57 replies to this topic

[Gatekeeper]

Simple project...design laminated wood davits to fit my buddies Douglas 31. The design goals are as follows

- removable and storable
- easy to rig
- dink doesn't block ladder access when on davits
- look in keeping with traditional design of boat
- wood laminate construction...steam bent and epoxied

The dink is a Walker Bay as shown It is 7-11" x 5-0" x 66 lbs...no motor.

Attached Files

•  Odyssey AF.JPG   28.65K   20 downloads
•  IMG_0461.jpg   95.48K   29 downloads

[Bob Perry]

I can't imagine davits of any type looking good on that pretty little hull.
31' LOA is too small for davits on a sailboat.

[Beau.Vrolyk]

Gate,

Tell your friend to put the dink on the foredeck, like everyone else does with a boat that size. Davits will just make a pretty boat UGLY!!!

IMHO.

BV

[Ishmael]

I can imagine a set of davits that would look pretty good, not interfere with the ladder, and could be home built.
Only issue is that they would have to go on the side of the boat and not on the stern.
Your friend OK with that, Gate?

[Gatekeeper]

Ish...yes.

He would prefer them mounted to the deck or aft pulpit, or a combination of both.

Bob

It's the exercise here that is important. Paul will decide if he wants to follow through once he sees what we come up with. Another point if it matters, he sails/cruises solo 90% of the time.

He wants davits unless they simply won't work comfortably or they look awful. I find it hard to believe WLYDO can't solve this. I've never known us to throw in the towel.



Carry on.

[b6sfull]

perhaps WLYDO can find this friend of yours a first mate.........then buy bigger boat.......ah ha.....then the design work begins......

this worked for Jackdaw and myself........ with great success too.......


Matchmaking........a new division of WLYDO who da thought?

[floating dutchman]

Store the dink on the cabin top with the forward section deflated, Takes less than a minet the inflate one stection and keeps the fordeck clear for kite work and anchoring.
Tell your friend he's lucky to have a dink with three inflating sections, I've been looking a geting a bigger dink (shoulda used birth control) but most in my price range only have two sections and that would kill the whole under the boom easy storage.

[Gatekeeper]

I think he is seeing something like Bob did for ND...they seem to flow out of the rail. Very nice.

[Rasputin22]

Right,

That was for a boat twice the length! Things like this don't scale...

[Paps]

Gate sadly I agree with the above comments we are a group of dreamers with attitude not magicians. Given the width of that transom and the curve of the deckline the davits would have to touch in the middle to look anything near right.

I suggest a well designed 3 point lifting strop and a properly sized jumper strut.

[Gatekeeper]

Rasp

I know that...so let's find a solution.

Paps

Ok, what will work?

I don't want to tell him that the project beat us in less than 10 posts.

[Ishmael]

Ok, instead of a pair of davits, how about one davit with a central hoist and lines running to the quarters to stabilize the dink?

[Paps]

The only other thing that might work could be a curved pair of davits hinged at deck level with a spreader bar between the outboard ends. Lower davits to dink,attach topping lift to the middle of the bar and hoist.

Removable pins at deck level to easily remove davit's. Just need to work out a fixing system in the "up" position to free up the topping lift.

I would be recommending SS though rather than Wood.

[Gatekeeper]

Ish

That would block the ladder would it not?

[Ishmael]

Ish

That would block the ladder would it not?

So put a midship ladder on, it's a far better platform for boarding/unboarding, especially in a chop.

[Paps]

Ish

That would block the ladder would it not?

So put a midship ladder on, it's a far better platform for boarding/unboarding, especially in a chop.

Exactly. No way you could get on via the stern with a dink there in any arrangement.

[floating dutchman]

Ish

That would block the ladder would it not?

So put a midship ladder on, it's a far better platform for boarding/unboarding, especially in a chop.

I never use the ladder on the stern for getting out of the dink, I clamber up the side of the boat, Low freeboard mind.

Gate how about a side on pick?

[Tom Ray]

I don't want to tell him that the project beat us in less than 10 posts.

I'm a big fan of crap on the back, but that boat has no ass. Tell him the project beat me at post 1.

[Beau.Vrolyk]

Gate,

Didn't someone around here store their inflatable vertically sitting on the swim step? This guy could do something like that. Attache a block about 10' up the backstay and just haul the bow up to it. Tie the stern of the dink to the stern pulpit and he's made-in-the-shade. He'd pick up some extra sail area going down wind too - upwind, not so good.

I really do think that hoisting the thing onto the foredeck or under the boom (if there's no vang in the way) is the best idea. The difficulty with stern davits is that I'm guessing that transom is only about 3.5 to 4 feet wide. That means that about 2 to 2.5 feet of dingy will be sticking out on either side. The davits might look just fine, but you'd never see 'em when the dink was hoisted out with 'em. You'd just see this gigantic gray blob stuck to the back of the boat. Also, I'm not sure how high you'd have to get that dink to keep it from being hit by waves. As the owner of a boat with a long overhanging transom I can attest to how the waves come all the way up to, and sometimes over, the top of the transom.

BV

[Tom Ray]

The dink is a Walker Bay as shown It is 7-11" x 5-0" x 66 lbs...no motor.

Why would anyone have such a boat without a motor? Not for the joy of rowing it, so it has to be something else.

I think he has the wrong dink. A nester, foldable kayak, inflatable kayak, or maybe even this cardboard thing would be better and make several problems go away, mostly the desire for davits.

[olaf hart]

Ahh....

Why do you have an inflatable, and not deflate it for storage?

He needs a really good 12v air pump.

[Ishmael]

Tom' s got it right. Davit lust has led many astray. I think this guy should HTFU and abandon the concept of davits for that nice boat. Even if you did manage to fab something together that holds a bulbous bloat far enough off the stern to avoid the ladder, you have 66+ lbs of boat hanging six feet off a skinny butt. It will look fugly and really add to the pitching moment, especially if it scoops up a wave.

Olaf, the Walker Bay inflatable is a hard shell with tubes, so it's a bundle even deflated and you're still heaving it on and off the boat. The best IMHO may be to use one of those rigs that let you hoist the dinghy backwards up the backstay and drag it with just the bow in the water.

[Soñadora]

This brings up the question: what are davits for? I don't think davits on small vessels should be for any sort of storage on passage. In fact, I would think they would be used more for securing the dink out of the water when at anchor for a somewhat extended period. For that application, I like Ish's idea. Use removable davits and hoist the dink off the side. Or removable davits off the stern. Will require some significant backing, but there are a handful of mfrs who make removable davits. I've been kicking this idea around for Soñadora. I just don't know how much fucking around it would be. Most likely never going to happen, but it's something I've thought about.

[floating dutchman]

http://www.edithmayb...00/100_2939.JPG

Stolen from the sprit rig thread.

[Veeger]

Tow da dam ting! (and make it a pretty nice tender a la a Nutshell or Shellback dinghy)

[bljones]

Laminated? Yep
Removable? Yep
Doesn't block access to ladder? Yep
Attractive? Not so much. Maybe.


The challenge is to laminate a curve that allows a 4.5' beam dinghy to be clear of the swim ladder and clear of the water.

[WHL]

Putting davits on that sweet design is a travesty. As others have said... either deflate the dink and get a decent pump, or change it for a nester, or get a dink that suits the character of the boat.
Has WLYDO ever done anything ugly before ?? We should pass on this "challenge".

[Gatekeeper]

WHL

Forget the reality, embrace the challenge.

It's not about what is "normal" it's about "what the client wants" (RHP)...so dig down and find a good solution to an ugly problem...anyone can design a Hunter.

[Ishmael]

I'm sure Bob sends some clients away, Gate.

I walk past a Douglas 31 every time I go to our slip. Today, I stopped and looked at the stern. No way.



 tara.JPG   106.68K   28 downloads

[Gatekeeper]

That's true...but not without a fight!!''

[dolphinmaster]

There's a cantilivered rig with a pilot's pod hangin off the bow of one them ugly stick boats in another thread.

Easy conversion to the stern and less weight. It'll handle the loads much better than acting in it's present form as a pilot station.

Hang that off the stern and it'll add a certain ephemeral esprit de corps feel to her

[Tom Ray]

I'm sure Bob sends some clients away, Gate.

I walk past a Douglas 31 every time I go to our slip. Today, I stopped and looked at the stern. No way.



 tara.JPG   106.68K   28 downloads

There you go! He needs to ditch the dink and paddle an orange ring. It will probably paddle better.

[WHL]

WHL

Forget the reality, embrace the challenge.

It's not about what is "normal" it's about "what the client wants" (RHP)...so dig down and find a good solution to an ugly problem...anyone can design a Hunter.

Challenge? Do you think that quoting RHP will change the fact that this is ugly and somewhat ridiculous on the stern of that Douglas? He'll tell you too, that the client isn't always right. Whatever your profession, there are times when you need to politely decline a commission, unless of course you're hooking.

[bljones]

but, sometimes, you gotta do what you gotta do. if davits are the only realistic option, the it behooves us to come up with the most elegant damn transom blights we can. Come on, gentlemen, how do we turn a boil into a beauty mark?

[Cavelamb]

Right,

That was for a boat twice the length! Things like this don't scale...

Sure they do!

The dink scales down to 4 feet and looks great hanging off the stern.

[WHL]

but, sometimes, you gotta do what you gotta do. if davits are the only realistic option, the it behooves us to come up with the most elegant damn transom blights we can. Come on, gentlemen, how do we turn a boil into a beauty mark?

Uh No. WLYDO doesn't HAVE to do an ugly freebie for a concept that isn't the only option. This is a bad case of COTB whichever way you cut it. What's the point of making a sow's ear out of a silk purse? Do you think the designer of this boat wanted to have his creativity butchered with davits? Do you think he designed the hull to sail on its lines with the weight of davits and dink hung back there? Come on guys.... this is mental masturbation.

There are other options e.g. a smaller nesting dink and there are numerous methods of hoisting one aboard. This Douglas is already equiped to do that.

Designing a nesting dink with an inflatable collar (so it has some benefits of a RIB) that can be stowed on deck might be a worthy challenge of generic value ... not davits.

[Paps]

Geeze WHL, they reccon I can be blunt but I wholly agree. Just because someone asks you to do something stupid doesn't mean you have to take up the challenge.

[Gatekeeper]

OK...I guess it's in my hands now. Who knew people could get so emotional about davits?

I'm sure glad I didn't ask what is the best anchor to stow on a set of davits!!

[Boomberries]

OK...I guess it's in my hands now. Who knew people could get so emotional about davits?

I'm sure glad I didn't ask what is the best anchor to stow on a set of davits!!

I do not see anyone getting emotional here at all, gate, about davits or anything else. Perhaps you misread their responses or rationales, which are actually reasonable and well explained. Try to not take it so personally.

There is a general consensus among most everyone who has posted, saying other options are much better suited for this particular boat.

[Gatekeeper]

Boom

Note the ....I'm not in the least upset.

The only reason I mentioned anchors was they to create some of the funniest threads.

I'm going to proceed because that's what my friend wants, and I did learn a lot here that I will bring to his attention.

[bljones]

Uh No. WLYDO doesn't HAVE to do an ugly freebie for a concept that isn't the only option. This is a bad case of COTB whichever way you cut it. What's the point of making a sow's ear out of a silk purse? Do you think the designer of this boat wanted to have his creativity butchered with davits? Do you think he designed the hull to sail on its lines with the weight of davits and dink hung back there? Come on guys.... this is mental masturbation.

There are other options e.g. a smaller nesting dink and there are numerous methods of hoisting one aboard. This Douglas is already equiped to do that.

Designing a nesting dink with an inflatable collar (so it has some benefits of a RIB) that can be stowed on deck might be a worthy challenge of generic value ... not davits.

Right, then. My first response, having seen a couple of Douglas 31s in the area is "where the hell are you gonna store a dinghy on deck?" Above the house kills visibility, aft of the cockpit, space is limited. But, WHL's response prompted me to take another look at the deck.
I'm wondering if a nesting dink could be nestled upside down, just ahead of the house?

[mrgnstrn]

not what you asked for...but another alternative:

Somebody makes these "davits" that help tow it astern.
Can't remember the trade name.
but...here are the pertinent details:
First, you end up towing the dinghy backwards.
it is two struts that attached between the transom of the dink and the stern of the boat.
then it has a few lines to pull the transom of the dink out of the water.
thus, the dink ends up getting towed nose down backwards.
the struts have a large walking flat built into the top, so you walk from the deck of the vessel onto the plank, and into your dink.
the struts are long enough that the engine can remain on teh dink.

fuck if can remember teh company's name.....if I find it I'll post it.

this whole system only requires two beefy brackets on the stern of the vessel, and a pair of matching brackets on the dink.
all components are removeable.

-M

[Joli]

Roll it up and stow it in a lazerette, sorry no other options are shippy.

http://www.zodiacmar...s/cadet-roll-up

[Ishmael]

not what you asked for...but another alternative:

Somebody makes these "davits" that help tow it astern.
Can't remember the trade name.
but...here are the pertinent details:
First, you end up towing the dinghy backwards.
it is two struts that attached between the transom of the dink and the stern of the boat.
then it has a few lines to pull the transom of the dink out of the water.
thus, the dink ends up getting towed nose down backwards.
the struts have a large walking flat built into the top, so you walk from the deck of the vessel onto the plank, and into your dink.
the struts are long enough that the engine can remain on teh dink.

fuck if can remember teh company's name.....if I find it I'll post it.

this whole system only requires two beefy brackets on the stern of the vessel, and a pair of matching brackets on the dink.
all components are removeable.

-M

That's the system I was thinking of when I talked about hoisting it backwards up the backstay. Thanks for making that concept coherent.

[chester]

not what you asked for...but another alternative:

Somebody makes these "davits" that help tow it astern.
Can't remember the trade name.
but...here are the pertinent details:
First, you end up towing the dinghy backwards.
it is two struts that attached between the transom of the dink and the stern of the boat.
then it has a few lines to pull the transom of the dink out of the water.
thus, the dink ends up getting towed nose down backwards.
the struts have a large walking flat built into the top, so you walk from the deck of the vessel onto the plank, and into your dink.
the struts are long enough that the engine can remain on teh dink.

fuck if can remember teh company's name.....if I find it I'll post it.

this whole system only requires two beefy brackets on the stern of the vessel, and a pair of matching brackets on the dink.
all components are removeable.

-M

This?

[chester]

Oh and apparently RVers call the run around vehicles they tow DINGHYs

[Ishmael]

Oh and apparently RVers call the run around vehicles they tow DINGHYs

You don't see them jonesing for a set of davits, do you?

[Gatekeeper]

Before anyone else post watch this...

[bugger]

I am not really part of WLYDO and have no business commenting, but first let me please say how much I enjoy reading all this and how much I learn.

However, I am an engineer, so I have some ideas about what goes on in engineering design and development.

I suspect the root cause of some of the controversy here is that the design project started from the wrong basis. The project started with the solution: davits. I think it should have started with the question: given boat design A and dinghy design B, what is the 'best' (best is to be defined) way for boat A to haul around dinghy B? Davits are but one solution. I think that with the right question, the 'best' solution can be found.

[Bob Perry]

That's a great musical arrangement of that tune. I have never heard that version before. The vid is hilarious.

[Bob Perry]

"pretty"?
"pretty"?

It's going to look like a baboon's butt.

[Tom Ray]

I am not really part of WLYDO and have no business commenting, but first let me please say how much I enjoy reading all this and how much I learn.

However, I am an engineer, so I have some ideas about what goes on in engineering design and development.

I suspect the root cause of some of the controversy here is that the design project started from the wrong basis. The project started with the solution: davits. I think it should have started with the question: given boat design A and dinghy design B, what is the 'best' (best is to be defined) way for boat A to haul around dinghy B? Davits are but one solution. I think that with the right question, the 'best' solution can be found.

I thought my question about Dink B was a pretty good one:

Why would anyone have such a boat without a motor?

Expanding on it, if the desire for such a dink is based on the performance under power, I get it. I can't think of another reason to have a dinghy with that design, and if the desire is specifically to avoid an engine, lots of alternatives open up that would not be available if the dink is to be powered.

[Gatekeeper]

The motor is a small 2 stroke that is removed when not in use...

[chester]

Oh and apparently RVers call the run around vehicles they tow DINGHYs

You don't see them jonesing for a set of davits, do you?

[Tom Ray]

The motor is a small 2 stroke that is removed when not in use...

That's a different requirement, then.

How small? The gist of the question is: does it need to plane? If no: get a roll up dinghy. If yes, we might have a problem that needs solving.

[mrgnstrn]

not what you asked for...but another alternative:

Somebody makes these "davits" that help tow it astern.
Can't remember the trade name.
but...here are the pertinent details:
First, you end up towing the dinghy backwards.
it is two struts that attached between the transom of the dink and the stern of the boat.
then it has a few lines to pull the transom of the dink out of the water.
thus, the dink ends up getting towed nose down backwards.
the struts have a large walking flat built into the top, so you walk from the deck of the vessel onto the plank, and into your dink.
the struts are long enough that the engine can remain on teh dink.

fuck if can remember teh company's name.....if I find it I'll post it.

this whole system only requires two beefy brackets on the stern of the vessel, and a pair of matching brackets on the dink.
all components are removeable.

-M

This?

uh, YEAH! that's it.

Dinghy tow...now why didn't I try to google that....too simple I guess.

-M

[bljones]

Speaking of Dinghy-tow, gate, check the last paragraph of this ad:

http://ontario.kijij...QAdIdZ426519122
Problem solved.

I will take my local consulting and research fee in rum. Goslings or Sailor Jerry. 40 pounder.

Thanks.

[Ishmael]

I'm sure we can come up with something elegant for less than $750, especially since Gate has volunteered to build it.