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Bigger Boom for an IOR design


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#1 krazymiked

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:40 AM

I am in the process of purchasing a 1983 S&S Catalina 38. Through all my research on the boat I keep hearing about their down wind sailing performance and have seen a few articles about extending the boom and installing a bigger main sail to help eleviate weather helm and improve down wind performance. Esentially, balancing the boat. What are your thoughts on this? Keep in mind that I have not sailed this boat yet and may find no issues with it what so ever but, I would like to hear some thoughts on the subject all the same. Also wondering if this will increase the overall performance of the boat?



#2 charisma94

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 02:36 AM

A longer boom and bigger mainsail wont "help eleviate" weather helm... quite the opposite in fact.



#3 Heavy Metal

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 04:49 AM

What he ^^ said, if your getting weather helm, ease the main, its got very little to do with an IOR-ish design.



#4 lydia

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 05:03 AM

Try a longer Spin pole.

It is the IOR ish desigbn in a sense if you don't keep it upright.

#5 Caca Cabeza

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 05:07 AM

Agreed. Moving the CE aft will not help upwind. Downwind, the IOR designs were made to look on paper like they were unstable and 'roll-polly'. In actuality, the rule underestimated reality.

 

As someone one wrote: You put the 3/4 up, you blow the 3/4 out, you put the 1.5 up and blow the fucker out. You do the ocean pokey and you wipe the fucker out that's what it's all about. (sung to the hokey pokey tune)



#6 Life Buoy 15

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 05:15 AM

Don't listen to these guys. A big boom will Improve an IOR boat owners Life. Open all burners on the gas stove, close all the hatches and toss a match down the companionway. The bigger the boom the better.

#7 Mark K

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 07:10 AM

 If somebody switched out an old blown out dacron main for a brand new main with their longer boom, and they probably did...



#8 silent bob

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 03:44 PM

Get a Blooper!

#9 Somebody Else

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 03:47 PM

Get a Blooper!

 

Get a Blumpkin!  derp.png



#10 SloopJonB

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 05:44 PM

Just don't try to fly that huge spinnaker in 30 knots and your problems will go away. Most of the IOR horror stories come from boats that were being pushed to crazy levels by nutso racers. The IOR boats that I've ownd and/or sailed were some of the sweetest and fastest boats I've ever been on - when sailed with a modicum of seamanship replacing the hair on fire attitudes.

 

True, they won't hold a candle to a modern race boat but who would enter a 6 wheel Tyrrell in a contemporary F1 race?



#11 House Salad

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 06:39 PM

There are photos of the S&S Catalina 38's with longer booms for sure. I wonder if any of them had the rig moved forward. You want to do this because, as previously mentioned you need to move the center of effort forward. With a bigger main you will likely want to use genoas with slightly less overlap. I would talk to a Naval Architect that's done lots of IOR revisions. Jim Taylor has done a bunch of S&S Swans very successfully.

 

While you have your checkbook out, have a look at the underbody (which is what Taylor specializes in - see: http://www.tayloryac...p#optimizations). The Catalina 38's (by S&S) came out of the same molds as the Yankee 38, If I remember correctly. The Yankee 38 had a full skeg in front of the rudder. The Catalinas had a semi-spade rudder - the rudder is at the bottom of the bustle. I would think the boat will be more controllable with a full spade. This will be a major rework and require beaucoup semolians. You may want to play with the underbody first.



#12 Matt B

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:38 PM

How long a boom you want?

  I have an E = 17', Hall spars boom thaqt I'd like to sell.  And yes, I put it in the classifieds.



#13 some dude

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 09:51 PM

There are photos of the S&S Catalina 38's with longer booms for sure. I wonder if any of them had the rig moved forward. You want to do this because, as previously mentioned you need to move the center of effort forward. With a bigger main you will likely want to use genoas with slightly less overlap. I would talk to a Naval Architect that's done lots of IOR revisions. Jim Taylor has done a bunch of S&S Swans very successfully.

 

While you have your checkbook out, have a look at the underbody (which is what Taylor specializes in - see: http://www.tayloryac...p#optimizations). The Catalina 38's (by S&S) came out of the same molds as the Yankee 38, If I remember correctly. The Yankee 38 had a full skeg in front of the rudder. The Catalinas had a semi-spade rudder - the rudder is at the bottom of the bustle. I would think the boat will be more controllable with a full spade. This will be a major rework and require beaucoup semolians. You may want to play with the underbody first.

Or just go buy a Yankee 38.  Yes, same hull.  Much better build and much more comfy



#14 Life Buoy 15

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:04 PM

Boom, boom, boom,
Lets go back to my room,
Where we can do it all night,
And I will make you feel right.......

#15 SloopJonB

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:05 PM

There are photos of the S&S Catalina 38's with longer booms for sure. I wonder if any of them had the rig moved forward. You want to do this because, as previously mentioned you need to move the center of effort forward. With a bigger main you will likely want to use genoas with slightly less overlap. I would talk to a Naval Architect that's done lots of IOR revisions. Jim Taylor has done a bunch of S&S Swans very successfully.

 

While you have your checkbook out, have a look at the underbody (which is what Taylor specializes in - see: http://www.tayloryac...p#optimizations). The Catalina 38's (by S&S) came out of the same molds as the Yankee 38, If I remember correctly. The Yankee 38 had a full skeg in front of the rudder. The Catalinas had a semi-spade rudder - the rudder is at the bottom of the bustle. I would think the boat will be more controllable with a full spade. This will be a major rework and require beaucoup semolians. You may want to play with the underbody first.

Or just go buy a Yankee 38.  Yes, same hull.  Much better build and much more comfy

Maybe if you're going offshore. The Yankee has an old style S&S offshore pilot berth layout - the same as the Swan 38, Tartan 41 etc.

 

Not exactly palatial dockside living.

 

The Yankee also has a smaller rig but IMHO is a LOT better looking with that wedge/flush deck.



#16 some dude

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:13 PM

 

There are photos of the S&S Catalina 38's with longer booms for sure. I wonder if any of them had the rig moved forward. You want to do this because, as previously mentioned you need to move the center of effort forward. With a bigger main you will likely want to use genoas with slightly less overlap. I would talk to a Naval Architect that's done lots of IOR revisions. Jim Taylor has done a bunch of S&S Swans very successfully.

 

While you have your checkbook out, have a look at the underbody (which is what Taylor specializes in - see: http://www.tayloryac...p#optimizations). The Catalina 38's (by S&S) came out of the same molds as the Yankee 38, If I remember correctly. The Yankee 38 had a full skeg in front of the rudder. The Catalinas had a semi-spade rudder - the rudder is at the bottom of the bustle. I would think the boat will be more controllable with a full spade. This will be a major rework and require beaucoup semolians. You may want to play with the underbody first.

Or just go buy a Yankee 38.  Yes, same hull.  Much better build and much more comfy

Maybe if you're going offshore. The Yankee has an old style S&S offshore pilot berth layout - the same as the Swan 38, Tartan 41 etc.

 

Not exactly palatial dockside living.

 

The Yankee also has a smaller rig but IMHO is a LOT better looking with that wedge/flush deck.

 

 

IIRC the pilot berths pull out for more room.  If doing it in the main salon isn't your thang, the forepeak was just sail bins-you could make a nice stabbin' cabin up there.



#17 Schnick

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 07:03 AM

Not a 38 but I added 2 feet to the boom on my Catalina 36 and it is like a whole new boat upwind. I'd do it.

#18 saltyokie

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 08:25 AM

I have raced and cruised my Catalina 38 for twenty years and love the boat. If I had an unlimited budget I would trade it for a J-122 but mostly because of the ease of access with the open stern. Another 38 added 18 inches to the boom and got nailed 6 seconds by PHRF. We added all the roach we could to our main and regularly ate his lunch. I have a lot of miles under my keel s a crew member on a Yankee 38 as well. Personally, I would take the C-38 every time. The Yankee 38 interior is great for overnight racing and I have done a lot of that on the Y38 including LA San Nickolas Island. The Y38 never saw a wave it could not go under. The 6 inch seat backs in the cockpit are very uncomfortable after an hour or two. The C-38 has a great cockpit. WE have no trouble racing our C-38 downwind - we got rid of the spinny pole and the sem chutes and added a Seldon retractable sprit - out 42 inches beyond the head stay and a Karver Top Down Furler. Rod tells me I love this. The build quality of the C-38 hull and interior is first class. The factory tended to use cheap hardware. Macavity has added 3 Harken electric winches with 12 switches, a Harken traveler, Harken adjustable genoa leads and all modern halyards. Our new rudder is eliptical and provides great control. I use a 3 bladed Maxi Prop for great speed, reversing and stopping. Before you write any checks, come to Santa Barbara and check us out - we will take you sailing and let you bring in our 155 genoa with one finger. We changed our bow pulpit to one like the J-120 for the assy chutes.



#19 Gallagher

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 05:35 AM

Don't listen to these guys. A big boom will Improve an IOR boat owners Life. Open all burners on the gas stove, close all the hatches and toss a match down the companionway. The bigger the boom the better.


Haha! Classic....and I own a Peterson 35 so I'm allowed to laugh!

#20 opa1

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 01:11 PM

PRICELESS.

Don't listen to these guys. A big boom will Improve an IOR boat owners Life. Open all burners on the gas stove, close all the hatches and toss a match down the companionway. The bigger the boom the better.



#21 Gallagher

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 03:59 AM

Wanna hear a classic mod? Instead of lengthening the BOOM! on our boat to get a little more main, they lowered the BOOM! To about a foot above the cabin....if I had a buck for every minute I spent cleaning blood and hair off of that thing....

#22 pseudo

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 07:18 PM

I have raced and cruised my Catalina 38 for twenty years and love the boat. If I had an unlimited budget I would trade it for a J-122 but mostly because of the ease of access with the open stern. Another 38 added 18 inches to the boom and got nailed 6 seconds by PHRF. We added all the roach we could to our main and regularly ate his lunch. I have a lot of miles under my keel s a crew member on a Yankee 38 as well. Personally, I would take the C-38 every time. The Yankee 38 interior is great for overnight racing and I have done a lot of that on the Y38 including LA San Nickolas Island. The Y38 never saw a wave it could not go under. The 6 inch seat backs in the cockpit are very uncomfortable after an hour or two. The C-38 has a great cockpit. WE have no trouble racing our C-38 downwind - we got rid of the spinny pole and the sem chutes and added a Seldon retractable sprit - out 42 inches beyond the head stay and a Karver Top Down Furler. Rod tells me I love this. The build quality of the C-38 hull and interior is first class. The factory tended to use cheap hardware. Macavity has added 3 Harken electric winches with 12 switches, a Harken traveler, Harken adjustable genoa leads and all modern halyards. Our new rudder is eliptical and provides great control. I use a 3 bladed Maxi Prop for great speed, reversing and stopping. Before you write any checks, come to Santa Barbara and check us out - we will take you sailing and let you bring in our 155 genoa with one finger. We changed our bow pulpit to one like the J-120 for the assy chutes.

How true.






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