79.33

3 Thistle - 74.00

4 E Scow - 71.00

5 Flying Scot - 67.67

6 MC Scow - 67.33

7 Laser - 63.67

8 C Scow - 62.67

9 Lighting - 55.33

10 Formula 18 - 53.00

11 Albacore - 51.00

12 Hobie 16 - 42.33

13 29er - 41.67

14 Snipe - 40.33

15 J/22 - 39.67

16 Ensign - 37.33

16 Shark - 37.33

18 Etchells - 36.00

19 Atlantic - 35.67

20 Star - 34.33

21 A Class - 34.00

22 Cal 20 - 33.33

22 Y Flyer - 33.33

24 Interlake - 33.00

25 J/105 - 31.33

25 Viper 640 - 31.33

 

27 J/70 - 29.67*

27 Melges 17 - 29.67

29 Butterfly - 29.00

30 J/24 - 28.33

30 505 - 28.33

32  Inter Club - 28.00

33 Vanguard 15 - 27.33

34 Lido 14 - 27.00

35 Laser 4.7 - 26.33

36 Melges 20 - 26.00

37 Melges 24 - 25.67

38 Bucaneer 18 - 25.33

39 Highlander - 25.00

39 Tartan Ten - 25.00

 

* 3 year average 89/3 



#81 sunseeker

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 02:46 AM

1 Laser Radial - 135.67

2 Sunfish - 79.33

3 Thistle - 74.00

4 E Scow - 71.00

5 Flying Scot - 67.67

6 MC Scow - 67.33

7 Laser - 63.67

8 C Scow - 62.67

9 Lighting - 55.33

10 Formula 18 - 53.00

11 Albacore - 51.00

12 Hobie 16 - 42.33

13 29er - 41.67

14 Snipe - 40.33

15 J/22 - 39.67

16 Ensign - 37.33

16 Shark - 37.33

18 Etchells - 36.00

19 Atlantic - 35.67

20 Star - 34.33

21 A Class - 34.00

22 Cal 20 - 33.33

22 Y Flyer - 33.33

24 Interlake - 33.00

25 J/105 - 31.33

25 Viper 640 - 31.33

 

27 J/70 - 29.67*

27 Melges 17 - 29.67

29 Butterfly - 29.00

30 J/24 - 28.33

30 505 - 28.33

32  Inter Club - 28.00

33 Vanguard 15 - 27.33

34 Lido 14 - 27.00

35 Laser 4.7 - 26.33

36 Melges 20 - 26.00

37 Melges 24 - 25.67

38 Bucaneer 18 - 25.33

39 Highlander - 25.00

39 Tartan Ten - 25.00

 

* 3 year average 89/3 

 

These numbers are basically meaningless.  They are a snapshot of one regatta for each class.  The real question is how many times do boats in each class cross a starting line in the US through the entire year.  How many truly active sailors in each class.  Include club and regional events.  Some of these classes are one trick traveling ponies with only a few hundred people sailing in the class but traveling everywhere.  Some classes have much deeper local and regional competition.



#82 Chris 249

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 03:19 AM

 

1 Laser Radial - 135.67

2 Sunfish - 79.33

3 Thistle - 74.00

4 E Scow - 71.00

5 Flying Scot - 67.67

6 MC Scow - 67.33

7 Laser - 63.67

8 C Scow - 62.67

9 Lighting - 55.33

10 Formula 18 - 53.00

11 Albacore - 51.00

12 Hobie 16 - 42.33

13 29er - 41.67

14 Snipe - 40.33

15 J/22 - 39.67

16 Ensign - 37.33

16 Shark - 37.33

18 Etchells - 36.00

19 Atlantic - 35.67

20 Star - 34.33

21 A Class - 34.00

22 Cal 20 - 33.33

22 Y Flyer - 33.33

24 Interlake - 33.00

25 J/105 - 31.33

25 Viper 640 - 31.33

 

27 J/70 - 29.67*

27 Melges 17 - 29.67

29 Butterfly - 29.00

30 J/24 - 28.33

30 505 - 28.33

32  Inter Club - 28.00

33 Vanguard 15 - 27.33

34 Lido 14 - 27.00

35 Laser 4.7 - 26.33

36 Melges 20 - 26.00

37 Melges 24 - 25.67

38 Bucaneer 18 - 25.33

39 Highlander - 25.00

39 Tartan Ten - 25.00

 

* 3 year average 89/3 

 

These numbers are basically meaningless.  They are a snapshot of one regatta for each class.  The real question is how many times do boats in each class cross a starting line in the US through the entire year.  How many truly active sailors in each class.  Include club and regional events.  Some of these classes are one trick traveling ponies with only a few hundred people sailing in the class but traveling everywhere.  Some classes have much deeper local and regional competition.

 

They are not meaningless. No one is saying that these figures tell you everything you need to know, or anything like that. They simply give us some valuable info that tracks some trends. That's better than relying on hype, gut feeling or wildly inaccurate info, which seem to be the only other suggestions that people make.

 

Yes, it would be great to track the number of boats that compete in any country. I would like to be involved in something international along such lines. It could be an interesting crowd-sourced international effort that could lead to some valuable insights. 

 

But to write off the numbers created by JR (and the UK ones created by Y&Y) as "meaningless" is way off track.



#83 6924

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 03:38 AM

The numbers are 'meaningless' comment is a bit misplaced, but we should all recognize the limitations of this ( very useful ) list.  

 

There certainly are a few classes which have very little sailing activity during the season, but dragoon a bunch to the intergalatics. 

 

On the other hand, a Class like the T-10 has lots and lots of boats being actively sailed 1, 2, and even 3 times a week during the season. 

 

BTW - where is the sportboat with cupholders

 

 

Intergalatics for last 3 years 

37, 34, 29 = 33.33 average 



#84 Hobie Dog

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 08:32 PM

 

1 Laser Radial - 135.67

2 Sunfish - 79.33

3 Thistle - 74.00

4 E Scow - 71.00

5 Flying Scot - 67.67

6 MC Scow - 67.33

7 Laser - 63.67

8 C Scow - 62.67

9 Lighting - 55.33

10 Formula 18 - 53.00

11 Albacore - 51.00

12 Hobie 16 - 42.33

13 29er - 41.67

14 Snipe - 40.33

15 J/22 - 39.67

16 Ensign - 37.33

16 Shark - 37.33

18 Etchells - 36.00

19 Atlantic - 35.67

20 Star - 34.33

21 A Class - 34.00

22 Cal 20 - 33.33

22 Y Flyer - 33.33

24 Interlake - 33.00

25 J/105 - 31.33

25 Viper 640 - 31.33

 

27 J/70 - 29.67*

27 Melges 17 - 29.67

29 Butterfly - 29.00

30 J/24 - 28.33

30 505 - 28.33

32  Inter Club - 28.00

33 Vanguard 15 - 27.33

34 Lido 14 - 27.00

35 Laser 4.7 - 26.33

36 Melges 20 - 26.00

37 Melges 24 - 25.67

38 Bucaneer 18 - 25.33

39 Highlander - 25.00

39 Tartan Ten - 25.00

 

* 3 year average 89/3 

 

These numbers are basically meaningless.  They are a snapshot of one regatta for each class.  The real question is how many times do boats in each class cross a starting line in the US through the entire year.  How many truly active sailors in each class.  Include club and regional events.  Some of these classes are one trick traveling ponies with only a few hundred people sailing in the class but traveling everywhere.  Some classes have much deeper local and regional competition.

As has been said the numbers are NOT meaningless. They show fleet numbers at Nationals for the top fleets.

 

Agree that having the total number boats racing in all regattas would be a great data point to have as well but good luck compiling all that data! It would be a challenge for most classes and almost impossible for something like the Laser class to capture all the regattas.

 

And thanks again RogerJolly!



#85 RogerJolly

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 12:43 AM

The numbers are 'meaningless' comment is a bit misplaced, but we should all recognize the limitations of this ( very useful ) list.  

 

There certainly are a few classes which have very little sailing activity during the season, but dragoon a bunch to the intergalatics. 

 

On the other hand, a Class like the T-10 has lots and lots of boats being actively sailed 1, 2, and even 3 times a week during the season. 

 

BTW - where is the sportboat with cupholders

 

 

Intergalatics for last 3 years 

37, 34, 29 = 33.33 average 

 

Can you send me a link to the Harbor 20 results you list above. I have been looking but haven't been able to find them.



#86 6924

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 03:56 PM

Jolly,

 

Those Harbor 20s, like to keep their secrets. 

 

Sportboat w/ Cupholders intergalatics listed as the 'Harbor 20 Fleet One champs' - 

 

http://www.nhyc.org/...id=209933&vnf=1

 

 

 

 






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