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Gunbat Elvis in Ft. Lauderdale to Key West Race. A Rating of 5, Really


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#1 B30

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 07:16 PM

Jason Carol’s Gunboat Elvis just won the the Ft. Lauderdale to Key West Race on corrected time. Jason Carol runs a top notch program in what ever boat he is involved in. He and his crew are very accomplished sailors. I do however have to scratch my head at this corrected time win. How did a 62' boat touted as being the fastest cruising cat around and a monohull race boat killer get such a slow PHRF rating? I race on a Corsair 37' trimaran, also a crusing boat, that does not have nearly the hype, size, or power of a Gunboat and we rate -25 and can win occasionally at that rating. One of the top boats in the New England area is a stock Corsair Dash 750. It is a 25' family pocket cruiser and it also rates 5 sailed by one of the better sailors in the area. Is the million dollar ++ Gunboat 62 really not any faster than the $75,000 Dash?

The results below show Gunboat finishing a little over an hour behind the -87 rating Seacart 30, but correcting almost 3 hours ahead! Over the 160 mile course the Gunboat sailed about 27 seconds a mile slower that the Seacart, yet was owed 93 seconds a mile by it. It seemed impossible for Elvis to lose.

Am I missing something here?



1 Posted Image USA 6204 Elvis Gunboat Jason Carroll 5.0 17/Jan/13 - 05:59:44 0:16:34:44 0:16:21:23 1 1 2 Posted Image USA 14 Sundog Seacart 30 Paul Parks -87.0 17/Jan/13 - 04:47:34 0:15:22:34 0:19:14:34 2 2 3 Posted Image USA 64 Flight Simulator Corsair 28R Tom Reese 18.0 17/Jan/13 - 12:46:10 0:23:21:10 0:22:33:09 3 3 4 Posted Image USA 46 Tri-Vector Dragonfly 35 David Otto 0.0 17/Jan/13 - 13:22:54 0:23:57:54 0:23:57:53 4 4

#2 Bull Gator

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 07:58 PM

A travesty of justice. That rating was bought and paid for.

#3 soma

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 11:17 PM

Great guys, great boat. Shit rating.

Can't blame them, though. I think of multihull ratings as a lottery more than an objective measure of performance potential.

#4 joey g

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:06 AM

Last year in the same race they were given a rating of -37 so I dont know what happened here.

#5 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:07 AM

dunno about that; the SeaCart should be a lot faster than the Gunboat in a lot of conditions yet they only beat the GB by an hour. explain that please Soma?

#6 Bull Gator

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:49 AM

Water line - for the most part pretty light conditions

#7 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:59 AM

how would waterline help in light conditions on a relatively heavy cat? Some kind of special physics?

Elvis is no lightweight, and they had an entire Melges 32 crew aboard it seems.

Sorry I don't know more, but I do know Elvis and she ain't no racer, nor are any of the Gunboats. Hell of a cruiser though, and with some of the best one-design sailors anywhere helping make her go fast last week.

#8 munt

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 04:40 AM

waterline is very important, especially in lighter air.

#9 cazza

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 10:44 AM

There are very few 30 footers that are quicker than a GB 62 offshore, and in a breeze i suspect there would be even less.

#10 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:21 PM

having been on both a SC and a GB62, there ain't a lot of conditions where it would even be close, especially if the GB was loaded to the gills with booze, food, and crew. That being said, if the multihull and monohull rating numbers for the race are correlated, it's a little nutty to see a GB62 rate slower than a Farr 40.

#11 soma

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:59 PM

Mr. Clean-I don't doubt for a minute that a Seacart should smoke a GB. Not even close. I don't have any reason to believe that Elvis wasn't sailed well. But Elvis (since you've seen it last) has been turbo'ed, and a 3 hour corrected time victory is pretty big. Big enough to lead me to the conclusion that the rating isn't quite fair.

Side note-in 25+ offshore a GB would do pretty well against a SC.

#12 richardstephens

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 03:24 PM

Last year the race was light air, and Elvis did not seem to be fast. We kept pace with them in the F28R Flight Simulator for quite a long time, and they did not pull ahead until the Miami mark. This year, wind was moderate again, and they were clearly a lot faster than us right from the start. My guess is the difference was just the crew. There is no doubt they sailed well this year, whatever the rating.

#13 richardstephens

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 03:38 PM

Another boat that surprised us this year was Tri-Vector, a Dragonfly 35. She had a nice looking set of new Smyth sails, and Randy Smyth on board. With that talent on board and a rating of 0, we did not expect to be ahead! Maybe the boat was heavily loaded.

#14 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 04:42 PM

http://sailinganarch...g-for-key-west/

#15 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 04:47 PM

Mr. Clean-I don't doubt for a minute that a Seacart should smoke a GB. Not even close. I don't have any reason to believe that Elvis wasn't sailed well. But Elvis (since you've seen it last) has been turbo'ed, and a 3 hour corrected time victory is pretty big. Big enough to lead me to the conclusion that the rating isn't quite fair.

Side note-in 25+ offshore a GB would do pretty well against a SC.


fair enough soma; i don't know how much work Jason has had his speed team put into the Elvis, so it could be a ridiculous rating; then again, when the 62 did the Mac it would have been killed even with about a 50 rating.

As you know i sailed the Phaedo - the most turbo of the 66s - in some pretty sporty conditions and IMO a SeaCart would've killed us in everything but a really bumpy reach or beat. I can't imagine Elvis is much faster than Phaedo.

#16 AClass USA 230

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 05:14 PM

Jason Carol’s Gunboat Elvis just won the the Ft. Lauderdale to Key West Race on corrected time. Jason Carol runs a top notch program in what ever boat he is involved in. He and his crew are very accomplished sailors. I do however have to scratch my head at this corrected time win. How did a 62' boat touted as being the fastest cruising cat around and a monohull race boat killer get such a slow PHRF rating? I race on a Corsair 37' trimaran, also a crusing boat, that does not have nearly the hype, size, or power of a Gunboat and we rate -25 and can win occasionally at that rating. One of the top boats in the New England area is a stock Corsair Dash 750. It is a 25' family pocket cruiser and it also rates 5 sailed by one of the better sailors in the area. Is the million dollar ++ Gunboat 62 really not any faster than the $75,000 Dash?

The results below show Gunboat finishing a little over an hour behind the -87 rating Seacart 30, but correcting almost 3 hours ahead! Over the 160 mile course the Gunboat sailed about 27 seconds a mile slower that the Seacart, yet was owed 93 seconds a mile by it. It seemed impossible for Elvis to lose.

Am I missing something here?



I don't think you are missing a thing. Based on Flight Simulator's rating of 18, it looks like they were using the PHRF ratings we use at the Trimaran and Corsair national championships. My Sprint 750 Mk I rates 33 (and at this time I believe so will the Dash's and Sprint Mk II's for future PHRF multihull events). A Corsair 31R rates -30 and I think the cruising versions of the 31 rate in the negative teens. Hard to believe a 31 would owe time to a GB62 in that race.

Richard - Did Randy or Tom (assuming Tom Reese was on Flight Simulator) say anything to the rating guys at this event about it?

We saw the same type of rating mystery last year in St. Maarten at the Heineken Regatta. A Corsair 37 and several 40-50 foot tri's owed time to the Nigel Iren's custom tri Paradox which is over 60' long and is more racer than cruiser. I was sailing on a Gunboat 66 and the 37 owed us time at that event. On the Gunboat we were the third fastest boat upwind (Paradox and Dauphine Telecom were faster) probably due to waterline but the smaller boats were faster downwind. Everyone was seeing downwind speeds in the high teens to low 20's at that event.

I think the Seacart has its work cut out upwind and possibly two sail close reaching against a well sailed GB 62/66 in big wind and seas. Turn the bow off the wind a bit more it will be gone as long as you keep the bows up!

#17 soma

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 05:55 PM

Like I said, IMHO multihull ratings are a lottery. In fact, I wish we could dispense with the illusion of fair play and treat it like a lottery. Get one of those big plexiglass balls full of ping pong balls like the Pick 6 lottery.

A single number rating in a widely varied multihull fleet is laughable. One year at Heineken it was impossibly light conditions. A little 26' wooden 40-yr old tri actually beat us to the weather mark. We owed them 26 mins/hr. In light wind they trucked, they were untouchable. They won the race (on corrected) and the regatta. Every other year they are DFL. Same boat, same crew. In sub-10 knot conditions they were unbeatable. In 20+ we are untouchable.

Paradox was the fastest boat in the Caribbean last year. Why any multi owed them time is a big mystery. In a similar situation to Elvis, though, it's not Paradox's job to rectify their gift rating. They were as confused about it as anyone, but what are they going to do? Protest their own rating for being too generous?

As for Elvis/Phaedo, I'm looking forward to the matchup this year at the C600. Phaedo has plenty of time on the water in race conditions, they have Brian Thompson sailing aboard this year, and they are (were?) the most race oriented GB. With that said, Jason is one of the best owner drivers out there, Scotty is a legend at running race programs, Kotoun is a world class tactician, and the boat has shed a BUNCH of weight, put in new, deeper dagger boards, and they have all new sails. It should be a toss up who wins.

#18 Speng

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 06:45 PM

I dunno why people here in the US think rating multis is rocket science, funny enough over in Europe they have multi rating systems and they don't come up with such utterly ridiculous handicaps. And yeah I know Gunboats vary but didn't Phaedo beat all the Open60s and a bunch of mini-maxis etc etc in the last Fastnet race? Part of the problem is that every area of the country has some different rating for multis - some are PHRF style, some are measurement - and none of them bear any relationship to each other. If I have a Melges 24 I reckon my PHRF rating is +/-5 anywhere in the country +/-10 at the worst. Sorry but there is no justification for such silliness. And this is not one of those mono vs multi things as in most places the multi guys make up their own ratings and they can't come up with something that can be used from one part of the country to another, so what do you expect when some mono guys tries to rate a multi.

#19 AClass USA 230

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 06:56 PM

I dunno why people here in the US think rating multis is rocket science, funny enough over in Europe they have multi rating systems and they don't come up with such utterly ridiculous handicaps. And yeah I know Gunboats vary but didn't Phaedo beat all the Open60s and a bunch of mini-maxis etc etc in the last Fastnet race? Part of the problem is that every area of the country has some different rating for multis - some are PHRF style, some are measurement - and none of them bear any relationship to each other. If I have a Melges 24 I reckon my PHRF rating is +/-5 anywhere in the country +/-10 at the worst. Sorry but there is no justification for such silliness. And this is not one of those mono vs multi things as in most places the multi guys make up their own ratings and they can't come up with something that can be used from one part of the country to another, so what do you expect when some mono guys tries to rate a multi.


You make very valid points!

#20 bhyde

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 07:11 PM

+1
Believe it or not, we (SF BAMA) have an F31R that is rated at 60. My F-24II rates 69. Sprints/Dashs rate 33.
Yeah, it's a complete crap shoot.

#21 joey g

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:38 PM

I still find it interesting that the GB got a 42 second/mile gift over last year while the SC kept its same rating from 2 years ago.

#22 mowgli

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 10:18 PM

Take Texel, Multi2000 or Australian OMR rule they are open and have no secrets you can even calculate the rating your self.

#23 mowgli

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 10:22 PM

if you do the calculating your self here is the explanation
http://www.texelrati...php?paginaid=81

#24 Peter Johnstone

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 11:48 PM

First and foremost, Gunboats are world cruisers. ELVIS has a rum tank onboard. The SeaCart is an empty carbon shell. A light trimaran in moderate conditions should be untouchable. Regardless of the rating, ELVIS appears to have sailed a nice race. Scott Bradford has done a really nice job preparing and refitting ELVIS.

Racing multihulls can be fair. They need to be better grouped by type, and power to weight ratios. Good race organizers would not mix an HPR type boat with older Swans. Nor should little racing trimarans be lumped with offshore cruising cats. Boats should race similar type boats whether a keelboat or a multi.

Good multihull rating formulas exist and should be encouraged. The CSA multihull rule is based on the Texel rule. If all of the multihulls in the Caribbean were to go through the weighing and measuring process, there would not be the 'anomalies' that have been seen in recent years. The keelboats go through the weighing and measuring process, why shouldn't the multihulls? It takes the commitment of the owners to do it.

Harvey Jenkinson, the captain of the GUNBOAT 66 TIGER LILY should be applauded for getting all of the Gunboats racing in the Gunboat class at the Heineken Regatta to agree to go through this process with the CSA multihull measurer. Each boat is being weighed with the same load cells by the same measurer in lightship condition. This should lead to very close racing. What you plan to make happen, will happen. Harvey's efforts are a real positive step. SOMA, you and the other more racing oriented multihulls need to make that commitment to make the racing fair.

PHAEDO is a beautiful GUNBOAT. She is high tech, has a tall rig, and also has most of the luxuries you'd expect of a world cruiser. How many racing boats do you know feature a pizza oven, full air-conditioning and ostrich wrapped salon cushions? Her owner and crew are great sailors and push her hard. The older Gunboat 62's have less stuff in them and can give the newer more luxurious Gunboat 66's a run for their money. I would not want to bet against either ELVIS or PHAEDO in a race. Both are excellent programs.

#25 B30

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:03 AM

Peter. With all due respect, we all know how nice your boats are and most of us lust after them, you didn't say whether you believed +5 to be a fair PHRFrating for Elvis in this race.

#26 bhyde

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:09 AM

Rum Tank? You win hands down.

#27 soma

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:39 AM

"SOMA, you and the other more racing oriented multihulls need to make that commitment to make the racing fair"

We're not in it for fair racing. We are in it for Pure Platinum, Sunset Beach Bar, and Go Karts. The racing is the justification, the debauchery is the goal. I hope to see you at all 3 spots (oh yeah, and on the racecourse, too).

No, seriously, we've had a blast every year, whether we finish first or last. It's not worth the heartache to try and make it fair. It's like herding...well...cats (no pun in intended). We hope to be first to finish and see a shit ton of friends.

#28 GnarlyItWas

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 01:22 AM

+1000 Soma,

I agree that handicap racing is bullshit, that said it's still better than not sailing and regattas are always a good time win lose or draw.

#29 Wess

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 01:37 AM

I dunno why people here in the US think rating multis is rocket science, funny enough over in Europe they have multi rating systems and they don't come up with such utterly ridiculous handicaps. And yeah I know Gunboats vary but didn't Phaedo beat all the Open60s and a bunch of mini-maxis etc etc in the last Fastnet race? Part of the problem is that every area of the country has some different rating for multis - some are PHRF style, some are measurement - and none of them bear any relationship to each other. If I have a Melges 24 I reckon my PHRF rating is +/-5 anywhere in the country +/-10 at the worst. Sorry but there is no justification for such silliness. And this is not one of those mono vs multi things as in most places the multi guys make up their own ratings and they can't come up with something that can be used from one part of the country to another, so what do you expect when some mono guys tries to rate a multi.


Abso-freaking-lutely!

The multi crowd (and I am part of this) keeps shooting itself in the foot with absurd rating systems that do not take racing seriously so the serious racers go elsewhere.

So frustrating.

Wess

#30 B30

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:42 PM

Abso-freaking-lutely!

The multi crowd (and I am part of this) keeps shooting itself in the foot with absurd rating systems that do not take racing seriously so the serious racers go elsewhere.

So frustrating.

Wess


+1 I love racing and love racing the bigger multis. I would love to get more people doing it and try to expose as many serious racers as I can to the boats I sai on. Things like this make it harder to make that happen.

#31 Strategery

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:04 PM

Only one way to settle this...

Mano e Mano, OD, at the East Coast Weta Championships...WetaFest. Each captain charters a Weta, and after 3 days, we know who is the best...

Heh...

My money is on Reese...

#32 Wess

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:13 PM

Only one way to settle this...

Mano e Mano, OD, at the East Coast Weta Championships...WetaFest. Each captain charters a Weta, and after 3 days, we know who is the best...

Heh...

My money is on Reese...


That sounds like fun. When? Where? Details found... where? I am headed to google but pimp dat thing!

#33 Strategery

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:16 PM

FWYC - March 21 to 24. There's a thread I just started on it...don't know how to link...

#34 catsailordude

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:11 AM

No doubt the Seacart would smoke the Gunboat on a windward/leeward course, but in a long distance race with lots of reaching, power is more important than efficiency.

And "racing" vastly different boats on handicap is stupid.

#35 Peter Johnstone

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:12 AM

B30, Thanks for the kind comments. I do not know the background of the ratings, or how they were arrived at for the KW Race. PHRF type ratings are really hard to get right without a lot of prior race data between the boats being raced. I am a fan of proper measurement, and Texel type formulas for rating multis.

SOMA, a guy of your intelligence, popularity and stature in the Caribbean could easily take a leadership role and improve the Caribbean ratings and racing.

#36 Wess

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 12:43 PM

FWYC - March 21 to 24. There's a thread I just started on it...don't know how to link...


Thanks. PM me some details as they emerge. This sounds like fun if the work schedule will allow.

Wess

#37 Tucky

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 02:55 PM

No doubt the Seacart would smoke the Gunboat on a windward/leeward course, but in a long distance race with lots of reaching, power is more important than efficiency.

And "racing" vastly different boats on handicap is stupid.


Stupid isn't the word I'd use for racing vastly different boats- Soma has made that point well. Lottery maybe, but it can be fun, and in a lot of places there just aren't enough boats to do it any other way. Peter's idea to split up the boats by type will just result in classes of one or two boats.

You can still have fun and learn just sailing next to another boat, and multihulls do react to wind and conditions more like each other than classic monohulls.

What is stupid is to read too much into it, or imagine that any rating system creates truly "fair" or "equal chance to win" racing. If you want that you should look at one-design, whether mono or multi.

#38 diggler

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 03:50 PM

waterline is very important, especially in lighter air.


Nope, completely the opposite. Waterline length is important for sea keeping and for wave making drag. Light air generally implies smooth seas and lower speeds, so frictional resistance is usually the biggest concern. Increasing waterline length for a given displacement actually carries a wetted surface penalty. Sail area to wetted surface ratio is the parameter to look at and low displacement is, within the range of normal rig sizes, king.

#39 Peter Johnstone

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:06 PM

Tucky, we will have six Gunboats at the Gunboat class at the Heineken Regatta. With the other multis, I am certain good classes can be put together if people decide to lead and promote, rather than sit back and complain. There are a lot of similar trimarans that could be grouped together in the Caribbean and US. SOMA's formula 40 fits better with those than with a group of world cruising cats. There are a lot of nice performance cats out there too, whether Marstrom 32's, TORO, SL33, Reynolds etc. The more that people plan and push to make it happen, the more it will happen. There is no question that one design is the best racing format. We expect to provide that with Gunboat 55's in the coming years. We have several long time one design types stepping into these. In the meantime, the Gunboat 62's and Gunboat 66's in the Gunboat class at Heineken will be racing at nearly level ratings.

#40 Strategery

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:30 PM

Peter,

I'll bet you can stack 4 Weta's on the front and have your own OD races wherever you anchor...

Keep designing great boats - I'll get there someday...

C.

#41 Peter Johnstone

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:41 PM

Strategery, I sailed one of ProSail Asia's Wetas in Singapore a few weeks back. Those are very cool boats. We have a fleet in Duck, NC near our Gunboat yard. Could definitely get excited about sailing those! We had a lot of fun in SIngapore.

#42 B30

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:18 AM

You should get 3 Wetas when you buy a Gunboat :D

#43 AClass USA 230

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:30 AM

Tucky, we will have six Gunboats at the Gunboat class at the Heineken Regatta. With the other multis, I am certain good classes can be put together if people decide to lead and promote, rather than sit back and complain. There are a lot of similar trimarans that could be grouped together in the Caribbean and US. SOMA's formula 40 fits better with those than with a group of world cruising cats. There are a lot of nice performance cats out there too, whether Marstrom 32's, TORO, SL33, Reynolds etc. The more that people plan and push to make it happen, the more it will happen. There is no question that one design is the best racing format. We expect to provide that with Gunboat 55's in the coming years. We have several long time one design types stepping into these. In the meantime, the Gunboat 62's and Gunboat 66's in the Gunboat class at Heineken will be racing at nearly level ratings.


PJ,

We arrive on Tuesday night and will be out on the water Wed and Thurs getting Coco warmed up before the racing starts on Fri. Are you sailing on Tribe? It'd be fun to line up and do some boat on boat tuning before the event starts.

Looking forward to seeing the Gunboat clan again.

Cheers,

Bob

#44 Strategery

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:09 PM

Strategery, I sailed one of ProSail Asia's Wetas in Singapore a few weeks back. Those are very cool boats. We have a fleet in Duck, NC near our Gunboat yard. Could definitely get excited about sailing those! We had a lot of fun in SIngapore.


Amen. I love racing and cruising the big boats, but last night I finished work, hopped on the Weta and sailed with the dolphins as the sun set... just me and the waves, spur of the moment.

I vote for integral cradles and lifting straps on the 55 for at least 2 Weta's as standard gear on every new Gunboat - at least mine will have that ;-)


Tucky, we will have six Gunboats at the Gunboat class at the Heineken Regatta. With the other multis, I am certain good classes can be put together if people decide to lead and promote, rather than sit back and complain. There are a lot of similar trimarans that could be grouped together in the Caribbean and US. SOMA's formula 40 fits better with those than with a group of world cruising cats. There are a lot of nice performance cats out there too, whether Marstrom 32's, TORO, SL33, Reynolds etc. The more that people plan and push to make it happen, the more it will happen. There is no question that one design is the best racing format. We expect to provide that with Gunboat 55's in the coming years. We have several long time one design types stepping into these. In the meantime, the Gunboat 62's and Gunboat 66's in the Gunboat class at Heineken will be racing at nearly level ratings.


PJ,

We arrive on Tuesday night and will be out on the water Wed and Thurs getting Coco warmed up before the racing starts on Fri. Are you sailing on Tribe? It'd be fun to line up and do some boat on boat tuning before the event starts.

Looking forward to seeing the Gunboat clan again.

Cheers,

Bob


Be fast Bob. Take lots of pics.

C

#45 the rev. petey

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:32 PM

I know 2 things
The Mount Gay Tank was full, and it takes a pump and a half for a wicked strong adult beverage.

#46 richardstephens

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:32 PM

You could use the floats of the Wetas as extra Rum tanks on the Gunboat!

#47 Tucky

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:25 PM

Thanks Peter, I wasn't trying to make a specific point about Gunboats where you are getting those kinds of numbers, I'm in complete agreement with you there and congratulate you on what you are doing- providing your boats with exciting fun racing while keeping the amenities is a neat thing for the owners. I do think you need enough boats to create multihull fleet splits. Here in New England we generally need to group everyone together to even get a class. If the question is how to grow multihull racing I think fleet splits are not always the way to go.

#48 bush sailer

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 03:32 AM

The OMR system works very well in rating diferent boats. See attached results. The full spectrum of boats are in this race from a ORMA 60 (vodophone) to F27 s sprints etc.
The only problem is racing much faster boats with slower boats is variable breeze. This series favoured the faster boats as the breeze droped during the day, where the slow boats get favoured when sea breeze conditions exist.
Updated: 14/08/2012 16:34:27


OMR results Start : 11:20 Pioneer Bay Large Triangle - 21-29 nmi (5) Place Sail No Boat Name From Elapsd AHC Cor'd T Skipper Score Design 1 N36 MALICE PD 02:46:33 1.096 03:02:32 Malcolm Richardson 1.0 Nacra 36 2 MK95 HOT VINDALOO NYRC 03:22:46 0.910 03:04:31 Adrian Fawcett 2.0 Pescott Fire Fly 850 3 M289 TRILOGY RQYS 03:17:43 0.935 03:04:52 Keith Glover 3.0 Grainger 4 8 RUSHOUR MYCQ 03:45:55 0.820 03:05:15 Drew Carruthers 4.0 Rogers12 5 V1 APC MAD MAX MYCV 02:50:54 1.104 03:08:40 George Owen 5.0 Grainger 10 6 21 TEAM VODAFONE SAILIN RNZYS 02:11:18 1.438 03:08:49 Simon Hull 6.0 Orma 60 7 GR297 WILPARINA 11 GRYC 03:29:47 0.910 03:10:54 Robert Remilton 7.0 Farrier 9 Mod 8 WH3801 J'OUVERT WSC 03:54:10 0.823 03:12:43 Peter Berry 8.0 Pescott Whitehaven 1 9 MK61 BULLETPROOF MCYC 03:39:54 0.883 03:14:10 Scott Gralow 9.0 Schionning G Force 10 V4 FRASSLD MYCV 03:56:03 0.827 03:15:13 Shaun Fishley 10.0 Corsair F 31 11 V3 BARE ESSENTIALS MYCVBYS 03:26:11 0.967 03:19:23 Tim Pepperell 11.0 Grainger 12 125 GNEISENAU GRYC 04:11:08 0.806 03:22:25 Ross McOmish 12.0 Corsair Sprint 750 M 13 RQ120 CUT SNAKE RQYS 03:56:11 0.878 03:27:22 Robert Dean 13.0 Stealth 12 14 7548 OVERDRIVE WSC 04:46:33 0.756 03:36:38 Rupert King 14.0 Re1066t 15 33 INTRIIGUE QCYC 04:29:31 0.817 03:40:12 Peter Hackett 15.0 Corsair 27 16 M327 PURPLE HAZE SYC 05:13:15 0.911 04:45:22 Danny McMillan 16.0 Grainger Essential 8 DNF 134 NEW TRICKS MYCQ 0.814 David Renouf 19.0 Corsair 750 Mk11 DNF W144 CYNOPHOBE WSC 1.007 Pete Millar 19.0 Grainger Panther

#49 bush sailer

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 04:25 AM

That did not work properly, long and short of the results was top ten boats within a few minutes on corrected despite an hour diferent on elapsed.

#50 soma

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:00 AM

Alright, that's it. The wife and I are packing up and moving. Where do you get a fleet like that? If you tell me the Whitsundays, I'm shipping the boat FedEx. I'll be there tomorrow.

#51 Peter Johnstone

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:33 PM

Bob, I will be on MAYHEM sailing with the owner and some of his friends. Would love to line up on Wed or Thurs. We have the original 66' rig like you guys, and a tiny world cruising solent. We will need breeze. We are in full world cruising mode, complete with blenders, dishwasher and an espresso machine. May have to hang a rum filled weta on the davits to match Elvis' rum tank. Am grateful for weighing of the fleet...

Tucky, NE has so many multis, but they are not coming out. Think if the focus were more point to point day races with fun gatherings afterwards, more would come out. The WL corsair type racing is fun, but too specialized for most multis in NE

#52 Frassld

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:36 AM

Alright, that's it. The wife and I are packing up and moving. Where do you get a fleet like that? If you tell me the Whitsundays, I'm shipping the boat FedEx. I'll be there tomorrow.

SOMA Should be an even bigger fleet this August, it is the Nationals as well. Last year 3 boats were towed from Adelaide 6000km round trip and a couple from Melbourne 5000 km round trip and quite a few boats trailered/sailed up from Brisbane, Vodaphone the ORMA 60 sailed over from New Zealand what an effort. Hopefully team Australia the ORMA 60 based in Sydney will make it this year, I woundnt be suprised if the 2 carbon F32SRC's built in New Zealand and headed for Adelaide show up as well !!

#53 The Tug

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:17 PM

Like I said, IMHO multihull ratings are a lottery. In fact, I wish we could dispense with the illusion of fair play and treat it like a lottery. Get one of those big plexiglass balls full of ping pong balls like the Pick 6 lottery.

A single number rating in a widely varied multihull fleet is laughable. One year at Heineken it was impossibly light conditions. A little 26' wooden 40-yr old tri actually beat us to the weather mark. We owed them 26 mins/hr. In light wind they trucked, they were untouchable. They won the race (on corrected) and the regatta. Every other year they are DFL. Same boat, same crew. In sub-10 knot conditions they were unbeatable. In 20+ we are untouchable.

Paradox was the fastest boat in the Caribbean last year. Why any multi owed them time is a big mystery. In a similar situation to Elvis, though, it's not Paradox's job to rectify their gift rating. They were as confused about it as anyone, but what are they going to do? Protest their own rating for being too generous?

As for Elvis/Phaedo, I'm looking forward to the matchup this year at the C600. Phaedo has plenty of time on the water in race conditions, they have Brian Thompson sailing aboard this year, and they are (were?) the most race oriented GB. With that said, Jason is one of the best owner drivers out there, Scotty is a legend at running race programs, Kotoun is a world class tactician, and the boat has shed a BUNCH of weight, put in new, deeper dagger boards, and they have all new sails. It should be a toss up who wins.

That would be Tryst from St Barts 6 sheets of plywood and 40+ yrs old and fast as hell in light wind sailed by the whore lol.

#54 Strategery

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 01:28 PM

Another boat that surprised us this year was Tri-Vector, a Dragonfly 35. She had a nice looking set of new Smyth sails, and Randy Smyth on board. With that talent on board and a rating of 0, we did not expect to be ahead! Maybe the boat was heavily loaded.


Ah...I was wondering why they were doing so well...




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