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goodbye, cruel world


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#1 jimma

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:35 AM

My wife and I sailed home last year after some 13 years abroad, not all of it sailing, though much of it interesting.

We were shocked by real estate prices. There's not much sailing in Detroit or Dayton, so I came up with the idea of living aboard.

Our little boat is too small for my wife's work clothes, so a bigger bucket is in order.

Now my wife has fallen in love with a boat with a pilot house... a pilot house.

I loved her and trusted her. And she does this to me...

#2 hard aground

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:03 AM

Any pics of her newbie?

#3 Weyalan

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:14 AM

Any pics of her newbie?

It isn't her newbie that we want pics of, is it?

#4 Ishmael

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:30 AM

No, we want pictures of the boat.



































































And her tits.

#5 jimma

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:40 AM

Any pics of her newbie?


The designer is reputable and much that he designs admirable. It's not about causing him insult.

Not sailing pilothouse boats is like not eating puppies. It's principle, even if they do sometimes taste good.

#6 hobot

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:16 AM

Is the houses door offset?

#7 floating dutchman

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:43 AM

I'm going to wait for Black to see this thread before making a comment, except.....

Honestly, she want's a pilothouse. So fucken what. I got a boat that sails like a figgen caravan. Because it is the family caravan. It was the only way the war office was going to allow the purchase of said boat. I love my little 4nkt shit box, Fuck it I even do my best to beer can the fucken thing.

Pic a vid that suits you best:





Oh and house prices at the moment? Not many parts of the world that they are "over priced" at the moment.

#8 Tom Ray

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:44 AM

I once had a boat that my wife did not like.

That boat went to Sweden. I hope the new owner is enjoying it.

#9 boomer

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 12:01 PM

Is the houses door offset?


I like offset companionways....but not in pilot house sailboats.....

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#10 Soņadora

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:51 PM

yeah, pilothouses with offset companionways suck ass

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He said, sarcastically. You guys getting tired of me posting Baba 40 Pilothouses yet? ;)

And in case you guys think I'm some sort of Bob Perry groupie, that's not how I see it. He just happens to be the guy lucky enough to have designed such beautiful boats. ;)

Besides that, I hear he's a great guy.

#11 TheFlash

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:29 PM

Who's starting the best looking pilothouse thread - or is this it?

If I ever own a cruising mono, due to wife and family, it will be a pilothouse design. The wife can get sick at anchor without seeing the horizon….

#12 Slim

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:42 PM

yeah, pilothouses with offset companionways suck ass

Deathtrap I tell ya! Deathtrap!

#13 kdh

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:53 PM

The designer is reputable and much that he designs admirable. It's not about causing him insult.


Another high falutin' language type? Or someone from our past...

#14 Bob Perry

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:10 PM

No offense intended?

#15 jimma

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:26 PM

Another high falutin' language type? Or someone from our past...


Strictly a low faluter, promise.

#16 jimma

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:38 PM

No offense intended?


Of course, some fine designers turn out pilothouses under duress.

Whenever I see a lovely design, and a few come readily to mind, that has had a PH unpoetically attached, I think: "That poor creative soul, his kids must have been starving."

#17 Dog

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:45 PM

For a live aboard...I'm with the wife on this one.

#18 A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:32 PM


Another high falutin' language type? Or someone from our past...


Strictly a low faluter, promise.


Don't you owe us tits? :-)

#19 Tucky

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:05 PM

He is doing his best to ignore the request, not even a hint of repartee, dramatic irony or my favorite, litotes. You might say "they weren't small" with a picture to prove it.

#20 TheFlash

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:08 PM

I really liked this pilothouse - maybe a bit non-traditional:

Posted Image

#21 A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:20 PM

I really liked this pilothouse - maybe a bit non-traditional:

Posted Image


What is that? I like it!

#22 TheFlash

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:51 PM

Can you believe a 30 year old Simpson Liahona design? Was on the market last year, I almost bit on it, but realized I can't do the boat justice.

http://www.surfersjo...property/tevake

There is one for sale on the east coast - sans pilothouse

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1987/Custom-Simpson-Liahona-trimaran-2139620/Yarmouth/ME/United-States

#23 Thorvald

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:01 PM


I really liked this pilothouse - maybe a bit non-traditional:

Posted Image


What is that? I like it!

The PH looks good on that for some strange reason.

#24 Ishmael

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:01 PM

Ah, sturdy nipples.

Let's take a poll on that, as soon as we have some pictures.

#25 Great Red Shark

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:10 PM

Hey, if it's a LIVE-ABOARD, get over yourself and be happy you aren't having the " Trawler Conversation " - you can always get/build a nice small sailing skiff...'cause you KNOW you aren't going to sail the house as much.

Anyone that knocks a PH boat hasn't sat in a freezing rain enough.

#26 SemiSalt

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:10 PM

If I ready the OP correctly, the wife has set her eyes on a particular boat that happens to have a pilothouse, not just making a PH a requirement.

If so, that's a problem. I had been hoping that maybe a boat with a deck saloon (i.e. raised living area) might be a compromise.

Attached File  2012-12-06_1407.png   230.61K   11 downloads

#27 TheFlash

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:17 PM

Hey, if it's a LIVE-ABOARD, get over yourself and be happy you aren't having the " Trawler Conversation " - you can always get/build a nice small sailing skiff...'cause you KNOW you aren't going to sail the house as much.

Anyone that knocks a PH boat hasn't sat in a freezing rain enough.


Or sailed upwind on SF Bay on a fast boat during a strong ebb

#28 jimma

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:19 PM

:unsure: Looks like a real hardship to own that pilot house boat. What with all that glass to clean so you can see what goes on around the marina. The seating area in a open air setting. Why some one might look in at you. I'll borrow this one and evaluate it for SA. To get a proper feel for it I'll need it for 2 years. Preferably the PNW.


Perhaps I'm overly optimistic, but I think I have her convinced that it would not take much of a wave to wipe the top bits away.

"Remember, dear, that storm off Sarawak? This, this and this would all be gone... No, no, don't worry. Enjoy the view. We'll bring extra bailing cans."

#29 Jose Carumba

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:48 PM


:unsure: Looks like a real hardship to own that pilot house boat. What with all that glass to clean so you can see what goes on around the marina. The seating area in a open air setting. Why some one might look in at you. I'll borrow this one and evaluate it for SA. To get a proper feel for it I'll need it for 2 years. Preferably the PNW.


Perhaps I'm overly optimistic, but I think I have her convinced that it would not take much of a wave to wipe the top bits away.

"Remember, dear, that storm off Sarawak? This, this and this would all be gone... No, no, don't worry. Enjoy the view. We'll bring extra bailing cans."


Depends on the boat. A reasonably low, properly designed, and engineered, pilothouse (like the baba 40) with storm covers properly fixed in place should be able to withstand a pretty nasty storm.

#30 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:01 PM

I'm rather fond of these treatment of the Pilot House(s) in this nice cruising sloop - a circumnavigator I'm told. I know, it's a rather slow and plodding sort of a boat. But at least the crew has someplace nice to sit while plodding around the globe.

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#31 Silverbullet

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:07 PM


:unsure: Looks like a real hardship to own that pilot house boat. What with all that glass to clean so you can see what goes on around the marina. The seating area in a open air setting. Why some one might look in at you. I'll borrow this one and evaluate it for SA. To get a proper feel for it I'll need it for 2 years. Preferably the PNW.


Perhaps I'm overly optimistic, but I think I have her convinced that it would not take much of a wave to wipe the top bits away.


It's a liveaboard - what kind of waves are you expecting on Lk. Union?

#32 Tom Ray

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:28 PM



I really liked this pilothouse - maybe a bit non-traditional:

Posted Image


What is that? I like it!

The PH looks good on that for some strange reason.


It looks too tall to me, but it also looks about like I would like it. I care more whether I bump my head than I do whether those watching are enjoying the view.

#33 jimma

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:49 PM



:unsure: Looks like a real hardship to own that pilot house boat. What with all that glass to clean so you can see what goes on around the marina. The seating area in a open air setting. Why some one might look in at you. I'll borrow this one and evaluate it for SA. To get a proper feel for it I'll need it for 2 years. Preferably the PNW.


Perhaps I'm overly optimistic, but I think I have her convinced that it would not take much of a wave to wipe the top bits away.

"Remember, dear, that storm off Sarawak? This, this and this would all be gone... No, no, don't worry. Enjoy the view. We'll bring extra bailing cans."


Depends on the boat. A reasonably low, properly designed, and engineered, pilothouse (like the baba 40) with storm covers properly fixed in place should be able to withstand a pretty nasty storm.


True enough. But I am grasping at straws...

#34 blackjenner

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:37 PM

Oh, I'm just going to stand here and watch this a bit. I might comment when we get back from Vegas to celebrate Kerry's birthday.

Suffice as to say that I don't care what other people think of my boat.

We like her very very much, thank you.

#35 JBE

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:04 AM

I look at that tri and think , that ain't no pilot house, its a hard dodger.
my definition ( right or wrong) if it gets wiped out by wave or whatever, is there still a companionway/ washboards / cabin to make the boat safe?

I think I see that.

A photo of a pretty good looking hard dodger...

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#36 Elegua

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:52 AM

Deck prisms. The anti-pilothouse.

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That way you can live in your IOR cave without turning on the lights.

#37 Jose Carumba

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:58 AM

Oh, I'm just going to stand here and watch this a bit. I might comment when we get back from Vegas to celebrate Kerry's birthday.

Suffice as to say that I don't care what other people think of my boat.

We like her very very much, thank you.


Wait, first the lottery and now Vegas?

#38 Bent Sailor

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:46 AM

Oh and house prices at the moment? Not many parts of the world that they are "over priced" at the moment.


As an Aussie, and well versed in the HTFU sentiment expressed by Chopper Reid, I can honestly say our houses are overpriced... but the boat prices are coming down, so it almost balances out.

My wife & I are kind of partial to a few pilothouse boats, though admittedly aiot of them suck ass. I quite liked the pilothouse version of the WLYDO CA36 that got drawn up... but ironically couldn't get the missus to see the beauty in that one.

#39 Alpha FB

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:10 PM

Some time ago I spent 4 months of 'summer' on the Scottish west coast living on my folkboat. Pilot houses sure did look attractive then...

#40 Tom Ray

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:08 PM

This was a pretty good shot at putting a pilothouse on a 30 foot boat, so it proved to me that it should not be done.

Rawson 30

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#41 jimma

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 05:53 PM

Some time ago I spent 4 months of 'summer' on the Scottish west coast living on my folkboat. Pilot houses sure did look attractive then...


And that's it, isn't it? Pilothouses are about climate. They are not suitable for world cruising, at least not world cruising that might include tropical locales.

Our boat has no salon table. It was originally launched and lived most of its life in the tropics. Someone took the table out and it was never returned because you could not eat down below. The first eight years we owned the boat we were in the tropics and we never ate a single meal below. Not one. You slept naked with a fan blowing down on you for almost the whole night... I won't get into discussing insulation. Many nights we slept in the cockpit. The moment we sailed into northern waters, I'm disconnecting fans, installing heaters and looking around for a table or plans for one.

Pilothouses are great for the Salish Sea, but not if you hope to sail the boat somewhere.

Maybe that's why they don't appeal to me. It's what they represent.

Teak decks are one of the few things on a boat that have no purpose, no use. They are 100% cosmetics. An aesthetic touch. I have a teak deck. They are ugly to me, because of the headaches they represent, and their uselessness. I know I once thought they were beautiful.

#42 jimma

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:07 PM

In the video... Walter Schulz prefers the term wheelhouse. Pilothouse sounds to him like a place an American Airlines captain would live.

http://www.shannonya...sailpilot1.html

#43 TheFlash

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:07 PM

They are ugly to me, because of the headaches they represent, and their uselessness. I know I once thought they were beautiful.



Sounds like an apt description of the ex-wife.

#44 Dr. Electron

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:32 PM

I understand where jimma is coming from. in my own, limited experience after living aboard for seven years in the PNW (not all that easy to tell the truth), I found that teak decks were overrated. I love them, and my wife lovingly cared for them well, but I also know less-fortunate Hallberg Rassy owners faced with $20k decisions on how to replace them. I remember thinking ... never again. of course, I loved them in the Summer barefoot .. warm, and looking very salty, but we were never oblivious to maintenance issues. I also remember my wife, a much more objective sailor than I, saying that if we could do it again we would have a pilothouse as long as we were actively sailing as we were and living in the PNW in the Winter.

having said that ... we were sailing from our home port of San Juan Island, down the coast of Washington to our daughters wedding in Portland, and later, off the coast of Oregon heading south we ran into some weather and wave action that easily reached the top of our mizzen on our Hallberg-Rassy 42. coming into the Columbia Bar at Astoria, we sheared off our boom-vang fittings on the mast, and I remember thinking that the waves behind us could easily spoil our day. still, a well-constructed pilothouse would have survived I think .. and is a good compromise. I also remember thinking at some point along our adventure, that having the Hallberg-Rassy hard-dodger would have been a very, very good idea.

cruising is an amalgam of compromise ...

daniel

#45 Jim in Halifax

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:33 PM

Teak decks are one of the few things on a boat that have no purpose, no use. They are 100% cosmetics. An aesthetic touch. I have a teak deck. They are ugly to me, because of the headaches they represent, and their uselessness. I know I once thought they were beautiful.

Although teak decks are a PITA for maintenance, I believe they are still one of the safest non-skid surfaces you can put on a boat. I wish my boat had them, both for the beauty and utility aspects

#46 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:05 PM

OK, well there are some pretty odd things here in this thread, Jimma:

First, teak decks are absolutely the best surface at sea. There isn't any non-skid that comes close without ripping the souls off your feet. Yet, you're saying you don't want a Pilot House because it won't be good at sea. You need to decide what the boat will be used for before deciding what features it does or doesn't have. If you're going to sea in weather that's so rough that a pilot house won't survive, why have whale-snot-slippery glass decks?

Second, the unsupported assumption that a pilot house is un-seaworth or even dangerous in foul weather is just plain wrong. Yes, if you put 2mm window glass in the sides and front of a pilot house then it will be dangerous. But, to be blunt, if you build ANY part of a boat badly it will be dangerous. If, however, you chose a well designed and built boat with a pilot house in which proper engineering has been done, then the windows will outlast the crew's ability to keep sailing by a long long way. If you buy a boat that is a piece of junk, the windows in the pilot house will only be part of your problem. Imagine what the rest of the boat is like. If you buy a decent design, like the Baba 40, the entire boat will be just fine.

Finally, I seriously doubt that there are any boats that would be "perfect" for sailing in the tropics where it is so hot that you can't eat below and sleep with a fan running constantly, and then can be "perfect" for sailing the inland passage up to Alaska from Seattle. We now own a boat built in England and when we got her the ONLY ventilation was a 3" diameter mushroom vent on the extreme aft end of the deck. The hatches can't be opened underway at sea, because you'll ship water down them. Is this the right boat for a run to Fiji - clearly not. Is it perfect for beating up the coast of N. Calif-Oreagon-Washington - I think it is. (Despite it not having a pilot hose or any form of spray dodger) If you're going to live aboard a boat in a place like Seattle - you need a PNW style boat. Heater, big enclosed spaces (doesn't have to be a fixed pilot house as it doesn't get that cold), big motor to make up for little wind, and you don't need big opening hatches. But, that boat will not be the boat you want to live on in the tropics. I guess the message is you need to make up your mind about what you're really going to use the boat for, and choose accordingly.

You're amazingly lucky to have a wife who's willing to live aboard at all.

Personally - I hate pilot houses and dodgers. As a result, I've resigned myself to getting very very wet at times. Rather than build a box on the deck of my boat I just bought much better foul weather gear. :rolleyes:

BV

#47 jimma

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:00 PM

Beau, contrary to impressions left above I think I agree with most everything in your post, with the possible exception of teak. It is a good surface, and it feels good, but others I think are as secure without the grief.

The unsupported assumption that a pilot house is un-seaworthy or even dangerous in foul weather is just plain wrong.


I do not make that assumption, but I realize that it might appear that I did. I did say that I had told my lovely wife that a wave would wipe away everything on deck, but I was joking. The unsuitability of a pilothouse, in the tropics, has I believe more to do with climate and ventilation than anything else. I have been in certain deckhouses in the tropics that feel like ovens. Air conditioning is not a practical option for most cruisers.

In airing prejudices and having fun, I am aware that there are designers here, legends and hopefuls, who know far more than I do about what works and what doesn't. I reserve my right to be annoying.

Oh, and yes, I am very lucky.

#48 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 12:20 PM

OK, understand. BTW, in the tropics the MOST important item in my experience is a really large sunshade. I eventually made one that extended 5' beyond the lifelines on either side of the boat to keep the sun off almost the entire deck. Once we returned to San Francisco it was never used again.

Now, we've got a boat with a nice effective diesel heater - I love night deliveries now. Toasty warm sailing with only my head sticking out of the hatch. :)

I actually think Pilot houses are quite practical and make a boat much more livable, I just can't stand the way they look and that one has to hike around them so much of the time when sailing the boat.

#49 deluxe68

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:46 PM

I understand where jimma is coming from. in my own, limited experience after living aboard for seven years in the PNW (not all that easy to tell the truth), I found that teak decks were overrated. I love them, and my wife lovingly cared for them well, but I also know less-fortunate Hallberg Rassy owners faced with $20k decisions on how to replace them. I remember thinking ... never again. of course, I loved them in the Summer barefoot .. warm, and looking very salty, but we were never oblivious to maintenance issues. I also remember my wife, a much more objective sailor than I, saying that if we could do it again we would have a pilothouse as long as we were actively sailing as we were and living in the PNW in the Winter.

having said that ... we were sailing from our home port of San Juan Island, down the coast of Washington to our daughters wedding in Portland, and later, off the coast of Oregon heading south we ran into some weather and wave action that easily reached the top of our mizzen on our Hallberg-Rassy 42. coming into the Columbia Bar at Astoria, we sheared off our boom-vang fittings on the mast, and I remember thinking that the waves behind us could easily spoil our day. still, a well-constructed pilothouse would have survived I think .. and is a good compromise. I also remember thinking at some point along our adventure, that having the Hallberg-Rassy hard-dodger would have been a very, very good idea.

cruising is an amalgam of compromise ...

daniel


Only $20K? I have heard from some Swan owners that the current rate for replacing the teak deck on a 40' boat is nearly $100K.

#50 Rasputin22

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 03:16 PM




I really liked this pilothouse - maybe a bit non-traditional:

Posted Image


What is that? I like it!

The PH looks good on that for some strange reason.


It looks too tall to me, but it also looks about like I would like it. I care more whether I bump my head than I do whether those watching are enjoying the view.



Too tall was my first thought too, but looked at the brokerage page and found some more photos. I must say it looks nicely integrated with the design of the boat.

http://www.surfersjournal.com/sites/default/files/sites/default/files/property_listings/Tevake%20Cockpit.jpg

I had a Cross 42R that had very similar styling as this Simpson. When I got it it had a aluminum and glass powerboat style windsheild across the front of the cockpit that I thought was an abomination. It had trapped water in the corners and caused rot in the cabin top so I removed it to do the repairs effectively. Hauled the frames around in an ama for years, but never felt the need being young and sailing in the Caribbean. Eventually sold the windshield at a marina yard sale, but if I still had that boat today I would consider re-installation and a hard top at least.

#51 SemiSalt

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 04:29 PM

This was a pretty good shot at putting a pilothouse on a 30 foot boat, so it proved to me that it should not be done.


If there is an iconic small pilothouse, it's probably William Garden's Gulf 32.

Posted Image

#52 Soņadora

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 04:40 PM

the best execution of a 30'-ish Pilothouse is the Tashiba 31. This proves it can be done.

Posted Image

I wish I had a better pic of Chinita, this view is foreshortened and makes the boat look small.


Posted Image

oh crap, here we go again with the BP Fan Club...sheesh

That's sarcasm, by the way, and some folks just need to build a bridge and get over themselves. I couldn't care if it was Slutcome Waller who designed it, it's a damn good design.

#53 B.J. Porter

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 05:26 PM

Personally - I hate pilot houses and dodgers. As a result, I've resigned myself to getting very very wet at times. Rather than build a box on the deck of my boat I just bought much better foul weather gear. :rolleyes:

BV


I wasn't a big fan of dodgers when I started looking at cruising boats. Now, after a few years with a hard dodger on the HR 53 I do not think I would want a boat without one. Rock solid and really, really comfortable when the snot hits off shore.

Yes...not as well ventilated as not having a dodger, but this one has a big window that opens and has some decent shade so is often still the most comfy spot to sit on the boat.

Someone mentioned sun covers...we found one that came with the boat though it had no poles or rigging tackle that we could ID. No idea how to put it up, but we tried anyway.

Anyone has any suggestions on how to rig it better I'd be all ears...

#54 Ishmael

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 05:52 PM


Personally - I hate pilot houses and dodgers. As a result, I've resigned myself to getting very very wet at times. Rather than build a box on the deck of my boat I just bought much better foul weather gear. :rolleyes:

BV


I wasn't a big fan of dodgers when I started looking at cruising boats. Now, after a few years with a hard dodger on the HR 53 I do not think I would want a boat without one. Rock solid and really, really comfortable when the snot hits off shore.

Yes...not as well ventilated as not having a dodger, but this one has a big window that opens and has some decent shade so is often still the most comfy spot to sit on the boat.

Someone mentioned sun covers...we found one that came with the boat though it had no poles or rigging tackle that we could ID. No idea how to put it up, but we tried anyway.

Anyone has any suggestions on how to rig it better I'd be all ears...


Pictures would help...

#55 kdh

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 06:21 PM

...here we go again with the BP Fan Club...sheesh

That's sarcasm, by the way, and some folks just need to build a bridge and get over themselves. I couldn't care if it was Slutcome Waller who designed it, it's a damn good design.


In the spirit of everyone else in the pub sticking up for me I'm going to get in front of anyone getting in Bob's face with you Sons.

Fucking A. Bob deserves the fucking fan club. He's earned it. He followed his passion and is at the top of those who do what he does. He makes this place fun, good for us. Not sure it would be here without him.

#56 jimma

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 09:21 PM

My wife had fallen in love with the pilothouse from seeing it on the dock at a marina where our little boat is now on the hard and from studying it and sister ships on YachtWorld and elsewhere.

Yesterday, we stepped aboard with the broker and spent an hour going through it.

It is a PH version of a 40' yacht I admire greatly. As a liveaboard, we both found the PH totally impractical. The forward staterooms and head are very nice. All the other "living" is done in the PH. There is no room, nowhere to recline and read, not even a chart table that can double as a desk to sit and work. Virtually all sitting, all socializing, must be done around a cramped dining table, if not outside in the cockpit. The areas of liveability in which I thought the PH would excel, it did not.

My wife has fallen out of love with pilothouses, and now dreams of a centre cockpit Najad 42.

Hello again, sweet world.

#57 shanedennis

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:18 PM

Well played Jimma. Sounds like you've got a good one and you know it. Good wife = good boat.

#58 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 12:21 AM

jimma,

I've found the same difficulty with smaller power boats that you and your wife found with your pilot house sailboat. One of my all time favorite powerboats is the Bertram 30. It is seaworthy, great cockpit etc... but down below it's exactly like you describe - sitting around a table or in your berth. Nothing remotely like a "couch". My friend has one of these and we've ended up rounding up some friends and building an "enclosure" for the fishing deck aft. Then, we got a REAL COUCH and dropped in in the back of the boat, hanging the big-screen TV from the back of the flying bridge. When it's time to go fishing, the couch goes on the dock, the flat screen goes in the forepeak cushioned by the canvas "enclosure" parts.

The reason this matters to us is that the Admiral and I adore old movies and even with an interior as small as S'agapo there is a place to snuggle up on the "couch" and watch an old move on the Powerbook. That's one of the most important "features for us". So, we are happy to give up head-room and a lot of other stuff so we can snuggle on the "couch".


Posted Image

Let's hear it for snuggle-room.

BV

#59 floating dutchman

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:16 AM

Well Beau, At least your not calling it "Kanoodleing" any more. :lol:

#60 Tom Ray

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 12:22 PM

Yesterday, we stepped aboard with the broker and spent an hour going through it.

It is a PH version of a 40' yacht I admire greatly. As a liveaboard, we both found the PH totally impractical. The forward staterooms and head are very nice. All the other "living" is done in the PH. There is no room, nowhere to recline and read, not even a chart table that can double as a desk to sit and work. Virtually all sitting, all socializing, must be done around a cramped dining table, if not outside in the cockpit. The areas of liveability in which I thought the PH would excel, it did not.


This was pretty much my observation of the Rawson 30 pilothouse. The boat wound up with a tiny cockpit, tiny pilothouse, and tiny, chopped-up space below in front of the house. I would think that in 40 feet it could be made to work better, but the interior layout of the Tashiba looks pretty similar to me. No space big enough for more than two people and few suitable places for a 6 foot person to nap.

#61 olaf hart

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 07:44 PM


Personally - I hate pilot houses and dodgers. As a result, I've resigned myself to getting very very wet at times. Rather than build a box on the deck of my boat I just bought much better foul weather gear. :rolleyes:/>

BV


I wasn't a big fan of dodgers when I started looking at cruising boats. Now, after a few years with a hard dodger on the HR 53 I do not think I would want a boat without one. Rock solid and really, really comfortable when the snot hits off shore.

Yes...not as well ventilated as not having a dodger, but this one has a big window that opens and has some decent shade so is often still the most comfy spot to sit on the boat.

Someone mentioned sun covers...we found one that came with the boat though it had no poles or rigging tackle that we could ID. No idea how to put it up, but we tried anyway.

Anyone has any suggestions on how to rig it better I'd be all ears...


If you are talking about an awning over the cockpit, ours goes over the boom.
I made some "battens" out of thin plastic electrical conduit, in two halves with a dowel peg joining them.
There are "batten sleeves" in the cover, and lacing ties from the end of the battens to the lifelines.
Sorry no pics at the moment.

Really works well when it's hot and sunny, cockpit becomes the best place on the boat.


#62 B.J. Porter

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:10 AM



Personally - I hate pilot houses and dodgers. As a result, I've resigned myself to getting very very wet at times. Rather than build a box on the deck of my boat I just bought much better foul weather gear. :rolleyes:/>

BV


I wasn't a big fan of dodgers when I started looking at cruising boats. Now, after a few years with a hard dodger on the HR 53 I do not think I would want a boat without one. Rock solid and really, really comfortable when the snot hits off shore.

Yes...not as well ventilated as not having a dodger, but this one has a big window that opens and has some decent shade so is often still the most comfy spot to sit on the boat.

Someone mentioned sun covers...we found one that came with the boat though it had no poles or rigging tackle that we could ID. No idea how to put it up, but we tried anyway.

Anyone has any suggestions on how to rig it better I'd be all ears...


If you are talking about an awning over the cockpit, ours goes over the boom.
I made some "battens" out of thin plastic electrical conduit, in two halves with a dowel peg joining them.
There are "batten sleeves" in the cover, and lacing ties from the end of the battens to the lifelines.
Sorry no pics at the moment.

Really works well when it's hot and sunny, cockpit becomes the best place on the boat.

Attached File  Stuff 396.JPG   124.24K   47 downloads

Here's a picture of it. The fundamental problem I think is that I need some sort of bridal arrangement for the lift line in the center, and I'm not sure how to do that. That would lift the cover up off the boom, where it is (incorrectly) resting in this picture.

It's all a little fuzzy how it works, all those strings I assume tie to the life lines the way we have them, but the lengths are all weird and it doesn't go straight.

#63 Tom Ray

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 10:15 AM

Attached File  Stuff 396.JPG   124.24K   47 downloads

Here's a picture of it. The fundamental problem I think is that I need some sort of bridal arrangement for the lift line in the center, and I'm not sure how to do that. ...


That's the cool thing about arranged marriages. You just ask her and she has to stand there and hold it up! ;)

#64 Tucky

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:28 AM

I thought he was talking about flowers- I couldn't picture flowers holding up his tent, much less a wedding tent.

#65 stranded

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:31 PM

shows what can be WRONG with an awning

what you have is a MARINA cover.

Away from home port, if you have to make a move at 2 in the morning,

boat is immobilised, especially if you need to sail out of an anchorage for some reason.

awkward to get forward in a hurry when still half asleep

boat in background has a better setup.

#66 B.J. Porter

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:04 PM

shows what can be WRONG with an awning

what you have is a MARINA cover.

Away from home port, if you have to make a move at 2 in the morning,

boat is immobilised, especially if you need to sail out of an anchorage for some reason.

awkward to get forward in a hurry when still half asleep

boat in background has a better setup.

shows what can be WRONG with an awning

what you have is a MARINA cover.

Away from home port, if you have to make a move at 2 in the morning,

boat is immobilised, especially if you need to sail out of an anchorage for some reason.

awkward to get forward in a hurry when still half asleep

boat in background has a better setup.


It's not a quick take down, took maybe an hour. We've not put it back up yet as we've not parked someplace we want to stay long enough to bother with it.

The HR behind us has nothing on it beyond a Bimini...

I was very envious of some of the new light weight sun shades I've seen around, they seem to be made our of nylon stretched over flexible rods, rather than this huge recalcitrant big top escapee we have. I'm not sure one of those is in the budget though I may get some quotes when we get to St. Martin next month.

#67 No.6

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:25 PM

Full covers in the tropics are pretty much essential if you want to keep the boat a reasonable temp down below. You have to find a way to get that sucker down in just a few minutes though.
I am a fan of lighter colors to reflect the heat. The three I have delt with, one on a Tayana 55, one on a First 51 and the one on our Hylas all were two piece plus a bimini (except the 55 which was three piece, third being from checks to split backstay), breaking at the mast. All used the check stays as the aft terminus for the main portion. All had side flaps that could be rolled up. None had poles. All tied off to the stanchion bases. Webbing is better than grommets. Forward section should only go as far as the inner forestay, allows you to get up to the windlass and have some space to work up there.

#68 blackjenner

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:54 PM

My wife had fallen in love with the pilothouse from seeing it on the dock at a marina where our little boat is now on the hard and from studying it and sister ships on YachtWorld and elsewhere.

Yesterday, we stepped aboard with the broker and spent an hour going through it.

It is a PH version of a 40' yacht I admire greatly. As a liveaboard, we both found the PH totally impractical. The forward staterooms and head are very nice. All the other "living" is done in the PH. There is no room, nowhere to recline and read, not even a chart table that can double as a desk to sit and work. Virtually all sitting, all socializing, must be done around a cramped dining table, if not outside in the cockpit. The areas of liveability in which I thought the PH would excel, it did not.

My wife has fallen out of love with pilothouses, and now dreams of a centre cockpit Najad 42.

Hello again, sweet world.


Hi. Back from Vegas and I have some time to chime in.

I guess it depends on what you like. That doesn't have to be practical because personal taste comes into it. There is no convincing you or anyone else as to what to like. There are, however, some practical considerations for the pilot house design that works for us. I will also address some of the compromises we have had to deal with to get the pilothouse. We had not planned on a pilot house at first but, after seeing a few, then stepping on Brigadoon, we decided that it might work for us.

After living two years on Brigadoon, we are sold on this particular pilot house, and for good reason.

I'll show you a pic, then discuss why we like it, which seems to be counter some arguments/reasons against them.

Posted Image

This is Brigadoon, a 1980 Baba 35 Pilot House Cutter. In this picture, we are participating in the Race Your House regatta. You can't see her but, Kerry is sitting at the nav (desk/computer) station handling the navigation for this race.

Posted Image

To address an earlier point about Pilot Houses not having a good desk/nav station, in this case, we won out pretty well. This is a great nav station. It also serves as our desk/office when at the dock. Sometimes we have worked at home. It's served us well in that regard. When you are sitting at this station you can see the entire boat, in a 360 degree view. All you have to do is turn your head.

Posted Image

Same goes true if you are sitting at the inside steering station. On a trip last year, with no wind, and pouring rain, we navigated from Blake Island to the locks without ever having to step outside. I sat and steered while Kerry worked the nav station, radar and plotter. We were both sipping hot tea.

Posted Image

So, as you can see, the windows are large and the view is pretty good. I like being able to walk up the steps (not ladder but steps) from the cabin sole to the pilot house and get a 360 degree view around my boat.

Positives
  • 360 degree view of the boat from inside the cabin.
  • Inside steering station -- you can sail/motor from the inside.
  • The cockpit is two steps away.
  • The nav station is well designed with plenty of room for laptop (or two), charts and other essentials.
  • three people can sit here, if need be. Four can occupy it if one stands.
  • The pilot house does a great job of keeping spray out of the cockpit. In Race Your House, we were beating in 25-30 kt winds, with spray all over the decks and rolling off the Genoa. None of that reached the cockpit. It was totally dry.
  • I have *doors* to get into my boat. Yes, the doors can be removed for the installation of standard companionway slats for rougher seas.
  • I have *steps*, not a steep ladder.
  • My engine access is exceptional. It's not buried under bulkheads and I don't have to be a Cirque contortionist to work on it. I simply move the upper set of stairs, three braces, and I can *stand* next to the engine. Actually, two people can, like when a mechanic and I were working on a problem last year.




Drawbacks
  • Unlike the standard Baba 35, I don't have a full length hanging locker. I wish we had one but, we've been fine with that.
  • The galley on the regular 35 is larger. The house cuts into galley space but, that's a trade off in space management. We are happy with our storage.
  • Offshore with those windows? Fair point. Solution? I will have made and be able to rig lexan storm covers. I don't think that will be a big deal.
  • Sun in the tropics? Well, we have dealt with 100 degree days in Seattle during the last two summers. We have sunshades for the windows. They work great. We can also rig an "African Queen" cover to help shade. We also get great airflow with the hatches and the pilot house doors open. Yes, heat does collect there but it's stone simple to vent out. By the way, I can rig this cover in ten minutes and take it down in less than three if need be. I can motor with it in place too.
  • I have to buy new windshield wipers so I can see through the windows better when I'm sitting in the pilot house, driving the boat and sipping tea in 50 degree rain. :)

Posted Image


I know that pilot house designs vary greatly. We have seen some that aren't very attractive to us. In this case, however,we really think Bob got it spot on with this design. If someone doesn't like pilot houses, they should not get one. At the same time, the practical considerations of this particular design, along with how it has served us the last two years living aboard, can't be dismissed.

I think though, the biggest thing about this pilot house is that it's pretty (whether you like them or not). Bob drew this one well. We love, love the visibility and the space. See the view in the picture above? That's the Seattle skyline. I see that every morning when I walk up the stairs into the pilot house. After two years on this boat, we have come to realize what a find this one was for us. It's practical, functional, unique (only six made) made and attractive.

As for interior room? We have two sette's in the main salon. One is good for six footers. The other is great for accessing the folding salon table. We have no problems watching movies, snuggling, kanoodling, whatever in Brigadoon's cabin. We've entertained with as many as six sitting below in the main salon. Everyone has a seat. There is also a fairly roomy sea berth on the starboard side under the steering station. We can sleep four six footers; us in the forward berth, one on the starboard sette and one in the sea berth.

Anyway, good luck with your search. I hope you find a boat that suits you and your needs. Enjoy your sweet world. We've found ours.

#69 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:06 PM

Blackjenner,

Great post, even though I still don't like Pilot Houses, I can see why you guys like yours.

Thanks,

BV

#70 blackjenner

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:09 PM

Blackjenner,

Great post, even though I still don't like Pilot Houses, I can see why you guys like yours.

Thanks,

BV


Thanks, BV. I'm not hurt if you don't like pilot houses. :)

Not one bit.

#71 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:10 PM


Blackjenner,

Great post, even though I still don't like Pilot Houses, I can see why you guys like yours.

Thanks,

BV


Thanks, BV. I'm not hurt if you don't like pilot houses. :)

Not one bit.


LOL - I meant "no offense" ;)

#72 blackjenner

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:33 PM



Blackjenner,

Great post, even though I still don't like Pilot Houses, I can see why you guys like yours.

Thanks,

BV


Thanks, BV. I'm not hurt if you don't like pilot houses. :)

Not one bit.


LOL - I meant "no offense" ;)


Oh. None taken. :)

#73 blurocketsmate

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:31 PM

blackjenner,

Nice boat, and perspective.

We loved the full cockpit cover on the Maple Leaf 50, which on that boat was as good a pilothouse as any.


jimma and Beau,

Lack of comfortable lounging is the biggest downside of so many boats -- stupid, as that's what we do on boats 99% of the time. Older boats' settees are too narrow. Others are all dinette, sometimes two with a PH.

Some friends crossed the Pacific in a Cal 34, with the dinette always in berth mode for lounging.

#74 floating dutchman

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:09 AM

Anyone ever notice that when it comes to pilot houses there seems to be two distinct opinions, those that like them and those who don't then spending the rest of their live building one out of canvas?

#75 Dale dug a hole

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:25 AM

Anyone ever notice that when it comes to pilot houses there seems to be two distinct opinions, those that like them and those who don't then spending the rest of their live building one out of canvas?


:lol:

Fuckin' well played

I look at the advertising pic at the top of the page

Posted Image


And go I could live with that.

#76 Silverbullet

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:49 AM

...so I came up with the idea of living aboard...


It's. A. Fuck. Ing. Live. A. Board.
Who the eff cares how it sails, looks, or leaks - it won't be registering for RTC or Southern Straits - best case scenario would be a Duck Dodge so who gives a flying fuck if you're concerned about a "rogue" wave taking out the superstructure?

#77 Tom Ray

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:18 AM

I was very envious of some of the new light weight sun shades I've seen around, they seem to be made our of nylon stretched over flexible rods, rather than this huge recalcitrant big top escapee we have. I'm not sure one of those is in the budget though I may get some quotes when we get to St. Martin next month.


You might want to climb aboard and try to hide from the sun on some of them. Your big top escapee blocks a LOT more light and heat than most of those will.

#78 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 06:03 PM

Anyone ever notice that when it comes to pilot houses there seems to be two distinct opinions, those that like them and those who don't then spending the rest of their live building one out of canvas?


Well, there is a third group. Those of us who by better foul weather gear and don't like either dodgers or pilot houses.

BV

#79 Mogle

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 06:24 PM

My wife and I sailed home last year after some 13 years abroad, not all of it sailing, though much of it interesting.

We were shocked by real estate prices. There's not much sailing in Detroit or Dayton, so I came up with the idea of living aboard.

Our little boat is too small for my wife's work clothes, so a bigger bucket is in order.

Now my wife has fallen in love with a boat with a pilot house... a pilot house.

I loved her and trusted her. And she does this to me...


Feel for you. Why not get a bigger boat? Adding 3-5 feet will increase the volume. No need for a pilot house.

#80 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 07:00 PM


I was very envious of some of the new light weight sun shades I've seen around, they seem to be made our of nylon stretched over flexible rods, rather than this huge recalcitrant big top escapee we have. I'm not sure one of those is in the budget though I may get some quotes when we get to St. Martin next month.


You might want to climb aboard and try to hide from the sun on some of them. Your big top escapee blocks a LOT more light and heat than most of those will.


Here's a pic of what we use for a sun shade. It's terrifically strong and does not mind a breeze at all. It's best feature is that it goes into a bag that is 3' long and 1' in diameter. We use a beach umbrella mounted on the aft deck for sun sensitive cruisers while underway.


Posted Image

#81 blackjenner

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 07:49 PM



I was very envious of some of the new light weight sun shades I've seen around, they seem to be made our of nylon stretched over flexible rods, rather than this huge recalcitrant big top escapee we have. I'm not sure one of those is in the budget though I may get some quotes when we get to St. Martin next month.


You might want to climb aboard and try to hide from the sun on some of them. Your big top escapee blocks a LOT more light and heat than most of those will.


Here's a pic of what we use for a sun shade. It's terrifically strong and does not mind a breeze at all. It's best feature is that it goes into a bag that is 3' long and 1' in diameter. We use a beach umbrella mounted on the aft deck for sun sensitive cruisers while underway.


Posted Image


That's similar to mine but, in a few ways, much nicer.

Thanks for the ideas.

#82 jimma

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:09 AM

It's. A. Fuck. Ing. Live. A. Board.
Who the eff cares how it sails, looks, or leaks - it won't be registering for RTC or Southern Straits - best case scenario would be a Duck Dodge so who gives a flying fuck if you're concerned about a "rogue" wave taking out the superstructure?


I do know of people who never leave the dock, but that ain't me.

#83 kdh

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:45 PM


Another high falutin' language type? Or someone from our past...


Strictly a low faluter, promise.


jimma, I thought you were a sock puppet. I'm sorry I didn't give you the benefit of the doubt.

#84 Anomaly2

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:06 PM

jimma, I thought you were a sock puppet. I'm sorry I didn't give you the benefit of the doubt.


It's OK, just buy him a maguerita (or 10) and all will be forgiven....

#85 hobot

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:51 AM

Ah, sturdy nipples.

Let's take a poll on that, as soon as we have some pictures.


Just to get this thread back on track, I'm going to help him out.

Posted Image

ya'll can thank me later.

#86 floating dutchman

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:09 AM

Hobot, kdh is much better at this than you are.

#87 hobot

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:21 AM

Oh no you di'int...

Posted Image

bring it.

#88 Ishmael

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:32 AM

ay caramba

words fail me

#89 floating dutchman

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:02 AM

Fail

#90 Just Bob

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:04 AM

Please be photo shop.

#91 floating dutchman

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:04 AM

While we’re on thread drift:



Blame it on my ADD.

#92 hobot

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 08:29 AM

ay caramba

words fail me


Hey, FD started it man!

#93 floating dutchman

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 08:40 AM


ay caramba

words fail me


Hey, FD started it man!


I did f-ing not! ;)

Attached File  tiny-tits-camgirl.jpg   28.74K   7 downloads

That's how it's done.

kdh some help please

jimma, I'm hijacking your thread because My wife only puts up with the whole boat ownership thing because it keeps me happy, and your complaining about your wife wanting a boat with a pilot house, geeze, at least she want's a boat!
And I'm drinking.

My wife does admit to having some very good memories with the boat though.

#94 jimma

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:03 PM

And she's taking over, sending me emails all day long with links to boats she's found. Pilothouses are yesterday's thing. She's developed a hankering for cruisers with a rep for performance because she's used to wind and discovered there ain't a lot of that in the Salish Sea... in the summertime anyway.

#95 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:43 PM

And she's taking over, sending me emails all day long with links to boats she's found. Pilothouses are yesterday's thing. She's developed a hankering for cruisers with a rep for performance because she's used to wind and discovered there ain't a lot of that in the Salish Sea... in the summertime anyway.


Good for her! You're a very lucky man!!

#96 Salazar

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 01:48 AM


I wasn't a big fan of dodgers when I started looking at cruising boats. Now, after a few years with a hard dodger on the HR 53 I do not think I would want a boat without one. Rock solid and really, really comfortable when the snot hits off shore.

Yes...not as well ventilated as not having a dodger, but this one has a big window that opens and has some decent shade so is often still the most comfy spot to sit on the boat.

Someone mentioned sun covers...we found one that came with the boat though it had no poles or rigging tackle that we could ID. No idea how to put it up, but we tried anyway.

Anyone has any suggestions on how to rig it better I'd be all ears...


Attached File  Stuff 396.JPG   124.24K   47 downloads

Here's a picture of it. The fundamental problem I think is that I need some sort of bridal arrangement for the lift line in the center, and I'm not sure how to do that. That would lift the cover up off the boom, where it is (incorrectly) resting in this picture.

It's all a little fuzzy how it works, all those strings I assume tie to the life lines the way we have them, but the lengths are all weird and it doesn't go straight.


Those white tabs about 3' from the back, is there an easy way to attach them to the running backs?

Are there any batten pockets in it anywhere?




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