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#1 Fuller

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:43 AM

This has being spoken about now for the past few years. Is it time to set this up and what are the benefits to members.

I can see some great positives about this, OMR and insurance matters for 2 examples. What do you all think?

 

Is it worth floating this idea at the Nationals in Airlie this year?

 

Thoughts please....... 



#2 slick

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 11:42 AM

This has being spoken about now for the past few years. Is it time to set this up and what are the benefits to members.
I can see some great positives about this, OMR and insurance matters for 2 examples. What do you all think?
 
Is it worth floating this idea at the Nationals in Airlie this year?
 
Thoughts please....... 



Good to see you are putting yourself up to run this Fuller after the most excellent job you did as commodore of the MYCV well done I say

#3 rob d

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:17 PM

I would like to think this is a bit like CAMS (Confederation of Australian Motorsport) v MA (Motorcycling Australia) in Motorsport. If what you are paying for is not a great service, find or in this case, start another one. I don't know how this would work with established clubs and events but bikes and cars do sometimes share events. There is an opportunity to break away from YA (YachtingAustralia) if this got up. No need to bitch about being the poor cousin paying for more than our share. I think that involving off the beach multihulls would be a great start and open the door to significant numbers. As long as you have the liability covered for an event the body you are affiliated with should not count. There are a few established multi clubs around in different states, both OTB and bigger. Could this be worth a combined discussion? What do people think?



Now someone who knows how this really works can set me straight.

#4 honestjohn

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 01:05 PM

This has being spoken about now for the past few years. Is it time to set this up and what are the benefits to members.

I can see some great positives about this, OMR and insurance matters for 2 examples. What do you all think?

 

Is it worth floating this idea at the Nationals in Airlie this year?

 

Thoughts please....... 

I'll support it, wont be at Airlie unfortunately,having the same insurance issues as everyone else, for my Farrier SuperTramp.

I think we need to clarify ,looking at recent post. I'm assuming we are not talking OTB classes,but correct me i f required. 



#5 cabsav

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 09:35 PM

Off the beach cats seem to be missing the necessary chip on their shoulder.  They probably wouldn't be interested.

 

I didn't read Fuller's proposal as wanting to diverge from YA.  Just to have a national governing body for OMR Multihulls.



#6 Cutter

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 10:04 PM

From the outside looks like its working for the Sports Boats they only formed ABSA five or so years ago?



#7 Fuller

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 11:49 PM

This has being spoken about now for the past few years. Is it time to set this up and what are the benefits to members.
I can see some great positives about this, OMR and insurance matters for 2 examples. What do you all think?
 
Is it worth floating this idea at the Nationals in Airlie this year?
 
Thoughts please....... 



Good to see you are putting yourself up to run this Fuller after the most excellent job you did as commodore of the MYCV well done I say

Well thank you Slick for your support, it seems  the major problem we are going to have is to find  someone to take control and push it. With my busy work schedule at the moment I might find it a little hard, however happy to be a committee member for the southern states.

Someone like Plywood would be perfect, has a big mouth for promotion and nearly retired....



#8 Peter Hackett

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 09:34 AM

Ah Fuller, if only you could stay positive towards anyone or anything for an entire sentence, we could get somewhere together. 



#9 Chris 249

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 10:34 AM

No need to bitch about being the poor cousin paying for more than our share. 

 

Windsurfers have a multi-class association that arranges its own insurance and it works well generally. We also get a united voice when dealing with people like NSW Maritime - YA and YANSW agreed with Maritime when they tried to put through a change in PFD rules that would have been unworkable and dangerous but a submission to Maritime by Windsurfer One Designs and Windsurfing NSW got the change dropped. In that case, a specialist association was vital.

 

On the other hand we minority parts of the sport like windsurfers and cruiser/racer multis may have to be realistic about the fact that we ARE small minorities. There are 60,000 members of YA clubs - how many of them sail cruiser/racer multis?  By far the most popular section of the sport in Oz is the guys sailing inshore monohull cruiser/racers on arbitrary handicap, and they probably get far less attention from YA, in comparison with their numbers, than anyone else.



#10 Fuller

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:18 AM

No need to bitch about being the poor cousin paying for more than our share. 

 

Windsurfers have a multi-class association that arranges its own insurance and it works well generally. We also get a united voice when dealing with people like NSW Maritime - YA and YANSW agreed with Maritime when they tried to put through a change in PFD rules that would have been unworkable and dangerous but a submission to Maritime by Windsurfer One Designs and Windsurfing NSW got the change dropped. In that case, a specialist association was vital.

 

On the other hand we minority parts of the sport like windsurfers and cruiser/racer multis may have to be realistic about the fact that we ARE small minorities. There are 60,000 members of YA clubs - how many of them sail cruiser/racer multis?  By far the most popular section of the sport in Oz is the guys sailing inshore monohull cruiser/racers on arbitrary handicap, and they probably get far less attention from YA, in comparison with their numbers, than anyone else.

Interesting, have Windsurfers  started their own insurance or have they arranged a group policy with a insurance company? If so, do you know who with?



#11 Fuller

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:20 AM

Ah Fuller, if only you could stay positive towards anyone or anything for an entire sentence, we could get somewhere together. 

No need to worry Plywood, you don't qualify anymore, you need to be a boat owner? A little birdie told me the caravan has gone to god?



#12 ؏ΩӁقڝӃڜ Җ

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 08:33 PM

I would like to think this is a bit like CAMS (Confederation of Australian Motorsport) v MA (Motorcycling Australia) in Motorsport. If what you are paying for is not a great service, find or in this case, start another one. I don't know how this would work with established clubs and events but bikes and cars do sometimes share events. There is an opportunity to break away from YA (YachtingAustralia) if this got up. No need to bitch about being the poor cousin paying for more than our share. I think that involving off the beach multihulls would be a great start and open the door to significant numbers. As long as you have the liability covered for an event the body you are affiliated with should not count. There are a few established multi clubs around in different states, both OTB and bigger. Could this be worth a combined discussion? What do people think?



Now someone who knows how this really works can set me straight.

You obviously have NO idea of what a "class association" is. 

YA do not run the affairs of any class associations - ever. That is not their job or authority.

Some classes of multihulls do have an association. That association will organize Nationals, measuring, sail numbers etc.  

Multihulls need their own class association. Time to set one up to run multi affairs instead of bitching because nobody else is doing it for you. 



#13 rob d

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:50 PM

I have been in a lot over the years but all have been class associations, I may have worded the response very poorly- I did not view "Multihulls" as a class and was thinking a little bit bigger, further outside the square. I see class associations as not only one design but also based on a rule set like I14, F18, NZ8.5 and many others.  I suppose OMR could be a "class" but I thought it might be bigger than that. Not all multis are under OMR and an association with bigger numbers is a stronger one in my opinion. That is why I suggested including otb multis. The response to the Windsurfers Association is encouraging. The sports boat association might be similar to an OMR one? From the outside it would be unfair to say how well it works.

 

As I said, I expect there is a lot to this and I do not claim to have answers, just lots of annoying questions and "What about...'s".  I think Chris 249's comments were very helpful and informative. 

 

I also agree Plywoodboy would be heard! I guess he now might even be a sort of industry rep? How would an ideal representative panel look? If just OMR, there are big to little, fast to slowish and everything in between. Multihulls in general are a bigger number. Fast and big Team Australia, fast -don't want to select anyone in particular so go by results and OMR- anyway, who makes up an effective panel? Then will they want/have time to do it? Like I said, lots of questions, hopefully use full, but holding back on nominating anyone, except Plywoodboy. He has my vote.



#14 Chris 249

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 02:20 AM

I think the windsurfing policy is through "Sportscover Syndicate 3334 at Lloyd's". We have about 720 insured members nationally as I understand it. Each club, fleet or class association pays $150 for membership of the national/state association and then pass $20 per member to the national association to cover the insurance.

 

Insurance is third party only and only when taking part in association events, but it's an example of something reasonably similar that works. We have a very, very, very low claims history which helps keep costs very low.

 

The classes, clubs and fleets that form the Aust Windsurfing Ass vary from dinghy clubs that have racing fleets of longboards, bodies that are basically class associations running state-wide travellers series, wavesailing associations that do the same, and social-sailing groups. The public liability risks, though very low, could vary between disciplines about as much as the various types of multi racing do.

 

The cover does not include competitor v competitor cover. I only know of one incident in which a competitor injured another competitor, and that was when a national champ stuffed up a bearaway and put 10 stitches in a starboard tacker's leg....the guy on port was married to the starboard tacker so she didn't sue him and lack of insurance didn't come into the picture.

 

At a higher level most windsurfing associations are members of the International Windsurfing Association. The reason I mention this is that sometimes people speak as if all their problems come from the YA or ISAF's supposedly biased viewpoint. From personal experience, I know that being part of a multi-class association is useful but can still be very political and you actually get more perspective and better respect fot the problems YA and ISAF face when you find out how hard it is to get the various facets that are seen even within one discipline of our sport working together.  



#15 Fuller

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 01:54 PM

This has being spoken about now for the past few years. Is it time to set this up and what are the benefits to members.

I can see some great positives about this, OMR and insurance matters for 2 examples. What do you all think?

 

Is it worth floating this idea at the Nationals in Airlie this year?

 

Thoughts please....... 

607 views and 13 post. Thought there would be more interest about this topic. I guess that answers the question in the short term and we wont have to have one of those shit meetings at the Nationals again. 



#16 OzScoutSailor

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 05:45 AM

Is there any reason why you aren't lobbying YA to establish a sub committie similar to the National Trailable Yachts and Sportsboat Policy Committee or Offshore Keelboat Policy Committee?

 

As for meetings, I leave you this from Grosse Pointe Blank:

 

Martin Blank: This union, there's gonna be meetings?

Mr. Grocer: Of course!

Martin Blank: No meetings.

[They continue shooting]



#17 ؏ΩӁقڝӃڜ Җ

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 05:58 AM

Is there any reason why you aren't lobbying YA to establish a sub committie similar to the National Trailable Yachts and Sportsboat Policy Committee or Offshore Keelboat Policy Committee?

 

As for meetings, I leave you this from Grosse Pointe Blank:

 

Martin Blank: This union, there's gonna be meetings?

Mr. Grocer: Of course!

Martin Blank: No meetings.

[They continue shooting]

 

It has to start with people who sail the boats. Do not rely on non multihull people to do it for you. If you've only got 13 people interested - then that's a start. It will grow from there - or die if nobody is interested. But it does seem that you cannot even agree on establishing an association to begin with.



#18 Fuller

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 11:15 PM


Is there any reason why you aren't lobbying YA to establish a sub committie similar to the National Trailable Yachts and Sportsboat Policy Committee or Offshore Keelboat Policy Committee?

 

As for meetings, I leave you this from Grosse Pointe Blank:

 

Martin Blank: This union, there's gonna be meetings?

Mr. Grocer: Of course!

Martin Blank: No meetings.

[They continue shooting]

 

It has to start with people who sail the boats. Do not rely on non multihull people to do it for you. If you've only got 13 people interested - then that's a start. It will grow from there - or die if nobody is interested. But it does seem that you cannot even agree on establishing an association to begin with.

Well that was the whole reason for the thread. See how many people are interested...I thought more people would of showed interest.



#19 Fuller

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 11:00 AM

 


Is there any reason why you aren't lobbying YA to establish a sub committie similar to the National Trailable Yachts and Sportsboat Policy Committee or Offshore Keelboat Policy Committee?

 

As for meetings, I leave you this from Grosse Pointe Blank:

 

Martin Blank: This union, there's gonna be meetings?

Mr. Grocer: Of course!

Martin Blank: No meetings.

[They continue shooting]

 

It has to start with people who sail the boats. Do not rely on non multihull people to do it for you. If you've only got 13 people interested - then that's a start. It will grow from there - or die if nobody is interested. But it does seem that you cannot even agree on establishing an association to begin with.

Well that was the whole reason for the thread. See how many people are interested...I thought more people would of showed interest.

Auscat you're interested aren't you?



#20 auscat

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 10:04 PM

Some kind of national body would certainly make organising the nationals a lot easier.

#21 Fuller

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:20 AM

Some kind of national body would certainly make organising the nationals a lot easier.

Well it might be time we start it. I believe Plywoodboy has a bit of time on his hands now. Perfect for the Pres spot. I'm happy to be on the committee, what about you and anyone else willing to put there hands up?



#22 green boat

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 09:28 AM

Sailing anarchy is not the place to rally the troops

If you are not part of the Multihull clubs official communication, dont bother

A lot of hard working officials dont have time to even consider a public rant here

you are living up to your name " full of .... "



#23 Fuller

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:58 AM

Sailing anarchy is not the place to rally the troops

If you are not part of the Multihull clubs official communication, dont bother

A lot of hard working officials dont have time to even consider a public rant here

you are living up to your name " full of .... "

Well at least we have got it started.. And what is the "Multihull clubs official communication" More than you have done?



#24 NUDDY

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 03:44 PM

This has being spoken about now for the past few years. Is it time to set this up and what are the benefits to members.
I can see some great positives about this, OMR and insurance matters for 2 examples. What do you all think?
 
Is it worth floating this idea at the Nationals in Airlie this year?
 
Thoughts please....... 


Just to bring this thread up to the top of the list.
I have a few ideas and suggestions which I will discuss tomorrow ( later today)?

#25 Indian Chief

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 10:36 PM

Anyone understand the process to form a national association for non off the beach Multihulls? i believe we need it just to administer national events and ratings as a starter.



#26 bush sailer

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 10:51 PM

I assume that you need to form a committee of like minded people who have some spare time to start with. I was thinking guys like Geoff Cruse Plywood Phil Day, I am not suggesting you guys have plenty of spare time just that you know the industry. (plus similar from southern states) etc.
Then you need to raise some money from multihull sailors such as a levee, probably use the MYCQ as the framework for the national organisation, I guess it is the same as starting up a club.
Airlie would be the place to sit down and discuss it.

#27 NUDDY

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 02:47 AM

Sailing anarchy is not the place to rally the troops

If you are not part of the Multihull clubs official communication, dont bother

A lot of hard working officials dont have time to even consider a public rant here

you are living up to your name " full of .... "

Well at least we have got it started.. And what is the "Multihull clubs official communication" More than you have done?

As far as I know there is no 'Multihull Clubs Official Communication'. What we have as far as a National Association is concerned is total anarchy so it seems to me that Multihull Anarchy would be the ideal place to start. We should certainly use any means of communication we can to 'rally the troops'.

The way I see it none of us have 'spare time'. The people mentioned I know are very busy. What it needs is for some of us to make time if we think it is important enough. I think it is important enough and I am prepared to make time to do some of it. I cant do it all and I dont want to be the Figurehead (I dont think anyone would want me as figurehead anyway). I am prepared to be the co-ordinator, to get the ball rolling. I will have a think about it and post shortly with my ideas for discussion, here on Multihull Anarchy for a start.



#28 Indian Chief

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 03:37 AM

 

Sailing anarchy is not the place to rally the troops

If you are not part of the Multihull clubs official communication, dont bother

A lot of hard working officials dont have time to even consider a public rant here

you are living up to your name " full of .... "

Well at least we have got it started.. And what is the "Multihull clubs official communication" More than you have done?

As far as I know there is no 'Multihull Clubs Official Communication'. What we have as far as a National Association is concerned is total anarchy so it seems to me that Multihull Anarchy would be the ideal place to start. We should certainly use any means of communication we can to 'rally the troops'.

The way I see it none of us have 'spare time'. The people mentioned I know are very busy. What it needs is for some of us to make time if we think it is important enough. I think it is important enough and I am prepared to make time to do some of it. I cant do it all and I dont want to be the Figurehead (I dont think anyone would want me as figurehead anyway). I am prepared to be the co-ordinator, to get the ball rolling. I will have a think about it and post shortly with my ideas for discussion, here on Multihull Anarchy for a start.

Great lets got on with it, it gets discussed at every Nationals and i cant sit through another discussion on this topic. "JUST DO IT" i'll be in it to help out. what about you Fuller, you started this. 



#29 Fuller

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:47 AM

 

 

Sailing anarchy is not the place to rally the troops

If you are not part of the Multihull clubs official communication, dont bother

A lot of hard working officials dont have time to even consider a public rant here

you are living up to your name " full of .... "

Well at least we have got it started.. And what is the "Multihull clubs official communication" More than you have done?

As far as I know there is no 'Multihull Clubs Official Communication'. What we have as far as a National Association is concerned is total anarchy so it seems to me that Multihull Anarchy would be the ideal place to start. We should certainly use any means of communication we can to 'rally the troops'.

The way I see it none of us have 'spare time'. The people mentioned I know are very busy. What it needs is for some of us to make time if we think it is important enough. I think it is important enough and I am prepared to make time to do some of it. I cant do it all and I dont want to be the Figurehead (I dont think anyone would want me as figurehead anyway). I am prepared to be the co-ordinator, to get the ball rolling. I will have a think about it and post shortly with my ideas for discussion, here on Multihull Anarchy for a start.

Great lets got on with it, it gets discussed at every Nationals and i cant sit through another discussion on this topic. "JUST DO IT" i'll be in it to help out. what about you Fuller, you started this. 

Of cause I'm in for Victoria and reckon I have someone for SA. Hope this means I don't have to listen to your shit though? You should be called Fuller2? I saw your jibe on the other thread......Lock Crowther watch out!!!



#30 NUDDY

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 03:35 PM

OK some quick thoughts to get started:

How about we call it Multihull Racing Australia, described as a group of multihull owners and enthusiasts in Australia formed to promote racing of trailable and non-trailable multihull yachts as distinct from 'off the beach cats'. Multihull owners or part owners qualify to be full members with voting rights. Multihull racing enthusiasts may be associate members and do not have voting rights. A full member may assign proxy voting to a associate member if he/she wishes.

One of the primary activities of Multihull Racing Australia will be the organising of annual Multihull Nationals which shall include Trailable Multihull Nationals.

Multihull Racing Australia will not be affiliated with Yachting Australia but racing will be organised by YA affiliated yacht clubs or sailing clubs. Members of MRA will vote on the proposed venue and dates for each 'Nationals'. 

Thats enough for tonight, I will think of more tomorrow.

Meanwhile who else will make time to be involved. Darren is in, who else? We will need reps in each state/territory someone to look after rating overall. measurers in each state or major centre (eg poss 2 in QLD, one Bris/GC and one in Nth Qld). What else?



#31 Fuller

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 11:00 PM

OK some quick thoughts to get started:

How about we call it Multihull Racing Australia, described as a group of multihull owners and enthusiasts in Australia formed to promote racing of trailable and non-trailable multihull yachts as distinct from 'off the beach cats'. Multihull owners or part owners qualify to be full members with voting rights. Multihull racing enthusiasts may be associate members and do not have voting rights. A full member may assign proxy voting to a associate member if he/she wishes.

One of the primary activities of Multihull Racing Australia will be the organising of annual Multihull Nationals which shall include Trailable Multihull Nationals.

Multihull Racing Australia will not be affiliated with Yachting Australia but racing will be organised by YA affiliated yacht clubs or sailing clubs. Members of MRA will vote on the proposed venue and dates for each 'Nationals'. 

Thats enough for tonight, I will think of more tomorrow.

Meanwhile who else will make time to be involved. Darren is in, who else? We will need reps in each state/territory someone to look after rating overall. measurers in each state or major centre (eg poss 2 in QLD, one Bris/GC and one in Nth Qld). What else?

Some good ideas here. I don't want to use the term "racing" in the name as we should include all Multihulls as we don't know where this association will end up. ie. insurance problem covers all multis.  I like the name FOAM (Federation of Australasian Multihulls) Also stands for FARK OF ALL MONOS!

This helps include the guys in Asia if interested. Or just keep it Australia.

 

Major issues to be discussed:

 

OMR. Needs properly trained officers in each state so all the boats are weighed and measured the same way. This is not happening at the moment.

Insurance. Must be able to get an association deal somewhere?

Nationals. As above.

 

Fuller



#32 NUDDY

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 12:51 AM

OK some quick thoughts to get started:
How about we call it Multihull Racing Australia, described as a group of multihull owners and enthusiasts in Australia formed to promote racing of trailable and non-trailable multihull yachts as distinct from 'off the beach cats'. Multihull owners or part owners qualify to be full members with voting rights. Multihull racing enthusiasts may be associate members and do not have voting rights. A full member may assign proxy voting to a associate member if he/she wishes.
One of the primary activities of Multihull Racing Australia will be the organising of annual Multihull Nationals which shall include Trailable Multihull Nationals.
Multihull Racing Australia will not be affiliated with Yachting Australia but racing will be organised by YA affiliated yacht clubs or sailing clubs. Members of MRA will vote on the proposed venue and dates for each 'Nationals'. 
Thats enough for tonight, I will think of more tomorrow.
Meanwhile who else will make time to be involved. Darren is in, who else? We will need reps in each state/territory someone to look after rating overall. measurers in each state or major centre (eg poss 2 in QLD, one Bris/GC and one in Nth Qld). What else?

Some good ideas here. I don't want to use the term "racing" in the name as we should include all Multihulls as we don't know where this association will end up. ie. insurance problem covers all multis.  I like the name FOAM (Federation of Australasian Multihulls) Also stands for FARK OF ALL MONOS!
This helps include the guys in Asia if interested. Or just keep it Australia.
 
Major issues to be discussed:
 
OMR. Needs properly trained officers in each state so all the boats are weighed and measured the same way. This is not happening at the moment.
Insurance. Must be able to get an association deal somewhere?
Nationals. As above.
 
Fuller

I think we should keep it to Australia. It is all really about 'Nationals' after all and if we want to have a Inter Dominion or SOPAC we could have another group for that. It is all about racing and I think that should be in the name but I'm not set in stone on that. If we don't want racing in the name how about Multihull Owners Australia. OMR, insurance etc. can be addressed down the track a little, lets get the association going first.
I have a busy day just starting but will be back here (SA) tonight.

#33 NUDDY

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 12:53 AM

For today can everyone think about the name and comment.

#34 Indian Chief

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 06:42 AM

why not name it the same as any other class does. National Multihull Association of Australia seems logical. we must be affiliated with AYF.



why not name it the same as any other class does. National Multihull Association of Australia seems logical. we must be affiliated with AYF.

Make that Yachting Australia 



#35 rog2

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:46 AM

Agreed, whatever it is it must be affiliated with the peak body ue YA.

Worth contemplating the purpose of the association and shaping that purpose to meet the needs of the "rank and file".

Without popular support it won't float.

#36 Fuller

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:59 AM

 

OK some quick thoughts to get started:
How about we call it Multihull Racing Australia, described as a group of multihull owners and enthusiasts in Australia formed to promote racing of trailable and non-trailable multihull yachts as distinct from 'off the beach cats'. Multihull owners or part owners qualify to be full members with voting rights. Multihull racing enthusiasts may be associate members and do not have voting rights. A full member may assign proxy voting to a associate member if he/she wishes.
One of the primary activities of Multihull Racing Australia will be the organising of annual Multihull Nationals which shall include Trailable Multihull Nationals.
Multihull Racing Australia will not be affiliated with Yachting Australia but racing will be organised by YA affiliated yacht clubs or sailing clubs. Members of MRA will vote on the proposed venue and dates for each 'Nationals'. 
Thats enough for tonight, I will think of more tomorrow.
Meanwhile who else will make time to be involved. Darren is in, who else? We will need reps in each state/territory someone to look after rating overall. measurers in each state or major centre (eg poss 2 in QLD, one Bris/GC and one in Nth Qld). What else?

Some good ideas here. I don't want to use the term "racing" in the name as we should include all Multihulls as we don't know where this association will end up. ie. insurance problem covers all multis.  I like the name FOAM (Federation of Australasian Multihulls) Also stands for FARK OF ALL MONOS!
This helps include the guys in Asia if interested. Or just keep it Australia.
 
Major issues to be discussed:
 
OMR. Needs properly trained officers in each state so all the boats are weighed and measured the same way. This is not happening at the moment.
Insurance. Must be able to get an association deal somewhere?
Nationals. As above.
 
Fuller

I think we should keep it to Australia. It is all really about 'Nationals' after all and if we want to have a Inter Dominion or SOPAC we could have another group for that. It is all about racing and I think that should be in the name but I'm not set in stone on that. If we don't want racing in the name how about Multihull Owners Australia. OMR, insurance etc. can be addressed down the track a little, lets get the association going first.
I have a busy day just starting but will be back here (SA) tonight.

This is a lot bigger than just organizing future Nationals. To be a member of this new association we will all have to pay some $$. What are we going to give the punters for there $$? The reason I've being banging on about this is the standardize OMR better and hopefully get cheaper insurance for all multis. (In some cases just get insurance) People will only join if there is a benefit for themselves.



#37 rog2

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 08:41 AM

I would delete "racing". Definitely.

What is the argument to exclude those that don't race? And how do you define "racing" from "not racing"?

The more restrictions you impose the more work you invite for less members.

The theme should be inclusive not exclusive.

#38 Fuller

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 10:45 AM

I would delete "racing". Definitely.

What is the argument to exclude those that don't race? And how do you define "racing" from "not racing"?

The more restrictions you impose the more work you invite for less members.

The theme should be inclusive not exclusive.

+1



#39 NUDDY

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:16 PM

 

 

OK some quick thoughts to get started:
How about we call it Multihull Racing Australia, described as a group of multihull owners and enthusiasts in Australia formed to promote racing of trailable and non-trailable multihull yachts as distinct from 'off the beach cats'. Multihull owners or part owners qualify to be full members with voting rights. Multihull racing enthusiasts may be associate members and do not have voting rights. A full member may assign proxy voting to a associate member if he/she wishes.
One of the primary activities of Multihull Racing Australia will be the organising of annual Multihull Nationals which shall include Trailable Multihull Nationals.
Multihull Racing Australia will not be affiliated with Yachting Australia but racing will be organised by YA affiliated yacht clubs or sailing clubs. Members of MRA will vote on the proposed venue and dates for each 'Nationals'. 
Thats enough for tonight, I will think of more tomorrow.
Meanwhile who else will make time to be involved. Darren is in, who else? We will need reps in each state/territory someone to look after rating overall. measurers in each state or major centre (eg poss 2 in QLD, one Bris/GC and one in Nth Qld). What else?

Some good ideas here. I don't want to use the term "racing" in the name as we should include all Multihulls as we don't know where this association will end up. ie. insurance problem covers all multis.  I like the name FOAM (Federation of Australasian Multihulls) Also stands for FARK OF ALL MONOS!
This helps include the guys in Asia if interested. Or just keep it Australia.
 
Major issues to be discussed:
 
OMR. Needs properly trained officers in each state so all the boats are weighed and measured the same way. This is not happening at the moment.
Insurance. Must be able to get an association deal somewhere?
Nationals. As above.
 
Fuller

I think we should keep it to Australia. It is all really about 'Nationals' after all and if we want to have a Inter Dominion or SOPAC we could have another group for that. It is all about racing and I think that should be in the name but I'm not set in stone on that. If we don't want racing in the name how about Multihull Owners Australia. OMR, insurance etc. can be addressed down the track a little, lets get the association going first.
I have a busy day just starting but will be back here (SA) tonight.

This is a lot bigger than just organizing future Nationals. To be a member of this new association we will all have to pay some $$. What are we going to give the punters for there $$? The reason I've being banging on about this is the standardize OMR better and hopefully get cheaper insurance for all multis. (In some cases just get insurance) People will only join if there is a benefit for themselves.

Well we have a few people interested and it seems I have got the wrong idea.

I was envisioning something small, not big, something with no fees and no big organisation. As I said: "a group of multihull owners and enthusiasts in Australia formed to promote racing of trailable and non-trailable multihull yachts as distinct from 'off the beach cats' ................... One of the primary activities of the group will be the organising of annual Multihull Nationals which shall include Trailable Multihull Nationals.

The group will not be affiliated with Yachting Australia but racing will be organised by YA affiliated yacht clubs or sailing clubs. Members of the group will vote on the proposed venue and dates for each 'Nationals'."

I've been there before, with class associations, the Shorthanded Sailing Association of Australia and the Multihull Yacht Association of NSW.

In my opinion it is sufficient for Yacht and  



#40 NUDDY

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:47 PM

Sailing clubs to be affiliated with YA and for them to run races for the group. 

Now thats what I want and thats what I put my hand up for.

If that's not what the consensus wants then thats fine, I dont want to impose my idea of the group on anyone.

However I'm not putting my hand up for helping to organise an association that will be a big thing with membership fees, YA affiliation, liability, etc. etc.

So its over to you, if you want something big - go for it. If you want something like what I described above then I'll make time to help out.

I'm not saying I'll take my bat and ball and go home. Just that I'm not interested in all that bureaucracy and administration.

Over to you ..............



#41 NUDDY

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 01:09 AM

Maybe what I am looking for is just an effective means of communication where anyone interested can go to float ideas, discuss etc.
Perhaps I'll just set up an email group and invite every multi owner I can find to participate. Then if you get 'class association' up and running you can use that as a means of communication.

#42 auscat

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 03:06 AM

Agreed, whatever it is it must be affiliated with the peak body ue YA.

Worth contemplating the purpose of the association and shaping that purpose to meet the needs of the "rank and file".

Without popular support it won't float.


Been trying to figure out how to say this for a few days so here goes.
Not a big fan of the no boat no vote idea.
There are a lot of non boat owners out there doing a hell of a lot of work for multihulls in general.
To leave the updating and implementation of OMR all up to the owners is a lot of work.
Leaving sailmakers,boatbuilders and other marine professionals out of the process because they don't own a boat will really narrow the ideas pool.
Without input from the guys who run regattas,you may find that what the owners want is not always realistic.
What about the guys who are "between boats",the guy with a set of plans or a half built boat?

It has been my experience over a number of years that the guys who are prepared to put the hard yards in are usually in the minority.If you take out the crews and older blokes who no longer sail but still love multis you may find yourself with a very narrow sample to make and implement important descisions.
My 2c.



#43 NUDDY

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:32 PM

I have 'created' a google group called Multihull Racing Australia. It is intended as a communication medium for people interested in Racing Multihulls, inshore and offshore, not including 'off the beach' cats. I have sent invitations to every person in my contacts who are 'multihull people'. If you know of anyone who may be interested please let them know about the group.

This is not a substitute for a national association, rather it may be a useful tool for those establishing an association to quickly communicate with those interested.



#44 DtM

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 01:01 AM

Sorry 2 or 3 but if this idea is to float at all then it needs to be inclusive and affiliated with YA (they get some crew insurance at least as part of membership).

 

Your idea of a means of communication can happen right here on SA where everyone seems to at least lurk anyway.

 

You are right about big organisations but a loose group will have no firepower at all.

 

My 2 cents.



#45 NUDDY

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 02:14 PM

Sorry 2 or 3 but if this idea is to float at all then it needs to be inclusive and affiliated with YA (they get some crew insurance at least as part of membership).
 
Your idea of a means of communication can happen right here on SA where everyone seems to at least lurk anyway.
 
You are right about big organisations but a loose group will have no firepower at all.
 
My 2 cents.

Isn't everyone a member of a YA affiliated yacht club already?
I don't agree about everyone lurking on SA. I know lots of multihullers who never come here.
I have had a huge response to the group after only a few hours, haven't been back there yet tonight to see how many more but obviously many think it is a good idea for communication.
I have moved on from the Association idea now. I hope it does get up and I will join if it does but I doubt that it will. Hope to be proven wrong.

#46 harryproa

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 02:48 AM

I have 'created' a google group called Multihull Racing Australia. It is intended as a communication medium for people interested in Racing Multihulls, inshore and offshore,

Address?



#47 NUDDY

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 02:54 AM

I have 'created' a google group called Multihull Racing Australia. It is intended as a communication medium for people interested in Racing Multihulls, inshore and offshore,

Address?

 Address: https://groups.googl...acing-australia  sorry Rob, I thought I had sent you an invitation but I hadn't.



#48 NUDDY

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 02:38 AM

OK some quick thoughts to get started:

How about we call it Multihull Racing Australia, described as a group of multihull owners and enthusiasts in Australia formed to promote racing of trailable and non-trailable multihull yachts as distinct from 'off the beach cats'. Multihull owners or part owners qualify to be full members with voting rights. Multihull racing enthusiasts may be associate members and do not have voting rights. A full member may assign proxy voting to a associate member if he/she wishes.

One of the primary activities of Multihull Racing Australia will be the organising of annual Multihull Nationals which shall include Trailable Multihull Nationals.

Multihull Racing Australia will not be affiliated with Yachting Australia but racing will be organised by YA affiliated yacht clubs or sailing clubs. Members of MRA will vote on the proposed venue and dates for each 'Nationals'. 

Thats enough for tonight, I will think of more tomorrow.

Meanwhile who else will make time to be involved. Darren is in, who else? We will need reps in each state/territory someone to look after rating overall. measurers in each state or major centre (eg poss 2 in QLD, one Bris/GC and one in Nth Qld). What else?

Some good ideas here. I don't want to use the term "racing" in the name as we should include all Multihulls as we don't know where this association will end up. ie. insurance problem covers all multis.  I like the name FOAM (Federation of Australasian Multihulls) Also stands for FARK OF ALL MONOS!

This helps include the guys in Asia if interested. Or just keep it Australia.

 

Major issues to be discussed:

 

OMR. Needs properly trained officers in each state so all the boats are weighed and measured the same way. This is not happening at the moment.

Insurance. Must be able to get an association deal somewhere?

Nationals. As above.

 

Fuller

 

 

Agreed, whatever it is it must be affiliated with the peak body ue YA.

Worth contemplating the purpose of the association and shaping that purpose to meet the needs of the "rank and file".

Without popular support it won't float.

 

 

I would delete "racing". Definitely.

What is the argument to exclude those that don't race? And how do you define "racing" from "not racing"?

The more restrictions you impose the more work you invite for less members.

The theme should be inclusive not exclusive.

 

 

Sorry 2 or 3 but if this idea is to float at all then it needs to be inclusive and affiliated with YA (they get some crew insurance at least as part of membership).

 

Your idea of a means of communication can happen right here on SA where everyone seems to at least lurk anyway.

 

You are right about big organisations but a loose group will have no firepower at all.

 

My 2 cents.

I did put my hand up for a national body, as long as it was not a huge bureaucracy that could end up landing me with liability but everyone wanted to make it such a big thing I pulled out of that Idea. I was hoping that all those who wanted to make it such a juggernaut would at least get on with it but nothing has been said by anyone since. How about it guys, it's too late for Airlie But only 6 months to Lincoln. Lets not leave it too late for that.

 

IMO the only thing we want a national body for is to set up a set of rules for nationals and to communicate about racing.

Perhaps SA is sufficient for communication, I don't think so but others obviously do.

Maybe we don't need a national body at all and could do it all through SA?

But could we all agree on anything without the facility of voting?

Since my mailing list for those interested in multihull racing has not gone anywhere I guess all must be happy to go with SA for communication.

I will repeat my offer to get going with a small low key national body with the single purpose of establishing a set of rules for multihull nationals.

Lets see what response I get to that.



#49 Closer TG

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 02:55 AM

Hi Guys,
I have been giving this national multihull association so though....

Firstly... membership. I figure that if you are a paid up member in one of the already recignised state multihull clubs you automatically a a member of the national body.

This group would act under the umbrella of YA. Why wouldn,t you. We all ready pay the fees!

I would figure that it sensible for each of those clubs to nominate what they see as an "appropriate" person or persons to represent their states interests. (I would hope that these interests could broadly be aligned nation wide)

The subjects of interest of the national body are unlimited. Be it insurance, omr racing, cruising related interest or my pet... national alignment on applicable road trailering of our multihulls. Even though they CLAIM alignment there isn't' leagal

#50 Closer TG

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 03:01 AM

Bugger! I posted without meaning too.

I was trying to fix my spell.....never mind.

I suppose all in I am trying to say there I no need to reinvent the wheel here. We just need to get some issues on an table and work at fixing them and I see a nation association carrying a lot more clout than state based ones.

Fuller how's that!

#51 rog2

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 08:00 AM

Closer TG, not all regions have state clubs eg in NSW RMYC have a multihull division however this is not a state body.

#52 multihull

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 09:41 AM

If you want to be part of YA then the association must be formed from a group of the same class yacht/designs based in each state or territory which are members of YA. I have already gone down this path of investigation. So step one approach YA or your State YA Ass. to confirm what is required and then approach each State Multihull club; MYCQ, MYCV, SA (are they affiliated?) RMYS(MYC-NSW), WA (I believe they are forming an Ass. but not sure if it formal yet) MYC-NT, is there a Tassy club? (ask Robin Chamberlin).

I believe we should be part of YA so we can have national recognition for all future events and a governing body to fall back on in the event of a dispute, insurance, training advice, setting constructing or modifying rules in the Blue Book etc.

 

But first you can start an organising committee online with Nuddy as the chairman. (you'd be fantastic at this Paul, you get my vote!) Then you need a Rep from each State and they need to have time to help push the cause. (Sorry that's not me at present because I'm too busy with work and family etc)

 

Then you need to work out priorities.

1. Form a National Ass

2. Draft a standard set of regs for all future Sailing Instructions / guide lines to run future NATS

3. Consult and work with the OMR committee as to the needs, wants and administration of/for OMR

4. and so on __________



#53 Closer TG

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 10:51 AM

I,m not prestigious at anyone. NSW RMYC can play

#54 Closer TG

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 10:54 AM

If you want to be part of YA then the association must be formed from a group of the same class yacht/designs based in each state or territory which are members of YA. I have already gone down this path of investigation. So step one approach YA or your State YA Ass. to confirm what is required and then approach each State Multihull club; MYCQ, MYCV, SA (are they affiliated?) RMYS(MYC-NSW), WA (I believe they are forming an Ass. but not sure if it formal yet) MYC-NT, is there a Tassy club? (ask Robin Chamberlin).
I believe we should be part of YA so we can have national recognition for all future events and a governing body to fall back on in the event of a dispute, insurance, training advice, setting constructing or modifying rules in the Blue Book etc.
 
But first you can start an organising committee online with Nuddy as the chairman. (you'd be fantastic at this Paul, you get my vote!) Then you need a Rep from each State and they need to have time to help push the cause. (Sorry that's not me at present because I'm too busy with work and family etc)
 
Then you need to work out priorities.
1. Form a National Ass
2. Draft a standard set of regs for all future Sailing Instructions / guide lines to run future NATS
3. Consult and work with the OMR committee as to the needs, wants and administration of/for OMR
4. and so on __________



Sound like a fine start

#55 ozmultis

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:19 PM

As the MYCQ rep on YA for many years, the last thing I want is to be associated with that august group of tweed jacket wearing chappies.  



#56 NUDDY

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:51 PM

Hi Guys,
I have been giving this national multihull association so though....
Firstly... membership. I figure that if you are a paid up member in one of the already recignised state multihull clubs you automatically a a member of the national body.
This group would act under the umbrella of YA. Why wouldn,t you. We all ready pay the fees!
I would figure that it sensible for each of those clubs to nominate what they see as an "appropriate" person or persons to represent their states interests. (I would hope that these interests could broadly be aligned nation wide)
The subjects of interest of the national body are unlimited. Be it insurance, omr racing, cruising related interest or my pet... national alignment on applicable road trailering of our multihulls. Even though they CLAIM alignment there isn't' leagal

In NSW there is no multihull club. There was the Multihull Yacht Association of NSW, which was not AYF(YA in those days) affiliated but it ceased to exist long ago. Some NSW multihullers are members of RMYC and the multihull division which is very expensive. Even some of those who race with RMYC are not members of that club. Many of us are members of other clubs which are not multihull clubs.
I think it may be similar in other states. To race with any YA affiliated club, be it club races or a regatta run by that club, one must be a member of YA, usually through a yacht club. We all pay YA fees already - sure, but if the association becomes YA affiliated there will be more fees for the association, paid for by the association members.

#57 NUDDY

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:54 PM

As the MYCQ rep on YA for many years, the last thing I want is to be associated with that august group of tweed jacket wearing chappies.  


I'm with you there ozmultis.

#58 Closer TG

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:56 PM

All tweed jacketed gentlemen are hence forth banished

#59 Closer TG

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 01:00 PM

What about you NSW men joining with your Marion brothers north of the border or forming your own blue group. With or without tweed. Or am I out on a limb here?

#60 NUDDY

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 01:30 PM

What about you NSW men joining with your Marion brothers north of the border or forming your own blue group. With or without tweed. Or am I out on a limb here?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean here and I certainly can't speak for NSW multihullers but I am quite happy to be a member of Wangi RSL Amateur Sailing Club and have my YA membership through that club, which allows me to race in regattas held by other YA affiliated clubs. I don't feel the need to be any more involved with YA than that. I would like to be a member of a National Body and have an input to a set of rules for YA affiliated clubs to use when running a Multihull Nationals.



#61 Closer TG

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 01:53 PM

What about you NSW men joining with your Marion brothers north of the border or forming your own blue group. With or without tweed. Or am I out on a limb here?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean here and I certainly can't speak for NSW multihullers but I am quite happy to be a member of Wangi RSL Amateur Sailing Club and have my YA membership through that club, which allows me to race in regattas held by other YA affiliated clubs. I don't feel the need to be any more involved with YA than that. I would like to be a member of a National Body and have an input to a set of rules for YA affiliated clubs to use when running a Multihull Nationals.

I joined the Wangi RSL sailing club too... cheap beer
Then I joined the Whitsunday sailing club....cheap beer
Then I joined the shag island cruising club. (Macedon devison)....cheap beer
Then I joined the multihull yacht club of Victoria but keep on forgetting to pay my dues.. so I owe em all a beer. But I have paid now so I don't feel quite so bad.
I joined the Hastings yacht club...no cheap beer but I am not kidding it is a great club to be apart off.
And lastly I am a member of the Royal Yacht club of Victoria and I have to say racing there is full on. No cheap beer though.
After all that pay many many many time to YA affiliation fees. Which I may add I strenuously object too.

I am sit in a hotel in puket with a crook tummy and nothing better to do. So that is why I have posted more crap in one day than I ever have for the whole rest of my life.

But I figure Tim is right. We badly need a national voice

#62 NUDDY

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 02:23 PM

If you want to be part of YA then the association must be formed from a group of the same class yacht/designs based in each state or territory which are members of YA.

Problem #1 Multihulls are not same class yacht/designs. They are radically different, from 18' to 60', 2 or 3 hulls. Problem #2 there is not and never likely to be State associations in each state.

I have already gone down this path of investigation. So step one approach YA or your State YA Ass. to confirm what is required and then approach each State Multihull club; MYCQ, MYCV, SA (are they affiliated?) RMYS(MYC-NSW)  I think you mean RMYC and I don't think many (any) who are not members of that already would be prepared to join, I wouldn't Costs heaps! MYA-NSW is long gone. WA (I believe they are forming an Ass. but not sure if it formal yet) MYC-NT, is there a Tassy club? (ask Robin Chamberlin). I can't imagine that you will get State Associations up and running.

I believe we should be part of YA so we can have national recognition for all future events and a governing body to fall back on in the event of a dispute, insurance, training advice, setting constructing or modifying rules in the Blue Book etc.

I believe a National Body should stay well away from YA other than Nationals should be run by YA affiliated yacht clubs or YA affiliated sailing clubs and thus all competitors must be YA members (through their own yacht club or sailing club).

But first you can start an organising committee online with Nuddy as the chairman. (you'd be fantastic at this Paul, you get my vote!) Then you need a Rep from each State and they need to have time to help push the cause. (Sorry that's not me at present because I'm too busy with work and family etc).

I am only interested in a national body (not state bodies) with the purpose of  facilitating a multihull Nationals. This would include establishing rules and guidelines for racing.

I am not interested in 'pushing the cause',  whatever that means. 

Then you need to work out priorities.

1. Form a National Ass

2. Draft a standard set of regs for all future Sailing Instructions / guide lines to run future NATS

3. Consult and work with the OMR committee as to the needs, wants and administration of/for OMR

4. and so on __________

I am not interested in all the other purposes and projects that a Multihull Association might be involved in.

I believe we urgently need a National Body for Multihull Racing and anything else would be a distraction and would interfere with that purpose.

Priorities would be:

I. Form a National Body for Multihull Racing (not a generalised Multihull Association).

2. Discuss and formulate a set of rules for Multihull Racing to be used in parallel with the Blue Book.

3.  Consult and work with the OMR committee as to the needs, wants and administration of/for OMR

 

Thats how I see it. I don't have time for any of it but will make time to co-ordinate/facilitate an online National Body for Multihull Racing. I won't make time for all that other bureaucracy.

If somebody else wants to put their hand up for establishing a generalised Multihull Association then go for it. But lets get on with it now I think it is urgent.



#63 NUDDY

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 02:32 PM

 

What about you NSW men joining with your Marion brothers north of the border or forming your own blue group. With or without tweed. Or am I out on a limb here?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean here and I certainly can't speak for NSW multihullers but I am quite happy to be a member of Wangi RSL Amateur Sailing Club and have my YA membership through that club, which allows me to race in regattas held by other YA affiliated clubs. I don't feel the need to be any more involved with YA than that. I would like to be a member of a National Body and have an input to a set of rules for YA affiliated clubs to use when running a Multihull Nationals.

I joined the Wangi RSL sailing club too... cheap beer
Then I joined the Whitsunday sailing club....cheap beer
Then I joined the shag island cruising club. (Macedon devison)....cheap beer
Then I joined the multihull yacht club of Victoria but keep on forgetting to pay my dues.. so I owe em all a beer. But I have paid now so I don't feel quite so bad.
I joined the Hastings yacht club...no cheap beer but I am not kidding it is a great club to be apart off.
And lastly I am a member of the Royal Yacht club of Victoria and I have to say racing there is full on. No cheap beer though.
After all that pay many many many time to YA affiliation fees. Which I may add I strenuously object too.

I am sit in a hotel in puket with a crook tummy and nothing better to do. So that is why I have posted more crap in one day than I ever have for the whole rest of my life.

But I figure Tim is right. We badly need a national voice

You won't join RMYC (as a boatowner, social membership is cheap). No cheap beer and exorbitant membership fees.

We might need a national voice but we much more urgently need a National Body for Multihull Racing, at the very least to give multihull owners who are interested in racing some input into the venue of the nationals, something better than a show of hands at the end of the preso dinner. 



#64 rog2

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 07:15 PM

The main reason that you have to be a member of a YA affiliated club or association to race is insurance and liability. If you want to go it alone on a national basis you will have to provide all these facilities, and more.

#65 rog2

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 07:21 PM

I believe we should be part of YA so we can have national recognition for all future events and a governing body to fall back on in the event of a dispute, insurance, training advice, setting constructing or modifying rules in the Blue Book...


Forming an independent association will require duplication of all these services - hard enough to get volunteers for easy jobs.

#66 NUDDY

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 07:57 PM

The main reason that you have to be a member of a YA affiliated club or association to race is insurance and liability. If you want to go it alone on a national basis you will have to provide all these facilities, and more.

  

I believe we should be part of YA so we can have national recognition for all future events and a governing body to fall back on in the event of a dispute, insurance, training advice, setting constructing or modifying rules in the Blue Book...


Forming an independent association will require duplication of all these services - hard enough to get volunteers for easy jobs.


Racing and regattas would be (are already being) held by YA affiliated clubs. All participants in racing and regattas run by YA affiliated clubs are required to be YA members (through their own YA affiliated club) . None of the above facilities and services are required to be supplied by a National Body. No duplication. No volunteers required. No fees required.

#67 Closer TG

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 01:23 AM

Although I agree we need a national body to oversee and promote racing within our ranks desperately i also think we need a voice in all sorts of areas. I agree that whatever is started up is done "economy" in terms of manpower, money and limit the amount of bureaucracy. All other models are bound to fail.

I also think it will fail if interested parties start saying "I won't be a part of it unless........is meet"

If it is in deed to get up we need people who are prepared to say a lot of yes words and less negative sentiments. Maybe the way to go is to start with making sure the racing is set up first then tackle different but equally problatic area as...be assured it bloody hard to go racing if your boat isn't insured. It also hard to race if the laws of the land (over all the states) say you can tow your boat to this border but not to the next.

What about the blue books two boat lenght rule at a rounding bouy. I think with our closing speeds we need something like six boat lengths to call bouy room safely. Shit I already do. For multihulls two boat lengths is silly. It is already well and truly finished. But someday someone is going to put me in deep shit over that one.

Point being we need to (over time) try and have a say in the conditions under which we use our boats. If we are completely happy with the status quo the doing bugger all is a viable option isn't it.

Now having done my thing I think its time I went back to sleep. Night

#68 NUDDY

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 02:09 AM

Although I agree we need a national body to oversee and promote racing within our ranks desperately i also think we need a voice in all sorts of areas. I agree that whatever is started up is done "economy" in terms of manpower, money and limit the amount of bureaucracy. All other models are bound to fail.

I also think it will fail if interested parties start saying "I won't be a part of it unless........is meet"

If it is in deed to get up we need people who are prepared to say a lot of yes words and less negative sentiments. Maybe the way to go is to start with making sure the racing is set up first then tackle different but equally problatic area as...be assured it bloody hard to go racing if your boat isn't insured. It also hard to race if the laws of the land (over all the states) say you can tow your boat to this border but not to the next.

What about the blue books two boat lenght rule at a rounding bouy. I think with our closing speeds we need something like six boat lengths to call bouy room safely. Shit I already do. For multihulls two boat lengths is silly. It is already well and truly finished. But someday someone is going to put me in deep shit over that one.

Point being we need to (over time) try and have a say in the conditions under which we use our boats. If we are completely happy with the status quo the doing bugger all is a viable option isn't it.

Now having done my thing I think its time I went back to sleep. Night

Just a quick point. I don't think anyone has said "I won't be a part of it unless........is meet".

I have said I won't be the one who deals with the YA and bureaucracy if it is to go that way. However it turns out I will be part of it (a member) but it will be disappointing if I have to give YA more money, I give them too much already. I am prepared to do some work towards facilitating the more efficient 'doing' of what we do already regarding racing. I don't want to be the one who politically lobbies insurance companies to try to convince them to change their policy, and same for Roads and Maritime (in NSW, don't know what they now call it in other states) about trailing width etc.



#69 NUDDY

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 02:40 AM

This has being spoken about now for the past few years. Is it time to set this up and what are the benefits to members.

I can see some great positives about this, OMR and insurance matters for 2 examples. What do you all think?

 

Is it worth floating this idea at the Nationals in Airlie this year?

 

Thoughts please....... 

607 views and 13 post. Thought there would be more interest about this topic. I guess that answers the question in the short term and we wont have to have one of those shit meetings at the Nationals again. 

 

 

Some kind of national body would certainly make organising the nationals a lot easier.

 

 

Anyone understand the process to form a national association for non off the beach Multihulls? i believe we need it just to administer national events and ratings as a starter.

 

 

 

OK back to the start of the thread.

Do we want an Australian Multihull Association?

Is there anyone prepared to put in the time and effort to establish an Australian Multihull Association?

 

Fuller asked the question and had 13 replies.

Some have said yes and this is what it should be.

Others have said maybe and this is what it should be

No-one has said yes and I will put in the time and effort. Seems that a few want an Australian Multihull Association and know what they want it to be but want someone else to do all the work.

OK Darren did say he would help but everyone else was keen to get someone else to do it all.

 

Pretty disappointing overall I think.

I will ask another question but will start a new thread to do it.



#70 HILLY

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 07:02 AM

Although I agree we need a national body to oversee and promote racing within our ranks desperately i also think we need a voice in all sorts of areas. I agree that whatever is started up is done "economy" in terms of manpower, money and limit the amount of bureaucracy. All other models are bound to fail.

I also think it will fail if interested parties start saying "I won't be a part of it unless........is meet"

If it is in deed to get up we need people who are prepared to say a lot of yes words and less negative sentiments. Maybe the way to go is to start with making sure the racing is set up first then tackle different but equally problatic area as...be assured it bloody hard to go racing if your boat isn't insured. It also hard to race if the laws of the land (over all the states) say you can tow your boat to this border but not to the next.

What about the blue books two boat lenght rule at a rounding bouy. I think with our closing speeds we need something like six boat lengths to call bouy room safely. Shit I already do. For multihulls two boat lengths is silly. It is already well and truly finished. But someday someone is going to put me in deep shit over that one.

Point being we need to (over time) try and have a say in the conditions under which we use our boats. If we are completely happy with the status quo the doing bugger all is a viable option isn't it.

Now having done my thing I think its time I went back to sleep. Night

You will be happy to know the boat length rule at a mark is 3 boatlengths, of the boat nearest the mark, has been for a few years now, but I agree that with multihull boatspeeds, that maybe that zone should be opened up.
From R.R.S. 2013-16
" Zone The area around a mark within a distance of three hull lengths of the
boat nearer to it. A boat is in the zone when any part of her hull is in the zone."

#71 multihull

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 09:35 AM

Gee YA opened a can of worms on my last post. It's great to see such passionate debate. 

IF we get a National Multihull Ass started how do we ensure it represents the sailors voice not just the persons on the committee personal needs or issues. It has to be democratic and we all need to have a say and a vote. Does it go through the various multihull State clubs or Ass. or do we leave it up to Nuddy, Chippy, Fuller or Multihull to make the decision for us all. Each State will have different issues and priorities. Pls note, these comments are just food for thought and not a dig at anyone or the idea. They're important issues that need consideration from the start.

Or when another stupid Blue Book rule change comes along that effects Multis how does the Multi Association have a say in recommending an amendment or modification. You must be a affiliated club before they will listen. This is where the Multi Ass. must contact all clubs and maybe recommend and advise each club they need to submit a reply to YA by a certain date and how to word it so we have similar recommendation so will have a chance of the rule being modified or dropped.



#72 wineglass

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 10:30 AM

Time to come out from the shadows and voice an option, I believe a national association is a must, but I think the members should be the various state clubs / associations and not individuals and YA is important. The charter should be all things multi, including racing (OMR divs etc..) cruising, and maybe the most important agenda at the moment is insurance. I look forward to hear on the out come of Airlie, Remo has my proxy. The other point is that with Airlie and Lincoln only 6 months apart we should use this opportunity to keep the momentum going. PS sorry I can't get north getting very jealous talking to those who are.

#73 NUDDY

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 01:58 PM

Time to come out from the shadows and voice an option, I believe a national association is a must, but I think the members should be the various state clubs / associations and not individuals and YA is important. The charter should be all things multi, including racing (OMR divs etc..) cruising, and maybe the most important agenda at the moment is insurance. I look forward to hear on the out come of Airlie, Remo has my proxy. The other point is that with Airlie and Lincoln only 6 months apart we should use this opportunity to keep the momentum going. PS sorry I can't get north getting very jealous talking to those who are.


So the states without one already have to form a multihull club first, so that their club can be a member of a national association?
Or did you mean any club that includes Multihulls in which case there would be many clubs from each state?

#74 Closer TG

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:29 AM

I am sure that everyone would want what ever model that effectively represents the wishes of multihullers right round au. Seems to me qld is well covered with mycq, and SA is also fine, I know that Vic can easily be represented and I honestly have no idea about Tas, NT and Wa. It does seem that NSW is perplexing in how you guys see yourselves. I know that there are lots of you and you appear from the outside to be fiercely indipendant (even from each other) Maybe it is all too hard to get to a point were we can truly say "these policies here are what the current multi interested sailers want to happen'

Throwing it back to you NSW guys......how would you like to see yourselves represented? Or is it every color of the rainbow stuff?

#75 Chris 249

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:31 AM

  I like the name FOAM (Federation of Australasian Multihulls) Also stands for FARK OF ALL MONOS!

 

Imagine the screams of hate if someone proposed a mono association and said that FOAM that stood for "Fark off all multis".....

 

Smug but hate-filled anti-mono attitudes are one of the big reasons I no longer race offshore multis.



#76 Closer TG

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:36 AM

  I like the name FOAM (Federation of Australasian Multihulls) Also stands for FARK OF ALL MONOS!

 
Imagine the screams of hate if someone proposed a mono association and said that FOAM that stood for "Fark off all multis".....
 
Smug but hate-filled anti-mono attitudes are one of the big reasons I no longer race offshore multis.

Well said Chris. All sailboats rock

#77 NUDDY

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 11:35 AM

I am sure that everyone would want what ever model that effectively represents the wishes of multihullers right round au. Seems to me qld is well covered with mycq, and SA is also fine, I know that Vic can easily be represented and I honestly have no idea about Tas, NT and Wa. It does seem that NSW is perplexing in how you guys see yourselves. I know that there are lots of you and you appear from the outside to be fiercely indipendant (even from each other) Maybe it is all too hard to get to a point were we can truly say "these policies here are what the current multi interested sailers want to happen'

Throwing it back to you NSW guys......how would you like to see yourselves represented? Or is it every color of the rainbow stuff?

I can't speak for anyone else but for myself, I get so sick of all this states stuff. I see myself as an Australian (and I have a certificate that proves I am) and not  as a NewSouthWelshPerson. I would like to be represented as an Australian Racing Multihull Owner and an Australian Racing Multihull Enthusiast. If I must be a member of a 'State Multihull Club' I will re-join MYCQ where I was a member for many years despite living in NSW.



#78 rog2

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 01:45 PM

If you want the national association to represent the whole country, the peak body, you must include the state bodies.

For example if XYZ race week is being held by ABC yacht club they will have to run it by their rules, which include YA rules and conditions esp regarding liability and insurance. Otherwise the organisers could be held personally liable.

To ensure compliance with rules you must have the authority to do so.

#79 NUDDY

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 03:57 PM

If you want the national association to represent the whole country, the peak body, you must include the state bodies.

For example if XYZ race week is being held by ABC yacht club they will have to run it by their rules, which include YA rules and conditions esp regarding liability and insurance. Otherwise the organisers could be held personally liable.

To ensure compliance with rules you must have the authority to do so.

 

 

There are no state bodies, just yacht clubs. MYCQ is not a State Body it is a yacht club that specialises in multihulls.

I have been an official in the Int 470 class association, and Int Contender class association. Both of these had State Associations and a National association, all YA affiliated and none of them yacht clubs. All races, states and nationals were run by YA affiliated yacht clubs, not by the state or national associations. I have also been an official in the Shorthanded Sailing Association of Australia (inc), the peak body for Shorthanded sail racing in Australia. It is YA affiliated because it runs races. It has no state associations, it is a stand alone National Association. You don't have to have state bodies.

 

Of course the races/regattas are run by YA affiliated yacht clubs and run by their rules, which include YA rules and conditions esp regarding liability and insurance.

This includes that all competitors must be YA members (through their own yacht clubs).

Even so the organisers can be held personally liable which is why the SSAA is incorporated and has Directors Insurance. We didn't have that in the 470s and Contenders but that was a long time ago, they probably do now.

 

Basically if you are not running races you don't need to be YA affiliated.

And to be a national association you don't need to have state associations.



#80 rog2

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:34 PM

I'm still having problems coming to grips with your proposal;

No affiliation
No clear representation
No discernible authority
No races
No fees
No corporate structure?

#81 NUDDY

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 02:16 AM

I'm still having problems coming to grips with your proposal;

No affiliation
No clear representation
No discernible authority
No races
No fees
No corporate structure?

Correct, almost. There would be races but the races the races would be run by YA affiliated yacht clubs.

Years ago we had the SeaWind 24 association of NSW. No affiliation No clear representation No discernible authority No fees No corporate structure. Every year at Easter we had the SeaWind 24 states, Alternating between Sydney Harbour and Botany Bay. Each year it was run by a AYF(YA) affiliated yacht club. On Sydney Harbour the club was Manly Yacht Club. On Botany Bay it was usually Yarra Bay Sailing Club. The yacht club ran the regatta and charged the fees for it.

 

This is the same as what happens now with the Multihull Nationals except there is only a de-facto association with half a dozen members and no co-ordinator.

At Wangi for 2006, 2008, 2010 and 2012 (the only nationals I have been to in recent history) it has been up to Shane Russell to make all the decisions that should be made by the association members and hope that his decisions meet with the competitors approval. Wouldn't it be much better to get everyone to vote on these things instead.

We could avoid all the friction over this at the regatta by sorting things out beforehand and make it easier for the individual who has volunteered to organise the regatta.



#82 Zorro2

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 07:28 AM

I'm still having problems coming to grips with your proposal;

No affiliation
No clear representation
No discernible authority
No races
No fees
No corporate structure?

Correct, almost. There would be races but the races the races would be run by YA affiliated yacht clubs.

Years ago we had the SeaWind 24 association of NSW. No affiliation No clear representation No discernible authority No fees No corporate structure. Every year at Easter we had the SeaWind 24 states, Alternating between Sydney Harbour and Botany Bay. Each year it was run by a AYF(YA) affiliated yacht club. On Sydney Harbour the club was Manly Yacht Club. On Botany Bay it was usually Yarra Bay Sailing Club. The yacht club ran the regatta and charged the fees for it.

 

This is the same as what happens now with the Multihull Nationals except there is only a de-facto association with half a dozen members and no co-ordinator.

At Wangi for 2006, 2008, 2010 and 2012 (the only nationals I have been to in recent history) it has been up to Shane Russell to make all the decisions that should be made by the association members and hope that his decisions meet with the competitors approval. Wouldn't it be much better to get everyone to vote on these things instead.

We could avoid all the friction over this at the regatta by sorting things out beforehand and make it easier for the individual who has volunteered to organise the regatta.

Hi Paul, to get this thing to fly, it may need to be a bit more formal than this. I'll give it some thought and let you have some comments in the next couple of days.

 

Regards

Alan



#83 Peccadillo

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 11:26 AM

Ok - my simple brain is struggling to keep track of this discussion so I've tried to go through and extract the key points everyone has made and group them in a way that might be helpful. There does seem to be a fair bit of consistency to what everyone thinks are the issues even if there is a fair bit of difference in the suggested ways to address them. If I've missed something, sorry its just my ageing brain - so just add it back in!

 

What should/could it do?

  • Organise the Nationals
  • Manage OMR
  • Effective means for communication about racing
  • Negotiate on behalf of multihulls e.g. insurance issues, representation to government about trailer laws, input to Blue Book

Who Should be In It?

  • Racing only or cruisers too?
  • OTB too?
  • Needs popular support
  • Needs to benefit members/be inclusive

How Organised?

  • Informal or formal?
  • Not a huge bureaucracy – email group maybe, but how do we agree/vote?
  • YA or not YA?
  • YA sub-committee like trailerables/sportsboats/offshore
  • Fees/levy?
  • Start with nominations from state associations – but not all states have one/do we need state bodies?
  • Name?


#84 rog2

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:01 PM

I think we can strike state multihull clubs off the list - to all intent and purposes there aren't any. However, most if not all multihull racers are members of local clubs, who are state YA affiliated.

So to my mind there should be some "harmonising" with existing structures.

#85 Fuller

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:15 PM

  I like the name FOAM (Federation of Australasian Multihulls) Also stands for FARK OF ALL MONOS!

 

Imagine the screams of hate if someone proposed a mono association and said that FOAM that stood for "Fark off all multis".....

 

Smug but hate-filled anti-mono attitudes are one of the big reasons I no longer race offshore multis.

 

 

 

  I like the name FOAM (Federation of Australasian Multihulls) Also stands for FARK OF ALL MONOS!

 
Imagine the screams of hate if someone proposed a mono association and said that FOAM that stood for "Fark off all multis".....
 
Smug but hate-filled anti-mono attitudes are one of the big reasons I no longer race offshore multis.

Well said Chris. All sailboats rock

Little disappointed with only hooking 2 fish and one of them a whale.



#86 wineglass

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:16 PM

I think that the mycq, mycv and the myasa are state based association / clubs. In SA we belong to our individual clubs as well as the myasa. Our local club/s run our races but have no interest in our national issues such as OMR and insurance

#87 Peccadillo

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:21 PM

Now my thoughts on some of these issues ...

 

What should it do? The most minimal model is to just organize the nationals. That is just a standard regatta organizing committee. Decide on how many members, and vote/organize at each national, liaise by email. Job done. BTW I'm not being cynical - this could be a good, simple way to start and test the waters.

 

OMR - as pointed out elsewhere in the thread, that's up to MYCQ. If they want a broader involvement from others, that could be via any group that comes out of these discussions, but could just as easily be a self-contained technical group as it really is largely a technical area. Best to keep politics out of it as far as possible :P

 

Communicate about racing - that's just an email group. Nuddy's already done this. But if it wants to organize races, input to Blue Book etc  then my view is that an email group will struggle as it is really hard to resolve anything via an unstructured email group (look at this thread!). And if u need to meet, then u need structure, representation and some money to pay for some airfares etc. You can invent all this from scratch but I think it would be simplest and cheapest to do this via a YA multihull committee. I know u have to put up with some tweedy guys, but YA have the infrastructure and the money. Less than 10% of their income is from affiliation fees so they can afford to support a committee at a level that would require a standalone organization to have substantial income - and no-one is going to pay much if anything to be a national multihull member (you know, hippies and all that ;) ). I've got the same thoughts about the "negotiate for multihullers" role too. The idea of negotiating for a group is to get the outcome for your members - and YA would add credibility in dealing with government and non-sailors.

 

Who should be in it? There does seem to be plenty of agreement on this - be inclusive. If it is standalone, then I'd suggest not including OTB unless they were keen. If a YA committee, then maybe should include OTB, as they seem to be poorly represented by YA.

 

How organized? See my comments above. I think you either have a minimalist model - which might be the nationals organizing committee plus Nuddy's email group - or you go the YA route.

 

Just my two bob's worth ....



#88 NUDDY

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:49 PM

I think we can strike state multihull clubs off the list - to all intent and purposes there aren't any. However, most if not all multihull racers are members of local clubs, who are state YA affiliated.

So to my mind there should be some "harmonising" with existing structures.

Correct, there appears to be one in SA, don't know about Victoria, none in NSW and MYCQ is a yacht club which does run races and is not a state multihull association.



#89 NUDDY

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:52 PM

I think that the mycq, mycv and the myasa are state based association / clubs. In SA we belong to our individual clubs as well as the myasa. Our local club/s run our races but have no interest in our national issues such as OMR and insurance

Well it does appear thatMYASA is a state association. I don't know about Victoria but MYCQ is a yacht club which does run races and is not a state multihull association.



#90 Peccadillo

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:59 PM

MYCV is a state-based club. No premises, organizes some races, races are run by other clubs.



#91 NUDDY

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 01:39 PM

Now my thoughts on some of these issues ...

 

What should it do? The most minimal model is to just organize the nationals. That is just a standard regatta organizing committee. Decide on how many members, and vote/organize at each national, liaise by email. Job done. BTW I'm not being cynical - this could be a good, simple way to start and test the waters.

How do we organise the nationals now? I know how it is done at Wangi. Shane and Michelle do it all. How is it being done at Airlie right now? How is it proposed to be done at Pt Lincoln.

At Wangi Shane just has to take a guess at what the competitors want. I'm sure that he would appreciate some prior guidance on what they want.

 

OMR - as pointed out elsewhere in the thread, that's up to MYCQ. If they want a broader involvement from others, that could be via any group that comes out of these discussions, but could just as easily be a self-contained technical group as it really is largely a technical area. Best to keep politics out of it as far as possible :P

MYCQ already has its own OMR committee. Competitors have had serious gripes about OMR over recent years and there has been a lot of friction. Surely we can have a sensible discussion over email and come to a consensus position to present to MYCQ OMR Committee.

 

Communicate about racing - that's just an email group. Nuddy's already done this. But if it wants to organize races, input to Blue Book etc  then my view is that an email group will struggle as it is really hard to resolve anything via an unstructured email group (look at this thread!). And if u need to meet, then u need structure, representation and some money to pay for some airfares etc.

With today's communication why would you need to meet? Surely email communication is even better, no need to have a secretary to take minutes, all conversations are on record.

 

You can invent all this from scratch but I think it would be simplest and cheapest to do this via a YA multihull committee. I know u have to put up with some tweedy guys, but YA have the infrastructure and the money. Less than 10% of their income is from affiliation fees so they can afford to support a committee at a level that would require a standalone organization to have substantial income - and no-one is going to pay much if anything to be a national multihull member (you know, hippies and all that ;) ). I've got the same thoughts about the "negotiate for multihullers" role too. The idea of negotiating for a group is to get the outcome for your members - and YA would add credibility in dealing with government and non-sailors.

YA is only about racing. If we are looking for someone to help negotiate about insurance for example then YA is not the body. This is not just racing insurance we are talking about it is general boat insurance which will cover the boat for all eventualities. To do this sort of thing we would need a body like the Boat Owners Association, not the peak yacht racing body.

 

Who should be in it? There does seem to be plenty of agreement on this - be inclusive.

Yes, anyone who is interested in Multihull Racing should be welcomed as a member but when it comes to voting only boatowners (or their representative) should be eligible to vote.

If it is standalone, then I'd suggest not including OTB unless they were keen. If a YA committee, then maybe should include OTB, as they seem to be poorly represented by YA.

 

How organized? See my comments above. I think you either have a minimalist model - which might be the nationals organizing committee plus Nuddy's email group - or you go the YA route.

I think we can do better than that minimalist model with the use of email communication. do we currently have an organising committee for the nationals?

Just my two bob's worth ....

worth a lot more that 2 bob. Thanks for the input. I am going ahead with a minimalist model.



#92 DtM

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 10:34 PM

Your voting model is flawed in my view.

Why limit to owners? Crew and even interested hangers on should be entitled to a voice backed up by a vote. Apart from anything else that could find resolution of disputes between self interested owners that just cause friction.

#93 NUDDY

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 12:00 AM

Your voting model is flawed in my view.

Why limit to owners? Crew and even interested hangers on should be entitled to a voice backed up by a vote. Apart from anything else that could find resolution of disputes between self interested owners that just cause friction.

Everyone can have a voice in discussion but when it comes to a vote if everyone can vote then one individual owner might have a point that all the other owners disagree with but he/she could get all his/her mates to join up and overwhelm the voting. Like 'branch stacking'.



#94 NUDDY

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 12:10 AM

Your voting model is flawed in my view.

Why limit to owners? Crew and even interested hangers on should be entitled to a voice backed up by a vote. Apart from anything else that could find resolution of disputes between self interested owners that just cause friction.

Everyone can have a voice in discussion but when it comes to a vote if everyone can vote then one individual owner might have a point that all the other owners disagree with but he/she could get all his/her mates to join up and overwhelm the voting. Like 'branch stacking'.

I will be leaving this thread from now on as it is about the Australian Multihull Association. If anyone wants to pursue and start such an Association then go for it and I will join it unless it specifically excludes racing. I have started Multihull Racing Australia which is not a substitute for a AMA but may be absorbed by AMA if it ever happens. Meanwhile MRA, which is specifically about racing, is happening now. Anyone interested can join by emailing multihullracing@gmail.com



#95 Corley_

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 12:18 AM

I'm interested to hear from people what they would want in an Australian Multihull Association.  If it had a narrow enough range of issues that it is designed to tackle I think it's a good idea.  If it's too broad in focus I don't think it could operate without paid staff but if it's just focused on a few key issues then it could be successful.  What structure would such an association adopt?  Inclusive sounds good to me OTB multihulls are the most popular out there and perhaps they could benefit from some national representation as well. 



#96 Zorro2

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 03:11 AM

I'm interested to hear from people what they would want in an Australian Multihull Association.  If it had a narrow enough range of issues that it is designed to tackle I think it's a good idea.  If it's too broad in focus I don't think it could operate without paid staff but if it's just focused on a few key issues then it could be successful.  What structure would such an association adopt?  Inclusive sounds good to me OTB multihulls are the most popular out there and perhaps they could benefit from some national representation as well. 

I mentioned in an earlier post that in my view a formal structure will be needed if this is to have any legs.

 

Here below is my "straw man" outlining one option for a way forward if someone is prepared to pick up the ball and run with it (not me!). Text in square brackets is explanatory.

 

AUSTRALIAN MULTIHULL OWNERS ASSOCIATION

 

 

PURPOSE

 

To provide a national forum to facilitate the growth, development and enhancement of the sport of Multihull Yacht sailing in Australia.

 

FOCUS

 

1.  Represent at a national level, the interests of Australian multihull yacht owners in the areas of multihull racing and multihull cruising.


2.  Provide advocacy for issues pertinent to the efficient and effective development of multihull yacht sailing in Australia [Note: this may include matters such as insurance, ISAF regs. etc]


3.  Act as a single point of contact for a range of industry stakeholders including manufacturers, regulators, YA, boating industry etc.


4.  As required, assist state or regional based multihull clubs and associations with the running of local regattas, state or national championships.


5.  Provide a focal point for consideration of views concerning the development of the OMR rating system


6.  Other matters of relevance to the Association’s Purpose.

 

 

GOVERNANCE

 

1.  The Australian Multihull Owners Association to be established as a “not for profit” incorporated body [this can be done under various State bodies eg NSW or QLD Fair Trading, VIC Consumer Affairs and provides a number of advantages and safeguards, but also imposes certain legal obligations]


2.  National Association Members to be local multihull clubs or associations paying an annual membership fee to the National Association [fees to be collected from their own club/association members – say a nominal amount of $20 per member per annum] 


3.  Each National Association Member to nominate a maximum of two people to provide input to the National Association on behalf of their own members. The total number of nominees will form the National Association “Caucus”. 


4.  A Management Committee to be established – initially comprising three (honorary) positions: President, vice President, Secretary.


5.  Initial task for the Management Committee is to create the Association and support infrastructure including website. [may require legal and other advice/assistance]


6.  Communication between the Management Committee and Caucus conducted largely by email [An annual meeting of the Caucus is likely to be required]


7.  Communication with the broader membership to be conducted via the Association’s website



#97 Indian Chief

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 04:03 AM


I'm interested to hear from people what they would want in an Australian Multihull Association.  If it had a narrow enough range of issues that it is designed to tackle I think it's a good idea.  If it's too broad in focus I don't think it could operate without paid staff but if it's just focused on a few key issues then it could be successful.  What structure would such an association adopt?  Inclusive sounds good to me OTB multihulls are the most popular out there and perhaps they could benefit from some national representation as well. 

I mentioned in an earlier post that in my view a formal structure will be needed if this is to have any legs.

 

Here below is my "straw man" outlining one option for a way forward if someone is prepared to pick up the ball and run with it (not me!). Text in square brackets is explanatory.

 

AUSTRALIAN MULTIHULL OWNERS ASSOCIATION

 

 

PURPOSE

 

To provide a national forum to facilitate the growth, development and enhancement of the sport of Multihull Yacht sailing in Australia.

 

FOCUS

 

1.  Represent at a national level, the interests of Australian multihull yacht owners in the areas of multihull racing and multihull cruising.

2.  Provide advocacy for issues pertinent to the efficient and effective development of multihull yacht sailing in Australia [Note: this may include matters such as insurance, ISAF regs. etc]

3.  Act as a single point of contact for a range of industry stakeholders including manufacturers, regulators, YA, boating industry etc.

4.  As required, assist state or regional based multihull clubs and associations with the running of local regattas, state or national championships.

5.  Provide a focal point for consideration of views concerning the development of the OMR rating system

6.  Other matters of relevance to the Association’s Purpose.

 

 

GOVERNANCE

 

1.  The Australian Multihull Owners Association to be established as a “not for profit” incorporated body [this can be done under various State bodies eg NSW or QLD Fair Trading, VIC Consumer Affairs and provides a number of advantages and safeguards, but also imposes certain legal obligations]

2.  National Association Members to be local multihull clubs or associations paying an annual membership fee to the National Association [fees to be collected from their own club/association members – say a nominal amount of $20 per member per annum] 

3.  Each National Association Member to nominate a maximum of two people to provide input to the National Association on behalf of their own members. The total number of nominees will form the National Association “Caucus”. 

4.  A Management Committee to be established – initially comprising three (honorary) positions: President, vice President, Secretary.

5.  Initial task for the Management Committee is to create the Association and support infrastructure including website. [may require legal and other advice/assistance]

6.  Communication between the Management Committee and Caucus conducted largely by email [An annual meeting of the Caucus is likely to be required]

7.  Communication with the broader membership to be conducted via the Association’s website

Thats it Zorro 2. I think its time to take off your cape and mask because you are the man for the job big A! 



#98 NUDDY

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 08:34 AM

I'm interested to hear from people what they would want in an Australian Multihull Association.  If it had a narrow enough range of issues that it is designed to tackle I think it's a good idea.  If it's too broad in focus I don't think it could operate without paid staff but if it's just focused on a few key issues then it could be successful.  What structure would such an association adopt?  Inclusive sounds good to me OTB multihulls are the most popular out there and perhaps they could benefit from some national representation as well. 

I mentioned in an earlier post that in my view a formal structure will be needed if this is to have any legs. Here below is my "straw man" outlining one option for a way forward if someone is prepared to pick up the ball and run with it (not me!). Text in square brackets is explanatory. AUSTRALIAN MULTIHULL OWNERS ASSOCIATION  PURPOSE To provide a national forum to facilitate the growth, development and enhancement of the sport of Multihull Yacht sailing in Australia. FOCUS 1.  Represent at a national level, the interests of Australian multihull yacht owners in the areas of multihull racing and multihull cruising.
2.  Provide advocacy for issues pertinent to the efficient and effective development of multihull yacht sailing in Australia [Note: this may include matters such as insurance, ISAF regs. etc]
3.  Act as a single point of contact for a range of industry stakeholders including manufacturers, regulators, YA, boating industry etc.
4.  As required, assist state or regional based multihull clubs and associations with the running of local regattas, state or national championships.
5.  Provide a focal point for consideration of views concerning the development of the OMR rating system
6.  Other matters of relevance to the Association’s Purpose.  GOVERNANCE 1.  The Australian Multihull Owners Association to be established as a “not for profit” incorporated body [this can be done under various State bodies eg NSW or QLD Fair Trading, VIC Consumer Affairs and provides a number of advantages and safeguards, but also imposes certain legal obligations]
2.  National Association Members to be local multihull clubs or associations paying an annual membership fee to the National Association [fees to be collected from their own club/association members – say a nominal amount of $20 per member per annum] 
3.  Each National Association Member to nominate a maximum of two people to provide input to the National Association on behalf of their own members. The total number of nominees will form the National Association “Caucus”. 
4.  A Management Committee to be established – initially comprising three (honorary) positions: President, vice President, Secretary.
5.  Initial task for the Management Committee is to create the Association and support infrastructure including website. [may require legal and other advice/assistance]
6.  Communication between the Management Committee and Caucus conducted largely by email [An annual meeting of the Caucus is likely to be required]
7.  Communication with the broader membership to be conducted via the Association’s website

Looks good Al hope someone will pick it up and run with it [not me either].

I just have a problem with GOVERNANCE 2.
There is a Multihull Association in South Australia.
I don't know the situation in Victoria.
In QLD there is MYCQ which is a Yacht Club, not a State Multihull Association. Not all QLD multihullers are MYCQ members.
Either a QMA has to be set up before AMA or MYCQ has to become the QMA and all QLD multihullers join.
I think MYCQ still has a country membership (reduced) rate which would make that less prohibitive.
The NSW situation is even worse. RMYC is not even a Multihull Club. It is a Yacht Club with a multihull division. Even if RMYC could be state Multihull Association the cost of membership is prohibitive to anyone who does not race with RMYC. If this model does get up I would re-join MYCQ instead.
I have no idea what happens in TAS, NT and WA. There was MANTA in NT years back, I don't know if it is still going.

Why not have individual members of AMA?

Also meetings of committee need not be face to face. They could be teleconferenced or even by email.

#99 Zorro2

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 09:09 AM

 

I'm interested to hear from people what they would want in an Australian Multihull Association.  If it had a narrow enough range of issues that it is designed to tackle I think it's a good idea.  If it's too broad in focus I don't think it could operate without paid staff but if it's just focused on a few key issues then it could be successful.  What structure would such an association adopt?  Inclusive sounds good to me OTB multihulls are the most popular out there and perhaps they could benefit from some national representation as well. 

I mentioned in an earlier post that in my view a formal structure will be needed if this is to have any legs. Here below is my "straw man" outlining one option for a way forward if someone is prepared to pick up the ball and run with it (not me!). Text in square brackets is explanatory. AUSTRALIAN MULTIHULL OWNERS ASSOCIATION  PURPOSE To provide a national forum to facilitate the growth, development and enhancement of the sport of Multihull Yacht sailing in Australia. FOCUS 1.  Represent at a national level, the interests of Australian multihull yacht owners in the areas of multihull racing and multihull cruising.
2.  Provide advocacy for issues pertinent to the efficient and effective development of multihull yacht sailing in Australia [Note: this may include matters such as insurance, ISAF regs. etc]
3.  Act as a single point of contact for a range of industry stakeholders including manufacturers, regulators, YA, boating industry etc.
4.  As required, assist state or regional based multihull clubs and associations with the running of local regattas, state or national championships.
5.  Provide a focal point for consideration of views concerning the development of the OMR rating system
6.  Other matters of relevance to the Association’s Purpose.  GOVERNANCE 1.  The Australian Multihull Owners Association to be established as a “not for profit” incorporated body [this can be done under various State bodies eg NSW or QLD Fair Trading, VIC Consumer Affairs and provides a number of advantages and safeguards, but also imposes certain legal obligations]
2.  National Association Members to be local multihull clubs or associations paying an annual membership fee to the National Association [fees to be collected from their own club/association members – say a nominal amount of $20 per member per annum] 
3.  Each National Association Member to nominate a maximum of two people to provide input to the National Association on behalf of their own members. The total number of nominees will form the National Association “Caucus”. 
4.  A Management Committee to be established – initially comprising three (honorary) positions: President, vice President, Secretary.
5.  Initial task for the Management Committee is to create the Association and support infrastructure including website. [may require legal and other advice/assistance]
6.  Communication between the Management Committee and Caucus conducted largely by email [An annual meeting of the Caucus is likely to be required]
7.  Communication with the broader membership to be conducted via the Association’s website
Looks good Al hope someone will pick it up and run with it [not me either].

I just have a problem with GOVERNANCE 2.
There is a Multihull Association in South Australia.
I don't know the situation in Victoria.
In QLD there is MYCQ which is a Yacht Club, not a State Multihull Association. Not all QLD multihullers are MYCQ members.
Either a QMA has to be set up before AMA or MYCQ has to become the QMA and all QLD multihullers join.
I think MYCQ still has a country membership (reduced) rate which would make that less prohibitive.
The NSW situation is even worse. RMYC is not even a Multihull Club. It is a Yacht Club with a multihull division. Even if RMYC could be state Multihull Association the cost of membership is prohibitive to anyone who does not race with RMYC. If this model does get up I would re-join MYCQ instead.
I have no idea what happens in TAS, NT and WA. There was MANTA in NT years back, I don't know if it is still going.

Why not have individual members of AMA?

Also meetings of committee need not be face to face. They could be teleconferenced or even by email.

 

Thanks Paul, re Governance 2, I was deliberately avoiding being too proscriptive about membership not worrying too much about whether formal bodies/associations exist or not (or their status). Rather just trying to  illustrate that, say, RMYC, which although it is not a "multihull club" as you say, it does  have an active multihull division, and would provide two Caucus "delegates".  Similarly, Wangi could provide two delegates as well. Or Palm Beach for that matter if the concept were to embrace OTB multis. I felt it would be too unwieldy from a management perspective to have "everybody" as members of AMOA given that they will be members via their state club/associations so long as they pay a modest fee to belong. BTW some fee will be necessary if for no other reason than to provide some basic $$$ to fund such things as start up costs and ongoing admin expenses. Yes, an AGM could be held by teleconference assuming this was acceptable under incorporation rules - which I didn't look into in any detail or examine different State requirements.

 

Cheers

Alan  



#100 rog2

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 09:28 AM

Look at it from the customers point of view - what's in this group for me?

Without any easily identifiable advantage it's difficult to see how customers (sailors owners lurkers whatever) would find the product attractive enough to commit.




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