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What Should Artemis do?


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Poll: What Should Artemis do? (116 member(s) have cast votes)

What Should Artemis do?

  1. Artemis should withdraw. (46 votes [39.66%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 39.66%

  2. Artemis should compete. (70 votes [60.34%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 60.34%

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#1 baygrass

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 02:54 PM

What Should Artemis do? 

 

What is practical? What's safe? Does it help the event? Does it help one team more than another? I made only two answers here their are way to many shades of grey on this topic. Ultimately its their decision not ours. 



#2 Rennmaus

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 03:01 PM

What Should Artemis do? 

 

What is practical? What's safe? Does it help the event? Does it help one team more than another? I made only two answers here their are way to many shades of grey on this topic. 

 

Then you could have added yellow, red, orange (fast!), green and blue  ;) .

My orange vote: Stick to the initial rules. They've been agreed and signed ages ago, and all teams should have planned accordingly. If not, well, tough luck.

 

Attached File  2cts.jpg   2.87K   3 downloads



#3 nav

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 03:56 PM

This is the U.S.A.: cut and thrust, devil take the hindmost, let the best rise to the top, the rewards go to the innovators, lift yourself by your boot-straps, you can succeed by your own efforts no matter how lowly your birth, market forces rule, performance is what counts, no intervention, no 'Socialism', Land of the Free, Ooh-Rah! etc etc

 

What do I think they should do?

 

Ask for a 'bailout' of course!



#4 MidPack

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 04:00 PM

If they want to compete in the next AC, they should give it their best and compete in this one despite their setbacks.

If not, it's a cost-benefit decision (they may not save much $ by throwing in the towel). YMMV

#5 dogwatch

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 05:15 PM

If they can't get to a start-line on July 5th as due, they should offer to withdraw. If I hit a traffic jam on the way to the club, that's my bad luck. They don't delay the start for my convenience.

If other challengers are willing to reconfigure the programme to accommodate them, fine.

#6 baygrass

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 05:53 PM

My gut says they should withdraw. Just look at their website they have barley done anything to it. If they decide to stick with it they should put some benchmarks out their, have there sailors out in public. Say they want to compete. If they get out their and say it people will support that. I would put up pictures every day of progress and videos of benchmark days. Let everyone know how hard their path is, but they are going to do it as a team. Their finish line is now the starting line and if they want to make it that far they need to fight for it. That is in the shed, on the water and in the public spot light.
 
They need to clean some of their house right now. 2 broken wings, one broken boat and a death. Bart's profile on the site hasn't changed. They should do something their and let people know how to give to his fund. They need to acknowledge that Bart died more than they have and be open with more details. They need that for their team, for their public support and more importantly the friends and family of Bart. 
 
Its nothing new to have a high dollar team under preform. They have ton's of talent, but something has been missing the whole time. If you work in a high risk endeavors like Mtn climbing, bull riding, race cars and military service you have to be totally confident in the team of people around you. Success is often measured by good decision making in hard situations. I don't blame anyone on that team for not sailing on their boat. Its not the AC72 rule. Take some personal responsibility. If your boat can't handle the conditions, don't sail in them. The changes in the rules lower the event. Other sports are much higher risk and the teams can decide to compete or not. Only you can decide for yourself if the risk is worth it.

#7 jaysper

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 08:19 PM

What Should Artemis do? 

 

What is practical? What's safe? Does it help the event? Does it help one team more than another? I made only two answers here their are way to many shades of grey on this topic. 

 

Then you could have added yellow, red, orange (fast!), green and blue  ;) .

My orange vote: Stick to the initial rules. They've been agreed and signed ages ago, and all teams should have planned accordingly. If not, well, tough luck.

 

attachicon.gif2cts.jpg

 

+1

And by that I mean ALL the rules.

Leave the wind limits, race times and dates every other fricking thing alone.

 

If you can't compete under the terms that have long since been known, then get lost.



#8 pjfranks

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 08:30 PM

this whole thing is now about safety so will AR be allowed to race without enough practice? won't that be dangerous for AR and the other teams?



#9 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 08:38 PM

this whole thing is now about safety so will AR be allowed to race without enough practice? won't that be dangerous for AR and the other teams?

Do you think the USCG could have a look ?



#10 KiwiJoker

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 08:40 PM

A yea or nay vote is far too simplistic and polarising.  I have no problem with cutting Artemis some slack although claiming the option to duck all the round robin is OTT.  But my biggest concern is that we don't know what's going on behind the scenes. lf at this stage they are still sorting out stress testing and structural problems then its probably time to muster some grace and bow out.



#11 ~Stingray~

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 08:56 PM

In case anyone missed this (buried in a thread), it includes Cayard and is from a SF newscast this weekend.



#12 Mark K

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 09:21 PM

If they can't get to a start-line on July 5th as due, they should offer to withdraw. If I hit a traffic jam on the way to the club, that's my bad luck. They don't delay the start for my convenience.

If other challengers are willing to reconfigure the programme to accommodate them, fine.

 

 Was the original rule not showing up for a race = DSQ from the event? If so,  they could tow the hulls out there, yell "Withdrawing due to breakage!", and tow them back for each scheduled race. But would that make the Kiwi's happy? That's the real question. I doubt it.  



#13 jc172528

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 09:50 PM

The next two weeks are pivotal, if AR haven't splashed Blue by the end of the month it's well n truly over. The defensible suddenly becomes indefensible.

 

Given how 'events' are playing out, with rule changes, and the massive conflict between the challengers I think that should OR successfully defend, that attracting challengers to the next AC will be virtually impossible. I don't see any other teams with the lineage of LR or TNZ hanging around.

 

RC has promise a lot for this AC but delivery very little, the viewing public even rely on Navas (thank you Sir!) for video.

I suspect like I, many of you are pretty disappointed.

 

Given the above if TNZ don't win the AC this time I would like to see them draw a line under the AC and focus on other regattas/events -  VOR, TP52s, S2H, MOD 70s, Around the World Record, Speed Record etc. Perhaps moving towards building an 'Extreme Sailing Team'.



#14 ~Stingray~

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:01 PM

Unlike ETNZ, both AR and LR's bosses have already committed to AC35.

I'm still plenty optimistic that whoever wins out and faces OR will be a very, very good Challenger.

#15 jc172528

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:09 PM

Unlike ETNZ, both AR and LR's bosses have already committed to AC35.

I'm still plenty optimistic that whoever wins out and faces OR will be a very, very good Challenger.

 

Perhaps a verbal commitment which is worthless this far out, especially without any info on design rule.

Ask yourself how many 'challengers' were committed to AC34?

 

AR committed to AC35(?), I find that rather amusing considering they're not involved in AC34, as yet.

I suspect that's a feel good throw away comment in the wake of the implosion. 'Yes we'll be back stronger and more unified for the experienced etc, etc, etc............. 



#16 ~Stingray~

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:17 PM

^ The difference between those two commitments, compared to the 23 teams who wanted in to AC34, the 14 who filed challenges for AC34, the 12 whose Challenges were accepted as being from bona fide YC's, and the 10 who publically announced their Challenge acceptances, and the 8 or more who progressed into the ACWS to some degree, is this:

They have Billionaire backers who have the luxury of enjoying much bigger horizons.

Both PB and TT offered that their teams choose to continue with AC34 or not. They already have AC35 plans regardless.

#17 jc172528

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:32 PM

They already have AC35 plans regardless.

 

I would say AR are still working on their AC34 plans -_-



#18 ~Stingray~

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:38 PM

Okay, AC35 'intentions' versus active plans..

There's a good reason for why Bertrand, in a recent article discussing the anniversary of the AUS win in '83, appealed to Australian billionaires. They actually do have the ability to think beyond some little company's advertising budget-years.

#19 jc172528

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:39 PM

What have AR spent, - $120-140m(?), and where are they, still in the shed.

I certainly wouldn't want to be sitting down for that performance review.

 

Bondy bankrolled AUS on the back of his 'little company's earnings'.



#20 icupusa

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:23 AM

In case anyone missed this (buried in a thread), it includes Cayard and is from a SF newscast this weekend.

Yea buried here today at 4:50 pm      http://acworldseries.blogspot.com/2013/06/abc-news-cayard-on-teams-progress.html



#21 dogwatch

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 06:14 AM

Unlike ETNZ, both AR and LR's bosses have already committed to AC35.

When? I've no recollection of either of them making such a commitment.

#22 Indio

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:40 AM

Unlike ETNZ, both AR and LR's bosses have already committed to AC35.

When? I've no recollection of either of them making such a commitment.

Spinray is on the cheap Rumanian pinot again...



#23 Alpina

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:43 AM


Unlike ETNZ, both AR and LR's bosses have already committed to AC35.

When? I've no recollection of either of them making such a commitment.
There's an AC Uncut clip of TT confirming his commitment.

#24 dogwatch

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 08:26 AM

^

 

Thanks. I stopped watching ACU long ago.



#25 Desprit

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 08:50 AM

Unlike ETNZ, both AR and LR's bosses have already committed to AC35.

I'm still plenty optimistic that whoever wins out and faces OR will be a very, very good Challenger.

 

It could be argued that ETNZ is far more  committed to winning AC34 which in and of itself is the highest commitment a team can make to competing in AC35. Because they has a much better chance of winning than AR or LR it is more likely to be committed to participating in AC35 whether they want to or not.

 

On the other hand anything AR or LR say now about competing in AC35 should be viewed as hot air as they have no idea of the location, timing or class of boat they will be required compete in. They can easily opt out citing unexpected terms or conditions something a successful challenger can not do.



#26 waterboy42

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 08:54 AM

The Conspiracy Theorist in me thought OR might be convincing AR to stay in the Cup just long enough to keep ETNZ from becoming COR...

 

but, I trust guys like Ian Percy and think that they would not continue if the intent to race wasn't genuine, and I'm sure those guys really want to race.

 

 

LE & RC would want to salvage as much of a successful outcome to the event as they can for the fans and media (and personal pride)

 

I feel sorry for those that have had their travel and bookings messed up, that was very nearly me..

 

 

Despite the scorn that people have been pouring on the event, I take my hat off to RC & LE for daring to dream these boats up.

 

Even if they all broke up tomorrow and no racing took place, it has been incredible to witness the development of these boats as they race to tame the beasts.

 

 

This is true America's Cup, the finest, fastest and most daring boats people can dream up, plenty of skullduggery (real or imagined)

 

The beauty & intrigue of the Cup is that every syndicate that tries to change, and own the cup gets burned by it, or Schuyler's D.o.G rules, Bond, Connor, TNZ's banana boat, Alinghi...

 

 

How will OR fare with the Poisoned Chalice? Riveting stuff!!



#27 JJD

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 09:22 AM

If there is one element missing from this cup, its wide ranging participation.
As such i dont see how getting rid of AR helps that.
Them missing the RR and sailing straight into the semis....sure thing, if it works for them and there nothings in the rules as they currently sit to force them to sail, fine.
I think this cup will be better for AR's participation no matter how well they compete or not.
Im am certainly dead aginst all of dagger board, wind limit, etc etc etc changes going on. Leave the rules as the rules.

#28 HHN92

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 01:07 PM

I have gained an updated view of AR continuing on into the LV Series at the time and with the ability that they can, which I have believed should be allowed for them;

 

Tomorrow I will be burying my 2 year and three weeks old grandson who, like Andrew 'Bart' Simpson, died by drowning.

 

He never got to sail. He never will, not a pram, a Sunfish, AC, anything. I have a picture of my son and I in the Sunfish when he was almost 2 years old, taken by the owner of the sailing shop in Dunedin, FL, which he had matted, framed, and sent to me. He is sitting in the back of the cockpit with me holding the tiller and extension to clear his head. The picture was in my grandson's room as they had decorated his first bedroom in a sailing theme. My son wanted to re-create that picture with his oldest son, but now that will never happen.

 

I am sure the members of the AR team have gone through many of the emotions I have seen since Saturday morning, the blame, guilt, remorse, the whole gamut. I am keeping an eye on my son and his wife and urge anyone around not to let them venture off alone.

 

Felling the way I do now I cannot see how anyone would not, at least on the human dignity side of the equation, give as much room as possible for these guys to test and assemble their boat, take some time to train, and then allow them the opportunity to sail and go out with their heads held high, even if they never win a race. Being there will be win enough for them, to help ease their pain and hopefully set a base to have a more successful AC35 campaign, if they choose to continue.

 

Being able to compete is more about healing for AR than winning. As big as the AC is, the AC should be not so big that AR cannot be allowed an opportunity. I think it can elevate the AC story higher for the sportsmanship to be shown in allowing AR the time to compete.

 

Please, no pm's, or other replies to this post on the thread, this is not what my post is about. I just got to thinking about AR while ironing the clothes my little grandson will wear for eternity. How he and Bart both died drowning. Your mind goes into strange places sometimes, I did not know Bart but spending so much time on the AC it just came to me, somehow, for some reason.

 

You can aid their memories by supporting, and telling those in the know if possible, the idea that AR should be allowed to compete. If for nothing else so that Bart can look down and be proud of his team.

 

And maybe he can explain it all to my grandson.

 

Make GD first on the list.






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