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Perfection Plus Is Killing My Budget


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#1 JumpingJax

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 09:55 PM

Perfection Plus two part clear polyurethane "varnish" is a tough, rather elastic coating and is working really well for me over West 105/207. Up to a point.

Perfection Pluscomes in a one quart package, to be mixed 2:1 by volume. Part B, the "hardener" comes in a re-closeable can with a screw top. When coating small parts, I often use small amounts and always re-close the containers promptly. However, the Part B goes off, turning solid in its container if I try to store it for three or four weeks while working on other projects.

Part B is only offered in combination with Part A. At $85-$105 per quart. I now have surplus Part A and no Part B; can't find a way to get Part B alone; it's tough to face discarding the unused Part A.

Anybody know how to source more Part B alone? Anybody know how to store opened Part B without it going off? (I've tried other closed containers, storing it in the dark and "Bloxygen" air displacement. None of these efforts had any discernible effect.

Is this an oxygen "cure"? A UV "cure"? A moisture "cure"? I can't find out what triggers the stuff to go off. The mfg. site offers no information on point.

I'd hate to give up a really good product because

  • (a) it's really expensive to begin with, but - barely - worth it; and
  • (b ) it's much too expensive when half or even more of the quart is lost and unusable because Part B can't be stored after opening.


Any help would be appreciated.



#2 The Gardener

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 10:33 PM

awl-grip has a similar product.

they seem to sell individually

 

sister company

compatable..?

ask the tech line



#3 Sticky Icky

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 07:22 PM

Went through the same thing, Interlux's tech people basically gave the whole goodfellas "f u pay me my money" bit...  No they did eventually say I could try and put it in a different type of container...  they could only suggest glass.   I've had some in a glass rum bottle with very little empty air volume that seems to not have cooked off after a couple of months, keeping in no-uv climate controlled environment.

 

But yeah, they basically said nothing else in the marketplace could be used, and the company had no interest in selling just part the part b... probably for obvious reasons of screwing customers over for cash...



#4 Remodel

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 07:45 PM

You have to remove or replace the air in the container. I think that pulling a vacuum through some sort of sealable fixture or valve would be best, but that sounds tricky and possibly hard to maintain over a long period.

 

So, you need to replace the air in the container with an inert, heavier-than-air gas such as Argon or CO2. I've heard of people using MAP gas or propane, but that sounds risky to me. If you have access to a place that sells dry ice in small quantities, that's going to be your simplest answer.

 

Take a small cube of dry ice and place it in a mason jar or old mayonnaise jar and cover it lightly with a cloth. Don't seal it completely, or the CO2 gas may not displace the air properly. Once the dry ice has sublimated, pour the CO2 gas out of the mason jar and into the part b container just as if you were filling it with water. Seal the part b container immediately and securely. It should keep for a good while.



#5 WarBird

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 07:56 PM

So, you need to replace the air in the container with an inert, heavier-than-air gas such as Argon or CO2. I've heard of people using MAP gas or propane, but that sounds risky to me. If you have access to a place that sells dry ice in small quantities, that's going to be your simplest answer.

I am not sure why there is an anti propane/mapp gas sentiment. DON'T LIGHT IT! Use an unlit propane/Mapp torch and just blow it in the can just before covering. The volume trapped (headspace) is a very small low pressure/no pressure amount. Likely the same volatility as the fumes coming off the paint, varnish, hardner, epoxy that you are trying to preserve.

#6 Ishmael

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 03:22 AM

So, you need to replace the air in the container with an inert, heavier-than-air gas such as Argon or CO2. I've heard of people using MAP gas or propane, but that sounds risky to me. If you have access to a place that sells dry ice in small quantities, that's going to be your simplest answer.

I am not sure why there is an anti propane/mapp gas sentiment. DON'T LIGHT IT! Use an unlit propane/Mapp torch and just blow it in the can just before covering. The volume trapped (headspace) is a very small low pressure/no pressure amount. Likely the same volatility as the fumes coming off the paint, varnish, hardner, epoxy that you are trying to preserve.

 

 

Fill the container with marbles, you don't need the displace the air if there isn't any.



#7 Throatwarbler-Mangrove

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 04:06 AM

Fine woodworking supply houses like Woodcraft, and Lee Valley sell aerosol cans of finish preserver.  Inert gas.  I wouldn't mess with propane or MAP gas. 



#8 Junkyard Dog

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 02:14 PM

http://www.amazon.co...t/dp/B001OW80PK



#9 Overbored

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 03:15 PM

http://www.amazon.co...t/dp/B001OW80PK

it is argon gas. CO2 is not good because it contains O2



#10 dreaded

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 03:52 PM

http://www.amazon.co...t/dp/B001OW80PK

it is argon gas. CO2 is not good because it contains O2

 

 

I highly doubt the oxygen is going to come off the c02 molecule..    hell get a cheap 5lb tank and go to a local welding company and get it filled with co2..  plenty on craigslist..



#11 Cavelamb

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:40 AM

Pour the unused fluid into a glass jar.

Cut a piece of plastic (saran wrap like stuff) to fit in the jar.

Put the plastic over the resin and screw on the lid.

DON'T shake it!

 

Works wonders...

 

But this tip cost 1 quart of gloss white.  :)



#12 Remodel

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 02:02 PM

http://www.amazon.co...t/dp/B001OW80PK

Yeah well, that would be easier...



#13 bruno

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 07:01 PM

some refrigerate hardeners but they tend to contaminate the air

#14 Jim Conlin

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 01:28 AM

The Product Data Sheet for Perfection (http://www.yachtpain... Y 20100608.pdf)  says it has a typical shelf life of two years.

If your experience is much less than that, I'd bitch mightily to the vendor that aged it before you bought it.



#15 JumpingJax

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 08:42 PM

The Product Data Sheet for Perfection (http://www.yachtpain... Y 20100608.pdf)  says it has a typical shelf life of two years.

If your experience is much less than that, I'd bitch mightily to the vendor that aged it before you bought it.

 

Thanks for all the input.  Good suggestions.  I'm currently using a combo of propane injection, plastic film sealing the top under the screw closure, and keeping it in the dark and in the reefer.  Too soon to tell what life span I can get this way, but we live in hope. 

 

A shelf life of two years may be accurate for an unopened can, but it sure ain't happening after it's opened and light (uv?), air (O2), or heat gets to it.  Vendor aging is not the issue. 

 

Wrote to Akzo Nobel about the problem - same text as the OP.  Just got a reply today, as follows:

 

"I am sorry for the difficulties you are encountering.  Unfortunately, we do not market or sell just the catalyst for our Perfection Plus system.  The only product you could use would be Awlgrip Awlcat 2 for spray application or Awlgrip Awlcat 3 for brush and roll application.  You would mix Awlcat 2 at a 1 to 1 ratio, or Awlcat 3 at a 2 to 1 ratio (Base to converter.).  These two products are not identical, so I’m not sure if the results will be satisfactory(e.g lower gloss), but chemically, the cure would occur.  I personally wouldn’t even try going this route, as we wouldn’t be able to guarantee it would work.The other issue with this is that Awlcat converters are generally more expensive than the entire Perfection Plus kit. 

 

"I do not know how to extend the life of Perfection Plus cure once opened.  I’d imagine the reaction is moisture or oxygen driven.

 

"All the best,

"Kenneth Wickey 
"Technical Service Representative
"Yacht N.A.

"T  +1 908-964-2213
"F  +1 908-686-8545
"E  Ken.Wickey@akzonobel.com

"International Paint LLC

"2270 Morris Avenue

"Union, NJ  07083

 

"www.akzonobel.com/yacht

"Follow AkzoNobel online at www.akzonobel.com/followus

 

A bit scary to think that the namufacturer doesn't know what happens to their product in the field.  And a bit lassiz faire about the problem.  

 

I think I'll be looking at alternatives for the future. 



#16 Jim Conlin

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 02:10 AM

I've had the Awlgrip catalysts last for several years after opening before hardening.

 

If there are lot number markings on the cans, Interlux should be able to tell you how long it was aged in the distribution channel.  I would not let them or the retailer off the hook.



#17 Soņadora

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 05:37 AM

Three or four weeks? Dumb

Sorry, but you are asking for more than the product can deliver. It clearly states that the contents need to be used once opened. If you cannot follow directions then this product is not for you. Used as directed, this stuff is phenomenal.

#18 Overbored

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 06:00 AM

I have been using the same can of perfection plus for over 6 months and both parts look like they did when I opened them.  I love the stuff



#19 Soņadora

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 04:43 PM

I have been using the same can of perfection plus for over 6 months and both parts look like they did when I opened them.  I love the stuff

 

are you using that Bloxygen stuff?

 

when you say 'can' you mean 'cans' right? ;)

 

and I stand corrected. I was thinking pot life, not shelf life. My bad.

 

According to Interlux documentation, shelf life is 2 years. I will say that when I used it on S, the part B stuff would thicken up in a day if left open. Of course, it was 120f inside the shed :)

 

You can read a bit about my Perfection experience here.



#20 Overbored

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:02 PM

I still have half can left of both parts and look at it yesterday because I am planing to use some this weekend. still looks like new. no I do not use inert gas, just close the  top tight. the stuff on the screw cap does dry out and make the top hard to open so i clean the top before putting it back on. the can I am using is well over two years old



#21 Soņadora

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:06 PM

I still have half can left of both parts and look at it yesterday because I am planing to use some this weekend. still looks like new. no I do not use inert gas, just close the  top tight. the stuff on the screw cap does dry out and make the top hard to open so i clean the top before putting it back on. the can I am using is well over two years old

 

That's good to know! I was sort of freaking out that I'd have to buy a whole quart just to fix up a scratch here and there.



#22 JumpingJax

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:41 PM

I still have half can left of both parts and look at it yesterday because I am planing to use some this weekend. still looks like new. no I do not use inert gas, just close the  top tight. the stuff on the screw cap does dry out and make the top hard to open so i clean the top before putting it back on. the can I am using is well over two years old

 

That's good to know! I was sort of freaking out that I'd have to buy a whole quart just to fix up a scratch here and there.

 

So far (three weeks now and counting) using refrigeration, propane immediately blown into the can and a layer of polyethylene film over the (well cleaned) top before putting the screw cap on - tightly, the stuff shows no sign of thickening.  Since I've gone to the belt and suspenders approach of combining multiple suggestions, I can't say which one is most effective, but it's a lot better than before.  At these prices, I'll be happy to keep wondering.  Maybe someone at International Paints will decide to find out some day and let us all know.  My shop is usually hot, humid, with some UV light coming through a few windows and an oxygen content right around 20% by volume, and any one could be the cause.  My shop reefer is cold and (with the door closed) dark, while the propane and polyethylene offer added protection from oxygen and moisture.  I've got all the bases covered for now. 



#23 42 South

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 10:24 PM

Sounds like Military Madness to me ....

 

 http://www.youtube.c...h?v=czUx2gvjdJk

 

In an upstairs room in Blackpool
By the side of a northern sea
The army had my father
And my mother was having me
Perfection Plus was Killing My Budget.....



#24 Soņadora

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 02:57 AM

Sounds like Military Madness to me ....
 
 http://www.youtube.c...h?v=czUx2gvjdJk
 
In an upstairs room in Blackpool[/size]By the side of a northern sea[/size]The army had my father[/size]And my mother was having me[/size]Perfection Plus was Killing My Budget.....[/size]


Nice

#25 Chris O

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 11:07 PM

What about Nitrogen? The wine industry uses it to stop oxidation of opened bottles and you can get small, inexpensive cylinders of the stuff at any good wine store.

#26 Junkyard Dog

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 01:37 AM

What about Nitrogen? The wine industry uses it to stop oxidation of opened bottles and you can get small, inexpensive cylinders of the stuff at any good wine store.

As I understand it, Nitrogen is only about 3% heavier than air, and it mixes easily at room temp, so maybe if you seal it quickly after injecting.






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