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What should I get !!?? Dare I say, 105?

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#1 crazyhorse

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 07:38 PM

Man, it's been a loooooong time since I've posted on SA.

 

So here's the gig .......... Sport boat guy at heart, no doubt and nothing  really even compares.........buuuuuuut, the dynamics have changed for me.  Simply put.......I had the "brilliant" idea of leaving my coushy job and starting my own business 7 years ago......at the time, the wifey had three small kids slinging from one arm and a mortgage bill glued constantly to the other.  Again, "brilliant".  Some people buy exotic toys when they turn 40....... I spent my shit on a manufacturing facility and on supporting the fam damily for the first 2 years (fondly refered to as our "lean" years).

 

Needless to say, I sold the Mumm during that initial 2 yr period.......ya know, bein' responsible and shit.   I Spent the last 5 years having sex with the centerboard trunk on my bud's Lightning.  To say I'm itchin' to jump back into the game would be an understatement.......think poision oak type scratch.

 

The problemo........Now that we've been a bit successful, grew the business, and made some scratch back......there's a little room in the budget to appease the need.  BUT, since the wife never set foot on the Mumm (spending those years barefoot and breastfeeding while I was playing), I've only got a green light for something the fam can enjoy and light cruise with (read: I don't want a divorce).

 

Seriously though, the ankle biters have grown and it's a perfect time to expand their sailing horizons from the Opti's and 420's.  But what to get in the 35 ft range with a budget of about $55 - $ 70k !!??  In all honesty, this is probably a 5 year gig before getting back into the sport boat game........but I don't want to sacrifice now and would like something that's somewhat fun, stable for the kids,  hopefully has a OD fleet, and the ability to cruise up to Newport and Block with the fam.  Folks, we're not talking trans-atlantic........just basic gunkholing in the sound and New England.

 

I know they take a lotta shit ,but it really does lead to one boat, no? .....ahem..... the J-105 (which has a great fleet in our area(s)).  Is there anything else anyone can recommend.....or a boat I'm not seeing that can fit the bill?

 

Another option would be to buy an older, cruisier boat for under $20k to hang on the mooring and get a J-70 for the racing fix.

 

Thoughts? 

 

CH



#2 Total Slacker

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 07:50 PM

Express 34

#3 czo79

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:36 PM

i think you already know the answer.  You could probably do this and you'll have more fun and your family will be more comfortable.

Another option would be to buy an older, cruisier boat for under $20k to hang on the mooring and get a J-70 for the racing fix.

 

Thoughts? 

 

CH



#4 crazyhorse

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:40 PM

I know czo ........ I have a feelin' the consensus will share that view as well.  Shit, that conversation's gonna suck though...."Honey, I know we're talking about buying 1 boat, but......uhhhh...."   Which will most likely lead to a few, back pain filled nights on the couch.

 

So if peeps chose my second option......the next question is what's a good 'ol cruiser (or Wed night PHRF boat) for $20 k or less that's comfy and not a pig? ....... and something the wife and I can easily double-hand for some eveing cocktail cruises? (another reason I was thinking 105)



#5 some dude

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 10:19 PM

I know czo ........ I have a feelin' the consensus will share that view as well.  Shit, that conversation's gonna suck though...."Honey, I know we're talking about buying 1 boat, but......uhhhh...."   Which will most likely lead to a few, back pain filled nights on the couch.
 
So if peeps chose my second option......the next question is what's a good 'ol cruiser (or Wed night PHRF boat) for $20 k or less that's comfy and not a pig? ....... and something the wife and I can easily double-hand for some eveing cocktail cruises? (another reason I was thinking 105)


Ranger 33 or Ericson 35 or some such 70's boat. Good cruiser and you can take the whole fam on the beer cans. Then a real race boat for the other stuff.

#6 peculier

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 12:08 AM

Another option would be to buy an older, cruisier boat for under $20k to hang on the mooring and get a J-70 for the racing fix.

 

The J/70 is awesome, I have one. But that blows close to $60K of your budget (sails, taxes, title, registration, trailer, electronics, bags, motor, shipping etc.). 

 

Also: consider the multiple boat penalty. Two boats of that size means twice as much time/money to maintain, fix, pimp out etc. I don't know enough about the 105 to make a strong claim for it, but it appears to be an excellent tradeoff for your situation in performance v. cruising (and resale value). 



#7 us7070

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 12:24 AM

get 1/2 a J/70..., and a cruising boat

 

cruising a J/105 sounds like torture

 

if you are cruising, and doing other activities with a young family..., you won't have time for a full J/70 racing schedule.

 

find a partner for the J/70..., and get a J/34C or a Sabre 34, or something like that.



#8 crazyhorse

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 02:12 PM

Dang.......I didn't even realize the all-in cost of the J70 was that high.  And I hate partnering........Plus the wife conversation this morning of owning 2 boats turned my breakfast into an "interesting" half-hour to say the least.......especially when considering the boyz would get the hot, brand new sporty, and the fam would get the "classic" beater that smells like a locker room.

 

Needless to say......................I'm back at my original plan......one boat.



#9 6924

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 02:29 PM

Get a very inexpensive PHRF 'racer' - this list is as good as any:

 

http://www.sailingwo...to-fit-a-budget

 

Then, when the time comes the Viper, Ultimate 20, or J/70 will be an easy add on.

 



#10 Wet Spreaders

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 02:33 PM

Don't even try cruising with kids on a J105 - your wife will kill you.

 

If you want to race OD and do a few overnighters with the kids, then the 105 is ideal. If you're going for PHRF and family stuff, get something fitted out for cruising.



#11 zerothehero

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 02:45 PM

inexpensive older cruiser and a Viper?  Trailer sail the Viper (lowers cost) and cruise the pig.  Viper for Charleston and other big weekends.



#12 Kent H

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 02:49 PM

ditto with Wet Spreaders

 

The fact that you are asking us and not your wife is a bad sign.   What works for her?   Two boat Dads are happy Dads!    Race whatever one design is cheap and close.  Buy a family boat power or sail.   Or better yet a one bedroom condo and convert the closets to bunk beds for the kids.  Second home deduction.   A cruising boat is just as bad if it is on a mooring and you leave the wife with three kids trapped on a 30 foot boat with no place to go. 

 

This might work if both you and your wife are racers.  If not ....no.  very bad idea. 



#13 MSA

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 02:49 PM

Mate, show her some pictures and get the first one she says yes too... Don't argue, just do and wait for the Sporty.. Maybe at that stage the 2 boat deal might get past her..



#14 Snaggletooth

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 03:12 PM

Thoughts? 

 

CH

 

J35 or J44 fittes the bille niceley, fast confey crusiseres.



#15 crazyhorse

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 05:21 PM

Yeah Snags ....... I originally thought the same damn thing........get a J35.  I owned one (a 1988) before I had the Mumm.  What a beautiful boat....and that year had the extra teak down below.....so really nice and comfy.  Two big probbies ......though you can get them cheap, they're beat to shit now, and I mean beat........and I really don't want a "project" boat.  Also, hard boat to doublehand for a cocktail cruise with the wifey.  And to race......shiiiiiiiiiiiit, I needed like 10.  Kicked azz in that boat though and won some decent hardware.  And what a solid boat........got caught in a some major squalls and the 35 just laughed at 'em. 

 

Geeze, are the 105's really that bad and uncomfy?  It's really only a 4 - 5 yr deal.........and there's only 5 of us......wife, a 14, a 12, and 9...............or is that 3 too many for a 105 already :D?

 

As I said before......she's not going for the 2 boat deal at the moment ala this morning's "discussion"......so I need somethin to fit the bill.......until she's comfy with the idea........then budget will dictate which sport class to get into.  Trust me.......after these past 6-7 years, I'm surprised she's actually going for the idea.........so I need to sieze the opportunity and get somethin' decent......just in case I am stuck with it for a few years.  Last thing I want is to be stuck in some PHRF beater for 5 years, ya know? .................At the least, the 105 class is no jike when it comes to numbers.....that's a plus I think.

 

CH



#16 Schnick

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 06:06 PM

If you like J boats a J/36 could fit the bill pretty well, if you find a non-project.  105 does not have room for weekending overnight with 3 kids.

 

The Schock 35 is a great combination of J/35 performance and a shitload of bunks with standing headroom where it matters.  But they are not so common on the east coast.

 

Any of these boats would be totally capable with just a 100% jib for family cruising and daysailing so they end up no harder to deal with then the 105 if that is your use profile.



#17 Mastadon

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 09:01 PM

J/92. Not an overnight boat for 5, but comfy enough for day sailing, and a good place for the 14- yearold to learn bow.

#18 bloodshot

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 09:46 PM

J/30 and a Viper and you might even have $$ left over for new sails.



#19 bhyde

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 09:50 PM

Here's a crazy idea. How 'bout a Corsair F-27? It has the performance of your 'ol Mumm30 and can be easily cruised with the wife and kiddies. Perfect for getting into all those places a 6' draft boat can't go or just driving up on the beach. 

 

Leave it in the water during sailing season, and when winter comes, put it back on the trailer and store it in a shed (or at home if you have the room) without all the boatyard hassles. And a nice used one goes for $35K - $50K depending on condition and equipment.

 

Just an idea.



#20 Life Buoy 15

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 10:04 PM

Have you considered building yourself a Cat?

 

post-99017-0-28892700-1369686410_thumb.p



#21 bhyde

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 12:13 AM

Have you considered building yourself a Cat?

 

post-99017-0-28892700-1369686410_thumb.p

 

A cat that size must go for, what, $6,000,000? Offer him $5M. I understand the sails have never been used. 



#22 Gouvernail

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 01:20 AM

My guess is, I would choose a combination of boats to own and rent or borrow a boat for that occasional cruise. Maybe there is a fellow with the right cruiser who would simply LOVE to team up with you on that J-70 or whatever else is being raced locally ... And all I gotta do is loan you my big boat once on a while??? Greeraaat I never use it much anyway.

As long as I am spewing advice...
Were I a Dad with kids that age I would absolutely want to own a multi boat trailer and a giant simple passenger van. I would be sailing WITH them and racing against them and traveling all over the North East to do so
This summer there is a Canadian Laser nationals, and CORK for the "sail with the best in huge fleets" experience and there are two or five weekend events within five hundred miles EVERY weekend from May to September EVERY year where you can sail and they can sail and there simply is no more fun thing to do than sail with the kids.
And you can bring them along on the keelboat a lot too but... You gotta know "sailing Dad's boat " is not "sailing my boat" and if you want those kids
To be there playing nearby or with you for the next forty years, you simply must get them into saing their own fabulously fun toys.

I sail in a club in central Texas where on any given Wednesday there are a frw guys and gals out most of the weeks who did what I am trying to sell you when they were kids... They had their own toys and regularly sailed on the adult as well as the junior fleets and they sailed on their parent's boats too...,
Doug, Scott, Matt, Kevin, David, Newer David, John, Fred, Jim, Sarah, Kim, Linda, Eric, Annie, another John, Ryan, Jon, Charlie, Brett, and there are more whose recollection will cause me to slap my forehead
Their patents got them into saing in the fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties, and nineties . And now we all play with each other and those parents who are still alive play too!!!
You could hit Sandusky, Annapolis, Chautauqua lake, buffalo Canoe Club, Cedar Point in CT, Hyannis, Halifax, Glendale Sailing Club, Erie, Toms River and oodles of other fabulous places without ever missing work or school on Monday .

You could sail on Dad's sport boat twenty five times a year and still easily hit all the mentioned places in three years

I would excitedly play the dad or any kid role in that road trip sailing movie!!!!!

If they read in the back seat there is probably sufficient travel time to produce some valedictorians

No I Won't get off the damn soap box!!!!

Everybody needs to know this stuff. !!!!

#23 bhyde

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 02:38 AM

Gouv, buddy, the meds are on the nightstand right next to you. Focus man! 

 

 

Crap we're losing him...



#24 phillysailor

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 02:40 AM

I was gonna say the same thing Gouvernail just did.

 

Buy the little rocket, possibly one that you can trailer to great competitions or just fun places to visit and sail with the family. Save a lot on the front end, and the yearly maintenance costs are reduced to the point that you can easily afford to stay at a nice hotel or B&B while on trips: the family is well rested and easily fed, & comfortably berthed. Then, do a week or two each year sailing something comfy where its sunny.

 

Two boats sounds like a HUGE (and unsatisfying) investment of time and effort. Especially if one of them is destined to be a fixer-upper. 



#25 Gouvernail

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 04:40 AM

Gouv, buddy, the meds are on the nightstand right next to you. Focus man! 

 

 

Crap we're losing him...

 Just finger cramps and some busted keys from pounding too damn hard.  I gotta try to remember to use the font, color  and size thinghies up and to the left



#26 Pokey uh da LBC

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 03:50 PM

You got a growing business. So the 40-hour work week is just a fond memory. You got three kids (pre-teens?). And you got a wife that you wanna keep.

 

Are you seriously considering two boats?



#27 Kent H

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 04:34 PM

PM  the poster Echo.   He has the exact same situation except that the kids and business are more mature.   I am sure he can give you excellent advice based on his business, boat Bene 36.7 and family experience. 



#28 crazyhorse

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 04:53 PM

You got a growing business. So the 40-hour work week is just a fond memory. You got three kids (pre-teens?). And you got a wife that you wanna keep.

 

Are you seriously considering two boats?

No Pokey.........Ala my post yesterday, the two boat deal is off-da-table........So It's back to the original plan.  And 40 hour work week?..........Pffft......It was like 60-70 for those first 4 years......which was another reason for the dumpin' the Mumm (along with the "lack" (lack is actually a kind word) of funding pouring in at that time!).  But the hours have been dwindling down now to much more manageable levels as we continue to hire more peeps (another reason as to why we're looking at this this year).



#29 crazyhorse

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 04:58 PM

And Gouv......??.........I mean, Holy shiiiiiit bro........ :D



#30 Snaggletooth

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 04:59 PM

Mabey you canne joine Hussler criew, be worlde champins evrey weekende and borroe boate frome expo foure crussing.  Hese a nise guye.    :)



#31 RumLine

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 05:24 PM

Take the wife out to see the 105, if she can picture herself cruising with the entire family for more than an overnight then go for it.  In my opinion cruising on the J105 is more like camping than cruising, while it may check all your boxes, does it check hers?

 

I would find a nice cruiser / racer with a decent handicap record, that doesn't need a lot of work.  If you want to avoid a divorce, make sure it's something with a door on the head, and a galley that entails more than just a propane camping stove.  After a few years, if your budget allows for it, you can get yourself something more fun but at least you'll be able to do some racing and a bunch of cruising with the family.

 

For your budget you could probably pick up a nice C&C, Beneteau, or maybe an Express 37.



#32 kmccabe

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 05:31 PM

J-105's are great boats. I don't know why you would hesitate. Gouv - you've got the right idea - make it fun and involve family.  Thank you for what you're doing for sailing.

 

Man, it's been a loooooong time since I've posted on SA.

 

So here's the gig .......... Sport boat guy at heart, no doubt and nothing  really even compares.........buuuuuuut, the dynamics have changed for me.  Simply put.......I had the "brilliant" idea of leaving my coushy job and starting my own business 7 years ago......at the time, the wifey had three small kids slinging from one arm and a mortgage bill glued constantly to the other.  Again, "brilliant".  Some people buy exotic toys when they turn 40....... I spent my shit on a manufacturing facility and on supporting the fam damily for the first 2 years (fondly refered to as our "lean" years).

 

Needless to say, I sold the Mumm during that initial 2 yr period.......ya know, bein' responsible and shit.   I Spent the last 5 years having sex with the centerboard trunk on my bud's Lightning.  To say I'm itchin' to jump back into the game would be an understatement.......think poision oak type scratch.

 

The problemo........Now that we've been a bit successful, grew the business, and made some scratch back......there's a little room in the budget to appease the need.  BUT, since the wife never set foot on the Mumm (spending those years barefoot and breastfeeding while I was playing), I've only got a green light for something the fam can enjoy and light cruise with (read: I don't want a divorce).

 

Seriously though, the ankle biters have grown and it's a perfect time to expand their sailing horizons from the Opti's and 420's.  But what to get in the 35 ft range with a budget of about $55 - $ 70k !!??  In all honesty, this is probably a 5 year gig before getting back into the sport boat game........but I don't want to sacrifice now and would like something that's somewhat fun, stable for the kids,  hopefully has a OD fleet, and the ability to cruise up to Newport and Block with the fam.  Folks, we're not talking trans-atlantic........just basic gunkholing in the sound and New England.

 

I know they take a lotta shit ,but it really does lead to one boat, no? .....ahem..... the J-105 (which has a great fleet in our area(s)).  Is there anything else anyone can recommend.....or a boat I'm not seeing that can fit the bill?

 

Another option would be to buy an older, cruisier boat for under $20k to hang on the mooring and get a J-70 for the racing fix.

 

Thoughts? 

 

CH



#33 Great Red Shark

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 06:02 PM

In the past year I had a good friend, sailing buddy, and fellow performance-boat owner ask me to "Talk him down" on his desire to buy a 105.

 

I boiled it down to "If that's what you want, go ahead and just get one."

 

If you hate it,   the resale is pretty good afterall.    It's pretty easy to maintain, sails fine and is big enough to have the whole gang aboard. While it's NOT ever going to make much of a 'cruiser' it does fine for heavy-duty daysailing - and that might be just fine for them now. Hard to go very wrong there - that's why they've sold so well, and if the OD aspect is something you really think you might want to do again, there really is nothing like it.

 

I do like the idea of a nicely pimped-out camper van and a Viper going on Family-racing tours though, and a 'big-boat' with enough headroom to enjoy being aboard ( Andrews 28, Lidgard 29, Express 34 ) would probably allow adventures further afield...



#34 Pokey uh da LBC

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 06:04 PM

You got a growing business. So the 40-hour work week is just a fond memory. You got three kids (pre-teens?). And you got a wife that you wanna keep.

 

Are you seriously considering two boats?

No Pokey.........Ala my post yesterday, the two boat deal is off-da-table........So It's back to the original plan.  And 40 hour work week?..........Pffft......It was like 60-70 for those first 4 years......which was another reason for the dumpin' the Mumm (along with the "lack" (lack is actually a kind word) of funding pouring in at that time!).  But the hours have been dwindling down now to much more manageable levels as we continue to hire more peeps (another reason as to why we're looking at this this year).

 

That being the case, seems like the 105 is a good choice. Big one design fleet. Solid build. Great for day sailing. Easy to handle when it pipes up. Downsides: Tough PHRF rating and lack of headroom. But after campaigning the J35 and MF30, you're already flush with pickle dishes, right? And anyway, how often do you really plan to sleep on the boat?



#35 crazyhorse

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 06:44 PM

 

You got a growing business. So the 40-hour work week is just a fond memory. You got three kids (pre-teens?). And you got a wife that you wanna keep.

 

Are you seriously considering two boats?

No Pokey.........Ala my post yesterday, the two boat deal is off-da-table........So It's back to the original plan.  And 40 hour work week?..........Pffft......It was like 60-70 for those first 4 years......which was another reason for the dumpin' the Mumm (along with the "lack" (lack is actually a kind word) of funding pouring in at that time!).  But the hours have been dwindling down now to much more manageable levels as we continue to hire more peeps (another reason as to why we're looking at this this year).

 

That being the case, seems like the 105 is a good choice. Big one design fleet. Solid build. Great for day sailing. Easy to handle when it pipes up. Downsides: Tough PHRF rating and lack of headroom. But after campaigning the J35 and MF30, you're already flush with pickle dishes, right? And anyway, how often do you really plan to sleep on the boat?

 

Right......exactly.......

 

The "cruising" aspect of the whole deal really boils down to like 1 week per year.....basically.....a few days in Newport or Block, or both........where we'll use the on-shore facilities anywayz.......so down below will be restricted to basically sleeping or bad weather reading/chillin' time at the slip/mooring......most of the time spent on shore/restaurants/tourist shiiiit/etc.....and in the roomy cockpit with some drinks unitl beddy-bie time.

 

I'd say MOST (95%) of the sailing will be day sailing with an occasional overnighter here or there......some Wed nights .....and some OD.  Again, peeps are thinkin' "cruising" like we're splittin' for a month each summer.......it's basically just chuggin' up to Narraganset and surrounding areas.......... or down to Nappy-town for a week..........datz it.

 

CH



#36 jesposito

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 06:58 PM

If it's for only 5 years, why not just buy something for cruising and get hooked up with a good program for racing. This way you get the best of both worlds. 

 

 

You got a growing business. So the 40-hour work week is just a fond memory. You got three kids (pre-teens?). And you got a wife that you wanna keep.

 

Are you seriously considering two boats?

No Pokey.........Ala my post yesterday, the two boat deal is off-da-table........So It's back to the original plan.  And 40 hour work week?..........Pffft......It was like 60-70 for those first 4 years......which was another reason for the dumpin' the Mumm (along with the "lack" (lack is actually a kind word) of funding pouring in at that time!).  But the hours have been dwindling down now to much more manageable levels as we continue to hire more peeps (another reason as to why we're looking at this this year).

 

That being the case, seems like the 105 is a good choice. Big one design fleet. Solid build. Great for day sailing. Easy to handle when it pipes up. Downsides: Tough PHRF rating and lack of headroom. But after campaigning the J35 and MF30, you're already flush with pickle dishes, right? And anyway, how often do you really plan to sleep on the boat?

 

Right......exactly.......

 

The "cruising" aspect of the whole deal really boils down to like 1 week per year.....basically.....a few days in Newport or Block, or both........where we'll use the on-shore facilities anywayz.......so down below will be restricted to basically sleeping or bad weather reading/chillin' time at the slip/mooring......most of the time spent on shore/restaurants/tourist shiiiit/etc.....and in the roomy cockpit with some drinks unitl beddy-bie time.

 

I'd say MOST (95%) of the sailing will be day sailing with an occasional overnighter here or there......some Wed nights .....and some OD.  Again, peeps are thinkin' "cruising" like we're splittin' for a month each summer.......it's basically just chuggin' up to Narraganset and surrounding areas.......... or down to Nappy-town for a week..........datz it.

 

CH



#37 crazyhorse

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 07:46 PM

.........

If you hate it,   the resale is pretty good afterall.    It's pretty easy to maintain, sails fine and is big enough to have the whole gang aboard. While it's NOT ever going to make much of a 'cruiser' it does fine for heavy-duty daysailing - and that might be just fine for them now. Hard to go very wrong there - that's why they've sold so well, and if the OD aspect is something you really think you might want to do again, there really is nothing like it.

GRS........That's sorta what I was thinkin'



#38 DoRag

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 07:48 PM

You'll be happier with the J105 than the other boats mentioned as the 105 can surf.



#39 dolphinmaster

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 08:29 PM

CH,  

 

have you thought of an FT-10?  They seem to fit a lot of your parameters.  OD though minimal is the weakest one of your boxes but there are a few in the NE.  I've only been below one at the dock but have always imagined it would be fine as a fast family sailboat, capable of weekend overniters etc.



#40 Great Red Shark

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 08:38 PM

About the only thing I'd add is that the FAMILY atmosphere of the old Hobie Regattas were the most fun I've ever seen sailing families have together.  With kids at that age,  a Deluxo Westfalia Euro-van and a Viper or Hobie Tiger would be a really neat toy if I didn't have great coastal access - travel regionally to events, vacations, sail a little, camp a little - I miss that stuff,  and it could provide the 'thrill-craft' aspect of sailing to engage the teenagers - I know - a Prindle 16 sure hooked me.

 

But if you are keel-boat oriented and have a good venue for it,  the J/105 sails well enough to teach the wife how to helm and the roller-furling and inboard may well mean it gets used a lot more than a boat you have to rig up to splash. 

 

As a follow-up,  my buddy got a nice 105 off the West Coast and seems to be enjoying it quite a bit more than the higher-strung boat he had previously - and he's not even a Family Guy yet.

 

I've sailed the FTs and I like them,  but somebody that owned a Mumm30 isn't likely to be all that impressed and while they would be better in a light-air venue,  the lack of OD and resale might complicate spousal approval.  The biggest drawback for the FT is the lack of the inboard,  and general tippy-ness of the higher-performance boat.



#41 Dart#004

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 09:10 PM

I had a J 32 for just this reason. And I could stand up in it. Fun boat. Stable, inboard, phrf cruiser-racer type. Some available on the west coast. Perfect family boat.

#42 Great Red Shark

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 09:19 PM

Nice strong rig....



#43 MidPack

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 09:33 PM

Seriously though, the ankle biters have grown and it's a perfect time to expand their sailing horizons from the Opti's and 420's.  But what to get in the 35 ft range with a budget of about $55 - $ 70k !!??  In all honesty, this is probably a 5 year gig before getting back into the sport boat game........but I don't want to sacrifice now and would like something that's somewhat fun, stable for the kids,  hopefully has a OD fleet, and the ability to cruise up to Newport and Block with the fam.  Folks, we're not talking trans-atlantic........just basic gunkholing in the sound and New England.
 
I know they take a lotta shit ,but it really does lead to one boat, no? .....ahem..... the J-105 (which has a great fleet in our area(s)).  Is there anything else anyone can recommend.....or a boat I'm not seeing that can fit the bill?
 
Another option would be to buy an older, cruisier boat for under $20k to hang on the mooring and get a J-70 for the racing fix.

I think the J/105 may be the best choice, it's a good design for a lot of people who want to race and weekend cruise. Some thoughts, and some just reinforce other members:

I'd rather have a decent $70K J/105 than fuss with 2 boats. A $20K "older, cruiser" big enough for a fam of 5 is no prize, and much harder to resell. I'd crew on someone else's hot race boat and buy a fast cruiser before I'd buy any two boats - that's a lot of work and ongoing boat budget.

But 5 people sleeping on a J/105 is closer to camping than some people would like. It depends on whether you want to hang out below as a family, or just use the boat as a place to sleep (like we did). I think taking the wife out sailing on a J/105 in your price range is good advice, see what she thinks. If she's expecting something cushy with standing head room and a real galley, she won't like the J/105. It's a reasonably fast, easy weekender - not a dedicated race boat or a cruiser.

A J/105 is easier to handle/crew than most if not all of the (1 boat solution) 35 footers boats suggested. My wife and I alone flew the chute with a sock in 25-30 knot winds, and we're not rock stars by any means - it's very easy to handle. The J/105 can race with 4-5 crew ( instead of 6-8), easier to resell, and with good OD. The J/105 will surf (technically semi-plane) at around 20 knots of breeze, it is fun, and the boat is surprisingly stable surfing (I owned one and raced others for 5-6 years). The kids could grow into crew on a J/105 sprit/asym easier than a conventional chute boat, the latter may have higher loads too (more displ = more sail area & higher line loads).

Many of the J haters here recommend all out race boats that don't pretend to be family boats, so don't be thrown by those members. Some of them recommend boats they don't own themselves...

Best of luck whatever you go with.

#44 Inter 20

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 10:50 PM

Attached File  DSC_2245.JPG   70.86K   109 downloadsI just love looking back at that day. 20.4 knots top speed, 18 when this photo was taken. My wife and I daysail with my 2 boys as well.

#45 NorCalLaser

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 11:10 PM

i'd go w/ 2 boats.  or actually 1.5

why not get a partner for the race boat?  much easier to stomach that shredded kite when you're only on the hook for 50 or 33% of the new one...



#46 dacapo

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 11:21 PM

J33

#47 crazyhorse

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 02:50 AM

CH,  

 

have you thought of an FT-10?  They seem to fit a lot of your parameters.  OD though minimal is the weakest one of your boxes but there are a few in the NE.  I've only been below one at the dock but have always imagined it would be fine as a fast family sailboat, capable of weekend overniters etc.

 

Man ....... I was part of that discussion here back when they were first designing them and building them......it was when SA was blowin' up.  Seems like a cool boat, but I was heavily into the Mumm at that point.  Absolutely no OD out here though and maybe a bit tippy for the fam.......plus no diesel is a killer for me.



#48 crazyhorse

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 03:16 AM

attachicon.gifDSC_2245.JPGI just love looking back at that day. 20.4 knots top speed, 18 when this photo was taken. My wife and I daysail with my 2 boys as well.

 

Holy shit thatlooks fun bro .... What was it blowin' that day?............ I remember hitting 25+ downhill the first time in the Mumm up in the Narraganset. Hard to explain those types of rides! You may have sold me on the 105 :)



#49 J29Guy

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 03:52 AM

My wife and I cruise our J 29 for 2 weeks in the summer.  My wife say's it simply as going tent camping vs camper camping.  Any of us that went tent camping as kids remember those times as the best ever.  Buy the J 105 and the rest will work it's self out..  Allot of  J Boat hater out there and I really don't know why.  You will love how the J Boat sail's.  



#50 sumpin

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 04:00 AM

I love my 105. we sleep in it. we cruise to the island in it, we have cocktails on it...I would never want to hunker down for any extended period of time down below.

I can sail OD but chose not to and can do PH which I also chose not to however it is a great beercan ride. 

don't need much head room when sleeping.

we bbq on deck where we also keep the cooler

I am fortunate that I do my racing on OPB but the wife and gf really dig the 105 for what it offers



#51 JSoup

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 05:11 AM

We love our 105. It's the best compromise boat we could hope for. Despite the hate here, we have done well in PHRF, enjoy the one design stuff immensely, won our class in the Oregon Offshore, and are proud to have helped push another 105 to 1st overall in the very light air Swiftsure Cape Flattery race. My family of 4 is excited for our 5 day San Juan Island cruise. It's all a compromise, but we couldn't find a better answer and are very happy with the choice.

#52 Flashbrah

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:56 AM

I hear those S&S 34's are a pretty good option. 

Might be a bit too much adrenaline for an old bloke such as yourself, however.



#53 phrf#!k

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 12:32 PM

J/30 would fit the bill, and as said earlier, would leave you with enough $ to buy a Viper. You could use the 30 for local racing and the occasional cruise (sleeps 5 or 6, depending on which version and has full headroom and a nicely finished cabin) not to mention there are occasional well attended one design events (21 boats registered for this years NA's). Then you could trail the Viper to OD events for your sport boat fix. The big plus with this arrangement is that you would only have one boat on a mooring with associated costs, while the Viper could live on a trailer in your driveway.

#54 Speng

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 02:02 PM

Right......exactly.......

 
The "cruising" aspect of the whole deal really boils down to like 1 week per year.....basically.....a few days in Newport or Block, or both........where we'll use the on-shore facilities anywayz.......so down below will be restricted to basically sleeping or bad weather reading/chillin' time at the slip/mooring......most of the time spent on shore/restaurants/tourist shiiiit/etc.....and in the roomy cockpit with some drinks unitl beddy-bie time.
 
I'd say MOST (95%) of the sailing will be day sailing with an occasional overnighter here or there......some Wed nights .....and some OD.  Again, peeps are thinkin' "cruising" like we're splittin' for a month each summer.......it's basically just chuggin' up to Narraganset and surrounding areas.......... or down to Nappy-town for a week..........datz it.
 
CH

 For such light use could you rent/charter? Roll up to the marina jump on the boat that some charter company slave's spent the time mucking out the crapper and changing the oil filters and all that BS and do your cruising/daysailing and then drop it off and go home no muss no fuss and you're not swallowing depreciation and next time if you want something else you rent that...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
...and buy a Viper for racing.

#55 volfan615

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 03:01 PM

I was looking for a J/105 last year before finally deciding on a J/100.  Most the of the J/105s that I found had been rode hard and put up wet.  I did find a couple that looked good but they were both on the west cost  and mucho dollars to move.  I don't think you can go wrong with the J/105..  just have to be patient and find the right one.



#56 Folding prop

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 03:39 PM

 

attachicon.gifDSC_2245.JPGI just love looking back at that day. 20.4 knots top speed, 18 when this photo was taken. My wife and I daysail with my 2 boys as well.

That must be a 105 world speed record. I have never seen a 105 look like that. Holy #*&!, Batman.

#57 Snaggletooth

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 04:08 PM

That must be a 105 world speed record. I have never seen a 105 look like that. Holy #*&!, Batman.

Yeares aggo at BIRW, Buche started us with drarke cloudes appoaching, haffe up the upwinde legg becalme a downinde with raine an majore breeze!  The race wase abbadonned butte foure thoise fewe minutes and folloeng pannice the J105 were flyeng alle overt.  Kicken up bowe waves loungere then the boates, verrey wette an wilde!!!.



#58 LakeBoy

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 05:09 PM

I know czo ........ I have a feelin' the consensus will share that view as well.  Shit, that conversation's gonna suck though...."Honey, I know we're talking about buying 1 boat, but......uhhhh...."   Which will most likely lead to a few, back pain filled nights on the couch.

 

So if peeps chose my second option......the next question is what's a good 'ol cruiser (or Wed night PHRF boat) for $20 k or less that's comfy and not a pig? ....... and something the wife and I can easily double-hand for some eveing cocktail cruises? (another reason I was thinking 105)

 

Have you considered a Hobie 33?  Established PHRF #, reasonably quick and somewhat cruisable. 



#59 jim lee

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 05:21 PM

628x471.jpg

 

Just buy one of these, set it up inside for camping and really go somewhere!

 

 

-jim lee



#60 crazyhorse

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 05:46 PM

628x471.jpg

 

Just buy one of these, set it up inside for camping and really go somewhere!

 

 

-jim lee

 

Ohhhhh ...... Ahhhhhh .......B-25...........Now THAT"S a camper : )



#61 kmccabe

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 05:50 PM

yossarian_catch-22.jpg



#62 crazyhorse

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 06:17 PM

yossarian_catch-22.jpg

 

Wait......Is that your Father / Grandfather / Relative? . .........Or is it a young Alan Arkin?  Looks just like him.  Awesome shot though!



#63 PATSYQPATSY

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 06:23 PM

He works for the Syndicate.  I hear Egyptian cotton is on the menu in the chow hall.



#64 Shaggy

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 06:36 PM

Na get this one so you can park close to the boat.....  howitzer out the nose optional........ 

 

Expendables+Plane.jpg



#65 crazyhorse

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 06:51 PM

yossarian_catch-22.jpg

 

Wait......Is that your Father / Grandfather / Relative? . .........Or is it a young Alan Arkin?  Looks just like him.  Awesome shot though!

 

Geeze.....what a f'ckin idiot I am ..... I just realized it's from Catch 22.  Duhhhhhhhhhh



#66 PATSYQPATSY

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 07:14 PM

Back on topic Yusarian.  How bout a S2 9.1?  PHRF killer and comfy.  Wring her out for 5 years and trade up saving some dough early and applying it later.



#67 J24Soup

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 07:33 PM

If there is OD in your area that is all like the gang in Seattle, 105 seems like a great choice.  Very easy to short-hand sail, get a good dodger, BBQ, and cooler for the cockpit, and you're in "boat camping" mode.  The backrest cushions down below double as cushions in the cockpit, my favorite place to sleep if the weather is nice enough.



#68 kmccabe

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 07:38 PM

Yossarian!!!!!! 

 

 

 

yossarian_catch-22.jpg

 

Wait......Is that your Father / Grandfather / Relative? . .........Or is it a young Alan Arkin?  Looks just like him.  Awesome shot though!

 

Geeze.....what a f'ckin idiot I am ..... I just realized it's from Catch 22.  Duhhhhhhhhhh



#69 MidPack

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 07:42 PM

If there is OD in your area that is all like the gang in Seattle, 105 seems like a great choice.  Very easy to short-hand sail, get a good dodger, BBQ, and cooler for the cockpit, and you're in "boat camping" mode.  The backrest cushions down below double as cushions in the cockpit, my favorite place to sleep if the weather is nice enough.

+1 on the dodger for family sailing. Our J/105 had one, great for cold, wet, rain or even shade occasionally, we almost never took our dodger down.



#70 crazyhorse

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 09:10 PM

Back on topic Yusarian.  How bout a S2 9.1?  PHRF killer and comfy.  Wring her out for 5 years and trade up saving some dough early and applying it later.

 

What an idiot I am ...... I even said "Alan Arkin".........looooooong day. 

 

Anyway, back on topic.......Not really looking for an older PHRF type............ OD (hence the 105), and something with a sprit for ease with the fam.  But yer right, that S2 rating is a killer.  Just not my thing.........I, at the least, want the ability to do some OD events when I can.

 

I guess the 105's the way to go.....just cannot think of anything else that will do what I need.  Is there some sacrifice for cruising?...........hell yeah, it's more like camping........but that's all not so bad with me. 



#71 Wet Spreaders

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 10:57 PM

Here's a link to a fast J105 downwind leg. Puff hits about 1 min into it.

 

http://www.youtube.c...QDxuYroZ4#t=64s



#72 jim lee

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 12:29 AM

Here you go, watch close and you can see Alan Arkin wave at you.

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=nLMDIlxUa58

 

-jim lee



#73 crazyhorse

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 04:46 AM

Here's a link to a fast J105 downwind leg. Puff hits about 1 min into it.

 

http://www.youtube.c...QDxuYroZ4#t=64s

 

WS ..... Sweet man .........I got lost for bout an hour watching the various vid's....mostly heavy air stuff on the 105............fuck do I miss the Mumm :(  .......but it's time to do the fam thing for  a bit and the 105 looks like the kids will have a blast.



#74 volfan615

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 05:00 AM

Just received my weekly yacht world email.  New J105 listed in Annapolis.

 

http://www.yachtworl...es#.Uabcq5XUbKo



#75 Alcatraz5768

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 06:29 AM

Cruise in a race boat, the 105 looks much more civilised than our boat (35' complete with solid hiking wings) which we cruise with 6. 4yo goes up in the pipe berth in the bow with the baby in a custom made canvas portacot. The teenagers sleep in the saloon and wifey and I have a quarter berth each. We have a galley and freezer and head and the kids love it every time we go away, I think people forget that the boat doesn't make the holiday, the laughs do, which are much more plentiful when going camping style than when everyone is locked away in their own cabin. Plus who the fuck wants to go slow, when you can be blasting along on a reach sitting on a beanbag against the weather rail with no3 kid in a bisons chair hanging from the masthead kite halyard getting slain hitting waves up to his chest. Good times.

#76 TekkaMaki

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 04:29 AM

J35, J36, J33, Dash 34 or Bene 36.7 all good bets.  J105 would not be my cruiser/racer of choice- YMMV



#77 Jim H

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:38 PM

Express 34

I agree.....

 

So my wife and I were looking for a cruising boat but also a boat that sailed well and we could do the occasional beer can race in.  We looked at 105's because of the large 1D activity in our area but no way in hell is a 105 a cruising boat.  So I started looking around some more and found the Express 34, did a bunch of reading on them and the stumbled on one that was damaged during Sandy but at least we got to take a look at how she is laid out etc. and decided this was the boat.  Problem was there was only the one damaged by Sandy and another that we found for sale.  We ran the numbers and for us the damaged one did not make financial sense, though if you were motivated to do the glass work and paint it would make very good sense.  We ended up buying the other one that was for sale knowing that she was sounds but needed some love.  After 4 straight weeks of working on her pretty hard we got to sail her last weekend......pretty darn excited with our decision as it fits what we wanted pretty well.  We had allocated $50K for the first season all in, so far we are tracking just under budget with me doing 99.9% of the work. 

 

So now between the Express and the little K6 we have the best of both worlds.....a platform to sail Friday nights for beer can racing, and then Saturday morning go for a sail and end up in a harbor somewhere on the sound, sleep over and Sunday morning head back and go bombing around in the K6 for club racing........Life is good.

 

Another boat we looked at is the Olson 34 but they all seemed to be on the West coast or the PNW but that is another boat that seems offers decent performance, decent accommodations, decent build quality all at a decent price.  

 

Good luck with your search.

 

Cheers,

Jim



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Posted 06 June 2013 - 07:08 PM

Finally someone else on here with some common sense.  :)

 

Too bad the OP has settled on the 105. But only he will start to wonder when he tries to put on his FWG down below, or prepare that cup of coffee in the morning.






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