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Some Olson 30 Offshore questions

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#1 Southern Cross

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:31 PM

We were down in the yard talking about how much more crap there was in the water these days. Not garbage so much but big stuff. Sometimes after a storm you'll see unusual things in the water, trees, parts of buildings. But we've had a very dry season. Someone I was talking to had recently hit a floating, semi-submerged piece of pier piling. No hole. But enough damage to chew up the bottom paint and gelcoat for several feet.

Although I have never heard of an O30 sinking and several have competed in the SHTP (Idefix sailing to Australia without a hitch), as it is the Olson does not have any water tight bulkheads or below the waterline flotation. I know they are heavily built but has anyone made any modifications? I take my kids out so I'm always thinking about worse case scenario and what would I do if ....

Also, before I get a new one, does the bilge pump that comes factory installed really work? Doesn't seem like it would get enough suction the way it is attached to a pipe that runs into the bilge?

Thanks in advance.

#2 casc27

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 12:20 AM

First, the bilge pumps work fine, assuming the pump itself is in good condition and has not been sitting there rotting since 1980. The pipe running to the bilge has never presented any trouble and is fairly common on the Santa Cruz built boats of that era (Olsons, Moores, SC's). If you do something like Pac Cup they will require you to re-plumb the discharge to go directly overboard and not into the cockpit drain pipe (if the Olsons are built that way).

 

I would not describe the O-30 as heavily built at all, quite the contrary. Well engineered and constructed and strong, but not heavily built. (A Westsail 32 would certainly qualify as heavily built.) And the possibility of cracking the hull or poking a hole in the boat from hitting a nasty bit of floating debris is definitely real. On the plus side, if you consider the shape the hull presents to the object as the boat moves through the water the contact should be more of a glancing blow than a direct torpedo hit. But it's still a real concern. I've never seen or heard of anyone constructing collision bulkheads or water-tight compartments in these boats. In the SC-27 I have heard people opine that the half-bulkhead that supports the aft end of the cockpit will keep the boat from sinking if the rudder rips out of the boat. But I'm not sure how realistic this is and I hope to never test it. And I can't recall if the Olson is built the same way. The only similar sized boat I've ever seen make a modification to prevent sinking was a Merit 25 about 12 years back that stuffed big blocks of Styrofoam down below and secured it in place. This was done after calculating the required volume and it really filled the boat up, especially the forepeak. 

 

As far as crap floating around out there my best guess is that at least a meaningful percentage of the increase is likely tsunami debris from Japan. I know Taz! hit a piling or something big in the SH Transpac last year and sustained some damage, including a bent rudder post and keel dings of a decent size. I would not be surprised if the volume has increased in our near-ocean play area in the past year.

 

Keep your eyes open, make sure someone on shore knows where you're heading and when to expect you, keep your radio and safety gear in good kit and enjoy sailing. You are probably more likely to be injured driving to the marina than you are from hitting floating debris while sailing.



#3 Southern Cross

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 01:02 AM

Thanks for that. Good info. The bilge pump was broken in a few places. I'll replace it then.

I know the SC 27 and someone who owns one. Great boat. There is an aft bulkhead that can be sealed in the Olson. I'd have to work out whether there is enough volume to add enough buoyancy.

There is a forward v birth that I could fill with foam. Overkill?

I've been involved in two sailing related accidents. One fatal. Rocks you to your core. Or maybe I'm just getting old. I learned how quickly these things happen and how your world can turn instantly upside down sometimes, literally. I used to just jump on any boat and go. Now...? And with all the recent racing related deaths, you hesitate.

#4 BalticBandit

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 12:10 PM

unless the foam is removable, you will be reducing resale value.  If you are really paranoid, there are autoinflate lift bags that you can put below that trigger like an inflatable life vest does.



#5 casc27

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 09:50 PM

I don't thinkg the aft, half-height bulkhead has enough volume to create meaningful bouyancey if the boat gets seriously flooded, but it will prevent a hole from the rudder post from filling the rest of the boat (at least that's the idea).

 

The foam in the Merit was not permanent, but it was strapped in place with some webbing. I did not see how they had rigged the webbing.

 

I'm right with you on the old part (dammit) and I have been in regattas where there were fatalities. Watching the CG helo hover for recovery, even when the conditions are to sever to see the surface level stuff, gets your attention in a big way.



#6 Foolish

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 03:53 PM

I think it would be very easy to seal the bow area below the V-berths.  It's already 99% sealed anyway, so a little bit of plugging would close it permanently.  This would provide flotation in the event of a hole above the seal, and more importantly this is the area that is most likely to get holed in a collision, so any water would stay inside the sealed area.  

 

And closing the stern bulkhead would also be a very simple task.  A piece of plywood above the existing bulkhead and some fiberglass work would close it nicely.  Then just put a rubber seal on the stern hatch.



#7 Southern Cross

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 04:29 PM

I think it would be very easy to seal the bow area below the V-berths.  It's already 99% sealed anyway, so a little bit of plugging would close it permanently.  This would provide flotation in the event of a hole above the seal, and more importantly this is the area that is most likely to get holed in a collision, so any water would stay inside the sealed area.  
 
And closing the stern bulkhead would also be a very simple task.  A piece of plywood above the existing bulkhead and some fiberglass work would close it nicely.  Then just put a rubber seal on the stern hatch.


Foolish. I thought so too. Have you ever had any concerns about holing your boat? I know you've done the TransPac?

#8 TheFlash

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 04:35 PM

I've gotten in the habit of always carrying a handheld DSC VHF in my PFD, and a PLB when venturing out of line-of-sight.  It's probably likely someone falls off vs. hit something that causes a sinking.

 

I just think of those guys on the J80 that lost the keel, and I pack the VHF.



#9 Foolish

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 04:46 PM

I once was coasting up to the dock in high winds and my motor quit.  I was going way too fast, so rather than hit another boat I aimed at the dock deliberately.  I hit a wooden 4x4 square on with the bow of the boat.  The 4x4 broke, but I was not able to even find a scratch on the gelcoat of the boat.  (It was rather amusing walking up to the harbor master to tell him that I broke his dock.)

 

I have come to understand that boats are incredibly strong, and the likelihood of a hole is incredibly small.  But of course we are all worried about this issue, especially with all of the Japanese tsunami junk floating around the North Pacific.  In my book (page 10-19)I discuss the product "Stay Afloat" (www.stayafloatmarine.com) as a suitable plugging material.  I also discuss using a Beware of Dog sign with Goop for larger holes.  I have often thought that a piece of thick rubber, like a tire tube, along with Goop would be a good patch. 

 

I think that plugging the bow, as described in my earlier post, is such a simple thing that I'm surprised it was not done when the boat was built.  But I have not done it to Foolish Muse yet :-)



#10 Southern Cross

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 06:01 PM

Well, I think I'm going to do it. I can swim for miles and miles but my daughter is like a little sparrow so I want to do all I can to prepare for the worst case scenario. I know it sounds paranoid but reading about the Farlon Island race? makes you rethink things.

Thinking I will put in water tight hatches and removable foam so that I can still get to these areas if necessary to work on the boat.

Are you required to carry a life raft in the SHTP?

#11 Mark K

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 06:37 PM

 I'm going to opine the odds are hitting something hard enough to do damage risking quick sinking requires some rough water, and the collision could be at any almost height of the nose and the bunk shelf is too low.

 

 A crash bulkhead should be top to bottom, or it's not worth the effort. 



#12 Foolish

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:57 PM

Are you required to carry a life raft in the SHTP?

Yes, it is required. And you must be able to deploy it in 15 seconds.

 

A crash bulkhead should be top to bottom, or it's not worth the effort

This is not a crash bulkhead so much as a part of the boat that will remain filled with air if there is a puncture above it or will fill with water alone if the crash is below it.  It is not a perfect solution, but is certainly better than no solution.  Adding the stern bulkhead would complete the picture I think.

 

The trouble with adding the complete bow bulkhead at the position of the existing bulkhead is that it negates possible usage of the entire V berth.  This is a big sacrifice on such a small boat.  If Southern Cross wants to sail with his children, that V berth is necessary. I know from experience.



#13 Southern Cross

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:06 PM

Thanks. Yes I think it wouldn't hurt. I'll take the measurements and work out the buoyancy

#14 Mark K

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 09:12 PM

Are you required to carry a life raft in the SHTP?

Yes, it is required. And you must be able to deploy it in 15 seconds.

 

>A crash bulkhead should be top to bottom, or it's not worth the effort

This is not a crash bulkhead so much as a part of the boat that will remain filled with air if there is a puncture above it or will fill with water alone if the crash is below it.  It is not a perfect solution, but is certainly better than no solution.  Adding the stern bulkhead would complete the picture I think.

 

The trouble with adding the complete bow bulkhead at the position of the existing bulkhead is that it negates possible usage of the entire V berth.  This is a big sacrifice on such a small boat.  If Southern Cross wants to sail with his children, that V berth is necessary. I know from experience.

 

 

 You aren't going to get enough flotation from the area under the forward bunk and the lazarette to float that keel, not even close. 



#15 One eye Jack

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:38 AM

Thanks for that. Good info. The bilge pump was broken in a few places. I'll replace it then.
I know the SC 27 and someone who owns one. Great boat. There is an aft bulkhead that can be sealed in the Olson. I'd have to work out whether there is enough volume to add enough buoyancy.
There is a forward v birth that I could fill with foam. Overkill?
I've been involved in two sailing related accidents. One fatal. Rocks you to your core. Or maybe I'm just getting old. I learned how quickly these things happen and how your world can turn instantly upside down sometimes, literally. I used to just jump on any boat and go. Now...? And with all the recent racing related deaths, you hesitate.

dont put to much weight in the bow, or you will truly regret it going down wind in a blow. I remember a few years ago backin the 80s somebody had come up with a formula for keeping the boat afloat. I do remember it wasn't much . Whether it was empty water bottles, cushions that float, ice chest, etc. if you want, maybe get some foam pieces like that they use under the docks and put under the pipe berths, but not in the bow. Maybe bill lee at wizzard yachts in Santa Cruz could help or direct you to a good answer.

#16 One eye Jack

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:45 AM



Are you required to carry a life raft in the SHTP?

Yes, it is required. And you must be able to deploy it in 15 seconds.
 
>

>
>A crash bulkhead should be top to bottom, or it's not worth the effort>

>
This is not a crash bulkhead so much as a part of the boat that will remain filled with air if there is a puncture above it or will fill with water alone if the crash is below it.  It is not a perfect solution, but is certainly better than no solution.  Adding the stern bulkhead would complete the picture I think.
 
The trouble with adding the complete bow bulkhead at the position of the existing bulkhead is that it negates possible usage of the entire V berth.  This is a big sacrifice on such a small boat.  If Southern Cross wants to sail with his children, that V berth is necessary. I know from experience.
 
 
 You aren't going to get enough flotation from the area under the forward bunk and the lazarette to float that keel, not even close. 
back in the 80s somebody came up with a formula for having the boat totally full of water and how much flotation was needed. As you I thought it would be alot, but. They figured in what floats down below anyway, with any kind of flotation it was some thing like 20 cu ft of flotation total. Don't forget your ice chest, cushions, empty bottles unused life jackets, etc are part of that formula. Also the foam or balsa core is flotation. The keel is about 1700 lbs, and the empty boat with out the keel is about 1700 lbs.

#17 One eye Jack

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:52 AM

Well, I think I'm going to do it. I can swim for miles and miles but my daughter is like a little sparrow so I want to do all I can to prepare for the worst case scenario. I know it sounds paranoid but reading about the Farlon Island race? makes you rethink things.
Thinking I will put in water tight hatches and removable foam so that I can still get to these areas if necessary to work on the boat.
Are you required to carry a life raft in the SHTP?

yes you have to have a raft along with i think all cat2 equipment.go to Singlehanded Saling Society and get the equipment requirments. They have some things that most races don't require. I know you used to have a hatch cover that you could look out side with the hatch closed.

#18 One eye Jack

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:06 AM

Ok ULDB boats that were made in Santa Cruz are close to being indestructible. No names but an Express 27 was sailing about 4-5 knots and hit an underwater rock, bounced back far enough , that it was able to start sailing again and hit the rock again. How hard? A piece of that rock about the size of maybe 2" cube, was inbeded in the lead keel. Damage? Never took on any water, Boat repair took the keel off, rebeded it, took the rock out, filled keel , re glassed the keel . And that was it. These boats aren't like that 10 thousand lbs 30 footer that most are used to. The ULDB are more like a dingy and act that way. Alot have thousands of ocean miles on them without any incidents.

#19 casc27

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 03:20 AM

The required volume is an intriguing question. A quick google search provided a density for seawater of 1,027 kg per cubic meter. A rough conversion comes out to about 64 lbs per cubic foot. Disregarding the parts that may already provide buoyancy and just using the designed displacement of 3,600 lbs it looks like you would need roughly 56 cubic feet of positive flotation. That's my cocktail napkin (damn, it is about cocktail time, too) calculation for the evening.

 

But frankly, if your concern is surviving a holed boat and sinking while day sailing in the near shore ocean you might just consider a lightweight life raft. Not the kind of thing designed to survive storms etc. But something to provide a floating platform to cling to while you pull the pin on the plb/epirb and ping the CG on your gps equipped dsc handheld vfh. And, as Foolish pointed out, you need to keep it where you can get it to the rail pronto. 



#20 Southern Cross

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 07:15 AM

All great advice. Where to start.

Buoyancy. Should have thought of the ol' Archimedes Principal to work out whether or not there is enough volume in the fore and aft compartments to float the boat. And there isn't. Can I rely on all of the interior flotation, cushions, life jackets, the Yumi Anime Love Doll to stay inside the boat and not float away?

I think sealing off the v-birth section will minimize water getting into the boat from a hole made beneath the water line. No such luck above that. And, no, I do not want the kids sleeping anywhere near me. They snore, talk and they kick me in their sleep all night. I need to keep the V-birth.

There is a smaller section at the forward most part (see photo) that could be sealed off fully to the deck without cutting into the v-birth space. This could be the crash part of the bulkhead. Thoughts?

I have read similar statements about the Santa Cruz ULDB's being bullet proof. It seems the real weakness on a lot of spade rudders is the post. So, sealing off the transom could help stave off a flood if the rudder were hit.

And I forgot about the Olson's burying their noses downwind and putting extra weight up there will definitely contribute to that.

A lot to consider. Too much work and too little sailing. I've been futzing around with the new trailer for a month. Well, one day a week futzing.

A side note. I've never raced this particular boat yet. But I'm not too keen on buoy racing anymore. The expense. Finding the crew. So, I'm gearing the boat up to stretch its legs on longer races and racing single-handed or double-handed with my boy. Offshore stuff.

Attached Files



#21 BalticBandit

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 03:13 PM

In which case you really don't want to do all that weight up front.  Seriously get a life raft.. OR get one of those diving Lift bags and attach a life-raft inflation canister to it.  So when you hit something and water pours in , it autoinflates and fills up the interior volume, 56 cubic feet is not that much  (the one that is 2' diameter by 10' long is almost enough, http://www.carterbag.com/salvage.html add in some cushions and you are good to go).

 

Look the real issue in hitting something hard enough to hole the boat is if you fall off a wave onto the object, and that object has a sharp corner.  otherwise the bow pressure wave being pushed by the hull will cause the hull to deflect away from the object long before you hit it.  Try this next time.  tape up a small water cooler so that it won't sink.  Toss it over board and motor at it at full speed and see if you can make it go "thunk" against the hull.  You will have a very very difficult time in even getting it to make contact because of the pressure wave.  In fact you will have a PITA time in retrieving it if you forget to tie a poly rope loop to the handle so that you can grab it with your boat hook.

 

I fully understand the concern about your daughter.  Absolutely.  but a good 4 person canister life raft will not only be useful for any offshore racing, but will also be a much better investment in your daughter's safety.    The other thing to look at is a also having a "hull breech mat" on board.   What this is, is simply an old beater sail that has been cut into the shape of a square that can run from gun'l to gun'l on your hull's widest point with grommets to adjust it down to the narrowest point.  have four lines on each corner with double ended snap shackles (they don't have to be fancy since they carry very little load in useage).  If you get holed, you unroll the thing in front of the bow, pull it aft to where the hole is, snap one side to the toe rail and pull the otherside taught.  this pulls the plastic cloth up against the hull and the pressure of the water seals it against the hole.  You then adjust the snaps on the other side to keep the whole thing moderately taut against the hull.

 

Sure water will continue to come in, but at a rate that you can easily pump against.   This is an ancient technique and works quite well.  There is a video online somewhere of a UK sailing magazine that bought an old beater sailboat and intentionally punched a hole in it while moored over lifting slings to try out various hole blocking techniques.  and the "old sail" worked the best, though a pre-prepped solution would be better.

 

Note also that given how fiberglass boats are constructed, the odds of actually having a full hole punched into the hull is very very very very low.  most likely what would happen if say you fell 10' off a wave onto the corner of a submerged container is what happend to my J-24's hull when it fell from  a crane onto the warf:  the outer skin was crushed by where it hit a bolt on the warf so that it would not be watertight,  the balsa core was partially crushed, and the inner skin delaminated from the core.  But in delaminating the inner skin retained integrity.  And this was a 15' fall off a crane with ZERO water bouyancy to protect the hull.  And nowhere was the hull breeched.

 

So I think you are going into overkill mode.   The boats that do suffer these sort of holings are moving at 20+ knots and even then those holings arent all the way through.  The full "through the hull" holes come from hitting rocks or corral heads at speed.



#22 Foolish

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 03:32 PM

Lots of good ideas here.  I think that the pointy end is so strong that sealing it with a crash bulkhead is not necessary.  Those are mainly used on larger boats that are doing 20 knots.

 

Sealing the V berth bottom would add about 1 pound of weight and be very simple to do, so it is the easiest way to get some piece of mind.  Nothing is perfect but this adds something.

 

The old sail- patch idea is very good, cheap and easy to understand.

 

Because the rudder is right behind the keel, it is difficult to think of how something could hit and break the rudder post to cause a large breach.



#23 BalticBandit

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 03:35 PM

Lots of good ideas here.  I think that the pointy end is so strong that sealing it with a crash bulkhead is not necessary.  Those are mainly used on larger boats that are doing 20 knots.

 

Sealing the V berth bottom would add about 1 pound of weight and be very simple to do, so it is the easiest way to get some piece of mind.  Nothing is perfect but this adds something.

 

The old sail- patch idea is very good, cheap and easy to understand.

 

Because the rudder is right behind the keel, it is difficult to think of how something could hit and break the rudder post to cause a large breach.

Happened to a J-120 but IIRC that was because a Cephalopod breached under the hull...



#24 Mr_Price

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 03:42 PM

Paging Ultraman, Ultraman to the white courtesy phone please.

(Whilst not a "hull / bow / rudder impact" story, Ultraman has some first hand experience of immobile submersed objects and his O30)

#25 Southern Cross

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 04:37 PM

Overkill. Yes. I know. I know. I know. The accidents I was involved in fucked me up a little. I don't even swim as much as I used to. Well, also it's Great White pupping season and the big momas are about and they get territorial ...

On the first one, my crew, a girl, was killed by a drunk on a powerboat. I was 12. On the second, I had just put my family ashore one hour prior to being struck by a 48' power boat doing 20 knts (below deck on autopilot). I thanked God they weren't on the boat. What would I have done? This all brought back bad memories of the first accident I had repressed.

I want to continue to show my children the whole world of sailing, the life I love so much. But I admit, I'm now fearful. I never had an ounce of fear before. Not that I was reckless. Blah blah blah

It's just time to get back in the saddle and stop looking for things to fix on the boat.

All this advice is very helpful and I appreciate having access to such knowledge.

#26 Mark K

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 08:32 PM

Lots of good ideas here.  I think that the pointy end is so strong that sealing it with a crash bulkhead is not necessary.  Those are mainly used on larger boats that are doing 20 knots.

 

Sealing the V berth bottom would add about 1 pound of weight and be very simple to do, so it is the easiest way to get some piece of mind.  Nothing is perfect but this adds something.

 

 I don't like it because the lack of air circulation will rot the wood out, and if it's insufficient to float the boat it doesn't add anything  at all. 

 

 Might consider extending the front edge to the bottom and up to the top to make a crash bulkhead. But I don't think it's worth the effort. Nobody has ever had enough damage to sink an Olson there, as far as anyone knows. It's a strong boat and I would prefer access to hammer or screw something, from the inside, quick over what would likely be a small hole. 

 

  There is just no substitute for a life-raft. A completely swamped boat just barely afloat isn't worth much.  



#27 Anemkne Tickler

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 10:01 PM

I own an Antrim 27, hull 14, and will be on the starting line for the next singlehanded transpac. The boat will displace ~3200 lbs for the race. I have added a bulkhead ahead of the forepeak that has a large removeable inspection plate. I keep the plate off while sailing inshore. The added bulkhead also makes the boat stiffer, and is perhaps better in chop?? The bulkhead added ~8 lbs. In addition, I keep 4 Opti airbags under forepeak and 2 under the aft quarter berths. I'm not sure if this will keep me afloat. Perhaps I should strap an airbag to the ceiling all the way aft on each side which is dead space. Can I fill the airbags with helium? Any thoughts on my setup?

#28 One eye Jack

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 10:29 PM

Helium is a very thin gas and under most types of air holding material, it will not work for long. It leaks out through the pores of the material. Mylar is about the best to hold helium, but will still deflate. Also you probably won't gain very much in weight saving. If you want something to stay inflated for a long time use nitrogen. It is one of the better gasses for that. You could carry a small bottle of it with the airbags deflated until needed. Most bottles are over 2000 lbs, and you only need about 15 -20 lbs. so a small bottle will go a long way.

#29 casc27

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 12:09 AM

Lots of good ideas here.  I think that the pointy end is so strong that sealing it with a crash bulkhead is not necessary.  Those are mainly used on larger boats that are doing 20 knots.

 

Sealing the V berth bottom would add about 1 pound of weight and be very simple to do, so it is the easiest way to get some piece of mind.  Nothing is perfect but this adds something.

 

The old sail- patch idea is very good, cheap and easy to understand.

 

Because the rudder is right behind the keel, it is difficult to think of how something could hit and break the rudder post to cause a large breach.

 

Taz! (Express 27) hit an object in the 2012 SHTP and when I spoke to the skipper about it he indicated that he heard several loud contacts with the object as the boat sailed past it. When the boat was pulled from the water in HI there was damage to the keel and the rudder post was bent a fair amount. Apparently the rudder felt stiff after the contact but was still functioning and no water coming into the boat so Taz! continued on. But the keel is not always a protective device for the rudder. Shit happens.

 

The idea of sealing off the v-berth structure seems pointless to me if it does not create (along with other modifications) sufficient flotation to keep the boat at the surface. If, for example, you need 60 cubic feet to do the job and the modifications only provide 50, you are still going to sink.

 

My recollection (I really wish I had pictures) of the Merit 25 that had installed Styrofoam for this purpose is that the fore peak was completely full, under the v-berth and above to the top. And there area under the cockpit was full as well. There was very little space left down below for a crew of two planing on spending the next couple of weeks on board. Frankly, I think the life raft likely provides a better solution to the sinking boat problem. 

 

And now, just for fun: I'll give you a piece of my mind, which will bring you no peace of mind.



#30 Southern Cross

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 12:21 AM

A life raft is a given. Suggestions on type. Deck mounted?

#31 BalticBandit

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 09:55 AM

Each Opti bag is good for roughly 300# of floatation.  Frankly as backup an inflatable weather baloon http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Quality-Diameter-Balloon-300Grams/dp/B004I45LX0/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1368265412&sr=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=inflatable+weather+balloon  8' diameter means roughly 25 cubic feet of volume.  3 off these weigh a total of 2.5#.  They don't have to last that long.  Just long enough for you to get a "crash mat" rigged over the hole and then pumped out.

SC - remind me to not sail anywhere near you!!! talk about Lightening striking twice....  I get your jitters though.  I had a bad collision skiing some 29 years ago and it took me 5 years just to be able to ski next to someone again.  and I still flinch when someone boards by me too closely.

 

That said, I don't think that sealing in your forepeak (and the comment about the dryrot is apt) is going to help much in the case of that sort of collision.  you might well invest in the weather ballons I described but have someone sew a nylon bag for them so that sharp bits down below don't pop them.  or get one of the larger ones (20' or 30' diameter) and simply underinflate them.   a 60ft3 cannister of compressed air is all you would need - essentially a scuba tank hooked up so all you do is twist open the valve and your boat will not sink even if it has been cut in half.



#32 Southern Cross

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:10 PM

Given all of this excellent advice I think I will go with the following. Chuck it all and just go sailing...

Just kidding.

I bought this boat because it's fast, was made for California sailing and it was built well. The chances of holing the boat for most people are slim to none. For me, there is a reasonable probability that it will happen given my history of boating, motorcycling, cycling, abseiling, spelunking and swimming (great White encounter) accidents. My luck, I'll hit one of the many whales we see around here.

1. Buy the life raft

2. Make the v-birth and transom sections watertight with inspection plates. No additional inflation devices or buoyancy (overkill).

3. Invest in other safety equipment. EPIRB etc.

4. Keep a 50 climber rifle on board to ward off any approaching powerboats

I don't know if I'm lucky or unlucky. I've had a lot of bad accidents by entering into inherently risky situations. But I'm still alive, I have all my limbs. I've just leaned you have to prepare for the worst case scenario as unlikely it might be.

Mucho Gracias

#33 Foolish

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:16 PM

The idea of sealing off the v-berth structure seems pointless to me if it does not create (along with other modifications) sufficient flotation to keep the boat at the surface. If, for example, you need 60 cubic feet to do the job and the modifications only provide 50, you are still going to sink.

Remember that the idea of sealing it is just as much as to keep water IN that section if the boat is holed below the water line, as it is to keep water OUT of that section if the boat is holed above the water line. 

 

 I don't like it because the lack of air circulation will rot the wood out,

The seal need not be permanent.  Rubber seals can be used on the access ports, and only closed when going offshore with the children.



#34 Southern Cross

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:34 PM



The idea of sealing off the v-berth structure seems pointless to me if it does not create (along with other modifications) sufficient flotation to keep the boat at the surface. If, for example, you need 60 cubic feet to do the job and the modifications only provide 50, you are still going to sink.

Remember that the idea of sealing it is just as much as to keep water IN that section if the boat is holed below the water line, as it is to keep water OUT of that section if the boat is holed above the water line. 
 

 I don't like it because the lack of air circulation will rot the wood out,

The seal need not be permanent.  Rubber seals can be used on the access ports, and only closed when going offshore with the children.
Exactly. Most of doing this is really just Dumbo's feather syndrome. http://m.youtube.com...h?v=_v2exWrsGOc

#35 Billy Higgins

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:56 PM

I have often wanted a water tight bulkhead forward, for all the usual reasons.  But in reality, just sealing off the after end of a vee berth is all that is needed for that end of the boat. 

But at the other end, rudder posts can and ocassionally do get ripped out, and that damage would be a lot harder to repair at sea.  So the idea of a full WT Bulkhead somewhere forward of the post makes a lot of sense. People like to use plywood for this, but a foam like Klegecell would be a lot lighter and easier to fit.



#36 Foolish

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:54 PM

A great idea Billy.  The stern bulkhead of the O30 already covers 2/3 of the space. It would be very simple to close it in completely.



#37 Southern Cross

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:14 PM

Yes. Klegecell would work just fine as weight and weight distribution on these boats is of particularly importance.

#38 Inter 20

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:25 PM

I was racing an O-30 offshore in the Santa Barbara Channel and had a very bizarre incident occur. It was a race out to Santa Cruz Island and back in mid February. We were about 7 miles from home and the sun had set. Water teperature was in the low 50s. Surfing down a wave at about 8 knots we came to a dead stop. All of us went flying forward. One crew was injured. We thought that we had hit an oil pipeline since we were near several oil platforms. My main concern was the keel. Was it damaged? Were we taking on water? Will the life raft really inflate? Then this black head pops up next to our boat with this big eye staring at us. We all freak out. WTF is that? The head drops back in the water. The O-30 bow comes up out of the water and we see this tail fluke against the side of the bow. We are out of control and flung around onto the other tack. A few seconds later we see a large Grey Whale quickly swims away along the surface. A crew member goes below and reports no damage to the keel. We survived a collision with a whale and the boat survived without any damage.

#39 Southern Cross

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:34 PM

I was racing an O-30 offshore in the Santa Barbara Channel and had a very bizarre incident occur. It was a race out to Santa Cruz Island and back in mid February. We were about 7 miles from home and the sun had set. Water teperature was in the low 50s. Surfing down a wave at about 8 knots we came to a dead stop. All of us went flying forward. One crew was injured. We thought that we had hit an oil pipeline since we were near several oil platforms. My main concern was the keel. Was it damaged? Were we taking on water? Will the life raft really inflate? Then this black head pops up next to our boat with this big eye staring at us. We all freak out. WTF is that? The head drops back in the water. The O-30 bow comes up out of the water and we see this tail fluke against the side of the bow. We are out of control and flung around onto the other tack. A few seconds later we see a large Grey Whale quickly swims away along the surface. A crew member goes below and reports no damage to the keel. We survived a collision with a whale and the boat survived without any damage.

Lucky I wasn't on that boat. You'd all be dead!

That's exactly where my boat is, a little further south at Channel Islands. Great story and glad to know that the boat can take getting humped by a whale.

There is a lot of marine life here. We're lucky.

#40 casc27

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:55 PM

I bet that whale wasn't very happy! You guys are lucky to only have one injury from that encounter.



#41 Lost in Translation

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:36 PM

We once slammed into a permanent buoy in SF Bay with an Olson 30.  Made an awful noise and vibration but the boat was fine.  They are sturdy boats for sure.  

 

I always heard that Dan Benjamin there did a lot of thinking on the safety of the boats and their ultimate flotation when he used to singlehand them to Hawaii.  It would be worth getting in touch with him if you can track him down. 



#42 Southern Cross

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:43 PM

Did it sound something like this?



#43 SMBReno

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 01:54 AM

Lots of good ideas here.  I think that the pointy end is so strong that sealing it with a crash bulkhead is not necessary.  Those are mainly used on larger boats that are doing 20 knots.

 

Sealing the V berth bottom would add about 1 pound of weight and be very simple to do, so it is the easiest way to get some piece of mind.  Nothing is perfect but this adds something.

 

The old sail- patch idea is very good, cheap and easy to understand.

 

Because the rudder is right behind the keel, it is difficult to think of how something could hit and break the rudder post to cause a large breach.

Happened to a J-120 but IIRC that was because a Cephalopod breached under the hull...

I believe you mean cetacean, not cephalopod (whale, not squid or octopus)....



#44 fucket

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 04:42 AM

 

Lots of good ideas here.  I think that the pointy end is so strong that sealing it with a crash bulkhead is not necessary.  Those are mainly used on larger boats that are doing 20 knots.

 

Sealing the V berth bottom would add about 1 pound of weight and be very simple to do, so it is the easiest way to get some piece of mind.  Nothing is perfect but this adds something.

 

The old sail- patch idea is very good, cheap and easy to understand.

 

Because the rudder is right behind the keel, it is difficult to think of how something could hit and break the rudder post to cause a large breach.

Happened to a J-120 but IIRC that was because a Cephalopod breached under the hull...

I believe you mean cetacean, not cephalopod (whale, not squid or octopus)....

 

Here's a picture of the incident:

 

giant-squid-attacking-ship-631.jpg



#45 BalticBandit

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 05:35 AM

oops my bad...  Cetacean is the right one.



#46 Southern Cross

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:12 PM

From the "Transpac They're Off" thread.

Wow, from the link in the last post:

Ahoy the fleet - beware of floating debris.
Between the Sheets reported a 35' tree trunk floating 100 yards off her port
bow at approximately 28-18N 134-59W.
Also - Manatea struck a 10' section of what probably was a telephone pole at
28-35N 138-54. Manatea and crew are ok and sailing. Manatea also reported misc.
floating lumber, "like structure of house".
 
Just saying .... A whole pier from my Birthplace, Misawa washed up on the Oregon Coast.






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