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Interesting splits in Bayview Mackinac class


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#1 Polaris

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 10:34 AM

Who would have ever thought that PHRF D on the Shore Course would be the class for the big boys (unofficially).  Gives us little guys set to race against them something to look forward to.  If we beat them with a 70K boat, then what? 

 

http://www.bycmack.com/scratchall.cfm



#2 Geff

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 11:48 AM

That is just plain stupid!   :wacko:



#3 Lightfoot

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 03:09 PM

Thats going to be a fun starting line. Three 70fts starting with 4 30fts. Boats less than half their size!



#4 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 04:10 PM

Overall is awarded on shore course.  Hence the glory seekers will be on the shore course.

 

This way they get more time at an empty Pony



#5 Geff

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 04:36 PM

Yeah.  Like getting up there in 14 hrs as Earth Voyager did several years ago.  The soap freighter (WindQuest) did it in 16.  Turning that thing into a day race...  :rolleyes:



#6 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 04:53 PM

soap freighter...love it!

 

210 NM for a Volvo 70 in a big southerly...how about a 12 hour Mack?



#7 airacer

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:13 PM

Lame if you ask me.  Isn't sailboat racing about challenging yourself....against yourself, nature, and the best competition?   Do you really feel like a winner taking your million dollar boat and pro crew to beat up on a C&C 35 and a bunch of guys that sail a few times a year?

 

Talk about cherry picking.  The VO70 and the MaxZ might as well go for a day sail and just buy a big fancy meaningless flag.



#8 Geff

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:18 PM

soap freighter...love it!

 

210 NM for a Volvo 70 in a big southerly...how about a 12 hour Mack?

:D  :lol:  :P



Lame if you ask me.  Isn't sailboat racing about challenging yourself....against yourself, nature, and the best competition?   Do you really feel like a winner taking your million dollar boat and pro crew to beat up on a C&C 35 and a bunch of guys that sail a few times a year?

 

Talk about cherry picking.  The VO70 and the MaxZ might as well go for a day sail and just buy a big fancy meaningless flag.

Right on!



#9 dcbsheb

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:21 PM

Nothing better than finishing before the Pony opens....on Sunday.



#10 Grinder

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:31 PM

I thought this was a demo of the splits for the website.
This is totally & unequivocally gay.
Those big boats should be embarrassed.
If it is a misprint & they do the long course, as they should, I will take this back.

#11 REW

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 12:01 AM

They're scared of the multihulls. Who'd have thunk it?

#12 Polaris

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 12:26 AM

It's unofficial, so I am thinking that the rest of the Turbos will defect and they will have their own class (on the Shore course).  What they need to do is get slower boats so that they can actually enjoy some racing.  The numbers look good so far.  



#13 GABA

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 12:31 AM

Maybe its all about the weight and expense of the life rafts.  :blink:

Under the MSRs you don't need them on the shore course.

Look at how much Il Mostro and WQest would save on both.

 

I'm with you, it looks really cheezy.  And its OK to poke fun of the big guys.

But there's still a lot of time to switch sections. And I know from last year that the RC will ask a skipper to change courses in order to put together a better section.  We were asked to change courses to fit into a better section and we did.



#14 cirrhosis of the river

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 03:04 AM

It seems kind of silly to do the shore course in a 65,70,86 foot boat with the cove island course just over there to the east. Who ever wins the cove course knows they won the long race.

#15 Polaris

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 11:27 AM

It seems kind of silly to do the shore course in a 65,70,86 foot boat with the cove island course just over there to the east. Who ever wins the cove course knows they won the long race.

 

But not the race overall.



#16 cirrhosis of the river

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 12:36 PM

It seems kind of silly to do the shore course in a 65,70,86 foot boat with the cove island course just over there to the east. Who ever wins the cove course knows they won the long race.
[/quote]
 
But not the race overall.
 
I get that. so what. I can hear people bitching allready,(insert boat name here) doesnt belong on the shore course,racing 30-40 footers



#17 highlife

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 06:08 PM

Why are there not awards for overall for each course?  That seems to make sense.  Overall Shore and Overall Cove 



#18 cirrhosis of the river

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:03 AM

highlife, on 14 Jun 2013 - 14:12, said:
Why are there not awards for overall for each course? That seems to make sense. Overall Shore and Overall Cove

Yes. That would make sense. Lets see what they come up with.

#19 Mr. Squirrel

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 06:10 AM

So this is what this is all about

 

621e36d6a25f1fe8aea4170e608df678.jpeg

 

The J.L. Hudson Trophy will be presented to the boat with the best corrected time on the course with the most boats.  Pretty hokey if you ask me.

 

MS



#20 Skull & Bones

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 01:49 AM

So this is what this is all about

 

621e36d6a25f1fe8aea4170e608df678.jpeg

 

The J.L. Hudson Trophy will be presented to the boat with the best corrected time on the course with the most boats.  Pretty hokey if you ask me.

 

MS

The only course should be the Cove course



#21 cirrhosis of the river

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:21 AM

Back in the day the shore course was the only choice. This year will be my 33rd BYC Mac race.  We have had a few different courses but the only one I have NEVER done is the shore course. I take the shore course on the way home.



#22 zvikingz

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 02:27 PM

The shore course should be for cruising classes only.



#23 Polaris

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:06 PM

You boys have not raced the Shore course before, it is actually just as challenging.  Inshore or Offshore, getting around Thunder Bay point, clearing Bois Blanc as an obstacle to get to Mackinac.  I wouldn't discount it.  The Cove course has a longer beat, but also favors boats that are 70 feet or over winning the last 9 out 10 overalls.  Race it before you knock it.  I would prefer something in between like rounding both weather buoys, but having everybody on the same original course would be my wish.  Looks like they moved the big boys out of PHRF D.



#24 Grinder

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:45 PM

Turbo & shore course. Still gay.

#25 glexpress

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:02 PM

I don't see what the big deal is for two reasons. One is anyone with half a brain could have seen this coming and two owners are being allowed to sign their boat up for whatever course they want. Their boat, their money, their choice.

It boils down to what that owner wants, a longer/shorter course, a class with more similar boats or a good shot at winning class or OA.

Now don't pile on all the boats going up the shore, see my second point above. There are a good number of those faster boats on the shore who want to race against either their OD class or more sensible PHRF class. To do that they need to race the shore. It's not everyone's first choice.

Yes all of this is silly, no it shouldn't surprise anyone and its really up to the owners discretion.

#26 Monkey

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:16 PM


You boys have not raced the Shore course before, it is actually just as challenging.  Inshore or Offshore, getting around Thunder Bay point, clearing Bois Blanc as an obstacle to get to Mackinac.  I wouldn't discount it.  The Cove course has a longer beat, but also favors boats that are 70 feet or over winning the last 9 out 10 overalls.  Race it before you knock it.  I would prefer something in between like rounding both weather buoys, but having everybody on the same original course would be my wish.  Looks like they moved the big boys out of PHRF D.


I did the shore course on a GL70 the year that was our only choice. It was just dumb. We arrived middle of the day to a nearly empty marina. I've sailed Queens Cups that took longer than that Mac. I don't mean to imply it isn't a tactical course. It's just too short for the big boats.

#27 cirrhosis of the river

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:06 PM

I have nothing agianst the shore course, I just think boats like the turbo boats would want the longer course.



#28 goblew

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:54 PM

With the longer Cove course available with more tactical options available, it seems the only reason to go to the Shore course is chasing the pickle dish.  I'd hope that's not their primary motivation for racing. 



#29 cirrhosis of the river

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 04:43 PM

But it is goblew what else could it be?



#30 Shaggy

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 05:14 PM

When is the chi mack this year??  If biggies did Chi mac first maybe they just want shorter more tactical then home hense the shore course?  Or if chi mac after just go on through and don't stop till the Chicago start??    Aren't they like a week apart?



#31 Grinder

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 05:16 PM

Chicago race 1st.

#32 Skull & Bones

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 07:27 PM

I see now that they have a "Turbo Shore course" with three boats in it. "everybody gets a flag!!!!"



#33 Geff

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 08:01 PM

I see now that they have a "Turbo Shore course" with three boats in it. "everybody gets a flag!!!!"

 

When that happens, only one flag is given.  And sometimes, not even that.  Trust me, I know...and have had it happen on several occasions in big races.



#34 ropetrick

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 08:05 PM

I see now that they have a "Turbo Shore course" with three boats in it. "everybody gets a flag!!!!"

A Special Olympics Regatta.......er...Race.



#35 Skull & Bones

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 11:19 PM

I see now that they have a "Turbo Shore course" with three boats in it. "everybody gets a flag!!!!"

A Special Olympics Regatta.......er...Race.

T-ball



#36 barleymalt

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 11:32 PM


You boys have not raced the Shore course before, it is actually just as challenging.  Inshore or Offshore, getting around Thunder Bay point, clearing Bois Blanc as an obstacle to get to Mackinac.  I wouldn't discount it.  The Cove course has a longer beat, but also favors boats that are 70 feet or over winning the last 9 out 10 overalls.  Race it before you knock it.  I would prefer something in between like rounding both weather buoys, but having everybody on the same original course would be my wish.  Looks like they moved the big boys out of PHRF D.

I did the shore course on a GL70 the year that was our only choice. It was just dumb. We arrived middle of the day to a nearly empty marina. I've sailed Queens Cups that took longer than that Mac. I don't mean to imply it isn't a tactical course. It's just too short for the big boats.

That was the Thunder Bay Course, not the Shore Course.

#37 billy backstay

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:03 AM

So, how is my old pal Bill Alcott doing?  I see that Equation is in the class with the big dogs.

 

But. no women crew on board??

 

When he came east in 95 (I think?) for block Island Race Week,  with the RP50, it was with half a boatload of lovely women sailors, all just off the previous years America Cubed, AC program.

 

Our PHRF rating was dead nuts even with Dennis Conners F1 "Stars and Stripes", so we basically match raced with them, in a fleet context.

 

I remember our Canadian helmsman, "Boner" starting with a hangover, and Stu Argo suggesting that he luff up Dennis a bit, so he couldn't live there, in all the bad air.

 

Sure enough, DC had to tack away and take a shitload of transoms while on port tack immediately after the start!!  LOL!!!

 

One of the best days of racing in memory!!....

 

 

Cheers to you Bill, and Equation Crew if you happen to catch this.....



#38 Tax Man

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 11:36 AM

On Lake Ontario the cutoff to do the short course with a spinnaker is 168 and that is 300 miles.  Grow a pair.

 

Even the J35's and 36.7's should have to wear skirts for doing the short course.



#39 mad

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:52 PM

soap freighter...love it!

 

210 NM for a Volvo 70 in a big southerly...how about a 12 hour Mack?

Got your pinks flag ready?? No

 

Maybe one of these will work instead

Gay_Pride_Flag__WithIcons__by_AllThatJaz



#40 old bow

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 02:17 PM

The cove vs shore course dog has been beat to death. As a long time competitor in level 35 class of course we would rather do cove but what can you do when the class votes for the shore? We prefer racing level so droping out of level 35 to do cove sticks us in PHRF, and you know friends don't let race PHRF 



#41 NorCalLaser

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:23 PM

given the massive performance delta amongst the shore course competitors, would there be any harm in spacing out the starts more than usual? ie- start the big dogs late in the afternoon on saturday, in order to have a closer delta of finish times?



#42 cirrhosis of the river

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 02:02 PM

That sounds like a good idea NorCalLaser. I hope I get to see them come through the fleet.



#43 NorCalLaser

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 07:43 PM

That sounds like a good idea NorCalLaser. I hope I get to see them come through the fleet.

me too



#44 VwaP

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 07:47 PM

What is a cruising division?

#45 Grinder

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 02:59 PM

Turbo Shore. Still gay.

#46 ramwel2010

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:19 PM

What is a cruising division?

intended for families and entry level owners. dominated by chest pounding ego freak pink pony warriors. lame.



#47 chosenspeed

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:01 PM

Why did they create a shore course racing class?  You couldn't fly a spinnaker off a pole on the shore course until this year.  Now there are only 42 boats on Cove Island course.  The rest are doing the shore course.  Seems ridiculous.    Does this have anything to do with the recent hassles associated with going into Canadian waters?



#48 Monkey

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 10:59 PM



You boys have not raced the Shore course before, it is actually just as challenging.  Inshore or Offshore, getting around Thunder Bay point, clearing Bois Blanc as an obstacle to get to Mackinac.  I wouldn't discount it.  The Cove course has a longer beat, but also favors boats that are 70 feet or over winning the last 9 out 10 overalls.  Race it before you knock it.  I would prefer something in between like rounding both weather buoys, but having everybody on the same original course would be my wish.  Looks like they moved the big boys out of PHRF D.

I did the shore course on a GL70 the year that was our only choice. It was just dumb. We arrived middle of the day to a nearly empty marina. I've sailed Queens Cups that took longer than that Mac. I don't mean to imply it isn't a tactical course. It's just too short for the big boats.
That was the Thunder Bay Course, not the Shore Course.
Wait, so there's Cove Island, Shore, AND Thunder Bay? I need to pay more attention. That's nuts that the turbo class is taking an even shorter route!

#49 J35 Crew

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 11:47 PM

I've sailed in the last 10 PH to Mac's, there used to be a Southampton course and a Shore Course. Then Southampton was abandoned, and the Thunder Bay course was introduced, which entailed rounding a mark off Thunder Bay, for all classes. That lasted two years or so, then Cove Island was resurrected, with most boats doing that course, and mostly cruisers and small boats doing the traditional Shore course. Then Bayview decided to allow skippers to choose the course they wanted, and that's when all the weirdness started. A couple J-35's defected out of the class, Big PHRF boats went to the shore, in my opinion, flag hunting. I spoke with an official at Bayview this year, hoping to get the J-35's back on the Cove Island course, but was really too late with the rules that are still in place. It was indicated that in the future, there may be a "speed limit" imposed that if your boat is so fast, or in other words, rates X or faster, you will be required to race Cove. Another possibility was Cove would be abandoned altogether once again, and only one course offered. A shame, as I I've race all the courses ever offered, and found that I enjoy Cove Island the most. The boat I race on prefers One Design (J/T-35) so we go where the fleet goes, otherwise we're racing in a PHRF fleet. Also, there was resistance to the short-lived IRC rating system, so some boats opted for the Shore course where IRC wasn't used for some classes. It got pretty crazy. Being that I race One Design, I'm satisfied with PHRF, and wish for the "speed limit" option in the future, hopefully getting a majority of boats back on the Cove Island course.



#50 Mr. Squirrel

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 11:53 PM

Turbo Shore Course.  At least no one ever need ask "When did the BYC Mack Race jump the shark?"

 

MS






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