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Pacific Cup 2014 - Q&A, Tips...

J/120 DoubleHanded Hawaii

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#1 Roleur

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:03 AM

Hey, this isn't another what boat should I get thread, because finally, we already have the boat! Now we just need to make this happen. Who else is in or thinking about it for 2014?

I posted a similar post on the J/Anarchy site because we have a J/120 and I had some boat specific questions, but there are probably (hopefully) a number of more general questions that I and others contemplating the race might have. Let this serve as the collection point. Please, if you've done this race or a similar race before, post your thoughts.

We have a J/120 that my wife and I are planning to Double-Hand in the next Pac Cup. I just found out earlier this week that I am being transferred back to the US, making the logistics a reality for something I've been dreaming about for 20+ years. The two of us sailed our boat across the Atlantic this summer and that went great. Our boat has a proven track record prior to our ownership, but after that we are really lacking in race experience. We raced a lot in Seattle 15-20 years ago, more in dinghies and under 30 footers. Since then not so much. That's okay, we still have 18 months to prepare and practice and it will be an adventure regardless of how fast we go.
  • Has anyone decided not to do the 2014 race specifically due to concerns over tsunami debris?
  • Are there any specific tips to driving with an asymmetrical (at night?), particularly on a boat that doesn't actually plane. Anything particularly different or harder than driving with a normal chute?
  • Our boat will be based out of Corpus Christi for the year leading up to Pac Cup. Seems like a decent place to practice with the local breeze. Not so different from the Bay is it?
  • What are the things that trip people up during the safety inspection? I think we have most of the essential gear, but there are definitely some of the little details to take care of.
  • Emergency rudder - I know this can be a challenge. Once we get back to the US and have a garage again I'm going to build an cassette style emergency rudder. We'll see how that goes.
  • Any tips for double-handing regarding sail handling and sleep management? We have a new NKE autopilot that can handle most anything so we won't be tied to the wheel the whole way across. I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on when it makes more sense to drive and when it makes more sense to let the autopilot drive and focus more on sail trim.
  • Any interesting thoughts on routing or polars? We have a sat phone and will have one of the routing software options, but there is so much more to this.
  • No SSB requirement for double-handers right?
I know I will have more questions once I go back through the race requirements, but this is a good start. 18 months! Looking forward to a whole lot of fun.

#2 JSoup

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:27 PM

I responded to your other message too:

1. No. We have been up and down the coast 4 times since May and have thought about Tsunami debri and haven't seen a single thing. There is a always a possibility, but it's a big ocean. Seems like, by 2014, most of the stuff would have made it's way to shore, wouldn't it?

2. White spinnakers suck at night, with most other darker colors (or trim "Vs") you can see the kite pretty easily most of the time and drive like you do during the day. I can't think of a time it was an issue, in Pac Cup, or any other of the many night races we've done.

3. No comment, never been there.

4. Nothing tripped us up. Just read the rules carefully and follow them. E-Rudder can be a big deal, but you already know that.

No comments on 5-8.

#3 pogen

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 10:51 PM

1. I heard some boats doing the return had some issues with clearing fishing net debris, while others did not see much or had no issues. We shipped back. This was very expensive!

8. SSB no longer required for anyone. Satphone alone is OK, you can rent those and the instal is very easy.

#4 Roleur

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:12 AM

Thanks for the replies and tips guys.

JSoup will you be sailing Double-handed or fully crewed on the J/105? Am I confusing myself or did you have the previous boat that was hit by a whale during the Oregon Offshore?

Pogen, what kind of boat were you on? Who did you ship back with and if you don't mind sharing what was the cost? It would be great to collecting this sort of information here for others contemplating 2014. My current plan is to ship our boat back too. I've contacted SevenStar and started talking to them about these annual races that terminate in Hawaii and how there is a bit of a gap in the market for big boats that want to ship back. As I understand it, the current shipping options are really more setup for smaller boats with trailers and you have to unstep the mast. With SevenStar any boat in the fleet could be put onboard and leave the rig up. I could be wrong, but I have the sense there might be quite a few bigger boats that would take advantage of that sort of option. I'll let people know as I learn more. Please chime in, if you would be interested in this type of shipping option.

SSB - As I read the SI's it seems if you have a Sat Phone then you still must have SSB receiver capable of receiving weather and fleet communications. We have an Iridium 9555 with an Optimizer wireless router that compresses files. We used this everyday for our crossing in July and it really worked well. Amazingly well actually. Setup time to start receiving gribs and wxfax images onto an iPad through the Iridium was literally just a few hours for someone starting at ground zero on the topic. For SSB receiver compliance we have a Grundig YachtBoy 400 that probably cost $100-200 15 years ago and still looks and works like brand new.

Routing - I know there are a number of options out there now. Yesterday, I sat myself down and got the free qtvlm working. It isn't the most intuitive thing ever, especially since even the English version has some French mixed in, but with a few missteps I got the thing to download/upload a grib and do a route optimization. Minor success. I'm going to play with this over the next few months as we have two 800-900 mile trips coming up and see if it is the real deal or not.

Polars - I'm told that Expedition makes it fairly easy to create boat specific polars, but for those of us without Expedition (nothing against it, just don't have it), are there other options? Is there software just for polars that would ingest BS, TWA, and TWS? .... And I just answered my own question. You can get Adrena Optima software for 308 euros specific for polar creation. Now I just have to make the leap and get my NKE instruments connected up to the NMEA interface.

LifeBouys - SI's require two of these, which seems a bit funny for a double-handed boat. One is a LifeSling. What is typical for the second requirement that must have a drogue, light, pole and flag? I thought I saw on the back of Double Trouble two LifeSlings, but I don't see how the drogue, pole, and flag were addressed. Maybe the hard case was a MOM and not a LifeSling? Anyone?

#5 Total Slacker

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 07:00 PM

One thought would be to bring your boat over to SoCal and join the PSSA races double handed. You will get to practice and test your gear in a competitive environment in similar conditions to the PacCup. The Guadalupe Island Race would make a great qualifier.

There are 2 other J/120s that come out for the races.

#6 pogen

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:33 AM



Pogen, what kind of boat were you on?


Olson 34, racer cruiser, 11000 lbs, rates 99, we were doublehanded.


Who did you ship back with and if you don't mind sharing what was the cost?

About $20k, detailed here: http://neversealand....09/24/home-now/

I know a J-35, the Classe 40, also shipped home from the same yard. The trailer I rended was OK for a Cal 40 or a Farr 40 so the J-120 ought to fit on a similar trailer. As far as I know all boats that get shipped back on Matson are decomissioned. Matson has for the last few editions given a very favorable RoRo shipping rate, does not charge for the empty trailer sent to Hawaii, and does not include the length of the mast in calculating the load volume (this is a big deal!).

For SSB receiver compliance we have a Grundig YachtBoy 400 that probably cost $100-200 15 years ago and still looks and works like brand new. That will satisfy the requirement.



#7 JSoup

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 06:01 AM

Roleur - We were not hit/dismasted by that whale in Oregon Offshore, that was another guy in our local fleet though.

We will crewed, as our boat is a 3-way partnership.

The quote I got for shipping back to California (San Diego), given having a trailer, was about $5,000. $20K would be a non-starter for us. Our boat is a lot shorter though, and would impact the price.

#8 Roleur

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 07:12 PM

The quote I got for shipping back to California (San Diego), given having a trailer, was about $5,000. $20K would be a non-starter for us. Our boat is a lot shorter though, and would impact the price.


Make sure you check out Pogen's link regarding shipping. His $19k is all up, but only $8k was the actual Matson freight. The rest was all the before and after costs associated with a Matson shipping. Great info!

#9 pogen

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 07:40 PM

Better planning, more rigging skill on my part and availability to do some more of the work myself might have reduced my amount by maybe as much as $4k, but for a bigger boat I don't see how to squeeze out much more than that.

An E-27 or M-24 owner that can get access to a hoist or other hardware to unstep his own mast outside a yard, and who already owns a trailer can do much, much better on cost.

There is only one real yard in Hawaii as far as I can tell, their rates are very high, and there are no freebies -- e.g. pressure wash is extra, there is a daily fee for mast storage, etc. And they have very limited space for dry storage or slip space while you wait to coordinate with your ship.

I had a lot of help from PDF Hawaii, my freight forwarder http://www.pdfhawaii.com/ I hear there are other good ones out there, but I would recommend PDF, fortunately some friends were able to hook us up at the last minute.

#10 ronnie_simpson

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 07:45 PM

surprised no one said this, but you can install a small LED light on the foredeck (red or other color) that will illuminate the luff of the spinnaker and you can drive/ trim based off that.

i did SH transpac this year and then delivered one of the boats from SH Transpac from Kauai to Seattle and this was the FIRST year out of the last three that I saw no debris anywhere in the ocean. not saying it's not out there, but i think it's all a crap shoot any year so i wouldn't be worreid about tsunami debris in my opinion.

people get too caught up in routing. the worst race i ever had across the pacific was a dipshit owner who blindly followed expedition and whatever the most current grib said. as a result we went all over the place and parked up in the high. i used commander's to route me at the start this year and they NAILED it.

Gilles (GC composite) in Point Richmond or Greg Nelson can both build good carbon e-rudders. Greg built a carbon e-rudder for my Moore 24 this year and i was happy with it.

btw, my rates are competitve or slightly under most other delivery skippers and it would run about 10-12 grand to sail it back to the west coast

#11 DWD

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 11:20 PM

We did Pac Cup DH this year on my SunFast 3200.

1.) Definitely more crap out there than when I last did it in 2002. We stopped the boat twice and had to dive once to clear garbage. Someone called in a concrete dock position at roll call one morning they just missed. I wonder if it was the same one that wound up in Maui a couple months later. Also saw some very large steel balls I would not want to hit. The debris issue would be on my mind for 2014.

2.) Our staysail really helped with either assyms or syms (we carried both).

4.) Inspections were, and will be, meticulous. The Farallones and N2E accidents this year made it even more meticulous. Expect to be checked on everything, as in 100%. Get the Pac Cup version of the Cat 1 requirements and go down the list skipping nothing. You will be checked from toe rail height to hatch latches to storm sail colors.

5.) A good emergency rudder on a J-boat - no comment ;)

6.) The AP is the best driver on the boat once you are sleep deprived. Use the apparent wind angle. Let it drive as much as your batteries will allow and it can handle. My standard Raymarine was OK, but had a tough time avoiding round-ups above 20+ with big swells. Sail trim will be secondary.

7.) You won't be doing much routing after a couple days. Sleep will be your highest priority, followed by eating. When you are down to 3 hour shifts you won't be wanting to waste any of your 3 hour off playing on the computer. We had a satphone with data capability and third party compression/email SW on the laptop. No routing capability on the laptop, just standard chartplotter SW and the laptop USB'd to the boats GPS/AIS. Setup a daily email subscription of 3-day GRIBs from Saildocs and look at them in the morning as part of your email roll call routine (no SSB). You can also have saildocs retrieve the weatherfax TIFFs and email them to you.
Highly recommend an AIS receiver btw.

8.) Only a SSB receiver was required. Sony makes a little radio for about $100 that worked great for listening to the daily roll call positions. Satphone/email is the way to go. Install a fixed mount satphone system with a fixed external marine antenna. My IsatphonePro in a Beam Technologies dock and marine antenna worked great with my Mac laptop. I set up an email account with GMN and purchased their router/firewall so that 1.) the laptop/satphone connection was wireless and 2.) the firewall stops any programs from trying to update their SW while you have a satellite connection up/downloading your email ($1/minute at 2400 baud can get very expensive).

As for shipping I used Pasha. Much better price and service than Matson. They only go to San Diego on a 2 week schedule since they only have one boat going back and forth. I think they are adding a second boat so maybe they will be more often than 2 weeks.
My cost for a 32' boat was $6k plus $1k decommissioning at Keehi and $600 to retrieve the trailer/deliver boat to port in HI, and $700 commissioning in San Diego. I did all of the commissioning and decommissioning myself. You will need a trailer. A J120 may be at the tipping point of being cost prohibitive, although my friends shipped their J35 for roughly the same as my 32'.

Doug

#12 frankda1959

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:56 AM

Talk to Jim Quanci. He and his wife Mary as been heavily involved in the Pac Cup for 2 decades. He as done over 12 races to Hawaii, including a double-handed overall Pac Cup win, a SSS TransPac win and a few crewed class wins. He has raced SC-50's, J-44, Moore 24, Hobie 33 and his Cal 40.

My comment is that a reliable AP, which means more than one, will be very important. People over-rate their driving abilities and there are lots of other things to be done; sleep being the most important. I DH'ed twice in the early 90's without an AP but on a Moore which is easy to handle.

Two other comments. If you haven't already done it. Do as much overnight ocean racing/trainings as possible. If this is your first long ocean race short-handed KISS everything possible, including routing/tactics!

#13 Roleur

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:24 AM

Thanks for all the tips so far guys. Keep 'em coming. To start off the New Year I thought I'd post up 3 great videos from the 2012 Pacific Cup. First up is the video from Kotuku, a Farr 1220 out of Seattle. You might remember the cool photo on the front page a few months ago of the boat hitting 19.6 knots, but have you seen the whole sequence in video with the sweet round down following the bitchin' surf?



#14 Roleur

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:26 AM

And here is the video from DWD on Relentless, Double-Handed Sunfast 3200. If this stuff doesn't get you jonesin' to race, nothing will.



#15 Roleur

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:28 AM

And then we have the J/125 Double Trouble...



#16 Roleur

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:31 AM

Okay, one more, just because I think it is funny that we were sailing at exactly the same time as Pacific Cup 2012, and from the video it might be hard to tell that we are sailing a different ocean in the opposite direction, but this is from our Atlantic crossing in "cruise" mode, sort of.



#17 Roleur

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:22 AM

One of the requirements for Pac Cup is 8 hours of weather forecasting? How are people satisfying this requirement? I've taken the master's curriculum in meteorology (1.5 years of full-time courses). That would satisfy the requirement wouldn't it?

#18 pogen

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:22 AM

I don't think there is any specific requirement for weather forecasting training.

#19 Roleur

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 07:57 AM

I got it from secton 6.02.9 of the OSR


6.02.9 weather forecasting
US SAILING prescribes that training under this regulation (OSR 6.02) shall take
place in a program that is approved by US SAILING and that shall require a
minimum of 8 hours. Competetitors who are members of other National
Governing Bodies may demonstrate that they have completed such training in
accordance with the requirements of those organizations.

I didn't see anything about it on the skipper certification or inspection checklist though.

#20 pogen

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:08 PM

OK, see the OSR/NOR from 2012 here: http://2012.pacificc.../2012NOROSR.pdf

Attached File  2013-01-07_090516.jpg   83.44K   9 downloads

The italics text for the USS prescription of an 8-hour course refers to the entirety of the Safety at Sea training (Section 6.02), not just the sub-head of weather training. So if you take the one-day USS version of Safety at Sea, you are covered.

#21 Roleur

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:50 PM

Early entry is open. Here's the list from the first 24 hours. Looks like some fun SC27 fleet racing in the works.

https://pacificcup.org/node/7973

We have about 1500 miles of what should be good practice coming up in the next 3 months. Porto to Gib and Ft. Lahdidah to Corpus Ready to get crackin' on the training and prep.



#22 dog of war

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:50 PM

Is David doing it again with his Brother on GS again? I know that the year they did it against my brother and I that they were a bit behind from the start due to the boat being stolen a few months before! I wish them a fantastic race this time!!

#23 Roleur

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 08:43 AM

Does anyone have any leads for getting a trailer built that would be suitable for getting a J120 on and off a ship?

#24 Boomberries

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 04:16 AM

After meeting some of the folks who do this race last year, and being in Hawaii for the wind up party and doing the delivery back , this race is very appealing and I might conisder trying to find a ride for next year.(Vic Maui has little or no appeal)

Great turn out of boats, excellent hosting yacht club at Kaneohe Bay and a fine group of folks racing.



#25 Speng

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 08:33 PM


2. White spinnakers suck at night, with most other darker colors (or trim "Vs") you can see the kite pretty easily most of the time and drive like you do during the day. I can't think of a time it was an issue, in Pac Cup, or any other of the many night races we've done.
 

google "glow in the dark markers"



#26 Kmag

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 08:55 PM


2. White spinnakers suck at night, with most other darker colors (or trim "Vs") you can see the kite pretty easily most of the time and drive like you do during the day. I can't think of a time it was an issue, in Pac Cup, or any other of the many night races we've done.
 

google "glow in the dark markers"

 

Try this out:  http://www.glowfast....-sail-tape.html

 

I disagree about white spinnakers at night... all you need are some trim chevrons



#27 stinky

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 09:46 PM

This was the best night kite ever. So easy to see.

#28 stinky

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 09:49 PM

Forgot to press a button:

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#29 Trevor B

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 04:40 AM

As you know, ugliest kite EVER!

White is fine.



#30 DtM

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:37 PM

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.



#31 JSoup

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:50 PM

Kmag- yes Chevrons, that's what I meant by trim Vs, couldn't think of the proper name. Without those though, I still think white kites suck at night. I initially wrote that because it may be counter intuitive to someone inexperienced offshore at night. When I did my fist offshore race ~20 years ago I was surprised that the owners had black panels sewm into the shoulders off their offshore kite inventory. I would have never thought black would be easier to see, but I became believer that night and have observed same many time since.

#32 Kmag

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 11:48 PM

So long as there is some contrast on the luff it is fine.



#33 notallthere

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 02:32 PM

Forgot to press a button:

 

I like it!



#34 red_sky_sf

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 04:52 AM

>>> I did the Solo Transpac, saw a few items, see photos for samples:

  • Has anyone decided not to do the 2014 race specifically due to concerns over tsunami debris?

>> Debris on return (see photos):  From left to right: I saw many steel net balls,  an overturned fishing panga,  glass net balls

     On race down:  Floating refrigerator, steel pipe section with end caps - big/ugly, wall sections, wooden boxes. lots of foam.

>>> I struck something one night, made lots of noise. On return I hit a dead head, saw it emerge from hull after I ran on deck.  Scratched up the waterline paint stripe pretty well.

>>> The fishing makes up for those annoying and noisy collisions.

 

 

  • Are there any specific tips to driving with an asymmetrical (at night?), particularly on a boat that doesn't actually plane. Anything particularly different or harder than driving with a normal chute?
  • Our boat will be based out of Corpus Christi for the year leading up to Pac Cup. Seems like a decent place to practice with the local breeze. Not so different from the Bay is it?
  • What are the things that trip people up during the safety inspection? I think we have most of the essential gear, but there are definitely some of the little details to take care of.mmmm
  • Emergency rudder - I know this can be a challenge. Once we get back to the US and have a garage again I'm going to build an cassette style emergency rudder. We'll see how that goes.

>> Best approach.  I sailed hundreds of miles to finish a Pac Cup under cassette rudder.

  • Any tips for double-handing regarding sail handling and sleep management? We have a new NKE autopilot that can handle most anything so we won't be tied to the wheel the whole way across. I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on when it makes more sense to drive and when it makes more sense to let the autopilot drive and focus more on sail trim.
  • Any interesting thoughts on routing or polars? We have a sat phone and will have one of the routing software options, but there is so much more to this.
  • No SSB requirement for double-handers right?
I know I will have more questions once I go back through the race requirements, but this is a good start. 18 months! Looking forward to a whole lot of fun.

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#35 NoStrings

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:06 AM

My boat doesn't plane, but it will surf if its windy enough. It just won't surf long enough to overrun the kite. So we trim it and leave it, then we drive to it. Why? Well, I'm kind of convinced that we can out drive my autopilot downwind, plus driving is a: more fun, and b: more likely to pay off in higher speeds (as long as you don't fall into the trap,of chasing high speeds off the corner of the course).

#36 NoStrings

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:11 AM

If I was seeking PAC Cup advice and was entering a J120, I think I'd track down Mark Deppe and buy him a nice dinner while I picked his brain for tips.

#37 Boomberries

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 03:59 AM

It speaks well of a race when it is over a year 'til the race start, and more than half the entires are already confirmed. 38/70 boats registered for next July



#38 Roleur

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 12:54 AM

10 months before the start and race is "full".  71 entrants for 70 start positions.  

 

Shearwater is moving forward with preparations and practice.  We did 500 miles together last April from Porto to Gibraltar, then 900 miles double-handed from Key West to Galveston in July (3 days with no autopilot was good driving practice).  That's 5000nm is a year.  Funny thing - we still haven't sailed the same direction as another boat that we could see.  Don't know if we are going forward or backwards.  

 

October is the Harvest Moon Regatta, 150 miles from Galveston to Corpus.  Our first offshore race.

 

SAS at St. Francis YC in November.  

 

The list is long, but getting shorter.   



#39 NoStrings

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 01:16 AM

If you haven't yet, you should soon be contacted by your Pacific Cup inspector. The assignments ave been handed out, and your inspector should be used as a resource if you have any preparation questions. In the meantime, download the Category 1 OSRs and start checking boxes! Good luck, be safe out there, and have fun.

#40 Boomberries

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 05:11 PM

Registration has topped out with over 70 boats, doing the 2,070 mile race to beautiful Hawaii.

 

I am looking forward to doing the Pacific Cup Race, next year. It won`t be my longest passage, but it will be my longest race, thus far.



#41 Roleur

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 01:00 AM

Alrighty.  This is the 6 months to Pacific Cup post!  It's 2014 so we can talk about racing to Hawaii this year.  

 

Looks like we will have a full house for 2014.  74 entries right now.  The list of one-design unofficial races is impressive:

5 SC 50's

3 J/125's

3 Hobie 33's

3 SC 27's

3 Moore 24's

 

Perhaps the most interesting new boat is Caro, the brand new Botin 65 that just set a new ARC course record.  

 

I'm most excited about the 18 Double-handed entries!  In 2012 there were only 6.  10 DH's 30 feet and under.  Seems likely they will split the DH fleet into two classes and start them on 2 different days, no?  War Pony, the Farr 36, is going DH now?  That will be exciting.  Green Buffalo vs. Eclipse for the corrected time DH win?  

 

After a few weeks off, we are back to sailing practice on Saturday with our January Icicle Series kicking off on Galveston Bay.  



#42 RocNoggin

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 05:17 AM

how did you do in the Harvest Moon Regatta?



#43 Roleur

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 01:39 PM

Harvest Moon - Short Answer:

  • We go pretty well in a straight line
  • We can't gybe the big chute for shit
  • Hand steering (well) for 21 hours with 3 drivers is harder than I thought
  • While sailing well above our weight at 3am, we wrapped the chute for good around the forestay
  • We need a spinnaker net
  • Our troubles were less expensive than others (blown out chutes, torn chutes, broken mast, etc.)
  • We finished around mid-fleet on corrected time
  • It was great prep for Pac Cup

The long answer is here:

 

Harvest Moon Wrap-up



#44 frozenhawaiian

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 08:11 PM

god I wish I could find a ride for the race this year. 



#45 NoStrings

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 12:39 AM

War Pony is going to be a handful considering that it takes 5 people on the rail to hold it down with the frac. kite up. Total crew weight this summer will be around 275 lbs, dripping wet. The SC27s have a couple of strong teams. Once GB gets rollin', they easily sail to their rating, and Jim has only done this 15X. My money is on Thirsty...again. The Figaro could be competitive if they pick the right lane.

#46 Heriberto

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 03:22 PM

I envy the sailors on at least one boat. The fun will be universal, but the results are all about the rating, and it seems a little complicated....



#47 Roleur

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 01:56 AM

5 months to go!  This past weekend was Pacific Cup Academy #3 at the race host Richmond Yacht Club.  Chris & I made it over SF Bay for the seminar, met a bunch of folks, both those signed up for 2014 and veterans.  We also snapped a few photos of a few of the 2014 Double-Handed entries.  I wrote a short blog post about it here:

 

Pacific Cup Academy

 

This is War Pony, the Farr 36, that is racing Double-Handed with a co-ed crew.  Did you know War Pony rates faster than a J/125 and a Class 40?

 

photo.jpg



#48 Roleur

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 05:48 PM

A couple of interesting changes to the entry list:

 

The Erkelens have swapped out the Moore 24 for a Davidson 30?  Anyone know the history of that boat.  From the pic' it doesn't exactly look like a downwind flyer. 

Greg Nelsen is now in with the Azzura 310.  Cool boat.  Has it gone to Hawaii before? 

Terremoto, one the Riptide 35's is now in.  I believe that boat has gone to Hawaii 3 times previously, but 2 of them were Vic-Maui's.  Nice to see them back against a bigger fleet.

Sweet Okole, photographed in my blog above is now in for another round. 

There is a late model Andrews 28 signed up.  Cool boat.  Has this design ever been offshore?  Not doubting it, but I don't think it has much of a track record to know about performance offshore.

 

There are now 22 DH boats.  That must be a record.  Will we end up with 3 DH divisions and 3 starts? 

 

4 months till go time!



#49 solosailor

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 02:24 AM

Azzura 310.  Cool boat.  Has it gone to Hawaii before? 

Yes, it did a 10+ day DH PacCup.......     that was when it weighed 500-600lbs more    ;)



#50 solosailor

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 02:38 AM

I'm thinking the Davidson 30 will be tough to beat if it has the rating I recall it has.



#51 Heriberto

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 04:26 PM

It's not a "Davidson" 30. It's a Donovan 30.... You are right, it isn't a downwind flyer.

 

:rolleyes:



#52 nwrig

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:04 AM

Maybe we can find that plane out there...



#53 Roleur

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 11:16 AM

Have any of you had your boat weighed for the race yet? How did it go? Any surprises?

As an "out of towner" we don't weigh-in until June 21st.

#54 VALIS

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 06:43 PM

Is anyone from the PNW sailing down to San Francisco?  VALIS will be sailing south (from Friday Harbor) on or around June 1.

 

For what it's worth, I would be happy to run a SSB test/practice schedule while we're heading south. I have no idea how many boats will be using SSB, but I assume that the majority will choose satphone instead.  VALIS is comms boat again (actually, we will be running the morning check-in, and Cayenne will be running the afternoon informal "Children's Hour" net).



#55 JSoup

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 04:01 AM

Valis - we will have a sat phone, but would love to listen in to test our ssb receiver if end up running a test, so please keep us updated. Thanks

Eric
Free Bowl of Soup

#56 NoStrings

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 04:36 AM

Hey Paul, I just ay kibbitz for grins. Let us know what channel eh?

Nick

#57 Roleur

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 08:03 PM

We are under the 3 month to go mark.  Hard to believe it's been almost 2 years since the last Pac Cup.  Shearwater goes on a truck this weekend, headed to Richmond where she will wait patiently for the big day.  No more 3 hour drives to Houston to work on the boat!  Now we have 3 hour flights instead...  Oof. 

 

What's the latest news? 



#58 BobJ

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 09:51 PM

Yeah, the PacCup forum is daid - DAID I tell 'ya.

 

The first OYRA race is this Saturday, out and back to the sea buoy fka the SF Lightship.  It will be the first time I've sailed with my PacCup DH partner.  I plan to work with some of the new gear and try not to focus on winning our division in this race - we'll see how that goes!

 

I hope the trip out West goes smoothly for Shearwater.  Be sure to look us up when you're in town.



#59 pogen

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 09:53 PM

Cool kids are on the SSS forum now.



#60 NoStrings

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 10:18 PM

Yeah, the PacCup forum is daid - DAID I tell 'ya.
 
The first OYRA race is this Saturday, out and back to the sea buoy fka the SF Lightship.  It will be the first time I've sailed with my PacCup DH partner.  I plan to work with some of the new gear and try not to focus on winning our division in this race - we'll see how that goes!
 
I hope the trip out West goes smoothly for Shearwater.  Be sure to look us up when you're in town.


The forum may be dead, but the behind the scenes email glut in the inspector world is alive and well.

#61 BobJ

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 10:23 PM

What are the most frequent problems or misunderstandings?

 

I haven't talked to anyone about it but I'm just about ready and will get a hold of my inspector shortly.



#62 Bulbhunter

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 11:57 PM

The quote I got for shipping back to California (San Diego), given having a trailer, was about $5,000. $20K would be a non-starter for us. Our boat is a lot shorter though, and would impact the price.


Make sure you check out Pogen's link regarding shipping. His $19k is all up, but only $8k was the actual Matson freight. The rest was all the before and after costs associated with a Matson shipping. Great info!

 

Pogen what boat was that for? We shipped the O34 back on a borrowed J105 trailer. We did the haul out in some hole in the wall spot in Waikiki after we dropped the rig our selves, paid a local with a big truck to drag it down the street and park it in the Matson yard. I sorta recall sending the trailer over and bring it back was like 5K. I think we had like an inch to spare on the height to fit it through the door on the ship.



#63 NoStrings

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 12:09 AM

BobJ, here are the big ones:

1). antenna feed line. Don't try to get away with RG-58 like someone did in '12 on his Baltic. Hey, it worked just fine, but now its a DSQ.
2). Anchor rodes gotta be nylon eh? Don't try that floating Samson Ultra Blue 3shit on us. We're on to you! If you need a second anchor/rode, I'm willing to loan you one. Just ask.
3). Water tanks...you need two...or one tank that is divided in two. IOW, no single point H2O failures. If anyone wants to borrow a bladder, PM me. I have two of them.

I have a personal thing about working bilge pumps...an artifact of 2010.


All joking aside guys, If you're short of something, drop me a line. I'll even loan you a MOM if you get it recertified. You just need to get the stuff back to me.

Cheers,

Nick

#64 NoStrings

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 01:25 AM


The quote I got for shipping back to California (San Diego), given having a trailer, was about $5,000. $20K would be a non-starter for us. Our boat is a lot shorter though, and would impact the price.


Make sure you check out Pogen's link regarding shipping. His $19k is all up, but only $8k was the actual Matson freight. The rest was all the before and after costs associated with a Matson shipping. Great info!
 
Pogen what boat was that for? We shipped the O34 back on a borrowed J105 trailer. We did the haul out in some hole in the wall spot in Waikiki after we dropped the rig our selves, paid a local with a big truck to drag it down the street and park it in the Matson yard. I sorta recall sending the trailer over and bring it back was like 5K. I think we had like an inch to spare on the height to fit it through the door on the ship.

I think pogen paid for a house to get Temerity from the Oakland terminal to Svends.

#65 BobJ

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 02:55 AM

"If anyone wants to borrow a bladder, PM me. I have two of them."

 

 

That's impressive and having an extra one could certainly be useful on long watches.  However a bladder is not something I'd care to borrow.



#66 NoStrings

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 03:24 AM

An H2O bladder...what are you doing to me here? I'm trying to be helpful.

#67 BobJ

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 03:58 AM

:D  Yankin' yer chain.

 

 

It's April 15th and tomorrow is the first day of the rest of my life.



#68 solosailor

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 12:24 AM

Water tanks...you need two...or one tank that is divided in two. IOW, no single point H2O failures. If anyone wants to borrow a bladder, PM me. I have two of them.

"Replacing OSR 3.21.1: Drinking Water Tanks: Water storage shall be arranged so that failure of any component (tank, pump, and hose) will not cause loss of more than half the total supply. The remaining water may be stored in suitable and properly stowed portable containers, such as plastic bottled water. "    

 

So it sounds like you need one water tank, no larger than half the total supply and the rest in portable containers.   I'm going for the minimum since I only need to carry 15g per/person = 30 gallons total so one small bladder and the rest in 1g off the shelf bottles.

 

How big of a "water" bladder do you have to loan?  

 

antenna feed line. Don't try to get away with RG-58 like someone did in '12 on his Baltic. Hey, it worked just fine, but now its a DSQ.

Here are the PacCup cable specs:  (Added Feb 1) Add to OSR 3.29.1(b)iii: Cable with a feedline loss of 50% will be allowed (eg, RG8X “mini 8” up to 90 ft. long) if the masthead antenna is at least 36” tall (rather than 15” stated above) with a specified gain of approximately 3 db (eg, 1⁄2 wave model). Competitors are advised that a cable run of over 50 ft. of cable RG8X, or a feedline loss of over 40%, may not be acceptable for other races under the current Offshore Special Regulation 3.29. 



#69 NoStrings

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 06:17 AM

Greg, I have two 26 gal. bags. One is spoken for.

#70 solosailor

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 03:32 PM

Thanks…..    I've actually already have one that size.   Looks like I'm going to have to buy the smallest available which is 12-13g.   



#71 NoStrings

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 01:39 AM

Solosailor,
I actually have a smaller one too that I'm willing to loan you.

#72 solosailor

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 02:33 AM

Sweet….    now I just need to decide if I'm still racing    :(



#73 JSoup

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 06:15 PM

I read somewhere on here that in a past Pacific Cup several boats got together and rented a crane to unstep their masts in Honolulu before going to Keehi for the haul out.  Is anyone interested in doing that this year?  Our mast is easy and it's hard to justify the $500 Keehi charges.  $500 is small potatoes in this whole thing, but there are an awful lot of small potatoes! 

 

Thanks - Eric



#74 SMBReno

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 01:49 AM

I'd be interested. Especially if it could single ooint lift the boat (4500 lbs).

#75 NoStrings

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 03:18 AM

Ask Ryan Breymaier whom he dealt with. If enough of you get together, it'll be worth it from what he said earlier.

#76 solosailor

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 05:08 PM

Ryan said the used the end of the marina, undeveloped section, to bring in a crane to deal with the trimarans mast.   As I recall the section is fenced off?   However he also said he didn't get permission to do it.    I can't imagine a bunch of 25-30ft boats and trailers all waiting in line to unstep masts and picks boats wouldn't raise a lot of eyebrows and likely result in the operation getting stopped during the process.    Would be nice if it could work as I would love to single point pic my boat (my mast is deck stepped and easy to drop sans crane).



#77 rmb

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 06:04 PM

here is the contact for the crane.  ask for Brad to be the operator.

 

The transpac organisers had a key to the fenced in area at the end of the pier, but since it is Hawaiians who organise it they may not be amenable to taking business away from the yard, even though the prices are very high.

 

The rate for a boom truck with operator is $200.00 hour with a 4 hour minimum port-to-port.
 
Payment is due upon completion of job.
 
Should you have any questions or concerns please do not hesitate to contact us.
 
 
Sincerely,
 
Tammy Woods
Branch Manager / Dispatcher - Hawaii
Doc Bailey Cranes & Equipment of Hawaii Inc.
Hawaii Office
Phone: (808)545-4884 Fax: (808)520-2084


#78 BobJ

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 04:56 PM

I agree with solo, if "several boats" was actually one boat without permission, I think that's too high a risk to count on it.

 

I was a bit put off by the logistics guys at the January PacCup seminar who were there to sell their wares.  They were pushing Pasha hard (vs. Matson) and came across with much of a take-it-or-leave-it tone.  Nonetheless, perhaps the better play is to get the PacCup organizers involved in going to KMC asking for a better deal.  "Many of the racers are organizing their own group to get this done but we'd like to give you a chance to keep the business" (etc.)  In their defense, I suspect part of the problem is different expectations between skippers and the yard about the derigging prep.  Those of us who do a lot of our own work are paying the price for the owners who don't know the difference between a deck stepped and keel stepped mast (etc.)

 

It also appears PCYC is not as involved as they used to be in helping with this aspect of the planning.



#79 JSoup

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 09:08 PM

I'm with BobJ on this, negotiating with Keehi would be the best solution. We'd be happy to hire a crane, but not unless it was in the up and up. We are not going to sneak around on some abandoned dock... If there is any reading this who is more familiar with Keehi, is there someone we could approach? When I called awhile back to make some preliminary arrangements. I was told, very nicely, that the mast unstep would be $500 whether it was prepped or not. That just seems a little silly to us as we enjoy doing much of our own work.

#80 Village Idiot

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 09:27 PM

I'm with BobJ on this, negotiating with Keehi would be the best solution. We'd be happy to hire a crane, but not unless it was in the up and up. We are not going to sneak around on some abandoned dock... If there is any reading this who is more familiar with Keehi, is there someone we could approach? When I called awhile back to make some preliminary arrangements. I was told, very nicely, that the mast unstep would be $500 whether it was prepped or not. That just seems a little silly to us as we enjoy doing much of our own work.


After you motor back into Keehi and then spend 10 minutes there, the entire place will feel like an abandon dock, and that dock will sound more appealing. Sad to report, there is not a single redeeming quality about that situation, unless something has changed in the last couple years. It's hot and gross and dirty and shitty, and unfun and ghetto, and dicey outside the gate and inside the gate

Btw, just about the time it's your turn to do something in the yard, it will be break time and then lunch time, and then early after lunch break time...

Love that place.

#81 solosailor

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 09:59 PM

Thank god I have a deck stepped mast……       and will drop freehand or with a gin-pole.



#82 BobJ

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 10:27 PM

How about the Phoenician at Kalaeloa/Ko'Olina?  It's maybe 15 nm farther but I've heard good things from the SHTP skippers who have hauled there.  Newer and nicer.

 

http://www.thephoeni.../price_list.htm

 

 

What's needed here is a little competition.



#83 solosailor

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 10:52 PM

Or is it a Rum-pole in Hawaii?

 

I'd go the extra miles.   I was there with Pegasus 77' when they 1st opened and it was much nicer as I recall.



#84 DWD

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 12:20 AM

I'm with BobJ on this, negotiating with Keehi would be the best solution. We'd be happy to hire a crane, but not unless it was in the up and up. We are not going to sneak around on some abandoned dock... If there is any reading this who is more familiar with Keehi, is there someone we could approach? When I called awhile back to make some preliminary arrangements. I was told, very nicely, that the mast unstep would be $500 whether it was prepped or not. That just seems a little silly to us as we enjoy doing much of our own work.

There's no negotiating with Keehi and you won't get out for less than $1k. I did all the de-rigging and trailer loading/prep for my 32' after the 2012 Pac Cup, was told up front the cost for haul and crane would be around $700, and after a hot, dirty day in their shitty, dirty yard I went upstairs to pay the bill and was handed a bill for around $1k. This talk about a crane at some abandoned dock - don't forget the tow a few blocks to the shipping dock ($600), and whether those guys will go someplace else other than Keehi. They supposedly have permits for the few block transport. I can imagine them saying they can't go anywhere besides Keehi.



#85 solosailor

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 04:02 AM

Here is their rate sheet:

 

http://www.keehimari...MCYARDRATES.pdf

 

I'm showing $405 to pull my boat.    I won't use crane services luckily so that's a huge savings.    Last round I rental a truck and put a ball on the bumper myself so that rate was cheap too.   You can rent an pickup for $80-150.   Just checked rates for a 14' Uhaul with 10k towing capacity for $40 plus $1.20 per/mile.    



#86 solosailor

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 04:09 AM

And Keehi Marine is very close to the Maston drop yard.



#87 SMBReno

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 03:12 PM

We were planning to drop the rig ourselves and trailer the boat. Does Matson allow you to bring the trailer into their terminal yourself? I don't want to soak my trailer to ramp so lifting only option. Sailing back looking more attractive....

#88 SMBReno

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 05:21 PM

OK, I called Matson to amplify the information on their 2012 letter explaining costs. Here's what I learned:

  • 7-8 days shipping from Oakland to Honolulu.
  • Moki 278 Departs Oakland on 17 July 2014 to Honolulu via Long Beach - 7-8 days total, should arrive 21-22 July
  • 3 days free storage of  trailer in Honolulu before you accrue storage costs
  • You can both deliver and pickup trailer in both ports - in auto lot
  • In addition to the boat/trailer cube dimensions, they need the length, width, height and weight of the empty trailer.

Send your proposed date of trailer pickup and above data to conventional@matson.com or call (888) 363-8766

 

I'll continue to contribute to this thread as I learn more. For what it's worth I calculated the cost of shipping my Andrews 28 via Matson at $5,011 (drop keel saves some $).



#89 solosailor

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 05:28 PM

Here is a rundown of the dates I got from Maston with some additional dates/info.   Be aware of the available to pickup date as you can't get the trailer until after the unloading on Oahu.

 

Oakland empty trailer drop by June 30th.  Ship leaves July 3rd.   Trailer AVAILABLE for pickup in Hawaii July 14th.

or

Oakland empty trailer drop by July 14th.  Ship leaves July 17rd.   Trailer AVAILABLE for pickup in Hawaii July 28th.

 

Hawaii Boat/Trailer drop July 24th.  Ship leaves July 26th

or 

Hawaii Boat/Trailer drop Aug. 7th.  Ship leaves Aug. 9th



#90 Roleur

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 11:51 PM

Shearwater was loaded on a truck today in Texas.  With luck she will be in Richmond on Friday.  

 

n3q9lh.jpg



#91 Great Red Shark

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:06 AM

We did the haul out in some hole in the wall spot in Waikiki after we dropped the rig our selves...

If by "hole in the wall" you meant the old Ala Wai Marine (across the bridge from the WYC) then you might want to know, - it's Gone. Closed & Bulldozed. Nada. Zip. Bingo. Nothin' there.

#92 Great Red Shark

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:11 AM

After you motor back into Keehi and then spend 10 minutes there, the entire place will feel like an abandon dock, and that dock will sound more appealing. Sad to report, there is not a single redeeming quality about that situation, unless something has changed in the last couple years. It's hot and gross and dirty and shitty, and unfun and ghetto, and dicey outside the gate and inside the gate

Btw, just about the time it's your turn to do something in the yard, it will be break time and then...

Nope, not much has changed down there. This just about covers it. With the closure of the Ala Wai Marine (for smaller yachts) and 'Tuna Packers' - (for commercial fishing boats in Kewalo) Keehi is just about the only game in town and they'd much rather pull a 90-foot steel long-liner than some fussy 34-foot "yacht" - and they don't mind letting you know it.

#93 BobJ

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 04:16 PM

So is the Phoenician a viable alternative?



#94 Great Red Shark

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 05:44 PM

The Phoenician is a smaller, rough little facility located in Kalaeloa Harbor - formerly known as Barber's Point. They do have a lift and cranes, but it's quite a ways from Honolulu harbor, making transport a lot more time-consuming - arguably offsetting any savings for quick haulout work, but yes, that is still in operation. Or at least it was when I was down there last month.

#95 BobJ

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:10 AM

Thanks GRS.

 

Those who did it last time - what is a realistic timeline in the yard, assuming it's Keehi and they pull the rig?

 

We're likely to finish 7/20-21.  Sail to Keehi 7/23?  Trailer available at Matson 7/24 at 0800 per Matson's interactive schedule (or 7/28 per solo, which looks wrong).  Awards Party is 7/25.  Tentative flights home are 7/29.  Is that do-able if the trailer is available 7/24?

 

Or should I take it easy and aim for the next ship and for me, a later flight?



#96 SMBReno

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:37 AM

Bob, the Oakland shipment on the 17th goes to Long Beach then to Honolulu. The total transit time listed is just the time at sea. They then unload containers and freezers at one pier, and only after that autos and trailers on Pier 2 (according to Chris from Matson). So availability may vary from the interactive schedule unless you can freeze the trailer and call it "steak". The auto storage cost is nominal compared to the hemorrhage from the other thousand cuts, don't know about cost for trailer storage at Matson- will call tomorrow and try to verify pickup dates and storage costs....

 

Solo's dates, albeit realistic based on logistics, do make for some difficult planning of where to keep boat and trailer between pickup and delivery. So much for the restful Hawaiian vacation.



#97 BobJ

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:46 AM

I think we get three free days of trailer storage w/Matson (free is relative).

 

So the trailer availability on 7/28 is more realistic.  That makes the days between finishing and the yard more relaxed for sure, especially if it's a slow race.

 

Can anyone guess the timeline in the yard?  Daughter's wedding is making this look like a real stretch . . .



#98 GregC

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 04:15 AM

We did the haul out in some hole in the wall spot in Waikiki after we dropped the rig our selves...

If by "hole in the wall" you meant the old Ala Wai Marine (across the bridge from the WYC) then you might want to know, - it's Gone. Closed & Bulldozed. Nada. Zip. Bingo. Nothin' there.

So, could we bring in a crane here and pull at least the smaller trailerable boats? Too bad the WYC hoist isn't larger....

See y'all in July at RYC,

Greg



#99 solosailor

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 03:54 PM

Solo's dates, albeit realistic based on logistics, do make for some difficult planning of where to keep boat and trailer between pickup and delivery. So much for the restful Hawaiian vacation.

My dates came right from the horses mouth and I prodded for the most accurate dates I could get.



#100 solosailor

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 04:08 PM

Speaking of dates.     I was trying to get a confirmation on a starting date, or at least close to it.    Doublehanders have usually started on the 1st day or two, correct?     The response I got back from the PacCup was that my boat was to fast and that they though I would start after Tues….   wow.    Hard to plan around unknown dates.      

 

I also asked about ratings because it would be nice to know if I can be competitive or not.     I was told that they might have more information after the next PHRF meeting on the 24th, enough data to put together draft division breaks.

 

However when I requested a copy of my PHRF that was done a month ago (and I heard back the downwind # that cost me another 5.75 hours to hawaii) I was told that they are holding them until mid-May to compare them all together (except those out of towner's that aren't planning on getting ratings until June).  I thought the Certified version were calc'd on formulas based on actual measurements but from what I'm hearing there is still quite a subjective slant to them.     

The PHRF Committee hasn't released any Certified PHRF Certificates yet.  They are holding on to them until all the Pac Cup boats applications are in

so they can review them all together.   I believe Jim Antrim has been keeping the Pac Cup people in the loop and they are aware that no one has a Certified PHRF Certificate yet.  Hopefully the certificates will be released Mid May.

 







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