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Melges 24 in a bag...


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#1 overdraft

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:15 PM

Hey, I'm lazy... If I get a Melges 24 and put a barrier coat on the bottom to stop the osmosis and sail it out of a bag like so, is that going to render me uncompetitive in a club racing fleet? So no antifouling, just some kind of epoxy. On an unrelated matter, is it legal to paint the deck and topsides if the boat is all beaten to shit and ugly?

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#2 DRIFTW00D

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:37 PM

Where U at in the great whit e north AHH.

PHRF racing???



#3 overdraft

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:56 PM

no, i'll be racing with other melgeese, but just at the club level... not planning a travelling campaign

#4 AVID

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:55 PM

have a look at this, I have one for my Sydney 38 and wouldn't leave home without it lol

http://www.seapen.com.au/


#5 Savage 17

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:40 PM

Yes, you can paint the deck and the hull..... but keep in mind unless you are taking material off, you are just adding more weight tot he boat!

#6 Bitter Gnat

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:45 PM

If yer too lazy to dry sail, this is the best way to go:

http://www.boatlift.com/

#7 arr4ws

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 05:45 PM

just paint it with interprotect then vc-17 every year. Do not do the keel. Thats what i did on mine in 2002 , no humidity detected in the hull in last year survey.

Where in canada you want to race?

#8 GnD

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:06 PM

You can paint the top and the bottom.
document. see where you are on the weight.

You can wet sail a melges. many do. but it will blister if you do not put your barrier coat on it. Just go epoxy and sail it out of a bag. You are allowed to rough up the bottom to make it stick. Not that hard to do.

for the deck. it is very easy to paint it. you can roll the non skid on. easy. makes the boat look new.

A old melges can be made to look new with a quick spray and roll. watch the weight.

be careful the the keel. The old boats get fixed with everything know to man. So you want to make sure you epoxy it well.

You will scrub it before each race.

My question is why not just dry store it. less work and they are very fast to rig. drop the tent on it and there is basically NO work required between sailing trips.

You will end up going to a few races with it. They are too easy to pack up and head to the out of town race.

good luck and welcome to the fleet.

#9 Elliot7

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 03:25 AM

Word of caution - I have wet sailed out of a bag and dry sailed. In terms of "total" effort....dry sailing is much much easier. Dry sailing has less maintenance and when you need to, its much easier. Even with a bag you will still need to wipe the hull, and they tend not to do to well against coral.

#10 Savage 17

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 03:42 AM

I highly recommend dry sailing the boat !

#11 overdraft

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 08:47 AM

thanks for the wisdom to date guys!
i dry sailed my hotfoot 20 (precursor to the ultimate 20) years ago and i didn't love the process. now there are 10 melgeese competing fot the same crane on race day so it'll be even worse! wet sailing my pocket rocket i'm finishing my second beer by the time the dry sailing crowd start wandering in.
the bag sailed boats in the club seem to do ok at resisting growth in these waters so i was more curious to see if people thought there would be a speed degredation if i put a barrier coat on and floated the thing.

#12 Bitter Gnat

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 07:54 PM

Like I said above, you really should consider a Hydrohoist. We've left our M24 in the water for a week and it was a pain in the arse to clean the growth out of the keel box.

#13 jokerx9

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 09:05 PM

Just dont leave it in the water. Thats the worst thing you can do to a melges 24. If your lazy, stay with bigger boats. No matter how you slice it, smaller boats are more hands on. No matter how much money you have, they are still more hands on! Even if you have enough money to pay someone to put your boat in and out, this is not an option. You'll look like a jackass. Bigger boats are more in line with people who have money and are lazy. Its "ok" to pay someone to clean the bottom, detail the boat, deliver it, and haul it.

#14 overdraft

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 07:47 PM

god i love internet forums! hey, anyone know the answer to question A? sure, here's the answer to question B and a commentary of what I think of you based on my assumptions...

jokerx9... i don't know how you managed to infer that i had money from what i asked... one of my regular crew is a diver if i end up getting slime from being in the bag, but none of the other bag sailed boats seem to have a problem with it. so you seem vehement about not keeping the boat in the water... any reason why? or i should just take your word because you 'know' that i have money and like big boats so you must be very smart?

so, is putting a barrier coat on and wet sailng going to slow me down? ya, paint adds weight... get reweighed and put smaller correctors on... next?

#15 arr4ws

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:09 AM

its not going to slow you down much if you do a proper job with the interprotect. Sand it smooth like gelcoat and have fun. I sail my melges 3-4 times a week in summer , i wouldnt do it that much if it was drysailed. Youll have more time sailing the boat than any other crew. Melges 24 racing is all about teamwork , and i beat every one at my club because we are the best in teamwork.

Like i said , last survey didnt revealed anything wrong with the hull.

where in canada?

#16 jokerx9

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:20 AM

No I wasn't inferring that you had money. I was just simply stating the culture of small boats and big boats. Honestly, unless your an extremely good sailor, out there six days a week, keeping it in the water is probably not going to make that much of a difference. There are plenty of other things on a boat you need to have exactly right and master before the bottom job starts playing a role. I'm just the type of sailor where that matters. I am No way a "great" sailor or out there 6 days a week, but I still like keeping the boat dry, all covers on. Mainly it's a mental thing I guess. You will see the top guys in the fleet never leave their boats in very long or even uncovered. Once your in the fleet for a while, you may develop that competitive edge where you don't leave anything to chance!

#17 overdraft

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 06:23 AM

arr4ws, I'm on the other side! Victoria, BC! Thanks for the info. I've used Interprotect before on a rudder I templated and I didn't want the fairing compound absorbing water. I got a decent finish on the topcoat I put over it.

jokerx9, I like keeping a tidy boat too, but I guess my take on it is a bit different. For example I see other Melgeese that have covers that they put on diligently, and yet their lines are knotted instead of spliced, so to me it's them that have the sloppy program! I've maintained a well prepared wet sailed boat for years and remained competitive but in a mostly wet sailed club fleet. So what I've been trying so assess in this thread is the quantum by which wet sailing will slow the boat down. Is it so bad that the other club sailors will kick my ass every time? Or is it more something that only a top pro would notice. By the way, I get that top boats wouldn't get left in the water. Gel coat is relatively porous and without a barrier coat it would definitely absorb water and therefore weight!

#18 jokerx9

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:52 AM

Like I said, I dont think its gonna make a whole lot of difference until you have mastered everything else. Plus your club racing, so its fine.

#19 overdraft

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:05 PM

ya, and something tells me I'll never 'master everything else'! it's #80 anyway so from a pro point of view i'm sure the boat's toast already...

#20 arr4ws

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 01:29 AM

just have fun.. melges are a blast to sail!

#21 Savage 17

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:26 AM

It isn't going to help your resale value!

#22 overdraft

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 05:14 PM

It isn't going to help your resale value!


meh... i'll bet most of the sub 100 hulls are getting painted... if it looks good and it's reweighed/reweighted after i don't really see it being an issue... but i'm new! what do i know!

#23 arr4ws

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:07 AM

most people buying old hulls used them for fun ... you will pay bottom dollars for one so who cares about resale value?

#24 WCB

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:52 AM

Or you could just wetsail with wetsanded bottom paint like VC Offshore and not care. There's a J24 (or there was, not sure if they still do this) in the Newport, RI fleet (super competitive, 25+ boats) and they wet-sailed and they were pretty much always in the top five if not top three. The boat was Salsa, the skipper and crew made the biggest difference.

#25 arr4ws

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:56 PM

in races where we struggled upwind , we always catch the other melges at the top mark , we are faster than anyone else when it comes to maneuver.

#26 Savage 17

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:42 PM

Or you could just wetsail with wetsanded bottom paint like VC Offshore and not care. There's a J24 (or there was, not sure if they still do this) in the Newport, RI fleet (super competitive, 25+ boats) and they wet-sailed and they were pretty much always in the top five if not top three. The boat was Salsa, the skipper and crew made the biggest difference.


You could put bottom paint, but any M24 buyer would buy a dry sailed boat over a wet sailed M24. 98% of the class dry sails and does not have bottom paint or epoxy.

The J-24 class is completely different. A J-24 won't plane! and a J-24 can cost $2k-10k. M24 start at $18k-$70k.....

#27 barnone

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 01:26 AM

Rocket 22 on a bag.

This system works awesome for me. It's also affordable. 1k used, 3k new.

Takes some mcguivering skills to make it work keel down. But after that all gravy. If you are lazy, then no.

http://rocket22sailo...launch-pad.html

#28 rodnichols69

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 06:13 PM

Wet sailing a Melges ultimately will be much more work than dry sailing it. We dry sail a Melges and have it in the water in less than 15 minutes. If you don't want to deal with the crane, get a hydro hoist. If you cant afford a hydro hoist, you definitely can't afford the maintenance associated with keeping the boat in the water. Sailing and lazy don't go hand in hand unless you plan on cutting the boat up in 3 years and using it for scrap. http://www.yachtauct...inventory/8190/

#29 Speng

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 01:26 PM

If you're such a lazy cunt that you can't take five minutes to crank the keel up and take the rudder off you'll be too lazy to sail the boat boat fast enuff to be first at the dock anyway so who cares about competitiveness...

Hey, I'm lazy... If I get a Melges 24 and put a barrier coat on the bottom to stop the osmosis and sail it out of a bag like so, is that going to render me uncompetitive in a club racing fleet? So no antifouling, just some kind of epoxy. On an unrelated matter, is it legal to paint the deck and topsides if the boat is all beaten to shit and ugly?



#30 Jerryd

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:31 PM

If you're such a lazy cunt that you can't take five minutes to crank the keel up and take the rudder off you'll be too lazy to sail the boat boat fast enuff to be first at the dock anyway so who cares about competitiveness...


Hey, I'm lazy... If I get a Melges 24 and put a barrier coat on the bottom to stop the osmosis and sail it out of a bag like so, is that going to render me uncompetitive in a club racing fleet? So no antifouling, just some kind of epoxy. On an unrelated matter, is it legal to paint the deck and topsides if the boat is all beaten to shit and ugly?


Nice civil response Speng! You having a bad day?

#31 GnD

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:02 PM

we just back the trailer right into the water. No waiting for the lift.

The beers are already going in the dry storage and you get to hang with the fleet.

Welcome to the fleet. the PNW fleet is booming. think about coming to travel race. We can set up a place to stay. We will be heading north a couple of times this year to race up in Canada. The PNW fleet is really growing.

It would be great to see 30 plus boats at local races. 10 in Victoria, 10 Vancouver, The Canada fleet is really growing. The puts over 50 melges 24 in the PNW now.

#32 overdraft

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:56 PM

ya, clearly i'm not rich enough for this class... oh well, i'll sail around and have a good time anyway with my old sails and my slow boat. someone's gotta be last! went for my very first sail sunday and had a blast! shrimped the kite twice, went really fast, wasn't last at every mark (although i was last at the finish line all 3 times!) didn't break anything, didn't retire like some people (building breeze... maybe just over 20 for the last race?) and yes, after all that i really hated the crane thing... we'll see how it goes over the next little while...

GnD, might try and do Whitbey...

Oh ya, any of you pros know if i can stand the boat on the keel if i want to get underneath? obviously the hull and rig are supported in the same manner as when you lift it with a crane, so the question is, can the keel take the compression?
Thanks!

#33 Deepy

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:18 PM

I have a Magic 25 in a boat bag (www.boatbag.com.au) for last 4 years with no bottom coat and still in perfect condition. Just add a bit of chlorine and no growth. Might have a scum line at waterline but this clears off easily. Easy to enter & release. No need for a crane and you can release the boat on your own.

#34 GnD

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:45 PM

No standing the boat on the keel.
Just hang it by the straps. We have lifted ours with the straps, if you are hanging it for a while. tie off the back

if you want to paint the keel and bottom.
leave the keel on the trailer.
lift the boat by the straps. Tie it off by the back and front. it will spread the load out and make it so you can tape off the top.

we lift the keel off the trailer with a forklift or a comealong. Really works well.

with out the keel in the boat it is much lighter. easier to work on it

#35 overdraft

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:10 AM

all this presumes i have lengthy access to a crane to suspend the boat from while i'm working, which i don't. hence my question about whether the keel can take it! no matter... i can make a fake keel out of lumber and stand it on that!

#36 arr4ws

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:39 AM



#37 GnD

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:54 PM

No standing the boat on the keel.
Just hang it by the straps. We have lifted ours with the straps, if you are hanging it for a while. tie off the back

if you want to paint the keel and bottom.
leave the keel on the trailer.
lift the boat by the straps. Tie it off by the back and front. it will spread the load out and make it so you can tape off the top.

we lift the keel off the trailer with a forklift or a comealong. Really works well.

with out the keel in the boat it is much lighter. easier to work on it


with out the keel in it. You can hang it from the rafters. We did that with a comalong and some large ropes.

one of the guys made a lift out of beams.

we lifted it up once with a fork lift.

#38 nroose

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 09:47 PM

Rocket 22 on a bag.

This system works awesome for me. It's also affordable. 1k used, 3k new.

Takes some mcguivering skills to make it work keel down. But after that all gravy. If you are lazy, then no.

http://rocket22sailo...launch-pad.html

Looks like you leave the jib up as well?




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