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I need some help with a sprit rig


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#1 Bob Perry

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:54 PM

I'm doing my Christmas cartoons now and the first one I am doing is for my sweet Ultra Violet. It will be her first of many.
I am drawing a small, sprit rigged doublel ended daysailer.
I have questions about rigging the sprit. I have never sailed one as I recall.

Is there a throat halyard on the sprit?
Is there a peak halyard on the sprit? I assume there has to be.
If the sprit just goes up with the main halyard is there a downhaul on it?

My Royce's doesn't show enough detail.
I need to get Boomer on this. Maube I'll look at some Opti's and see if I can answer my own questions.
Any help would be appreciated. I can't be shoving Violet of ina cartoon that doesn't work.

#2 Anomaly2

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:03 PM

I'm doing my Christmas cartoons now and the first one I am doing is for my sweet Ultra Violet. It will be her first of many.
I am drawing a small, sprit rigged doublel ended daysailer.
I have questions about rigging the sprit. I have never sailed one as I recall.

Is there a throat halyard on the sprit?
Is there a peak halyard on the sprit? I assume there has to be.
If the sprit just goes up with the main halyard is there a downhaul on it?

My Royce's doesn't show enough detail.
I need to get Boomer on this. Maube I'll look at some Opti's and see if I can answer my own questions.
Any help would be appreciated. I can't be shoving Violet of ina cartoon that doesn't work.


Do you have a copy of Bolger's "100 Small Boat Rigs"? I think all your questions would be answered there. And no, I don't have a copy (been meaning to rectify that personal shortcoming but public libraries have been filling in for me), otherwise I'd answer them..... Seriously though, its a great book. Short chapters that discuss alternative rigs and the various pros and cons of each and every rig reviewed.

#3 Bob Perry

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:05 PM

Anom:
No I don' have that book but I just went to an Opti site and I see what is going on.
Correct me if I am wrong but there is no peak halyard on the sprit but there is a snotter to prevent the sprit from riding up.

#4 Anomaly2

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:09 PM

Anom:
No I don' have that book but I just went to an Opti site and I see what is going on.
Correct me if I am wrong but there is no peak halyard on the sprit but there is a snotter to prevent the sprit from riding up.


Yes, that is the way I remember it (friend of mine built a "Weekend Skiff" which used a sprit rig and the old Bristol Bay double-ender sailboats were all sprit rigged, The sail itself serves as the "halyard" and the snotter provides adjustment on the bottom end. I think......

#5 SemiSalt

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:11 PM

I'm doing my Christmas cartoons now and the first one I am doing is for my sweet Ultra Violet. It will be her first of many.
I am drawing a small, sprit rigged doublel ended daysailer.
I have questions about rigging the sprit. I have never sailed one as I recall.

Is there a throat halyard on the sprit?
Is there a peak halyard on the sprit? I assume there has to be.
If the sprit just goes up with the main halyard is there a downhaul on it?

My Royce's doesn't show enough detail.
I need to get Boomer on this. Maube I'll look at some Opti's and see if I can answer my own questions.
Any help would be appreciated. I can't be shoving Violet of ina cartoon that doesn't work.


On a small boat, there is no halyard, but on a big boat, there might be.
Again, on a small boat, there is no peak halyard. The peak is held by tension in the head of the sail, similar to the way a wishbone boom is held by the foot. The hell of the sprit is held by the snotter. On big big boats (e.g. those 100 ft English barges) there are all sorts of extra lines, e.g. lifts on the middle of the sprit to keep it from sagging.

Gravity suffices to lower the sprit.

The picture shows a braille.

Posted Image

#6 Jose Carumba

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:12 PM

In my Overlook Illlustrated Dictionary of Nautical Terms there is a small illustration of a sprit rigged barge. It shows a nearly square sail with a peak halyard. The illustration is too small to pick out a snotter.

#7 Bob Perry

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:13 PM

But the snotter holds the sprit up not down right?

#8 oregonarchist

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    my kids.

Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:28 PM

Found this --

"A note on the snotter - This is a bit of lightweight line (rope) that is attached to the mast with a clove hitch or some knot that will grip the mast and not slip. The other end is attached to the lower end of the sprit to support it."
Attached File  sprit.jpg   14.92K   14 downloads

and this --

"The snotter can be a simple line attached to the end of the sprit and tied to the mast with a clove hitch. The proper location the mast must be found for a good sail shape: move it up and down until your sail looks right, with equal tension all over."
Attached File  snotter.gif   1.19K   11 downloads

More good sprit stuff at http://www.boatbuild...hp#.ULeo8GewVPQ showing methods for lacing the sail to the mast, info on halyard/ no halyard rigs, etc.
Attached File  D4sprit.gif   2.7K   1 downloads

#9 Anomaly2

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:29 PM

Bob,

I'm still looking for a good picture for you (my digital photo "library" is scattered in various places.... sigh). BUT, here is a delightful page from a book on display in the museum in Naknek, AK.... perhaps it will answer your question and if not, you'll at least learn the the ethnic differences when it comes to putting a stove in a 32' double-ender. My favorite photo of one of the double-enders being overpowered (and of how a sprit rig can be "scandalized") is thrown in free of charge..... (I'll try to find a photo that answers your question....)

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#10 Joli

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:50 PM

From the mouths of babes and sailing instructors. Good times, fond memories.





right

But the snotter holds the sprit up not down right?



#11 Anomaly2

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:56 PM

In my Overlook Illlustrated Dictionary of Nautical Terms there is a small illustration of a sprit rigged barge. It shows a nearly square sail with a peak halyard. The illustration is too small to pick out a snotter.


Well, yes. There are sprit sails WITH peak halyards.... and then there are those without.... I think for Bob's purposes, he could safely choose the without option. Or not. Will send a photo of the "with" option (as soon as I find it).

#12 Bob Perry

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:57 PM

Perfect you guys! Many thanks. I'll post a pic of Ultra Violet's dink when I get it done.

#13 Anomaly2

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:10 AM

Bob,

Sounds like you're off and running. Looking forward to it. So now that the important stuff is taken care of.... with regard to the option for using a peak halyard, here are some photos of a real boat/rig in a community museum in northern Denmark. You can see the peak halyard and the fall of the halyard down the sprit itself to a cleat (near where the snotter is rigged). Violet may deserve a topsail for when she grows up so a photo of how to pile on sail on a sprit rig is included (from a model in the same museum). I can't figure out how to post the pics in the order I would prefer so you can just sort them out....

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#14 Bob Perry

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:28 AM

Oh yeah, well now I am a world famous expert on the sprit rig.

Thank you very much for the help. The cartoon is coming long quite nicely.
This is an important cartoon for me. This will be Violet's first.
I am putting a lot oif love into it.

CA is also putting love into it.

How can you not?
This is Max. He's important to me. He is Violet's Dad.
Violet has a very good Dad. He's big, tough and strong. Kind of liberal but I hope that can change in time.
He loves his daughter.
I try to think that I had a part in that.

Hail Violet.

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#15 fastyacht

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:11 AM

I just like saying the word snotter in mixed company.

#16 Gatekeeper

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:38 AM

Snot? Violet?

In 30 years she is going to be pissed at you Bruce.

#17 stranded

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:29 AM

Happy Xmas, Bob, and wish you and yours the BEST New Year !!!


#18 rattus32

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:41 AM

I'm doing my Christmas cartoons now and the first one I am doing is for my sweet Ultra Violet. It will be her first of many.
I am drawing a small, sprit rigged doublel ended daysailer.
I have questions about rigging the sprit. I have never sailed one as I recall.

Is there a throat halyard on the sprit?
Is there a peak halyard on the sprit? I assume there has to be.
If the sprit just goes up with the main halyard is there a downhaul on it?

My Royce's doesn't show enough detail.
I need to get Boomer on this. Maube I'll look at some Opti's and see if I can answer my own questions.
Any help would be appreciated. I can't be shoving Violet of ina cartoon that doesn't work.


Bob, it's great you refer to Royce's like we mortals. Binding's destroyed, pages are missing, but it still answers a lot of the "WTF" questions regarding (now) non-conventional rigs, lights, knots, etc. Ours did guest bathroom duty for a long time at home and raised a lot of questions from future sail mates.

#19 Bob Perry

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:22 PM

I got my copy of Royce's from Mr. Royce. I would communicate wirth him from time to time when he had questions or needed some support material.

#20 Presuming Ed

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:45 PM

Sprit - now there's a proper rig. Prize from someone's desk for anybody who can name the lines that run down to the deck from the end of the sprit.
Traditional crew of a Thames barge was a man, a boy and a dog.



Posted ImagePosted Image

#21 Bob Perry

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:25 PM

"spritzenthingenwobblers"?

What do I win?

#22 Presuming Ed

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:59 PM

What'cha got on your desk?

Anyway, it's the vang. Pronounced wang. (Today's interesting fact) So if anybody was wondering where boom vangs got their name, there you go.
http://www.thamesbar...geglossary.html

Posted Image

#23 sailman

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 03:01 PM

Sprit - now there's a proper rig. Prize from someone's desk for anybody who can name the lines that run down to the deck from the end of the sprit.
Traditional crew of a Thames barge was a man, a boy and a dog.



Posted ImagePosted Image

A Bob Stay?

#24 Bob Perry

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 03:02 PM

"Vang" is a dutch word. I did some research on this a while back.

#25 Presuming Ed

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 03:13 PM

Interesting. Like jacht. What does it mean? As the Thames barges were developed with input from Dutch boats, it makes sense as an import.

There are times I want to subscribe to the full OED. The online one shows a first written usage in 1769, as fangs or vangs. 100 years after the Glorious Revolution and Charles II's yachting exploits, but then it's a working boat connection, not yachting.

#26 Bob Perry

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 03:27 PM

Not sure but perhaps the "v" is pronounced as an "f" in Dutch as it is in German.
I Googled it and it says "to catch".

#27 SemiSalt

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:20 PM

Tristan Jones wrote an interesting account of serving on a Thames Barge. I think it's in Heart of Oak, but I'm not sure.

The current view is that there is a fair amount of fiction in some of Jones' non-fiction, but that book seemed pretty realistic to me, at least the sea-going parts.

#28 rattus32

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:02 PM

"Vang" is a dutch word. I did some research on this a while back.


Yeah - "vang" in Dutch = "fang" in German = "catch" in English. Catches the end of the sprit.

My Dad grew up in way northern Germany, where the "in-town" dialect was Plattdüütsch, or Low/flat German. It's very close to Low (as in altitude, not attitude...) Saxon, and thus Old English. I was sometimes startled when he was speaking to his mother, and heard half English words + German + Dutch all mixed into the same sentence.

Also it was the language of the Hanseatic League, so spread quite a bit around the North and Baltic seas as the unofficial trading language of the North. As we know they mostly sailed double enders, so the circle with Bob is closed.

#29 Bob Perry

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:32 PM

Nice, "the circle with Bob is closed"

Do I have to get in the middle of the circle now and dance a hornpipe?

#30 Tucky

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:40 PM

I think something in wooden shoes would be more appropriate.



#31 Presuming Ed

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:16 PM

Given Bob's propensity to wear a Glengarry, something like this?



#32 Ishmael

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:25 PM

I like this circle dance better...



#33 Bob Perry

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:36 PM

I don't think the EPA will let me do that Dutch dance. I wear a size 15 shoe and I'd have to get special permits to cut down the tree to make my wooden shoes. And they look bloody uncomfortable. And they'd look reallty stupid that big.

I'm more the Scottish dance kind of guy. I like the whooping and hollering and I suspect there is a fair amount of scotch drinking required just to get limbered up.

As for the Burning Man thing. I don't care how good looking the gals are, Bob don't do hot and dusty. Bob prefers hot and moist.

#34 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:56 PM

I think that Hula-Cam is a great teaching tool for showing the difference between Ptolemaic and Copernican astronomical models. It all depends on your point of view - who's going around whom.

As to the letter "V" in Dutch, it's said just like a "V" in English, no "F" or "W" sound. For examples go HERE. As a Dutch guy who's last name starts with a V, I've had a little practice. If a Dutch person says "Happy Christmas" in Dutch they say: "Vrolijk Kerstfeest", so most Dutch folks know how to say the "Vr" together as in Roff Vrolijk's name - the yacht designer.

BV

#35 Presuming Ed

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:10 PM

Bob prefers hot and moist.


Not Scotland, then. Moist (*) yes. Hot..... no.

(* Dreich, mizzle, etc etc. More words about types of rain than the Inuit have about snow.)

#36 stranded

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:48 PM

so if the sprit was used for loading and unloading cargo,

is it correct to say the sprit was slewed by the vangs ?

#37 rattus32

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:50 PM

Nice, "the circle with Bob is closed"

Do I have to get in the middle of the circle now and dance a hornpipe?


As long as the bagpipes are kept out of it. As far away as possible.

#38 Presuming Ed

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:46 PM

Definition of a gentleman. Someone who knows how to play the bagpipes. But doesn't.

#39 fastyacht

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:17 PM

Does that mean Bon Scott wasn't a gentleman?



#40 Bob Perry

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:03 AM

That is one of the coolest things I have ever seen
I feel bad that Bon Scott drank himself to death. He must have had some ferocious demons.

I went to the very same school as Angus and Malcom in Ashfield.
Had I been ten years younger, maybe 15, maybe 20, I could have been in the band.

Shitski

#41 kdh

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:19 AM

Ish. Hula girls. Awe. Some.

That burning man desert scene makes me uncomfortable, even with all the pasties on tits. Give me the ocean.

BV. Amazes me how much time is wasted thinking about stuff that's eventually deemed useless (Ptolemaic and Copernican astronomical models. It all depends on your point of view - who's going around whom). I'm reading Kahneman's "Thinking, Fast and Slow." The psychologist's view on probability is enlightening and naive to me at the same time.

#42 Bob Perry

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:12 AM

Jeezus kdh will you speak English for fuck's sake?

#43 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:26 AM

kdh,

I've spent more time than I can remember at Burning Man, I suppose my occasional outbursts can be attributed to that. It is a wondrous (note: not always wonderful) event. So many things that people have felt are "impossible" to co-exist are actually happening over and over again during that crazy week. Everything from Sand-Sailors hitting 30 knots in zero visibility and laughing about it, to folks trying to hit a barrel part full of gasoline with a tracer as they ride by on a motorcycle, on to hundreds of naked women on the the Thursday Nude Ladies Bike Ride (with thousands of guys forming a "roadway" and applauding regardless of how the ladies look) and finally to the final night of burning/dancing/drinking/dancing etc..... The hula-hoop girls are some of the best - I suppose swaying their hips that much tones the muscles.

I can't confirm this, I just did a quick Google search, but I believe that the original Apollo Moon Mission actually used Ptolemaic astronomy models to navigate to the Moon. The story is that solving multiple circles on the stupid computers they had at that time was a lot easier than dealing with Kepler's ellipses. I love the idea of space flight using a math model that everyone knew was wrong (in a way) but quite useful.

BV

#44 Tom Ray

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:03 AM

What'cha got on your desk?

Anyway, it's the vang. Pronounced wang. (Today's interesting fact) So if anybody was wondering where boom vangs got their name, there you go.
http://www.thamesbar...geglossary.html

Posted Image


That mizzen looks too small to be useful for powering the boat and also too small to be useful for balance.

It looks like clutter to me, but on a work boat it would not be there if it did not make money. Small as it is, it certainly cost money.

So why is it there?

#45 SemiSalt

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:05 AM

I can't confirm this, I just did a quick Google search, but I believe that the original Apollo Moon Mission actually used Ptolemaic astronomy models to navigate to the Moon. The story is that solving multiple circles on the stupid computers they had at that time was a lot easier than dealing with Kepler's ellipses. I love the idea of space flight using a math model that everyone knew was wrong (in a way) but quite useful.


I have to say I doubt it. The subject came up when I was in college (circa 1967-68). One of my prof had worked on moon missions, though not on navigation. The obvious way to go was numerical integration, and the big problem was figuring out how to keep round-off error from building up to much though thousands of steps.

#46 blackjenner

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 07:50 AM

Does that mean Bon Scott wasn't a gentleman?



what a wonderful Instrument of War.

#47 Presuming Ed

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:05 AM

That mizzen looks too small to be useful for powering the boat and also too small to be useful for balance.

It looks like clutter to me, but on a work boat it would not be there if it did not make money. Small as it is, it certainly cost money.

So why is it there?


AIUI, its for steering. It's sheeted to the rudder.

Posted Image

#48 Bob Perry

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 05:26 PM

I guess that mizzen sheeting to the rudder would help if there were weather helm problems. That is an odd detail. I'd like to learn why it's done like that.
What a noble looking vessel.

#49 Jose Carumba

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 07:09 PM

Does that mean Bon Scott wasn't a gentleman?



Too cool!

#50 Bob Perry

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:07 PM

I'm sitting here watching Bon Scott vids on Youtube.

I have Gunod's FAUST opera on the office stereo and AC/DC vids on the computer.
I was just thinking what irony there is in that.

#51 Presuming Ed

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:13 PM

I guess that mizzen sheeting to the rudder would help if there were weather helm problems. That is an odd detail. I'd like to learn why it's done like that.
What a noble looking vessel.


AIUI, a lot about help while tacking. The main and jib are self tacking (on the boats without bowsprits) on travellers - called horses. That short crew thing. So you can't back the jib to help with tacking - which might well be needed to sail upriver (the boats were used to take goods from the counties East into London - and horse manure out).

#52 Bob Perry

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:24 PM

Ah, I see, the old horse manure ploy.

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#53 Tom Ray

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:42 PM

A sail pulling on the back end of a rudder is going to try to turn the boat away from the wind, right? I'm still wondering why that's good.

#54 Paps

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:51 PM


Does that mean Bon Scott wasn't a gentleman?



Too cool!


The funny thing is Bon got the Bagpipes idea when they were recording that song in London. He raced out of the studio and returned with a set of pipes. After spending some time trying unsuccessfully to play the dam things they recorded the song blowing into the individual pipes like flutes!

Great conversation here with their original bass guitarist.

http://www.abc.net.a...cle&date=(none)

#55 Tucky

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:59 PM

A sail pulling on the back end of a rudder is going to try to turn the boat away from the wind, right? I'm still wondering why that's good.


I'm guessing it it the other way around, when you throw the helm down to come about it hauls the mizzen to weather and that helps push the stern around?

I should book a room at a Holiday Inn, then I'd know.

#56 fastyacht

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:02 AM

The funny thing is Bon got the Bagpipes idea when they were recording that song in London. He raced out of the studio and returned with a set of pipes. After spending some time trying unsuccessfully to play the dam things they recorded the song blowing into the individual pipes like flutes!

Great conversation here with their original bass guitarist.

http://www.abc.net.a...cle&date=(none)


thanks!

#57 Bob Perry

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:07 AM

If the mizzen pulls the rudder down it would compensate for weather helm.

#58 floating dutchman

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:43 AM

If the mizzen pulls the rudder down it would compensate for weather helm.

Same as a toy boat I had as a kid, Forward facing tiller with a rubber band keeping the tiller straight and an aft facing tiller the mainsheet was attached to. Worked well.

#59 Tucky

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:31 PM

If the mizzen pulls the rudder down it would compensate for weather helm.


If you took the mizzen down, that would compensate for weather helm as well.



Wouldn't it?

No offense, of course, to those folks on the Thames, who knew what they were doing. I just wish I knew what they were doing.

#60 Presuming Ed

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:47 PM

when you throw the helm down to come about it hauls the mizzen to weather and that helps push the stern around?


Yup

#61 JumpingJax

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:01 PM

I guess that mizzen sheeting to the rudder would help if there were weather helm problems. That is an odd detail. I'd like to learn why it's done like that.
What a noble looking vessel.


Noble but over the top for your original purpose. Check out an Opti rig if the juniors in your area sail Optis. V. simple but rather effective implementation of the spritsail rig and far more suited to a dinghy you're interested in.

And if you want more local (US) detail, I think John Gardner has a discussion in one of his books and Chappel discussed it a bit in one (possibly more) of his small sailing craft histories. Surely you have these on your shelf, all dusty and yellowing, perhaps, but they must still be there somewhere! How could you have come so far without them?

I believe that the spritsail rig was the usual choice for a sailing Whitehall.

#62 Bob Perry

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:42 PM

Jax:
I'm drawing a fucking cartoon! I'm not rigging a boat for the AC. I just wanted my cartoon to be accurate.
I strive for accuracy in life.
Not all the time.

A sailing Whitehall? That is not a pretty image. There is nothing about a Whitehall that could make it sail well and I don't care what the rig is.
I have spent many hours in Whitehalls. I knw that boat well. It was never designed to sail. I know they offer rigs for them but that is just stupid unles "sailing" means going downwind.

I';m through being Mr Nice Guy.

#63 Tucky

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:01 AM

So this means you are going on offense, Bob?

As opposed to no offense?

No offense intended of course.

#64 fastyacht

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:24 AM

Jax:
I'm drawing a fucking cartoon! I'm not rigging a boat for the AC. I just wanted my cartoon to be accurate.
I strive for accuracy in life.
Not all the time.

A sailing Whitehall? That is not a pretty image. There is nothing about a Whitehall that could make it sail well and I don't care what the rig is.
I have spent many hours in Whitehalls. I knw that boat well. It was never designed to sail. I know they offer rigs for them but that is just stupid unles "sailing" means going downwind.

I';m through being Mr Nice Guy.


Yes, downwind :-)

#65 gusmus

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:49 AM

The small mizzen is only used as a tacking aid along with a rope bridle on the jib called a bowline. The bowline keeps the jib backed and the rudder pulls the mizzen to windward causing the barge to spin on her working leeboard. They are very agile vessels and surprisingly fast due to their flat bottom. On the Thames barges, the spritsail is generally bent permanently to the mast and the head-rope holds the sprit in place with the snotter (usually chain) holding the bottom of the sprit up. All reefing is done by the brails which wind the sail in towards the mast like a large theatre curtain. The only working halyard on the aft sails I have ever used or seen are for the topsail although a lot of boats were semi personalised by their skippers so it's quite possible to find a dozen different ways to tackle the same job. Some barges even had a permanently hoisted half-sprit and the mainsail was hauled up and set like a loose-footed gaff-sail. Others set a full gaff rig especially for ocean trips (several were sailed out to the River Plate) but these were generally known as "Boomies" instead of "Spritties".

#66 Bob Perry

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:55 AM

Gus:
I hereby appoint you as the spritsail expert for the WLYDO.
Go back and sit in your comfy office and we'll call you when we need you again.
Take a book.

#67 gusmus

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:19 AM

Gus:
I hereby appoint you as the spritsail expert for the WLYDO.
Go back and sit in your comfy office and we'll call you when we need you again.
Take a book.

Thank you Bob. I will await your call. In the meantime I have selected a hand bound volume of "Spritsail Cruising with Bob Perry including technical notes by W C Fields".

#68 Anomaly2

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:30 AM

I'm drawing a fucking cartoon!


Hmmmmm,...

(Hey Moe, any idea what Bob is thinking about while holed up there at the beach shack?)

#69 fastyacht

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:08 AM


Jax:
I'm drawing a fucking cartoon! I'm not rigging a boat for the AC. I just wanted my cartoon to be accurate.
I strive for accuracy in life.
Not all the time.

A sailing Whitehall? That is not a pretty image. There is nothing about a Whitehall that could make it sail well and I don't care what the rig is.
I have spent many hours in Whitehalls. I knw that boat well. It was never designed to sail. I know they offer rigs for them but that is just stupid unles "sailing" means going downwind.

I';m through being Mr Nice Guy.


Yes, downwind :-)


From Chapelle:

[Whitehalls] "which covered great distances, such as ship-chandlers' boats, often were fitted to sail, and had a small centerboard and a low spritsail."

#70 Bob Perry

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:18 PM

I have sailed a Whitehall.

#71 Gatekeeper

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:14 PM

Gus:
I hereby appoint you as the spritsail expert for the WLYDO.
Go back and sit in your comfy office and we'll call you when we need you again.
Take a book.


Good....you can give him my office in the WLYDO sub basement. We carvers don't get no respect.

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#72 Elegua

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:23 PM

Of course, Opti's being what they are these days, that little snotter is un-cored spectra with a splice to go over the end of the sprit.

#73 gusmus

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:11 PM


Gus:
I hereby appoint you as the spritsail expert for the WLYDO.
Go back and sit in your comfy office and we'll call you when we need you again.
Take a book.


Good....you can give him my office in the WLYDO sub basement. We carvers don't get no respect.

I agree wholeheartedly. I'm not sure that the Perry Sprit cruising book will be long enough to hold out. Maybe we need to start a "Cruising Anarchy" forum to get our our voices heard because this "Perry Anarchy" forum is getting bogged down somewhat. Sorry BOB.

#74 Paps

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:58 PM

Cue cheer squad.

#75 chriscod

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:09 AM

Bob and Anarchists

There are a ton of great nautical books from the 1880's-1930's on Internet Archive or Google Books. Several are authored by Dixon Kemp, GC Davies A Keneally and others who essentially gave birth to the advent of amateur "Yachting" and they published material about local boat designs and their pros and cons. There are great diagrams of "snotters" and interesting observations on the sea keeping qualities of many different boats and rigs. I didnt find any "tits" though....they probably kept those to themselves :rolleyes:

http://archive.org/d...htand00kempgoog

#76 fastyacht

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 02:42 AM

Bob and Anarchists

There are a ton of great nautical books from the 1880's-1930's on Internet Archive or Google Books. Several are authored by Dixon Kemp, GC Davies A Keneally and others who essentially gave birth to the advent of amateur "Yachting" and they published material about local boat designs and their pros and cons. There are great diagrams of "snotters" and interesting observations on the sea keeping qualities of many different boats and rigs. I didnt find any "tits" though....they probably kept those to themselves :rolleyes:/>

http://archive.org/d...htand00kempgoog


great link!

#77 breezetrees

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:01 AM

I have questions about rigging the sprit. I have never sailed one as I recall.


Posted Image

#78 Bob Perry

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:16 AM

Oh ohhh!
Shitski

I guess you caught me on that one.
I was looking at the photo thinking, "That guy looks a lot like me." " His butt is bigger but other than that,,,"

If I were to write a caption for that photo it would be:
"So, you're telling me that if I pull the stick this way, the rudder goes that way. Right. Got that. But which way does the boat go?"

#79 Anomaly2

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:21 AM

Bob,

No offense, but i honestly think you should try and keep your head a little lower while you ponder the mysteries of tiller steering....

#80 Bob Perry

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:24 AM

There are just too many fucking moving parts.

#81 breezetrees

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:40 AM

I thought you were thinking "It would steer much better if we put another sail back here"

#82 Ishmael

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:45 AM

"This stern is all wrong. I could do this better. What's with this dog dick for a tiller? This is not a tiller. Where's the Lifesling?"

#83 Bob Perry

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:56 PM

Damn paparazzi!

#84 olaf hart

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:10 PM


I have questions about rigging the sprit. I have never sailed one as I recall.


Posted Image


"Why is the back of this thing flat? I thought boats were supposed to have pointed sterns!"

#85 JumpingJax

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:49 PM


I have questions about rigging the sprit. I have never sailed one as I recall.


Posted Image


Who did the lofting of that Whitehall? Way too much ass end! (Not enough for Bob, but still, ....)

#86 SemiSalt

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:36 PM

Kingston Lobster Boat by Pete Culler. Sails by Z-sails.


Posted Image

#87 fastyacht

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:29 AM

There are a number of sprit rigged boats at Mystic I have sailed regularly:

here's one:
http://www.flickr.co...N04/4672584357/
and more of her type:
http://www.nycsail.c...es/skiffs_3.jpg

#88 Oxygen Mask

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 12:31 AM

.... there is a fair amount of fiction in some of Jones' non-fiction, but that book seemed pretty realistic to me, at least the sea-going parts.

Only landlubbers would question the accuracy of Jones' stories. Sailors know, at an instinctive level, that a tale is not to be judged on the veracity, but rather on the quality of the telling. i.e Entertainment value.

I love the idea of space flight using a math model that everyone knew was wrong (in a way) but quite useful.


Kinda like the way we all teach new folks what makes a sailboat work - the classic theory that everyone knows is wrong, but it's easy to visualize and convenient so we keep on using it...




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