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symmetric spinnaker solo singlehand assym

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#1 Ajax

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:37 PM

While not nearly exciting as America's Cup, I finally figured out how to solo my symmetric spinnaker yesterday.

 

 

For now, I only have a crappy "tiller tamer" and my lines are all at the mast, so there was some scurrying forward and aft in order to get it all done. I've pretty much had it with flaky crew, so I'm dedicated to learning how to handle my Pearson 30 by myself. Foolish Muse (Olson 30) has given me inspiration and his guide was very helpful. This'll get me to the point where even one or two crew will seem luxurious, and I can stop "herding cats".

 

Hey, less weight and more rum for me!

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#2 4knotSB

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 02:47 PM

Whatever happened with the tiller pilot? (Though in your position , I'd think a blonde might be more fun.)



#3 Just a Skosh

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 02:49 PM

Congrats!  That's pretty awesome!!!



#4 DoRag

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 03:32 PM

Congrats!  That's pretty awesome!!!

 

 

"Awesome" - not really.



#5 Timo42

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 06:25 PM

Rag, don't you have some foreigners to abuse?



#6 DoRag

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 06:32 PM

Rag, don't you have some foreigners to abuse?

 

Actually, Ajax is, indeed, a foreigner.

 

Hence, the comment.



#7 mad

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 06:37 PM


Rag, don't you have some foreigners to abuse?

 
Actually, Ajax is, indeed, a foreigner.
 
Hence, the comment.
You are a very sad, bitter fuck of a man.

As protected poster, I guess you can get away with it.

#8 GnarlyItWas

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 08:04 PM

Respect, not an easy thing to do. I haven't read all your posts but it seems to me that you are relatively new to all this and have incredible enthusiasm and very close to having having to better skills than most of the keyboard hero's here. Including me who needs some time to find more time on the water as someone who used to be a pretty good sailor! 



#9 DoRag

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 08:28 PM

 


Rag, don't you have some foreigners to abuse?

 
Actually, Ajax is, indeed, a foreigner.
 
Hence, the comment.
You are a very sad, bitter fuck of a man.

As protected poster, I guess you can get away with it.

 

 

I don't know what your problem is, but I bet it's hard to pronounce.



#10 Joli

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 09:58 PM

Rag, Exactly How Do You Gain Anything By Stealing Dignity From A Man?

#11 DoRag

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:03 PM

Rag, Exactly How Do You Gain Anything By Stealing Dignity From A Man?

 

 

It's a thankless job, but I have a lot of Karma to burn off.



#12 Joli

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:37 PM

Carry On, You're Doing A Great Job.

#13 Ajax

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:57 AM

I have him on ignore, so no worries and no quoting him, please.

 

For single and double handed racing, I've considered an asym to make things easier, but my understanding is that for an assym to be really effective, you really should have a sprit.  I know there's kits out there, but I don't think I want to go that route.  I've seen the ATN Tacker thing, but I think that's for boats that have roller furling jibs for the Tacker to slide up and down on. I have hank on jibs, so that wouldn't work.

 

Then, there's the issue of design. Asyms work great for boats designed for downwind sailing, but I'm not sure if a P30 would reap the same benefits or it would be better sailed deep, with a traditional symmetric.  I don't have an unlimited budget for experimenting. All the local P30's are raced with symmetrics, so that's where I'm taking my cue from.

 

I'm looking forward to more practice, and smoothing things out.



#14 Ryley

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:54 AM

Ajax,

have a conversation with someone like Scott Gibbs at Evolution. You'd be amazed how deep you can go with an asym these days, and for single or double handing there is nothing as easy. You can probably even get away without a sprit if the sail is engineered right. 

 

I'm glad you got the sym up. Did you gybe it yet? that might be a little tricky with a tiller tamer, but it can be done. just choose your conditions to attempt the first few. :)



#15 Ajax

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 02:06 AM

Ah, no gybing yet. The wind was carrying me where I wanted to go, and I didn't want to press my luck on the first day. I will though. :)



#16 Flashbrah

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 02:34 AM

-Go to bar the night before,

-talk to girls,

-mention that you have a boat,

-invite them sailing

 

BAM - instant crew, just add water.

 

 

 

60% of the time it works every time.

 

EDIT: lol jks, I'm on bow... Works 100% of time



#17 Timo42

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 03:30 AM

Considering the clusterfuk I have made of my spinnaker at times doublehanded, I applaud your success, set up a Gopro next time, you could label it "Busier than a one legged man in an asskicking contest." :P



#18 Ajax

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 11:07 AM

Considering the clusterfuk I have made of my spinnaker at times doublehanded, I applaud your success, set up a Gopro next time, you could label it "Busier than a one legged man in an asskicking contest." :P

 

Actually, I did. I'm just not posting it here. :lol:



#19 NoStrings

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 06:15 PM

I have him on ignore, so no worries and no quoting him, please.
 
For single and double handed racing, I've considered an asym to make things easier, but my understanding is that for an assym to be really effective, you really should have a sprit.  I know there's kits out there, but I don't think I want to go that route.  I've seen the ATN Tacker thing, but I think that's for boats that have roller furling jibs for the Tacker to slide up and down on. I have hank on jibs, so that wouldn't work.
 
Then, there's the issue of design. Asyms work great for boats designed for downwind sailing, but I'm not sure if a P30 would reap the same benefits or it would be better sailed deep, with a traditional symmetric.  I don't have an unlimited budget for experimenting. All the local P30's are raced with symmetrics, so that's where I'm taking my cue from.
 
I'm looking forward to more practice, and smoothing things out.


I fly my asymms off of my pole, just like my symmetrical. All gybes are outside though. Oh, and you'll need a new bow pulpit to make room at the stem for your tack line to articulate. I have pics.

#20 Sheethead

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:52 PM

Nice man! Let us see the video, we won't tell DB...

 

Tried the Genaker this weekend double handing the x372, that was enough of a pain in the ass! Might wait a while before we try the symetrical spin, can't even wrap my mind around that...



#21 mcsailor0303

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:57 PM

DUDE! Nice work!  Keep it up!



#22 bhyde

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 08:02 PM

Ajax,

 

Congrats, first couple of times single-handing with the kite can be pretty traumatizing. Especially when it all goes wrong. If you haven't already, you may want to read this (free, online) book by Andrew Evans http://www.sfbaysss....hirdEdition.pdf. Even though it's more for offshore distance sailing, and includes a lot of info on prep and mentality, the techniques are useful anytime. Skip to chapter 7 to dive into the "How to" for single-handing.



#23 Diarmuid

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 08:55 PM

Ajax,

 

Congrats, first couple of times single-handing with the kite can be pretty traumatizing. Especially when it all goes wrong. If you haven't already, you may want to read this (free, online) book by Andrew Evans http://www.sfbaysss....hirdEdition.pdf. Even though it's more for offshore distance sailing, and includes a lot of info on prep and mentality, the techniques are useful anytime. Skip to chapter 7 to dive into the "How to" for single-handing.

 

Humm.  May want to start with Chapter 2, which includes the following subtitles:

 

  • Emotions and crying
  • Stress and coping
  • Hallucinations and voices
  • Psychological breakdown

That sorted -- NOW you are ready for Chapter 7.;)

 

Most of my attempts at flying a spi solo have included some elements of that list.  Good job.



#24 hard aground

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 01:07 AM

Didn't intend to but thanks to a wind shift and a drop in pressure I dragged the kite out singlehanded today too.

 

9079079655_9cb4aa2032.jpg

 

It shifted some more later so I had to gybe.

 

Twice. :angry:



#25 stickboy

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 01:22 AM

:angry: hmm, you're going asym. How did I miss that.



#26 Ajax

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:34 AM

:angry: hmm, you're going asym. How did I miss that.

 

Just inquiring, I'm probably not.  I'm already set up for symmetric, I can't use an ATN tacker, and I'm not installing a temporary sprit.

Besides, I love the new juggling act.



Didn't intend to but thanks to a wind shift and a drop in pressure I dragged the kite out singlehanded today too.

 

9079079655_9cb4aa2032.jpg

 

It shifted some more later so I had to gybe.

 

Twice. :angry:

 

Awesome shot! I love to see people getting it done!



#27 Bump-n-Grind

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 03:45 AM

video of the gybes or it didn't happen.. ya can't just mirror image the still pic :P



#28 Diarmuid

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 05:36 AM

:angry: hmm, you're going asym. How did I miss that.

 

Just inquiring, I'm probably not.  I'm already set up for symmetric, I can't use an ATN tacker, and I'm not installing a temporary sprit.

Besides, I love the new juggling act.

When juggling gets old, it's time for that tiller pilot.;) Honestly, it takes so much of the effort & drama out of (moderate wind) spinnaker sailing if the boat steers a reliable heading while you are dancing the foredeck tango. Takes the drama out of lots of things.  You probably have more immediate re-fit priorities right now, but it sounds like you really are ready for some self-steering.  We feel, and you often hear it said, that it's the boat upgrade we wish we'd made three years earlier.:)


If you need higher justification, here's mine: we keep better watch with the autopilot.  And we are less fatigued at the end of a trip.  It's a safety thing.;)



#29 Ajax

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 03:55 PM

Oh I'm totally ready for an ST2000. It's just a money issue.



#30 toddster

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 04:51 PM

You probably also saw in the Evans book, diagrams for making a self-steering setup from a spare storm jib and a couple of blocks.  I've got that on my list of things to try out.  

 

Cruising spinnaker is next on my program, but I just got finished paying for the new main (dayum!  so that's how it's supposed to work!) But... there do seem to be several old symmetricals in my size listed for two or three hundred.  Wouldn't hurt too much to destroy one of those, I guess...  The problem with sailing on the Columbia is that half the time, your course runs DDW and if you're reaching around it, you gotta gybe frequently and efficiently to avoid running into the rocks, the fishing boats, the oil tankers...  



#31 hard aground

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 02:31 AM

Whilst trimming the kite this evening I've come up with the 6 P's of single handed spinnaker work:

Plan

Prepare

Practice

Put it up

Pull it the fuck down

Pray to Jesus everything works out



#32 Ajax

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:22 AM

The first two "P's" are where 95% of the battle is won, and it's before you even cast a line off the dock.

 

I figured out the wind and had everything rigged before I left. When it was time to fly, it was just "Pole up, pre-feed the guy, set the sail".

It would suck to be running sheets and everything while bouncing around out there.



#33 Diarmuid

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 03:36 PM

Whilst trimming the kite this evening I've come up with the 6 P's of single handed spinnaker work:

Plan

Prepare

Practice

Put it up

Pull it the fuck down

Pray to Jesus everything works out

In the mountains, we have a similar regimen:

 

Ponder more sail

Persuade self or crew

Pull spi out of deep stowage

Put it up

POW! 50 kts from random direction

Panic (Optional: Piss self)

Pull it down

Put back in deep stowage

Promise self or crew, never again



#34 clamslapper

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 04:45 PM

I was a guest on a Bene 36.7 that sailed in a `~30 mile phrf race on Raritan Bay NJ a couple years ago.  We were fully crewed and raced in the spin division.  We were amazed to see a guy do the whole race singlehanded in a J24 with a spinnaker.  I asked him after the race and he would just tie the tiller off for a few seconds, run up and get the thing jibed, and carry on.  Really made it look easy although as I recall he had major problems with the takedown.  Downwind in mild breeze he seemed to really fly but then it got very windy and the poor guy got creamed on the return upwind leg as he was out there alone, stuck with his genoa up and the boat really heeling badly.  What a slog.  It was a good performance though.  We gave the guy a standing ovation when he finally finished.







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