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KC Chiefs player shoots girlfriend then kills self

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#1 doghouse

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:03 PM

http://espn.go.com/n...e-team-facility

Rumors on twitter are that it's Jovan Belcher, but I have no idea if that's accurate

#2 Sol Rosenberg

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:18 PM

Now are there enough Indians?

Too soon?

#3 R Booth

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:23 PM

Another murder/suicide committed by a dyslexic loser....

#4 boomer

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:30 PM

Looser ! ?

While many young people every year set their goals on becoming NFL players, it is extremely difficult to reach that level. Statistically of the 100,000 high school seniors who play football every year, only 215 will ever make an NFL roster. That is 0.2%! Even of the 9,000 players that make it to the college level only 310 are invited to the NFL scouting combine, the pool from which teams make their draft picks.

#5 mikewof

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:34 PM

Another murder/suicide committed by a dyslexic loser....


Jeez Rick, forget your heart and soul in Florida?

The Chiefs are having a miserable season, I can't imagine that would be helpful for a player with aready shakey emotional health or even head injuries.

#6 soak_ed

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:28 PM


Another murder/suicide committed by a dyslexic loser....


Jeez Rick, forget your heart and soul in Florida?

The Chiefs are having a miserable season, I can't imagine that would be helpful for a player with aready shakey emotional health or even head injuries.


Everybody knows being a Chiefs fan is the toughest job in all of fandom. Like this poor guy: http://www.usatoday....it-man/1712301/

Obviously the despair has even spread to the players now.

#7 Sol Rosenberg

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:40 PM

Miserable scumbags are seemingly never content to wallow in their own misery alone; they always have to screw up other peoples' lives as well. Happens all too often, in one form or another....

#8 boomer

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:16 PM

Could of been a psycho girlfriend who drove him to the edge....think I'll wait for the facts, rather then hypothesize.

#9 R Booth

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:31 PM

Could of been a psycho girlfriend who drove him to the edge....think I'll wait for the facts, rather then hypothesize.



So you subscribe to the notion that psychoism is a transmittable disease?...

#10 boomer

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:44 PM

Nope.... but normal people are driven to do the unthinkable by wackos.... ;)

#11 mikewof

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:50 PM

Nope.... but normal people are driven to do the unthinkable by wackos.... ;)/>


... and by the women they love.

#12 Sol Rosenberg

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:02 AM

Sorry, but unless the murderer was acting in self defense, I can't think of anything that justifies killing her, no matter what she did. He couldn't just take himself out. Assholes always have to fuck up someone else's life.

#13 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:08 AM

Who said anything justifies killing anyone.

#14 Sol Rosenberg

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:10 AM

Who said anything justifies killing anyone.



I said it. Can you read English?

#15 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:13 AM

Not unless your speaking Yiddish ...are you ready to kill me.... :lol:

Now go play with yourself kid.

Edit: Deleted the childish part, eh Sol....sounded like you were going psycho..... ;)

#16 Sol Rosenberg

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:25 AM

If you have something against editing, perhaps you should not use the edit function, lest you appear hypocritical.

#17 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:43 AM

Blood pressure return to normal? Feeling better now?

Funny how that works,eh....now you were saying something about assholes or was it cocksuckers?

#18 Sol Rosenberg

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:46 AM

Or perhaps it was idiots.

#19 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:53 AM

There ya go! :)

Looking in a mirror, eh....

#20 Sol Rosenberg

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:56 AM

Ah, the "I know you are but what am I" retort.

grumpy?

#21 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:57 AM

ROTFLMAO

#22 Sol Rosenberg

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:59 AM

Ah, that's better. Signal to noise ratio back under control.

Like I said, miserable scumbags never wallow alone, they want to bring someone with them. Nice to have an ignore function.

#23 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 01:02 AM

Hmmm....really sound like a miserable scumbag....not!....sad to say, it sounds like a tragedy.

He was the last person in the world you would expect," Linta said. "Completely out of character for the guy I know. I didn't have a lot of individual contact with him but this is so out of character for him. Completely out of character. He was charitable, polite, articulate -- and something went crazy wrong."



A large group of Belcher's friends and relatives gathered Saturday at his boyhood home on Long Island.
His family turned the front yard into a shrine, with a large poster of Belcher, an array of his trophies, and jerseys and jackets from Kansas City, Maine and West Babylon High.
"He was a good, good person ... a family man. A loving guy," said family friend Ruben Marshall, who said he coached Belcher in youth football. "You couldn't be around a better person."
At least 20 people gathered for a large group hug in the driveway.
"He was a tremendous player and all those things, and his accolades speak for themselves, but he lit up when he spoke about his mom, or when he hugged his family after games," said Dwayne Wilmot, who was Belcher's position coach at Maine and is now an assistant coach at Yale.
"It's difficult to talk about Jovan in the past tense," he told the AP. "There's going to be unanswered questions, the why's of this tragedy. It'll never be truly known to us."
Wilmot said he'd stayed in touch with Belcher the past few years through social media.
"He was someone who took genuine pleasure in bringing happiness to others," Wilmot said. "I was so excited when he became a father, because I knew he'd be a great father."


http://espn.go.com/n...e-team-facility

http://www.foxnews.c...owhead-stadium/

#24 Sol Rosenberg

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 01:35 AM

http://sports.yahoo....51891--nfl.html

Left a three year old behind. Sad.

Must have been some argument to drive him to do that. Girlfriend's mom was there to see it. I'm sure she helped a lot with great advice, in a Common Scold kind of way.

#25 boomer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 01:54 AM

Must have been some argument to drive him to do that.


Probably took more then one argument to push someone, "who took genuine pleasure in bringing happiness to others"

"He was someone who took genuine pleasure in bringing happiness to others," Wilmot said. "I was so excited when he became a father, because I knew he'd be a great father."

He was the last person in the world you would expect," Linta said. "Completely out of character for the guy I know... Completely out of character. He was charitable, polite, articulate -- and something went crazy wrong.



#26 Anthonyvop

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 11:25 PM

Hmmm....really sound like a miserable scumbag....not!....sad to say, it sounds like a tragedy.

He was the last person in the world you would expect," Linta said. "Completely out of character for the guy I know. I didn't have a lot of individual contact with him but this is so out of character for him. Completely out of character. He was charitable, polite, articulate -- and something went crazy wrong."



A large group of Belcher's friends and relatives gathered Saturday at his boyhood home on Long Island.
His family turned the front yard into a shrine, with a large poster of Belcher, an array of his trophies, and jerseys and jackets from Kansas City, Maine and West Babylon High.
"He was a good, good person ... a family man. A loving guy," said family friend Ruben Marshall, who said he coached Belcher in youth football. "You couldn't be around a better person."
At least 20 people gathered for a large group hug in the driveway.
"He was a tremendous player and all those things, and his accolades speak for themselves, but he lit up when he spoke about his mom, or when he hugged his family after games," said Dwayne Wilmot, who was Belcher's position coach at Maine and is now an assistant coach at Yale.
"It's difficult to talk about Jovan in the past tense," he told the AP. "There's going to be unanswered questions, the why's of this tragedy. It'll never be truly known to us."
Wilmot said he'd stayed in touch with Belcher the past few years through social media.
"He was someone who took genuine pleasure in bringing happiness to others," Wilmot said. "I was so excited when he became a father, because I knew he'd be a great father."


http://espn.go.com/n...e-team-facility

http://www.foxnews.c...owhead-stadium/


Almost every Murderer and pedophile in prison has a Relative or friend who say pretty much the same things.

The only real Fact we know is that he committed a violent and cowardly act and should be remembered for that.

#27 R Booth

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 11:42 PM


Must have been some argument to drive him to do that.


Probably took more then one argument to push someone, "who took genuine pleasure in bringing happiness to others"

"He was someone who took genuine pleasure in bringing happiness to others," Wilmot said. "I was so excited when he became a father, because I knew he'd be a great father."

He was the last person in the world you would expect," Linta said. "Completely out of character for the guy I know... Completely out of character. He was charitable, polite, articulate -- and something went crazy wrong.


Taken right out of the How a Defense Attorneys Should Speak To Reporters On The Courthouse Steps handbook....

#28 Foreverslow

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:15 AM

That dickhead Bob Costas just tried to blame the whole incident on handguns during the Sunday night game.
Stupid f'king cunt.
Bet that cock sucker never shot a weapon in his life.

Could not be a person trained for past 15 years about using rage to his advantage?
Or being given breaks because they can play a stupid game.
He could have used his hands, or a bat on her.

Put the blame on this one where it belongs Bob.
The way glorify these oversized apes because they tell us they are better than us working stiffs.
How they always get off with an apology and a couple days of community service in the off season when they go off be it beatign their old lady, punching out somene in a club, or running over someone while dwi in their Escalade.

I got a better idea.
Put assholes NFL players who attack women in jail for double time as they were given breaks and still found a way to f up.
Do the same for baseball and basketball too.
Maybe the assaults would stop.

#29 mikewof

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:29 AM

Anyone who is judging this guy has never experienced the wrath of an emotionally ill woman.

She may have been sober as a preacher and he was in fact the crazy one. But anyone who has lived through it knows not to jump to conclusions.

If you're able to judge him consider yourself fortunate that you've never loved a woman who drove you to the edge of psychosis.

#30 Bull Gator

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:34 AM

You are pretty nuts. Are you blaming it on your ex?

#31 mikewof

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:38 AM

You are pretty nuts. Are you blaming it on your ex?


For you to understand what I am explaining would necessitate that you give yourself to someone in a long term, committed relationship, even if that person you love comes with a lot of problems.

Since you are apparently are the one with the problems and do not have a committed relationship, it is unlikely you understand.

#32 JBSF

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:55 AM

If the ammunition used to kill had been heavily taxed and limited to just an individual being able to purchase only 100 rounds at a time - this tragedy would never have happened.

#33 Foreverslow

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:07 PM

If the ammunition used to kill had been heavily taxed and limited to just an individual being able to purchase only 100 rounds at a time - this tragedy would never have happened.


what is that Chris Rock said? charge $5,000 a bullet and there would be no more shot innocent bystanders as people would be more careful who they killed with a gun.

On the news this morning the following has come out about Belcher:
The dude played at U of Maine where he got his degree in Child Development & Family Relationships, and was on the Male athletes against violence (you cannot make this shit up...)

Freinds said he was drinking heavily and taking pain killers daily to allievate pain from head injuries.

They had noted a change in his attitude in the past couple weeks. He had become more combative with everyone.


So it does not look like his girlfriend, or guns were the issue.
Bob Costas is an idiot driving a seperate agenda which the NFL loves because changes the focus.

Lets hope some real journalists dig into this one.
-How did the team physican evaluate this guy? Did they know what drugs he was taking and why?
-When was the last time he took a pee test to see if the reports of drug taking are true?
-What did he tell his personal physican was going on?

#34 JBSF

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:51 PM


If the ammunition used to kill had been heavily taxed and limited to just an individual being able to purchase only 100 rounds at a time - this tragedy would never have happened.


what is that Chris Rock said? charge $5,000 a bullet and there would be no more shot innocent bystanders as people would be more careful who they killed with a gun.


Yes

#35 dolphinmaster

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:53 PM


If the ammunition used to kill had been heavily taxed and limited to just an individual being able to purchase only 100 rounds at a time - this tragedy would never have happened.


what is that Chris Rock said? charge $5,000 a bullet and there would be no more shot innocent bystanders as people would be more careful who they killed with a gun.

On the news this morning the following has come out about Belcher:
The dude played at U of Maine where he got his degree in Child Development & Family Relationships, and was on the Male athletes against violence (you cannot make this shit up...)

Freinds said he was drinking heavily and taking pain killers daily to allievate pain from head injuries.

They had noted a change in his attitude in the past couple weeks. He had become more combative with everyone.


So it does not look like his girlfriend, or guns were the issue.
Bob Costas is an idiot driving a seperate agenda which the NFL loves because changes the focus.

Lets hope some real journalists dig into this one.
-How did the team physican evaluate this guy? Did they know what drugs he was taking and why?
-When was the last time he took a pee test to see if the reports of drug taking are true?
-What did he tell his personal physican was going on?



Be interesting or sad to see if he was on any psychoactive meds as well as the pain meds. Head injuries can lead to the pandora's box of PTSD's. I Read recently where for every service member killed in the middle east over the last 20 yrs, 25 commit suicide here at home. The common thread is PTSD and psychoactive meds as the "solution".

#36 silent bob

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:04 PM

That dickhead Bob Costas just tried to blame the whole incident on handguns during the Sunday night game.
Stupid f'king cunt.
Bet that cock sucker never shot a weapon in his life.

Could not be a person trained for past 15 years about using rage to his advantage?
Or being given breaks because they can play a stupid game.
He could have used his hands, or a bat on her.

Put the blame on this one where it belongs Bob.
The way glorify these oversized apes because they tell us they are better than us working stiffs.
How they always get off with an apology and a couple days of community service in the off season when they go off be it beatign their old lady, punching out somene in a club, or running over someone while dwi in their Escalade.

I got a better idea.
Put assholes NFL players who attack women in jail for double time as they were given breaks and still found a way to f up.
Do the same for baseball and basketball too.
Maybe the assaults would stop.


Would it make Gay Baitor happier if he pushed her out the window?

#37 R Booth

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:09 PM

I wonder how many firearms Costas has? Or if his body guards have CCW's? You know, ala Rosie and the other hypocritical Hollywood Eliters?.....

#38 silent bob

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:45 PM

Posted Image

Bob Costas uses Jovan Belcher tragedy to advocate for gun control


Shut the Fuck Up, Bob. And go get another face lift.

#39 R Booth

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:59 PM

Posted Image

Bob Costas uses Jovan Belcher tragedy to advocate for gun control


Shut the Fuck Up, Bob. And go get another face lift.


On another note, he and John Edwards could make some pretty good looking kids.....

#40 mad

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:15 PM


If the ammunition used to kill had been heavily taxed and limited to just an individual being able to purchase only 100 rounds at a time - this tragedy would never have happened.


what is that Chris Rock said? charge $5,000 a bullet and there would be no more shot innocent bystanders as people would be more careful who they killed with a gun.

On the news this morning the following has come out about Belcher:
The dude played at U of Maine where he got his degree in Child Development & Family Relationships, and was on the Male athletes against violence (you cannot make this shit up...)

Freinds said he was drinking heavily and taking pain killers daily to allievate pain from head injuries.

They had noted a change in his attitude in the past couple weeks. He had become more combative with everyone.


So it does not look like his girlfriend, or guns were the issue.
Bob Costas is an idiot driving a seperate agenda which the NFL loves because changes the focus.

Lets hope some real journalists dig into this one.
-How did the team physican evaluate this guy? Did they know what drugs he was taking and why?
-When was the last time he took a pee test to see if the reports of drug taking are true?
-What did he tell his personal physican was going on?

Not defending any cause, but that type of behaviour was seen in some levels of boxing. Consistent blows to the head, light, heavy or any mix do not help. Add meds/alcohol etc???

Coach guys not pick up on this?

#41 Cement_Shoes

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:33 PM



If the ammunition used to kill had been heavily taxed and limited to just an individual being able to purchase only 100 rounds at a time - this tragedy would never have happened.


what is that Chris Rock said? charge $5,000 a bullet and there would be no more shot innocent bystanders as people would be more careful who they killed with a gun.

On the news this morning the following has come out about Belcher:
The dude played at U of Maine where he got his degree in Child Development & Family Relationships, and was on the Male athletes against violence (you cannot make this shit up...)

Freinds said he was drinking heavily and taking pain killers daily to allievate pain from head injuries.

They had noted a change in his attitude in the past couple weeks. He had become more combative with everyone.


So it does not look like his girlfriend, or guns were the issue.
Bob Costas is an idiot driving a seperate agenda which the NFL loves because changes the focus.

Lets hope some real journalists dig into this one.
-How did the team physican evaluate this guy? Did they know what drugs he was taking and why?
-When was the last time he took a pee test to see if the reports of drug taking are true?
-What did he tell his personal physican was going on?

Not defending any cause, but that type of behaviour was seen in some levels of boxing. Consistent blows to the head, light, heavy or any mix do not help. Add meds/alcohol etc???

Coach guys not pick up on this?


It might be fairly common for players to exhibit some if not most of these signs during the season. Especially on a team with the season down the drain.

If there are five guys in the locker room acting like he was and only one snaps it is hard to lay it at the feet of the coaches and staff for missing how dangerous he had become.

#42 Foreverslow

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:58 AM


That dickhead Bob Costas just tried to blame the whole incident on handguns during the Sunday night game.
Stupid f'king cunt.
Bet that cock sucker never shot a weapon in his life.

Could not be a person trained for past 15 years about using rage to his advantage?
Or being given breaks because they can play a stupid game.
He could have used his hands, or a bat on her.

Put the blame on this one where it belongs Bob.
The way glorify these oversized apes because they tell us they are better than us working stiffs.
How they always get off with an apology and a couple days of community service in the off season when they go off be it beatign their old lady, punching out somene in a club, or running over someone while dwi in their Escalade.

I got a better idea.
Put assholes NFL players who attack women in jail for double time as they were given breaks and still found a way to f up.
Do the same for baseball and basketball too.
Maybe the assaults would stop.


Would it make Gay Baitor happier if he pushed her out the window?


Don Imus this morning with NY sports douche Mike Lupica who talks like Bob Costas and wants to ban guns.
Don then asked "Well, if he had smothered her, would you be asking to outlaw pillows?"

#43 R Booth

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:16 AM



That dickhead Bob Costas just tried to blame the whole incident on handguns during the Sunday night game.
Stupid f'king cunt.
Bet that cock sucker never shot a weapon in his life.

Could not be a person trained for past 15 years about using rage to his advantage?
Or being given breaks because they can play a stupid game.
He could have used his hands, or a bat on her.

Put the blame on this one where it belongs Bob.
The way glorify these oversized apes because they tell us they are better than us working stiffs.
How they always get off with an apology and a couple days of community service in the off season when they go off be it beatign their old lady, punching out somene in a club, or running over someone while dwi in their Escalade.

I got a better idea.
Put assholes NFL players who attack women in jail for double time as they were given breaks and still found a way to f up.
Do the same for baseball and basketball too.
Maybe the assaults would stop.


Would it make Gay Baitor happier if he pushed her out the window?


Don Imus this morning with NY sports douche Mike Lupica who talks like Bob Costas and wants to ban guns.
Don then asked "Well, if he had smothered her, would you be asking to outlaw pillows?"


I'm sure Nicole would have much rather been smothered in 1600 tc Egytian cotton pillow cases, than with a hunting knife.

Costas, Lupica and their moronic elk just oughta fade away to the men's locker forever.....

#44 hard aground

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:16 AM

Costas, Lupica and their moronic elk just oughta fade away to the men's locker forever.....

This is what I got when I googled moronic elk:
Posted Image..........................................................................................................................................................................................
I suppose that is pretty close................

#45 R Booth

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:39 AM



Costas, Lupica and their moronic elk just oughta fade away to the men's locker forever.....

This is what I got when I googled moronic elk:
Posted Image..........................................................................................................................................................................................
I suppose that is pretty close................


(with apologies to all the elks of the world)....

#46 hobot

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:24 AM

"Elk", one of the better jokes around here.

#47 GRUMPY

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:56 AM

Anyone who is judging this guy has never experienced the wrath of an emotionally ill woman.

She may have been sober as a preacher and he was in fact the crazy one. But anyone who has lived through it knows not to jump to conclusions.

If you're able to judge him consider yourself fortunate that you've never loved a woman who drove you to the edge of psychosis.


Yep. And women get raped because of short skirts and low necklines. You know they're asking for it. <_<

#48 soak_ed

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:25 AM


Anyone who is judging this guy has never experienced the wrath of an emotionally ill woman.

She may have been sober as a preacher and he was in fact the crazy one. But anyone who has lived through it knows not to jump to conclusions.

If you're able to judge him consider yourself fortunate that you've never loved a woman who drove you to the edge of psychosis.


Yep. And women get raped because of short skirts and low necklines. You know they're asking for it. <_<


Yeah, Wofsey is full of shit as usual. When I married my second wife I knew I would be in for a hell of a ride. She had PTSD from an 18 year physically and emotionally abusive relationship. She had substance abuse problems. She had an eating disorder. In short she was all fucked up. In spite of all this I still married her (there were some compensations and I love a challenge). 10 years later when it all crashed and burned in a very ugly way, I walked away from the smoking wreckage, older, wiser and barely alive. I never once contemplated laying a hand on that woman at any time because you just don't do that. It was a hell of an experience, I had a lot of fun and a lot of stress but I would probably do it all again because I am that kind of guy. In a yin and yang kind of way I loved the fact that when we started our relationship she spent some time in a psych hospital and when it ended she had just been discharged from a psych hospital. The circle of dysfunctional life!

Bottom line, there is no justification for what the Chiefs player did, no woman drove him to it. You can't always control your emotions but you can control your behavior. Period.

#49 doghouse

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:30 PM

You can't always control your emotions but you can control your behavior. Period.


And that is the long and short of it.

#50 Foreverslow

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:55 PM

From today's news:
1. Bob Costas has to put out a retraction yesterday, though I have yet to find a link. The weasel is backtracking big time.
there are folks going for his job, as this is his 2nd clusterfuk talking shit on the air. Best watch it or he will be doing sports on the Current channel with his disgraced news buddy Keith Olbermann (eg the penalty box for tv cementheads).

2. It is now reported Belcher was not at home waiting for his girlfriend to come back from partying as was told to all of us on Sunday. Instead he was partying hard with some other chick until the early hours. Got home and got into a fight when his kid's mom rolled in. If these 2 knuckleheads had been home TAKING CARE OF THEIR KID, none of this would have happened. Someone needs to investigate that bogus kids and family degree he got from the U of Maine. Looks more BS all the time and on the taxpayer's dime and he never learned a damn thing..

#51 R Booth

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:20 PM

Caught some wierdo named Ed Show last night on the tube for a few minutes, basically congratulating Bob on starting this 'conversation' on guns & gun control on national tv (gawd damn but I'm so f'ng sick of that word). He also wants the NFL to prohibit any pro-footballers from playing in the league if they own any firearms.

F'ng brilliant, si como no?....

#52 Cement_Shoes

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:20 PM

Don Imus this morning with NY sports douche Mike Lupica who talks like Bob Costas and wants to ban guns.
Don then asked "Well, if he had smothered her, would you be asking to outlaw pillows?"


Chances are he wouldn't have been able to commit suicide with the police closing in by pillow.

I am not wading into the legal issues involving guns and it looks like it was a legally owned gun that was used in the murder suicide. Probably even as strict gun laws in place that could ever pass in the US, Belcher would still have been able to legally purchase the gun he used.

However, I do believe that there is something impersonal about guns, in a fit of anger, rage, drunkenness, whatever the case may be it is more likely that some one will pull the trigger than that they would kill in some other manner.

There is a disconnect and lack of immediacy in pulling a trigger that isn't there in in other methods of killing, In this case Belcher might have killed her with his bare hands if no weapon was available. It will never be known.

Unfortunately the glamorization of gun culture far outstrips fire arm safety education. And as a society that so mourns the loss of life we are callous towards it. When you combine all these attitudes with the gun laws we have too many accidental shootings and needless shootings.

#53 R Booth

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:26 PM

The only people who 'glamourize' "gun culture" are Hollywooders and certain members of the music industry. The rest of us responsible people just look at firearm ownership as either a hobby, a sport, or a past time......

#54 Bull Gator

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:33 PM

It's not a sport chump. Pulling a trigger require no athletic ability (which is why you like to shoot guns)

Troubling.

#55 Snaggletooth

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:44 PM

It's not a sport chump. Pulling a trigger require no athletic ability (which is why you like to shoot guns)

Troubling.

Posted Image

#56 Bull Gator

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:44 PM

God this foverslow guy is well slow. Costas is not budging on his reasonable and principled stand. It is high time tough gun control laws were passed.

#57 Snaggletooth

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:45 PM

God this foverslow guy is well slow. Costas is not budging on his reasonable and principled stand. It is high time tough gun control laws were passed.

Posted Image

#58 R Booth

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:48 PM

Yeah Gator, 'cuz at this moment, there are absolutely NO 'gun control' laws. Jeezis.

Really, just go back to bed and stop posting....you're missing Romper Room....

#59 tq2000

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:55 PM

I think that people who see legal firearms as substantially increasing the probability of murder are projecting a bit. I don't think people who are predisposed to murder care how up close and personal a particular weapon is, just as I don't believe that people who see firearms as the only way they could take a life are likely to ever commit murder. People who would never kill someone imagine that it would be more difficult with a knife than a gun, but it is just that, imagination. Reality proves that notion wrong.

#60 Cement_Shoes

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:15 PM

I think that people who see legal firearms as substantially increasing the probability of murder are projecting a bit. I don't think people who are predisposed to murder care how up close and personal a particular weapon is, just as I don't believe that people who see firearms as the only way they could take a life are likely to ever commit murder. People who would never kill someone imagine that it would be more difficult with a knife than a gun, but it is just that, imagination. Reality proves that notion wrong.


Are you basing this on the huge amount of road rage killings that take place with a tire iron, which almost every car has, compared to the number of road rage killings by gun, which much fewer drivers have access to?

#61 tq2000

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:06 PM


I think that people who see legal firearms as substantially increasing the probability of murder are projecting a bit. I don't think people who are predisposed to murder care how up close and personal a particular weapon is, just as I don't believe that people who see firearms as the only way they could take a life are likely to ever commit murder. People who would never kill someone imagine that it would be more difficult with a knife than a gun, but it is just that, imagination. Reality proves that notion wrong.


Are you basing this on the huge amount of road rage killings that take place with a tire iron, which almost every car has, compared to the number of road rage killings by gun, which much fewer drivers have access to?


Do you have stats on what percentage of road rage killings involve a handgun? It seems to me that a 2,500lb projectile traveling 70mph can do at least as much damage as a projectile weighing .26 ounces traveling 700mph.

#62 Cement_Shoes

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:16 PM



I think that people who see legal firearms as substantially increasing the probability of murder are projecting a bit. I don't think people who are predisposed to murder care how up close and personal a particular weapon is, just as I don't believe that people who see firearms as the only way they could take a life are likely to ever commit murder. People who would never kill someone imagine that it would be more difficult with a knife than a gun, but it is just that, imagination. Reality proves that notion wrong.


Are you basing this on the huge amount of road rage killings that take place with a tire iron, which almost every car has, compared to the number of road rage killings by gun, which much fewer drivers have access to?


Do you have stats on what percentage of road rage killings involve a handgun? It seems to me that a 2,500lb projectile traveling 70mph can do at least as much damage as a projectile weighing .26 ounces traveling 700mph.


In road rage incidents that reach the level of violence, guns are the number one weapon of choice, Using the car itself is the second most common weapon. So despite the fact that guns are only around in a well under half of cars on the road and that all road rage incidents involve cars, more violence is committed with guns than cars.

#63 tq2000

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:21 PM




I think that people who see legal firearms as substantially increasing the probability of murder are projecting a bit. I don't think people who are predisposed to murder care how up close and personal a particular weapon is, just as I don't believe that people who see firearms as the only way they could take a life are likely to ever commit murder. People who would never kill someone imagine that it would be more difficult with a knife than a gun, but it is just that, imagination. Reality proves that notion wrong.


Are you basing this on the huge amount of road rage killings that take place with a tire iron, which almost every car has, compared to the number of road rage killings by gun, which much fewer drivers have access to?


Do you have stats on what percentage of road rage killings involve a handgun? It seems to me that a 2,500lb projectile traveling 70mph can do at least as much damage as a projectile weighing .26 ounces traveling 700mph.


In road rage incidents that reach the level of violence, guns are the number one weapon of choice, Using the car itself is the second most common weapon. So despite the fact that guns are only around in a well under half of cars on the road and that all road rage incidents involve cars, more violence is committed with guns than cars.


Link to statistics?

#64 Cement_Shoes

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:46 PM





I think that people who see legal firearms as substantially increasing the probability of murder are projecting a bit. I don't think people who are predisposed to murder care how up close and personal a particular weapon is, just as I don't believe that people who see firearms as the only way they could take a life are likely to ever commit murder. People who would never kill someone imagine that it would be more difficult with a knife than a gun, but it is just that, imagination. Reality proves that notion wrong.


Are you basing this on the huge amount of road rage killings that take place with a tire iron, which almost every car has, compared to the number of road rage killings by gun, which much fewer drivers have access to?


Do you have stats on what percentage of road rage killings involve a handgun? It seems to me that a 2,500lb projectile traveling 70mph can do at least as much damage as a projectile weighing .26 ounces traveling 700mph.


In road rage incidents that reach the level of violence, guns are the number one weapon of choice, Using the car itself is the second most common weapon. So despite the fact that guns are only around in a well under half of cars on the road and that all road rage incidents involve cars, more violence is committed with guns than cars.


Link to statistics?


Honestly this isn't a debate that is worth having here. There have been a couple of studies but because of the nature of the material being studied, a nationwide study where the incidents can be under reported and no national standard exists for the reporting, there are no clear cut acceptable to all statistics. I find that the reports are statistical evidence of my position while you would likely find the opposite to be true.

I will remain convinced that there are people who get shot in a moment of passion that would have not been killed except for the presence of a gun and you can remain convinced that no such people exist.

If you find statistics that you think are clear cut proof of your point please post them.

#65 tq2000

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:49 PM

Honestly this isn't a debate that is worth having here. There have been a couple of studies but because of the nature of the material being studied, a nationwide study where the incidents can be under reported and no national standard exists for the reporting, there are no clear cut acceptable to all statistics. I find that the reports are statistical evidence of my position while you would likely find the opposite to be true.

I will remain convinced that there are people who get shot in a moment of passion that would have not been killed except for the presence of a gun and you can remain convinced that no such people exist.

If you find statistics that you think are clear cut proof of your point please post them.


I don't believe that no such people exist. I have not seen evidence that they exist in great enough numbers that we should surrender constitutional rights, or that they exist in greater numbers than people who save their lives by defending themselves with a gun. I am totally open to looking at statistics to the contrary.

#66 JBSF

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:56 AM

Yeah, Wofsey is full of shit as usual. When I married my second wife I knew I would be in for a hell of a ride. She had PTSD from an 18 year physically and emotionally abusive relationship. She had substance abuse problems. She had an eating disorder. In short she was all fucked up. In spite of all this I still married her (there were some compensations and I love a challenge). 10 years later when it all crashed and burned in a very ugly way, I walked away from the smoking wreckage, older, wiser and barely alive. I never once contemplated laying a hand on that woman at any time because you just don't do that. It was a hell of an experience, I had a lot of fun and a lot of stress but I would probably do it all again because I am that kind of guy. In a yin and yang kind of way I loved the fact that when we started our relationship she spent some time in a psych hospital and when it ended she had just been discharged from a psych hospital. The circle of dysfunctional life!

Bottom line, there is no justification for what the Chiefs player did, no woman drove him to it. You can't always control your emotions but you can control your behavior. Period.


Holy FUCK dude! I'd really like to know what kind of compensations there was for you to knowingly sign up for that shit. Especially as wife #2. Was she filthy rich, because I'm having a hard time thinking about what other compensations would be worth that.

Posted Image

#67 JBSF

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:01 PM

Unfortunately the glamorization of gun culture far outstrips fire arm safety education. And as a society that so mourns the loss of life we are callous towards it. When you combine all these attitudes with the gun laws we have too many accidental shootings and needless shootings.


Who is gamorizing this so-called "gun culture"??? Gun owners? The NRA? Who is it?

Andd I don't get your bolded sentence there at all..... how does combining poor attitudes with gun laws do what you describe? Did you mean to say "lack of" gun laws?

#68 JBSF

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:10 PM



In road rage incidents that reach the level of violence, guns are the number one weapon of choice, Using the car itself is the second most common weapon. So despite the fact that guns are only around in a well under half of cars on the road and that all road rage incidents involve cars, more violence is committed with guns than cars.


Link to statistics?


No, I was just talking out of my ass and had nothing whatsoever to back up my bullshit. Honestly, I made it up because it sounded good and frankly I'm just too goddamed lazy to spend the 30 sec of effort it would take to google that.


Fixed

#69 Cement_Shoes

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 03:49 PM




In road rage incidents that reach the level of violence, guns are the number one weapon of choice, Using the car itself is the second most common weapon. So despite the fact that guns are only around in a well under half of cars on the road and that all road rage incidents involve cars, more violence is committed with guns than cars.


Link to statistics?


No, I was just talking out of my ass and had nothing whatsoever to back up my bullshit. Honestly, I made it up because it sounded good and frankly I'm just too goddamed lazy to spend the 30 sec of effort it would take to google that.


Fixed


If you decide to do the google search you will find that the statistics that I have used are the most accurate available but are subject to the caveats that I mentioned.

#70 JBSF

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:01 PM





In road rage incidents that reach the level of violence, guns are the number one weapon of choice, Using the car itself is the second most common weapon. So despite the fact that guns are only around in a well under half of cars on the road and that all road rage incidents involve cars, more violence is committed with guns than cars.


Link to statistics?


No, I was just talking out of my ass and had nothing whatsoever to back up my bullshit. Honestly, I made it up because it sounded good and frankly I'm just too goddamed lazy to spend the 30 sec of effort it would take to google that.


Fixed


If you decide to do the google search you will find that the statistics that I have used are the most accurate available but are subject to the caveats that I mentioned.


Why should I have to go searching for your stats? You made the assertion, someone asked you to back it up with some links and you back-pedaled. Its common practice to back up an assertion of fact like you did if someone asks. Its not up to me or anyone to prove or dissprove your assertions.

#71 Cement_Shoes

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:17 PM


If you decide to do the google search you will find that the statistics that I have used are the most accurate available but are subject to the caveats that I mentioned.


Why should I have to go searching for your stats? You made the assertion, someone asked you to back it up with some links and you back-pedaled. Its common practice to back up an assertion of fact like you did if someone asks. Its not up to me or anyone to prove or dissprove your assertions.


Perhaps you have confused this forum with a court of law. There will be no verdict rendered and I have nothing at stake here.

You do not have to accept my opinions and assertions as fact but I am under no more obligation to prove them than you are under obligation to disprove them.

#72 tq2000

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:43 PM



If you decide to do the google search you will find that the statistics that I have used are the most accurate available but are subject to the caveats that I mentioned.


Why should I have to go searching for your stats? You made the assertion, someone asked you to back it up with some links and you back-pedaled. Its common practice to back up an assertion of fact like you did if someone asks. Its not up to me or anyone to prove or dissprove your assertions.


Perhaps you have confused this forum with a court of law. There will be no verdict rendered and I have nothing at stake here.

You do not have to accept my opinions and assertions as fact but I am under no more obligation to prove them than you are under obligation to disprove them.


That is true, however asserting something as fact in any forum, while being completely unable to back up that assertion, will tend to undermine your own credibility.*



*except in congress.

#73 mikewof

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:04 PM



Anyone who is judging this guy has never experienced the wrath of an emotionally ill woman.

She may have been sober as a preacher and he was in fact the crazy one. But anyone who has lived through it knows not to jump to conclusions.

If you're able to judge him consider yourself fortunate that you've never loved a woman who drove you to the edge of psychosis.


Yep. And women get raped because of short skirts and low necklines. You know they're asking for it. <_</>


Yeah, Wofsey is full of shit as usual. When I married my second wife I knew I would be in for a hell of a ride. She had PTSD from an 18 year physically and emotionally abusive relationship. She had substance abuse problems. She had an eating disorder. In short she was all fucked up. In spite of all this I still married her (there were some compensations and I love a challenge). 10 years later when it all crashed and burned in a very ugly way, I walked away from the smoking wreckage, older, wiser and barely alive. I never once contemplated laying a hand on that woman at any time because you just don't do that. It was a hell of an experience, I had a lot of fun and a lot of stress but I would probably do it all again because I am that kind of guy. In a yin and yang kind of way I loved the fact that when we started our relationship she spent some time in a psych hospital and when it ended she had just been discharged from a psych hospital. The circle of dysfunctional life!

Bottom line, there is no justification for what the Chiefs player did, no woman drove him to it. You can't always control your emotions but you can control your behavior. Period.


Sounds like a lovely young lady compared to ones I've known.

Why are you complaining?

#74 boomer

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:09 PM

That's choice Mike!

I'd also have to agree with Mike....I've seen more then a few royal bitches drive their significant other, who were friends of mine right to the edge....to the point I literally kidnapped my buds and put in a secluded rental, before they did something they regretted.

#75 JBSF

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:00 PM




If you decide to do the google search you will find that the statistics that I have used are the most accurate available but are subject to the caveats that I mentioned.


Why should I have to go searching for your stats? You made the assertion, someone asked you to back it up with some links and you back-pedaled. Its common practice to back up an assertion of fact like you did if someone asks. Its not up to me or anyone to prove or dissprove your assertions.


Perhaps you have confused this forum with a court of law. There will be no verdict rendered and I have nothing at stake here.

You do not have to accept my opinions and assertions as fact but I am under no more obligation to prove them than you are under obligation to disprove them.


That is true, however asserting something as fact in any forum, while being completely unable to back up that assertion, will tend to undermine your own credibility.*



*except in congress.


Exactly. You can say things like "I think" or "In my opinion". But if you throw out something stated as fact, especailly stats, someone is going to call you on it. And when you take the attitude of "I don't have to and you can't make me".... sure that's true - but your future statements will be discarded as so much chaff. Its your call......

#76 mikewof

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:43 PM

That's choice Mike!

I'd also have to agree with Mike....I've seen more then a few royal bitches drive their significant other, who were friends of mine right to the edge....to the point I literally kidnapped my buds and put in a secluded rental, before they did something they regretted.


A rule of thumb with women is that if she is willing to seek any form of professional help (even that of a bartender, bookie or drug dealer) before driving your new truck through the closed garage door, smashing your cell phone with a cast iron pan, punching your mother in the breasts, and screaming at you in your workplace about your lack of endowment both financial and physical while not so secretly screwing someone in your office and training her children to tell their school guidance counselor that you abuse them which would be impossible given your long hours at a second job to pay off said bookie or drug dealer ... that yup, she's pretty much a keeper.

The second I met my one and only I knew she was that keeper and that I better marry her before some similarly tortured sap found her.

The gals have their male versions of these, but they often have it a bit easier than the fellas because they're usually allowed to Angela Lansbury the guy in self defense.

#77 boomer

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:56 PM

I've always wondered what is the ratio keepers to psychos....and which regions or states has a larger percentage of keepers.

#78 Cement_Shoes

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:18 PM

Exactly. You can say things like "I think" or "In my opinion". But if you throw out something stated as fact, especailly stats, someone is going to call you on it. And when you take the attitude of "I don't have to and you can't make me".... sure that's true - but your future statements will be discarded as so much chaff. Its your call......


Most of what is stated on the forums as fact is not cited, some of it is true some of it isn't. I won't lose any sleep about being second guessed because I did not cite statistics for gun use in road rage incidents.

#79 mikewof

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:22 PM

I've always wondered what is the ratio keepers to psychos....and which regions or states has a larger percentage of keepers.


A psycho can become a keeper and vice-versa depending on the skill or neglect of her state's correctional system.

Basically, you need to love her parole officer too. That's important in finding the right woman. And if she won't introduce you to her former cellmates, that's sometimes not a good sign.

#80 JBSF

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:31 PM


I've always wondered what is the ratio keepers to psychos....and which regions or states has a larger percentage of keepers.


A psycho can become a keeper and vice-versa depending on the skill or neglect of her state's correctional system.

Basically, you need to love her parole officer too. That's important in finding the right woman. And if she won't introduce you to her former cellmates, that's sometimes not a good sign.


In the bottle early this morning again?

#81 Point Break

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:34 PM

A view I share with the author...........

http://www.familyjus...c-violence.html
It Was a Clear Case of Domestic Violence





By Casey Gwinn, Esq.


As the news stories continue to flood my Yahoo and Google Alerts about the recent murder-suicide in Kansas City, three things trouble me about the stories. First, the name of Jovan Belcher comes up over and over in headlines and sub-headings but Kasandra Perkins’ life and background is rarely mentioned. Second, NFL experts and others are trying to focus on head trauma and concussive injuries as a likely cause instead of the domestic violence and the actions of an abusive man that form the true foundation of this tragedy. Third, this one murder-suicide is getting tremendous coverage when the many other women, men, and children dying each day in the United States from domestic violence do not merit any national media attention.

Remembering Kasandra Perkins
Jovan Belcher’s history as a Kansas City Chief linebacker, his college football career, and his family are all discussed with many column inches of text in the stories currently circulating. Missing from most stories is the life story of Kasandra Perkins, the young 22 year old mother that Jovan Belcher killed. Kasandra was not on television every week, she was not famous, and she was not a well-known personality in Kansas City. Her name has been often misspelled, but her story is not central in most media accounts to what happened last Saturday when she lost her life. Her friends called her Kasi.

Kasandra grew up in Austin, Texas and graduated from Anderson High School. We don’t know much else yet about her childhood but her cousin Whitney Charles convinced Kasandra to visit Kansas City after high school where she met Jovan Belcher in 2009 at a Christmas dinner for the Chiefs’ players and families. They started dating and two months later, Jovan convinced Kasandra to move to Kansas City. Kasandra loved living in Kansas City, Mexican food, pool parties, bonfires, and hanging out with her girlfriends. Kasandra was young and full of life and she loved being a mother.

She deserves to be remembered for her life and honored and esteemed in death. She deserves far more attention and far more honor and column inches than Jovan Belcher. She was the victim of a heinous crime by a man who claimed to love her and then he shot her many times. We don’t know how many times yet. She, not Jovan Belcher, deserves our honor, our sympathy, and our respect.

A Clear Case of Domestic Violence
Second, we must reject efforts to make this murder about head trauma or gun control. Bob Costas this week pushed for the gun control angle and many have pushed the NFL head trauma angle. But the truth is very clear. It was a clear case of domestic violence homicide and it was done by a man with a history of domestic violence. Indeed, the first news report has already surfaced from the University of Maine where Belcher put his fist through a window in a dispute with a woman – no charges were filed. And a second incident has surfaced during Belcher’s time at the University of Maine where Belcher and his girlfriend were arguing because she had not called him at the time she had promised. His rage led to a police response but no charges were filed. I have little doubt more will surface over time about the history of Jovan Belcher. It will likely have a link to his childhood and to other abusive behaviors with Kasandra Perkins before he killed her.

She died at the hands of man who was likely verbally and emotionally abusive to her. We know he was suicidal now. We know he was homicidal. We know he had access to firearms. We know he was jealous and possessive. Police and friends have already reported a history of arguments and disputes between them before the murder. His rage towards her motivated what he did to her. The killing was the ultimate act of power and control. It was not about head trauma and hopelessness.

Relationships do not go from healthy, happy, and functional to murder-suicide overnight. It never happens. There is almost always a history and there is always a pattern. Over time it will be clear that friends, family, and colleagues knew things and saw things and did not take action. The escalating conflict did not get addressed with the help of outside professionals. And the result? Jovan Belcher consciously chose to kill the mother of his daughter after years of little or no accountability for his rage and abuse. Only then, after becoming a domestic violence murderer, did he choose hopelessness and take his own life.

Many Others Are Also Dying
Finally, Jovan Belcher’s murderous acts and the stories about the tragedy ignore the reality that occurs every day across this country. Kasandra has not been the only woman to die in recent months in the United States of America. There have been hundreds killed since August. Most people did not pay attention and most Americans don’t even know. My friend Cathy Church keeps a website at: http://intimateviole...ws.blogspot.com. She tries to track as many news stories on domestic violence homicides that she can in the country. She has 421 entries since August 1st. But there are many more suspected murders and attempted murders that she is not able to catch. I see them often in more than ten Yahoo and Google alerts that notify me of “domestic violence homicides”, “woman murdered”, “wife killed”, “wife shot”, “girlfriend shot”, “girlfriend killed”, “wife strangled to death”, “girlfriend strangled to death”, “man kills woman”, and a variety of others.

In the last week, more than twenty women have been murdered in the United States in domestic violence homicides. In the holiday season now upon us, even more will die between now and the end of the year. They won’t make the national news and no one will eulogize them on national television. They might rate a local news story but it will fade in a day. The national media should focus on the bigger picture. Most women are killed by a man with a history of violence against women and there is often a failure by friends, family, and professionals to intervene and prevent the death. Today, we know, more than ever based on tremendous work being done by domestic violence professionals across the United States in shelters, Family Justice Centers, law enforcement agencies, community-based sexual assault and domestic violence agencies, and by others that domestic violence homicides are predictable and preventable. It is only a question of resources and priorities. When communities make family violence prevention a major focus area, when agencies work together collaboratively to help victims and their children, and when enough money is dedicated to early intervention and prevention, less women, men, and children die.

Thanks to the leadership of the Obama Administration, the Department of Justice’s Office on Violence Against Women, passionate federal, state, and local legislators, corporate support to stop violence against women and girls, and many dedicated advocates and survivors working across the country we are seeing progress in raising awareness about the impacts of family violence. But core to this effort is telling the truth when high profile tragedies like the killing of Kasandra Perkins’ occurs. Obfuscating, ignoring, refusing to acknowledge the truth and the work we still have ahead of us will not help. The current Republican refusal to pass the comprehensive version of the Violence Against Women Act that all of us in the field support does not help. Failing to shine the light on the problem except when there is an interesting national news tragedy will not help. We need far more and we must all demand far more from the media, our legislators, and the community. Kasandra Perkins' life deserves to be honored by what we do now with all that we know.

The National Domestic Violence Hotline is 1-800-799-SAFE (7232). For information on how to help a friend, go to www.familyjusticecenter.org/jdownloads/viewcategory/56-domestic-violence-101.html. For more information on how to support the re-authorization of VAWA, go to 4vawa.org.

Casey Gwinn is the President of the National Family Justice Center Alliance (www.familyjusticecenter.org). He has authored or co-authored six books and many articles on domestic violence and related abuse during his thirty year career as a prosecutor, social change advocate, and speaker on issues regarding violence against women and girls.

#82 boomer

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:36 PM

A psycho can become a keeper and vice-versa depending on the skill or neglect of her state's correctional system.

Basically, you need to love her parole officer too. That's important in finding the right woman. And if she won't introduce you to her former cellmates, that's sometimes not a good sign.


My wife has never had a ticket...let alone a parole officer...and after almost 40 years together I don't see either happening....

....but, never say never, it could come back on you.

#83 tq2000

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:45 PM


Exactly. You can say things like "I think" or "In my opinion". But if you throw out something stated as fact, especailly stats, someone is going to call you on it. And when you take the attitude of "I don't have to and you can't make me".... sure that's true - but your future statements will be discarded as so much chaff. Its your call......


Most of what is stated on the forums as fact is not cited, some of it is true some of it isn't. I won't lose any sleep about being second guessed because I did not cite statistics for gun use in road rage incidents.


Seems the folks without guns found another weapon to use:

Road rage consists of a wide variety of driver’s aggressive acts taken out on other drivers. Some include speeding, tailgating, flashing headlights, yelling at other drivers, running stop signs or traffic lights, passing on the right, and weaving in and out of traffic. However, according to a study published by the American Automobile Association (AAA) in 1997, 37% of road rage drivers used firearms against another driver, 28% used other weapons, and 35% used their car as a weapon against another driver. And the numbers continue to increase.



cite: http://www.paturnpik...ll98/page08.htm

I looked but could not find the original study done by AAA or I would have linked to that.

#84 R Booth

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:07 PM

A view I share with the author...........

http://www.familyjus...c-violence.html
It Was a Clear Case of Domestic Violence





By Casey Gwinn, Esq.


As the news stories continue to flood my Yahoo and Google Alerts about the recent murder-suicide in Kansas City, three things trouble me about the stories. First, the name of Jovan Belcher comes up over and over in headlines and sub-headings but Kasandra Perkins’ life and background is rarely mentioned. Second, NFL experts and others are trying to focus on head trauma and concussive injuries as a likely cause instead of the domestic violence and the actions of an abusive man that form the true foundation of this tragedy. Third, this one murder-suicide is getting tremendous coverage when the many other women, men, and children dying each day in the United States from domestic violence do not merit any national media attention.

Remembering Kasandra Perkins
Jovan Belcher’s history as a Kansas City Chief linebacker, his college football career, and his family are all discussed with many column inches of text in the stories currently circulating. Missing from most stories is the life story of Kasandra Perkins, the young 22 year old mother that Jovan Belcher killed. Kasandra was not on television every week, she was not famous, and she was not a well-known personality in Kansas City. Her name has been often misspelled, but her story is not central in most media accounts to what happened last Saturday when she lost her life. Her friends called her Kasi.

Kasandra grew up in Austin, Texas and graduated from Anderson High School. We don’t know much else yet about her childhood but her cousin Whitney Charles convinced Kasandra to visit Kansas City after high school where she met Jovan Belcher in 2009 at a Christmas dinner for the Chiefs’ players and families. They started dating and two months later, Jovan convinced Kasandra to move to Kansas City. Kasandra loved living in Kansas City, Mexican food, pool parties, bonfires, and hanging out with her girlfriends. Kasandra was young and full of life and she loved being a mother.

She deserves to be remembered for her life and honored and esteemed in death. She deserves far more attention and far more honor and column inches than Jovan Belcher. She was the victim of a heinous crime by a man who claimed to love her and then he shot her many times. We don’t know how many times yet. She, not Jovan Belcher, deserves our honor, our sympathy, and our respect.

A Clear Case of Domestic Violence
Second, we must reject efforts to make this murder about head trauma or gun control. Bob Costas this week pushed for the gun control angle and many have pushed the NFL head trauma angle. But the truth is very clear. It was a clear case of domestic violence homicide and it was done by a man with a history of domestic violence. Indeed, the first news report has already surfaced from the University of Maine where Belcher put his fist through a window in a dispute with a woman – no charges were filed. And a second incident has surfaced during Belcher’s time at the University of Maine where Belcher and his girlfriend were arguing because she had not called him at the time she had promised. His rage led to a police response but no charges were filed. I have little doubt more will surface over time about the history of Jovan Belcher. It will likely have a link to his childhood and to other abusive behaviors with Kasandra Perkins before he killed her.

She died at the hands of man who was likely verbally and emotionally abusive to her. We know he was suicidal now. We know he was homicidal. We know he had access to firearms. We know he was jealous and possessive. Police and friends have already reported a history of arguments and disputes between them before the murder. His rage towards her motivated what he did to her. The killing was the ultimate act of power and control. It was not about head trauma and hopelessness.

Relationships do not go from healthy, happy, and functional to murder-suicide overnight. It never happens. There is almost always a history and there is always a pattern. Over time it will be clear that friends, family, and colleagues knew things and saw things and did not take action. The escalating conflict did not get addressed with the help of outside professionals. And the result? Jovan Belcher consciously chose to kill the mother of his daughter after years of little or no accountability for his rage and abuse. Only then, after becoming a domestic violence murderer, did he choose hopelessness and take his own life.

Many Others Are Also Dying
Finally, Jovan Belcher’s murderous acts and the stories about the tragedy ignore the reality that occurs every day across this country. Kasandra has not been the only woman to die in recent months in the United States of America. There have been hundreds killed since August. Most people did not pay attention and most Americans don’t even know. My friend Cathy Church keeps a website at: http://intimateviole...ws.blogspot.com. She tries to track as many news stories on domestic violence homicides that she can in the country. She has 421 entries since August 1st. But there are many more suspected murders and attempted murders that she is not able to catch. I see them often in more than ten Yahoo and Google alerts that notify me of “domestic violence homicides”, “woman murdered”, “wife killed”, “wife shot”, “girlfriend shot”, “girlfriend killed”, “wife strangled to death”, “girlfriend strangled to death”, “man kills woman”, and a variety of others.

In the last week, more than twenty women have been murdered in the United States in domestic violence homicides. In the holiday season now upon us, even more will die between now and the end of the year. They won’t make the national news and no one will eulogize them on national television. They might rate a local news story but it will fade in a day. The national media should focus on the bigger picture. Most women are killed by a man with a history of violence against women and there is often a failure by friends, family, and professionals to intervene and prevent the death. Today, we know, more than ever based on tremendous work being done by domestic violence professionals across the United States in shelters, Family Justice Centers, law enforcement agencies, community-based sexual assault and domestic violence agencies, and by others that domestic violence homicides are predictable and preventable. It is only a question of resources and priorities. When communities make family violence prevention a major focus area, when agencies work together collaboratively to help victims and their children, and when enough money is dedicated to early intervention and prevention, less women, men, and children die.

Thanks to the leadership of the Obama Administration, the Department of Justice’s Office on Violence Against Women, passionate federal, state, and local legislators, corporate support to stop violence against women and girls, and many dedicated advocates and survivors working across the country we are seeing progress in raising awareness about the impacts of family violence. But core to this effort is telling the truth when high profile tragedies like the killing of Kasandra Perkins’ occurs. Obfuscating, ignoring, refusing to acknowledge the truth and the work we still have ahead of us will not help. The current Republican refusal to pass the comprehensive version of the Violence Against Women Act that all of us in the field support does not help. Failing to shine the light on the problem except when there is an interesting national news tragedy will not help. We need far more and we must all demand far more from the media, our legislators, and the community. Kasandra Perkins' life deserves to be honored by what we do now with all that we know.

The National Domestic Violence Hotline is 1-800-799-SAFE (7232). For information on how to help a friend, go to www.familyjusticecenter.org/jdownloads/viewcategory/56-domestic-violence-101.html. For more information on how to support the re-authorization of VAWA, go to 4vawa.org.

Casey Gwinn is the President of the National Family Justice Center Alliance (www.familyjusticecenter.org). He has authored or co-authored six books and many articles on domestic violence and related abuse during his thirty year career as a prosecutor, social change advocate, and speaker on issues regarding violence against women and girls.


I can garauntee-f'ng-tee you that there were at least a half dozen psychophantic friends, relatives and acquaintences that new this douche bag had emotional problems, was violent and was a ticking time bomb----but 'cuz he was 'Rich & Famous'. didn't say a word or do a g-damn thing about it. Most probably because of their own selfishness and self-interest in seeing this 20-something old oney train to just keep on chugging along, tossing c-notes out the window to his followers.

Happens. All. The. Time........

#85 boomer

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:28 PM


I've always wondered what is the ratio keepers to psychos....and which regions or states has a larger percentage of keepers.


A psycho can become a keeper and vice-versa depending on the skill or neglect of her state's correctional system.

Basically, you need to love her parole officer too. That's important in finding the right woman. And if she won't introduce you to her former cellmates, that's sometimes not a good sign.


Without sidestepping the question Mike.

What would you speculate would be the ratio of wackos to almost normal thinking women is.... 2-3 out of a 100? and the same with men 5-7 out of a 100 ?....and out of that percentage of wackos, what percentage have a correlation with violence or criminality.

#86 soak_ed

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:39 PM


A view I share with the author...........

http://www.familyjus...c-violence.html
It Was a Clear Case of Domestic Violence





By Casey Gwinn, Esq.


As the news stories continue to flood my Yahoo and Google Alerts about the recent murder-suicide in Kansas City, three things trouble me about the stories. First, the name of Jovan Belcher comes up over and over in headlines and sub-headings but Kasandra Perkins’ life and background is rarely mentioned. Second, NFL experts and others are trying to focus on head trauma and concussive injuries as a likely cause instead of the domestic violence and the actions of an abusive man that form the true foundation of this tragedy. Third, this one murder-suicide is getting tremendous coverage when the many other women, men, and children dying each day in the United States from domestic violence do not merit any national media attention.

Remembering Kasandra Perkins
Jovan Belcher’s history as a Kansas City Chief linebacker, his college football career, and his family are all discussed with many column inches of text in the stories currently circulating. Missing from most stories is the life story of Kasandra Perkins, the young 22 year old mother that Jovan Belcher killed. Kasandra was not on television every week, she was not famous, and she was not a well-known personality in Kansas City. Her name has been often misspelled, but her story is not central in most media accounts to what happened last Saturday when she lost her life. Her friends called her Kasi.

Kasandra grew up in Austin, Texas and graduated from Anderson High School. We don’t know much else yet about her childhood but her cousin Whitney Charles convinced Kasandra to visit Kansas City after high school where she met Jovan Belcher in 2009 at a Christmas dinner for the Chiefs’ players and families. They started dating and two months later, Jovan convinced Kasandra to move to Kansas City. Kasandra loved living in Kansas City, Mexican food, pool parties, bonfires, and hanging out with her girlfriends. Kasandra was young and full of life and she loved being a mother.

She deserves to be remembered for her life and honored and esteemed in death. She deserves far more attention and far more honor and column inches than Jovan Belcher. She was the victim of a heinous crime by a man who claimed to love her and then he shot her many times. We don’t know how many times yet. She, not Jovan Belcher, deserves our honor, our sympathy, and our respect.

A Clear Case of Domestic Violence
Second, we must reject efforts to make this murder about head trauma or gun control. Bob Costas this week pushed for the gun control angle and many have pushed the NFL head trauma angle. But the truth is very clear. It was a clear case of domestic violence homicide and it was done by a man with a history of domestic violence. Indeed, the first news report has already surfaced from the University of Maine where Belcher put his fist through a window in a dispute with a woman – no charges were filed. And a second incident has surfaced during Belcher’s time at the University of Maine where Belcher and his girlfriend were arguing because she had not called him at the time she had promised. His rage led to a police response but no charges were filed. I have little doubt more will surface over time about the history of Jovan Belcher. It will likely have a link to his childhood and to other abusive behaviors with Kasandra Perkins before he killed her.

She died at the hands of man who was likely verbally and emotionally abusive to her. We know he was suicidal now. We know he was homicidal. We know he had access to firearms. We know he was jealous and possessive. Police and friends have already reported a history of arguments and disputes between them before the murder. His rage towards her motivated what he did to her. The killing was the ultimate act of power and control. It was not about head trauma and hopelessness.

Relationships do not go from healthy, happy, and functional to murder-suicide overnight. It never happens. There is almost always a history and there is always a pattern. Over time it will be clear that friends, family, and colleagues knew things and saw things and did not take action. The escalating conflict did not get addressed with the help of outside professionals. And the result? Jovan Belcher consciously chose to kill the mother of his daughter after years of little or no accountability for his rage and abuse. Only then, after becoming a domestic violence murderer, did he choose hopelessness and take his own life.

Many Others Are Also Dying
Finally, Jovan Belcher’s murderous acts and the stories about the tragedy ignore the reality that occurs every day across this country. Kasandra has not been the only woman to die in recent months in the United States of America. There have been hundreds killed since August. Most people did not pay attention and most Americans don’t even know. My friend Cathy Church keeps a website at: http://intimateviole...ws.blogspot.com. She tries to track as many news stories on domestic violence homicides that she can in the country. She has 421 entries since August 1st. But there are many more suspected murders and attempted murders that she is not able to catch. I see them often in more than ten Yahoo and Google alerts that notify me of “domestic violence homicides”, “woman murdered”, “wife killed”, “wife shot”, “girlfriend shot”, “girlfriend killed”, “wife strangled to death”, “girlfriend strangled to death”, “man kills woman”, and a variety of others.

In the last week, more than twenty women have been murdered in the United States in domestic violence homicides. In the holiday season now upon us, even more will die between now and the end of the year. They won’t make the national news and no one will eulogize them on national television. They might rate a local news story but it will fade in a day. The national media should focus on the bigger picture. Most women are killed by a man with a history of violence against women and there is often a failure by friends, family, and professionals to intervene and prevent the death. Today, we know, more than ever based on tremendous work being done by domestic violence professionals across the United States in shelters, Family Justice Centers, law enforcement agencies, community-based sexual assault and domestic violence agencies, and by others that domestic violence homicides are predictable and preventable. It is only a question of resources and priorities. When communities make family violence prevention a major focus area, when agencies work together collaboratively to help victims and their children, and when enough money is dedicated to early intervention and prevention, less women, men, and children die.

Thanks to the leadership of the Obama Administration, the Department of Justice’s Office on Violence Against Women, passionate federal, state, and local legislators, corporate support to stop violence against women and girls, and many dedicated advocates and survivors working across the country we are seeing progress in raising awareness about the impacts of family violence. But core to this effort is telling the truth when high profile tragedies like the killing of Kasandra Perkins’ occurs. Obfuscating, ignoring, refusing to acknowledge the truth and the work we still have ahead of us will not help. The current Republican refusal to pass the comprehensive version of the Violence Against Women Act that all of us in the field support does not help. Failing to shine the light on the problem except when there is an interesting national news tragedy will not help. We need far more and we must all demand far more from the media, our legislators, and the community. Kasandra Perkins' life deserves to be honored by what we do now with all that we know.

The National Domestic Violence Hotline is 1-800-799-SAFE (7232). For information on how to help a friend, go to www.familyjusticecenter.org/jdownloads/viewcategory/56-domestic-violence-101.html. For more information on how to support the re-authorization of VAWA, go to 4vawa.org.

Casey Gwinn is the President of the National Family Justice Center Alliance (www.familyjusticecenter.org). He has authored or co-authored six books and many articles on domestic violence and related abuse during his thirty year career as a prosecutor, social change advocate, and speaker on issues regarding violence against women and girls.


I can garauntee-f'ng-tee you that there were at least a half dozen psychophantic friends, relatives and acquaintences that new this douche bag had emotional problems, was violent and was a ticking time bomb----but 'cuz he was 'Rich & Famous'. didn't say a word or do a g-damn thing about it. Most probably because of their own selfishness and self-interest in seeing this 20-something old oney train to just keep on chugging along, tossing c-notes out the window to his followers.

Happens. All. The. Time........


True dat.

#87 soak_ed

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:55 PM


Yeah, Wofsey is full of shit as usual. When I married my second wife I knew I would be in for a hell of a ride. She had PTSD from an 18 year physically and emotionally abusive relationship. She had substance abuse problems. She had an eating disorder. In short she was all fucked up. In spite of all this I still married her (there were some compensations and I love a challenge). 10 years later when it all crashed and burned in a very ugly way, I walked away from the smoking wreckage, older, wiser and barely alive. I never once contemplated laying a hand on that woman at any time because you just don't do that. It was a hell of an experience, I had a lot of fun and a lot of stress but I would probably do it all again because I am that kind of guy. In a yin and yang kind of way I loved the fact that when we started our relationship she spent some time in a psych hospital and when it ended she had just been discharged from a psych hospital. The circle of dysfunctional life!

Bottom line, there is no justification for what the Chiefs player did, no woman drove him to it. You can't always control your emotions but you can control your behavior. Period.


Holy FUCK dude! I'd really like to know what kind of compensations there was for you to knowingly sign up for that shit. Especially as wife #2. Was she filthy rich, because I'm having a hard time thinking about what other compensations would be worth that.

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First wife was just plain boring. Shouldn't have married her though we produced a wonderful daughter together. Numero uno died at 46 of breast cancer, about 4 years after our divorce. So I got to raise the daughter through the formative years and we are very close. Wife number 2 was batshit crazy and I knew that when I married her but as I said I love a challenge. I had a fair amount of experience working in mental health so that gave me a little edge. One time she left me stranded on the beach on Mustang Island in Texas, no money, no wallet and worst of all no smokes! We stopped so I could take a piss, came out of the rest room and saw the tail lights of her Mustang disappearing. I finally got a hold of a friend to come and get me and take me back to San Antonio where I was living at the time. It wasn't to cool when it happened but it makes a great story now. As far as the compensation, no, she wasn't rich but she was fine looking and could suck start a B-52, all 8 engines at once. And that was one of her lesser talents. We actually had a few good years before the really bad shit happened. The night she came looking for me with a gun was another one that makes for a good story now.

Wife number three is definitely a keeper. Beautiful, intelligent, well educated and fun. She is a music conductor, choir director and principal of a music school. Very well respected in our little community here, we are on the A list. Most important, she isn't boring and she isn't crazy. If you are looking for the ideal woman, Poland is the place to look. With all of my wife's education and talent, she still apologizes to me if she doesn't have time to iron my shirts. All right, she can't cook worth a damn but I can so I am willing to overlook that one. Polish women are accustomed to Polish men who are often worthless. So they get all of the education they can, work hard but are trained by their mothers to be good wives and to take care of their man because that's what Polish women do. I'm not complaining at all and I know what I've got so I treat her well too, all of my wife's friends are jealous of her.

#88 mikewof

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:03 PM

Without sidestepping the question Mike.

What would you speculate would be the ratio of wackos to almost normal thinking women is.... 2-3 out of a 100? and the same with men 3-4 out of a 100 ?....and out of that percentage of wackos, what percentage have a correlation with violence or criminality.


I think the antidote to dangeous emotions is usually socialization. That's that nature of animals, when we're around other animals we tend to behave more like each other, and the norm is usually banal because banality is more likely to ensure species success than weirdness ... or at least, we associate the actions leading to species success with normality. You know, don't start yelling so that the lions hear us and attack. Keep your arm waving to a minimum so that the worlf packs don't see us, etc..

But at some point, being "crazy" may put you at risk, but it may also reward you with unseating the king ape, or scaring away your rivals, and suddenly you may have an edge in procreation. But once you have that edge, crazy then becomes your enemy, because it can put what you've obtained at risk.

So "crazy" is probably a very natural, normal temporary condition.

But males seem more likely to have the temporary, intense crazy than females because we have sperm rather than eggs. We benefit from taking risk and impregnating more eggs, and females benefit from keeping one mate.

However, all females if confronted with a real or perceived threat to their eggs or offspring will define crazy in a way that males can't imagine. With us, crazy is a risk with potential reward, there is a seed of logic to it. With females, crazy it's a biological imperative. There is no logic, there is only teeth, talons, claws, blood, and destruction.

Anyone who has spent anytime in the backwoods knows that a mother bear with cubs is usually a more genuine threat than a rogue male.

And then finally, there is the crazy from crossed neurological wires. Once the organism loses control of the evolved restraint, though a disease or by going rabid, then all of those claws and teeth and muscle no longer have the constraint of purpose, they just respond the way a loose firehose responds to obstructions as it flails around out of control. That kind of crazy doesn't need a reason, and I think it's more often the domain of males because we're considerably more disposable as a gender than females ... one replacement male can impregnate lots of females. Evolution had lots of reasons to safeguard crossed-wire crazy from females and very little incentive to safeguard males from crossed-wire crazy.

In fact, the fact that men willingly march off to fields to kill each other off may be one manifestation of the kind of crazy that makes a stronger species and is evolutionarily rewarded.

#89 boomer

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:31 PM

Thanks for clarifying that Mike....

#90 JBSF

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:58 AM

Without sidestepping the question Mike.

What would you speculate would be the ratio of wackos to almost normal thinking women is.... 2-3 out of a 100? and the same with men 5-7 out of a 100 ?....and out of that percentage of wackos, what percentage have a correlation with violence or criminality.


OBJECTION, calls for speculation! My client is not qualified to answer those questions as that is out of his field of expertise..... :P

#91 grabbler

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:28 PM


Without sidestepping the question Mike.

What would you speculate would be the ratio of wackos to almost normal thinking women is.... 2-3 out of a 100? and the same with men 5-7 out of a 100 ?....and out of that percentage of wackos, what percentage have a correlation with violence or criminality.


OBJECTION, calls for speculation! My client is not qualified to answer those questions as that is out of his field of expertise..... :P/>


Your honor, the defense is willing to stipulate that Mike is an accredited expert in everything...

#92 R Booth

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:32 PM



Without sidestepping the question Mike.

What would you speculate would be the ratio of wackos to almost normal thinking women is.... 2-3 out of a 100? and the same with men 5-7 out of a 100 ?....and out of that percentage of wackos, what percentage have a correlation with violence or criminality.


OBJECTION, calls for speculation! My client is not qualified to answer those questions as that is out of his field of expertise..... :P/>


Your honor, the defense is willing to stipulate that Mike is an accredited expert in everything...


Objection! Pure heresay! Has the defense ever SEEN one of his solar water distillers!?....

#93 boomer

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:34 PM

Your honor, the defense is willing to stipulate that Mike is an accredited expert in everything...


I'd say he's been around the block and then some, and seen a lot more then many.

#94 GRUMPY

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:47 PM

He may well have been at the last supper. :unsure:

#95 Point Break

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:52 PM



I've always wondered what is the ratio keepers to psychos....and which regions or states has a larger percentage of keepers.


A psycho can become a keeper and vice-versa depending on the skill or neglect of her state's correctional system.

Basically, you need to love her parole officer too. That's important in finding the right woman. And if she won't introduce you to her former cellmates, that's sometimes not a good sign.


Without sidestepping the question Mike.

What would you speculate would be the ratio of wackos to almost normal thinking women is.... 2-3 out of a 100? and the same with men 5-7 out of a 100 ?....and out of that percentage of wackos, what percentage have a correlation with violence or criminality.

Oh dude you're gonna be sorry for that question..........seriously.

#96 boomer

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:57 PM

Oh dude you're gonna be sorry for that question..........seriously.


:rolleyes:




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