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MOD 70 Spindrift over


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#1 Doug Lord

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 06:56 PM

Capsized:  http://forums.sailin...howtopic=147929



#2 ProaSailor

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 10:17 PM



#3 Xlot

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 10:29 PM

Skipper Yann Guichard's brother Jacques suffered a broken pelvis, and both were briefly trapped under the trampoline ..

#4 trimariner

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 02:04 AM

Flying too high, from the beginning of footage, official team statement is, too quick and too late to do anything!!! Great shame especially at this stage of the tour, wish Jacques a speedy recovery.



#5 pjadams

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 08:05 PM

Something must have happened to prevent them from blowing the mainsheet.

#6 vmg

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:20 AM

Starting to get negative comments on the like of Youtube.

Multihulls have been flipping out for years, its just that no-one was watching then!



#7 Lat 18

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:22 PM

Something must have happened to prevent them from blowing the mainsheet.

I believe those boats have hydrolic  mainsheets which are not fast to blow. Mostly they blow the traveler, but I didn't see the traveler eased before they went over. Hand holding the traveler line is usual in windy conditions.



#8 samc99us

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:16 PM

Glad everyone is OK.

 

Both main and traveler should be in hand on any multihull when reaching in breeze. Still, that puff was very quick, not going to second guess the team of pros.

 

Is 30 kts really the wind limit on these boats? I'd think a 70' ocean racing machine could handle more.



#9 bush sailer

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:24 PM

There must have been a steering problem. They bore away in the gust instead of feathering. Also dumping the traveller in a big gust on a powered up multi does not depower the boat enough to prevent capsize.

#10 DtM

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:40 PM

Perhaps this is not the thread for it but comment in various places (including this thread) open the debate as to whether, putting aside easing the sheet and traveller, they should have pulled away or feathered.

 

Comments on other threads suggest that because the TWA was pretty much 90 degrees that that would be a difficult decision. These are serious pros so I guess they took what they thought was the correct action.

 

Would the decision be different if the main were somehow jammed?



#11 EarthBM

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 11:10 PM

Bearaway in any TWA >70 I'd say. Decrease AWS and as importantly have the centrifugal force work to push the flying hull down

#12 Trevor B

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:18 AM

With the rig raked to windward you cannot release the traveller, it is all on the mainsheet.
Also, from the video it looks like it was purely driver error. He tried to bear away to depower when he was above the zone and should have headed up instead. It happens, even to good guys.

#13 PIL007

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:33 AM

to suggest you know with that footage is seriously laughable



#14 Tornado_ALIVE

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:25 AM

I am not a big multi sailor...... But someone who was once told me that due to the weight aloft, it is necessary at times to steer the platform back under the rig. If you round it up, the inertia could put you on your side. That said, you also need to get the pressure out of the rig.



#15 Tornado_ALIVE

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:27 AM

BTW, when the hull gets that high, you don't have a lot of steerage........



#16 Presuming Ed

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:17 AM

How come everybody's here, rather than being flown over in private jets for the MOD circuit? That Yann Guichard bloke - come on, what does he know about sailing multihulls? He's obviously a hack, isn't he?

#17 mad

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:24 AM

to suggest you know with that footage is seriously laughable

Awwww, com'on how can 5000 armchair sailors be wrong? :P



#18 diggler

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:02 PM

With the rig raked to windward you cannot release the traveller, it is all on the mainsheet.

 

The above statement is grossly incorrect. There are many ways of ensuring the travellers on canted rigs don't bind, the typical big buck French approach being a traveller that is curved in two dimensions, as is used on the MOD70s.

 

This video shows very clearly the compound curved traveller being eased in response to flying the main hull too high:

http://www.routedesp...tv.html#x10rccw

The compound curve of the traveller can be better seen in this photo:

http://www.flickr.co...484124/sizes/k/

 

You can also see the 1:1 hydraulic mainsheet Lat 18 mentioned. The 1:1 hydraulics are slow on the Extreme 40s, anyone know for sure that they are slow on the MODs?

 

With respect to Spindrift, as others have said these guys, Yann in particular, are very experienced sailors so seconding guessing which direction the helm went when the gust hit  is pretty fucking arrogant. Doesn't mean something pretty innocuous or embarassing for big gun pros like an override on the traveller winch wasn't the cause of their woes, the mainsail not budging the entire way over, especially in light of how quick they blew the jib, certainly suggests  some sort of a technical issue. Hopefully they eventually share more detailed info on the events leading up to the capsize so we can all learn from it.



#19 BeachbumII

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:13 PM

At least on the start of extreme 40's  hydraulics were 1:2. I was visiting Marström during the first trials of Holmatro and got pretty good shots from the boat. There was a block on the end of the pull arm so the hydraulics are actuallly pulling a ropeloop. The end of the loop can be released with 1:1 purchase. Maybe this release system  was too violent for the rigging, or required exessive force to open, I dont know.



#20 pwormwood

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:56 PM

From the smooth water and comments, it sounds like these guys were sailing in the lee of some bit of land.  Sailing under the lee of any sort of land features - hills, valleys, trees, buildings,... - is always dangerous because sometimes the puffs hit you before they hit the water - you don't see them coming... From the head on shot you can see that they were already flying the main hull pretty high when the second puff popped them over.  As pointed out earlier, steering would have been diminished as the stronger puff hit, flying the hull that high.  In addition,  at that attitude the weather ama (float, hull, whatever...) would be blocking the helmsman's view of the inbound pressure increases.  The side view of the 3 boats ahead, shows a weird little puff shiver its way through the fleet right before Spindrift goes over. With the ama in the way, the helmsman wouldn't see it coming...AND the mainsheet should have been already on it's way out from the first puff when the second one hit...seems to me...



#21 Corley_

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:22 PM

With a canting rig the boat remains powered up at higher angles of heel which would seem to be a major contributor to this capsize.  I'm not suggesting they shouldn't have them just observing that it does increase the risk. On a trimaran with a fixed rig as the boat heels the rig depowers.  Having said that canting the rig to windward does have some beneficial stability characteristics as well.



#22 DtM

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:49 PM

Looking at the three in front and what happened in the gust.

 

Oman seems to pull away while Vibrac feathers.

 

Guess that bears out the comments in this and the other thread that in the "zone" it is a choice and either may be right (or wrong).



#23 bullock

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:57 PM

Bearaway in any TWA >70 I'd say. Decrease AWS and as importantly have the centrifugal force work to push the flying hull down


No in these boats the " escape route" is up all the way to TWA 100 at least. You can ease Trav and Main in really big puffs to depower and luff. It looked to me like neither was eased and the helmsman went the wrong way.

The helm will tell the crew where the escape is, up and main is eased, down and main is held, just Trav eased. If main is eased and boat pulled down, it opens the head of the main and can cause a tripping. In fact in some conditions you depower by holding main central on both and get the boat down to TWA 140+

#24 THOR

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 05:05 PM

Thats about how I sail my cruiser :-)

 

Bearaway in any TWA >70 I'd say. Decrease AWS and as importantly have the centrifugal force work to push the flying hull down


No in these boats the " escape route" is up all the way to TWA 100 at least. You can ease Trav and Main in really big puffs to depower and luff. It looked to me like neither was eased and the helmsman went the wrong way.

The helm will tell the crew where the escape is, up and main is eased, down and main is held, just Trav eased. If main is eased and boat pulled down, it opens the head of the main and can cause a tripping. In fact in some conditions you depower by holding main central on both and get the boat down to TWA 140+


#25 EarthBM

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 08:36 PM

Could be. I was just speaking from personal experience, mostly single handing -- if you can only use one - steering or sheets, steering seems easier and has that centrifugal factor going for it in emergency. It also gives you a sense of control in big seas. The downside is that the rudder becoming less effective in said emergency. That's why it was disconcerting to see steering being not very effective here.

Racing these boats with crew is obviously very very different.

#26 PAllen

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 07:44 AM

The zone on the MODs is not black and white like on a skiff. Between 80 and 130 TWA, in those conditions, it is very difficult to judge escaping high or low. The traveler will absolutely bind if the main sheet is not eased. Anticipating the next gust and early headsail ease are key. It could have happened to any of those boats that day, and that's why we love it.




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