Jump to content


Video: Artemis, Oracle, Emirates New Zealand, and Optis, June 20 2013


  • Please log in to reply
33 replies to this topic

#1 JNavas

JNavas

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 913 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 05:09 AM

NOAA Wind: http://goo.gl/3ZdQ2 ~ Tide: http://goo.gl/z2J7M

If you get "This video is unavailable", that means it's still being processed!



#2 ita289

ita289

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Location:UK or Italy

Posted 21 June 2013 - 06:05 AM

Thanks. Must be frustrating for the Artemis guys.

 

BTW: I am not expert but the 45 was not designed to foil and looks like a chicken trying to fly.

 

 

 

Hope they will have the 72 ready in time.



#3 Ex-yachtie

Ex-yachtie

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 795 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 07:28 AM

Ha ha, Ya reckon this kayaker took a change of underwear out with him?

Attached Files



#4 umpire

umpire

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,138 posts
  • Location:Edenbridge, UK

Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:01 AM

Another cracking video JN, thanks.

 

Hard to see what Artemis got out of thier day!



#5 LAkiwi

LAkiwi

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts
  • Location:Los Angeles

Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:16 AM

Thanks JN. such great videos.

You may have been asked this before, but what are you shooting these with?



#6 the paradox of thrift

the paradox of thrift

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,375 posts
  • Location:Mos-Vegas
  • Interests:I like sailing

Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:05 AM

Love it. Thanks.



#7 Abraxas3

Abraxas3

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 249 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:18 AM

Thank you for your great videos, much appreciated!

 

This short video is worth watching even if the quality is lacking somewhat: 

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

 

Quite close to another PP at 0:40!



#8 NZL3481

NZL3481

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 691 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:26 AM

Beautiful bit of breeze in the video. Opti's out enjoying the day. A tad over the proposed wind limit for AC 34 though?

 

It would be fucking hilarious if the Ac72's were on the beach while the Opti's got a race or two in as the substitute entertainment. :lol: :lol: :lol:



#9 Indio

Indio

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,712 posts
  • Location:Auckland

Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:42 AM

Thank you for your great videos, much appreciated!

 

This short video is worth watching even if the quality is lacking somewhat: 

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

 

Quite close to another PP at 0:40!

Those close calls might start to create some uncertainties in the team about pushing too hard...



#10 hoom

hoom

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,881 posts
  • Location:Orkland

Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:56 AM

Thanks again JNavas :)

Good upwind shots ^_^

 

Anyone notice the Ls on the new symetrical ETNZ foils?

They are reasonably thick at the turn but quickly taper to a very thin section, Tuna fin type taper & rake in profile.

Definitely much smaller than the mk1 foils.



#11 uflux

uflux

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 602 posts
  • Location:I'm watching you right now...
  • Interests:Windsurfing, Sailing...

Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:22 AM

Great job again. Heaps to keep us going  :)...Thanks again!



#12 uflux

uflux

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 602 posts
  • Location:I'm watching you right now...
  • Interests:Windsurfing, Sailing...

Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:24 AM

Beautiful bit of breeze in the video. Opti's out enjoying the day. A tad over the proposed wind limit for AC 34 though?

 

It would be fucking hilarious if the Ac72's were on the beach while the Opti's got a race or two in as the substitute entertainment. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

That would be rather ironic...especially if it was during live coverage of a delayed start and thats all the commentators had to cover!!



#13 Tony-F18

Tony-F18

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,307 posts
  • Location:+31

Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:25 AM

Thank you for your great videos, much appreciated!

 

This short video is worth watching even if the quality is lacking somewhat: 

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

 

Quite close to another PP at 0:40!

 

How was that even close to a PP?!

Serously, you people need to learn about boats.



#14 Abraxas3

Abraxas3

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 249 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 12:25 PM

Thank you for your great videos, much appreciated!

 

This short video is worth watching even if the quality is lacking somewhat: 

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

 

Quite close to another PP at 0:40!

 

How was that even close to a PP?!

Serously, you people need to learn about boats.

So you say this was all 100 % under control??? 

Fine with me  B)



#15 ~HHN92~

~HHN92~

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,134 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 12:34 PM

Up, up for the Hunter........now down, down down for the kayak..........look-out for the optis, down, up, down, up............now there's a MacGregor.............biiirds!!!



#16 Wandering Geo

Wandering Geo

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,248 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 12:42 PM

 

Thank you for your great videos, much appreciated!

 

This short video is worth watching even if the quality is lacking somewhat: 

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

 

Quite close to another PP at 0:40!

 

How was that even close to a PP?!

Serously, you people need to learn about boats.

So you say this was all 100 % under control??? 

Fine with me  B)

No, some sphincters definitely would have clenched on the boat.

The straight line speed must have the ETNZ boffins a little bit worried tho.

That thing is motoring. 



#17 alibee

alibee

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 27 posts
  • Location:Channel Islands

Posted 21 June 2013 - 12:49 PM

Thank you for your great videos, much appreciated!

 

This short video is worth watching even if the quality is lacking somewhat: 

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

 

Quite close to another PP at 0:40!

 

How was that even close to a PP?!

Serously, you people need to learn about boats.

 

Looks like the windward hull lifted 3-4x it's previous height when the nose buried. Forgive me because I'm getting old but on a rig that can't be depowered quickly I was sure that this sort thing tends to happen shortly before it faceplants. 

 

Thanks for the patronising though.



#18 WetHog

WetHog

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,414 posts
  • Location:Annapolis, MD USA

Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:03 PM

Ha ha, Ya reckon this kayaker took a change of underwear out with him?

 

 

To bad you couldn't get a shot of the kayaker with his arms up as ETNZ is coming his way.  Clearly an "oh shit" moment for both.  :lol:

 

But the sequence, starting at 9:00, with ETNZ dodging the kayaker and then having to change coarse again for the sailboat shows even the mighty ETNZ has their hands full with their boat when forced into unexpected manuvers.  Is this where the benefit of OR having two boats with two crews practicing actual racing going to help a lot?  ETNZ looks stable and formidable when by themselves doing what they want, but that sequence of them dodging around shows them to be slow and clumsy.  Seems clear ETNZ would want to force OR into close combat.  ETNZ looked clumsy in that sequence, but OR would of been a mess, and may have taken out the poor kayaker.  Then again, ETNZ wasn't very strong on the AC45's in match racing during the ACWS so I guess there goes that theory. 

 

The AR clips popping up, after watching either ETNZ or OR race around in their AC72's, is simply sad to see.  Credit to the AR guys for pushing on though.

 

WetHog  :ph34r:



#19 Wandering Geo

Wandering Geo

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,248 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:21 PM

WH, I am less than convinced there is going to be much close contact at all.

ETNZ look fantastic turning corners downhill.

OR seem to me significantly faster upwind, tacking and downhill in a straight line.

Will the spectacle (and speed) of a foiling jibe make up for the perceived (by me) deficits?

If they do balance out, where do the overlaps occur?



#20 WetHog

WetHog

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,414 posts
  • Location:Annapolis, MD USA

Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:44 PM

WH, I am less than convinced there is going to be much close contact at all.

ETNZ look fantastic turning corners downhill.

OR seem to me significantly faster upwind, tacking and downhill in a straight line.

Will the spectacle (and speed) of a foiling jibe make up for the perceived (by me) deficits?

If they do balance out, where do the overlaps occur?

 

Yes, thinking it over I am less than convinced too.  If ETNZ looks clumsy manuvering their boat unexpectantly, then OR would be worse at this point.  So both would avoid actual match racing at all costs. 

 

Well thats why this non-sailor usually stays away from commenting on race tactics. 

 

WetHog  :ph34r:



#21 Capt. K

Capt. K

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 286 posts
  • Location:Indy
  • Interests:Things that float on liquid H20

Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:48 PM

Up, up for the Hunter........now down, down down for the kayak..........look-out for the optis, down, up, down, up............now there's a MacGregor.............biiirds!!!

 

Haha, hilarious.  They were definitely on their toes for that run, and I was on the edge of my seat!

 

Thank you JN!   Very greatly appreciated.  Hopefully today we might get to see some 2 boat testing from OR.



#22 Capt. K

Capt. K

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 286 posts
  • Location:Indy
  • Interests:Things that float on liquid H20

Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:59 PM

If they do balance out, where do the overlaps occur?

 

If OR can't refine their jibes to the level ETNZ has, we may see a few lead changes (assuming ETNZ vs OR in the AC).   From these videos I'd guess we'll see 2  or 3 jibe's per downwind leg (depending on wind direction?).



#23 Wandering Geo

Wandering Geo

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,248 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:03 PM

^

Think Spitballs said in an interview a while ago 2-3 jibes, 3-4 tacks per leg.

 



#24 Capt. K

Capt. K

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 286 posts
  • Location:Indy
  • Interests:Things that float on liquid H20

Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:25 PM

Anyone else catch the kayaker getting buzzed by OR and chase boat at 7:54 - 7:56?   I bet his adrenaline was going.



#25 us772

us772

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 493 posts
  • Location:Mt USA
  • Interests:Build and sail fast stuff- Dirtboats iceboats catamarans windsurfers
    Catch waves fish and snowboard
    Perceived truth of most adrenaline junkies - "The older I am the faster I went".

Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:33 PM

Thanks. Must be frustrating for the Artemis guys.

 

BTW: I am not expert but the 45 was not designed to foil and looks like a chicken trying to fly.

 

 

 

Hope they will have the 72 ready in time.

I think the Torben? was on the helm for the first time



#26 JNavas

JNavas

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 913 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:36 PM

Thanks JN. such great videos.

You may have been asked this before, but what are you shooting these with?

 

Panasonic DMC-FZ150 -- fantastic stabilized Leica super-zoom lens, able to record Full HD video at 60 fps progressive.

 

Bear in mind that a very long lens compresses distance, so boats are not actually as close together as they look. :o

 

Beautiful bit of breeze in the video. Opti's out enjoying the day. A tad over the proposed wind limit for AC 34 though?

It would be fucking hilarious if the Ac72's were on the beach while the Opti's got a race or two in as the substitute entertainment. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Wind was only 8+ kt when I started shooting, but built rapidly to 12-14 kt and then 14-16 kt, still comfortably under the proposed wind limit.

 

Thanks to all for your kind words. :)



#27 GauchoGreg

GauchoGreg

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,623 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:47 PM

 

Thank you for your great videos, much appreciated!

 

This short video is worth watching even if the quality is lacking somewhat: 

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

 

Quite close to another PP at 0:40!

 

How was that even close to a PP?!

Serously, you people need to learn about boats.

 

Looks like the windward hull lifted 3-4x it's previous height when the nose buried. Forgive me because I'm getting old but on a rig that can't be depowered quickly I was sure that this sort thing tends to happen shortly before it faceplants. 

 

Thanks for the patronising though.

 

I don't think Tony was patronizing.  He has experience on multis, obviously, and any of us that do know that sometimes the bows will be going under a bit, but there is a big difference between the bow going under a bit and throwing up a ton of spray and actually digging in deep to the point where rudders start popping out and control is lost.  I agree with Tony, it did not look even close to losing control in this example, as the sterns stayed pretty low.  Just a nice hose down for the crew.



#28 JNavas

JNavas

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 913 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:57 PM

Close quarters!

 

k6q9.jpg

 

tw8v.jpg



#29 JNavas

JNavas

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 913 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:06 PM

Thank you for your great videos, much appreciated!

...
Quite close to another PP at 0:40!

How was that even close to a PP?!

Serously, you people need to learn about boats.

Looks like the windward hull lifted 3-4x it's previous height when the nose buried. Forgive me because I'm getting old but on a rig that can't be depowered quickly I was sure that this sort thing tends to happen shortly before it faceplants. 

Thanks for the patronising though.

 

I don't think Tony was patronizing.  He has experience on multis, obviously, and any of us that do know that sometimes the bows will be going under a bit, but there is a big difference between the bow going under a bit and throwing up a ton of spray and actually digging in deep to the point where rudders start popping out and control is lost.  I agree with Tony, it did not look even close to losing control in this example, as the sterns stayed pretty low.  Just a nice hose down for the crew.

 

Bear in mind that foils like these can increase the risk of pitchpoling -- when the angle of attack of the boat goes negative, the angle of attack of the foils can also go negative (depending on rake), pulling the front of the boat down into the water instead of lifting it.



#30 GauchoGreg

GauchoGreg

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,623 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:24 PM

 

Thank you for your great videos, much appreciated!

...
Quite close to another PP at 0:40!

How was that even close to a PP?!

Serously, you people need to learn about boats.

Looks like the windward hull lifted 3-4x it's previous height when the nose buried. Forgive me because I'm getting old but on a rig that can't be depowered quickly I was sure that this sort thing tends to happen shortly before it faceplants. 

Thanks for the patronising though.

 

I don't think Tony was patronizing.  He has experience on multis, obviously, and any of us that do know that sometimes the bows will be going under a bit, but there is a big difference between the bow going under a bit and throwing up a ton of spray and actually digging in deep to the point where rudders start popping out and control is lost.  I agree with Tony, it did not look even close to losing control in this example, as the sterns stayed pretty low.  Just a nice hose down for the crew.

 

Bear in mind that foils like these can increase the risk of pitchpoling -- when the angle of attack of the boat goes negative, the angle of attack of the foils can also go negative (depending on rake), pulling the front of the boat down into the water instead of lifting it.

 

In scene we are talking about, the boat stayed pretty flat.  You need to see a significant angle, with the bows digging very deep, before the foils start pulling the boat down significantly.  One of the reasons the boards are being moved back further is to eliminate the issue you bring up from being a significant factor.  In essence, the further you move the boards back, the more they pull the stern ends down, rather than pulling the noses down.

 

As Tony said, in the scene we are talking about here, the boat was submarining a bit, which is different than stubbing its toe hard.  The problem is that the water slams the beams and creates incredible drag, but I just don't see where THIS instance was one where the boat was in any jeopardy of PPing.



#31 Tornado-Cat

Tornado-Cat

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,717 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:28 PM

The reason why there was no risk of pp was because wind was light, sea flat, foil lifting and jib eased.

Still, it's easy to talk afterward, when the bow digs in nobody can really tell what happens, and it happens in a fraction of a second.



#32 GauchoGreg

GauchoGreg

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,623 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:41 PM

The reason why there was no risk of pp was because wind was light, sea flat, foil lifting and jib eased.

Still, it's easy to talk afterward, when the bow digs in nobody can really tell what happens, and it happens in a fraction of a second.

 

But as a multi-guy, yourself, you have to admit that we see a lot of comments about any time a boat submarines a bit that it is almost going over again, and most of the time, those comments are over-reactions. 



#33 fogmachine

fogmachine

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 209 posts
  • Location:SF Bay Area
  • Interests:Stirring things up from the poop deck.

Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:53 PM

Adding to JN's awesome video:

 

ETNZ

 

OTUSA (with a cameo by JN himself)

 



#34 JNavas

JNavas

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 913 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 04:03 PM

Adding to JN's awesome video:

 

ETNZ

 

OTUSA (with a cameo by JN himself)

 

Cool! :D






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users