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#101 Zorro2

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 11:00 PM

Look at it from the customers point of view - what's in this group for me?

Without any easily identifiable advantage it's difficult to see how customers (sailors owners lurkers whatever) would find the product attractive enough to commit.

 

What's in it for me?

 

Nothing, if you don't care that multihulls are becoming harder to insure - trimarans in particular - and you can't obtain any fact based evidence from the insurance industry that multis are a greater risk than any other type of boat. And if you can't insure, you can't race and the value of your investment is severely reduced.

 

Nothing, if you believe OMR is fine as it is and doesn't need any improvement or changes to accommodate foils, canting rigs etc - or just in need of a general review to satisfy yourself that it produces fair results across the entire fleet of different sizes and speeds of multis.

 

Nothing, if you don't subscribe to the view that strength in numbers can often produce negotiated outcomes superior to going alone.

 

Nothing, if you don't want to have an input into how things like national championships are organised and run. Perhaps better to let someone else carry the load and criticise from the sidelines?

 

Nothing if you are actually a monohull sailor.



#102 NUDDY

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 11:32 PM

Look at it from the customers point of view - what's in this group for me?

Without any easily identifiable advantage it's difficult to see how customers (sailors owners lurkers whatever) would find the product attractive enough to commit.

 

What's in it for me?

 

Nothing, if you don't care that multihulls are becoming harder to insure - trimarans in particular - and you can't obtain any fact based evidence from the insurance industry that multis are a greater risk than any other type of boat. And if you can't insure, you can't race and the value of your investment is severely reduced.

 

Nothing, if you believe OMR is fine as it is and doesn't need any improvement or changes to accommodate foils, canting rigs etc - or just in need of a general review to satisfy yourself that it produces fair results across the entire fleet of different sizes and speeds of multis.

 

Nothing, if you don't subscribe to the view that strength in numbers can often produce negotiated outcomes superior to going alone.

 

Nothing, if you don't want to have an input into how things like national championships are organised and run. Perhaps better to let someone else carry the load and criticise from the sidelines?

 

Nothing if you are actually a monohull sailor.

Well said Al. In a nutshell that's why we need an association.



#103 green boat

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 11:43 PM

 

Look at it from the customers point of view - what's in this group for me?

Without any easily identifiable advantage it's difficult to see how customers (sailors owners lurkers whatever) would find the product attractive enough to commit.

 

What's in it for me?

 

Nothing, if you don't care that multihulls are becoming harder to insure - trimarans in particular - and you can't obtain any fact based evidence from the insurance industry that multis are a greater risk than any other type of boat. And if you can't insure, you can't race and the value of your investment is severely reduced.

 

Nothing, if you believe OMR is fine as it is and doesn't need any improvement or changes to accommodate foils, canting rigs etc - or just in need of a general review to satisfy yourself that it produces fair results across the entire fleet of different sizes and speeds of multis.

 

Nothing, if you don't subscribe to the view that strength in numbers can often produce negotiated outcomes superior to going alone.

 

Nothing, if you don't want to have an input into how things like national championships are organised and run. Perhaps better to let someone else carry the load and criticise from the sidelines?

 

Nothing if you are actually a monohull sailor.

Well said Al. In a nutshell that's why we need an association.

 +1



#104 NUDDY

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 12:35 AM


 


Look at it from the customers point of view - what's in this group for me?
Without any easily identifiable advantage it's difficult to see how customers (sailors owners lurkers whatever) would find the product attractive enough to commit.

 
What's in it for me?
 
Nothing, if you don't care that multihulls are becoming harder to insure - trimarans in particular - and you can't obtain any fact based evidence from the insurance industry that multis are a greater risk than any other type of boat. And if you can't insure, you can't race and the value of your investment is severely reduced.
 
Nothing, if you believe OMR is fine as it is and doesn't need any improvement or changes to accommodate foils, canting rigs etc - or just in need of a general review to satisfy yourself that it produces fair results across the entire fleet of different sizes and speeds of multis.
 
Nothing, if you don't subscribe to the view that strength in numbers can often produce negotiated outcomes superior to going alone.
 
Nothing, if you don't want to have an input into how things like national championships are organised and run. Perhaps better to let someone else carry the load and criticise from the sidelines?
 
Nothing if you are actually a monohull sailor.
Well said Al. In a nutshell that's why we need an association.
 +1

Volunteering to pick it up and run with it Steve? You have plenty of time on your hands.

#105 NUDDY

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 12:56 AM


Your voting model is flawed in my view.
Why limit to owners? Crew and even interested hangers on should be entitled to a voice backed up by a vote. Apart from anything else that could find resolution of disputes between self interested owners that just cause friction.

Everyone can have a voice in discussion but when it comes to a vote if everyone can vote then one individual owner might have a point that all the other owners disagree with but he/she could get all his/her mates to join up and overwhelm the voting. Like 'branch stacking'.
I will be leaving this thread from now on as it is about the Australian Multihull Association. If anyone wants to pursue and start such an Association then go for it and I will join it unless it specifically excludes racing. I have started Multihull Racing Australia which is not a substitute for a AMA but may be absorbed by AMA if it ever happens. Meanwhile MRA, which is specifically about racing, is happening now. Anyone interested can join by emailing multihullracing@gmail.com
  

Multihull Racing Australia
 
A group for people interested in Multihull Racing and for owners of Multihulls who are interested in racing their boats.
A group for discussion of issues relevant to Multihull Racing including the Australian Multihull Championship.
By Multihulls we intend to talk about offshore and inshore multihulls but not about 'Off The Beach' catamarans.
 
Membership is free (no membership or joining fee) and I will keep a record of the names of members and the names of boatowners and the boats they own.
 
If you are interested in Multihull Racing and would like to join please email the group at:
multihullracing@gmail.com
and supply your name and the email address on which you would like to be contacted.
 
If you are a Multihull owner (or part owner) and would like to join please email the group at:
multihullracing@gmail.com
and supply your name and the email address on which you would like to be contacted and the name and description of your boat.
(for example Paul Nudd, Louie da Tri, Corsair Sprint 750 Trimaran).
 
Please pass this on to anyone you know who may be interested Multihull Racing or who owns a multihull and would be/is interested in Multihull Racing.
 
I have started a google group called multihull_racing_australia, but I am having trouble with it and some people are having trouble joining. It requires that you have or open a google account and some people are reluctant to have anything to do with google. I am hoping these issues can be resolved soon.
Meanwhile please email multihullracing@gmail.com and lets at least get a membership list started.


So here's my minimalist model for a racing owners and interested parties group. Not an Association or substitute for such. May be possibly an arm of the association if one ever gets up.

Email multihullracing@gmail if you want to be in it.

#106 green boat

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 01:02 AM

 

 


 


Look at it from the customers point of view - what's in this group for me?
Without any easily identifiable advantage it's difficult to see how customers (sailors owners lurkers whatever) would find the product attractive enough to commit.

 
What's in it for me?
 
Nothing, if you don't care that multihulls are becoming harder to insure - trimarans in particular - and you can't obtain any fact based evidence from the insurance industry that multis are a greater risk than any other type of boat. And if you can't insure, you can't race and the value of your investment is severely reduced.
 
Nothing, if you believe OMR is fine as it is and doesn't need any improvement or changes to accommodate foils, canting rigs etc - or just in need of a general review to satisfy yourself that it produces fair results across the entire fleet of different sizes and speeds of multis.
 
Nothing, if you don't subscribe to the view that strength in numbers can often produce negotiated outcomes superior to going alone.
 
Nothing, if you don't want to have an input into how things like national championships are organised and run. Perhaps better to let someone else carry the load and criticise from the sidelines?
 
Nothing if you are actually a monohull sailor.
Well said Al. In a nutshell that's why we need an association.
 +1

Volunteering to pick it up and run with it Steve? You have plenty of time on your hands.

A smiley face is usually inserted after a comment like that        eg    :)



#107 Fuller

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 10:56 AM

OK peoples, finely we have made a little traction in this thread. I have read many, agreed with some and not with others.

This is my proposal and I think a positive way to move forward.

 

We form an executive to work through key issues we are facing and concerned about and look at the best way to set something up, whatever that may be?

The executive will be made up from 6 people representing the States around Oz.

 

Vict- me. unless someone else would like to do it??

S.A.- Rob Remilton.

NSW- ????

QLD- Jeff Cruise? Peter Hackett?

FNQ-????

& one more.????

 

Lots of other issues need to be sorted out, however, working with an select group is a lot easier than trying to chair a meeting with 60 people pushing their own agendas at the Nationals.

 

Food for thought! 

 

So guys what do you think? 



#108 Zorro2

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 12:16 AM

OK peoples, finely we have made a little traction in this thread. I have read many, agreed with some and not with others.

This is my proposal and I think a positive way to move forward.

 

We form an executive to work through key issues we are facing and concerned about and look at the best way to set something up, whatever that may be?

The executive will be made up from 6 people representing the States around Oz.

 

Vict- me. unless someone else would like to do it??

S.A.- Rob Remilton.

NSW- ????

QLD- Jeff Cruise? Peter Hackett?

FNQ-????

& one more.????

 

Lots of other issues need to be sorted out, however, working with an select group is a lot easier than trying to chair a meeting with 60 people pushing their own agendas at the Nationals.

 

Food for thought! 

 

So guys what do you think? 

Fuller, there is plenty of in principle support for this. I agree with the establishment of a small group to get this going. I'll help. Please email me to discuss further.

 

Cheers



#109 NUDDY

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 03:18 AM

OK peoples, finely we have made a little traction in this thread. I have read many, agreed with some and not with others.
This is my proposal and I think a positive way to move forward.
 
We form an executive to work through key issues we are facing and concerned about and look at the best way to set something up, whatever that may be?
The executive will be made up from 6 people representing the States around Oz.
 
Vict- me. unless someone else would like to do it??
S.A.- Rob Remilton.
NSW- ????
QLD- Jeff Cruise? Peter Hackett?
FNQ-????
& one more.????
 
Lots of other issues need to be sorted out, however, working with an select group is a lot easier than trying to chair a meeting with 60 people pushing their own agendas at the Nationals.
 
Food for thought! 
 
So guys what do you think? 


In the day of 21st Century communications I see no need to use 19th Century methods.
It makes no sense to try to chair a meeting with 60 people pushing their own agendas.
Similarly it makes no sense to attempt to do it at a nationals where not all interested parties may be present.

However I am not in favour of a 'select group', either elected or unelected, taking on the responsibility of guessing the opinions and 'agendas' of all interested parties.

With today's communications there is no reason to deny any interested party the opportunity to communicate his/ her 'agenda' and opinion, the opportunity to participate in the discussion and to play a part in the decision making.

To afford these opportunities to all interested parties is what I am trying to do with the MRAA for all those interested in racing, I do not want to dilute the purpose by adding any other interests or agendas which are not directly pertaining to racing.

I would suggest that something similar could be done an all encompassing AMA that would include those interested in racing and those with no interest in racing and could deal with all issues pertaining to Multihulls and could include OTB cat people if they wish to be in it.

Of course it may be easier and more convenient to stay with 19th Century methods and have the 'select group' decide what the issues are, work through them, and come down with a solution from on high.
That's fine as long as it is not controlling my racing.

If the AMA does get up and running I will be quite happy for it to take over the racing side of things, as a sub-group or whatever, as long as it remains 'democratic'. However I think the racing side needs urgent action and I have started taking that action.

#110 Corley_

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 05:14 AM

Sounds like a good start.  I'm happy to help out if required. 

 

OK peoples, finely we have made a little traction in this thread. I have read many, agreed with some and not with others.

This is my proposal and I think a positive way to move forward.

 

We form an executive to work through key issues we are facing and concerned about and look at the best way to set something up, whatever that may be?

The executive will be made up from 6 people representing the States around Oz.

 

Vict- me. unless someone else would like to do it??

S.A.- Rob Remilton.

NSW- ????

QLD- Jeff Cruise? Peter Hackett?

FNQ-????

& one more.????

 

Lots of other issues need to be sorted out, however, working with an select group is a lot easier than trying to chair a meeting with 60 people pushing their own agendas at the Nationals.

 

Food for thought! 

 

So guys what do you think? 



#111 Peccadillo

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:02 AM

Sounds good, Fuller. Maybe Terry Travers for Tasmanian rep?



#112 Fuller

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:03 AM

Look at it from the customers point of view - what's in this group for me?

Without any easily identifiable advantage it's difficult to see how customers (sailors owners lurkers whatever) would find the product attractive enough to commit.

 

What's in it for me?

 

Nothing, if you don't care that multihulls are becoming harder to insure - trimarans in particular - and you can't obtain any fact based evidence from the insurance industry that multis are a greater risk than any other type of boat. And if you can't insure, you can't race and the value of your investment is severely reduced.

 

Nothing, if you believe OMR is fine as it is and doesn't need any improvement or changes to accommodate foils, canting rigs etc - or just in need of a general review to satisfy yourself that it produces fair results across the entire fleet of different sizes and speeds of multis.

 

Nothing, if you don't subscribe to the view that strength in numbers can often produce negotiated outcomes superior to going alone.

 

Nothing, if you don't want to have an input into how things like national championships are organised and run. Perhaps better to let someone else carry the load and criticise from the sidelines?

 

Nothing if you are actually a monohull sailor.

+1 hopefully we can make some forward traction on this matter. Up at Airlie now looking forward to sailing and discussing with the guys.



#113 trimariner

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 11:45 PM

A little piece of history for you all. Way way way back, when all the Multihull clubs were Trimaran clubs, this topic was discussed and decided on! Alf Stessel, yep Stessel alloy boats Alf, He was an early Trimaran owner and committee member was elected the 1'st national delegate by the TYCV. The idea was the same as now, To the best of my recollection nothing much eventuated but it was going to be AYF affiliated. I'm talking late 60's. Hope this time we do it better. I would like to contribute when back in Oz. Good luck all, cheers.



#114 NUDDY

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 12:39 PM

Discussion on Eligibility Ruled for Multihull Racing is going on now at MRAA

 

to participate please email multihullracing@gmail.com with your name, preferred email address and details of your boat (if any).



#115 NUDDY

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 01:11 PM

https://www.facebook...0014949?fref=ts



#116 redreuben

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 01:36 PM

From what I can see the Western Australian Multihull Association has imploded due to lack of interest.



#117 NUDDY

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 11:18 PM

From what I can see the Western Australian Multihull Association has imploded due to lack of interest.

Same happened to NSW about 20 yrs ago.



#118 redreuben

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:05 AM

Usual story it seems, the interest is there if someone else does all the work.



#119 Corley_

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:20 AM

In the latest Multihull World it mentions that Chris Smith best known for his trimaran the Bucc 40 "Wings of Fantasy" which cruised around Australia has passed away he was an active member of the WA Multihull Association many years ago.  I recall seeing Wings moored at Launceston Marina about 5 years ago I regret now not chasing up Chris for a chat.



#120 NUDDY

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:47 AM

Usual story it seems, the interest is there if someone else does all the work.

In NSW there was a core of us doing all the work but still it died. I think the death blow was joining AYF/YA.



#121 redreuben

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 01:37 AM

Nuddy as I understand it (from a former member) there was a core here that did all the work for years then as they retired/moved on, got sick of doing it all, no one stepped up and game over.



#122 NUDDY

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 08:03 AM

Nuddy as I understand it (from a former member) there was a core here that did all the work for years then as they retired/moved on, got sick of doing it all, no one stepped up and game over.

that doesn't fit with my memory. We used to have monthly meetings at Manly Yacht Club. People came from all over greater Sydney and beyond for those monthly meetings. I was a member right back from my SeaWind 24 days. We had guest speakers most months. I remember Rob Denney coming to tell us about Duracore when he worked for Arnie. The marine electrics guy was very popular. And the Nanni Diesel guy.
I used to travel all over Sydney for committee meetings, one time I drove from Brooklyn to Port Hacking, no email back then.
The committee was still going strong but the attendance at monthly meetings and weekend get togethers dropped right off and it became pointless to continue with such small numbers.
I think it had a lot to do with Multihulls becoming accepted by 'mainstream' yacht clubs. In the heyday of the MYANSW most of the yacht clubs would have nothing to do with Multihulls so we banded together in our autonomous association. The association became redundant when the 'mainstream' accepted Multihulls (and multihull owners accepted the mainstream and became 2nd class citizens).

#123 NUDDY

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 12:18 AM

The Multihull Yacht Association of South Australia at a meeting at the 2014 National Championships in Port Lincoln are going to invite the multihull yacht sailors of Australia to consider the following proposals as listed below.

1.The formation and incorporation of the Multihull Yacht Association of Australia.

2.That the meeting appoint a joint State steering committee to achieve the above.

3.That this Association once formed, consider the following issues.
•The coordination and planning of a 4 year program for the National Multihull Championships.

•Insurance issues concerning Multihull Yacht Association of South Australiahull.

•Safety Issues with regards both racing and cruising.

•Affiliation with Yachting Australia as an association.

•And any other issues concerning the promotion and development of multihull sailing in Australia.

Please also note that at out November committee meeting Mr Rob Remilton was unanimously appointed as our nomination for such a steering committee.

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

 

Why not just drop the S out of MYASA and invite everyone to join that? I would join. State borders are redundant.



#124 NUDDY

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 02:33 PM

National Association not needed. Decisions have been made. Next 2 nationals + one interim regatta have been decided.
I hear they had a meeting but I could not get there as I had to do an airport run.
Seems there is a de-facto national Ass'n in South Aust.
Not complaining, great that it is all happening.
Must look into joining MYASA

#125 rog2

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 10:32 PM

MYASA cater to SA boats only.

If they were to become a National Body, defacto or otherwise, they wouldn't be MYASA.

#126 NUDDY

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 12:48 PM

MYASA cater to SA boats only.
If they were to become a National Body, defacto or otherwise, they wouldn't be MYASA.

Are you telling me they won't let me join?

#127 NUDDY

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 12:50 PM

MYASA cater to SA boats only.
If they were to become a National Body, defacto or otherwise, they wouldn't be MYASA.

What is an SA boat?

#128 Goldfinger01

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 01:08 PM

MYASA cater to SA boats only.
If they were to become a National Body, defacto or otherwise, they wouldn't be MYASA.



And where did you get that from. I think MYASA would welcome members from anywhere.

#129 rog2

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 06:38 PM

At present MYASA are limited to SA owners of Multihulls

https://www.facebook...234679800014949

#130 NUDDY

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 01:24 PM

Define South Australian. I thought we were all Australians. I live in NSW right now but have lived in WA, SA, Vic, Qld and SA.
Would I have to resign if I moved?
And owners? I'm pretty sure there are members who are not owners.

I think it is probably open to anyone interested enough to join.
I'll give it a try.

#131 atefooterz

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 04:00 PM

^ LoLz Nuddy do you consider yourself a Sydneysider in Wangi? In this day & age a geographical tag should not hinder any National Association conduct.



#132 NUDDY

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:56 PM

^ LoLz Nuddy do you consider yourself a Sydneysider in Wangi? In this day & age a geographical tag should not hinder any National Association conduct.

No, definitely not a Sydneysider at Wangi. I did when I lived in Sydney's Eastern Suburbs and sailed from Woollahra Sailing Club would say I was from Sydney.
Today I say I am an Australian currently settled in Wangi on Lake Macquarie, about 100km north of Sydney.
In this day and age State Borders re an irrelevant relic from history.
To say that residents from Cape York to Coolangatta are all the same, but totally different from residents of Tweed Heads is curious to say the least.
We could just as well divide the country along the Tropic of Capricorn. North Australia and South Australia. Then I could join MYASA BUT Mal Richardson couldn't.
If there is an argument for local administration (of anything) how do we justify Broome and Albany being under the same local admin?
MYASA is the only Association we have. Why not just drop the S?

#133 NUDDY

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 03:02 AM

Seems that the 'Victorian' nationals is being heavily influenced by people outside of Victoria.


That's because there is no 'Victorian Nationals' there are only Australian Nationals. The next Australian Nationals are scheduled to be held at Geelong. The following at Wangi. After that who knows. Doesn't matter what state they are in.
The 'de-facto' National Association has decided on the next two venues.
I'm joining MYASA because it is our 'de-facto' Multihull Yacht Association of Australia.


#134 Fuller

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:25 AM

 

Seems that the 'Victorian' nationals is being heavily influenced by people outside of Victoria.


That's because there is no 'Victorian Nationals' there are only Australian Nationals. The next Australian Nationals are scheduled to be held at Geelong. The following at Wangi. After that who knows. Doesn't matter what state they are in.
The 'de-facto' National Association has decided on the next two venues.
I'm joining MYASA because it is our 'de-facto' Multihull Yacht Association of Australia.

MYASA is not the defacto anything. They 're a state association just like the MYCV which I'm a member.



#135 NUDDY

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 02:16 PM

MYCV is not a state association, it's just a yacht club, just like any other yacht club.
MYASA was set up as a state association but is doing the job of a National Multihull Association, thus de-facto.

#136 NUDDY

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 12:22 PM

Ok I am talking from a position of some ignorance. I was not able to attend the meeting, to which I was invited, called by the MYASA to form a national body for the administration of multihull class yachts, on Tuesday 25th February. I have not heard anything about what happened at that meeting or even if anyone turned up. I did expect an announcement about the outcome but there was none. Instead at the preso the venues for the next 2 Multihull Nationals were announced from MYASA.
I can only conclude that no National Body was formed and that MYASA has taken on the function of that body.



#137 auscat

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 09:58 PM

So Nuddy,you are saying that a lot of your current rants are based on the content of a meeting you didn't attend and have no idea on the outcome?

Fair dinkum mate its time to step away from the keyboard and have a look at yourself. 



#138 rog2

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 06:36 AM

Be nice.




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