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#1 bape

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 11:38 AM

Hi all. Long time reader, first time poster. 

In late May im going down to to St.Marine to visit Pogo Structures and test sail the new Pogo 30. If all goes well and the boat preforms as advertised, I need to sort out the options of what gear to get.

 

First off: Autopilot. 

We are looking at primarily doing doublehaned costal and light offshore races (100-400 nm) so a good autopilot is essential. We are now using the Raymarine sox-10 and it performs  ok within its limitations. 

Is the benefit of going to eg. NKE worth the added price (as I can see, about double the price)? What are the real benefits of a NKE system? The pilot should be able to handle downwind in big waves & wind.

 

2. Vinylester hull.

Is it worth going with Vinylester over a epoxy hull (about 3500€ price hop)?

 

3. Sails and sail loft

We have got a quote from Incidences on a complete sail wardrobe in either D4 Kevlar, hydranet or a mylar/tafetta DCX sandwich and the price looks good. My biggest worry is having a sail loft so far away from home port. Anybody got any experience with this loft?

I will also be shopping around the local lofts (North, Elvstrom, US and maby Doyle), to see what they can offer.

The main focuses on the sail choice is shape and durability. 

Any advices about sail choices are appreciated. 

 

4. Furling system.

Im looking into different solutions for this, and the std. option from pogo is the Facnor Flat Deck Furler. Im leaning a bit in the direction of a structural furler like the Facnor STG 4T wire furler, as we will not use the furler to reef the headsail anyway (in/out only). Will the STG 4T be a problem if the wind picks up? Is it strong enough for the boat?

Are there other options on a light structural furling system I might not be aware of?

 

I also like the flexibility of the Karver KSF Top Down Furler for genaker/code/stay/spinnaker. 

Will a spinnaker furler work as intended in heavy breeze?

 

Thats it for now, any insights are greatly appreciated.



#2 jackdaw

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 02:56 PM

OK, this is based on a one-week double-handed charter on a Pogo 12.50, so take it for whats it worth.

 

1) The NKE AP worked splendidly. With just two up we had it on a lot. Very smooth and very little over correct and hunt.

 

2) The boat we were on had an Incidences wardrobe, in Hydranet. The sails get used a lot (charter) and seem to be holding up well. Only funny business was the GV's luff slugs, fiddly plastic affairs that the owner had re-enforced with dyneema loops. And the batten/gaff for the fathead had a tensioning system that seems not fully thought out. At least it seemed that way. Remember that Incidences is the development loft for Structures, so they will have lots of time into their designs. I'm not sure I'd want sail-set #1 for a Pogo from ANY loft.

 

3) The Facnor flat furler on the genoa was very nice. It just flat out works. But I'm not a fan of the Facnor STG wire furlers at all; I've used one on a First Class 7.5 and it sucks when it is blowing. Pretty sure the FT30 guys will say the same. Also because the Pogo has no backstay, you don't get to play with headstay sag so the foil matters less.

 

We liked the Facnor endless line furler for the Gennaker, as long as you keep the line tight! 

 

Anyway, that's what I got.



#3 LeoV

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 04:49 PM

2, epoxy and Vinylester both has stronger properties then polyester.

Vinylester like polyester is more difficult to mix right, experience count.

So if the yard does a lot of vinylester, go vinylester if you like.

 

The only reason I can think why you would like vinylester is that it was rumoured to have better bonding properties to cores then epoxy.

Never personally seen real trustful data to proof this ( but thats why cigarette style race boats used it), and cores have been developed too in the years.

Specially in the bonding properties.

What is the yards opinion about the advantage of vinylester ?

 

And normally vinylester is cheaper then epoxy.

 

I did build small boats in poly and epoxy a lot, but only one in vinylester. But my info is at least 6 yrs old.

Maybe there is a new reason to choose vinylester.

 

Oh, and personally I would go epoxy with a postcure, maybe they can do that for 3500...



#4 mcsailor0303

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 04:54 PM

Those boats look SICK!

 

Good luck with your new boat!



#5 bape

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 07:23 PM

@mcsailor0303: Thank you! Im really looking forward to it myself.

 

@LeoV: The yard says it will be a stiffer hull when using vinylester and is more resistant to osmosis. I also looked trough the spec again and the std. build is poly not epoxy. Sorry for the confusion. (Sanwitch PVC foam, multiaxial glass fabrics and polyester resin is standard)

But in general terms you will rank epoxy as best, then vinylester and poly last? 

 

@jackdaw: Thank you for some insight.

Regarding sails on a new design, using the loft that is close with the builder seems to be a good choice. We'we bought a newly developed boat once before and then the sail maker missed in a big way. I don't want to do that again. This all points to using Incidences, I guess.

Regarding the STG 4T wire furler, if it sucks when blowing then that's a no go. Maby the flat deck furler with carbon foils will be the way to go. :)



#6 Roleur

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 11:23 PM

Bape,

If you consider almost all Mini's, Figaro's, Open 40's, and Open 60's are steered by either B&G or NKE and it seems B&G is more expensive, then NKE looks very appealing. We have full NKE on our J/120 and it is fantastic. It has steered almost 4000nm for us in the last year (transatlantic +) and most of that was downwind and most of that was at wind speeds about 15 knots. The autopilot has never failed to steer the boat. Then you have the True Wind Option, the wireless remote, and lot's of other performance features if you opt for the regatta computer.

I think buying NKE rather than trying to save a few bucks was one of the smartest decisions I've ever made.

#7 cms

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:33 AM

NKE and Incidences are the "staples" suggested by Structures and are both OK. However I understand your reasoning about local backup and would need to be sure NKE was well known in your area, otherwise go Raymarine and save some money. On sails too, if you have a good relationship with a local sailmaker who won't bullshit you, then I am sure he can do at least as good a job for you with knowledge of your program and conditions.

 

Charly will be your best friend till he gets your money, then you fall off his map, so be prepared to be tough. They build a great product and we see very few significant faults with the boats we sell secondhand.



#8 Presuming Ed

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:27 PM

164965_240076552802295_1873741233_n.jpg



#9 LeoV

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 03:01 PM

Damn, should have know it was Poly contra Vinylester.

 

If you want to own the boat long time, go vinylester.

If you want to sail it 3 yrs and sell it on, all is good :)

Vinylester is better then poly in the long run, due to tensile strength (so stiffer) and water absorption.

A vinylester boat stays light, poly soaks up water.

 

You will save a bit back later due to not needing epoxy barrier coat for your antifouling.

 

Have fun there, its a nice part of France.



#10 Mr. Bill

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 03:35 PM

There's a long history of Vinylester boat construction.

Here's an article by Terry Alsberg on the construction of the Express 27.

Hope it helps with your decission.

 

http://express27.org/articles/terrya



#11 bape

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 05:29 PM

@Mr. Bill : Thanks for the article. Interesting reading.

We will probably do the boat prep. (a good way to get to know your new boat, I think) and undercoating our self, so not having to lay down 4-6 layers of epoxy before the antifouling is certainly a benefit.

 

@cms : Thank you for the advise regarding Charly. Thats sales people for ya.

Im still not shure about the autopilot choice yet, but I want a step up from Raymarine tough. I need to do some more research on that subject. 

 

We will be flying in trough Brest so I may set of some time to talk to the people from Incidences-Brest too.



#12 Bulbhunter

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 06:07 PM

Sounds like a fun project! Keep us updated. I and another sailing buddy are keeping a close eye on the 30. If we end up using our tubby old E28 more in the near future with the kids I could see the Pogo 30 being at the top of our list to go check out if we decide to upgrade. I would probably make it a trip over and check out the used boats.

 

Regarding the resin discussion. I've read in many places that going with proper Epoxy offers a dramatically stiffer and stronger hull than the cheaper resin alternatives.

I think Jim Antrim may have written up a fairly detailed thing on this I sort of recall reading it many years ago on his Antrim Composites site. I recall a few other builders also explaining that one of the single biggest things a builder can do to increase strength is to simply build with Epoxy over the cheaper resin options.



#13 Rail Meat

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 07:58 PM

Autopilot - ditto on the positive comments about NKE.  I have been using NKE since 2002 and am quite pleased.  The system is fairly simple to install, to maintain and to service so any one with some basic electrical knowledge should be able to be self sufficient ift hey have some one to call with questions.  For me that is Euromarine in Newport.

 

Sails - Incidences has a huge amount of experience and are very well regarded.  It is hard to imagine that things would go poorly.  The issue will be if you need servicing, and who local to you can help you out.

 

Furlers - no experienced with Facnor.  I can tell you that the Karver furlers work well. I will caution you that getting a top down furling system has its own set of challenges.  It typically works best with flater reaching kites, not for down wind runners.



#14 choupie

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 12:25 PM

The Pogo 30 looks interesting indeed.

Just being curious... Are you going for the aluminium or carbon mast?



#15 Slim

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 01:18 PM

Autopilot - don't forget B&G, seems like a lot of the Vendee fleet was happy with their new stuff last time around.



#16 bape

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 07:07 AM

@chopie : if im bying im goinig for carbo rig. not so shure about the no back stay buisnesss, and if i deside tht my racing needs a code 0 i may demand runners.

 

@Slim we are not forgeting B&G, but i am no GP racer and the price is just too steep (if you don't have any super special price? ;).

 

@Rail Meat : thanks for the advise. I am guessing you got the NKE race computer in your system? an does it make a big difference?  does it make the interface with expedition simpler many? 



#17 jackdaw

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 03:32 PM

Bape,

It would be interesting to see one of the 'civilian' versions of a Pogo with a code 0, and what changes Structures would recommend to the rig. When we were on the 12.50 we did lots of jib reaching with breeze in the mid-low teens. The boat pushed the AP so far forward the gennaker was useless. As it was we still planed but there was probably more speed there to be had. So we set the AP and poured a drink, and marveled at a production boat planing upwind JAM.

#18 FastButNotFurious

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 07:53 AM

Hi all. Long time reader, first time poster. 

In late May im going down to to St.Marine to visit Pogo Structures and test sail the new Pogo 30. If all goes well and the boat preforms as advertised, I need to sort out the options of what gear to get.

 

First off: Autopilot. 

We are looking at primarily doing doublehaned costal and light offshore races (100-400 nm) so a good autopilot is essential. We are now using the Raymarine sox-10 and it performs  ok within its limitations. 

Is the benefit of going to eg. NKE worth the added price (as I can see, about double the price)? What are the real benefits of a NKE system? The pilot should be able to handle downwind in big waves & wind.

 

2. Vinylester hull.

Is it worth going with Vinylester over a epoxy hull (about 3500€ price hop)?

 

3. Sails and sail loft

We have got a quote from Incidences on a complete sail wardrobe in either D4 Kevlar, hydranet or a mylar/tafetta DCX sandwich and the price looks good. My biggest worry is having a sail loft so far away from home port. Anybody got any experience with this loft?

I will also be shopping around the local lofts (North, Elvstrom, US and maby Doyle), to see what they can offer.

The main focuses on the sail choice is shape and durability. 

Any advices about sail choices are appreciated. 

 

4. Furling system.

Im looking into different solutions for this, and the std. option from pogo is the Facnor Flat Deck Furler. Im leaning a bit in the direction of a structural furler like the Facnor STG 4T wire furler, as we will not use the furler to reef the headsail anyway (in/out only). Will the STG 4T be a problem if the wind picks up? Is it strong enough for the boat?

Are there other options on a light structural furling system I might not be aware of?

 

I also like the flexibility of the Karver KSF Top Down Furler for genaker/code/stay/spinnaker. 

Will a spinnaker furler work as intended in heavy breeze?

 

Thats it for now, any insights are greatly appreciated.

Hi Bape,

 

I will try to give you some advice on your questions, based on my 12-month and 1.5-month chartering experience on a Pogo12.50 and a 10.50 respectively, whatever this is worth.

 

Autopilot: NKE on both boats perform very well on all conditions. The boats help because they are extremely well balanced on all angles and they do not exert high loads on the autopilot. However, this does not undermine the performance of the NKE. I do not know how the Raymarine would react, but the NKE had no trouble putting in less than 5 sec the boat back to its route after a broach/knock down (happened twice). Is NKE worth x2 as much as the Raymarine? Difficult to say. If they were sufficiently good (like B&G), they would be used in the big singlehanded races. But then again it is hard to tell how much more NKE should cost.

 

Vinylester: The advantage lies on the molecular structure of Vinylester, which has circular bonding, as opposed to polyester which has a linear structure. This is why Vinylester is much stiffer (stress-strain curve is much steeper) and cannot be easily penetrated by water. Epoxy has also circular structure with even more interlocking, hence it is even stiffer and more watertight. This is why anti-osmosis protection consists of a layer of Epoxy on most boats now days. 

The yard masters equally the technique for both resins. For extended periods (>12months) in the water, higher resistance in shocks/rigging loads and protection against osmosis, my advice is to pay the premium. In this case it is related to the price/kg of the resin, not to some marketing trick or vague estimate of the advantage offered. It will also be a good point when time comes for selling the boat one day.

 

Sails:  our sails are from Incidences and are from Hydranet. If you are looking for durability, this is an excellent choice.

Shape: very good even after a year of intensive sailing (>150days) not always handled in the best way...

Durability: the sails  are very good, no tears, or signs of fatigue.

Problems: had some design issues, that I think most will be resolved by now as they get plenty of feedback

- top-batten auto-trimming system which is very adjustment sensitive (length) and although it was set by the yard it was torn during the first days of our transfer trip

- batten luff ends with plastic threading screwed on metal mast car pins. Not a good choice, nearly all of them broke, had to "invent" additional support system with dyneema ropes.

- our 10.50 does not have reinforcements/patches on the Main at spreaders' height neither at full sail nor at reef No1. Our 12.50 does have => Ask for that!

- Gennaker luff rope cut to perfection. A few cm shorter would have been better for tensioning and easy rolling.

- Spi sock rope runs only on one side, twisting the sock. Should be running on both sides symmetrically.

- all auxiliary products are of low quality (bags, covers, lazy bag) and even badly designed (lazy bag) on both boats. Zips destroyed, poor stitching, plenty of hassle, unjustified for such a top standard sail loft.

 

Furlers:

Genoa. Our Facnor Flat Deck work perfectly. I would not change them. Only draw back is the furling tape (instead of rope), which can be easily torn. Have a spare one handy.

Gennaker. The Facnor FX is not so good. Furling rope needs to be under tension, it gets very easily out of the drum, with strong breeze rope slips and you have to apply continuous tension on both sides/hands, generally not easy to master. I have seen but haven't tried the new Karver KF with the locking mechanism but it looks much better. I have no idea how the top down furlers KSF work, seen them only on youtube.

 

Keep us informed on your project and let us know if you need something else. I have seen the Pogo30 about a month ago in the yard, it is indeed a fantastic boat!

 

Greetings from Greece



#19 Bulbhunter

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 07:52 PM

Hi all. Long time reader, first time poster. 

In late May im going down to to St.Marine to visit Pogo Structures and test sail the new Pogo 30. If all goes well and the boat preforms as advertised, I need to sort out the options of what gear to get.

 

First off: Autopilot. 

We are looking at primarily doing doublehaned costal and light offshore races (100-400 nm) so a good autopilot is essential. We are now using the Raymarine sox-10 and it performs  ok within its limitations. 

Is the benefit of going to eg. NKE worth the added price (as I can see, about double the price)? What are the real benefits of a NKE system? The pilot should be able to handle downwind in big waves & wind.

 

2. Vinylester hull.

Is it worth going with Vinylester over a epoxy hull (about 3500€ price hop)?

 

3. Sails and sail loft

We have got a quote from Incidences on a complete sail wardrobe in either D4 Kevlar, hydranet or a mylar/tafetta DCX sandwich and the price looks good. My biggest worry is having a sail loft so far away from home port. Anybody got any experience with this loft?

I will also be shopping around the local lofts (North, Elvstrom, US and maby Doyle), to see what they can offer.

The main focuses on the sail choice is shape and durability. 

Any advices about sail choices are appreciated. 

 

4. Furling system.

Im looking into different solutions for this, and the std. option from pogo is the Facnor Flat Deck Furler. Im leaning a bit in the direction of a structural furler like the Facnor STG 4T wire furler, as we will not use the furler to reef the headsail anyway (in/out only). Will the STG 4T be a problem if the wind picks up? Is it strong enough for the boat?

Are there other options on a light structural furling system I might not be aware of?

 

I also like the flexibility of the Karver KSF Top Down Furler for genaker/code/stay/spinnaker. 

Will a spinnaker furler work as intended in heavy breeze?

 

Thats it for now, any insights are greatly appreciated.

Hi Bape,

 

I will try to give you some advice on your questions, based on my 12-month and 1.5-month chartering experience on a Pogo12.50 and a 10.50 respectively, whatever this is worth.

 

Autopilot: NKE on both boats perform very well on all conditions. The boats help because they are extremely well balanced on all angles and they do not exert high loads on the autopilot. However, this does not undermine the performance of the NKE. I do not know how the Raymarine would react, but the NKE had no trouble putting in less than 5 sec the boat back to its route after a broach/knock down (happened twice). Is NKE worth x2 as much as the Raymarine? Difficult to say. If they were sufficiently good (like B&G), they would be used in the big singlehanded races. But then again it is hard to tell how much more NKE should cost.

 

Vinylester: The advantage lies on the molecular structure of Vinylester, which has circular bonding, as opposed to polyester which has a linear structure. This is why Vinylester is much stiffer (stress-strain curve is much steeper) and cannot be easily penetrated by water. Epoxy has also circular structure with even more interlocking, hence it is even stiffer and more watertight. This is why anti-osmosis protection consists of a layer of Epoxy on most boats now days. 

The yard masters equally the technique for both resins. For extended periods (>12months) in the water, higher resistance in shocks/rigging loads and protection against osmosis, my advice is to pay the premium. In this case it is related to the price/kg of the resin, not to some marketing trick or vague estimate of the advantage offered. It will also be a good point when time comes for selling the boat one day.

 

Sails:  our sails are from Incidences and are from Hydranet. If you are looking for durability, this is an excellent choice.

Shape: very good even after a year of intensive sailing (>150days) not always handled in the best way...

Durability: the sails  are very good, no tears, or signs of fatigue.

Problems: had some design issues, that I think most will be resolved by now as they get plenty of feedback

- top-batten auto-trimming system which is very adjustment sensitive (length) and although it was set by the yard it was torn during the first days of our transfer trip

- batten luff ends with plastic threading screwed on metal mast car pins. Not a good choice, nearly all of them broke, had to "invent" additional support system with dyneema ropes.

- our 10.50 does not have reinforcements/patches on the Main at spreaders' height neither at full sail nor at reef No1. Our 12.50 does have => Ask for that!

- Gennaker luff rope cut to perfection. A few cm shorter would have been better for tensioning and easy rolling.

- Spi sock rope runs only on one side, twisting the sock. Should be running on both sides symmetrically.

- all auxiliary products are of low quality (bags, covers, lazy bag) and even badly designed (lazy bag) on both boats. Zips destroyed, poor stitching, plenty of hassle, unjustified for such a top standard sail loft.

 

Furlers:

Genoa. Our Facnor Flat Deck work perfectly. I would not change them. Only draw back is the furling tape (instead of rope), which can be easily torn. Have a spare one handy.

Gennaker. The Facnor FX is not so good. Furling rope needs to be under tension, it gets very easily out of the drum, with strong breeze rope slips and you have to apply continuous tension on both sides/hands, generally not easy to master. I have seen but haven't tried the new Karver KF with the locking mechanism but it looks much better. I have no idea how the top down furlers KSF work, seen them only on youtube.

 

Keep us informed on your project and let us know if you need something else. I have seen the Pogo30 about a month ago in the yard, it is indeed a fantastic boat!

 

Greetings from Greece

Wow great feedback!!! Structures needs to comp you guys ;-)



#20 Kincora

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 01:05 PM

Bape, look forward to your feedback after the visit.  I am going to France in early June to check out the same boat.  Also checking out a couple of Figaro II, Akarila Class 950, JPK 960 & 1011, an A31.  The Pogo is at the top of my list with carbon rig and swing keel.  Would open up a lot of options in NE when used for cruising, but racing she will be crushed with our silly PHRF system.

 

Go Vinyl for all the posted reasons above.  I have built with both and would take Vinyl always over Poly.  Prefer epoxy but they will not offer it, I tried but they said now.  Understand why it is tough for their fast production to re-prep the molds.  And they are starting to pump them out with 35 sold as of this week.  To have one for next summer you need to deposit in June of $10,000 euros.

 

As for NKE I am with Mike all the way.  Having installed two full NKE systems in Quest 30's, I love it. You need true wind if you plan on using it with a kite.  Many times making coffee by myself doing 13-14 kts.

 

Great to see Pogo moving their great 12.2 concept to the 30' range.



#21 Presuming Ed

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 01:50 PM

Well priced Sunfast 3200 in Hungary. (No connection) http://www.yachtworl...ry#.UYuiBqIbSSp

 

I see that JPK have announced a 1080. Looks like launch is planned next year. http://www.jpk.fr/?t...lier_jpk&id=670

 

11080.jpg



#22 jackdaw

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 02:56 PM

The Pogo is at the top of my list with carbon rig and swing keel.  Would open up a lot of options in NE when used for cruising, but racing she will be crushed with our silly PHRF system.

 

For sure. We are looking at a 12.50 to replace our first 36.7. We mostly two-up fast cruise, but also race ours with a full crew and maintaining that level of commitment is hard. The upside of the 367 is she was designed to be competitive (if not always fast) in most conditions. The Pogo will have Superman PHRF number due to her off-wind potential in a breeze,  but will get crushed when the breeze is down and sails more like a mortal boat.

 

If the 30 is anything like the 12.50 is is permanent grin time for the lucky new owners.



#23 Kincora

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 03:22 PM

Agree Jackdaw permanent grin is great and most of my time is single/double handed trekking.  But when I do race I like to be in the game and I don't think the Pogo 30 will offer that unless it is a nice downwind/reaching race.  Upwind at last years Ida Lewis Race there was a 35 miles section, not rough, just very nice sailing. I think this would toss the Pogo out of the running. We did it with out waterballast and won double handed class but I think the Quest 30 has a gift rating compared to what the Pogo 30 would have.  Happy to be proven wrong and all the more reason to be excited about my upcoming trip.

 

Nice that you are in a position to be looking at the 12.50.  A Class 40 comcept for cruising, nice.



#24 Christian

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 03:36 PM

Agree Jackdaw permanent grin is great and most of my time is single/double handed trekking.  But when I do race I like to be in the game and I don't think the Pogo 30 will offer that unless it is a nice downwind/reaching race.  Upwind at last years Ida Lewis Race there was a 35 miles section, not rough, just very nice sailing. I think this would toss the Pogo out of the running. We did it with out waterballast and won double handed class but I think the Quest 30 has a gift rating compared to what the Pogo 30 would have.  Happy to be proven wrong and all the more reason to be excited about my upcoming trip.

 

Nice that you are in a position to be looking at the 12.50.  A Class 40 comcept for cruising, nice.

 

I couldn't agree more.  The reason for buying a Pogo 30 if you live in a light air venue (like you do) is more about loving the boat and then hoping for that occasional race where the conditions are just right and you have a runaway race.  Not going to happen often though and unless you are lucky the rating for a boat like that is going to be harsh and tough to sail to in most races.  Agree that you have a bit of a soft rating with the Quest.  Would probably change if you won a ton of races and the other guys start to whine.

A Pogo for doublehanded racing is a sweet boat.  Have you at all considered a used Class 40?  Know it is obviously a bigger boat (and double the annual cost) but you could go race it level at least for a handful of races in the NE?



#25 Kincora

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 04:16 PM

No class 40 for me.   The Class 40 is 4-5 times the yearly budget of a 30' and the cost of getting in is more then double if purchasing an older used boat.  Now a new boat you are talking $600-750K on the line.  And the cost of Class 40 just keeps going up.  Don't get me wrong I think they are fantastic and I hope it just keeps growing, and would love to own one but the budget is just not there.  I raced on California Condor in the Pac Cup last year and really enjoyed the sailing.  Also we did Spinnaker Cup last May and again fun sailing. 

 

Pogo 30 will be fun to tryout but not sure if the cost and non-race potential will have me make the move.  Again only time will tell. I do think you would have a better chance winning in a Figaro II, which Murray sails very well locally, and for 1/2 the cost of a new Pogo 30.  But no cruising interior.



#26 Mylar

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:43 PM

For comparison - Electronics pak for 2014 Jeanneau 3600

B&G ELECTRONIC PACK B&G ($1400/set incl 1 T41 display)
- 2 T41 displays ($500/pc)
- 1 depth-speed sensor
- 1 masthead wind sensor
- PC interface
B&G AUTOPILOT WITH 2 DISPLAYS AND HYDRAULIC RAM ($1200 + displays & ram)
GPS B&G ZEUS T7 AT THE CHART TABLE WITH WIFI ROUTER ($1000)
AUTOPILOT WIRELESS REMOTE CONTROL ($270)
TWIN 20/20 DISPLAYS ON MAST MOUNT ($1200)
VHF RS12 WITH AIS TRANSPONDER ($700)

$6-8K for starter electronics pkg... might have to stick to my tacktics

#27 jetfuel

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 09:13 PM

No class 40 for me.   The Class 40 is 4-5 times the yearly budget of a 30' and the cost of getting in is more then double if purchasing an older used boat.  Now a new boat you are talking $600-750K on the line.  And the cost of Class 40 just keeps going up.  Don't get me wrong I think they are fantastic and I hope it just keeps growing, and would love to own one but the budget is just not there.  I raced on California Condor in the Pac Cup last year and really enjoyed the sailing.  Also we did Spinnaker Cup last May and again fun sailing. 

 

Pogo 30 will be fun to tryout but not sure if the cost and non-race potential will have me make the move.  Again only time will tell. I do think you would have a better chance winning in a Figaro II, which Murray sails very well locally, and for 1/2 the cost of a new Pogo 30.  But no cruising interior.

Figaro 11 probably has an interior just as cosy as the Pogo. I really like both boats and would love to move up from my Figaro 1



#28 Christian

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:37 AM

No class 40 for me.   The Class 40 is 4-5 times the yearly budget of a 30' and the cost of getting in is more then double if purchasing an older used boat.  Now a new boat you are talking $600-750K on the line.  And the cost of Class 40 just keeps going up.  Don't get me wrong I think they are fantastic and I hope it just keeps growing, and would love to own one but the budget is just not there.  I raced on California Condor in the Pac Cup last year and really enjoyed the sailing.  Also we did Spinnaker Cup last May and again fun sailing. 

 

Pogo 30 will be fun to tryout but not sure if the cost and non-race potential will have me make the move.  Again only time will tell. I do think you would have a better chance winning in a Figaro II, which Murray sails very well locally, and for 1/2 the cost of a new Pogo 30.  But no cruising interior.

 

No worries - I can fully appreciate the financial realities of boat choices.  It was just a thought. 

 

Given your current boat - why would you actually change your boat?  The Quest and the Pogo certainly different but what you have now is a great boat for single/doublehanding and your rating is not punishing.  I would think long and hard before making a change.



#29 Kincora

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:21 AM

Christian,

 

It was a great thought for a Class 40 and I appreciate the input. If I could even get close I would go for it.  Never say never.

 

Sorry I did not make it clear I sold my Quest 30 in December.  A little bit of buyers remorse since I rebuilt her and took 1500 lbs out and made her stiffer.  She still needed some major work and is a 1994 Balsa boat.  Reason for selling was I could not refuse the price which was silly high and let me bank a nice chunk.

 

She was my third Quest 30.  Barrett built 7 Quest 30 and 6 Quest 33.  The 33 is slower and heavier.  A couple of the 30's have scoops which I don't think help at all, they are very weight sensitive.  The boats have a huge and I mean huge weight difference.  I had three I owned on the same scale and there was a 2500 lb difference before my weight reduction.  The one I just sold is the lightest and now 900+ lighter then the next lighest.  Then the rest are above that weight.  Fun to sail and really have a gift rating.  But for me it is time to move on, I had to for the money.

 

So that puts me were I am now, looking for next years boat.  I could buy a used Figaro II have it delivered to RI and still have money in the bank from my Quest sale.  But no rating gift there unless I spend time on the PHRF commettee and they would kick me off quick speaking my mind.  We need a fair rule for all boats, but that is not a new story.



#30 bape

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:50 AM

Kincora,

I'll give you some feedback as soon as posible.

I have also been looking at the Akilara 950 and the JPK's. Also been dreaming about a Class 40, but as you mention the running cost is just to big. The 950 is better in that area but not much of a class yet, and it will rate even worse than the pogo.

Here in Norway we just got a new rating system for the entry level racing based on ORC (so no more experience rating, like PHRF). This might be a good thing for the Pogo style boats as they were punished HARD in the old rule. 

 

If I was to buy just to get a good rating the JPK's are a good choice, so are the Sunfast 3200 (probably the 3600 too). There is certainly money to be saved going for a Sunfast or Figaro. 



#31 Kincora

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:25 PM

Thanks Bape,

 

Sounds like we are in a similar position. 

 

I do like the Akilara 950 but agree it would be hammered on rating.  They are well built and have a nice interior for a 2700kg boat with inboard and break free similar to my recent Quest. 

 

The JPK 1010 looks great but pushes my budget.  WilI still want to give one a go and see if it is worth the extra money. 

 

A modified ORC would be a step up in our area.  I talked with the PHRF commette about the weight reduction to my Quest and they did not change the rating.  I don't think that is fair since it is a lot faster as you would expect.  Should have gone down at least 8 sec a mile.

 

The Sunfast 3200 I don't know much about except reading a few reviews on line.  I am so use to having a boat that breaks free single handed in 12 kts of wind with flat wake and then just keeps going faster.  And then upwind you add water as the breeze build to stay in the game and have fun.  Would be hard to go slower on a bigger boat and I feel that might be the cast with the 3200 but I don't know first hand.  So it is still worth a sail to find out for myself.

 

Happy to exchange emails if you want to stay in touch that way and then post finding here?



#32 jetfuel

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:59 PM

Thanks Bape,

 

Sounds like we are in a similar position. 

 

I do like the Akilara 950 but agree it would be hammered on rating.  They are well built and have a nice interior for a 2700kg boat with inboard and break free similar to my recent Quest. 

 

The JPK 1010 looks great but pushes my budget.  WilI still want to give one a go and see if it is worth the extra money. 

 

A modified ORC would be a step up in our area.  I talked with the PHRF commette about the weight reduction to my Quest and they did not change the rating.  I don't think that is fair since it is a lot faster as you would expect.  Should have gone down at least 8 sec a mile.

 

The Sunfast 3200 I don't know much about except reading a few reviews on line.  I am so use to having a boat that breaks free single handed in 12 kts of wind with flat wake and then just keeps going faster.  And then upwind you add water as the breeze build to stay in the game and have fun.  Would be hard to go slower on a bigger boat and I feel that might be the cast with the 3200 but I don't know first hand.  So it is still worth a sail to find out for myself.

 

Happy to exchange emails if you want to stay in touch that way and then post finding here?

The Sunfast is never going to break away unless you are in 20+ knots. Race against one and they are not much faster than the newer Beneteau 30



#33 jetfuel

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:00 PM

The Sunfast will never break away unless you are in 20 + knots of wind. Not that much faster than the new Beneteau 30 but it is faster



#34 Mylar

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 07:29 PM

Jeanneau 3200 a big fat beast. They are being dumped for the new 3600.
West Coast 3200 for sale for 2 years $200K???
You might be able to sell a new J/boat for approx what you got into her but, anything else this side of the pond you are going to take a hit no mater what sails or electronics on board, that's part of the deal when buying used.

#35 bruno

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 01:18 AM

seems like they are gouging abit on the resin upgrade but i think it would be foolish not to, better longevity, resale, and stiffer for racing, as noted, versus barrier capting, blister potential, softer, and shorter competitive life, no brainer. see if they post cure for same price then you are winning all the way.

#36 cms

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 09:10 AM

JPK 1010 is a great boat under IRC and a blast to sail. Not as far left as the Pogo concept though. Jean-Pierre Kelbert is a great guy to deal with, dead straight and looks after his clients and their boats.

 

If you could wait, have a look at the one on Yachtworld for delivery in the West Indies after the Transquadra.



#37 Kincora

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 01:29 PM

Thanks CMS,

 

I really like the whole concept of the JPK 1010 double handed version.  Do you know the double handed version IRC?  Hard to find used one?  I know I can check out the charter fleet in La Rochelle while there but do not know if they have the double handed version.

 

I plan on calling JP prior to my visit and see if we can meet. 

 

Not in a hurry to have a boat this year.  My plan is to buy in the fall/winter, unless a great oppertunity comes along.



#38 bape

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 05:42 PM

Mylar, $200K for a 3200?!  Well that boat is not going anywhere..

And yeah, it's a big fat one, but it rates good and is a good platform for double-/single-handling if you don't mind coming in last but win on time every time. Seems to be the same way with the new 3600.

It's not the boat for me, anyway.

 

I saw the JPK1010 on Yatchworld and that may be a great deal for the right person, but maby not me as I need to take it back across the pond. But, then again - A season racing in the West Indies is not a bad thing either!

 

Kincora, I'll PM you my email.



#39 Kincora

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 01:05 PM

Hi Bape,

 

When to you go to France?  I am set for my trip mid June.  5 boats on the list to check out so far.



#40 bape

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 05:28 AM

Hi Koncora,

 

Im going next wednesday actually. Really looking forward to it now! 

My time in France does not allow me much time to check out a lot of boats, but im going to test sail the Pogo 30 (of course), Pogo 10.50 and the Akilaria 950.

If I got time Im going to meet up with someone from Incidences Brest to discuss sails. 



#41 Kincora

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:58 PM

Thanks Bape,

 

I am going second week in June and have a full schedule lined up.  Will send you an email with more details.



#42 icthus

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:45 PM

Bape or Kincora, any thoughts after visiting Pogo Structures?

#43 Southern Cross

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:09 PM

http://www.jefa.com/...rives/drive.htm

Might be too late for this ...

#44 Philen

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 09:46 AM

Bape

 

any news from your visit to Pogo?

 

I'd also be interested in any new aspects about the genoa furler. Looking for one on a Seascape 27 (no backstay there either). Facnor  STG 3 looks good on paper but may not work all that well in practice because of forestay sag. The Flatdeck may be an alternative, but, since I don't need to reef, maybe a bit of overkill. Any good alternatives?



#45 knucklehead

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:51 AM

The Facnor in/out furlers are fine. They have been labelled as rubbish by some, but I think they have just used them incorrectly. Only furl the headsail going downwind is the main thing.
I've used one for over 6 years now. We've experimented a bit with battens, the latest headsail has thin diagonal rod battens sewn into the leech, with a curve to the pocket. Headstay sag doesn't bother it.

#46 icthus

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:51 AM

Bump

#47 bape

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 03:15 PM

Hi again.

Sorry for the lack of updates from my visit to Structures, but i've been busy with work and lastly our bianual race week (witch we won btw ;))

But here comes my impressions of Structures and the Pogo 30:

First of all I am really happy with the treatment and hospitality I got from the good folks at Structures. They treated us well and also was my personal taxi some of the time.

We started with a tour of their facility and the production line. There were 2-3 Pogo 30, a Pogo 50, a Pogo 10,50, a Pogo 12.50 and the new class 40 (a sexy best!) in various stages of completeness if I recall correctly, and the production seems to be well organized and of great quality ( as you should expect form a semi-speicality boat yard). The attention to details is great (like using transparent gelcoat to uncover possible production errors, molded and flush trough hull fittings ++).

After visiting the boat yard we were ready for the sea trial.

First impressions is that this is a BIG 30-footer, well thought out deck layout with some clever solutions. 

The layout with halyard- and sheet-winches (and also the main sheet) on the coach roof is something to get used too. It free's up lots of space in the cockpit so it's great for cruising and probably also for shorthanded sailing, but will probably be a bit crowded with a full crew.

I may also want the main sheet in the cockpit and not on the coach roof (option in the pricelist). Mostly for singlehanded downwind/reaching in breeze as the boat may round up (happened a couple of times to me in the puffs, but with better helming you just get more speed ) and with the sheet on the roof it's a long way to go to blow the sheet.

 

At first the helm seems a bit heavy, but when I got used to it the boat was really responsive and small corrections goes a long way. It's feels more like a dingy than a big boat in my opinion. As mentioned above I lost the rudder and rounded up a couple of times (we went out in about 25 knots of breeze, with 1 reef and solent), so the boat needs an active helmsman. When you feel the puff coming just go down a bit and you plane away instead of rounding up.

After some fun reaching around the bay (we hit 11 knots without  hassle on the 2 sail reach), we switched to the staysail on a removable babysay, and went on the beat.

The boat was perfectly balanced and we had about 20 deg. heel with a tack angle of about 35. Better feeling on the beat than I expected (it was flat water so it's probably not so enjoyable with some bigger chop). You probably would get 4-5 deg more with a backstay or runners.

 

Since the wind was increasing the owner did not want to risk popping the spinnaker, so we did not get to try the boats best feature :( That's something for the next time.

 

One thing i noticed was that you need to watch the where you put the tillers in a gybe. If the leeward tiller is in the "up" position it may snag the main sheet in a gybe.  This is REALY not good when the breeze is on..

 

All in all a great visit and a great boat! My guess is a new "boat of the year" for Structures, and if nothing weird and unexpected happens, it's my new boat too.

The fun part now it planning the boat setup.

 

^^^Philen:

I have not anything new to add regarding the furler, and I too is wondering about this. I really wish to try the STG3 in a breeze before I make up my mind. Because it seems like a perfect solution on paper. Is the Seascape set up without a furler?

An expensive alternative Structures suggested was a flat deck with carbo foils.



#48 Kincora

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:45 PM

Bape,

 

Nice post.  I will put some thoughts/pictures up tomorrow on sailing the Pogo 30 in 19-26 kts of wind with waves.  We did set the kite.  Off on the water now but when in my office tomorrow.



#49 icthus

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 01:59 AM

Congrats on the win Bape!
Thanks for the updates, it sounds like a great boat.

#50 Kincora

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 01:01 PM

I also had a great visit at Pogo with a long factory tour.  The build quality is very high with great attention to detail.

 

Sailing was fun and the boat is very easy to sail.  I did not like the winches on the house for single handed, but they are happy to put them where you like.  The sails were cruising sails from a local loft.

 

We set the main in the harbor then were off reaching with a flat wake.  Once clear of a few rocks, it is NW France after all. Ah the red wind! Then we set the kite in 22-25 kts true.  Sailing at 11-15 kts boat speed was effortless with easy steering.  They are moving the stock in the rudders 5mm on the next boat to add a little more feel. 

 

It was easy to stay on a wave. I felt we needed more sail area downwind in true wind 22-25 kts.  That shows how much righting moment they put into their boats, and the huge form stability from the hull.  They take a lot of care in lowering the VCG and it shows when you sail the boats.  We also sailed the 10.50 later in the week and the same huge stability with that boat.

 

Jibes were easy and the path from tiller to tiller was nice and clear.  Traveler at the transom is great.  I never felt even close to loosing control.  I pushed it a couple of times and she was easy to get on rails and let the doggie go for a walk.  20 kts will be easy in the boat with the right conditions.

 

Upwind we used both solent and then staysail. Staysail and full main was a lot better then solent with reef.  It is a wide stubby boat so you really need to keep her moving through the waves. 

 

They offer a shorthanded version with nav station on center and most of the interior not installed.  One was on the floor ready to go out the door.

 

Pogo will do well with this boat it fills a slot in the market at a great price with very high build quality.  That shows, if you order now you will get the boat in 12-14 months. 

 

Good for Pogo showing that light fast easy to sail shorthanded boats with nice interiors built to a high quality do sell.



#51 rantifarian

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 10:56 PM

Sounds like a great boat Kincora. How did you find the 10.50?



#52 islandplanet

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 07:53 AM

Incidences is a very well regarded loft. If they have experience with the Pogo and it sounds like they do, it will likely go quite well. If you go Hydranet, I'd stick with the radial. 

 

Any competent local sailmaker can tend to your service needs. 



#53 Philen

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 10:07 AM

Bape: thanks for the update, sounds like a very fun boat!

 

reg furler: The Saescape does not come with a furler for the solent (the staysail is on a structural fiber type furler). The problem - I have been told - with the STG (or any structural furler) in a boat like the Pogo 30 and the Seascape 27 , which don't have a back stay, is that you have consistently too much tension on the forestay to easily furl, since the bearings carry the full load of a highly tensioned stay. This apparently makes it difficult to furl in lots of breeze. However, see post#45 by knucklehead.

Then, because the luff gets twisted membrane sails don't like structural furlers, especially if you leave the sail furled up for a long time. But one of the reasons for me to get a furler is to be able to leave the solent furled and covered up on the mooring, so I can get going quickly once I'm on the boat.

So obviously the flat deck is sounding more and more appealing, despite the price and more weight aloft (didn't know there were carbo foils available for that one).



#54 Kincora

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 01:49 PM

Incidences is a very well regarded loft. If they have experience with the Pogo and it sounds like they do, it will likely go quite well. If you go Hydranet, I'd stick with the radial. 

 

Any competent local sailmaker can tend to your service needs. 

I did not say they were not a well regarded loft.  I said they were cruising sail which they were.  And they were a work in progress.  I am sure they can make quality race sails for the Pogo 30 but the sails we used were for demo sails not racing.

 

 

Sounds like a great boat Kincora. How did you find the 10.50?

The 30 is a great boat and so is the 10.50.  The 10.50 has proven itself in a wide range of conditions.  Interior is huge and the boat sails very well.  Again very easy to sail while going fast at the same time.  If I was to buy one of the boats I sailed in France the 10.50 would be right up there with the JPK 10.10. 



#55 moody frog

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:32 PM

Thanks CMS,

 

I really like the whole concept of the JPK 1010 double handed version.  Do you know the double handed version IRC?  Hard to find used one?  I know I can check out the charter fleet in La Rochelle while there but do not know if they have the double handed version.

 

I plan on calling JP prior to my visit and see if we can meet. 

 

Not in a hurry to have a boat this year.  My plan is to buy in the fall/winter, unless a great oppertunity comes along.

 

 

Double-handed / IRC version :

Newsflash: Father and son win 2013 Rolex Fastnet Race

For the first time in its 88 year history, the Rolex Fastnet Race has been won by a doublehanded crew.

The father and son team of Pascal and Alexis Loison from Cherbourg, France on the JPK 10.10, Night and Day, arrived at 07:19:57 BST this morning making their elapsed time 3 days 18 hours 29 minutes and 57 seconds for the 611 mile race.

Winning the overall IRC prize in the Rolex Fastnet Race means that Pascal Alexis Loisin will receive the Fastnet Challenge Cup as well as a Rolex Chronograph.

More Race information will follow in our Evening Race Update

 

The non double-handed version also shines with Foggy Dew lying second overall at the time of posting this (20mn behind in corrected time - 50mn ahead of 3rd place)

 

Night and Day is also 1st in IRC3 and 1st in double-handed division

Foggy Dew is 1st IRC4 ahead of 3 other JPK 10.10



#56 choupie

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 01:37 PM

What are the differences between the double-handed version and the regular racing version?



#57 Presuming Ed

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 05:48 PM

There are two keel options: with and without a bulb, and single or twin rudder options.

#58 SailHigh

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 09:27 PM

Bape,

 

Nice post.  I will put some thoughts/pictures up tomorrow on sailing the Pogo 30 in 19-26 kts of wind with waves.  We did set the kite.  Off on the water now but when in my office tomorrow.

never saw pics?



#59 choupie

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 11:43 PM

I'm curious whether you've considered the Columbia 32?



#60 Bulbhunter

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:06 AM

I'm curious whether you've considered the Columbia 32?

I've seen the Columbia and like the stuff they build but the Pogo has aspects and touches that the Columbia simply doesn't come close to of course the price of the pogo once on US shores also reflects that too. #1 attraction for me regarding the Pogo is the swing keel it opens up access to some thin water spots that a deep keel performance hull simply cant get into. The sealed bulkhead space for the rudders being another nice touch I don't recall the Columbia having that.

 

As I said lots of additional little touches that Pogo does that the Columbia simply lacks.



#61 micha571

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 07:13 AM

video:

 



#62 Bulbhunter

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 06:28 PM

Every time I see the Pogo boats I think back years and years ago my response and level of interest to the Santa Cruz boats is exactly the same. Simple - good looking! Great sailing boats, interiors that work well are easy to maintain and all the critical structure and parts easily accessible. All that and what appears to be well built boats just like the old Santa Cruz boats.

 

Damn I sooooooooooo Want a Pogo 30 seems like the perfect mix of performance, interior, cockpit space and set up with short handed sailing in mind. The swing keel is super attractive also allowing me to get into and out of marinas and even motoring to some of our Delta anchoring places with no drama yet still allowing for deep water great performance.

 

Damn it!!! I want one of these!!!!!



#63 Bulbhunter

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 07:06 PM

Might be looking at making another Croatia cruise next summer with the wife. Last time we double handed a brandnew never chartered B 323 in 06. Best trip ever!!!!!!!!!!!!! We had a great time. We are starting to talk about maybe doing that trip again just the two of us though I would freaking LOVE to charter a POGO 30 this time!! If that's not possible maybe something else besides another B boat beach ball. It was fantastic being one of the smallest boats given we could tuck into some small spots and find some great places to anchor etc. Heck even chartering an Elan 310 would be way better than another Beach ball.

 

So having been there once already thinking I may really push hard to locate one of these boats for us to charter and enjoy this time around.

 

So if any of you have done this and know who's charters boats other than the beach ball B boats please drop me a note.



#64 kidkodine

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 07:20 PM

That fucking video just brought tears to my eyes...I guess it has to do with the sheer beautiful simplicity of the boat and sailing in general. Plus, that bushy eyed French girl was so so hot... 



#65 JBSF

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 07:44 PM

Hi Bape.  Is your Pogo the one possibly going to Dubai?



#66 jackdaw

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 08:58 PM

So having been there once already thinking I may really push hard to locate one of these boats for us to charter and enjoy this time around.

 

So if any of you have done this and know who's charters boats other than the beach ball B boats please drop me a note.

 

Screw Croatia and head to Greece. Contact these guys http://www.fastsailing.gr/ and pick the 12.5 or the 10.5. Point the fucker slightly downwind and hold on to your hat. The grin wears off in about 11 months. Just in time to plan another trip. We wend last February and even in the winter had the time of our lives. The tourist factor was way low, and the local treated you like rockstars after you arrived in something like THAT.



#67 Bulbhunter

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 09:08 PM

We've done Greece and after cruising Croatia never going back to Greece.. As in  NEVER! Yes Croatia is that much better. Not even a Pogo Charter in Greece will get me back there.



#68 Par Avion

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 03:04 AM

We've done Greece and after cruising Croatia never going back to Greece.. As in  NEVER! Yes Croatia is that much better. Not even a Pogo Charter in Greece will get me back there.

What part of Croatia do you wanna sail? North? Koranati parks and such or south, Split/Hvar and the like. I worked for a company as a charter skipper this summer in both spots. Neither have Pogos, but one did have a race speced Salona 35. 



#69 Bulbhunter

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 04:21 PM

We've done Greece and after cruising Croatia never going back to Greece.. As in  NEVER! Yes Croatia is that much better. Not even a Pogo Charter in Greece will get me back there.

What part of Croatia do you wanna sail? North? Koranati parks and such or south, Split/Hvar and the like. I worked for a company as a charter skipper this summer in both spots. Neither have Pogos, but one did have a race speced Salona 35. 

Primarily have done the south end up to Havar. The Salona's are nice pretty much on the same level as the Elan Performance boats and the Dufours. We ran into two performance charters but both were 45ft when the wife and I double hand we like to stick to the shorter 30footer size given we enjoy having less boat to deal with. The Croatia trip idea was just recently floated we also have another trip idea we might consider and take family much closer to home etc. Well see we have about 6 months to decide. If we ever decided to upgrade our boat here at home we would most likely round up a list of boats in Croatia to go check out cruise one for a few days then ship it home. We have SHIT for boats here in the states. Maybe the big 20 something sport boat growth will start to result in sporty light cruisers like the Pogo idea here in the US - but I highly doubt it.

 

No doubt more wind in Greece than Croatia for the typical season conditions if I wanted windy conditions we would just stay and sail our own boat in SF. LOL



#70 NewLeaf

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 01:03 AM

Autopilot - don't forget B&G, seems like a lot of the Vendee fleet was happy with their new stuff last time around.

Have you talked to any of the skippers or used a B&G pilot?  The Vendee boats all have specially developed software for them which is not available unless you pay over a 6 figures premium.

 

As a matter of fact there was a boat with both systems in it, the B&G never got used the skipper called them the beauty and the beast....

 

NKE is the way to go.

 

If you want a full B&G Motion, plus both GFD and ACP programmers setup I will trade you mine for a regular NKE setup that will outperform the B&G any time of the day.



#71 MidPack

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 02:59 PM

The Pogo 30 does look very interesting. Forgive me if I missed it on this thread, but has anyone seen any pricing (base at least) for the Pogo 30? I haven't turned up anything using search here or Google/Bing.



#72 jackdaw

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 03:10 PM

The Pogo 30 does look very interesting. Forgive me if I missed it on this thread, but has anyone seen any pricing (base at least) for the Pogo 30? I haven't turned up anything using search here or Google/Bing.

 

 

You should have started at their WEB SITE.

 

http://www.pogostruc...list-pogo30.pdf



#73 MidPack

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 03:17 PM

The Pogo 30 does look very interesting. Forgive me if I missed it on this thread, but has anyone seen any pricing (base at least) for the Pogo 30? I haven't turned up anything using search here or Google/Bing.

 

 

You should have started at their WEB SITE.

 

http://www.pogostruc...list-pogo30.pdf

Whoops. I have been to their site, but somehow missed the price sheet. Thanks... :ph34r:



#74 NewLeaf

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 05:26 PM

man I want one!!!!! I think I am selling my house and buying one to take me to the south seas!



#75 LCD4

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 09:09 PM

Am I right that converted to US dollars the Pogo is about 135,000?  That makes it far less than the J88, right.  It's a heck of a lot more boat, though you'd have to get it here.  



#76 Bulbhunter

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 09:41 PM

Am I right that converted to US dollars the Pogo is about 135,000?  That makes it far less than the J88, right.  It's a heck of a lot more boat, though you'd have to get it here.  

At one time a while back I ran rough numbers for shipping the Pogo back to the West coast. Pushing hard for low prep costs probably looking at around $12K and doing your own set up on this end. BTW any boat with "J" infront of a number is WAY over priced and a poor comparison on pricing.

 

Hands down Pogo over a J something anyday!



#77 MidPack

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:35 PM


Am I right that converted to US dollars the Pogo is about 135,000?  That makes it far less than the J88, right.  It's a heck of a lot more boat, though you'd have to get it here.  

Not sure what you've included in the $135K for a Pogo, but the J/88 base price is $125K. The Pogo base price is $115K at current exchange rates but that's without a carbon mast, bowsprit and several small items that are all standard on the J/88. A direct comparison of base price wouldn't be comparably equipped.

Not favoring one over the other. I'd offer up an apples to apples comparison but the Pogo price list says "contact us" for the carbon mast so who knows. I'd guess that would add $10-15K alone.

The numbers suggest the Pogo will be quicker than the J/88 though...

#78 Dreamcatcher7444

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 08:05 PM

Hi Bape,

 

We just received our Pogo 30.

The NKE option is definitely the best low power consumption autopilot / electronics to choose.

Pogo boats are basically very stiff boats, so the extra vinylester option wasn't our choice.

We have Quantum Sails as supplier. The French loft together with the Netherlands made a good job using the Class 40 GDF - Suez as a basis.

Watch the small movie of our 500Nm boat delivery from France to the Netherlands.(http://www.youtube.c...h?v=DwOJvoMktA0)

 

kind Regards,

 

Gwyn



#79 NewLeaf

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 12:23 AM

Wouldn't the vinylester add to osmosis protection as well?

I am thinking on getting online for the bigger sister as my racing "motor home" and vinylester was one of the options I was looking into it.



#80 jackdaw

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 01:16 PM

Wouldn't the vinylester add to osmosis protection as well?
I am thinking on getting online for the bigger sister as my racing "motor home" and vinylester was one of the options I was looking into it.


I found Dream's comment re vinylester interesting as well. Beyond cost, I understood there was no down-side to its selection. The only good reason for not selecting it (beyond cost) was for a boat that was to be campaigned for a few years and then sold. The Pogo owners I know all selected vinyl and are all happy. Am I missing something?

#81 Royal Flush

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 06:31 PM

What is the price for the carbon rig?



#82 Pogo30

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 09:00 PM

the yard will charge you 7400 Euro plus VAT



#83 Bulbhunter

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 06:14 PM

Wouldn't the vinylester add to osmosis protection as well?
I am thinking on getting online for the bigger sister as my racing "motor home" and vinylester was one of the options I was looking into it.


I found Dream's comment re vinylester interesting as well. Beyond cost, I understood there was no down-side to its selection. The only good reason for not selecting it (beyond cost) was for a boat that was to be campaigned for a few years and then sold. The Pogo owners I know all selected vinyl and are all happy. Am I missing something?

A composite engineer by trade told me that the #1 thing any boat builder can do to improve the stiffness and quality of their boats is to use higher quality epoxy in the build process - the bonding mechanism in the epoxy is dramatically better than vinylester products however a builder cannot just switch from one to the other given the amount of resin needed and the build process ie cook book will change per the type of resin being used.

 

Most people buying plastic boats have no idea that there is a big difference between the levels of resin used in the build process. Blistering can be caused by a number of things but modern build methods and resin products make blisters a pretty low concern.



#84 anssi

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 08:00 AM

One Pogo 30 coming to Finland. I was test sailing the 30 with the new owner at the yard last summer, great boat. Drop me a line if you are from Scandinavia, are considering a Pogo 30 and wish to hook up with the to-be owner.

 

Cheers,

 

Anssi



#85 rfarich

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 06:37 PM

Hi, I'm a C32 owner, I like the look of the Pogo 30 alot...a couple of thoughts from this side...the C32 is a carbon boat, with an aluminum rig. 4000lbs or so.  [I opted for the Hall mast, we'll worth it, incredible stiffness]. The stern is not quite as flat as the Pogo 30, more Kern-like. She goes upwind very well which was a surprise. Downwind was no surprise..only surprise was staying on your feet when the kite pops.

 

With the aluminum rig, the boat is less $ than the pogo. We have a fixed bowsprit, internal retractable is stock. And lets not forget about the retractable drive. easily an extra .5bsp. Last year with only a couple of months in the C32 our goal was 20 in bsp, this year will be 25 with squaretop and kite upgrades.

 

The Pogo looks a little more family friendly for sure, the C32 a small bluewater boat, limited interior, that is superfast on all points. Pick you passion:) best wishes. r



#86 TBone

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 08:03 PM

Hi, I'm a C32 owner, I like the look of the Pogo 30 alot...a couple of thoughts from this side...the C32 is a carbon boat, with an aluminum rig. 4000lbs or so.  [I opted for the Hall mast, we'll worth it, incredible stiffness]. The stern is not quite as flat as the Pogo 30, more Kern-like. She goes upwind very well which was a surprise. Downwind was no surprise..only surprise was staying on your feet when the kite pops.
 
With the aluminum rig, the boat is less $ than the pogo. We have a fixed bowsprit, internal retractable is stock. And lets not forget about the retractable drive. easily an extra .5bsp. Last year with only a couple of months in the C32 our goal was 20 in bsp, this year will be 25 with squaretop and kite upgrades.
 
The Pogo looks a little more family friendly for sure, the C32 a small bluewater boat, limited interior, that is superfast on all points. Pick you passion:) best wishes. r



Apples and oranges...

#87 choupie

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 12:50 AM

Apples and oranges...

 

Really? The two boats seem relatively close. Do you mean the C32 is more of a racer whereas the pogo30 is more of a fast cruiser?



#88 NewLeaf

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 01:42 AM

I am sorry what is the C32?



#89 jackdaw

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 03:18 AM


Apples and oranges...

 
Really? The two boats seem relatively close. Do you mean the C32 is more of a racer whereas the pogo30 is more of a fast cruiser?


You think? Have you even LOOKED at both boats??

A couple could spend a month on the Pogo jetting around the Med. Good luck getting your wife going to Avalon for the weekend on the C32. Let me know what she thinks about the shitter. And 90% of the time, the Pogo is as fast, and easier to sail.

#90 oioi

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 09:05 AM

Hi, I'm a C32 owner, I like the look of the Pogo 30 alot...a couple of thoughts from this side...the C32 is a carbon boat, with an aluminum rig. 4000lbs or so.  [I opted for the Hall mast, we'll worth it, incredible stiffness]. The stern is not quite as flat as the Pogo 30, more Kern-like. She goes upwind very well which was a surprise. Downwind was no surprise..only surprise was staying on your feet when the kite pops.

 

With the aluminum rig, the boat is less $ than the pogo. We have a fixed bowsprit, internal retractable is stock. And lets not forget about the retractable drive. easily an extra .5bsp. Last year with only a couple of months in the C32 our goal was 20 in bsp, this year will be 25 with squaretop and kite upgrades.

 

The Pogo looks a little more family friendly for sure, the C32 a small bluewater boat, limited interior, that is superfast on all points. Pick you passion:) best wishes. r

 

just out of curiosity - why put an aluminium rig on a carbon boat?  the c32 is a full on race boat and I would have thought the sensible choice would be a carbon rig?

 

both boats look good, but I think they are intended for different purposes.



#91 JL92S

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 11:53 AM

I think the pogo 30 that tool part in the ARC broke it's rig, anyone heard why or how?

#92 FastButNotFurious

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 12:54 PM

I think the pogo 30 that tool part in the ARC broke it's rig, anyone heard why or how?

The Pogo 30 participating in the Arc 2013 called "Avel Biz" finished successfully (with its rig)

See here from the Arc website

here are the results.


 



#93 Sebyseb

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 01:13 PM

There will be many participating in Spi Ouest and Transquadra this year, so we'll see shortly if they hold their own.

#94 JL92S

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 02:32 PM


I think the pogo 30 that tool part in the ARC broke it's rig, anyone heard why or how?

The Pogo 30 participating in the Arc 2013 called "Avel Biz" finished successfully (with its rig)
See here from the Arc website
here are the results.

 
Sorry my bad I was thinking of the pogo 8.50

#95 anssi

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 06:29 PM




A couple could spend a month on the Pogo jetting around the Med. Good luck getting your wife going to Avalon for the weekend on the C32. Let me know what she thinks about the shitter. And 90% of the time, the Pogo is as fast, and easier to sail.

 

I have to agree on the Pogo, the couple, a month and the Med. This is based just on one day test sailing it in France. I know nothing of the C32 besides what I've seen on the net.

 

The yard is really great, they had two Pogo's setup for us (one with the lifting keel and one without) so we had a full day of sailing. After that Structures gave us a full tour of their facilities. I can't really think of a better way to spend a Saturday in June. 



#96 Pogo30

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 07:43 AM

Bad new for all fast sailer

Next possible delivery date for a new Pogo is June 2015 !!



#97 Presuming Ed

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:19 PM

I see that JPK have announced a 1080. Looks like launch is planned next year. http://www.jpk.fr/?t...lier_jpk&id=670

 

Launched. 

 

DSC01000.jpg

 

 

http://www.jpk.fr/?mode=actualites

 

1st sail - (google translate)

 

 
This is the first off the boat and the least we can say is that we will not be disappointed!
 
Starting at close reach between 9 and 10.5 knots south to Bastresse then sending the code 5 on pulpit for now hovering between 12 and 16 knots with very high stability.  A 8 aboard each waiting his turn to take the helm and be  happy. In the end, Eric Mordred sees grain to 30 knots past the slam record with 17.92 knots "in slippers!"  
 
Less than 3 hours after our departure from Lorient we are already in Trinidad with the smile on the ears! Saturday 22 is perfect wind between 12 and 15 knots for the first race in contact with our future opponents including the new Sun Fast 3600 and A35 over the pillars of the IRC 2 as Musix, Lannael or primetime. Clearly, we see immediately there will be the match between these 3 new boats that occur naturally with very small differences in the lead. A round where the first Saturday 3600 (helmed by Hugues Destrumeau and Luke Gelusseau tactics) sends us luff spinnaker just before the last leeward mark the arrival and suddenly made ​​itself harakiri! Instead of 1 and 2, 3 and 4 will! On round 2, we begin to settle and it will be the first victory of the JPK 10.80 .... Sunday 23 the wind is sustained between 16 and 20 knots. Genoese medium are replaced by heavy and start to measure efforts on hardware. On the first race of the day, we go fast enough right with some IRC 1 we take. J 122 and 40 are incredibly similar in speed, it's good that! 1st third of the nearly Unfortunately, the pulley genoa halyard explodes under load and we are genoa on deck time tinkering a snatch block . Thus crosses well behind damage, it was the right side! Course continued to return to the Sun and Fast 35. It ends 1 minute real behind what is seen the worst case scenario! Channel 2. Chop is strong and should find its place among the big IRC 1. Lower part of the line, we're a bit stuck for returning right. Shipped the package left we found overlayline without really could come to readjust. Our two formidable competitors are before and they are riding too. The bearing Cyril Leglaoec supported talented Christian Pontieux is a framework dared bottom left and bottom ends in a vein in stronger wind. We do not see him again especially at 2nd near our halyard exploded in the hold (for now halyards are not surgainées and it was not included in winch) is terminated when the same real 3rd n ' is not so frowned errors investment and halyard problem! In summary, it is clear that the boat goes fast and even very fast because without any guidance or adjustment validated we are already fighting front. Added to this a GV conveyor (Jimmy Pahun kindly lent us an old GV M34 2011 pending our final GV Ullman.) and we leave this first confrontation with a real sense of satisfaction. Sunday 14 h, landed a part of the crew back on the express Kernével. We are 4 in the boat with Hervé Perroud my friend with whom I have to do next Transquadra and it is said that still has the chance to make the next TSQ on this boat ....


#98 bape

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 05:28 PM

@Anssi Congratulations on your Pogo! Im also a scandinavian (Norway to be exact). Are you planning to sail the boat home from Benodet or are you going to put it on a trailer?

We just put put down a deposit for our own Pogo 30, so now the long waiting game begins!

 

@Dreamcatcher7444 Nice little video! It seems like you have a Code 0/1 on there. Is that correct? If so, do you get enough tension in the luff without any backstay/runners? 



#99 TheFlash

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 09:56 PM

Bad new for all fast sailer

Next possible delivery date for a new Pogo is June 2015 !!

 

 

Plenty of time to prep it for the 2016 Pacific Cup.

 

Very interesting...



#100 BobJ

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 04:21 AM

Flash, I'd give NorCal PHRF the spec's and get the rating first.  They clobber new boats like this.

 

Exhibit A:  The J/88.







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