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J29/J30 spinnaker techniques -- hatch or companionway?


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#1 bulbouskeel

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:07 PM

I will have access to a J30 for part of this spring and summer in exchange for getting it set up and doing some rigging for the owner. Going to try racing it, as I have never sailed on one and it looks like tons of fun with plenty of room for beer and a female-friendly head setup.

Got me to wondering, how do you 29/30 guys do the spinnaker when sailing around the marks? Do you hoist it out of the front hatch, or just set things up like a big J24 and hoist out of the companionway?

I mean, we'll try it both ways, but how do you old salts do it? I guess I'm wondering if the companionway method will work with a bigger chute. Sure works great on J24s -- you really never have problems with twists, etc. if you prefeed it correctly on the leeward side of the genoa/jib; there's really nothing that can go wrong in terms of hoisting and getting it set.

I'm thinking the forward hatch would be a pain in terms of threading the halyard correctly around the jibsheets depending whether you decide to do a weather or leeward strip, and hoisting it out of there it'd be a little more prone to hourglassing and just plain slower. Is this so?

(Also, does the continuous topping lift/downhaul setup that has become pretty standard on J24s work on the bigger boats? I think I've seen bridle-less poies for the 29/30, but I can't quite remember.)

#2 Bump-n-Grind

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:23 PM

foreward hatch

#3 bulbouskeel

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:30 PM

BnG, what's the advantage of using the hatch? Don't you have to send someone down below?

#4 ro!

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 08:11 PM

BnG, what's the advantage of using the hatch? Don't you have to send someone down below?


Just like you would hang a spin bag in the companion way of a j24, find a way to hang a spin bag below the forward hatch, then with a little care the spin will drop in and hoist out without twists.

#5 bloodshot

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 09:50 PM

we used to band our chute and bring it right our the front hatch. easy peasy lemon squeezy.

#6 Left Hook

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 02:48 AM

I will have access to a J30 for part of this spring and summer in exchange for getting it set up and doing some rigging for the owner. Going to try racing it, as I have never sailed on one and it looks like tons of fun with plenty of room for beer and a female-friendly head setup.

Got me to wondering, how do you 29/30 guys do the spinnaker when sailing around the marks? Do you hoist it out of the front hatch, or just set things up like a big J24 and hoist out of the companionway?

I mean, we'll try it both ways, but how do you old salts do it? I guess I'm wondering if the companionway method will work with a bigger chute. Sure works great on J24s -- you really never have problems with twists, etc. if you prefeed it correctly on the leeward side of the genoa/jib; there's really nothing that can go wrong in terms of hoisting and getting it set.

I'm thinking the forward hatch would be a pain in terms of threading the halyard correctly around the jibsheets depending whether you decide to do a weather or leeward strip, and hoisting it out of there it'd be a little more prone to hourglassing and just plain slower. Is this so?

(Also, does the continuous topping lift/downhaul setup that has become pretty standard on J24s work on the bigger boats? I think I've seen bridle-less poies for the 29/30, but I can't quite remember.)


Bulbouskeel, come to the CPYC One Design Regatta the first weekend of June. We've had a J/30 OD start for the last 12+ years and already have 4 signed up.

#7 Bump-n-Grind

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 05:21 AM

BnG, what's the advantage of using the hatch? Don't you have to send someone down below?

Why would ya? if ya do a leeward douse on starboard gybe, the kite comes in under the headsail and straight down the hatch. leave it all connect and yer good to go. coming into leeward mark on port: jib up, lose the pole, weather douse kite goes down the hole still good to go unless you disconnect anything. only time you'd really have to send someone down is if you disconnect something from the kite.
I raced a J30 for many years and once I got the bowman spun up we very rarely had pack a chute or send anyone down below.
once you've got the kite down, you might have your bowman arrange the corners of the sail and bring the halyard back to the mast to a shackle to keep it from flopping around.. put the hatch down on top of the corners to keep it all together.. if you're in rough seas this might not be such a good idea, but here on the Chesbay we didn't see that many conditions warranted doing it any other way.

#8 dogwatch

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:00 AM

^

On a 30 footer (not a J) we use the companionway. The kite is then accessible from the cockpit if we need to make adjustments. This minimises time spent on the bow (weight on bow = slow) and I can't imagine doing it any other way on a boat of this size.

#9 Chinook

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 01:38 PM

Definitely the forward hatch. The cockpit is relatively small and the companionway pretty far aft so if it comes down messy in the companionway you are probably not going to be able to do important things like trimming the sails still up. We always launched and doused out of the hatch and only sent someone below if we were sailing with extra hands. If the chute came down messy we might send someone to run the tapes but once we got the technique right that was pretty rare.

#10 bulbouskeel

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 03:45 PM

^

On a 30 footer (not a J) we use the companionway. The kite is then accessible from the cockpit if we need to make adjustments. This minimises time spent on the bow (weight on bow = slow) and I can't imagine doing it any other way on a boat of this size.



That's what I would have guessed -- 100% of racing J24s do it that way -- but these other guys are clearly advocating the front hatch. The thing that I like about using the companionway is, if the pit person is halfway decent, you come steaming into the weather mark with the chute stretched out and several feet above the foot of the genoa, so all you have to do is bear away and hoist, pull back the pole a little, and it fills in .1 second.

I'll have to try the companionway thing, but I don't see how it would be as quick since somebody has to physically guide it all underneath the genoa as you prefeed and then hoist. You also can't very well ease the genoa until you've hoisted, right?

Anyhow, we'll try it both ways, it's just a little off-season wondering.

#11 ~HHN92~

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 04:34 PM

On a 24 the halyards are being handled at the mast. On the bigger boat someone is in the companionway 'pit' with a ton of line going everywhere.

Go with the forward hatch. If done well the weight forward for a second will be minimal. Especially faster on the hoist if there is not a hundred feet of halyard going up with it.

#12 4deckgye

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 01:11 PM


BnG, what's the advantage of using the hatch? Don't you have to send someone down below?

Why would ya? if ya do a leeward douse on starboard gybe, the kite comes in under the headsail and straight down the hatch. leave it all connect and yer good to go. coming into leeward mark on port: jib up, lose the pole, weather douse kite goes down the hole still good to go unless you disconnect anything. only time you'd really have to send someone down is if you disconnect something from the kite.
I raced a J30 for many years and once I got the bowman spun up we very rarely had pack a chute or send anyone down below.
once you've got the kite down, you might have your bowman arrange the corners of the sail and bring the halyard back to the mast to a shackle to keep it from flopping around.. put the hatch down on top of the corners to keep it all together.. if you're in rough seas this might not be such a good idea, but here on the Chesbay we didn't see that many conditions warranted doing it any other way.

On a 24 the halyards are being handled at the mast. On the bigger boat someone is in the companionway 'pit' with a ton of line going everywhere.

Go with the forward hatch. If done well the weight forward for a second will be minimal. Especially faster on the hoist if there is not a hundred feet of halyard going up with it.


Have to agree with these guys. With the pit tailing the halyard down the companionway there is just too much going on here. Its easier to have your pitman in the companionway while he tails, then having him sitting in your trimmer's lap throwing the tail in the cockpit. Reason 2: If you do the companionway launch you will have a ton of kite hanging out while you are trying to pre-feed. If it is blowing, and the wind catches the kite you are in trouble. Reason 3: While setting someone has to come off the rail during the pre-feed to help the chute out of the companionway / hold it so it doesn't fly out of the boat (If your sailing with no offset, then that is one more person off the rail when beating (slow)). Of course you could try not pre-feeding it and have the gye trimmer ripping the kite around the forestay during the set, but that is a lot of kite to get around.

Forward hatch every time. If you have a good foredeck its really easy, as bump said, no lines need to be detached from the pole or the chute in douses. Just make sure in the gibes that the jib sheet goes on top of the spin pole so you are clear to tack after the take down. The hatch is so large on those boats that you don't need a sewer, the foredeck can douse by himself from the deck and if it goes down smooth and clean you do not need to send someone down to run the tapes.

Goes down clean, comes up clean.

4Deck

#13 chaos!341

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 05:30 PM

we will raise from the forehatch on my j-30....
in a breeze we'll band it for safetys sake....

we do weather drops or jybe drops and bring the sail back in through the companion way...
we sail with 7 so we have a sewer guy (girl actually) that will prep the sail for the next hoist...
foredeck guy, all 135 pounds worth will set the hal and sheets for the next hoist...he's only on the pointy end for a few second for this operation...
we also have a mast man to jump jib halyards but we secure our spin halyards to cam cleats on the mast a la j-24...no body tailing a spin unless one starts to get away and have to put it on a winch...

I carry a .8oz poly and a .6 poly so on a twice around W-L the sewer may just bag the sail and use the next one for the last down hill....

tim

#14 clamslapper

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 05:57 PM

we will raise from the forehatch on my j-30....
in a breeze we'll band it for safetys sake....

we do weather drops or jybe drops and bring the sail back in through the companion way...
we sail with 7 so we have a sewer guy (girl actually) that will prep the sail for the next hoist...
foredeck guy, all 135 pounds worth will set the hal and sheets for the next hoist...he's only on the pointy end for a few second for this operation...
we also have a mast man to jump jib halyards but we secure our spin halyards to cam cleats on the mast a la j-24...no body tailing a spin unless one starts to get away and have to put it on a winch...

I carry a .8oz poly and a .6 poly so on a twice around W-L the sewer may just bag the sail and use the next one for the last down hill....

tim



Say again? You hoist from the front hatch and douse into the companionway? What a lot of work it must be to get it set up for the next hoist.

Having the spin hal on the mast seems like a good call.

Also, I thought that you had to have at least a .75 ounce spinnaker, whether for OD or PHRF (since the PHRF rating is based on OD compliance)!! In fact, I'm certain of it.

#15 esoxproblem

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 07:49 PM

Chaos,

Did you say you run and cleat halyards at the mast.
Head sail and kite both?
If you need to add tension going upwind, are you able to w/out winches?
We just bought a J30 also previously had a 24.
I would like to keep the halyards out of the pit if possible.
Any other set up that has worked well for you?

#16 Chinook

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 08:28 PM

With my 30, we had a cleat on the mast for the spin halyard which worked great. Mounted backwards so when you pulled out from the mast it went into the cleat. We still ran the tail back to a clutch and made sure it was cleaned up shortly after the rounding. With a decent crew, the pit person usually kept up with the mast man, but on gybe sets the mast man wouldn't have a backup and used the cleat. Nice to have it back to the winch to get the last foot or so if the chute filled too soon.

#17 ro!

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 09:08 PM

Chaos,

Did you say you run and cleat halyards at the mast.
Head sail and kite both?
If you need to add tension going upwind, are you able to w/out winches?
We just bought a J30 also previously had a 24.
I would like to keep the halyards out of the pit if possible.
Any other set up that has worked well for you?


On my boat we have the cleats mounted so that when the pit person pulls the line thru his clutch it will pop the halyard out of the mast cleat, then the drop can be controlled from the pit and the halyard can also be tensioned with a pit winch.

#18 Speng

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 02:35 PM

On the 29s I've seen the kite is dropped into the foredeck hatch. Can't see why you'd take it down the companionway especially since i think the 29s run a genoa which make thing more difficult for launches. One thing I noticed is that they generally stripped the sheet/halyard covers so they fit easier under the hatch. Remember 24s don't launch out the hatch partly because they're not allowed to (something about them potentially sinking :ph34r: ).

Does anyone use retriever lines on the kite?

#19 clamslapper

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 04:17 PM

You know, I have sailed a 24 for years and I never knew it was because we weren't allowed to use the hatch. People have gotten so exceptionally good at using the companionway and get the chute up **right now** out of it that I thought the technique had evolved because it was simply more foolproof. You learn something every day!

#20 chaos!341

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 05:26 PM

On the 29s I've seen the kite is dropped into the foredeck hatch. Can't see why you'd take it down the companionway especially since i think the 29s run a genoa which make thing more difficult for launches. One thing I noticed is that they generally stripped the sheet/halyard covers so they fit easier under the hatch. Remember 24s don't launch out the hatch partly because they're not allowed to (something about them potentially sinking :ph34r: ).

Does anyone use retriever lines on the kite?


i've posted earlier that we use different methods for take downs on my j-30...
we often will set the spin bag clipped to the weather side life lines (on the inside) when making a close port tack to the pin and carring a #1 set up for a gybe set...
I communicate with the crew as to what we need to do to fit the tactical situation for the conditions....
also the foredeck guy has to work closely with the mast man as the mast man will be part of the headsail drop as well....
everone knows their places and what needs to be done....
of course i've had the same people sailing with me for 10 to 30 years....

what are "retriever lines".....is that like a heavy air set up when you have a guy and a sheet on each clew?

all this stuff works for us and well....
y'all do what ever floats your boat but just remember no two sets and drops are the same....

tim

#21 PATSYQPATSY

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 06:06 PM

Interesting conversation. On J27's folks chute out of the companionway, usually from some sort of sliding basket a' la J24. It does keep people off of the bow and really works well short handed. Of course the chute is smaller, but it works like a charm. A few, wiser than I, showed this to me a few years back and I will never return to another method. You do need much longer sheets, so if you think that you will just try this one day, it may not work out for you.

Prefeeding is not a problem as the wind is blocked by the jib/genoa, so you just need to keep a little tension on the foot. Bow/mastman sets the pole, goes back to the rail. Pitman/trimmer prefeeds and sets the sheets. When its time to hoist, bow/mastman hoists at the mast with the aforementioned camcleat, pitman/trimmer handles the guy, trimmer moves to his spot. Bow/mastman then moves to cockpit, releasing outhaul on the way, to clean up the halyard and anything else on his way to distributing his weight properly. Lousy owner, skipper, helmsman messes with the mainsheet, backstay and spills his G&T while giving his critique of events.

The douse you can probably envision pretty well, but the nice thing is that the crew member stuffing the chute is seated in the companionway and can achieve a very rapid forearm after forearm recovery of the chute into a bag that is essentially siting in his lap, unless he is old and decrepit like the lousy owner. You can also mailslot the chute if prudence recommends.

We have done this on a Capri 30 as well. I wouldn't dismiss this out of hand.
PATSY

#22 chaos!341

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:54 PM

fore hatch or bag on the lifelines works for us...
just depends on what kind of fubar we are anticipating at the mark...

and i'm the old, lousy skipper, owner, helmsman that has to listen to a crock of sheet from my younger crew....and pay their bar bill at that...
so it goes....

tim

#23 Blackadder

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 02:54 AM

Interesting conversation. On J27's folks chute out of the companionway, usually from some sort of sliding basket a' la J24. It does keep people off of the bow and really works well short handed. Of course the chute is smaller, but it works like a charm. A few, wiser than I, showed this to me a few years back and I will never return to another method. You do need much longer sheets, so if you think that you will just try this one day, it may not work out for you.

Prefeeding is not a problem as the wind is blocked by the jib/genoa, so you just need to keep a little tension on the foot. Bow/mastman sets the pole, goes back to the rail. Pitman/trimmer prefeeds and sets the sheets. When its time to hoist, bow/mastman hoists at the mast with the aforementioned camcleat, pitman/trimmer handles the guy, trimmer moves to his spot. Bow/mastman then moves to cockpit, releasing outhaul on the way, to clean up the halyard and anything else on his way to distributing his weight properly. Lousy owner, skipper, helmsman messes with the mainsheet, backstay and spills his G&T while giving his critique of events.

The douse you can probably envision pretty well, but the nice thing is that the crew member stuffing the chute is seated in the companionway and can achieve a very rapid forearm after forearm recovery of the chute into a bag that is essentially siting in his lap, unless he is old and decrepit like the lousy owner. You can also mailslot the chute if prudence recommends.

We have done this on a Capri 30 as well. I wouldn't dismiss this out of hand.
PATSY

On iour J/27 we always use forward hatch, i know our boat cane with a companionway bag but we threw it away. Plus, the halyard tails to a cleat on the mast which puts everything close together. Forward hatch also makes it easier for mexican drop.

#24 Bump-n-Grind

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 02:09 PM

On iour J/27 we always use forward hatch, i know our boat cane with a companionway bag but we threw it away. Plus, the halyard tails to a cleat on the mast which puts everything close together. Forward hatch also makes it easier for mexican drop.

which is one of the best weapons you can have in your mark rounding arsenal.
being able to pull one of those out of your ass without fucking it up can move you up a couple notches in a 10 boat fleet over a season

#25 Speng

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 03:17 PM

Funny about the mexcian because it seems to be a Usanian thing... Mentioned it once when sailing on a J135 and they looked at me like I was talking Mandarin.


Does anyone use retriever lines on the kite?


what are "retriever lines".....is that like a heavy air set up when you have a guy and a sheet on each clew?

tim


Light weight string that runs up thru a tiny grommetted hole in the bottom of the sail bag up thru 2 or 3 grommetted holes in the kit. When the drop comes just blow the halyard and pull like crazy on the string and it sucks everything down into the bag and leaves the sail ready to hoist. Used on a lot of dinghies and beachcats. On big boats I think it's what's called a "string drop"

#26 chaos!341

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:53 PM

Funny about the mexcian because it seems to be a Usanian thing... Mentioned it once when sailing on a J135 and they looked at me like I was talking Mandarin.



Does anyone use retriever lines on the kite?


what are "retriever lines".....is that like a heavy air set up when you have a guy and a sheet on each clew?

tim


Light weight string that runs up thru a tiny grommetted hole in the bottom of the sail bag up thru 2 or 3 grommetted holes in the kit. When the drop comes just blow the halyard and pull like crazy on the string and it sucks everything down into the bag and leaves the sail ready to hoist. Used on a lot of dinghies and beachcats. On big boats I think it's what's called a "string drop"


gotcha...thanks...
i haven't seen that set up locally on j-30's or pearson flyers which we rate level with....
the mexican drop is usually the "drop d' jour" on our boat...

tim

#27 firewater88

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:27 AM

We launch and douse into the companionway. We too have a cleat at the mast that once the spin pole is up, the foredeck guy hoists and cleats it. We, typically, never pull the halyard back to the companionway, he coils it at base of mast and he will then control the halyard decent once pole is down. Person in pit will only need to drop pole and then pull chute in, with help from two on port side.  All lines are always clipped and ready to go for next launch.

We drilled holes in the cap nuts under the deck spinlocks and ran a thin string through on both sides of the hatch down below, we then clip in our launch bag to that and it slides back into the hatch for easy launch and douse. Been doing this for years, pretty much bassed on the 24 style from J school. 



#28 JBSF

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:41 PM

BnG, what's the advantage of using the hatch? Don't you have to send someone down below?

Why would ya? if ya do a leeward douse on starboard gybe, the kite comes in under the headsail and straight down the hatch. leave it all connect and yer good to go. coming into leeward mark on port: jib up, lose the pole, weather douse kite goes down the hole still good to go unless you disconnect anything. only time you'd really have to send someone down is if you disconnect something from the kite.
I raced a J30 for many years and once I got the bowman spun up we very rarely had pack a chute or send anyone down below.
once you've got the kite down, you might have your bowman arrange the corners of the sail and bring the halyard back to the mast to a shackle to keep it from flopping around.. put the hatch down on top of the corners to keep it all together.. if you're in rough seas this might not be such a good idea, but here on the Chesbay we didn't see that many conditions warranted doing it any other way.

 

^ THIS.  On the J29 I used to have we always flew it out of the hatch.  The bowman would sit or kneel with the foot of the spinny in his hand, and when it was released (halyard and guy) he would stuff it straight down the hatch  - piece of cake.  We just let the kite sit on the top of the v-berth (cushions removed) but another trick is to have a large plastic laundry basket sitting under the hatch for it to go into.  Once things had settled down, My bowman would then reach in the hatch and find the corners of the kite and dog the hatch down on the 3 corners with one handle only to keep the inside relatively dry while leaving everything still attached.  It was so easy it felt like cheating.  Never had to pack the chute during the race, ever.

 

During the next set, the bowman would sit or kneel by the hatch (once the pole was up) and feed out the clew for the pre-feed to set the guy.  Then once the hoist started, he was "helping" the kite out of the hatch.  No dramas at all.

 

I would say the big thing against doing the companionway is the distance it has to go from there to the pole during the hoist.  You can't pre-feed it much before the mark rounding. 



#29 BalticBandit

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:28 PM

Banding on a J-30???WTF!!

 

That said, most 30'ers go FWD hatch (Olson 30s, Synergy 1000s, Soverel 33s ) precisely because you have so much line tailing into the companionway.  Unlike a J24 you have a real toppy a real FG (and you need them) and you have two Jib and usually 2 kite halyards  Also because its a bigger boat, unless you have a bag,  down the companionway does not leave the kite in anything of a tidy shape.  and unlike a J24 that is totally clean down below, the larger boat isn't.   Which is also why you use a bag in the FWD hatch.  - just to keep the kite fairly bunched up.



#30 clamslapper

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:49 PM

Funny about the mexcian because it seems to be a Usanian thing... Mentioned it once when sailing on a J135 and they looked at me like I was talking Mandarin.
 

 


Does anyone use retriever lines on the kite?


what are "retriever lines".....is that like a heavy air set up when you have a guy and a sheet on each clew?

tim

 


Light weight string that runs up thru a tiny grommetted hole in the bottom of the sail bag up thru 2 or 3 grommetted holes in the kit. When the drop comes just blow the halyard and pull like crazy on the string and it sucks everything down into the bag and leaves the sail ready to hoist. Used on a lot of dinghies and beachcats. On big boats I think it's what's called a "string drop"

 


gotcha...thanks...
i haven't seen that set up locally on j-30's or pearson flyers which we rate level with....
the mexican drop is usually the "drop d' jour" on our boat...

tim

 

Not this fuck fucking bullshit shit again.

 

It was well established long ago that you have no idea what a Mexican drop is -- and somehow Italy was called into the fray most inappropriately too. 

 

And that's du jour, no "d'jour" dude.  

 

*sigh*



#31 bloodshot

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 04:50 PM

 

Funny about the mexcian because it seems to be a Usanian thing... Mentioned it once when sailing on a J135 and they looked at me like I was talking Mandarin.
 

 


Does anyone use retriever lines on the kite?


what are "retriever lines".....is that like a heavy air set up when you have a guy and a sheet on each clew?

tim

 


Light weight string that runs up thru a tiny grommetted hole in the bottom of the sail bag up thru 2 or 3 grommetted holes in the kit. When the drop comes just blow the halyard and pull like crazy on the string and it sucks everything down into the bag and leaves the sail ready to hoist. Used on a lot of dinghies and beachcats. On big boats I think it's what's called a "string drop"

 


gotcha...thanks...
i haven't seen that set up locally on j-30's or pearson flyers which we rate level with....
the mexican drop is usually the "drop d' jour" on our boat...

tim

 

Not this fuck fucking bullshit shit again.

 

It was well established long ago that you have no idea what a Mexican drop is -- and somehow Italy was called into the fray most inappropriately too. 

 

And that's du jour, no "d'jour" dude.  

 

*sigh*

 

 

colbert-popcorn.gif



#32 chaos!341

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:35 PM

 

Funny about the mexcian because it seems to be a Usanian thing... Mentioned it once when sailing on a J135 and they looked at me like I was talking Mandarin.

what are "retriever lines".....is that like a heavy air set up when you have a guy and a sheet on each clew?

tim
 
 
Not this fuck fucking bullshit shit again.
 
It was well established long ago that you have no idea what a Mexican drop is -- and somehow Italy was called into the fray most inappropriately too. 
 
And that's du jour, no "d'jour" dude.  
 
*sigh*
[/quote]
 
 
colbert-popcorn.gif
 
[/quote]

dripping clam...

yeah....again...your grammar sux....
reread your last post fuckstick...
and the local coonasses spell the word d'jour....just so you'll know...

you were just a puddle of jizz when a "mexican take-down" was known as an "itallian take-down"...
1983 ac cup was when the term was used...

*sigh* indeed...[/quote]



#33 clamslapper

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 08:37 PM

> dripping clam...

> yeah....again...your grammar sux....
> reread your last post fuckstick...
> and the local coonasses spell the word d'jour....just so you'll know...

> you were just a puddle of jizz when a "mexican take-down" was known as an "itallian take-down"...
> 1983 ac cup was when the term was used...

 

 

 

No, no, no, you heartless mean old ignorant redneck fuck.  Let's leave puddles of jizz out of it for the moment and focus on the slovenly manner in which you macho-ly throw around fancy terms:.  In the 1983 America's cup, an Italian takedown referred to a normal -->WEATHER<-- strip.  A Mexican takedown refers to a -->JIBE<-- strip.  They are two very different tactical moves. 

 

God damn you are just so fucking annoying and I think I speak for more than a few of the avid readers. 



#34 chaos!341

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 11:53 AM

> dripping clam...

> yeah....again...your grammar sux....
> reread your last post fuckstick...
> and the local coonasses spell the word d'jour....just so you'll know...

> you were just a puddle of jizz when a "mexican take-down" was known as an "itallian take-down"...
> 1983 ac cup was when the term was used...

 

 

 

No, no, no, you heartless mean old ignorant redneck fuck.  Let's leave puddles of jizz out of it for the moment and focus on the slovenly manner in which you macho-ly throw around fancy terms:.  In the 1983 America's cup, an Italian takedown referred to a normal -->WEATHER<-- strip.  A Mexican takedown refers to a -->JIBE<-- strip.  They are two very different tactical moves. 

 

God damn you are just so fucking annoying and I think I speak for more than a few of the avid readers. 

interesting...a post back (and several others) you denied the existance of the "italian drop"...

gee, who's the fool now...

 

God damn you are just so fucking annoying and I think I speak for more than a few of the avid readers...

quit beating a dead horse...

 

 

*big yawn*






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