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Please keep multis out of the Hobart.

Way too embarrasing.

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#1 auscat

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:19 AM

The start of the Syd -Hobart is a bit of an institution on boxing day but fair dinkum I'm ready to start playing golf after what we,I mean some of us saw.Imagine the lack of coverage multis would get.As someone said in another thread the CYC has got to be one of the most backward clubs around.
Time to go back to the cricket.

#2 Keith

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:33 AM

When the Sydney to Hobart boys figure out a tracker, and good coverage, then I will be back, hoping its before 2025.

Hey, worlds U20 ice hockey starts boxing day at 01:30 PST..... Some of the best hockey going.... and even better with the NHL strike.

Go Canada Go!!!

#3 captcool

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:35 AM

Yes one could be mistaken for thinking there were only two or maybe three boats in the race.

#4 dave202

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 06:01 AM

Gotta love the "EXPERT" commentary, dumbed down for the idiots, "front" sails? Talking about Ragamuffin Loyal for 5 minutes then realising they are showing Lahana! One idiot said that Wild Oats would have their new "main" sail up at some stage during the race...morons...
I'd love to see KAZ and TVS embarrass the "fastest sailing boat in the world" on national TV
Rant Over B)

#5 auscat

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 06:05 AM

Must say though that Oats looked bloody good charging down the harbour, almost multi speed,almost.

#6 jayson

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 06:55 AM

Must say though that Oats looked bloody good charging down the harbour, almost multi speed,almost.



Almost multi speed ? Pah
At the start of the bris to Glad we were trying to keep up with TA in my powerboat . Had 26 kts on the GPS and they pulled away with ease up on 1 hull ..... And that was in about 12 kts of wind ...

CYCA need to get with the times , modern multi's are as safe if not safer than monos .

#7 auscat

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 07:14 AM

Fair comment Jayson,almost Farrier trailable speeds might be more appropriate :P .The ORMA 60's would be hull down by now.
If oats got out in 6min I reckon the big tri's could do it in 4.Gonna cost a lot more for the choppers to keep up.

#8 Borderline

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 07:19 AM

TVS is very keen to watch the start and finish of next years hobart race. and as we don't get to see it online we may just have to come and watch it live

#9 auscat

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 07:27 AM

TVS is very keen to watch the start and finish of next years hobart race. and as we don't get to see it online we may just have to come and watch it live


The coverage you guys provide of every event you are involved with is way better than comercial crap any day.Bring it on.Might even get Langman off that mono nunga of his.

#10 Borderline

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 08:15 AM

He has built a new main for TA. We thought he was going to do this one.
We don't want to piss on anyones parade but it seems fairly clear that the CYCA and wild oats are the only ones that are allowed to march up front and the rest of the fleet just pick up the shit in there wake.

#11 Y-Bar

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:07 PM

At least I hope it will convince Langman to keep the tri instead of making some super mono as first reported.
It makes me embarrased to think this is aus top sailing event. These tossers should take a good look at the Vendee to see what a real yacht race web site looks like.
Worst S2H coverage ever.
I was glad I taped it and cut all the ads making better viewing.
With you on WO reaching up the harbour Auscat.
The OA form is more exciting than the race.
Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to all.

#12 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:42 PM

TVS is very keen to watch the start and finish of next years hobart race. and as we don't get to see it online we may just have to come and watch it live


let us know here with an email to clean at sailinganarchy dot com. we are really going to have to get down there after three straight years of continually sliding 'official' coverage, someone's gotta do it right. where better then from TVS

At least I hope it will convince Langman to keep the tri instead of making some super mono as first reported.
It makes me embarrased to think this is aus top sailing event. These tossers should take a good look at the Vendee to see what a real yacht race web site looks like.
Worst S2H coverage ever.
I was glad I taped it and cut all the ads making better viewing.
With you on WO reaching up the harbour Auscat.
The OA form is more exciting than the race.
Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to all.


Any chance you can post it to the web somewhere?

seriously, if anyone has the video of the start, please let me know.

#13 eric e

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:05 AM

TVS is very keen to watch the start and finish of next years hobart race. and as we don't get to see it online we may just have to come and watch it live


ask channel 7 if they would like to rent vodafone

as an on the water camera boat

it could loiter around the front of the fleet taking pics and videos :D

#14 Try Flying

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:27 AM

Couple years back I acted as cameraman for another Anarchist and were told that we were not "under any circumstances" allowed to transmit our video live on the net. We were setup with live streaming capability but the big boys at Channel 7 want to have the exclusive rights. Pity they can't deliver!

Let SBS do the coverage ... if it was half as good as they do the Tour de France then it would be awesome.

As to Multis in the SH ... its their party, lets start our own... I'd suggest a Pitwater to Hobart would be an appropriate alternative and it avoids the issue of trying to piss on their parade. Do better web coverage and I'd wager you will see those same helicopters turn left as the mono fleet heads south to catch a look at the big multis giving chase at speed (BTW Pitwater is 12 or so nm north of Sydney heads for the non locals and is multi friendlier)

Turn that old proverb around.."if you can't join them then beat them" With the poor coverage of the true fleet in the SH the opportunity to do a better job is there for the taking.

Remember that th SH started with just a couple of boats out on a Xmas cruise.. A multi event coiuld also grow ... someone just needs to want to do it

Cheers

Ps I unfortunately won't be able to participate in my TT720 :)

#15 Oxygen Mask

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:02 PM

Couple years back I acted as cameraman for another Anarchist and were told that we were not "under any circumstances" allowed to transmit our video live on the net. We were setup with live streaming capability but the big boys at Channel 7 want to have the exclusive rights. .....


How is that legal?

#16 rob d

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:49 PM

Next year the MOD 70's will be on their World Tour. I can't find it on their web page now, but earlier they were coming to Sydney towards the end of the year and their course was going around the bottom of mainland Australia. I guess that means they will be in Bass Straight? Hopefully Channel 10 gives some coverage as a competitor station. It would be nice if there was some overlap with the big boat series. I can't find the dates on their site anymore.

#17 auscat

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 12:16 AM

Well acording to ch7 this morning wild oats is the fastest most advanced sailing boat in the world :lol: .Gotta love it.

#18 Tasj

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:47 AM

seriously, if anyone has the video of the start, please let me know.


well I posted about it in the syd-hobart thread, and tried to send you a PM but it said you couldn't receive new messages
:rolleyes: The circus truly is in town.

#19 Try Flying

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:14 AM


Couple years back I acted as cameraman for another Anarchist and were told that we were not "under any circumstances" allowed to transmit our video live on the net. We were setup with live streaming capability but the big boys at Channel 7 want to have the exclusive rights. .....


How is that legal?


Simple... We were on a media boat provided by the CYC and were accredited media so you have to play by their rules. On top of that only accredited media boats or competators are allowed inside the exclusion zone setup in Sydney Harbour for the duration of the leg within the harbour until they break out into the Tasman proper (point Zulu?) and this is strictly enforced by water police and black belaclava clad boys on fast zodiacs... no exceptions!

Now if we multihullers are serious about a Sydney / Hobart style ocean race I stick by my suggestion that a Pittwater to Hobart run on boxing day would win lots of following especially if the multis were fully teched out and had a good website and live reporting. Reporting on the mono fleet as you were passing would also win followers as there is practically zero coverage of any of the rest of the fleet and its the one boat wildoats show every year...boring!

Number one thing that would need to be strictly adhered to is that only ocean capable (and proven) boats should be allowed to enter. Start the race on a proper footing and avoid feeding the fire of anti multi sentiment and it would be a winner in the media. The only channel in Oz that is likely to do a proper job of coverage is SBS (similar to PBS in the US) IMHO

So the question remains are there a minimum of 2 boats interested/capable of such a race? If so what are we waiting for? Instead of the annual winge about not being invited to the CYC party, whats it going to take to start our own "classic" race?

Cheers

Mark

#20 auscat

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:26 AM



Couple years back I acted as cameraman for another Anarchist and were told that we were not "under any circumstances" allowed to transmit our video live on the net. We were setup with live streaming capability but the big boys at Channel 7 want to have the exclusive rights. .....


How is that legal?


Simple... We were on a media boat provided by the CYC and were accredited media so you have to play by their rules. On top of that only accredited media boats or competators are allowed inside the exclusion zone setup in Sydney Harbour for the duration of the leg within the harbour until they break out into the Tasman proper (point Zulu?) and this is strictly enforced by water police and black belaclava clad boys on fast zodiacs... no exceptions!

Now if we multihullers are serious about a Sydney / Hobart style ocean race I stick by my suggestion that a Pittwater to Hobart run on boxing day would win lots of following especially if the multis were fully teched out and had a good website and live reporting. Reporting on the mono fleet as you were passing would also win followers as there is practically zero coverage of any of the rest of the fleet and its the one boat wildoats show every year...boring!

Number one thing that would need to be strictly adhered to is that only ocean capable (and proven) boats should be allowed to enter. Start the race on a proper footing and avoid feeding the fire of anti multi sentiment and it would be a winner in the media. The only channel in Oz that is likely to do a proper job of coverage is SBS (similar to PBS in the US) IMHO

So the question remains are there a minimum of 2 boats interested/capable of such a race? If so what are we waiting for? Instead of the annual winge about not being invited to the CYC party, whats it going to take to start our own "classic" race?

Cheers

Mark


That makes a whole lot of sense,are you sure your in the right place?
I reckon a good place to start looking for those boats would be the 3 peaks race.That is a group of very well run multis down there.Pretty sure there are some Kiwis be up for it too.

#21 Try Flying

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:51 AM

Probably not Auscat :) But SA is like channel 16 on the VHF ... call out to get attention then retire offline to make it happen. ... that is if anyone is serious.

There is a lot of expertise lurking in here from race officials to racers.....so the serious question remains.... whats it going to take?

Because if you want to get it done for 26/12/2013... ya better start planning now.

#22 sk8

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:14 AM

. whats it going to take?


"Calling all Sponsors"..
I guess that would be a good start; to get an enthusiastic and generous sponsor,

-Setup a half decent tracker thats not built by a 4y.o.

- Get SBS, SA, & Sailing Chix onto the media coverage, [not the mainstream sailing media that seem to have suffered the same fate as our political journos lately; blinkered and biased IMHO] people that actually have a finger on the pulse at the pointy end of sailing and are not swayed by where their logo is displayed largest

-Find a Host club at the Pittwater end willing to take on the officialdom

-and some mooring and drinking space in Hobart left at the end of the race.. This might be the tricky bit.. Isnt there a few races that end in Hobart around this time?
I guess if its 'first in first served', the multi's wont have mooring problems, it will be the poor little monoslugs that are still mid-Strait that would suffer.. ;)

As far as competitors, first off the top of my head that I'd imagine willing and able would be Sean Langman w' Team Aus, Simon Hull w' TVS from across the ditch (and who doesnt see the appeal in a good Aussie vs Kiwi stoush!?), and theres a healthy handful of F-9's etc that could make it there in speedy plumes of spray too.. as currently shown in the Governors Cup. a spectacular event guaranteed!
And hey, the cabable trailerable competitors could even have their non-sailing partners meet them with their trailers at the finish and then enjoy some touring of Tassie in the summer before heading home at 50 knots after disembarking 'The Spirit'! Win, win..

It would also be another leap forward in positive publicity for the multihull movement, the general ignorant Joe that thinks the S2H is the only race in the world apart from Americas Cups would sit up and take notice of those weird waterworld sailing thingies that fly across the water (sailing circles around 'Old bags of Wheat 12' or whatever) and even if they flip over, they become a stable liferaft instead of sinking to the bottom..

Oh, and last but most vital ingredient needed. Someone that can make ideas actually happen..

Calling all Sponsors!!

#23 Tasj

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:12 AM

-and some mooring and drinking space in Hobart left at the end of the race..


http://www.princeofw...ymarina.com.au/

is never full

#24 Christian

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 06:51 PM


Must say though that Oats looked bloody good charging down the harbour, almost multi speed,almost.



Almost multi speed ? Pah
At the start of the bris to Glad we were trying to keep up with TA in my powerboat . Had 26 kts on the GPS and they pulled away with ease up on 1 hull ..... And that was in about 12 kts of wind ...

CYCA need to get with the times , modern multi's are as safe if not safer than monos .


Some have gotten better safety wise but that statement is absolute BS!

#25 rmb

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 07:48 PM

Next year the MOD 70's will be on their World Tour. I can't find it on their web page now, but earlier they were coming to Sydney towards the end of the year and their course was going around the bottom of mainland Australia. I guess that means they will be in Bass Straight? Hopefully Channel 10 gives some coverage as a competitor station. It would be nice if there was some overlap with the big boat series. I can't find the dates on their site anymore.


world tour is dead. no sponsors

#26 Try Flying

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 07:51 PM

If you want to be taken seriously then an event like the Pitt to Hobart as a race needs to be taken VERY seriously. There are safe monos and safe multis.. but the ocean can kick eithers arse without even breaking a sweat...(I'm so over the my boat is better arguement!)

I'd be suggesting very strict safety rules (Multi applicable) if I was involved and it would not be about letting it turn into a stunt race which could easily turn to tragedy and put the whole multi community backwards 20 years in the eyes of the public.

SK8

Why do you think you need sponsors?
Why do you think you need a host club?

desirable .. yes... necessary ... no

If for example TVS and TA (I only mention these two as they are the ones that come first to mind... I have no connection with them and they may not even be interested in such a venture) want to line up on a given date and race to Hobart for the honor of getting there first and the pleasure of getting a beer paid by the losing crew to the victors... then that only takes a handshake .

As an example of what can be done the HCW24hr race was/is organised by a small handfull of volunteers and a virtual sailing club. It is now co hosted by a bricks and morter club but not the first few years. Aquatic license/insurance and all the officialdom stuff is also sorted. We attract 50-60 boats and is a cat 5n race... all on the smell of an oily rag. (Its a charity event so getting sponsors is easy)

Make the race event for a good cause and you will get plenty of corporate sponsors and media coverage.

If you only want to do it to get a big prize, chunk of tin and rub the likes of WOix noses in it then your just following the current trend of the SH but in a multi.... whats the point?
Rise above the tired trends and create a new "classic"

Cheers

#27 bfp

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 08:31 AM

Coming from the perspective of a multihull owner, a sailor on monohulls as well, and having done a few Hobarts, I cant support the idea of multi's doing the Hobart.

You may all cry blue murder at me, but you are kidding yourselves if you think you "normal' multi's will be as safe as the well prepared monohulls that go to Hobart. I have seen some fairly nasty weather in the Hobart race, and for the last couple of races (since I saw the dark side and started sailing multi's) I have done, at some stage I have found myself thinking that this really isn't a place for multi's.

I have no doubt that the well founded and well prepared multi's, sailed by crew experienced in sailing multi's in really bad conditions, could get the boats through. But I similarly have no doubt that at some stage, at least 1 multi wil get in trouble and more than likely, it will be number of them at the same time. We do not have many ORMA's of MOD70's over here, let alone many sailors as experienced as the Froggies at keeping them going. Mr Go Average in his cruising multihull is not the same thing.

It will be carnage at some stage. You can stop a Benislow when it get rough. It is much harder to control a multihull when it is serious..

#28 BeachbumII

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 09:07 AM

Hey havent you guys heard? This horse is dead.

#29 offtherails

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 09:10 AM

Any boat can come to grief on any the oceans of the world.

But after choc-tops for Cynophobe in the Whitsundays, Le Seur's boat at Townsville; boats capsizing downhill on the race to Gladstone in moderate winds etc - well I think some multi-racers or wannabes must be delusional if thinking their round-the-cans, round-the-islands rocketships would survive a decent East Coast Low down towards Bass Strait - sure the boats like Banque Pop, TVS and Team Australia probably would, and probably would mix it with the best of the monos (the WOXIs and others .. and assuredly go faster than most for most of the time ) , but .. tell 'em they're dreaming to have a race down into those latitudes with little speed-boats just over 9m.

#30 jayson

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:14 AM



Must say though that Oats looked bloody good charging down the harbour, almost multi speed,almost.



Almost multi speed ? Pah
At the start of the bris to Glad we were trying to keep up with TA in my powerboat . Had 26 kts on the GPS and they pulled away with ease up on 1 hull ..... And that was in about 12 kts of wind ...

CYCA need to get with the times , modern multi's are as safe if not safer than monos .


Some have gotten better safety wise but that statement is absolute BS!


Please fill me in on what part of my statement is BS ?

#31 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:46 AM

he meant the bit saying they are safer

#32 Try Flying

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:52 AM

I agree with most of those cautionary comments... and I wouldn't compare a downhill run like the Goveners cup to a S/H hence my opening statement that it would need to be treated seriously and not a free for all stunt in ill prepared boats.

A well founded boat properly prepared and skillfully sailed is as safe as can be expected ... no matter how many hulls IMHO (which is an unqualified opinion to be sure) That is not to say that I would agree that all the boats that do enter the S/H are necessarily ticking all those boxes either.

And although the Orma's are ocean proven racers I would not necessarily say that they were safer than smaller less canvased multis in a big blow... That wing mast is a mighty big unreefable sail.

The tragedy of '98 didnt get blamed on the syle of boat but rather the conditions... sadly past media hype however has shown that if a multi comes to grief (ie capsize) then it is soley the design that is at cause.

Its because of this that such a race needs to have a higher safety standard than even the current S/H inorder to not feed this hype.

I believe the trick is to make strict entry requirements that are multi specific and not driven by hype but rather prudent seamanship.

I'll bow out now as if we are just falling back into boat x is better than boat Y it is a pointless exercise. We have heard all the arguements and counters...and as far as I'm concerned there is truth and fancy on both sides that cloud a meaningfull discussion on the relative merits.

#33 Peccadillo

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:51 AM

If they opened the S2H to multis i'd enter tomorrow! and i think (hope) it will happen one day. but i think the S2H is the wrong place to start. let's get some shorter but still serious ocean races for multis first. three reasons: (1) to show the cyc and other nervous nellies that multis can do this sort of thing well and safely (2) to build a fleet (i suspect there aren't many boats in oz set up for this sort of racing and its not cheap to get to Cat 2, and i don't see many skippers/owners yet who have the desire or commitment to do ocean races) and (3) to build the experience of the crews.

My boat is set up almost to Cat 2 (for 3 Peaks, which is Cat 3 plus extras) and it took time and money. You wouldn't do it if you weren't committed. But that is really a minor point. Properly setting up for ocean racing in Bass Strait and surrounds requires a lot more than safety gear and escape hatches. Everything needs to be set up right and be strong, the boat needs to be strong and seaworthy (i agree with those posters that say that not all off-the-shelf cruisers and round-the buoys racers would be up to it - although some would). The crew need good gear. You need critical spares. And your still trying to go fast so all this stuff is even more costly if it is lightweight too!

But the real key is building experience. We've raced in strong winds in Bass Strait a couple of times, and learn't a lot. But it wasn't too different from what we'd learn't from strong winds inshore. But last year's 3 Peaks, with consistent 50 knots and gusting to 65+ for most of the first leg, well we REALLY learn't a lot from that. But most of us never sail in those sort of conditions let alone race.While Australia has many top multihull sailors, unless u've got a sexy mega-multi, they're probably not going to be in your crew! There's a lot more of that sort of experience in the mono racing community. If i was the CYC, I'd want to see enough experience in the ocean racing multi crews, coz that's where the real safety comes. And the only way to show that is do a range of shorter Cat 2 races imho

#34 Tasman

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 02:48 PM

Agreed Peccadillo, and the Bris to Glad is a long way removed from the S2H. Having experienced a couple of both, and as a confirmed multihull convert, I might still prefer to attempt the Hob on a small mono v. a small multi...

#35 BeachbumII

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 03:52 PM

Wich multi is safe and wich is not, where do you draw the line and by what definition? I would not be crazy enought to take out an 80'ies 3mm-veneer Formula 28 trimaran into the bass straight, but someone surely would. On the other hand Pete Goss completed OSTAR in a Firebird.

#36 Try Flying

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 09:32 PM

+1 Peccadillo

That makes alot of sense so maybe the better proposal would be what would be a good starting point race to setup or are already out there for multis up to the challenge. You mention 3 peaks and that sounds like a perfect starting point.. are there others in Oz?

Be great is there was a list somewhere of all the Cat5n up to Cat2 events that are not mono exclusive today then add new ones in areas/Cats that are lacking. Then you will have a stepping ladder for those that wish to follow.


I do find it funny that people sometimes balk at the cost to get the gear up to a certain Cat level... yet in my view its all good stuff that you really should have on your boat anyway (obviously to the level of where you intend to sail) and infact it is more like a minimum guideline and more gear would be prudent that is probably not listed in the standard forms when it comes to Multis. For example a series drouge with bridle and possibly a sea parachute come to mind..(not sure if these are listed in the blue book) like metioned above something to slow you down.

You right about the penalty of weight versus cost and that is very multi specific seeing as we suffer more than a mono in this regard (% increase of boat displacement taken by stores versus a ballasted boat)

#37 Fuller

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:08 PM

If they opened the S2H to multis i'd enter tomorrow! and i think (hope) it will happen one day. but i think the S2H is the wrong place to start. let's get some shorter but still serious ocean races for multis first. three reasons: (1) to show the cyc and other nervous nellies that multis can do this sort of thing well and safely (2) to build a fleet (i suspect there aren't many boats in oz set up for this sort of racing and its not cheap to get to Cat 2, and i don't see many skippers/owners yet who have the desire or commitment to do ocean races) and (3) to build the experience of the crews.

My boat is set up almost to Cat 2 (for 3 Peaks, which is Cat 3 plus extras) and it took time and money. You wouldn't do it if you weren't committed. But that is really a minor point. Properly setting up for ocean racing in Bass Strait and surrounds requires a lot more than safety gear and escape hatches. Everything needs to be set up right and be strong, the boat needs to be strong and seaworthy (i agree with those posters that say that not all off-the-shelf cruisers and round-the buoys racers would be up to it - although some would). The crew need good gear. You need critical spares. And your still trying to go fast so all this stuff is even more costly if it is lightweight too!

But the real key is building experience. We've raced in strong winds in Bass Strait a couple of times, and learn't a lot. But it wasn't too different from what we'd learn't from strong winds inshore. But last year's 3 Peaks, with consistent 50 knots and gusting to 65+ for most of the first leg, well we REALLY learn't a lot from that. But most of us never sail in those sort of conditions let alone race.While Australia has many top multihull sailors, unless u've got a sexy mega-multi, they're probably not going to be in your crew! There's a lot more of that sort of experience in the mono racing community. If i was the CYC, I'd want to see enough experience in the ocean racing multi crews, coz that's where the real safety comes. And the only way to show that is do a range of shorter Cat 2 races imho

Before you go around canvasing race committees to enter, you really need to have a commitment from half a dozen boats willing to race, or you are wasting your time. If we get accepted, there will be one chance! We can't afford to fuck it up.

#38 eric e

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 04:21 AM

If they opened the S2H to multis i'd enter tomorrow! and i think (hope) it will happen one day. but i think the S2H is the wrong place to start. let's get some shorter but still serious ocean races for multis first. three reasons: (1) to show the cyc and other nervous nellies that multis can do this sort of thing well and safely (2) to build a fleet (i suspect there aren't many boats in oz set up for this sort of racing and its not cheap to get to Cat 2, and i don't see many skippers/owners yet who have the desire or commitment to do ocean races) and (3) to build the experience of the crews.

My boat is set up almost to Cat 2 (for 3 Peaks, which is Cat 3 plus extras) and it took time and money. You wouldn't do it if you weren't committed. But that is really a minor point. Properly setting up for ocean racing in Bass Strait and surrounds requires a lot more than safety gear and escape hatches. Everything needs to be set up right and be strong, the boat needs to be strong and seaworthy (i agree with those posters that say that not all off-the-shelf cruisers and round-the buoys racers would be up to it - although some would). The crew need good gear. You need critical spares. And your still trying to go fast so all this stuff is even more costly if it is lightweight too!

But the real key is building experience. We've raced in strong winds in Bass Strait a couple of times, and learn't a lot. But it wasn't too different from what we'd learn't from strong winds inshore. But last year's 3 Peaks, with consistent 50 knots and gusting to 65+ for most of the first leg, well we REALLY learn't a lot from that. But most of us never sail in those sort of conditions let alone race.While Australia has many top multihull sailors, unless u've got a sexy mega-multi, they're probably not going to be in your crew! There's a lot more of that sort of experience in the mono racing community. If i was the CYC, I'd want to see enough experience in the ocean racing multi crews, coz that's where the real safety comes. And the only way to show that is do a range of shorter Cat 2 races imho


pittwater to hobart may be too much ask

so make it pittwater to melbourne

starting an hour after the monos

then naturally the question will be asked

why stop there...

#39 Tornado_ALIVE

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 05:47 AM

Forget the S2H. How about a race from A to B (Auckland to Bluff). The A2B Inaugural race is schedualed for Waitangi Day, February 6, 2014. This will kick some a$$

http://www.nzherald....jectid=10851886

Race website - http://www.a2b-race.com/


Posted Image

#40 eric e

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 06:17 AM

the west coast of the south island is a pretty unforgiving lee shore

there are a couple harbors...





#41 Peccadillo

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:27 PM

Lots of interesting thoughts. Fuller is right, we will only get one chance to get multis into an existing mono offshore race, and if we get the invite there better be a fleet turn up! Existing offshore races that allow multis in southern oz that I know of are 3 Peaks (Cat 3 plus, virtually Cat 2), Adelaide to Port Lincoln (Cat 3) and Launceston to Hobart (Cat 3 I think; no multis entered last year). Any others? If we were to organise our own, then NSW (pick a start point) to Lord Howe would be great, or any of the other routes that the CYC approves as S2H qualifiers.

I'm inclined to think that initially a Race Committee should have the option to not accept an entry that they consider inappropriate (this would need to be done at the time of submitting an entry so as to not waste the owner's time and money), with maybe a minimum size also. Interested in ideas as to how to do this without causing a shit fight! Perhaps a group of multi sailors with offshore experience could develop some specific criteria.

#42 Ocean View

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:04 PM

Peccadillo
We've raced each other in multis - you won :(

You're forgetting the Brisbane to Gladstone.

As for a S2H multi race

i think that going for a S2h or S2M is to too big a task / ask right now.

would be better to do a Pittswater to Southport race.

Start 1 hour or 2 hours later than the S2S race.

Get the fllet there safely. - FAST :)

Make sure all boats are totally ocean safe.

and build it from there.

S2H is a tough race - it's known for it - so why set up for potential failure / breakages etc.

Many of the previous multi world record attempts have suffered at the hands of the southern ocean or rough seas.

So get the credentials in other ways.

Multis are great boats and lots of fun - but when the sh*&^^t hits the fan - they are not as easy to manage to reduce damage occurring IMO.

If you wanted to reliably sail to Antarctica and back at any-time of the year - would you take a multi or mono?

#43 Keith

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 06:07 PM

/\ /\

Two boat names for you, Geronimo, Big Wave Rider. You can verify the rest of the multihull ocean sailing records here....

http://www.sailspeed...ge-records.html

#44 Ocean View

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:33 PM

Not denying that there are strong boats out there capable of completing it -

But are we talking about a couple of big multis doing the S2H as a "we did it event" ?

Or a race where the number of multis entered is interesting and varied to show off what a bunch of multi's can do in a race.

The issue I have with just having "the big multis" is how many of them would be around and available ?

The s2h has the big monos who get the media's attention and lots of people complain that is all we hear about.
What about the other 75 boats in the race?

Do you want that for the multis as well?

As I see it the real attraction of the race is anyone who has a seaworthy cat 1 prepared mono can enter the race, and if their IRC rating is good, and they sail it fast without breakages - they could potentially be in the medals

And at the very least be able to tick off one of their bucket list items.

Everyone I've talked to who likes ocean / offshore racing has at least 1 x Hobart on their bucket list.

So if you create a multi hull race that is just as competitive and is not going to be limited to very large pockets,

You might create a similar type of event in another place that is more suitable to a wider range of boats and budgets.

#45 ALL AT SEA

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:11 AM

If you wanted to reliably sail to Antarctica and back at any-time of the year - would you take a multi or mono?

Ice Cat? i know that X-S was strengthened and very well prepared, however she was still an exposed sub-40' open bridge-deck cat. With some sensible seamanship she made the return journey, through some less than perfect weather. She also won, from memory, 5 Three Peaks - including the record. Would she make it south (after a bit of TLC)?

There are already multis in the B2G, but this isn't in the same league as the Hobart race. Maybe a S2M or even multis in the M2H (after all, i seem to remember Crowther Spindrift, and maybe Ocean Emu or Spirit of Emu doing the Melbourne Devonport some years ago) would a good starting point.

As noted by others, more harm than good will come from rushing into this, however there doesn't seem to be any gung-ho attitude displayed by any of the current proponents of a Multi S2H. Give it time, do it right. Maybe the 70th Sydney-Hobart is to soon - but then there are many out there with higher hopes and better organisational skills than mine.

#46 Sailabout

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:50 AM

There's no money in or around multi's that why they will never be anywhere, sure they go fast but they take up too much room in a marina
Sponsors dont like them and they are totally useless except a for couple of crew to race them then they die

#47 Sailabout

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:51 AM


Couple years back I acted as cameraman for another Anarchist and were told that we were not "under any circumstances" allowed to transmit our video live on the net. We were setup with live streaming capability but the big boys at Channel 7 want to have the exclusive rights. .....


How is that legal?

Its written on the entry form, without that you wouldnt get most sponsors

#48 eric e

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:54 AM

^
that's just australia

#49 bhyde

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 03:35 PM

There's no money in or around multi's that why they will never be anywhere, sure they go fast but they take up too much room in a marina
Sponsors dont like them and they are totally useless except a for couple of crew to race them then they die


No money? Really. Any of these names ring a bell? Banque Pop, Groupama 3, IDEC, Foncia, PlayStation, Sodebo, B&Q, Jet Services V, etc...

#50 Trovão

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:23 PM

rolex (tittle sponsor of the s2h) doesn't seem to like multis.

the ilhabela sailing week, in brazil, used to have a multihull division for many years.

not so anymore since rolex became the sponsor.

#51 bhyde

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:34 PM

rolex (tittle sponsor of the s2h) doesn't seem to like multis.

the ilhabela sailing week, in brazil, used to have a multihull division for many years.

not so anymore since rolex became the sponsor.


Things might be changing.

http://www.sfgate.com/outdoors/onthewaterfront/article/Rolex-Big-Boat-Series-adds-multihulls-3884566.php

#52 Rohan C

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 01:32 AM

If you wanted to reliably sail to Antarctica and back at any-time of the year - would you take a multi or mono?

Ice Cat? i know that X-S was strengthened and very well prepared, however she was still an exposed sub-40' open bridge-deck cat. With some sensible seamanship she made the return journey, through some less than perfect weather. She also won, from memory, 5 Three Peaks - including the record. Would she make it south (after a bit of TLC)?

There are already multis in the B2G, but this isn't in the same league as the Hobart race. Maybe a S2M or even multis in the M2H (after all, i seem to remember Crowther Spindrift, and maybe Ocean Emu or Spirit of Emu doing the Melbourne Devonport some years ago) would a good starting point.

As noted by others, more harm than good will come from rushing into this, however there doesn't seem to be any gung-ho attitude displayed by any of the current proponents of a Multi S2H. Give it time, do it right. Maybe the 70th Sydney-Hobart is to soon - but then there are many out there with higher hopes and better organisational skills than mine.


On Ocean Emu we did numerous Bass Strait crossings as the boat was built in Launceston along with a 3 Peaks race which included 50 knot winds and snow off the bottom of Tasman Island.

Spirit of Emu also did a number of trips across as well both "cruising" and racing.

At some point there was also a multi class in the M2H west coaster race which Bag's won.

As mentioned a few times above, the first job would be to find out how many boats are capable of doing the race and then work with those owners to work out how to move forward.

#53 deano

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 02:16 AM

3 peaks coverage was on tv 2 weeks ago.

1 boat lost (mono, one a beach).
serious conditions for most of the crews, big seas and high winds, plus 2 poor buggers have to run as well.

credit to those who sign on for this one.

#54 Spargo

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:19 AM

Of the NZ multi's capable of entering, probably only TVS would be willing - Triple 8 is more suited to "inshore" racing and X-Factor is on the market so would be a non contender unless a new owner (me - I wish!) was willing to have a go.

#55 bush sailer

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:39 AM

Not many boats would turn up, maybe 3 or 4 each year at the most. I would probably do one just for the hell of it(if I had a serious offshore boat) but flogging a multi to windward for long periods does not thrill me.
Boats would have to be over say 42' for cat 1 and the cost to prepare and enter would be high. As has already been pointed out there are very few high speed multis that could safely take on a hobart, perhaps the g force schionnings the orma 60s but not many others, even the crowther 50s raw nerve etc would be marginal from a safety aspect.
Perhaps a race from Pitwater to eden at the same time would work. Smaller boats could enter and still have fun passing the hobart fleet. A series may be of interest in the future, eg pitwater to eden, eden to melbourne, gelong week then perhaps 3 peeks for those that are willing.

#56 OZCAT

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:05 AM

In 2005 Raw Nerve attempted the outright Sydney to Hobart record an narrowly missed it when the Derwent shut down for the night (Derwent river glassed out)

http://www.abc.net.a...-record/2129352

#57 eric e

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:45 AM

.
Perhaps a race from Pitwater to eden at the same time would work. Smaller boats could enter and still have fun passing the hobart fleet. A series may be of interest in the future, eg pitwater to eden, eden to melbourne, gelong week then perhaps 3 peeks for those that are willing.


pittwater 2 eden for the smaller multis

pittwarter 2 melbourne? for the bigger

starting an hour after the last monos?

#58 Spargo

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:55 AM

What is the reasoning behind the "Not more than 30.48m LOA" rule? It's not like the two maxi's that still enter (WOX1 / LOYAL) have any real competition for line honours from anything else in the fleet, why not open it to Senso One et al?

Further to that - why aren't Leopard and the boat formerly known as Alfa Romeo II down there more often?

#59 OZCAT

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:58 AM


In 2005 Raw Nerve attempted the outright Sydney to Hobart record an narrowly missed it when the Derwent shut down for the night (Derwent river glassed out)

http://www.abc.net.a...-record/2129352


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#60 auscat

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:37 AM

Fairdinkum this thread has grown some legs.
At the end of the day I don't think there are that many truly interested in the event,if there were it would have happened by now.
There are certainly a lot of boats capable of the race and some crews too,but who's really keen?

#61 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:54 AM

so in the cold hard light of the day it's just a big moan by aggrieved multi fans who can't do it personally,
other than that an opportunity for one or two publicity "attention whores"

what do you think of langamns latest Hobart i'view to again use the tri as a parts-bin for a version of Doug Lords 75' Moth

#62 auscat

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:34 PM

At the end of the day it's not about getting to Hobart,its about knowing when to pull out that shows the quality of the sailor.
In my book anyway.

#63 Trovão

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:03 PM


rolex (tittle sponsor of the s2h) doesn't seem to like multis.

the ilhabela sailing week, in brazil, used to have a multihull division for many years.

not so anymore since rolex became the sponsor.


Things might be changing.

http://www.sfgate.co...lls-3884566.php


rolex (tittle sponsor of the s2h) doesn't seem to like multis.

the ilhabela sailing week, in brazil, used to have a multihull division for many years.

not so anymore since rolex became the sponsor.


Things might be changing.

http://www.sfgate.co...lls-3884566.php


i honestly hope so.

#64 Smooth Cruiser

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 02:04 AM

This thread has turned into a great discussion of this topic (and it was started by Chippy? That must be a first!!) - a topic that often comes up around yacht club bars after a requisite amount of brain lubricant has been consumed, and a topic that often comes up in front of the TV on Boxing Day while watching the S2H start and nursing a big bellyfull of Christmas cheer.

I think a lot of great points have been made so far and most of what would be my two cents worth has already been spent.

A lot of people complain about the management of the S2H and the way the race is run – with all media focus on the lead sponsored boat etc. So why would multi’s want to enter this event unless it is just to prove a point? And is the CYCA really going to sit back and let this point be made in the foreseeable future? Unlikely. So to me this says that multi’s won’t be in the “official” S2H for a long time. So be it.

So an alternative race that captures audience interest sounds like a good alternative. But as others have already said – it is probably unlikely that this can just happen. The S2H took a long time to build to the scale where it attracted a large fleet and a lot of interest and any alternative multi race would also need a long period of development. Other than a TVS / TA match race there really aren’t enough serious ocean racing multi’s that are ready to compete in something of attention grabbing scale.

IMHO you only have to look at the B2G entrants to see this – this is arguably the “pinnacle” of ocean racing that multi’s can contest in Australia and yet the fleet is only between 6-10 boats, some of which are pretty borderline in terms of real ocean going ability. It would seem that most multi owners who have capable ocean going vessels either don’t want to race these type of events, or might want to but don’t feel that their boat/crew are capable or experienced enough.

To me the answer is to build more development type races that ultimately will see multi’s competing in something of the scale of S2H – using these development races to build a pool of capable boats and a pool of ocean racing experienced multihull sailors.

I think offtherails’ post is a really telling one that shows this lack of true multihull ocean racing experience in Australia. While there will always be unexpected failures and unpredictable extreme weather conditions, in essence when we are talking about offshore racing there shouldn’t be monumental stuff ups occurring that endanger lives – such as boats flipping or breaking up. 1998 S2H showed that there is little appetite anywhere for what might be termed extreme survival racing. And yet almost any time that “serious racing” multi’s head out sailing in what are supposed to be fairly mild Cat5 events like ABRW and MIRW, and even WAGS races, let alone Gladstone races, we have seen multi’s upside down and lives put at risk. To consider that this same group of sailors should go out into the Bass Strait seems a bit of a leap. And yes I know this is a big generalisation. I think there are certainly people out there who have the boats and the crew to be ocean racing their multihulls seriously – but at this stage there are only a handful of these and not enough to seriously mount a large ocean racing multi fleet. The best breeding ground at the moment for this certainly seems to be the Three Peaks – I take my hat off to a lot of those guys.

I am entering the Brisbane to Gladstone this year, and my boat has the credentials to be a serious ocean racing multi – but I will be the first to say that neither myself nor my crew are ready for something with the potential for challenging weather conditions such as the S2H. We need a lot of development first.

So to try to sum up what has become a rather long winded post! I would love to see multi’s in the S2H or an alternate event that has the true kudos and appeal to make it a “bucket list” item, but I think we need to develop a circuit of development races first that can build the pool of multi’s and multi sailors who are capable of doing such events. And along the way media and general public interest would also be building. Maybe the way to do this is to build on an existing event, lengthen an exisiting race or race week, incorporate more night racing or to integrate some of the existing events in the sailing calendar to form a more obvious “offshore multihull series”. I am really keen on events such as the upcoming Surf to City as to me these have the potential to be true build up races to something bigger, but maybe we need more integration of these type of events into a series and more support for this from the potential serious offshore multi racing contenders. Maybe we need to ask existing mullti owners and sailors why they don't want to do the existing races and tailor them better to attract more entrants?

#65 Peter Hackett

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 10:09 AM

Nice post Smoothie, and latest list of offshore entries are below FYI. Quality and fleet size is certainly up with B2G, and double this number are doing the inshore race,
Attitude Allan Larkin Schionning Boss Racing Gary Saxby Saxby Chillpill Wayne Bloomer schionning g force Kestrel Richard Jenkins Jenkins McMoggy Alasdair Noble Schiooning Waterline 1350 Rhythmic Phil Day Pescott Romance Kriss Dellit Crowther Windspeed Rushour Drew Carruthers multihull/ rogers

#66 Try Flying

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:18 PM

+1 Smoothie very well put.

I would suggest a race like the Heaven Can Wait 24hr would be a good contender for an entry level event on the long road to serious offshore racing as its Cat5n but inshore so relatively safe. I also belive this year it is moving away from the October long weekend so should not clash with the Lock Crowther reggatta. To date only 3 (none ocean going designs) multis have competed in this event.

Still like to see a Cat5n and above, open to Multis, list compiled and maintained somewhere. Would that be something you could get from YA?

#67 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 11:16 PM

No they don't do that !

you'd get it from the Multuhull Ocean-racing Association, that is the (yet to be) one that would oversee multihull offshore events and eligibilty.

#68 PIL007

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:04 PM

Are we done.
Same place, same time next year....?
over it.

#69 honestjohn

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:19 PM

No they don't do that !

you'd get it from the Multuhull Ocean-racing Association, that is the (yet to be) one that would oversee multihull offshore events and eligibilty.


We still dont have a National multihull association of anytype, inshore or offshore, we have to walk before we can run.




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