Jump to content


SUP vs Kayak? (cruising content)


  • Please log in to reply
104 replies to this topic

#1 greeng

greeng

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 50 posts
  • Interests:Blacksmithing, Beer, Boats.

Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:08 PM

Right now our dingy is a kayak. While it works for our purposes it takes up a lot of deck space and it doesn't carry much (or carry it very well) and it's awkward to get in and out of.  However, I ran across a roto-molded Stand Up Paddle board the other day with 350 lbs capacity, places for two big coolers, etc.

 

http://jacksonkayak....ng/superfishal/

 

It's nice and flat and would fit well on the foredeck. Here's the thing though - I don't know anything about SUP's.  So for any of you with knowledge - can I get on the thing without getting in the water first?  It looks more stable than our kayak (which I can stand on), but is it?.  I wonder how bad the windage would be with my 6'5" self standing on it would be?  How slow/fast compared to the kayak.  Etc, etc, etc.



#2 memopad

memopad

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,686 posts
  • Location:Marquette, MI

Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:43 PM

I haven't been on a SUP before but I've never been passed by one in my kayak... I usually see people kneeling on them when it gets rough or windy.  Could be for stability or windage.  I kind of doubt you'd get much improvement over a kayak in terms of easy of getting in/out and storage on the boat.  Instead you'll get something slower, less seaworthy, and potentially much wetter ;)



#3 bored broker

bored broker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 526 posts
  • Location:Burlington, VT
  • Interests:anything on water. Liquid or solid.

Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:45 PM

SO to be upfront with you, I sell these for a living. Here is my $.02.  The board you are refering to is supper stable. You will have NO problem keeping your balance on it unless you are a 300lbs idiot who drives a SeaRay. The big draw back to SUP is that you have a lot of windage and only one paddle. In high winds, you can kneel and use a kayak paddle. Body Glove sells a paddle that one end of it can be taken off and a handdle put on it so that it changes back and forth between being a kayak paddle and an SUP paddle. The only problem with the paddle is that it DOSE NOT FLOAT. Have fun and happy sailing.



#4 LLD

LLD

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 291 posts
  • Location:Halfway between equator and north pole

Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:53 PM

Shane Perrin may be able to give you some good advice.   He recently completed the 300-mile WaterTribe Everglades Challenge (Tampa Bay to Key Largo) in a little over six days on a SUP.  His email is listed in the lower portion of his blog: 
 
 


#5 SailRacer

SailRacer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,327 posts

Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:54 PM

If you get a SUP (which I like) get a pair of crokies for your sunglasses....

 

Sail safe!



#6 olaf hart

olaf hart

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,444 posts
  • Location:D'Entrecasteaux Channel

Posted 16 May 2013 - 09:50 PM

I would use a short fat sit on top kayak.

#7 bljones

bljones

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,435 posts
  • Location:CA
  • Interests:Sailing

Posted 16 May 2013 - 09:58 PM

a decent 8' roll-up dinghy is under $900.  

It can carry three people.

It can carry the gear that three people require, along with three people.

It can stow in a locker, a quarter berth or tow it.

The payload stays mostly dry.

 

The SUP you linked costs more.

Carries less.

Weighs more.

is harder to stow.

 

If you're willing to spend more, get a Porta-bote.

 

 

If you want something that takes up less space and carries more, you need a bigger boat, not a smaller board.



#8 Steam Flyer

Steam Flyer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,184 posts
  • Location:Eastern NC

Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:57 AM

After this years Everglades Challenge, which as noted above was completed by an SUP, I vowed to not make fun of them. So this comment is intended to be serious.

 

The SUP is a great form of exercise. They're a lot of fun in the right conditions. They're simple & reliable.

 

I would recommend checking one out with your cruising partner and see if you both agree they are practical before deciding to use one as a dinghy. And I am not saying this out of misplaced devotion to the conventional, I'm a guy who has seriously recommended an aluminum canoe for a yacht tender (done it, worked quite well for me).

 

FB- Doug



#9 soma

soma

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 956 posts

Posted 17 May 2013 - 01:04 AM

We have 4 Bali Solstice inflatable SUPs and we love em. You'd never really know they're inflatable and they roll away beautifully. They are $600 each at West Marine, $500 with Port Supply. My wife paddles in with the customs book with no fear. We'll go out to dinner well dressed paddling the SUPs in to shore.

#10 ewalker

ewalker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 184 posts
  • Location:bellingham wa
  • Interests:sailing

Posted 17 May 2013 - 01:11 AM

I have used kayaks, sups, and inflatable boats for cruising. We use the inflatable SUPs alot. they inflate ridged and work great great if the water is flat. when it gets wavy the boards seem to flex in the waves making them unstable. We also got extendable paddles, they store well as they get short and all your friends can use them.



#11 JBE

JBE

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 403 posts
  • Location:Auckland, NZ

Posted 17 May 2013 - 01:15 AM

We've had a couple of Redair units for about 3 seasons. Good fun , stow right away down below.



#12 Brodie

Brodie

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 323 posts

Posted 17 May 2013 - 02:40 AM

I also use a kayak as a dinghy - 11' sit in (although I recommend SOTs for most on-bigger-boat applications).  Compared to kayaks, SUPs are S-L-O-W (even the much less stable racing boards), and they are miserable in any kind of wind (unless you're just paddling downwind, then they are a blast).  Very easy to get on/off from the boat, but in any kind of waves whatever you have on the board will be wet unless it's in a drybag.  They are also wide - the board you are looking at is likely much wider than your kayak - it will stick up above the lifelines a good distance.  SUP is a lot of fun, much easier than most people think, but does have some drawbacks.  The only reason I would see having one on a larger boat is for fun or exercise while at anchor.  A good, basic sit on top IMO is the best choice for a small boat as a dinghy.

 

Disclosure: I sell both kayaks and SUPs and enjoy both (I own three kayaks and am looking for my "next" SUP).

DSC04210_zps98c452df.jpg

DSC04196_zpsa6ad5fc6.jpg



#13 Veeger

Veeger

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,345 posts
  • Location:Anacortes, Wa

Posted 17 May 2013 - 01:26 PM

So what's the deal with SUP's regarding have to wear a PFD?  Is it a boat which requires a PFD for everyone 'on board'?  I've seen a lot of folks without anything and wondered whether the Marine Patrol would write a ticket.



#14 Brodie

Brodie

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 323 posts

Posted 17 May 2013 - 04:05 PM

According to the Coasties (and most states), unless being used in the surf zone, a SUP is a vessel, and therefore has the same requirements as a vessel of the same size regarding pfds, whistle etc.  A LOT of people do not follow this rule.  It is a pain to wear a pfd while paddling a SUP (and the "fanny pack" inflatables are dorky) and many boards do not have tie down points for lashing a vest on deck.  The SUP world of course is vigorously arguing this rule.  There are also debates about whether or not to wear a leash on flatwater.  Both are a tough call - it's a lot easier to fall and hit your head on something while on a SUP, and if you do fall off and there is any wind, the board is going to be unreachable in seconds if you're not wearing a leash.  I always wear a leash but usually put the pfd on deck unless it's cold or there is some other reason I feel I need to wear it.  (For the record I ALWAYS wear a pfd while kayaking, and wear one sailing when I am solo, or with non sailors, which is 95% of the time).

DSC03546_zps838b41f9.jpg



#15 Alex W

Alex W

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,588 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Interests:sailboats, bikes, metalworking, diy

Posted 17 May 2013 - 04:45 PM

This topic is interesting to me.  I was really into kayaks before I got into sailing, and it makes me sad knowing that I'll be sailing past tons of great kayaking territory without a kayak.

 

However I haven't found a good kayak to carry on my sailboat.  My normal kayak is a Valley Nordkapp (18' long, so a bit long for a 28' sailboat).  I tried a Feathercraft K-Light because it will pack into a suitcase, but the suitcase still took up a lot of room on board and assembling the Feathercraft takes a while.  Carrying two (one for my wife) just wasn't going to be worth it.  The inflatable kayaks have the same issue with no packing down very small and don't paddle as well.

 

I've always sort of laughed at SUPs, but an inflatable SUP as a bring along toy is starting to look pretty compelling.  They seem to roll up small enough that we could fit two into the laz.  They aren't cheap, but they aren't too expensive.  They would be a fun way to silently check out the shoreline (something that kayaks are very good for), and maybe even be fun in tidal races the way that a good kayak is.

 

What's a lower end inflatable that works well?  For kayaking folks I guess that I'm looking for something like the Tempest 170 of iSUPs, not too expensive but not something that one will grow out of immediately.  Good for flat water and in currents.



#16 Brodie

Brodie

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 323 posts

Posted 17 May 2013 - 05:04 PM

Here's a good link that describles some of the choices and tradeoffs.  IMO, you definitely get what you pay for with inflatables, so plan on spending some $$ for a good one.  I've seen the NRS and Starboard inflatables and they are very nice.  Starboard even has an inflatable 12'6" touring/race board now!  The non-inflatable board in my previous post is also a Starboard.

 

http://cksblog.com/2...s-right-for-me/

 

Alex W - I had a Valley Anas Acuta for 9 years, and worked for the East Coast importer for Valley and North Shore.  I just sold the Anas and am waiting for a new North Shore Ocean to arrive from England.  I couldn't get the 17' Anas on my 30' Sea Sprite either, so I went with a Necky Manitou sport - 10'11"x26", with actual deck rigging and a moderate sized cockpit (it's a very mini "sea" kayak).  It's not a Valley, but it's actually pretty fun to paddle compared to most tubby rec boats, but short enough to get on deck and stable enough to stand in.



#17 Ship4Brains

Ship4Brains

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 33 posts
  • Location:Somewhere in the midwest
  • Interests:Cruising, kayaking, music, video & photography.

Posted 17 May 2013 - 07:23 PM

I love to kayak and almost always bring one with as the anchorages we visit are usually freakin awesome places to paddle around in. But we always have a dinghy for hauling people, gear, and groceries back and forth from shore. If you didn't have much need to haul things a yak might work- but anything large enough to be useful at hauling stuff (E.g. a double, sit-on-top) would suck to paddle solo. That being said I'm springing for a sit-on-top kayak to leave with our boat this season, a Wilderness Systems Tarpon 100: 600 × 293 - marshbunny.com. It's decent to paddle, stable, and has a reasonable amount of space for groceries, etc. Now I'm just wondering if I can fit the Necky, Tarpon, and the dinghy on deck all at once if needed...



#18 Brodie

Brodie

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 323 posts

Posted 17 May 2013 - 07:51 PM

Tarpon 100 is a great little boat.  I've sold many to folks intending to put them on larger boats.  Ocean Kayak Frenzy is another good choice, especially for kids or smaller folks - there are a few knockoffs out there too, here's me paddling RTM's version of a Frenzy (called a Mambo) in the BVIs.  had a lot of fun paddling that little boat, although the heavy clunky paddle was another story...anyone looking to get a kayak, don't skimp on a paddle!!

 

DSC00527_zpsd454ffe9.jpg



#19 bert s

bert s

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 105 posts
  • Location:Cordova, Alaska
  • Interests:Women, Boats, Liquor, not in any particular order.
    Fish'n (mass murderer, not serial killer or torturer)

Posted 19 May 2013 - 07:31 PM

Bought an Innova Helios from REI years ago. Took it on the plane (under 50# packed with paddles) to lots of exotic locales. Great having a boat to get away from all those who don't have one. 2 person open top sit in. You get yer butt wet in it most times if not really careful. It tied to the rail of several charters quite nicely, and it was good to have a second dink. The glue started letting go after 10 years, and the inflatable shop quoted $500 to repair what was bad, but we would just be chasing the problem. Went back to REI and explained this, and they replaced it.



#20 Catalina 36

Catalina 36

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 441 posts
  • Location:Leesburg, VA

Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:23 AM

So, I was walking down the street with my buddy and we saw this really hot chick, and he say's, "Man, I'd like to bang her in the worst way!"  I said "Really?, why would you want to do her standing up in a hammock?"

 

 

That's what a SUP seems like to me.  The absolute worst way to move across the surface of the water.



#21 Kirwan

Kirwan

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,212 posts
  • Location:San Diego
  • Interests:um... boats?

Posted 21 May 2013 - 03:37 AM

What are the pro's and cons of 'Sit-inside' vs. 'Sit on top' Kayaks? - especially wrt use from a sailboat.

 

I've only ever paddled sit-in's; it seems to me the sit-on's would be fun in swimsuit conditions.  The SF Bay isn't that.. ever.

Brodie's pic above (first one, at the dock) looks like a great boat to me (I gotta stay <12ft)



#22 Brodie

Brodie

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 323 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 04:03 AM

"sit-ins" (I wish there was a better term than this):

Pros: drier ride, some sun protection on the lower body (depending on boat), boat usually a little lighter than comparable SOT, boat can be narrower due to lower center of gravity.  IF boat has bulkheads then semi-dry storage.  Generally better performance than SOTs (with some notable exceptions)

Cons: safety of smaller, "recreational" sit ins with no or one bulkhead - not self rescuing, can swamp - NOT suitable for rough water.  Yes you may stay "drier" than in a SOT but if the water's cold you shouldn't be out there without a wetsuit or drysuit anyway.  Longer touring boats that are safe in rough water (are designed for it actually) require more advanced skills and techniques to re-enter (or learn to roll) but can use a skirt to keep most water out

 

"SOTs":

Pros: Safety due to boat being one big sealed buoyancy chamber, any water than comes aboard drains back out, easier for some folks to get in and out of, easy to climb back on from the water - BEST option for a stable, recreational kayak that can handle some rough water.  Great for taking kids, dogs, going fishing, etc.

Cons: wetter ride, usually wider than comparable sit-in (less performance oriented), some lacking in seating comfort, usually heavier

 

SOTs somehow have earned a reputation as "toy" boats or "kids" boats - but in many situations they are the preferred choice, usually because of the safety of one sealed compartment.  Honestly you don't get that much wetter in a SOT than in a large cockpit, recreational sit in boat.

 

Cat 36 - I think the SUP 'craze' will be a flash in the pan.... another year or two and you won't hear much about them again.



#23 Alex W

Alex W

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,588 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Interests:sailboats, bikes, metalworking, diy

Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:33 AM

In real waves the narrower "sit in" is more stable than the wider "sit on top".  If the wave is coming on your beam than the wider beam of the sit on will make it follow the angle of the face of the wave, up until the point that it dumps you.  The narrower sit-in will pivot on the wave (with your bracing stroke helping) and stay more upright.  The two images demonstrate that:

 

Wide:

stability.gif

 

Narrow:

stability2.gif

 

(from http://www.meetup.co.../thread/7171360)

 

However the sit-ins that do best in rough water are long and narrow and don't fit that nicely onto sailboats.  My kayak is almost 18' long and only 20" wide.  The length is partially necessary for buoyancy.  A good compromise might be a Mariner Coaster (a shorter rough water kayak), but it is still 14' long (and hasn't been made for a decade and has a strong cult following, so they aren't easy to find).  For just paddling around an anchorage in protected waters this is less important.

 

I don't really get SUPs either, but the storage size of an iSUP is nice on a smaller sailboat.

 

That kayak at the dock appears to not have a forward bulkhead.  If it is paddled and swamps without a floatation bag up front it could do a "cleopatra's needle" where the rear is poking out of the water and the front is 10' below and full of water.  That is hard to recover from.

 

On Puget Sound I end up wearing a wetsuit or drysuit almost year round unless I'm in very protected waters.



#24 B.J. Porter

B.J. Porter

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 34,364 posts
  • Location:On my boat, somewhere...
  • Interests:Hallberg-Rassy 53 "Evenstar"

Posted 21 May 2013 - 01:27 PM

I'm struggling to see how you'd get very many groceries back to the boat with either option.



#25 Brodie

Brodie

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 323 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:58 PM

Alex W - you are right, but I left out the "narrow boats are better in rough water" part because as you stated, long skinny boats don't work well as dinghies.

 

BTW, there are long, narrow SOTs, too - surf skis.

 

The kayak in the photo does not have a front bulkhead.  At this length (11') there just isnt much space up there in front of the foot pegs to fit a functional bulkhead.  That boat does have a foam pillar as a stiffener.  So yes, it is not an easily self-rescuable boat.  Which is why I usually recommend SOTs for dinghy use, and for recreational use where rough water or swamping is a possibility.  I use that boat as a way to get to the sailboat (which is on a mooring) after the launch service ends.  So all it really has to do is get me and maybe my dinner and a small overnight bag 100 yds out to the boat.  It also fits on deck so I can putt around different harbors when I get somewhere.  When I start doing more cruising, I'll likely end up with a small inflatable dinghy.



#26 steele

steele

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 957 posts
  • Location:Land of the locks

Posted 22 May 2013 - 05:55 PM

I have used a rigid sit-ins, an inflatable sit-in, sit-on, as well as rigid and inflatable dinks.  The best so far for my 30 ft sailboat is a good quality hypalon inflatable without a rigid stern.  I picked up a used avon redcrest on CR a few years ago and use it more than the rest.  It is dry, easy to lug up the beach, tows fine for short trips, and is easy to store on deck partialy deflated or bagged in a berth.  I can inflate it with a manual pump in under 10 mins.  

 

A problem with sit in yaks is getting into one from the boat.  Getting into a narrow cockpit of a yak using a boarding ladder is very hard on the arms and sholders.  I ended with a large cockpit short kayak (a CLC wood duck).  By using a spray skirt it is ok in rougher water.  I put a towing eye low on the bow and for calm water tow it as often as I keep it on deck.  A cockpit cover is needed for towing, but it has never turtled even at hull speed in chop.  The inflatible is a Strerns and came with the boat, it paddles better than you would think by looking at it and is easy to board from the boat.  The combination of the rigid and inflatable yaks is great for puttering around anchorages in the evening for the wife and I, but load hauling is limited at best.



#27 DAC

DAC

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 44 posts

Posted 24 May 2013 - 05:40 PM

I've been running through a similar debate with regards to kayak vs inflatable vs SUP and keep coming back to the Sea Eagle Fast Track inflatable kayak.  It rolls up small, can transport two people and can carry groceries.   They claim that it can also be used standing up, which may make for fun in an anchorage. That said, I've never used one.   



#28 steele

steele

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 957 posts
  • Location:Land of the locks

Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:27 PM

I have not used a sea eagle, but my single sterns inflatable is similar, including front and year skeg. I works fine for what it is. I have also used a sevylor and aire double inflatable yaks. The biggest problem with all of them is getting a wet ass. They are low freeboard and you sit on the floor. Even with inflatable floors or seats it is hard to stay dry. None will have the stability or load capacity of a proper small inflatable dink.

#29 Ishmael

Ishmael

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,042 posts
  • Location:Fuctifino

Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:31 PM

I have been looking at kayak options, since they seem like a good way to get around near the shore. We have a West Marine inflatable 'yak (made by Advanced Elements) and my wife really likes it. I was thinking of a hardbody kayak for myself, but I like to drag big bags of camera gear around with me, so I think I will stick with the inflatable dinghy as a shooting platform. It's no harder to row than the inflatable kayak and holds a lot more stuff, dryer.

Plus I can leave the motor on and make serious time if I want...



#30 Kirwan

Kirwan

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,212 posts
  • Location:San Diego
  • Interests:um... boats?

Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:45 PM

"sit-ins" ...  Generally better performance than SOTs (with some notable exceptions)

 

Care to elaborate on this?  I understand that the 9' sit-in pumpkin seed from Costco won't compare to a good 12' SOT.... 

Maybe you can point out a few 'stand out' SOT's that actually paddle well?   

 

I do have an inflatable dink with O/B, but I also singlehand a lot, and just tossing a plastic 'yak over the side and slipping around the anchorage sounds mighty nice. 



#31 Brodie

Brodie

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 323 posts

Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:41 AM

Sure...most SOTs were designed for stability and ease of use first, and because of the higher center of gravity of the paddler, a "comparable" (in stability) SOT will be a little wider than the sit-in boat of the same length.  Wider = slower.

 

In either case, to gain speed and performance you are going to sacrifice initial stability and require more length - but some examples of "performance" oriented SOTs that paddle very well without being super tippy would be Necky's Vector 13 and Vector 14 and Current Designs' Kestrel 140 SOT (which is unfortunately out of production now).  Guessing that since we're talking about using kayaks as dinghies/anchorage toys that boats like the CD Zone and entry level surf skis like the Stellar SR and Epic V6 or V8 are going to be too long (16' - 18').

 

IMO the Wilderness Systems Tarpons (100 and 120) paddle very well, have comfortable seats and lots of bells and whistles.  For simplicity's sake, you can't really go wrong with Ocean Kayak's old standby's, the Frenzy (9') and Scrambler (11.5').  I am a certified kayak snob and I had a blast in a Frenzy in the Caribbean.  Ocean Kayak has gotten away from some of their older (slow) hull designs like the Tridents so some of their newer efforts like the Venus 11 and Tetra 10 aren't bad boats either.  In general, most SOTs that are marketed as "anglers" paddle like bricks, because they are designed to carry tons of gear and be super stable.  So boats like the Ocean Kayak Tridents and Wilderness System Ride aren't going to be as pleasant for just paddling around, but they are great fishing machines.

 

Obviously there are more brands out there but these are the ones I am familiar with.  The shop I worked for carried about 15 different lines but we didn't have them all - so I don't know much about Hobie, Jackson, Emotion and a few other common brands.  FWIW, with the exception of Hobie, we generally only carried boats that we liked, so that may tell you something about the lines we didn't have.  The shop owner would have loved to get Hobie in, but there was another dealer too close so Hobie wouldn't open us up.



#32 olaf hart

olaf hart

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,444 posts
  • Location:D'Entrecasteaux Channel

Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:36 AM

We have a couple of old glass SOT's, a bit over 14'.

They were designed in NZ, called a dolphin.

They get a lot of use, and can be repaired easily because they are glass.

We bought them for not much from a hire business that was closing.

We have had them over ten years, and they get a lot of use. Pretty stable, but they are fast enough for cruising. The only boats that pass us are surf skis and very thin kayaks.

Have never used them to get to the boat, I would think we would need a boarding platform or an open transom to use them safely.

#33 Mark Morwood

Mark Morwood

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 281 posts
  • Location:Out crusiing - Bahamas, Atlantic, Med, Caribbean, Pacific
  • Interests:Catana 48
    "Por Dos"

Posted 25 May 2013 - 11:16 AM

As much as I like our inflatable SUPs as boat toys, I think you would be better off with a kayak if it is to be your dinghy as well. Personally like some previous posters, I think you'd be even better off looking at a small inflatable dinghy for ferrying groceries and people, but that may not fit your boat or desires.

 

Anecdotal support for this suggestion comes from friends of ours who are enthusiastic kayakers and are cruising full time on their Westsail 32.  They started with two hard kayaks as their primary tender, with a small inflatable dinghy with oars as backup. They still use the kayaks for exploring, but have added power to the dinghy for when the need a tender - they first powered it with a salvaged electric outboard before finally switching to a small gas outboard.

 

Mark.



#34 Publius Johnson

Publius Johnson

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 36,616 posts
  • Location:Punta Gorda FL
  • Interests:~~/)/)~~

Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:59 AM

So, I was walking down the street with my buddy and we saw this really hot chick, and he say's, "Man, I'd like to bang her in the worst way!"  I said "Really?, why would you want to do her standing up in a hammock?"

 

 

That's what a SUP seems like to me.  The absolute worst way to move across the surface of the water.

 


I would have agreed until a couple of years ago, when I was out for a morning paddle in an inlet just south of here. The bird and fish life was incredible and some guy on an SUP arrived to enjoy the show. We were both just cruising around slowly, doing the same things, except his head was 6' above water level while mine was under 3' up. He had a much better angle for looking down into the water.

 

The next year, a friend brought his SUP to the same place and I took it out. There was a strong wind and tide going in the same direction. Fighting it on the SUP was much harder than on a kayak. I guess kneeling with a double ended paddle would have been better, but I would rather sit.



#35 B.J. Porter

B.J. Porter

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 34,364 posts
  • Location:On my boat, somewhere...
  • Interests:Hallberg-Rassy 53 "Evenstar"

Posted 30 May 2013 - 04:07 PM

We have a Pakboat Puffin Saranac two person folding Kayak on board.  It folds down to a decently small package and weighs about 27 lbs.

 

My son can get it set up in under an hour on deck, and it works well with two - I imagine their single seater is OK to.  We have the optional deck cover, which keeps down spray, but still for wind and chop a skirt would help.  Or some way to close the forward hole if there's only one person on board.  They sell a deck with a single hole, and you can rig it with one seat in the middle but we did not get the second deck.

 

It uses air tubes down the side to provide floatation and rigidity to the cloth & frame structure.

 

Pros:

- Light

- Fast

- Not too hard to put together once you've done it a few times.

- Packs down to about the size of a rolling carry-on, maybe a tiny bit larger.

- Reasonably tough, considering what it is

 

Cons:

- You do have to put the thing together, and take it apart later. 

- It's obviously not as rugged as a hunk of PVC or plastic, you can bend the tube and break things more easily.

- Some of the valves can be tricky, particularly the valves in the seat cushions.

- As it is so light you do need to make sure you secure it well when not in use.

 

 

It only comes out occasionally.  We've got the RIB and the Portland Pudgy for every day usage, the Kayak is a bit of a specialty item for when we anchor someplace more protected with less wind.  Right now in Bequia with gusts into the mid/upper 20's it's not coming out.  Someplace like Tobago Keys might be a good kayak spot.



#36 TeamGladiator

TeamGladiator

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,124 posts
  • Location:Portland, OR
  • Interests:Traveling to far away sailing venues and terrorizing the locals!

Posted 01 June 2013 - 04:48 PM

We just picked up a pair of 10' kayaks at Dick's for $199 each... cheap enough that if we don't like the option we can Craigslist them for what we paid.

 

And, yes, on a SUP you need a PFD... friend got a citation from the sheriff for not having one.  He argued, "WTF?!? you aren't giving tickets to those dudes RIGHT THERE that are surfing with no PFD!"  The sheriff responded, "they don't have a paddle, and as soon as you use a paddle you are a boat and you have to have a PFD."  He tried to fight it in court... lost there too.  YMMV



#37 Mark Morwood

Mark Morwood

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 281 posts
  • Location:Out crusiing - Bahamas, Atlantic, Med, Caribbean, Pacific
  • Interests:Catana 48
    "Por Dos"

Posted 01 June 2013 - 07:18 PM

Yep - the coast guard decided that SUPs are vessels (like kayaks, but unlike surfboards and windsurfers) so you have to have a lifejacket etc with you if you are outside a swim or surf zone. I understand there have been efforts to have that relaxed if you have a leash on, but I don't believe they have come to anything.

 

http://coastguard.do...paddleboarding/

 

Mark.



#38 James McMullen

James McMullen

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 141 posts
  • Location:Anacortes
  • Interests:masturbation, gluttony, random acts of violence, karaoke

Posted 03 June 2013 - 02:44 AM

SUP's are nowhere near as easy as a kayak to get anywhere as soon as there is any wind or chop at all. The kind of wind or waves you don't even notice in a kayak is a much bigger deal (unless it's favorable, blowing you downwind)

#39 miscut jib

miscut jib

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,336 posts

Posted 03 June 2013 - 03:16 AM

SUP's are nowhere near as easy as a kayak to get anywhere as soon as there is any wind or chop at all. The kind of wind or waves you don't even notice in a kayak is a much bigger deal (unless it's favorable, blowing you downwind)

 

That's when you get out your SUP sail

tumblr_mnob7itdSt1qcvi9jo2_1280.jpg\

 

Only $129.95 +$9.95 S/H, call now, operators are standing by!



#40 Kenny Dumas

Kenny Dumas

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 784 posts
  • Location:Oregon

Posted 05 June 2013 - 05:22 PM

Sure seems like you could strap a couple of any of these toys together when you want to make a grocery run.  Anybody try it?



#41 Ship4Brains

Ship4Brains

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 33 posts
  • Location:Somewhere in the midwest
  • Interests:Cruising, kayaking, music, video & photography.

Posted 05 June 2013 - 05:33 PM

SUP's are nowhere near as easy as a kayak to get anywhere as soon as there is any wind or chop at all. The kind of wind or waves you don't even notice in a kayak is a much bigger deal (unless it's favorable, blowing you downwind)

 

That's when you get out your SUP sail

tumblr_mnob7itdSt1qcvi9jo2_1280.jpg\

 

Only $129.95 +$9.95 S/H, call now, operators are standing by!

Good for down wind only I'm guessing.



#42 Brodie

Brodie

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 323 posts

Posted 05 June 2013 - 07:18 PM

Yes, which isn't very helpful as SUPs are very easy to paddle downwind anyway.  It's upwind that sucks.



#43 JBE

JBE

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 403 posts
  • Location:Auckland, NZ

Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:19 PM

Sure seems like you could strap a couple of any of these toys together when you want to make a grocery run.  Anybody try it?

 

 

 Hell yeah, doesn't everyone?

 

IMG_2400_12.jpg

 

IMG_2401_13.jpg



#44 Kirwan

Kirwan

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,212 posts
  • Location:San Diego
  • Interests:um... boats?

Posted 04 January 2015 - 09:24 PM

Digging up an old thread, but this seemed the right place for this....

Here's a story:
The Wilderness Systems Tarpon has been a popular Kayak for years; oriented at fishing, but a good all around boat. Has lots of features, and retails just south of $1000. I'm a cheap bastich, so I've been making do with a $200 thing I got from Craig's list.

In 2008, They updated the design, and made new molds. The old mold was used to create boats marketed under the name 'Perception Pescador', but is essentially the same hull as the pre 2008 Tarpon.

Recently, the mold has changed hands again, and is now being used to make a boat for West Marine, called the 'Pompano'.

I bought one on a black Friday deal for $399 including an ok Fiberglass paddle - but not the seat back. I found the seat back from an e-bay seller for $30.

kayak1small_zpsfadb59f3.jpg


Spent the week with it, and I really love this boat - gotta be one of the best 'bang for your buck' kayaks out there. It's got the features like adjustable foot pegs and hatches, and the rigid seat back is miles ahead of the 'hammock sling' style- it gives something solid to brace against. As mentioned, initial stability is a bit low - which is good, I think it helps the speed. The secondary stability is great, it was nice for entry/exit from my boat. At 12', it's got a deep forefoot and substantial keel, and tracks really well. At one point I was paddling against 2-3 knots of max ebb, into 10-15kts of wind, and still making good progress.... and I'm fat and out of shape.

It's a bit more difficult to stow than my older one, but it paddles so much better it's worth the effort.

#45 armido

armido

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 800 posts
  • Location:Varies
  • Interests:Sailing of course. Travel, adventure, change, meeting people everywhere I go and eating their food... Linux. Trying to break my Xoom tablet getting Android off and Linux on. Stirring the waters...

Posted 06 January 2015 - 10:11 PM

My solution for the last 23 years has been a combination of kayaks.  The primary is a Kiwi brand Lobo kayak, 9.2' in length.  This kayak has a 'moulded in' handle that doesn't take much explaining as to the benefits.  It fits snugly alongside the doghouse inside the safety netting.

 

Attached File  tmp_2291-1stdirect_2268_2106178299200331.jpeg   48.44KB   5 downloads

 

The second kayak, an inflatable, is from Advanced Designs.

 

Attached File  tmp_2291-AdvancedFrame-Pg_2_22-1261081783.jpg   52.25KB   5 downloads 

 

Most things can be moved between the boat and shore, whether a bicycle or provisions for a long passage, by towing one behind the other.  The lobo will hold more groceries behind the removable seat back than I can carry in my backpack, and the inflatable, a bike and more of whatever I have to move at the moment. 

 

The A.D. inflates quickly for use and deflates easily for storage in the supplied storage bag. 

 

I tried a Bombard inflatable early in my experience.  Heavy, bulky and although it had little use the floor separated from the bow tubing while stored in the aft cabin.  A bitch to put together, inflate, paddle and when deflated, stow.  So, moved to kayaks and never looked back. 

 

One other great advantage in using a kayak is squeezing into a crowded dingy dock.  Also easy to lift and carry elsewhere along a dock, or to a slip if your blocked inside by behemouth inflatables and aluminum fishing boats used as dingies...



#46 Snore

Snore

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 975 posts
  • Location:S FLA
  • Interests:Sailing,

Posted 06 January 2015 - 10:13 PM

armido

 

What model do you use?  Also how old is it?  I thought the AD were PVC and as such would wear out quickly.

 

thanks



#47 armido

armido

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 800 posts
  • Location:Varies
  • Interests:Sailing of course. Travel, adventure, change, meeting people everywhere I go and eating their food... Linux. Trying to break my Xoom tablet getting Android off and Linux on. Stirring the waters...

Posted 06 January 2015 - 10:32 PM

I bought the Advanced Designs model used so don't know how much use was into it at the time.  I can only say it has held up to infrequent use by me, performing a tow or pull role when required.  Maybe two, three times a year?  At least it hasn't deglued like the Bombard did.  I own the Advanced Frame model as shown on this site.  http://www.advancede...ancedframe.html

 

The Kiwi's are roto-moulded polyethelene.  Have never protected them from the elements, and except for a little discoloration they've held up for more than 4 years in south of the equator environments.  I prefer the Lobo due to my size.  But, both the Lobo at 9.2' and Kopapa at 8.7' will carry a five gallon container of diesel or water behind the removable seat back.

 


armido

 

What model do you use?  Also how old is it?  I thought the AD were PVC and as such would wear out quickly.

 

thanks



#48 Alex W

Alex W

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,588 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Interests:sailboats, bikes, metalworking, diy

Posted 06 January 2015 - 11:22 PM

The bladders in the AD are PVC.  The exterior fabric is a heavy grade cordura that is pretty tough.  It's a pretty smart way to make them cheaply.

 

I hated how my AD kayak paddled, I'd rather row a hard dinghy.



#49 toddster

toddster

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,013 posts
  • Location:The Gorge

Posted 06 January 2015 - 11:28 PM

I keep imagining experimenting with some sort of detachable ama that would allow you to deploy a trampoline to carry bicycle, etc.  Then of course, the whole thing would reconfigure into a bicycle trailer on the beach.  

 

Probably a good thing I don't have quite that much spare time...



#50 Snore

Snore

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 975 posts
  • Location:S FLA
  • Interests:Sailing,

Posted 07 January 2015 - 12:52 AM

Thanks for the feedback.

It is looking more and more like taking the hit and buying a used Klepper or Feathercraft is the solution for my situation.

#51 captain_crunch

captain_crunch

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 169 posts
  • Location:Smithfield, VA
  • Interests:Sailing, Kayaking, Sculling, & Oyster Gardening.

Posted 07 January 2015 - 02:14 AM

I have a collection of sea kayaks.  The one I use most often is an Ascend A10.  It's small and light enough to be easy to lift, but it feels stable and tracks straight.  The seat is comfy and there is plenty of room for cargo aft of the seat.  

 

ascend_a10_2.jpg

 

Prior to buying the Ascend A10, I used a sit-on-top.  Even in calm water, I found that enough water would come through the drain ports to get the seat of my pants wet.  I bought a set of plugs for the drain ports, but that defeated the whole purpose of the drains.



#52 Publius Johnson

Publius Johnson

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 36,616 posts
  • Location:Punta Gorda FL
  • Interests:~~/)/)~~

Posted 07 January 2015 - 12:19 PM

The Cowmaran guy wants to build a lightweight SUP catamaran. Model pics:

 

cat-sup-hulls.jpg

 

cat-sup-top.jpg

 

The idea is to fish while standing up, even in places a Cowmaran can not go.



#53 A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake

A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,733 posts
  • Location:Virginia

Posted 07 January 2015 - 02:53 PM

The Cowmaran guy wants to build a lightweight SUP catamaran. Model pics:

 

cat-sup-hulls.jpg

 

cat-sup-top.jpg

 

The idea is to fish while standing up, even in places a Cowmaran can not go.

 

If he wants a boat for that, tell him to look at a WS Tarpon140  or Ride135.  Of course, if he's more interested in seeing what he can build, ignore my comment, and share his results! 



#54 Kirwan

Kirwan

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,212 posts
  • Location:San Diego
  • Interests:um... boats?

Posted 07 January 2015 - 04:11 PM

The Cowmaran guy wants to build a lightweight SUP catamaran. Model pics:
 
cat-sup-hulls.jpg
 
cat-sup-top.jpg
 
The idea is to fish while standing up, even in places a Cowmaran can not go.

Much as I love the inspired insanity that appears to be in play here, I gotta ask:

Transoms on a paddle boat?

Ooh, just lash two canoes (or surfskis) into a catamaran!

I wonder how long before it gets a chair put on it and a trolling motor, and ..... you might as well have a livingston. (Kaboat?)

#55 Alex W

Alex W

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,588 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Interests:sailboats, bikes, metalworking, diy

Posted 07 January 2015 - 05:55 PM

Thanks for the feedback.

It is looking more and more like taking the hit and buying a used Klepper or Feathercraft is the solution for my situation.

 

Having owned a Feathercraft K-Light, and now owning a Oru folding kayak I would strongly recommend the latter for sailboat service.

 

It's 1/4 the price, performs as well if not better, and folds and unfolds much much faster.  There are no concerns with aluminum corrosion welding the frame together, and the Oru is probably more durable.

 

You can buy a new Oru for less than the cost of most used Feathercrafts.  Yes, it seems expensive for a big piece of coroplast, but it really is a better solution.



#56 Asymptote

Asymptote

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,935 posts
  • Location:Seattle

Posted 07 January 2015 - 06:25 PM

So, what ever happened to the good old-fashioned actual dinghy?  

 

I tow a 9' fiberglass dinghy that rows like a dream and can carry three adults, plus gear bags or groceries.  All at once.

You can put on a trolling motor or row at a nice steady clip with actual oars for great distances.  

You can go fishing in it and anchor it.

It tows like a dream sitting on the face of the second stern wave and has been towed in 30 knots without shipping any water.  

It tucks up nicely in a mooring slip.  

It pulls up nicely on to beaches.

You can literally jump into it from on deck, or more gracefully just step on board from the rail or a ladder.

You will never fall off of it.

It will sit nicely on the foredeck for long term storage or for a really lumpy passage.  Two people or a halyard lift.

 

In other words, it surpasses all of the kayak, SUP options by almost any test.



#57 IStream

IStream

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,768 posts
  • Location:Seattle
  • Interests:Staying afloat

Posted 07 January 2015 - 06:59 PM

FWIW, I got one of these last year and love it. It's light, it doesn't have a separate bladder system so it dries out quickly and completely, and rolls down to the size of a backpack. It seems pretty tough but time will tell.

 

http://www.innovakay...product=8655283



#58 Grey Dawn

Grey Dawn

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 370 posts
  • Location:Annapolis
  • Interests:Spouse, Sailing, Science, Skiing, Snorkeling, Scuba, Swirl, Sniff, Sip, Swallow, Savor

Posted 07 January 2015 - 07:18 PM

What would you buy if you wanted to leave a cheap, small dinghy/kayak/canoe/rowboat on a rocky beach for paddling 300 yards to a moored small sailboat?

 

It will have to stand up to sun, scrapes, and other abuse and be stable enough so you can easily board the sailboat and transfer supplies without too much danger of falling in the water. I'm thinking a used aluminum rowboat. A Walker Bay with a tube skirt might also be good if you remove the skirt before leaving it on the beach.



#59 Alex W

Alex W

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,588 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Interests:sailboats, bikes, metalworking, diy

Posted 07 January 2015 - 08:46 PM

So, what ever happened to the good old-fashioned actual dinghy?  

 

Nothing.

 

I occasionally bring a kayak along in addition to the dinghy.  If I'm going to have a full boat (ie, more than my wife and I) then it is nice to have two forms of transport and evening exploration.

 

If I'm going to be paddling a few miles the kayak is also a lot faster (though you give up most cargo capacity).

 

If I can only bring one it is the dinghy.  Since my boat is small that is normally the case.



#60 Ishmael

Ishmael

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,042 posts
  • Location:Fuctifino

Posted 07 January 2015 - 08:56 PM

So, what ever happened to the good old-fashioned actual dinghy?  

 

I tow a 9' fiberglass dinghy that rows like a dream and can carry three adults, plus gear bags or groceries.  All at once.

You can put on a trolling motor or row at a nice steady clip with actual oars for great distances.  

You can go fishing in it and anchor it.

It tows like a dream sitting on the face of the second stern wave and has been towed in 30 knots without shipping any water.  

It tucks up nicely in a mooring slip.  

It pulls up nicely on to beaches.

You can literally jump into it from on deck, or more gracefully just step on board from the rail or a ladder.

You will never fall off of it.

It will sit nicely on the foredeck for long term storage or for a really lumpy passage.  Two people or a halyard lift.

 

In other words, it surpasses all of the kayak, SUP options by almost any test.

 

How is it for rolling up and storing on the quarterberth for the winter?



#61 Kirwan

Kirwan

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,212 posts
  • Location:San Diego
  • Interests:um... boats?

Posted 07 January 2015 - 09:04 PM

Asymptote, on 07 Jan 2015 - 10:33, said:
So, what ever happened to the good old-fashioned actual dinghy?

I tow a 9' fiberglass dinghy that rows like a dream and can carry three adults, plus gear bags or groceries. All at once.
You can put on a trolling motor or row at a nice steady clip with actual oars for great distances.
You can go fishing in it and anchor it.
It tows like a dream sitting on the face of the second stern wave and has been towed in 30 knots without shipping any water.
It tucks up nicely in a mooring slip.
It pulls up nicely on to beaches.
You can literally jump into it from on deck, or more gracefully just step on board from the rail or a ladder.
You will never fall off of it.
It will sit nicely on the foredeck for long term storage or for a really lumpy passage. Two people or a halyard lift.

In other words, it surpasses all of the kayak, SUP options by almost any test.

Nothing wrong with actual hard dinghies, but that's not what this thread is about.
If you don't think a Kayak or SUP isn't the appropriate tender, don't get one, but why bitch when others do?

SUP's and Kayaks have a different 'fun factor' that may sway some decisions. Ever surfed your hard shell boat? Ever had to avoid landing because of breakers?
Storage is different for everyone. I'd lose the whole foredeck on my 28 footer to a hard dink, but an inflatable can be rolled and stowed. If I could store it under the boom, I'd reconsider (gonna need a bigger boat).
For that matter, I can stow a kayak or two inside for passages (or when away from the boat). Or even put both on the foredeck and still open the hatch for air.
Personally, I've never been big on towing a dinghy, it can get pretty rough where I sail... or maybe it's my old racer roots showing.

And finally, "Rows like a dream" means something different to everyone. I googled that phrase, and got long shells, whitehalls and tubby little boxes all on the same page.
Same goes for "light and easy to haul onto the boat". One person can easily ship a plastic kayak.

Guess that's why there are so many different types of boats.

#62 Shaggy

Shaggy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,118 posts
  • Location:Co
  • Interests:This is SA, you figure it out.......

Posted 07 January 2015 - 09:07 PM

So, what ever happened to the good old-fashioned actual dinghy?  

 

I tow a 9' fiberglass dinghy that rows like a dream and can carry three adults, plus gear bags or groceries.  All at once.

You can put on a trolling motor or row at a nice steady clip with actual oars for great distances.  

You can go fishing in it and anchor it.

It tows like a dream sitting on the face of the second stern wave and has been towed in 30 knots without shipping any water.  

It tucks up nicely in a mooring slip.  

It pulls up nicely on to beaches.

You can literally jump into it from on deck, or more gracefully just step on board from the rail or a ladder.

You will never fall off of it.

It will sit nicely on the foredeck for long term storage or for a really lumpy passage.  Two people or a halyard lift.

 

In other words, it surpasses all of the kayak, SUP options by almost any test.

 

How is it for rolling up and storing on the quarterberth for the winter?

It will sit nicely on the foredeck for long term storage or for a really lumpy passage.  Two people or a halyard lift.

I

 think that just about covers it.....  



#63 Kirwan

Kirwan

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,212 posts
  • Location:San Diego
  • Interests:um... boats?

Posted 07 January 2015 - 09:12 PM

Grey Dawn, on 07 Jan 2015 - 11:26, said:
What would you buy if you wanted to leave a cheap, small dinghy/kayak/canoe/rowboat on a rocky beach for paddling 300 yards to a moored small sailboat?

It will have to stand up to sun, scrapes, and other abuse and be stable enough so you can easily board the sailboat and transfer supplies without too much danger of falling in the water. I'm thinking a used aluminum rowboat. A Walker Bay with a tube skirt might also be good if you remove the skirt before leaving it on the beach.

Lot of other factors would go into that decision for me...

- is the dink to be left on the mooring, or would you want to take it with you?
- What's the shore like? Rocky - shells - surf, sun, wind, tide range etc.
- What's the shore storage - long haul up the beach? Risk of theft?
- How many people do you need to haul? - if it's just you, can you manhandle it by yourself?
- What other things would you do with it... fishing? occasional motoring? (or sailing?)

A cheap, beat up aluminum rowboat sounds like a good choice for everything but the case where you want to take it with you.

#64 Publius Johnson

Publius Johnson

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 36,616 posts
  • Location:Punta Gorda FL
  • Interests:~~/)/)~~

Posted 08 January 2015 - 01:15 PM

The Cowmaran guy wants to build a lightweight SUP catamaran. Model pics:
 
cat-sup-hulls.jpg
 
cat-sup-top.jpg
 
The idea is to fish while standing up, even in places a Cowmaran can not go.

Much as I love the inspired insanity that appears to be in play here, I gotta ask:

Transoms on a paddle boat?

Ooh, just lash two canoes (or surfskis) into a catamaran!

I wonder how long before it gets a chair put on it and a trolling motor, and ..... you might as well have a livingston. (Kaboat?)

 

 

 

Two flip-down trolling motors would be my choice. And yes, a fighting chair. With an umbrella above and cooler beneath. Accessible without getting up, of course.



#65 Grey Dawn

Grey Dawn

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 370 posts
  • Location:Annapolis
  • Interests:Spouse, Sailing, Science, Skiing, Snorkeling, Scuba, Swirl, Sniff, Sip, Swallow, Savor

Posted 08 January 2015 - 01:39 PM

Grey Dawn, on 07 Jan 2015 - 11:26, said:
What would you buy if you wanted to leave a cheap, small dinghy/kayak/canoe/rowboat on a rocky beach for paddling 300 yards to a moored small sailboat?

It will have to stand up to sun, scrapes, and other abuse and be stable enough so you can easily board the sailboat and transfer supplies without too much danger of falling in the water. I'm thinking a used aluminum rowboat. A Walker Bay with a tube skirt might also be good if you remove the skirt before leaving it on the beach.

Lot of other factors would go into that decision for me...

- is the dink to be left on the mooring, or would you want to take it with you?
- What's the shore like? Rocky - shells - surf, sun, wind, tide range etc.
- What's the shore storage - long haul up the beach? Risk of theft?
- How many people do you need to haul? - if it's just you, can you manhandle it by yourself?
- What other things would you do with it... fishing? occasional motoring? (or sailing?)

A cheap, beat up aluminum rowboat sounds like a good choice for everything but the case where you want to take it with you.

 

This is for a lake boat. The dink will be left at the mooring. The shore is rocky but no tidal range. It needs to be hauled about 10 yards and there may be branches to be pushed aside. Small risk of theft but hopefully not worth it to the thief. I'd like to handle it myself maybe with a wheel. May paddle it for fun or put an outboard on but not the primary goal. Beat up aluminum is sounding better when I look at this list.



#66 Kirwan

Kirwan

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,212 posts
  • Location:San Diego
  • Interests:um... boats?

Posted 08 January 2015 - 04:26 PM

This thread is a great example of how what's best for one person or situation may not be best for another.

I grew up on inland lakes, and everybody had an aluminum rowboat. I spent many a happy hour trolling for bass in one, and acting like a raceboat with a 6hp motor. Had to lock the motor and move forward to get it to plane, then steer by shifting my weight. Some used them to row out to their 'big' sailboat.... a Buccaneer, I think. Aluminum canoes were everywhere too - much easier to paddle, but less stable, and 3 people is pretty much the max - but you can also do rivers.

My current boat is 28' - I got an inflatable; carries 3 great, but it's a hassle to haul, inflate and store (and patch). It's also way more than I need when I singlehand (which is often). Dominates the foredeck and makes people hate the V-berth. Even with 9.9 screaming horses, I can't get it to plane with more than just me. The halyard/crane trick is great to get the engine in the lazarette, but where to stow the gas is an issue. Rows like a brick.

I've also got 2 kayaks (SOT's); part due to learning, part to have company. Paddling around an anchorage in the quiet morning is one of my favorite things - I did the SF waterfront on New Year's day (pic above). But they wouldn't be the best way to haul groceries or people. While I generally prefer sit-ins for paddling and dryness, getting in from a boat is difficult for my old bones. Plus, I like the idea of an unsinkable thing to grab in an emergency - Heck, I almost used one as a fender when the engine quit and the tide was threatening to smash me into the base of the Bay Bridge.

My name is John, and I'm a member of Polynavicular Morbis Anonymous.

#67 Grey Dawn

Grey Dawn

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 370 posts
  • Location:Annapolis
  • Interests:Spouse, Sailing, Science, Skiing, Snorkeling, Scuba, Swirl, Sniff, Sip, Swallow, Savor

Posted 08 January 2015 - 04:40 PM

The admiral is showing increasing concern about the support fleet for the lake microcuiser before we ever discuss the bigger bay boat. PMA therapy may be needed soon.



#68 Snore

Snore

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 975 posts
  • Location:S FLA
  • Interests:Sailing,

Posted 09 January 2015 - 02:46 AM

Thanks for the feedback.
It is looking more and more like taking the hit and buying a used Klepper or Feathercraft is the solution for my situation.

 
Having owned a Feathercraft K-Light, and now owning a Oru folding kayak I would strongly recommend the latter for sailboat service.
 
It's 1/4 the price, performs as well if not better, and folds and unfolds much much faster.  There are no concerns with aluminum corrosion welding the frame together, and the Oru is probably more durable.
 
You can buy a new Oru for less than the cost of most used Feathercrafts.  Yes, it seems expensive for a big piece of coroplast, but it really is a better solution.

Thanks I was wondering about how the folding joints would hold up on that design. Based on your comments, I am guessing that they are holding up well.

#69 Alex W

Alex W

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,588 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Interests:sailboats, bikes, metalworking, diy

Posted 09 January 2015 - 03:37 PM

They are holding up fine on my Oru.  After seeing one in person I lost concern about that, Oru uses much beefier coroplast then I'd ever seen before and it seems like it will be quite durable.



#70 armido

armido

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 800 posts
  • Location:Varies
  • Interests:Sailing of course. Travel, adventure, change, meeting people everywhere I go and eating their food... Linux. Trying to break my Xoom tablet getting Android off and Linux on. Stirring the waters...

Posted 09 January 2015 - 05:23 PM

I examined one of the Orus (origami-put-together) on a local beach one day.  Would like to see how long one lasts at some dingy docks where most anchor outs use aluminum fishing boats, paddlle boats and oversized fiberglass dingies.  You haven't seen anything until you've seen oar locks attached with sheet metal screws protruding menacingly to the outside.  Plus, how'er you going to secure the Oru from theft at a dingy dock?  Considering the cost, they're just not there...

They are holding up fine on my Oru.  After seeing one in person I lost concern about that, Oru uses much beefier coroplast then I'd ever seen before and it seems like it will be quite durable.



#71 Asymptote

Asymptote

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,935 posts
  • Location:Seattle

Posted 12 January 2015 - 03:33 AM

Asymptote, on 07 Jan 2015 - 10:33, said:
So, what ever happened to the good old-fashioned actual dinghy?

I tow a 9' fiberglass dinghy that rows like a dream and can carry three adults, plus gear bags or groceries. All at once.
You can put on a trolling motor or row at a nice steady clip with actual oars for great distances.
You can go fishing in it and anchor it.
It tows like a dream sitting on the face of the second stern wave and has been towed in 30 knots without shipping any water.
It tucks up nicely in a mooring slip.
It pulls up nicely on to beaches.
You can literally jump into it from on deck, or more gracefully just step on board from the rail or a ladder.
You will never fall off of it.
It will sit nicely on the foredeck for long term storage or for a really lumpy passage. Two people or a halyard lift.

In other words, it surpasses all of the kayak, SUP options by almost any test.

Nothing wrong with actual hard dinghies, but that's not what this thread is about.
If you don't think a Kayak or SUP isn't the appropriate tender, don't get one, but why bitch when others do?

SUP's and Kayaks have a different 'fun factor' that may sway some decisions. Ever surfed your hard shell boat? Ever had to avoid landing because of breakers?
Storage is different for everyone. I'd lose the whole foredeck on my 28 footer to a hard dink, but an inflatable can be rolled and stowed. If I could store it under the boom, I'd reconsider (gonna need a bigger boat).
For that matter, I can stow a kayak or two inside for passages (or when away from the boat). Or even put both on the foredeck and still open the hatch for air.
Personally, I've never been big on towing a dinghy, it can get pretty rough where I sail... or maybe it's my old racer roots showing.

And finally, "Rows like a dream" means something different to everyone. I googled that phrase, and got long shells, whitehalls and tubby little boxes all on the same page.
Same goes for "light and easy to haul onto the boat". One person can easily ship a plastic kayak.

Guess that's why there are so many different types of boats.

Please identify the "bitching".



#72 Kirwan

Kirwan

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,212 posts
  • Location:San Diego
  • Interests:um... boats?

Posted 12 January 2015 - 03:41 PM

Well, tone is difficult to tell on a forum. You seemed to imply that a hardshell dinghy is such a superior choice that one would be foolish to pick any other option (or perhaps I inferred too much). This in a thread specifically about those other options.

You said "In other words, it surpasses all of the kayak, SUP options by almost any test."

A number of posts followed listing some of those tests;

- Can you wrestle a hard dinghy over the lifelines by yourself? (up or down)
- Can you roll it up and store it in a quarterberth?
- Can you stow it below decks for winterization or to prevent theft?
- Can it self rescue after a capsize or swamping? (to be fair, some can)
- For that matter, where DO you store one on a small (28') sailboat? A guest (my sister) refused to use the V-berth because the forward hatch was blocked when I had an inflatable on the foredeck. And access to the bow for anchoring was a pain.
- I once crewed a lovely 40' Cheoy Lee, but there were several times the captain refused to go ashore because the hard dinghy would get rolled in the surf.

I still say there's no one easy answer, and I reacted to the implication that there was.

#73 Kirwan

Kirwan

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,212 posts
  • Location:San Diego
  • Interests:um... boats?

Posted 12 January 2015 - 05:39 PM

Ok, I stewed on this a bit, and here's what I came up regarding the comparison of small boats as a tender to a Sailboat:

Hard Shell Dinghy
Advantages
High Load carrying capacity
Good Durability (Wood, fiberglass, Plastic)
Rows ok to well
Can be motorized (some can plane)
Some can be sailed
Very good stability
Excellent access from boat
Tows well

Disadvantages
Limited stowage options
Most are not self- rescuing after capsize or swamp
Difficult to enter from water
Loading / unloading from boat requires 2 people


Inflatable (with removable or roll-up floor)
Advantages
High Load carrying capacity
Deflated, stows well
Can be motorized, some can plane to 15 knots
Cannot be swamped
Easy to enter from water or boat
Excellent stability (nearly impossible to tip)

Disadvantages
Poor durability against sharp things
Some set-up time /effort required
Rows poorly

RIB (Inflatable with permanent bottom)
Advantages
High Load carrying capacity
Can take larger motor… 25 knots?
Cannot be swamped
Easy to enter from water or boat
Excellent stability
Tows well

Disadvantages
Less Durability than hard shell
Most difficult to stow (Davits only?)
Rows poorly

Sit on top kayak
Advantages
Easy entry from boat
Very good Durability (rotomold)
Nearly ‘unsinkable’
Easy to enter from water
Paddles well to excellent
Fun factor; surfing, etc.
Easy to load / unload by one person
Moderate stability
Relatively easy to stow; can go inside boat for passage / storage

Disadvantages
Wet ride
Limited load carrying
Usually single person only
Only human powered

Sit inside kayak
Advantages
May be more Stable than sot, lower seat
More dry than SOT
Paddles excellent
Stowage like SOT
Durability like SOT (rotomold / fiberglass)

Disadvantages
Difficult to enter from a boat
Most are not self-rescuing
Limited load carrying
Only human powered


Stand Up Paddleboard
Advantages
Very easy to stow (esp inflatable version)
Paddles well
Good exercise
Fun Factor

Disadvantages
Very low load carrying
Difficult to paddle upwind
Durability of inflatable?
Wet ride

Folding kayak
Advantages
Stows very small
More dry than SOT
Paddles well (but not as good as a rigid kayak)

Disadvantages
May be Difficult to enter from a boat
Durability similar to inflatable
Limited load carrying
Some assembly required
Only human powered


Canoe
Advantages
Easy entry from boat
Very good Durability (rotomold / fiberglass / aluminum)
Good load carrying (up to 3 people)
Moderate stability
Paddles well
Can be motorized (not planning)

Disadvantages
Not self rescuing
Difficult to stow
difficult to enter from water

 



#74 Alex W

Alex W

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,588 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Interests:sailboats, bikes, metalworking, diy

Posted 13 January 2015 - 07:17 AM

I examined one of the Orus (origami-put-together) on a local beach one day.  Would like to see how long one lasts at some dingy docks where most anchor outs use aluminum fishing boats, paddlle boats and oversized fiberglass dingies.  You haven't seen anything until you've seen oar locks attached with sheet metal screws protruding menacingly to the outside.  Plus, how'er you going to secure the Oru from theft at a dingy dock?  Considering the cost, they're just not there...

 
You think that a skin on frame kayak (Feathercraft) or a fiberglass kayak is going to hold up better under similar conditions?  I suggested the Oru when someone said that they thought a Feathercraft was a good choice for them.  
 
The Oru is priced similarly to rotomolded kayaks, most of which are also difficult or impossible to lock.  Around here (Puget Sound) you could always fold the Oru and stash it in the woods, which is hard to do with any other dinghy.  Dinghy theft is rare around here though too.

Kirwin's list is a good summary of the options.

#75 Publius Johnson

Publius Johnson

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 36,616 posts
  • Location:Punta Gorda FL
  • Interests:~~/)/)~~

Posted 13 January 2015 - 11:14 AM

...
Folding kayak
Advantages
Stows very small
More dry than SOT
Paddles well (but not as good as a rigid kayak)

Disadvantages
May be Difficult to enter from a boat
Durability similar to inflatable
Limited load carrying
Some assembly required
Only human powered...

 

Hmmm...

 

Not all that small, but you can fit it below on most boats.

Paddles better than some rigid boats.

 

Not too difficult to enter from the boat. Easier than my (extremely tippy) SOT rotomolded boat.

Carries a huge load, but speed starts to suffer quickly as the wetted area gets a lot wider when loaded up.

"Some assembly" required in a pretty darn large space. I managed it aboard a 24' deck boat once, but it wasn't easy.

Not only human powered...

 

faltsl.jpg

 

You missed a BIG disadvantage in foldables, at least for me. Disassembly. It's the reverse of assembly and no big deal right up until the part about the bags. I will not put the skin in its bag unless it is dry and free of salt and sand. In practice, that means I keep it assembled.



#76 A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake

A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,733 posts
  • Location:Virginia

Posted 13 January 2015 - 01:33 PM

...
Folding kayak
Advantages
Stows very small
More dry than SOT
Paddles well (but not as good as a rigid kayak)

Disadvantages
May be Difficult to enter from a boat
Durability similar to inflatable
Limited load carrying
Some assembly required
Only human powered...

 

Hmmm...

 

Not all that small, but you can fit it below on most boats.

Paddles better than some rigid boats.

 

Not too difficult to enter from the boat. Easier than my (extremely tippy) SOT rotomolded boat.

Carries a huge load, but speed starts to suffer quickly as the wetted area gets a lot wider when loaded up.

"Some assembly" required in a pretty darn large space. I managed it aboard a 24' deck boat once, but it wasn't easy.

Not only human powered...

 

faltsl.jpg

 

You missed a BIG disadvantage in foldables, at least for me. Disassembly. It's the reverse of assembly and no big deal right up until the part about the bags. I will not put the skin in its bag unless it is dry and free of salt and sand. In practice, that means I keep it assembled.

 

Tom - how is the cross beam/mast-step assembly secured to the boat? 



#77 armido

armido

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 800 posts
  • Location:Varies
  • Interests:Sailing of course. Travel, adventure, change, meeting people everywhere I go and eating their food... Linux. Trying to break my Xoom tablet getting Android off and Linux on. Stirring the waters...

Posted 13 January 2015 - 02:34 PM

Take a look at the moulded in handhold in the Kiwi kayak.  A cable, chain and maybe even a New York Standard U-lock can be used to secure against theft.  You can find this kayak used for between $100 and $250 USD.  New around $600.  I was told by the Oru owner they cost around $1,200.00.  I witheld my laughter at the prospect.  And no, I would never leave my Advaned Designs Frame inflatable anywhere out of sight or at a dingy dock..  But then I suppose I could deflate, roll up and stash in the bushes too.  Notice I said I use it two, maybe three times a year to tow or be towed moving stuff and especially my bike ashore.  It's also there if I have someone aboard wanting to come and go independent of me.  But, if you ask B.J., he'll tell you I smell too bad to attract crew anyway... :D 

My solution for the last 23 years has been a combination of kayaks.  The primary is a Kiwi brand Lobo kayak, 9.2' in length.  This kayak has a 'moulded in' handle that doesn't take much explaining as to the benefits.  It fits snugly alongside the doghouse inside the safety netting.

 

attachicon.giftmp_2291-1stdirect_2268_2106178299200331.jpeg

 

The second kayak, an inflatable, is from Advanced Designs.

 

attachicon.giftmp_2291-AdvancedFrame-Pg_2_22-1261081783.jpg

 

Most things can be moved between the boat and shore, whether a bicycle or provisions for a long passage, by towing one behind the other.  The lobo will hold more groceries behind the removable seat back than I can carry in my backpack, and the inflatable, a bike and more of whatever I have to move at the moment. 

 

The A.D. inflates quickly for use and deflates easily for storage in the supplied storage bag. 

 

I tried a Bombard inflatable early in my experience.  Heavy, bulky and although it had little use the floor separated from the bow tubing while stored in the aft cabin.  A bitch to put together, inflate, paddle and when deflated, stow.  So, moved to kayaks and never looked back. 

 

One other great advantage in using a kayak is squeezing into a crowded dingy dock.  Also easy to lift and carry elsewhere along a dock, or to a slip if your blocked inside by behemouth inflatables and aluminum fishing boats used as dingies...

 

 

I examined one of the Orus (origami-put-together) on a local beach one day.  Would like to see how long one lasts at some dingy docks where most anchor outs use aluminum fishing boats, paddlle boats and oversized fiberglass dingies.  You haven't seen anything until you've seen oar locks attached with sheet metal screws protruding menacingly to the outside.  Plus, how'er you going to secure the Oru from theft at a dingy dock?  Considering the cost, they're just not there...

 
You think that a skin on frame kayak (Feathercraft) or a fiberglass kayak is going to hold up better under similar conditions?  I suggested the Oru when someone said that they thought a Feathercraft was a good choice for them.  
 
The Oru is priced similarly to rotomolded kayaks, most of which are also difficult or impossible to lock.  Around here (Puget Sound) you could always fold the Oru and stash it in the woods, which is hard to do with any other dinghy.  Dinghy theft is rare around here though too.

Kirwin's list is a good summary of the options.


#78 Publius Johnson

Publius Johnson

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 36,616 posts
  • Location:Punta Gorda FL
  • Interests:~~/)/)~~

Posted 13 January 2015 - 03:28 PM

 

...
Folding kayak
Advantages
Stows very small
More dry than SOT
Paddles well (but not as good as a rigid kayak)

Disadvantages
May be Difficult to enter from a boat
Durability similar to inflatable
Limited load carrying
Some assembly required
Only human powered...

 

Hmmm...

 

Not all that small, but you can fit it below on most boats.

Paddles better than some rigid boats.

 

Not too difficult to enter from the boat. Easier than my (extremely tippy) SOT rotomolded boat.

Carries a huge load, but speed starts to suffer quickly as the wetted area gets a lot wider when loaded up.

"Some assembly" required in a pretty darn large space. I managed it aboard a 24' deck boat once, but it wasn't easy.

Not only human powered...

 

faltsl.jpg

 

You missed a BIG disadvantage in foldables, at least for me. Disassembly. It's the reverse of assembly and no big deal right up until the part about the bags. I will not put the skin in its bag unless it is dry and free of salt and sand. In practice, that means I keep it assembled.

 

Tom - how is the cross beam/mast-step assembly secured to the boat? 

 

The mast is held by a metal fitting that is riveted to the two boards that form the cockpit coaming. At the base, it just sits in a wooden block. The crosspiece holding the leeboards clamps onto those same cockpit coaming boards.



#79 Kirwan

Kirwan

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,212 posts
  • Location:San Diego
  • Interests:um... boats?

Posted 13 January 2015 - 04:14 PM

The list was meant as a starting point, my opinions as I see them; I've never paddled (or assembled) a folding kayak. I've also never seen anyone actually use a canoe as a tender, that was kinda thrown in for completeness (and humor)... and cause I've always had a soft spot for them; got my Boy Scout 50 mile patch in a canoe.

There are also no clear demarcations; some sit-in kayaks are slugs, and some inflatables (Kaboat?) row reasonably well. And some boats sort of cross over boundaries; the Hobie Adventure Island comes to mind.

And it's about how none of the choices is perfect. But if you're lucky, you find the solution that. while not perfect, is the best choice for a particular situation. But what do I know? I've got 2 kayaks and an inflatable (and OB) stowed in my 28 footer.

#80 Publius Johnson

Publius Johnson

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 36,616 posts
  • Location:Punta Gorda FL
  • Interests:~~/)/)~~

Posted 13 January 2015 - 11:58 PM

Fuel for the fire: Expandacraft

 

Their website isn't great, better to follow them on Facebook.

 

image1.jpeg

 

 

image2.jpeg

 

That's a little one. They make a bigger one, a trimaran version, and a trimaran sailboat too. They also made a trimaran using a canoe as vaka.

 

Lost of pics here:

 

https://www.flickr.c...157629778594659



#81 Dilligaf0220

Dilligaf0220

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 862 posts
  • Location:Not the Caribbean

Posted 14 January 2015 - 01:38 AM

The list was meant as a starting point, my opinions as I see them; I've never paddled (or assembled) a folding kayak. I've also never seen anyone actually use a canoe as a tender, that was kinda thrown in for completeness (and humor)... and cause I've always had a soft spot for them; got my Boy Scout 50 mile patch in a canoe...


Right, okay one disclaimer, I am a Canadian canoe snob. I have paddled, pedalled, and flogged just about every human powered water vehicle that I could get my hands on. And I still think that a Canadian style canoe is the perfect balance between paddlability, load carrying, and sea worthiness. These things were designed over millenia to shoot Northern Canadian whitewater rivers, with a 100:1 load. If it can bust through a 10' set standing wave train 100 miles from the nearest paved road, it can land on a beach. And it will out surf that plastic SOT next to you.

The difference between a canoe or kayak is skill. Its the difference between an automatic or manual transmission.

Most kayak paddlers drive an auto slush box. I like the benefits of a manual.

#82 glowmaster

glowmaster

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 576 posts
  • Location:Cape Cod MA
  • Interests:Trimarans, Windsurfing, SUP.
    The ultimate trifecta.

Posted 14 January 2015 - 02:24 AM

I sup 100s of miles a year, but it is not a good way to get out to the mooring on GlowBoat.  I use a walker bay plastic dinghy for that.

 

Maybe an inflatable, but one person at a time doesn't work.

 

From the Osterville 3Bays race in September from the bridge.

 

Attached File  3bays2cropped.jpg   558.68KB   3 downloads

 

Attached File  paddlehell.jpg   62.93KB   3 downloads

 

 

 



#83 miscut jib

miscut jib

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,336 posts

Posted 14 January 2015 - 02:59 AM

I witheld my laughter at the prospect.

perhaps its me, or just my monitor, but the REI photos of the ORU are hilarious to me. It's an 80s minimalism gag

 

14694f2a-0817-410f-bb1d-fd0ff340316c.jpg


$1200 for the outline of a kayak.

 

still curious about the realities of all of these. Much attraction.



#84 Scarecrow

Scarecrow

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,276 posts
  • Location:Melbourne, Aus

Posted 14 January 2015 - 04:19 AM

Or get lazy and buy one of these:

 



#85 Kirwan

Kirwan

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,212 posts
  • Location:San Diego
  • Interests:um... boats?

Posted 14 January 2015 - 03:53 PM

'Canadian Canoe' always brings this image to mind:

canadiannavy.jpg

Sorry, couldn't resist the joke - as mentioned I love canoes, almost worked as a guide at a canoe base. Come to think of it, I've owned most of the options, and operated the rest. Except folding boats like that quickboat. I wonder what it's like to assemble one solo on the uneven and deck of a sailboat? Give it points for easy stowage though.

#86 Norse Horse

Norse Horse

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,136 posts
  • Location:Squamish, BC Canada
  • Interests:R2AK 2016
    Team Squamish

Posted 16 January 2015 - 03:03 PM

'Canadian Canoe' always brings this image to mind:

canadiannavy.jpg

Sorry, couldn't resist the joke - as mentioned I love canoes, almost worked as a guide at a canoe base. Come to think of it, I've owned most of the options, and operated the rest. Except folding boats like that quickboat. I wonder what it's like to assemble one solo on the uneven and deck of a sailboat? Give it points for easy stowage though.

Looks like Steven Harper :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

This SUP caught my eye, I have never seen a wood one yet. It is popular to SUP in Howe Sound from Porteau to Squamish. I watch the Worlds Surfskiers last summer from my boat on that course.

http://portland.crai...4845653191.html

Attached Files



#87 toddster

toddster

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,013 posts
  • Location:The Gorge

Posted 16 January 2015 - 09:25 PM

That thing has been on craigslist for years now.  Maybe he actually builds lots of them?  If that last pic panned over just a little bit, you'd see my boat!



#88 Owen

Owen

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,684 posts
  • Location:Camarillo

Posted 13 May 2015 - 04:50 PM

Picked up this 'nu-kanu vision paddle-ski' yesterday for a few bills.  It'd been advertised as a kayak and the CL photos hadn't shown how thin it is .    This afternoon I'll see if it floats with me on it.  Should be fun if just a leeeeetle tippy.  

photo%204.jpg?1431535428994&143153543043

photo%205.jpg?1431535428994&143153543043



#89 Amati

Amati

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,206 posts
  • Location:Yes!
  • Interests:if 1 does not = 1, then....?

Posted 14 May 2015 - 04:47 AM

Under the rubric of 'I'll probably never do it', it seems to me that an inflatable proa would fill almost all the above roles.

 

Do it in a general way like the catapult catamaran- easy to store below deck, light, stiff, wishbone shaped arm out to the small hull, put a net in that triangle to haul stuff, paddle it sitting, standing, or prone by hand, 12" beam hull, 16-18' LOA, 6' aka (or is it ama?)  Put a sail on it, maybe make it a tacking proa so it doesn't confuse western traditionalists, and more sitting room, but a pacific proa would rock.  Shunting! Aaaack!

 

http://www.catapultcats.com



#90 Mithrandir

Mithrandir

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts

Posted 14 May 2015 - 10:04 PM

I have a C&C 35 as well as a Klepper Aerius Double. I thought what a magic combination. The pros are it is a great stable kayak for kayaking the con is you have to take it apart every time you want to sail. It is too big to sit comfortably on the fore deck. If you had davits it might hang off the stern but it is 17' wide. I managed to stuff it in the lazarette and it went in and disappeared surprisingly well. It was a major PITA putting it together on the deck - it did not go well and took over an hour to do it. Once that was done I rigged up the spinnaker pole to pick it up and drop it over the side as well as retrieving it - that worked out very well. Once in the water it was very easy to get in and out of - very stable kayak.

 

The next time I will put the kayak in a dingy and row to shore and put the kayak together on the hard, that would be faster.

 

Cheers,

Bill

 



#91 monsoon

monsoon

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 671 posts
  • Location:Naragansett Bay

Posted 19 May 2015 - 10:57 PM

We have an inflatable kayak (from Innova) that we've been very happy with.  Paddles surprisingly well. Stores in the head underway.  I won't have a kayak on deck underway.



#92 Alex W

Alex W

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,588 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Interests:sailboats, bikes, metalworking, diy

Posted 20 May 2015 - 03:05 PM

The Oru folding kayak is very easy to assemble on deck on my 28' boat.  I wish it packed down a little bit smaller, it's a tight squeeze through the door on my laz.  I normally store it under the boom forward, but then it sticks up a little bit high.  I'd like to be able to carry two of them, but don't think that they'd fit very well on my smaller boat.  On a 35' boat it wouldn't be a problem.

 

I used to own a Feathercraft K-Light (their fastest folding kayak) and think I could unpack and repack the Oru at least 10 times in the time that it would take to assemble the Feathercraft once.  The paddling experience is similar on both boats and is much better than the inflatables that I've used.

 

I'm disappointed that the new Oru Coast (a 16' model, compared to the original 12' model) is still extremely beamy at 25", but that will add a lot of stability when climbing in from the deck of a sailboat.



#93 Publius Johnson

Publius Johnson

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 36,616 posts
  • Location:Punta Gorda FL
  • Interests:~~/)/)~~

Posted 21 May 2015 - 10:18 AM

I once assembled my Klepper on board a pretty large deck boat.

 

After that, I decided not to try to assemble it on any more boats.



#94 A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake

A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,733 posts
  • Location:Virginia

Posted 21 May 2015 - 01:04 PM

I understand the appeal of stowability, but, for ready access, price, sturdiness and simplicity, wouldn't a 10' SOT satisfy most of the needs?  It weighs about 40lbs, is almost indestructible, can't sink, and will carry 250lbs. 



#95 Py26129

Py26129

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,821 posts
  • Location:Montreal
  • Interests:Sailing, the missus and the kids. Not in that order .......maybe!

Posted 21 May 2015 - 02:47 PM

We have been carrying a SOT for years now.  Aside from it's intended use a kayak, it's been used as a swim platform  for the kids and has provided more entertainment than most other toys on the boat.  When not in the water it lives on deck, lashed to the shrouds and there is still enough room to get around it quite easily.  In terms of bang for the buck, it's easily the best money spent.

Attached File  DSC_3190.jpg   90.13KB   0 downloads



#96 Alex W

Alex W

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,588 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Interests:sailboats, bikes, metalworking, diy

Posted 21 May 2015 - 03:05 PM

I don't consider a SoT stable and safe enough for cold water use (like the Salish Sea).  The wide beam makes them unstable in rough water, and the lack of knee bracing doesn't make them paddle all that well either.  

 

Plus a 10' SoT doesn't really fit anywhere on a 28' boat without adding a lot of windage.  The Oru kayak does fit (though not as easily as I'd like) and folds/unfolds in about 5 minutes so it's a better compromise for me.



#97 leadminer

leadminer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 134 posts
  • Location:Yolanda

Posted 21 May 2015 - 03:18 PM

How about a rowboat you can sail? Or, a sailboat you can row?

Attached Files



#98 jewing

jewing

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 386 posts
  • Location:Somewhere between Charleston, Boston and LIS
  • Interests:If you're on this site, probably not that much different than yours

Posted 04 January 2016 - 04:09 PM

Resurrecting this thread:

 

The missus offered me the inflatable SUP of my choice for Christmas.  Those of you with SUPs on your cruising boats - which would you recommend?  My purposes would simply be going for morning and evening paddles around East coast / New England mooring fields and harbors, not anything too extreme.  It would not be used as a dinghy substitute.

 

I have tried a JOBE, which was fine if a bit bulky, and an outfitter in SC that I like recommended Naish as the top of the line. 

 

Any thoughts here?  Anything I should look for or avoid?  I am thinking the bungees make sense, if for no other reason than to store a PFD on the board.



#99 Owen

Owen

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,684 posts
  • Location:Camarillo

Posted 04 January 2016 - 04:59 PM

Picked up this 'nu-kanu vision paddle-ski' yesterday for a few bills.  It'd been advertised as a kayak and the CL photos hadn't shown how thin it is .    This afternoon I'll see if it floats with me on it.  Should be fun if just a leeeeetle tippy.  

photo%204.jpg?1431535428994&143153543043

photo%205.jpg?1431535428994&143153543043

057.jpg?1451924987429&1451924990996&1451I was wondering if this thread would come back.  That boat, despite being wafer-thin, paddles excellently with my 220 pounds of rippling muscle.  The same basic shape is now produced as far as I can tell, as a "malibu express".   I think they retail for 7 or so--- but I haven't seen one at WM or other retailers and haven't tried too hard to talk to a dealer to find out about availability.  That's too bad because EVERYONE needs to buy one so the used market comes back into existence.    It's got internal storage and tiedowns on top.  It's way lighter than a cobra single.  It's narrow.  It surfs. It would store along lifelines same as an SUP and way better than a cobra type.   I imagine the reason they don't sell at retailers is because they look less forgiving than they are.  I got lucky as hell stumbling onto this one and am always looking for another.  

 

The 8 footer 200 buck boats are ok for kids and tolerable for adults but only in a pinch.  



#100 steele

steele

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 957 posts
  • Location:Land of the locks

Posted 04 January 2016 - 05:06 PM

Resurrecting this thread:

 

The missus offered me the inflatable SUP of my choice for Christmas.  Those of you with SUPs on your cruising boats - which would you recommend?  My purposes would simply be going for morning and evening paddles around East coast / New England mooring fields and harbors, not anything too extreme.  It would not be used as a dinghy substitute.

 

I have tried a JOBE, which was fine if a bit bulky, and an outfitter in SC that I like recommended Naish as the top of the line. 

 

Any thoughts here?  Anything I should look for or avoid?  I am thinking the bungees make sense, if for no other reason than to store a PFD on the board.

Last year I got a NRS inflatable and have been happy with it.  I would consider it a mid level one, and the company has a long history of good service and lots of inflatable experience.  The kit it came with (pump, backpack, multiple fins) has held up well too,  We use it just as you plan.  As a bonus I got an e-mail from them just today about a sale on all their paddle boards.  We have the Earl.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users