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New Clipper 70: If a Volvo 70 and a Winnebago had a baby


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#1 Left Hook

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 06:48 AM

Posted Image

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Discuss...

*Lifted from the Marlow Ropes facebook page:

#2 Leka

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 07:18 AM

Companionway hatch is offset, definitely dangerous!!


Seriously though, while I would not pay what they are asking for a RTW ride, I wouldn't mind a steer in a bit of a blow in the Southern Ocean with a stiff following breeze. They should see some good speeds if the boats hold together.

There may be some breakages and gear failures in the first go round as they are new builds, but hopefully they have learnt from thier last mistake.

#3 JL92S

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 07:29 AM

As long as they're 40 tons I think they'll still be dangerous. Powerful hull + 40 tons + standard deck gear and rigging = problems. I can't see how they'll make money unless they've put their rates up to spec the boats higher. Adding to the possibility of code 0s and I think the problem will be worse. And it looks fugly

#4 nroose

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 07:34 AM

Um... Nice, but compared to the VOR70, I would say, um, slightly depowered.
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#5 nroose

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 07:35 AM

Oh, and it definitely looks faster in the water with the sails down, than out of the water with the sails up... Not sure that's a good thing to say about a design.

#6 Shute Man

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 07:46 AM

Companionway hatch is offset, definitely dangerous!!


Seriously though, while I would not pay what they are asking for a RTW ride, I wouldn't mind a steer in a bit of a blow in the Southern Ocean with a stiff following breeze. They should see some good speeds if the boats hold together.

There may be some breakages and gear failures in the first go round as they are new builds, but hopefully they have learnt from thier last mistake.


Whats the price?

Had a quick look but couldn't find it

#7 GBR1525

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:27 AM


Companionway hatch is offset, definitely dangerous!!


Seriously though, while I would not pay what they are asking for a RTW ride, I wouldn't mind a steer in a bit of a blow in the Southern Ocean with a stiff following breeze. They should see some good speeds if the boats hold together.

There may be some breakages and gear failures in the first go round as they are new builds, but hopefully they have learnt from thier last mistake.


Whats the price?

Had a quick look but couldn't find it


It was £40k approximately for the last 'race' I think. I don't know if this has changed with the new fleet

#8 Icedtea

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 10:03 AM

Hmmm it looks pretty ok. I sailed on a converted british steel 67 and you can really feel the weight of those things.


Also the runners look......fun with a relatively inexperienced crew!

#9 Sailbydate

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 10:15 AM

Um... Nice, but compared to the VOR70, I would say, um, slightly depowered.
Posted Image

A lot depowered more like. Low aspect rig, fixed stubby keel, big rudder and a lot of hull rocker. Be a bitch in the Southern Ocean I'd say. But amateur crew, so probably a reasonably sensible set-up. Love to have a go, but maybe not in the Southern Ocean.

#10 forss

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 11:01 AM

Hmmm it looks pretty ok. I sailed on a converted british steel 67 and you can really feel the weight of those things.


Also the runners look......fun with a relatively inexperienced crew!


I read somewhere that there will be 22 person crew on board.. So no problem with runners I guess.

Few pictures from inside too:
http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=all&q=clipper+70&m=text

Decent boat for amateur crew.

#11 frakulator

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 03:57 PM

http://www.flickr.co...ing/8370863852/

damn look at the emeril-esque galley in that thing.

#12 Bad Andy

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 04:12 PM

I got the packet the other day, 43K pounds for the full trip something like 4-6k per leg otherwise plus a 3k training

#13 Presuming Ed

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 05:51 PM

Um... Nice, but compared to the VOR70, I would say, um, slightly depowered.


Probably deliberately tender - add in small winches, and it'll probably be a better move to reef early and reef often, and keep the boat upright. Safer than a much deeper keel and more powerful boat. Not to mention the commercial aspects of the number of places you can go with more limited draft.

Like the Chay Blyth British Steel/BT challenge boats. IIRC, they were built around the biggest non-grinder Lewmar winches available, and similarly kept tender. Skippers learnt early on that early reefing was a winning move.

#14 Leka

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:48 AM

No change from US$ 70,000.00 + 12 months off work.

That's a lot of money in most peoples language.
Way more than I could find, but the time off would be the killer.

Good luck and best wishes for those that can, seems they always have full crews, so can obvioulsy sell spots.


#15 corkob

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 11:00 PM

I guess the rationale of this new look boat is to resemble a VOR 70. After all the target buyers for places on these boats are likely to be those that have been bitten by the bug watching the vendee globe and the Volvo Ocean Race. The old boats simply don't look the part any more.

#16 Swanno (Ohf Shore)

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 04:26 AM

The hull from the waterline up, looks ok, then that sail/hull plan drawing showing the humpback whale under the water made me throw up a bit.

#17 CrushDigital

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:24 AM

I can't figure out the cockpit design, it doesn't seem conducive to anything. It's certainly not ergonomic. I know they have big crews so there are typically plenty of people around to help out with maneuvers but I wouldn't like having to navigate around all that clutter in the middle of the night.

Plus with all the protection they put around the helmsman it doesn't look like they bothered to give him any sort of level platform to stand on like every other new build large racing boat seems to be using.

#18 JL92S

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:46 AM

I saw hull 1 getting finished along side Abu Dhabi and the Winnebago idea is a very accurate way of describing it, I imagine in less than 12kts these boats would grind to a holt. 6-8k also seems a allot to do 1 leg of the race + training

#19 Schnick

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:52 PM

Its like they kept all the 'slow-making' features of the old boats and then went to great lengths to look like a VO70 while tied to the dock. In fact I see no reason why this boat would be faster than the last generation?

#20 ssi

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:40 PM

No change from US$ 70,000.00 + 12 months off work.

That's a lot of money in most peoples language.


Not for those who priced out buying a suit of sails for 40K miles of ocean use.

#21 Sailbydate

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:42 PM

I guess since the fleet is all one-design, it doesn't really matter about relative performance.

As an aside, I believe Alex Thomson (Hugo Boss) got his 'start' skippering one of the earlier boats. So, if you've the money, can shelve your commitments for a while, or are young and see it as a 'career' enhancing step, it could be a way to move your status from amateur to professional maybe?

#22 gybe-ho!

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:35 AM

I guess since the fleet is all one-design, it doesn't really matter about relative performance.

As an aside, I believe Alex Thomson (Hugo Boss) got his 'start' skippering one of the earlier boats. So, if you've the money, can shelve your commitments for a while, or are young and see it as a 'career' enhancing step, it could be a way to move your status from amateur to professional maybe?


As well as Mike Golding and Dee Caffari...

#23 Leka

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:03 AM


No change from US$ 70,000.00 + 12 months off work.

That's a lot of money in most peoples language.


Not for those who priced out buying a suit of sails for 40K miles of ocean use.


Agreed, but Clippers target audience would not be people who require a suit of sails for 40K of ocean use.

Seems they get a few sailors, but mostly people who want to challenge themselves for whatever reason.

It was this group I was thinking of when I said it was a big chunk of change.

The people who look at buying ocean racing sails, probably wouldn't sign up for a Clipper spot.

#24 Laser1

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:07 PM

As well as Mike Golding and Dee Caffari...


That was Global Challenge, Group 4 & Aviva, although the British Steel 67's were no oil painting they still looked better than the Clippers.

#25 Drop Bear.

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:35 PM

These things are designed for one thing.

Having as many jobs on board as possible so everyone feels involved.

The reality (that I've experienced from people I've met who have done it) is that you end up with 20,000 ocean racing miles but can't sail. You can however make a wicked brew and know how to put a winch handle in the right place.

#26 Potter

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:56 PM

These things are designed for one thing.

Having as many jobs on board as possible so everyone feels involved.

The reality (that I've experienced from people I've met who have done it) is that you end up with 20,000 ocean racing miles but can't sail. You can however make a wicked brew and know how to put a winch handle in the right place.

Not always! :unsure:

Actually some really good people have been through the Clipper/ Global CHallenge schools. Somebody ponted out the other day that 3/4 of Alex Thomson's shore crew were ex Clipper (some as SKippers others as punters).
Pete Goss, Merf Owen, Mike Golding, Conrad Humphreys, Dee Caffari all did CHallenge Business (though Dee was not sponsored by Aviva back then as stated above)
That said; I watched the end of the last Challenge race come into the Solent and saw a circumnavigator put a line the wrong way around the winch as the approached the finish...the look on that skippers face was priceless!

#27 Drop Bear.

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 08:58 AM

I thought all the people who have come through and gone onto be professional racers were skippers.

Are there any punters who have gone on to a racing career? Dee caffri?

#28 Potter

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 09:19 AM

I thought all the people who have come through and gone onto be professional racers were skippers.

Are there any punters who have gone on to a racing career? Dee caffri?

Dee was a skipper in the last Challenge race. Paying crew have gone on to do mini campaigns and other such things, but not sure any have gone on to IMOCA60. James Boyd was a crew member on Alex Thomson's clipper boat.

#29 mad

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:50 PM


These things are designed for one thing.

Having as many jobs on board as possible so everyone feels involved.

The reality (that I've experienced from people I've met who have done it) is that you end up with 20,000 ocean racing miles but can't sail. You can however make a wicked brew and know how to put a winch handle in the right place.

Not always! :unsure:

Actually some really good people have been through the Clipper/ Global CHallenge schools. Somebody ponted out the other day that 3/4 of Alex Thomson's shore crew were ex Clipper (some as SKippers others as punters).
Pete Goss, Merf Owen, Mike Golding, Conrad Humphreys, Dee Caffari all did CHallenge Business (though Dee was not sponsored by Aviva back then as stated above)
That said; I watched the end of the last Challenge race come into the Solent and saw a circumnavigator put a line the wrong way around the winch as the approached the finish...the look on that skippers face was priceless!

walked on board a challenge boat a long time ago after a finish, every winch still had arrows written on the top of the drum.

#30 TheFlash

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 04:16 PM

If I could figure out how to do it, I'd give it a go. Don't have the time.

#31 mad

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 04:38 PM

If I could figure out how to do it, I'd give it a go. Don't have the time.

If you've done any offshore sailing, you'd quit after taking one look at the beginners or after the first training weekend. (no I have never even thought about it, but I have seen a lot of them out training over the years)

#32 TheFlash

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 04:45 PM

could well be true.

#33 lydia

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 09:35 PM

Clealry a whole lot ignorant pricks here such good yachters that can't ever learn anything more about sailing or themselves.
So stay secure they in your infalliable knowledge that you are better than any Clipper crew and the Clipper people are just punters.

Clipper just has different rules to the ones you are used to.

Some are really clever like the points penalty for sail damage.
The daily organization of the crew to keep things running is interesting.
The old boats are quite equal (Team Australia was Qingdao this time)
The North Pacific legs are more about survival than racing

These boats look fine for the job they have to do.
The limiting factor is draft which reflects in stability which reflects in sail power.
Also the boats have to carry quite a load so have to be big volume.

But at the end of the day it is about the people.
And people do the race or parts of the race for all different reasons.

A good few people here could not hack it not becuase they can't sail a boat but because they are failures as people.
You might want to think about that one!

The only downside is that Clipper becomes a cult (but sort of a good cult) for those who do it.
So I might need help with an intervention!

#34 Icedtea

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:57 AM

Add Pete Goss to the list of people who skippered one, Hofbrau in the 96 British Steel...

#35 PIL007

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:02 PM

Clealry a whole lot ignorant pricks here such good yachters that can't ever learn anything more about sailing or themselves.
So stay secure they in your infalliable knowledge that you are better than any Clipper crew and the Clipper people are just punters.

Clipper just has different rules to the ones you are used to.

Some are really clever like the points penalty for sail damage.
The daily organization of the crew to keep things running is interesting.
The old boats are quite equal (Team Australia was Qingdao this time)
The North Pacific legs are more about survival than racing

These boats look fine for the job they have to do.
The limiting factor is draft which reflects in stability which reflects in sail power.
Also the boats have to carry quite a load so have to be big volume.

But at the end of the day it is about the people.
And people do the race or parts of the race for all different reasons.

A good few people here could not hack it not becuase they can't sail a boat but because they are failures as people.
You might want to think about that one!

The only downside is that Clipper becomes a cult (but sort of a good cult) for those who do it.
So I might need help with an intervention!


+100..........Some very good points here. In the 80's and 90's I did many years of yacht deliveries and i too found the best crew in the end were the ones with the best people skills. Getting along in confined space for long periods is by far the hardest chellenge IMO. People can be trained to get the boat around safely but alot can't be trained to be compliant humans in the group.

#36 miztified

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:55 AM


Clealry a whole lot ignorant pricks here such good yachters that can't ever learn anything more about sailing or themselves.
So stay secure they in your infalliable knowledge that you are better than any Clipper crew and the Clipper people are just punters.

Clipper just has different rules to the ones you are used to.

Some are really clever like the points penalty for sail damage.
The daily organization of the crew to keep things running is interesting.
The old boats are quite equal (Team Australia was Qingdao this time)
The North Pacific legs are more about survival than racing

These boats look fine for the job they have to do.
The limiting factor is draft which reflects in stability which reflects in sail power.
Also the boats have to carry quite a load so have to be big volume.

But at the end of the day it is about the people.
And people do the race or parts of the race for all different reasons.

A good few people here could not hack it not becuase they can't sail a boat but because they are failures as people.
You might want to think about that one!

The only downside is that Clipper becomes a cult (but sort of a good cult) for those who do it.
So I might need help with an intervention!


+100..........Some very good points here. In the 80's and 90's I did many years of yacht deliveries and i too found the best crew in the end were the ones with the best people skills. Getting along in confined space for long periods is by far the hardest chellenge IMO. People can be trained to get the boat around safely but alot can't be trained to be compliant humans in the group.


+1000....go Lydia. Very easy to sit in front of a screen and criticize. Not so easy to rearrange your life for a year or so and commit to something like Clipper. And what else is there like Clipper?

#37 Presuming Ed

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:37 PM

walked on board a challenge boat a long time ago after a finish, every winch still had arrows written on the top of the drum.


..... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :o :rolleyes:...

Posted Image

#38 DtM

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 05:56 AM

Hey Ozee is that you ???

You are right about the people perspective.

I have seen experienced offshore sailors wrap sheets the wrong way round the winch under pressure. I also have a recollection that the 12 metres had winches that loaded in opposite directions for the headsails.

And I have seen plenty of arrows on pedestal winches to ensure that the first turns engage the right gear.

#39 lydia

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:51 AM

Hey Ozee is that you ???

You are right about the people perspective.

I have seen experienced offshore sailors wrap sheets the wrong way round the winch under pressure. I also have a recollection that the 12 metres had winches that loaded in opposite directions for the headsails.

And I have seen plenty of arrows on pedestal winches to ensure that the first turns engage the right gear.

No, but I know where she sleeps at night!

#40 TUBBY

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:17 PM

Hey Ozee is that you ???

You are right about the people perspective.

I have seen experienced offshore sailors wrap sheets the wrong way round the winch under pressure. I also have a recollection that the 12 metres had winches that loaded in opposite directions for the headsails.

And I have seen plenty of arrows on pedestal winches to ensure that the first turns engage the right gear.


Yep, Gretel 2 for one had counterrotating primaries, Sheet or brace (everything leads to the primaries) loaded from the outside, Theory was that stresses on the hull were then the same on each side.

Was a bugger when you swapped from port to starboard trimmer for the day though!

TUBBY

#41 Drop Bear.

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:24 PM

Clearly a nerve has been touched.

Nothing anyone has said implies they know best or have nothing else to learn. Not understanding why anyone would do this - sure that's clear. I have no idea why anyone would fork out that sort of cash to do this. Especially when from my experience - ie people I've met - it seems that the objectives of clipper do not include creating good all round sailors.

It has often made me wonder why there isn't a company out there charging people to spend a year campaigning a mini maxi in all the big events around the globe. Surely its viable at 15 x 30k revenue.

Use of the word Punter is not offensive unless your knickers are already in a twist. In which case you are likely to be offended by anything that implies the clipper race is less than awesome.

Maybe you do need an intervention. :)

#42 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:41 PM

Yes Clipper is a race for punters. Yes Sir Robin has made a big pile of money from it. Yes the skills are not so much about racing as they are about endurance and ability to enjoy a smelly, stinky, slow, uncomfortable adventure.

But remember that Clipper has introduced more people to big boat offshore racing than any other single organization. They put asses in boats, and those asses generally end up staying into it, at least from the numbers I've seen.

In those ways, what Clipper does is extremely valuable to the sport of sailing, especially in the UK where the majority of participants come from. Without the clipper, the offshore interest from the UK would be a fraction of what it is.

Good for Sir Robin. Where he failed wildly with the Around Alone/Velux and I believe might have burned some very large sponsors, he's done really well with the clipper.

#43 Presuming Ed

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:04 PM

Nothing anyone has said implies they know best or have nothing else to learn. Not understanding why anyone would do this - sure that's clear. I have no idea why anyone would fork out that sort of cash to do this. Especially when from my experience - ie people I've met - it seems that the objectives of clipper do not include creating good all round sailors.

It has often made me wonder why there isn't a company out there charging people to spend a year campaigning a mini maxi in all the big events around the globe. Surely its viable at 15 x £30k revenue.



From all the marketing I've seen, it's not about sailing, or turning people into sailors. It's about an achievable adventure for the average bloke/woman in the street. If you want to learn to sail, there are better ways of doing it - the RYA has a whole structure of courses.

Ondeck offer regattas in their Farr65s. Went bust, but seem to have been restructured and are operating again. Thing about a year doing regattas is that you don't come back saying "I've just sailed round the world". AFAIAA, the majority of Clipper people only do a leg or two anyway: "I've just sailed across the Atlantic/Pacific".

#44 miztified

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:16 PM

Came across this interview with (Sir) RKJ - for those who don't understand the point of the Clipper Race/Experience
http://www.sport-magazine.co.uk/293/sir-robin-knox-johnston-i-had-no-idea-what-was-going-3428#ISUwvGdtyfLQgp2t.02

So, what was the idea behind the Clipper Series?
”It started in 1995, when I was in Greenland climbing and someone told me how much it cost to climb Mount Everest. I thought: ’Whoah, that’s a lot of money. What’s the sailing equivalent?’ Just as total amateurs climb Everest, our idea was to get amateurs sailing around the globe. We put an ad in the paper and got 8,000 replies, so we thought we’d better do it.”
Were you surprised by the level of interest?
”Yeah, I really was. An awful lot were just people dreaming. But we had enough to fill eight boats, and that was the beginning of the Clipper races.”
What advice do you give people ahead of the races?
”Train hard and sail easy. The easiest people to train are the ones who have never sailed before, because they don’t have any bad habits. But anyone can be a great sailor as long as you train hard. You’re doing a once-in-a-lifetime event, so why not learn as much as possible about the boat so you get to enjoy the event all the more? Learn to navigate, learn about the boat. It’s about building up their confidence and their awareness of what’s going on around them.”
This year sees the ninth staging of the Clipper race. Will you be jealous when you watch the race start?
”It depends what I’m doing at the time. I love seeing the start and all the excitement and nerves among the crews. They’re really good sailors by the time they come back, and that’s probably one of the things I get most satisfaction from. It’s not just the sailing – you notice the extra self-confidence and it really shows.”
Mark Coughlan @coffers83

Read more at http://www.sport-mag...Xee9CGox5LJj.99



#45 WillC

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 04:42 PM

These things are designed for one thing.

Having as many jobs on board as possible so everyone feels involved.

The reality (that I've experienced from people I've met who have done it) is that you end up with 20,000 ocean racing miles but can't sail. You can however make a wicked brew and know how to put a winch handle in the right place.


Totally agree with this

#46 Lightfoot

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 05:13 PM

Here are the details on the Clipper Boats. I'm looking for VO 70 or VO 65 specs to compare


Item


Imperial

Metric

Length overall

75’6’’

23m

Beam

18’6’’

5.65m

Draft

9’10’’

3m

Mainsail area

1,326 ft2

123.19 m2

Headsail area

1,812.97 ft2

168.43 m2

Assymetric spinnaker area

3,555.75 ft2

330.34 m2

Mast height (from waterline)

95 ft

29 m

Displacement

31.19 UK long ton

31,700 kg

Bulb Keel

11.81 UK long ton

12,000 kg


#47 Racing Rigo

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 05:16 PM

Anything like this which brings new people into the sport is a good thing. Anyone who can afford to do this, will be a potential boat owner in the future in my reckoning.

We should all support it whole-heartedly. Agreed, the old boats looked sh!t and I was right there with everyone else taking the p!ss, but what Clipper has done here is a master-stroke.

The boats look great to any aspirational sailor, who doesn't have an eye for a light-displacement offshore racer.

Imagine newbies trying to sail a "performance boat" around the world for a moment. They won't have the helming ability to keep the boat at the right angle of heel to avoid excessive slamming - hence the rocker. They won't be able to keep the boat "in the groove" upwind, hence the wide keel chord. They wouldn't be able to get into the shallow harbours, hence the shallow draft. They wouldn't having the trimming / helming ability to avoid a broach, hence the fat rudders. They wouldn't be able to handle a big rig, hence the short rig. They wouldn't have the manoeurvres skills to avoid over-loading a carbon boat, hence the glass hull.

Also - asym is much easier to handle than a pole and a pole is outdated offshore anyway (and some would say inshore as well, for a big boat).

Well done clipper!!!

By the way - many of the Mini Maxi and TP fleet have counter-rotating winches. They all have arrows on!

#48 Left Hook

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 05:36 PM

I agree that the race does good for the sport and kudos to Clipper for putting in the cashola to make sailing a cool looking boat a reality for a lot of adventurous people.

#49 Foolish

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 05:42 PM

What ever happened to the old boats from previous Clipper races? These are not the "high performance" sleds that serious racers would want. Nor are they comfortable cruisers that charter operations would want. Really they have only one purpose, absolute safety in open ocean racing. It is an odd combination. So where are the old boats now?

#50 Kevlar16

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:33 PM

Did 2 legs in 2010-11, Brazil-Cape town , Cape Town- Oz.... I am one of those Old sailors from the IOR days, and very experienced racer. I did the legs for personnel reasons. What stuck me more than any thing else was the total lack of organization at the time of the crew and organization towards vitalling and feeding the crew. 18 people on a sailing yacht require a huge amount of food daily. The answer was to use tinned everything. The yachts then did not have any refrigeration what so ever.
At the end of the Cape Town- Oz leg after 3 weeks 18 people where down to one hot dog for dinner, F*#@ tea, hardly enough to keep you fueled for that next spinnaker change. The last race was a diary of disasters, t-bone collisions in Cape town with serious yacht damages, then the same skipper 25yr old? runs the yacht up on a reef in Indonesia.... Masts get dropped left and right leaving china with one yacht having to motor across the pacific, I guess that crew full filled there sailing dream!!
Gum Boots Johnson has done well in putting asses in bunks and yes he has introduced alot of people to an exciting sport. One day perhaps he will also realize that the days of hard tack and water are over and start to give his victims true value for money instead of robbing them blind, ... but then how else does one pay for a new yacht breeding hippo+ Volvo 70 = Clipper 70

#51 Siggi

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:22 PM

What ever happened to the old boats from previous Clipper races? These are not the "high performance" sleds that serious racers would want. Nor are they comfortable cruisers that charter operations would want. Really they have only one purpose, absolute safety in open ocean racing. It is an odd combination. So where are the old boats now?


Here is one of the Clipper 60's: http://www.boreaadventures.com/ Successfully cruising the north Atlantic, including Greenland, iceland etc...

#52 gregw

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 02:06 AM

As an aside, I believe Alex Thomson (Hugo Boss) got his 'start' skippering one of the earlier boats. So, if you've the money, can shelve your commitments for a while, or are young and see it as a 'career' enhancing step, it could be a way to move your status from amateur to professional maybe?


I got my first taste of ocean sailing on one of the original clipper 60s on a "not" racing leg from Greenland to Iceland against Sir Robin and Alex (they whipped us) and then sailing with them around Iceland:

http://photos.wiltel.../Crew/Alex.html
http://photos.wiltel...Crew/Robin.html

Those old old boats looked dated to a novices eye even when new. But it was really well organised, we got some great training and it was even when we were "not" racing it was like against like. I had an awesome trip that got me totally hooked as I now have my own boat (Archambault 32), am commodore of my local yacht club (MYC) and have now done several cat 1 & 2 races. But despite all my more recent sailing experiences, my avatar on this site is still one of me on the helm of one of those old long keeled lead slugs surfing on (ok surging on (ok exceeding hull speed on)) a mid atlantic swell: http://photos.wiltel...05.GregJ07.html

Sure getting into sailing via club sailing is still proably the best path, but you can do that for years and still not get your bum onto a boat doing serious offshore racing - certainly nothing crossing an ocean. For anybody that wants a total immersion experience (definitely no pun intended), then there is nothing better than the feeling of hard earnt money well spent on something like a leg of the Clipper race.

cheers

#53 8387mike

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 02:07 AM

Last Race was in Oz about the same time as the Sydney to Hobart, would have been a great media boost if the yachts had of competed in that as well

#54 Estar

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 02:33 AM

What ever happened to the old boats from previous Clipper races? These are not the "high performance" sleds that serious racers would want. Nor are they comfortable cruisers that charter operations would want. Really they have only one purpose, absolute safety in open ocean racing. It is an odd combination. So where are the old boats now?


Several of them (3 ?) are down in Ushuaia in the 'cape horn' charter business.

#55 miztified

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 02:37 AM

Did 2 legs in 2010-11, Brazil-Cape town , Cape Town- Oz.... I am one of those Old sailors from the IOR days, and very experienced racer. I did the legs for personnel reasons. What stuck me more than any thing else was the total lack of organization at the time of the crew and organization towards vitalling and feeding the crew. 18 people on a sailing yacht require a huge amount of food daily. The answer was to use tinned everything. The yachts then did not have any refrigeration what so ever.
At the end of the Cape Town- Oz leg after 3 weeks 18 people where down to one hot dog for dinner, F*#@ tea, hardly enough to keep you fueled for that next spinnaker change. The last race was a diary of disasters, t-bone collisions in Cape town with serious yacht damages, then the same skipper 25yr old? runs the yacht up on a reef in Indonesia.... Masts get dropped left and right leaving china with one yacht having to motor across the pacific, I guess that crew full filled there sailing dream!!
Gum Boots Johnson has done well in putting asses in bunks and yes he has introduced a lot of people to an exciting sport. One day perhaps he will also realize that the days of hard tack and water are over and start to give his victims true value for money instead of robbing them blind, ... but then how else does one pay for a new yacht breeding hippo+ Volvo 70 = Clipper 70


So Kevlar - did you really feel you were robbed? Isn't it up to the crew of each boat to organize their own provisioning (yes I know within a budget) so if one crew runs out it's because of their own poor planning? It's not a responsibility I'd like to take on, for sure!

#56 gregw

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 03:49 AM

Did 2 legs in 2010-11, Brazil-Cape town , Cape Town- Oz.... I am one of those Old sailors from the IOR days, and very experienced racer. I did the legs for personnel reasons. What stuck me more than any thing else was the total lack of organization at the time of the crew and organization towards vitalling and feeding the crew. 18 people on a sailing yacht require a huge amount of food daily. The answer was to use tinned everything. The yachts then did not have any refrigeration what so ever.
At the end of the Cape Town- Oz leg after 3 weeks 18 people where down to one hot dog for dinner, F*#@ tea, hardly enough to keep you fueled for that next spinnaker change. The last race was a diary of disasters, t-bone collisions in Cape town with serious yacht damages, then the same skipper 25yr old? runs the yacht up on a reef in Indonesia.... Masts get dropped left and right leaving china with one yacht having to motor across the pacific, I guess that crew full filled there sailing dream!!
Gum Boots Johnson has done well in putting asses in bunks and yes he has introduced alot of people to an exciting sport. One day perhaps he will also realize that the days of hard tack and water are over and start to give his victims true value for money instead of robbing them blind, ... but then how else does one pay for a new yacht breeding hippo+ Volvo 70 = Clipper 70


Refrigeration!?!? I don't think a more modern racing experience is to defrost another lamb rost! Rather it is often just a choice between the brown, the red or the yellow rehydrated "stew". Tinned food is a luxury albeit a very dated heavy one! Also I think that running low on food near the end of the race is a pretty common experience.

Plus while last race did have it's problems, again that is not unlike the Volvo / vendee globe which has had its fair share of dismasting, broken boats, collissions etc. Obviously it would be better for clipper to avoid such things, but they are hardly on their own suffering such issues.

I will admit that sailing the RKJ style is a bit belts and braces - which I think is actually part of the charm as well as being necessitated by the economics. After our leg, we nick named RKJ the Knox Nutter and the following poem was read out to him at the end of the trip: http://photos.wiltel...noxnutter.html. Not everybody is going to enjoy the experience and it's not cheap, but then I also think it's a bit much to say the crew are being robbed blind.

#57 Terrorvision

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:04 AM

What ever happened to the old boats from previous Clipper races? These are not the "high performance" sleds that serious racers would want. Nor are they comfortable cruisers that charter operations would want. Really they have only one purpose, absolute safety in open ocean racing. It is an odd combination. So where are the old boats now?


There's one in Hong Kong being used for Outward Bound training kids/young adults in a sort of Boy Scouts type affair. Very well run and well looked after boat. I remember lifting the mast out and seeing the scales tip over 1 tonne!

#58 twomasts

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:04 AM


What ever happened to the old boats from previous Clipper races? These are not the "high performance" sleds that serious racers would want. Nor are they comfortable cruisers that charter operations would want. Really they have only one purpose, absolute safety in open ocean racing. It is an odd combination. So where are the old boats now?


Several of them (3 ?) are down in Ushuaia in the 'cape horn' charter business.

Estar, I'm afraid you are confusing them with Chay Blyth's Challenge yachts. There are 3 of the 67's down in Ushaia doing the Antarctic runs. One of them refuelled Bernard Stamms Vendee ride recently. Challenge yachts and races were always better than Clipper, but Challenge spent more money on the boats than they earn't so folded 5 years ago.

#59 Ozee Adventure

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 01:53 PM

Nothing anyone has said implies they know best or have nothing else to learn. Not understanding why anyone would do this - sure that's clear. I have no idea why anyone would fork out that sort of cash to do this. Especially when from my experience - ie people I've met - it seems that the objectives of clipper do not include creating good all round sailors.

It has often made me wonder why there isn't a company out there charging people to spend a year campaigning a mini maxi in all the big events around the globe. Surely its viable at 15 x £30k revenue.



From all the marketing I've seen, it's not about sailing, or turning people into sailors. It's about an achievable adventure for the average bloke/woman in the street. If you want to learn to sail, there are better ways of doing it - the RYA has a whole structure of courses.

Ondeck offer regattas in their Farr65s. Went bust, but seem to have been restructured and are operating again. Thing about a year doing regattas is that you don't come back saying "I've just sailed round the world". AFAIAA, the majority of Clipper people only do a leg or two anyway: "I've just sailed across the Atlantic/Pacific".


Yup in the last race only 52 did the whole way around & most were very personal reasons that mostly didn't have anything to do with sailing.

I saved for over a year but people I talked to some had taken 5+ years to get their feet on the boat. No other way I could have sailed country to country I can't even get on the bow in my own home town never mind up the pole to spike as a squall rolls in or the responsibility of radar watch in the middle of the Chinese fishing fleet or Singapore boat parking lot. At home my Chilli is my major skill (when i don't sleep thru radio skeds or set the place on fire)!

I'm still not a good sailor but I can pull my weight at anything, including trouble shooting & keeping the boat going in 50 foot waves (re hanking on the bow & tking my turn to helm even tho I can only do 1/2 the time the boys can - at least they got a regular break & rotation) & have most of my helming miles in my whole life under storm sails. Oh & I can fix those sails too... altho no one would let me applique anything on them :(

I think everything has been said :)

#60 Presuming Ed

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 04:51 PM

IIRC, Clipper are now on their third fleet. There were the original Pedrick 60s - very trad looking. Then the Dubois 68s, which are the boats now being replaced.

Chay Blyth's Challenge Business had two fleets - the 67s and then the 72s. All steel. Brick shithose construction for the wrong way Southern Ocean race -including Capes Horn and Good Hope.

#61 A CheeseHead

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 07:24 PM



Clealry a whole lot ignorant pricks here such good yachters that can't ever learn anything more about sailing or themselves.
So stay secure they in your infalliable knowledge that you are better than any Clipper crew and the Clipper people are just punters.

Clipper just has different rules to the ones you are used to.

Some are really clever like the points penalty for sail damage.
The daily organization of the crew to keep things running is interesting.
The old boats are quite equal (Team Australia was Qingdao this time)
The North Pacific legs are more about survival than racing

These boats look fine for the job they have to do.
The limiting factor is draft which reflects in stability which reflects in sail power.
Also the boats have to carry quite a load so have to be big volume.

But at the end of the day it is about the people.
And people do the race or parts of the race for all different reasons.

A good few people here could not hack it not becuase they can't sail a boat but because they are failures as people.
You might want to think about that one!

The only downside is that Clipper becomes a cult (but sort of a good cult) for those who do it.
So I might need help with an intervention!


+100..........Some very good points here. In the 80's and 90's I did many years of yacht deliveries and i too found the best crew in the end were the ones with the best people skills. Getting along in confined space for long periods is by far the hardest chellenge IMO. People can be trained to get the boat around safely but alot can't be trained to be compliant humans in the group.


+1000....go Lydia. Very easy to sit in front of a screen and criticize. Not so easy to rearrange your life for a year or so and commit to something like Clipper. And what else is there like Clipper?


I have a friend who did the run from China to San Francisco. He started out a non-sailor, may stick with it. He was quite clear about how many hopelessly boring hours it involved, but came away with respect for his friends who race offshore.

#62 Sailbydate

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 08:47 PM


As an aside, I believe Alex Thomson (Hugo Boss) got his 'start' skippering one of the earlier boats. So, if you've the money, can shelve your commitments for a while, or are young and see it as a 'career' enhancing step, it could be a way to move your status from amateur to professional maybe?


I got my first taste of ocean sailing on one of the original clipper 60s on a "not" racing leg from Greenland to Iceland against Sir Robin and Alex (they whipped us) and then sailing with them around Iceland:

http://photos.wiltel.../Crew/Alex.html
http://photos.wiltel...Crew/Robin.html

Those old old boats looked dated to a novices eye even when new. But it was really well organised, we got some great training and it was even when we were "not" racing it was like against like. I had an awesome trip that got me totally hooked as I now have my own boat (Archambault 32), am commodore of my local yacht club (MYC) and have now done several cat 1 & 2 races. But despite all my more recent sailing experiences, my avatar on this site is still one of me on the helm of one of those old long keeled lead slugs surfing on (ok surging on (ok exceeding hull speed on)) a mid atlantic swell: http://photos.wiltel...05.GregJ07.html

Sure getting into sailing via club sailing is still proably the best path, but you can do that for years and still not get your bum onto a boat doing serious offshore racing - certainly nothing crossing an ocean. For anybody that wants a total immersion experience (definitely no pun intended), then there is nothing better than the feeling of hard earnt money well spent on something like a leg of the Clipper race.

cheers


Great feedback. Thanks for sharing your Clipper experiences and the pics.

#63 Ozee Adventure

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:00 PM

Last Race was in Oz about the same time as the Sydney to Hobart, would have been a great media boost if the yachts had of competed in that as well

Clipper 68s do not have Hobart stability so CYCA said no!

#64 Essex

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:17 AM

I have a friend did half way around on the original clipper - think it was in 96 ?
Said they each got a locker maybe 1 or 2 cubic feet max to keep all their crap in (foulies everything),
Ever since he has been super efficient at packing his luggage. No checked bags for him anymore.
I once mentioned I had seen Dave Pedrick at a boat show and he got very serious and said "I need to meet him, I have a few things I would like to to say about living in his design for 4 months".
Having done a bermuda prior to clipper, it wasn't long into the training before he was approached about being a watch captain.
A good nav and boat organizer but jeez, does seem to suffer from a lot a unplanned gybes in the middle of the night.

#65 Gunny

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:18 AM

I worked on the sails for the old boats. From afar they looked like Kevlar but they were actually Dacron painted gold. Overbuilt sails just like the boat. I suspect they lasted so long as they were so stretchy. The new boat looks like the old sails, fancy by amateur standards but pretty pathetic from any other standards. The rig looks shorter than the hull! Reminds me of a macgregor 65 rig.


#66 Matt B

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 02:28 PM

Clearly a nerve has been touched.

Nothing anyone has said implies they know best or have nothing else to learn. Not understanding why anyone would do this - sure that's clear. I have no idea why anyone would fork out that sort of cash to do this. Especially when from my experience - ie people I've met - it seems that the objectives of clipper do not include creating good all round sailors.

It has often made me wonder why there isn't a company out there charging people to spend a year campaigning a mini maxi in all the big events around the globe. Surely its viable at 15 x £30k revenue.

Use of the word Punter is not offensive unless your knickers are already in a twist. In which case you are likely to be offended by anything that implies the clipper race is less than awesome.

Maybe you do need an intervention. :)

30k x 15 is not even close to the amount of boat bucks needed to sail a mini maxi for a year. That wouldn't be even close to enough for a TP 52.

This event is more comparable to climbing Everest. People are here for the challenge, adventure and the life skills they will obtain. THis isn't about learning to sail. If you want to do that, go to J-world. It is the entire experience. so about $65k US gets you arouns the world plus all of the training that goes along with it. That is is only about $175 a day given a round number of 350 days. I get it, they don't take part every day, but even cut in half it is only about $300 a day, and they feed you. I have no idea what it costs to clinb Everest, but I'm guessing it is at least that much.

The boat? Well not so great. Looks like a Beneteau Sense 70. AKA Beach Ball with a chine.

The comment about runners above - They are not Runners. They are Check stays. Runners hold the rig up... Checks keep it in CHECK. They help keep the pumping down, help trim the main, and support the mast at the locataion of the inner forestay (where they act more like runners, but still are'nt).

#67 Matt B

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 02:33 PM

Here are the details on the Clipper Boats. I'm looking for VO 70 or VO 65 specs to compare


Item

Imperial
Metric
Length overall
75’6’’
23m
Beam
18’6’’
5.65m
Draft
9’10’’
3m
Mainsail area
1,326 ft2
123.19 m2
Headsail area
1,812.97 ft2
168.43 m2
Assymetric spinnaker area
3,555.75 ft2
330.34 m2
Mast height (from waterline)
95 ft
29 m
Displacement
31.19 UK long ton
31,700 kg
Bulb Keel
11.81 UK long ton
12,000 kg


Why would you compare? There is absolutely nothing about this adventure and the two races you are comparing to that is alike. Other than sailing around the world.
You can drive a NASCAR type car for a daily fee. It is not the same car that Rusty Stuart is taking around the loop at Daytona.

#68 Drop Bear.

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:12 AM

30k x 15 is not even close to the amount of boat bucks needed to sail a mini maxi for a year. That wouldn't be even close to enough for a TP 52.


Not professionally no. A lot of cost for a 2 million tp campaign is in crew costs, logistics and new sails constantly.

Clipper and this imaginary company have lower expectations, two non rock star crew and lower sail expectations and move on their own bottom.

450k (720k usd) is a fair chunk.

Whether you'd get customers who knows. As someone above said it's not the same proposition as clipper.

And the boat may not be in any condition to sell by the end!

#69 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:22 PM

That 720k still isn't close to the actual costs for a boat's share of the whole thing, including paying down the debt on the new boats. RKJ's model gets a lot of money from the host ports, the city sponsors, without which the Clipper would be a lot more expensive - or dead. It's funny - a lot of the Clipper staff came over to run the Velux race, and they basically killed off one of the most historic ocean races in existence, while burning a sponsor who put in 20+ million to that race and were ready to do more in the sport. Meanwhile, the Clipper goes from success to success. Stick with what you know, I guess - and RKJ clearly knows punters and slow boats.

#70 Potter

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 07:47 PM

That 720k still isn't close to the actual costs for a boat's share of the whole thing, including paying down the debt on the new boats. RKJ's model gets a lot of money from the host ports, the city sponsors, without which the Clipper would be a lot more expensive - or dead. It's funny - a lot of the Clipper staff came over to run the Velux race, and they basically killed off one of the most historic ocean races in existence, while burning a sponsor who put in 20+ million to that race and were ready to do more in the sport. Meanwhile, the Clipper goes from success to success. Stick with what you know, I guess - and RKJ clearly knows punters and slow boats.

You are a bit harsh about saying they burnt Velux and destroyed the 5 Oceans. There was a lot more to it than the Clipper organisation, though for sure there was a couple of times that they did not help themselves. IMOCA basically were paid to support the Barcelona Race over the 5 Oceans. FNOB had government backing to be able to guarantee a minimum number of entries, including paying the likes of Mich Desj to turn up and race. Funnily enough IMOCA voted to go with BWR over FNOB. That, and the fact that for a long time teams had been saying that the 5 Oceans was just too expensive because of the logistics required around the stops.
At the time RKJ and IMOCA were arguing, and this certainly did not help matters. However saying it was just down to RKJ and Clipper is plain wrong.

#71 mad

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:08 PM


Nothing anyone has said implies they know best or have nothing else to learn. Not understanding why anyone would do this - sure that's clear. I have no idea why anyone would fork out that sort of cash to do this. Especially when from my experience - ie people I've met - it seems that the objectives of clipper do not include creating good all round sailors.

It has often made me wonder why there isn't a company out there charging people to spend a year campaigning a mini maxi in all the big events around the globe. Surely its viable at 15 x £30k revenue.



From all the marketing I've seen, it's not about sailing, or turning people into sailors. It's about an achievable adventure for the average bloke/woman in the street. If you want to learn to sail, there are better ways of doing it - the RYA has a whole structure of courses.

Ondeck offer regattas in their Farr65s. Went bust, but seem to have been restructured and are operating again. Thing about a year doing regattas is that you don't come back saying "I've just sailed round the world". AFAIAA, the majority of Clipper people only do a leg or two anyway: "I've just sailed across the Atlantic/Pacific".


Yup in the last race only 52 did the whole way around & most were very personal reasons that mostly didn't have anything to do with sailing.

I saved for over a year but people I talked to some had taken 5+ years to get their feet on the boat. No other way I could have sailed country to country I can't even get on the bow in my own home town never mind up the pole to spike as a squall rolls in or the responsibility of radar watch in the middle of the Chinese fishing fleet or Singapore boat parking lot. At home my Chilli is my major skill (when i don't sleep thru radio skeds or set the place on fire)!

I'm still not a good sailor but I can pull my weight at anything, including trouble shooting & keeping the boat going in 50 foot waves (re hanking on the bow & tking my turn to helm even tho I can only do 1/2 the time the boys can - at least they got a regular break & rotation) & have most of my helming miles in my whole life under storm sails. Oh & I can fix those sails too... altho no one would let me applique anything on them :(

I think everything has been said :)

Agreed, thanks for your point of view.


How did you set the galley on fire? :)

#72 Ozee Adventure

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:13 AM



Nothing anyone has said implies they know best or have nothing else to learn. Not understanding why anyone would do this - sure that's clear. I have no idea why anyone would fork out that sort of cash to do this. Especially when from my experience - ie people I've met - it seems that the objectives of clipper do not include creating good all round sailors.

It has often made me wonder why there isn't a company out there charging people to spend a year campaigning a mini maxi in all the big events around the globe. Surely its viable at 15 x £30k revenue.



From all the marketing I've seen, it's not about sailing, or turning people into sailors. It's about an achievable adventure for the average bloke/woman in the street. If you want to learn to sail, there are better ways of doing it - the RYA has a whole structure of courses.

Ondeck offer regattas in their Farr65s. Went bust, but seem to have been restructured and are operating again. Thing about a year doing regattas is that you don't come back saying "I've just sailed round the world". AFAIAA, the majority of Clipper people only do a leg or two anyway: "I've just sailed across the Atlantic/Pacific".


Yup in the last race only 52 did the whole way around & most were very personal reasons that mostly didn't have anything to do with sailing.

I saved for over a year but people I talked to some had taken 5+ years to get their feet on the boat. No other way I could have sailed country to country I can't even get on the bow in my own home town never mind up the pole to spike as a squall rolls in or the responsibility of radar watch in the middle of the Chinese fishing fleet or Singapore boat parking lot. At home my Chilli is my major skill (when i don't sleep thru radio skeds or set the place on fire)!

I'm still not a good sailor but I can pull my weight at anything, including trouble shooting & keeping the boat going in 50 foot waves (re hanking on the bow & tking my turn to helm even tho I can only do 1/2 the time the boys can - at least they got a regular break & rotation) & have most of my helming miles in my whole life under storm sails. Oh & I can fix those sails too... altho no one would let me applique anything on them :(

I think everything has been said :)

Agreed, thanks for your point of view.


How did you set the galley on fire? :)

On a local 250nm race I had a metho puddle I didn't know about & after getting the whole crews meal ready I served myself & put a hot pan in the puddle = poof!
We put blanket/extinguisher on but it had dripped down so when we thought it was out, the flames came again
= big mess, no dinner & my reputation is in tatters!

lydia got reamed a new one, he saw what we were up to & bounced down the compainion way pushing us out of the way, we were only saving hs boat perfectly well!

#73 Presuming Ed

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:04 PM

Oops.

http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/news/533806/survey-throws-up-flaws-on-chinese-built-yachts

Surveys carried out on the new hulls revealed certain points where the infusion of resin had not performed satisfactorily. ‘The resin was not drawn up fully to the gunwhales in some places on some hulls. Where necessary these areas are being ground back and hand laid up so there is no long-term detrimental effect,' a spokeswoman for Clipper said.



#74 Left Hook

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:26 PM

Posted Image

#75 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:52 PM


That 720k still isn't close to the actual costs for a boat's share of the whole thing, including paying down the debt on the new boats. RKJ's model gets a lot of money from the host ports, the city sponsors, without which the Clipper would be a lot more expensive - or dead. It's funny - a lot of the Clipper staff came over to run the Velux race, and they basically killed off one of the most historic ocean races in existence, while burning a sponsor who put in 20+ million to that race and were ready to do more in the sport. Meanwhile, the Clipper goes from success to success. Stick with what you know, I guess - and RKJ clearly knows punters and slow boats.

You are a bit harsh about saying they burnt Velux and destroyed the 5 Oceans. There was a lot more to it than the Clipper organisation, though for sure there was a couple of times that they did not help themselves. IMOCA basically were paid to support the Barcelona Race over the 5 Oceans. FNOB had government backing to be able to guarantee a minimum number of entries, including paying the likes of Mich Desj to turn up and race. Funnily enough IMOCA voted to go with BWR over FNOB. That, and the fact that for a long time teams had been saying that the 5 Oceans was just too expensive because of the logistics required around the stops.
At the time RKJ and IMOCA were arguing, and this certainly did not help matters. However saying it was just down to RKJ and Clipper is plain wrong.


I was there on the ground watching the whole debacle, and I met with VELUX's CEO to discuss and then we remained friends. They got burned hard after dropping over 20 million dollars on the race, and they won't be back to the sport at that kind of level. Yes, IMOCA screwed RKJ when RKJ stood up to them and tried to split the Open 60 into a subclass of Eco 60 - no surprise there. It's also no surprise that the French didn't back a British run race with a Danish sponsor over a Spanish race with French and Spanish sponsors, but was that really a tough one to predict? Never mind the teams' difficulties in getting their 'guaranteed' pay from Clipper for the logistics and deposit returns, never mind the extremely weak PR work and media exposure. Never mind the questionable clip book values from the 2005 race that helped get them that 20+ million...all in all, yet another bad chapter in the world of yacht racing and sponsor fulfillment...

FNOB is back with a vengeance and it looks like the next BWR will be a good one. Hope to see your better half there, and anything we can do to help...just say the word.

#76 Presuming Ed

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 09:49 PM

Old boats. Don't look too shabby.


#77 wombat 12m

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 09:44 PM

I defy anyone to look at that video and say anything other than 'holy fuck'...that is one hell of a surf that any sailor on the planet would be proud of . Amateur or pro...long live Clipper!!

#78 Sailbydate

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 03:17 AM

Old boats. Don't look too shabby.


Agree. That's one wild ride.

#79 Bad Andy

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:30 PM

So is anyone going on the Clipper Cup this time around?

#80 Soley

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:33 AM

Out of all the miles those boats have done from a fleet of ten or twelve, we have a ONE video of a boat surfing for 45 seconds, in what looks to be perfect conditions for it....meh.

#81 nroose

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 06:54 AM

Out of all the miles those boats have done from a fleet of ten or twelve, we have a ONE video of a boat surfing for 45 seconds, in what looks to be perfect conditions for it....meh.

There is quite a bit of footage of these boats. But that's not really what they are about. The whole point is for the experience the sailors get, not the media of them sailing.

#82 Presuming Ed

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 09:50 AM

So is anyone going on the Clipper Cup this time around?

[Pedant hat]
The Clipper Cup was something different. [/PH]

http://www.portdougl...81-honour-board

(OT: An actual pedant hat)

Posted Image

#83 DtM

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:26 AM

Hmmmm.

 

Move away slowly ............



#84 tonycastro

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 03:01 PM

As the article says " A very smart Design" which coming Tony Castro's office is not unusual !!!

Yes many coments are correct, underpowered, etc all this was designed for a purpose and on purpose.... Neverthless Slow it is not  as they achieved 30Knots + on the race so far regularly..!!!. 



#85 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 03:28 PM

Thanks Tony, but remember you can get a J/24 to hit 20 knots if you throw it off a big enough wave.

 

Do you have a link for some of that high-speed action? 

 

Sorry to have missed you in Falmouth.



#86 knucklehead

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 02:54 PM

The fleet arrived in Cape Town over the weekend.

Some nice arrival pics on the Clipper website: https://www.clipperr....com/gallery/41



#87 Adriafan

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 07:38 PM

Since I came across this "race" and I looked to the first images of the new "racer" I was shocked. This boat is just contrary to any evolution in the sailing worl since Olin Stephens.

How can anybody not observe the most important physics of water displacement against speed and vector calculations in regards to sail surface and keel design?

It seems obvious to me that the "famous" yacht designer Tony Castro (he is a Designer for Motoryachts, sailing racers are designed by the Bruce Farrs or Reichel/Pugh or many others. This designer simply has no clue of what he was doing, maybe also the input from the organizers of the "race" were wrong and also these guys do not understand that a safe boat must not be heavy and have hull like a dead whale, but lightweight and build with modern strong materials. Modern boats have a flat hull under the waterline, these boats seem to be build to displace as much water as possible.... and they have no lue of RM, that requires deep keels with all the weight at the end and not short keels which are thick and have the weight ditributed allover the keel... incredible.

The result? In the legs sailed until now, the Clipper 70 sailed with average speeds of nealy the half of the Volvo 70 boats, which are not leightweight also.  A shame, independently from the crew, professionals or not.

The video shown here in the forum wih a boat surfing makes me laugh, a Volvo 70 has been kept surfing for 24 hours, that makes average speed... this what we see here is just something you can get from ANY cruising saling yacht, if you have the right wind and hit a good wave.

Oh my goodness...

These boats are going to "compete" in the Syney to Hobart race at the end of this year, which is a real race, with real sailors and modern, fast boats. The Clipper 70th are not modern, they are new, but "born old". The comparison with the boats in that race will show that they can compete (maybe) with a modern 35-40 footer... and any modern 70 foot boat will arrive 1 day ahead.

What a shame.

Is this a commercial operation or what???

Let's tell the truth!



#88 winchfodder

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 08:45 PM

Tony Castro has designed many successful racing yachts, maybe not in the Farr league - but they have had some duds as well.

 

Motot yachts are a recent addition to his work.

 

The Clipper 70 was built to a very narrow design brief: To look fast like a Volvo 70 or an IMOCA60, whilst being safe and steady for paying amateur crews who do not want to be on the edge of their bunks for days on end. The boats also had to be cheap, nothing high tech of lightweight, just safe and steady. 10.3 knots to Cape Town was not bad really considering. Not much sail area and no fancy sails.

 

How about the Laser SB3 or the new Portuguese foling C-Class cat for the Little America's Cup.

 

Suggest you do your homework before slagging off a naval architect who has been working hard with a fair amount of success over the years.

 

http://www.tonycastr...ements/all.html

 

1988 MCDONALDS Quarter Ton Cup Worlds1st

 

 

1981JUSTINE IIIOne Ton World Cup1st (Only yacht ever to win all 5 races!!

1983JUSTINE IV. Admirals Cup Top Offshore Admiral's Cupper

 

  •  
  •  
  •  



#89 DtM

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:17 PM

Agree. A boat designed to the specific requirements of the task. Get a bunch of less experienced sailors around the world safely. Mind you by the time they do even one leg they will have done a significant number of ocean miles !!!

#90 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:23 PM

Is this a commercial operation or what???

Even the most brief research will show you that this is indeed a fully commercial operation between what are essentially oceangoing buses with go-fast decals and spoilers on them.  Racing buses may not be as fun as racing sportscars, but it's still racing.

 

The clipper doesn't take itself too seriously, it makes a ton of money, and it introduces more people to blue water racing than any other organization.  Not a bad thing in my book.  Good for rich people who want to learn to sail big boats for a few thousands bucks per passage.  Are there better options? Sure, but this one is pretty convenient.



#91 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:28 PM

Tony Castro has designed many successful racing yachts, maybe not in the Farr league - but they have had some duds as well.

 

Motot yachts are a recent addition to his work.

 

The Clipper 70 was built to a very narrow design brief: To look fast like a Volvo 70 or an IMOCA60, whilst being safe and steady for paying amateur crews who do not want to be on the edge of their bunks for days on end. The boats also had to be cheap, nothing high tech of lightweight, just safe and steady. 10.3 knots to Cape Town was not bad really considering. Not much sail area and no fancy sails.

 

How about the Laser SB3 or the new Portuguese foling C-Class cat for the Little America's Cup.

 

Suggest you do your homework before slagging off a naval architect who has been working hard with a fair amount of success over the years.

 

http://www.tonycastr...ements/all.html

 

1988 MCDONALDS Quarter Ton Cup Worlds1st

 

 

1981JUSTINE IIIOne Ton World Cup1st (Only yacht ever to win all 5 races!!

1983JUSTINE IV. Admirals Cup Top Offshore Admiral's Cupper

 

  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  

Let's be honest now fodder: You don't go to Castro when you want a top level racing boat.  You go to Castro when you don't have a lot of budget for a designer and you have a good idea what you want already.  Tony hasn't designed any decent modern racing boats in a really, really long time.



#92 winchfodder

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 10:25 PM

 

Tony Castro has designed many successful racing yachts, maybe not in the Farr league - but they have had some duds as well.

 

Motot yachts are a recent addition to his work.

 

The Clipper 70 was built to a very narrow design brief: To look fast like a Volvo 70 or an IMOCA60, whilst being safe and steady for paying amateur crews who do not want to be on the edge of their bunks for days on end. The boats also had to be cheap, nothing high tech of lightweight, just safe and steady. 10.3 knots to Cape Town was not bad really considering. Not much sail area and no fancy sails.

 

How about the Laser SB3 or the new Portuguese foling C-Class cat for the Little America's Cup.

 

Suggest you do your homework before slagging off a naval architect who has been working hard with a fair amount of success over the years.

 

http://www.tonycastr...ements/all.html

 

1988 MCDONALDS Quarter Ton Cup Worlds1st

 

 

1981JUSTINE IIIOne Ton World Cup1st (Only yacht ever to win all 5 races!!

1983JUSTINE IV. Admirals Cup Top Offshore Admiral's Cupper

 

  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  

Let's be honest now fodder: You don't go to Castro when you want a top level racing boat.  You go to Castro when you don't have a lot of budget for a designer and you have a good idea what you want already.  Tony hasn't designed any decent modern racing boats in a really, really long time.

 

OK, Mr C. Yes, I agree I would not be knocking on the Portuguese maestro's door for a race boat right now, or ever for that matter, just felt that he deserved a little bit of support from Adriafan's rubbishing. He can design to a brief and often gets the numbers about right (you can't blame him for the Blue Arrow break-up as he was part of a team and as for the C Class debacle, I am not sure who to blame, but I am sure you have a better handle on that!



#93 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 11:31 PM

Dunno if it is about blame as much as about track record.  Castro just doesn't really have one for racing sailboats, at least not this century.



#94 nroose

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 06:13 AM

I think I would rather go 30 on a Clipper 70 than 20 on a J24...  More fun, and more safe.  More money too...



#95 Adriafan

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:22 PM

Back after the real race Sydney - Hobart... and coming back to my post from the 28th of october...

As predicted the clipper 70th arrived in Hobart not with any of the big boats like the older Volvo 70th of 60 feet or 50 feet... but amond all cruising boats of 37, 40, 45 feet... waoh, what a success...

I repeat my staement of october, these boats symply are not racing boat, but ugly slow cruisers!

No homework on Tony Castro has to be done guys... and it is a big big mistake to think that heavy boats are stronger than lighter ones. and that sailing around the world with these may be safer. Absolutely not.

The price difference in buildng in sandwhich with carbon fibres nd single skin traditional is not as big as you may think.

However, a happy ney year to all of you!

and.... sail faster!!!!!



#96 forss

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:35 PM

Crew couldn't handle faster boat anyway.
70ft 4ktsb is good enough for clipper sailors.

#97 couchsurfer

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 03:52 PM

.

...just heard an interview on local radio that local sailor Eric Holden is skipper of the lead boat in this 'race'.

 

...Eric sounded rather diplomatic about the 'challenges and rewards' involved--I'm sure he's going through -quite- an experience!



#98 Left Hook

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 04:05 PM

Noticed in their S2H video that all of the vinyl hull graphics are falling off these boats. Uglyyyyyy.

#99 couchsurfer

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 04:08 PM

Noticed in their S2H video that all of the vinyl hull graphics are falling off these boats. Uglyyyyyy.

.

...I imagine that's the -least- of their problems! :mellow:



#100 Adriafan

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 06:58 PM

Crew couldn't handle faster boat anyway.
70ft 4ktsb is good enough for clipper sailors.

this makes no sense. For shure they could not take advantage of all the potential of faster boats, but thay could handle them even better than these bathtubs. I repeat, slower does not mean safer and easier to sail, but more dangerous ad delicate.

As the clipper sailors pay good money for their trip they should also sail on good boats.

Everyone of us would really feel frustrated on board of a Clipper 70.






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