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Reading resumes and I want to slit my wrists...


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#1 bowman81

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 12:49 PM

So I received 6 resumes to review before interviews this week, short listed by the HR department.  I've been reading them to prepare for the first interview at 8 am tomorrow morning.

 

So, maybe I'm being a little harsh, what say the GA brethren?  

 

What format would you send your resume in?  I'd suggest a PDF, If you send me a docx file and tell me you have "an excellent handle of the use of the MS suite of software" yet have all of your paragraphs and headings spaced out with the space key I'm not going to be convinced.  Also is it common place to write a cover letter in an email and direct the company to your linkedin account as a resume?  That screams complete fucking laziness and lack of professionalism in my mind, am I out of touch? 

 

Spelling, now if you're an American, I may let you get away with it but as an Australian, educated at an Australian university, maybe you shouldn't use "z" in words such as organisation or characterisation.  It also might be considered smart to spell fibre correctly.

 

If you're going to drop my name in the email you send to the HR department you would want to ensure at least two things, 1) you've given me a heads up that you're going to do it and 2) make sure I have the first damn clue who the fuck you are.



#2 hard aground

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 12:57 PM

What really sucks is that it's only getting worse.



#3 bowman81

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:00 PM

I'd hate to see the ones that weren't short listed...



#4 mad

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:02 PM

Good luck with the interviews :wacko: you're gonna need it

 

Linkedin link as resume :lol: that is a new one!



#5 bowman81

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:05 PM

Good luck with the interviews :wacko: you're gonna need it

 

Linkedin link as resume :lol: that is a new one!

 

Ok, So it's not just me, that isn't normal in the modern job market?  

 

Any engineers need a job?  I think we'll be re-advertising in a week...



#6 mad

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:11 PM

Good luck with the interviews :wacko: you're gonna need it

 

Linkedin link as resume :lol: that is a new one!

 

Ok, So it's not just me, that isn't normal in the modern job market?  

 

Any engineers need a job?  I think we'll be re-advertising in a week...

Even if it is the 'new way', it's not the right way (In my opinion)

 

Some of the best application and resumes I get are from Europe, the standard of english puts most of the english speaking world to shame.

 

Edit:

Do any of them include 'txt speak'??



#7 bowman81

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:19 PM

 

Good luck with the interviews :wacko: you're gonna need it

 

Linkedin link as resume :lol: that is a new one!

 

Ok, So it's not just me, that isn't normal in the modern job market?  

 

Any engineers need a job?  I think we'll be re-advertising in a week...

Even if it is the 'new way', it's not the right way (In my opinion)

 

Some of the best application and resumes I get are from Europe, the standard of english puts most of the english speaking world to shame.

 

Edit:

Do any of them include 'txt speak'??

 

 

None of them that I got did, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.  I know damn well if that got to me I'd spit the shit at the HR lady.  I'm getting a little more tolerant of txt speak, it can have it's place, but a resume or cover letter is not it. 

 

I'm always impressed by the Europeans understanding of the English language, as you said it is far superior to that of most of the Australians I know.



#8 GHarbor2

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:27 PM

 
I'm always impressed by the Europeans understanding of the English language....


Didn't they invent the English language?

#9 Throatwarbler-Mangrove

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:33 PM

Good luck with the interviews :wacko: you're gonna need it

 

Linkedin link as resume :lol: that is a new one!

 

Ok, So it's not just me, that isn't normal in the modern job market?  

 

Any engineers need a job?  I think we'll be re-advertising in a week...

Yes, but I do spell "organization" with a "z" and "fiber" without the extraneous "e".   Is telecommuting from North America an option? 



#10 mad

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:39 PM

 

 

Good luck with the interviews :wacko: you're gonna need it

 

Linkedin link as resume :lol: that is a new one!

 

Ok, So it's not just me, that isn't normal in the modern job market?  

 

Any engineers need a job?  I think we'll be re-advertising in a week...

Even if it is the 'new way', it's not the right way (In my opinion)

 

Some of the best application and resumes I get are from Europe, the standard of english puts most of the english speaking world to shame.

 

Edit:

Do any of them include 'txt speak'??

 

 

None of them that I got did, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.  I know damn well if that got to me I'd spit the shit at the HR lady.  I'm getting a little more tolerant of txt speak, it can have it's place, but a resume or cover letter is not it. 

 

I'm always impressed by the Europeans understanding of the English language, as you said it is far superior to that of most of the Australians I know.

Or as the bloody South Africans like to tell you;

 

Invented by the English

Bastardised (with an 'S') ;)  by the Americans

and perfected by the South Africans



#11 bowman81

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:40 PM

 
I'm always impressed by the Europeans understanding of the English language....


Didn't they invent the English language?

 

From what I understand English is the left over bastardised remnants of every other language in Europe...

 

 

Good luck with the interviews :wacko: you're gonna need it

 

Linkedin link as resume :lol: that is a new one!

 

Ok, So it's not just me, that isn't normal in the modern job market?  

 

Any engineers need a job?  I think we'll be re-advertising in a week...

Yes, but I do spell "organization" with a "z" and "fiber" without the extraneous "e".   Is telecommuting from North America an option? 

 

As I said, if you're American I'd consider excusing it, but giving Yanks a hard time about spelling and being one of 3 nations worldwide still stuck using imperial units is one of my favorite past times...

 

Considering 50% of our communication is Skype based I'd say maybe, but unfortunately this one requires a physical presence, Geelong is a nice part of the world, sailing year round.



#12 dde

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:48 PM

From someone who just finished job searching, I would usually send my resume (if the posting requested something like "send resume and salary requirements to xxx@xxx.com") in PDF, since the format is universal and fairly small. A lot of people, especially young people, send their resumes in .docx format, which cannot be opened on older Office suites - usually found in offices that still rely on Win XP. 

 

What kind of position are you reviewing these for? 



#13 Nacradriver

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:51 PM

From someone who just finished job searching, I would usually send my resume (if the posting requested something like "send resume and salary requirements to xxx@xxx.com") in PDF, since the format is universal and fairly small. A lot of people, especially young people, send their resumes in .docx format, which cannot be opened on older Office suites - usually found in offices that still rely on Win XP. 

 

What kind of position are you reviewing these for? 

 

I beleive you can conver it to the older formate with a "minor loss of fidelity"..

 

I am sure glad I am not in management anymore.....



#14 bowman81

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:52 PM

There are 2 positions for Grad engineer and 1 for a production engineer with 5-10 yrs experience.  I felt like altering their resumes and putting them up on the big screen during the interview.  Then asking why they felt it necessary to tell me they like wearing high heels and bras on the weekends as an example of why not to send documents like this in a format that is easily edited.



#15 mad

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:55 PM

From someone who just finished job searching, I would usually send my resume (if the posting requested something like "send resume and salary requirements to xxx@xxx.com") in PDF, since the format is universal and fairly small. A lot of people, especially young people, send their resumes in .docx format, which cannot be opened on older Office suites - usually found in offices that still rely on Win XP. 

 

What kind of position are you reviewing these for? 

 

I beleive you can conver it to the older formate with a "minor loss of fidelity"..

 

I am sure glad I am not in management anymore.....

Guess you gave up proof reading at the same time :P



#16 grabbler

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:56 PM


 


 


Good luck with the interviews :wacko: you're gonna need it
 
Linkedin link as resume :lol: that is a new one!

 
Ok, So it's not just me, that isn't normal in the modern job market?  
 
Any engineers need a job?  I think we'll be re-advertising in a week...
Even if it is the 'new way', it's not the right way (In my opinion)
 
Some of the best application and resumes I get are from Europe, the standard of english puts most of the english speaking world to shame.
 
Edit:
Do any of them include 'txt speak'??
 
 
None of them that I got did, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.  I know damn well if that got to me I'd spit the shit at the HR lady.  I'm getting a little more tolerant of txt speak, it can have it's place, but a resume or cover letter is not it. 
 
I'm always impressed by the Europeans understanding of the English language, as you said it is far superior to that of most of the Australians I know.
Or as the bloody South Africans like to tell you;
 
Invented by the English
Bastardised (with an 'S') ;)  by the Americans
and perfected by the South Africans

I believe you mean Seth Efricans.

#17 dde

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:04 PM

There are 2 positions for Grad engineer and 1 for a production engineer with 5-10 yrs experience.  I felt like altering their resumes and putting them up on the big screen during the interview.  Then asking why they felt it necessary to tell me they like wearing high heels and bras on the weekends as an example of why not to send documents like this in a format that is easily edited.

 

If you need an easy way to weed out the younger guys, pull up their social media on the projector and see what their reaction is. 



#18 bowman81

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:13 PM

There are 2 positions for Grad engineer and 1 for a production engineer with 5-10 yrs experience.  I felt like altering their resumes and putting them up on the big screen during the interview.  Then asking why they felt it necessary to tell me they like wearing high heels and bras on the weekends as an example of why not to send documents like this in a format that is easily edited.

 

If you need an easy way to weed out the younger guys, pull up their social media on the projector and see what their reaction is. 

They're actually pretty clean, well from what I can see, maybe they've all locked their profiles up while looking for work.



#19 mikewof

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:15 PM

 
As I said, if you're American I'd consider excusing it, but giving Yanks a hard time about spelling and being one of 3 nations worldwide still stuck using imperial units is one of my favorite past times...
 
Considering 50% of our communication is Skype based I'd say maybe, but unfortunately this one requires a physical presence, Geelong is a nice part of the world, sailing year round.


There is nothing inherently correct or incorrect with defence, defense, organization, organisation, labor, labour, aluminum, aluminium, anana or pineapple, etc..

Spelling was still in the process of standardization and standardisation when the colonies were setting up the printing presses, and our American English is as evolved and correct as British and Australian English. They are similar languages, but they are different languages, and assuming one spelling is more correct is like suggesting Italian is more correct than French.

But you're right, Australians and Englishmen need to use British and Australian English, because that's their Lingua Franca.

As for Imperial versus Metric (or Systeme Internationale as the scientists call it), Imperial is no less scientific or more accurate than Metric. Many, many Americans are bilingual in their measurements, we use metric for science and engineering, Imperial for working around our house, look at the temperature in Fahrenheit while ordering a pint of rotgut.

Yes, Metric is a shitton easier to use, just move over the decimal, but Imperial is the Van Gogh of measurement systems, to use it well means thinking in factions, converting base ten to base twelve, undertaking history with measurements. Imperial forces the user to think and do math and understand nature as nature naturally is, fractionally, rather than approximative, since metric is too often approximate, it's 0.33333333333333 to our 1/3.

And of course, the reality of the metric world is that you've all failed to completely convert and still use our hokey, backwoods, base-twelve version of time, with degree inches for hours and circles divided in fractions for minutes and seconds. All attempts to metricize time into base-ten have so far failed.

So we may be the global goobers for sticking with Imperial, but at least we embrace the complexity in a world jammed with measuring monolinguists.

#20 dde

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:18 PM

 

There are 2 positions for Grad engineer and 1 for a production engineer with 5-10 yrs experience.  I felt like altering their resumes and putting them up on the big screen during the interview.  Then asking why they felt it necessary to tell me they like wearing high heels and bras on the weekends as an example of why not to send documents like this in a format that is easily edited.

 

If you need an easy way to weed out the younger guys, pull up their social media on the projector and see what their reaction is. 

They're actually pretty clean, well from what I can see, maybe they've all locked their profiles up while looking for work.

 

I've always wondered how thorough hiring managers were with that kind of research. As cautious as I am, some of my twitter stuff can still be pulled up on archive sites. 



#21 mikewof

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:21 PM

They're actually pretty clean, well from what I can see, maybe they've all locked their profiles up while looking for work.


From what I can tell so far, many, many of them really are clean. Lots of kids today live their lives not ever knowing a time before real privacy. Many of them really do live their lives as if under constant observation, Wesley McCormick calls them "The New Puritans."

#22 Touch of Gray

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:17 PM

 
As I said, if you're American I'd consider excusing it, but giving Yanks a hard time about spelling and being one of 3 nations worldwide still stuck using imperial units is one of my favorite past times...
 
Considering 50% of our communication is Skype based I'd say maybe, but unfortunately this one requires a physical presence, Geelong is a nice part of the world, sailing year round.


There is nothing inherently correct or incorrect with defence, defense, organization, organisation, labor, labour, aluminum, aluminium, anana or pineapple, etc..

Spelling was still in the process of standardization and standardisation when the colonies were setting up the printing presses, and our American English is as evolved and correct as British and Australian English. They are similar languages, but they are different languages, and assuming one spelling is more correct is like suggesting Italian is more correct than French.

But you're right, Australians and Englishmen need to use British and Australian English, because that's their Lingua Franca.

As for Imperial versus Metric (or Systeme Internationale as the scientists call it), Imperial is no less scientific or more accurate than Metric. Many, many Americans are bilingual in their measurements, we use metric for science and engineering, Imperial for working around our house, look at the temperature in Fahrenheit while ordering a pint of rotgut.

Yes, Metric is a shitton easier to use, just move over the decimal, but Imperial is the Van Gogh of measurement systems, to use it well means thinking in factions, converting base ten to base twelve, undertaking history with measurements. Imperial forces the user to think and do math and understand nature as nature naturally is, fractionally, rather than approximative, since metric is too often approximate, it's 0.33333333333333 to our 1/3.

And of course, the reality of the metric world is that you've all failed to completely convert and still use our hokey, backwoods, base-twelve version of time, with degree inches for hours and circles divided in fractions for minutes and seconds. All attempts to metricize time into base-ten have so far failed.

So we may be the global goobers for sticking with Imperial, but at least we embrace the complexity in a world jammed with measuring monolinguists.

Ah yes.  The Compass (not the one with the two points) converted to a base 10 system.  Can't wait! 



#23 Nacradriver

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:18 PM

 

 

There are 2 positions for Grad engineer and 1 for a production engineer with 5-10 yrs experience.  I felt like altering their resumes and putting them up on the big screen during the interview.  Then asking why they felt it necessary to tell me they like wearing high heels and bras on the weekends as an example of why not to send documents like this in a format that is easily edited.

 

If you need an easy way to weed out the younger guys, pull up their social media on the projector and see what their reaction is. 

They're actually pretty clean, well from what I can see, maybe they've all locked their profiles up while looking for work.

 

I've always wondered how thorough hiring managers were with that kind of research. As cautious as I am, some of my twitter stuff can still be pulled up on archive sites. 

 

Very through nowadays with almost all the information available on-line...  there are some companies that specialize in this stuff and I have seen some of the reports... extremely detailed!  With the cost of hiring and training these days I found it is worth the investment.

 

Oh!  Don't even think about lying about your education.  National Student Clearinghouse has records going back to the late 70's.  Did a check on myself and glad I did, they had my degree as a BA not a BS... fixed that real quick..  WTF I worked my ass of for it, I want it right..



#24 SemiSalt

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:41 PM

I was reading resumes 10 months ago. I got a few email replies with a link to video. There was a link to a resume AFTER the video ended. 

 

So, advice to job hunters: I don't want to watch your video. Just sent a resume.



#25 tommays

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:46 PM

While I am 57 and a pretty bad writer ,I do have two pretty smart children employed in the modern world in good positions and have them put tune-up anything I submit and also have had a very good job placement person I sail with give the resume good grades

It is good to look around and I have found that in the modern world employers manners are abysmal at best and age discrimination is rampant

#26 mikewof

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:48 PM

Ah yes.  The Compass (not the one with the two points) converted to a base 10 system.  Can't wait! 


Sure, once the metric folks get their mitts on the compass and the clock we'll finally be rid of those dreaded Base-twelve degrees, minutes, hours and seconds.

Bring a few litres of piss water down to the dock at 14.749 Megaseconds and you can eyeball a course to 93 clicks, 556 meters outside the mark.

What a terrific day for beer-cubic-liter-can racing!

#27 mad

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:48 PM

I was reading resumes 10 months ago. I got a few email replies with a link to video. There was a link to a resume AFTER the video ended. 
 
So, advice to job hunters: I don't want to watch your video. Just sent a resume.

A video?? Exactly what position were you interviewing for?

#28 TPG

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:56 PM

I'd like to know why so many people are so fucking terrible at behavioural interview questions?

Hell, they've mentioned them a million times in the job hunt discussions on the news/papers/websites/tv/etc.



#29 Point Break

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:05 PM

I love being retired........whats a resume?

#30 JBSF

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:11 PM

 

 

 

There are 2 positions for Grad engineer and 1 for a production engineer with 5-10 yrs experience.  I felt like altering their resumes and putting them up on the big screen during the interview.  Then asking why they felt it necessary to tell me they like wearing high heels and bras on the weekends as an example of why not to send documents like this in a format that is easily edited.

 

If you need an easy way to weed out the younger guys, pull up their social media on the projector and see what their reaction is. 

They're actually pretty clean, well from what I can see, maybe they've all locked their profiles up while looking for work.

 

I've always wondered how thorough hiring managers were with that kind of research. As cautious as I am, some of my twitter stuff can still be pulled up on archive sites. 

 

Very through nowadays with almost all the information available on-line...  there are some companies that specialize in this stuff and I have seen some of the reports... extremely detailed!  With the cost of hiring and training these days I found it is worth the investment.

 

Oh!  Don't even think about lying about your education.  National Student Clearinghouse has records going back to the late 70's.  Did a check on myself and glad I did, they had my degree as a BA not a BS... fixed that real quick..  WTF I worked my ass of for it, I want it right..

 

Is it a negative if you don't have FB, twatter, and all the other social media BS? 



#31 bmiller

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:40 PM

I love being retired........whats a resume?

 

Without the accent mark, it means carry on. Kind of what you're doing anyway being retired and all.......



#32 Pete M

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:11 PM

imperial, metric, and other -

when working aerospace in the middle east with French and American aircraft - aircraft speed was in knots, or mach, and aircraft altitude was in feet. weapon launch altitude was in feet, but weapon hold altitude was in meters, range was in meters, and weapon speed was in meters/sec.  compass was in degrees, but weapon angles was in radians, or mili-radians



#33 Capri25

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:30 PM

I spent 10yrs in the 90s as head hunter and providing IT subs.  You better believe I cleaned up resumes (with knowledge of submitter) before presenting. They were awful then.



#34 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:34 PM

 

 

There are 2 positions for Grad engineer and 1 for a production engineer with 5-10 yrs experience.  I felt like altering their resumes and putting them up on the big screen during the interview.  Then asking why they felt it necessary to tell me they like wearing high heels and bras on the weekends as an example of why not to send documents like this in a format that is easily edited.

 

If you need an easy way to weed out the younger guys, pull up their social media on the projector and see what their reaction is. 

They're actually pretty clean, well from what I can see, maybe they've all locked their profiles up while looking for work.

 

I've always wondered how thorough hiring managers were with that kind of research. As cautious as I am, some of my twitter stuff can still be pulled up on archive sites. 

 

 

I always Google job applicants.  For serious jobs, we'll pull a credit check if you pass a screening interview.  Most of our positions require security clearances and pretty much all but admin positions work with proprietary data from customers and often see data from more than one competitor in the industry.  If you can't pay your bills, I can't trust you to protect our customer's information.  

 

Not as bad as a few years ago but when you're sorting 100 resumes to 10 for phone screens and 3-4 in person interviews, it doesn't take much to get a red line through your cover letter.  At that initial screen, it's a single pass system.  If your resume goes into the discard file for any reason, it stays there.  



#35 SemiSalt

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:51 PM

I was reading resumes 10 months ago. I got a few email replies with a link to video. There was a link to a resume AFTER the video ended. 
 
So, advice to job hunters: I don't want to watch your video. Just sent a resume.

A video?? Exactly what position were you interviewing for?

 

Computer programming. 



#36 TPG

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:52 PM

I spent 10yrs in the 90s as head hunter and providing IT subs.  You better believe I cleaned up resumes (with knowledge of submitter) before presenting. They were awful then.

 

The ones with obviously scrubbed resumes still end up being awful.

 

You can't fix stupid.



#37 SemiSalt

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:57 PM

Yes, Metric is a shitton easier to use, just move over the decimal, but Imperial is the Van Gogh of measurement systems, to use it well means thinking in factions, converting base ten to base twelve, undertaking history with measurements. Imperial forces the user to think and do math and understand nature as nature naturally is, fractionally, rather than approximative, since metric is too often approximate, it's 0.33333333333333 to our 1/3.

 

The rigger Brion Toss has a nice essay on metric and imperial here: http://www.briontoss.../miscjuly00.htm

 

The genius of the Imperial system is that it arises out of the practical world. Why does beer come in 6-packs? Why are cases of just about anything 12 or 24 items?



#38 CyberBOB

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:33 PM

Yes, Metric is a shitton easier to use, just move over the decimal, but Imperial is the Van Gogh of measurement systems, to use it well means thinking in factions, converting base ten to base twelve, undertaking history with measurements. Imperial forces the user to think and do math and understand nature as nature naturally is, fractionally, rather than approximative, since metric is too often approximate, it's 0.33333333333333 to our 1/3.

 

The rigger Brion Toss has a nice essay on metric and imperial here: http://www.briontoss.../miscjuly00.htm

 

The genius of the Imperial system is that it arises out of the practical world. Why does beer come in 6-packs? Why are cases of just about anything 12 or 24 items?

Cause a 24 packs divides nicely by the number of hours in a day?

 

What did I win...



#39 bruno

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:49 PM

pdf requires adobe, i believe, non- standard pc package

#40 Throatwarbler-Mangrove

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:59 PM

pdf requires adobe, i believe, non- standard pc package

There is free, open source software called PDFCreator.  I also believe that MS Office 2010 allows files to be saved as PDF.



#41 Nacradriver

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 09:16 PM

Is it a negative if you don't have FB, twatter, and all the other social media BS? 

IMPO, the less of a social media footprint, the better..

 

This never concerned us as I think we did a pretty good job of screening applicants that this was even an issue, and we know you have a life outside work..  But, we did have a social media policy that detailed the vision of the company and asked that employees share that on these sites.. not the vision but the principles behind it.. 



#42 Kaptainkriz

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 09:27 PM

I find there are far too many high quality resumes out there to mess around with the poor ones. If you're only getting a handful of resumes for technical positions, something is very wrong.

#43 floating dutchman

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:19 PM

pdf requires adobe, i believe, non- standard pc package

There is free, open source software called PDFCreator.  I also believe that MS Office 2010 allows files to be saved as PDF.

 

I'm sure most word programs have an "export as pdf" function.



#44 chinabald

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:56 PM

There are 2 positions for Grad engineer and 1 for a production engineer with 5-10 yrs experience.  I felt like altering their resumes and putting them up on the big screen during the interview.  Then asking why they felt it necessary to tell me they like wearing high heels and bras on the weekends as an example of why not to send documents like this in a format that is easily edited.

 

If you need an easy way to weed out the younger guys, pull up their social media on the projector and see what their reaction is. 

The fact that people from my generation do this to people of your generation actually pisses me off. There isn't a guy I know from CEOs on down that isn't grateful that camera phones and the internet was not invented when we were in High School. But they want to hold recent college grads to a standard that they probably don't meet right now. Kids need to be kids and once they enter the working world its time for them to grow up. But to punish a guy because they find pictures on facebook where he is at a kegger, its crazy



#45 JMD

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 11:49 PM



There are 2 positions for Grad engineer and 1 for a production engineer with 5-10 yrs experience.  I felt like altering their resumes and putting them up on the big screen during the interview.  Then asking why they felt it necessary to tell me they like wearing high heels and bras on the weekends as an example of why not to send documents like this in a format that is easily edited.

 
If you need an easy way to weed out the younger guys, pull up their social media on the projector and see what their reaction is.


The fact that people from my generation do this to people of your generation actually pisses me off. There isn't a guy I know from CEOs on down that isn't grateful that camera phones and the internet was not invented when we were in High School. But they want to hold recent college grads to a standard that they probably don't meet right now. Kids need to be kids and once they enter the working world its time for them to grow up. But to punish a guy because they find pictures on facebook where he is at a kegger, its crazy


I think it's fair to do the facebook search.

If an individual is not smart enough to check the box that lets only people on their friends list see their facebook stuff they don't deserve the job.

#46 dde

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 12:01 AM

 always Google job applicants.  For serious jobs, we'll pull a credit check if you pass a screening interview.  Most of our positions require security clearances and pretty much all but admin positions work with proprietary data from customers and often see data from more than one competitor in the industry.  If you can't pay your bills, I can't trust you to protect our customer's information.  

 

Not as bad as a few years ago but when you're sorting 100 resumes to 10 for phone screens and 3-4 in person interviews, it doesn't take much to get a red line through your cover letter.  At that initial screen, it's a single pass system.  If your resume goes into the discard file for any reason, it stays there.  

 

That's pretty fair though, if anything, I would hope that was done as a standard.

 

 

 

 

The fact that people from my generation do this to people of your generation actually pisses me off. There isn't a guy I know from CEOs on down that isn't grateful that camera phones and the internet was not invented when we were in High School. But they want to hold recent college grads to a standard that they probably don't meet right now. Kids need to be kids and once they enter the working world its time for them to grow up. But to punish a guy because they find pictures on facebook where he is at a kegger, its crazyI think it's fair to do the facebook search.

If an individual is not smart enough to check the box that lets only people on their friends list see their facebook stuff they don't deserve the job.

 

I agree with both. There's definitely a fine line between what's acceptable and what's not. I use Facebook solely for communication in the chat, I rarely use the other features unless I need to untag photos, et cetera. But at the same time, if a photo of myself gets leaked where there's a few brews on the table in the background, that shouldn't be a reason for application termination. I was preached the "safeties" of social media all through college and while I have no doubts there are questionable photos in some archive somewhere, my background check will beg to differ with you. 

 

This is more focused on corporate work too. I had to submit to a Kroll background check before my offer was official - it's protocol and I have no qualms about it.



#47 mikewof

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 03:36 AM


Yes, Metric is a shitton easier to use, just move over the decimal, but Imperial is the Van Gogh of measurement systems, to use it well means thinking in factions, converting base ten to base twelve, undertaking history with measurements. Imperial forces the user to think and do math and understand nature as nature naturally is, fractionally, rather than approximative, since metric is too often approximate, it's 0.33333333333333 to our 1/3.

 
The rigger Brion Toss has a nice essay on metric and imperial here: http://www.briontoss.../miscjuly00.htm
 
The genius of the Imperial system is that it arises out of the practical world. Why does beer come in 6-packs? Why are cases of just about anything 12 or 24 items?

Also, counting by dozens is more natural, people have probably been doing it for ages before writing was common. By tens you can only get to 10 on two hands. By dozens you can get to 144 on two hands and a dozen on one hand.

If you look at your hand there are four fingers with three segments each, plus a thumb. If you use your thumb to point to the segments starting on the pinkie, that's four fingers times three segments each, equals twelve. Then use the other hand to keep track of the twelves to get twelve times twelve.

#48 Point Break

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:48 AM

I love being retired........whats a resume?

 
Without the accent mark, it means carry on. Kind of what you're doing anyway being retired and all.......
I like that thought.

#49 MidPack

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:53 PM

Ah, the generations having different standards & expectations, isn't that novel. If you're old school, you'll appeal to old school employers. If you're more current, you'll appeal to more cutting edge employers. Sounds like a good system...

 

At the other end of the spectrum are the really old school executives who can't compose a coherent email, can't understand the difference between reply & reply all, can't use a PC for anything other than email and forget logging in to social media. I've seen so many who always have the latest smartphone, tablet, laptop - with no clue how to tap into 98% of the capability they offer...



#50 Point Break

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 02:33 PM

I think it's reasonable to fact find any prospective employee including social media. Looking for a good organizational match isn't a bad idea. Each will strain the info gathered through any of a number of personal/organizational "filters". For instance, personally I could care less about beer parties or other social habits. If I found the prospective employee was a bigot or some other similar moral moment I found objectionable, I wouldn't hire them no matter what their talents might be.

#51 chinabald

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 04:28 PM






There are 2 positions for Grad engineer and 1 for a production engineer with 5-10 yrs experience.  I felt like altering their resumes and putting them up on the big screen during the interview.  Then asking why they felt it necessary to tell me they like wearing high heels and bras on the weekends as an example of why not to send documents like this in a format that is easily edited.

 
If you need an easy way to weed out the younger guys, pull up their social media on the projector and see what their reaction is.

The fact that people from my generation do this to people of your generation actually pisses me off. There isn't a guy I know from CEOs on down that isn't grateful that camera phones and the internet was not invented when we were in High School. But they want to hold recent college grads to a standard that they probably don't meet right now. Kids need to be kids and once they enter the working world its time for them to grow up. But to punish a guy because they find pictures on facebook where he is at a kegger, its crazy

I think it's fair to do the facebook search.

If an individual is not smart enough to check the box that lets only people on their friends list see their facebook stuff they don't deserve the job.
sure right up until Facebook changes its security system yet again and your pictures are available for your friends to tag with your info

#52 Gouvernail

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 04:33 PM

Why the fuck would anybody want a job??


Fuck that shit

#53 dde

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:07 PM

 I've seen so many who always have the latest smartphone, tablet, laptop - with no clue how to tap into 98% of the capability they offer...

 

This is my biggest qualm with technological advancement. As tablets and smartphones are capable of doing more, they're replacing laptops and desktops and while this is nothing to those who are more current, some of the most important people in a company are left in the dust. I've said it before and I'll stick to it - you cannot replace a laptop or desktop with an iPad. Win8 Surface and similar devices that run 8 RT are a different story - they're essentially laptops without an ethernet port (many support USB mice and do just about everything except high-demand applications). 

 

This problem, however, is good for tech support people like myself. Young guns who are very tech savvy get snatched up because the entry-level positions are the ones who get tossed to those who have constant questions and issues with their new hardware. I embrace that, but from my own standpoint, I hate change. If I was accustomed to something that worked for years, I wouldn't change it. Times are changing, I suppose.



#54 Gouvernail

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:12 PM

Really??

Doesn't the fact s person is job hunting so disgust you that the person is disqualified from working with you???

#55 chinabald

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:23 PM

Cover letter sentence

I pride myself on paying attention to detials

#56 The Big D

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:29 PM

Once interviewed a guy that was a perfect fit in every way. He had everything I needed and then some. Couldn't shake an odd feeling I had about him though. Got up in the middle of the night and did a search. He had disowned his 4 year old daughter in order to avoid child support payments. It was a tough decision but I knew I just could not look at this guy every day.

Do the background searches. Bad credit... pffffft. Can happen to the best. That is nothing compared to some of the character flaws you can discover.



#57 Gouvernail

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:34 PM

Zappa once said:

Be a jerk and go to work
Be a slob and get a job

#58 CyberBOB

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:37 PM

How about the idiot that brags on FB he's duped the company into believing he's sick, and posting pictures of himself drinking beer and quading.

 

There are too many good reasons to check FB.



#59 bowman81

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 12:31 AM

If i checked facebook and DIDN'T see pictures of them drinking beers and partying I would be more concerned, they're engineers after all and we're all known for our tendencies to have a quite few.  If I found nothing I'd be more worried about what else they're trying to hide.



#60 plchacker

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 12:40 AM

So I received 6 resumes to review before interviews this week, short listed by the HR department.  I've been reading them to prepare for the first interview at 8 am tomorrow morning.

 

So, maybe I'm being a little harsh, what say the GA brethren?  

 

What format would you send your resume in?  I'd suggest a PDF, If you send me a docx file and tell me you have "an excellent handle of the use of the MS suite of software" yet have all of your paragraphs and headings spaced out with the space key I'm not going to be convinced.  Also is it common place to write a cover letter in an email and direct the company to your linkedin account as a resume?  That screams complete fucking laziness and lack of professionalism in my mind, am I out of touch? 

 

Spelling, now if you're an American, I may let you get away with it but as an Australian, educated at an Australian university, maybe you shouldn't use "z" in words such as organisation or characterisation.  It also might be considered smart to spell fibre correctly.

 

If you're going to drop my name in the email you send to the HR department you would want to ensure at least two things, 1) you've given me a heads up that you're going to do it and 2) make sure I have the first damn clue who the fuck you are.

First mistake.  HR very seldom knows what is needed in any position beyond their own.  I found that they often overlooked the good candidates.  They are also taken in by BS.



#61 plchacker

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 12:57 AM

HR hired a tech instructor with zero industry experience.  He could not read a ruler much less explain how to troubleshoot hydraulic systems.

 

They did so without the department chair's knowledge.  Needless to say, they then had to replace him.  This time others were invited to play. 



#62 The Big D

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:03 AM

So I received 6 resumes to review before interviews this week, short listed by the HR department.  I've been reading them to prepare for the first interview at 8 am tomorrow morning.

 

So, maybe I'm being a little harsh, what say the GA brethren?  

 

What format would you send your resume in?  I'd suggest a PDF, If you send me a docx file and tell me you have "an excellent handle of the use of the MS suite of software" yet have all of your paragraphs and headings spaced out with the space key I'm not going to be convinced.  Also is it common place to write a cover letter in an email and direct the company to your linkedin account as a resume?  That screams complete fucking laziness and lack of professionalism in my mind, am I out of touch? 

 

Spelling, now if you're an American, I may let you get away with it but as an Australian, educated at an Australian university, maybe you shouldn't use "z" in words such as organisation or characterisation.  It also might be considered smart to spell fibre correctly.

 

If you're going to drop my name in the email you send to the HR department you would want to ensure at least two things, 1) you've given me a heads up that you're going to do it and 2) make sure I have the first damn clue who the fuck you are.

First mistake.  HR very seldom knows what is needed in any position beyond their own.  I found that they often overlooked the good candidates.  They are also taken in by BS.

Man do I agree with this. The shit hot ass kickers that I have found have come from my contact with the street and never would have made it through the HR dept sieve. Bragging my ass off here, but I have a record of recognizing and pulling in the real achievers. HR generally don't have a clue how to find the real players. You have to have street contact to build a crew.



#63 Gouvernail

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 06:56 AM

Be careful about hiring the street talent around here . The healthy good looking ones are usually police officers posing as street talent.

#64 TPG

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:47 AM

This problem, however, is good for tech support people like myself. Young guns who are very tech savvy get snatched up because the entry-level positions are the ones who get tossed to those who have constant questions and issues with their new hardware. I embrace that, but from my own standpoint, I hate change. If I was accustomed to something that worked for years, I wouldn't change it. Times are changing, I suppose.

 

 

Fact of the matter is most tech support people don't realize the computer is half the problem, you have to fix the customer also, and they'll love you more and stop coming back.

 

Tech support is more customer service than anything these days, and the best groups at this realize that.



#65 mikewof

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:56 PM

HR hired a tech instructor with zero industry experience.  He could not read a ruler much less explain how to troubleshoot hydraulic systems.
 
They did so without the department chair's knowledge.  Needless to say, they then had to replace him.  This time others were invited to play. 


This, and especially your other post are the secret shit-stains of industry in general.

These expensive HR departments are given the tasks of doing technical compliance on applicants and they often have next to no idea what the required position needs. They do the kind of things mentioned in this thread ... they google candidates, check their Facebook page, discard applicants with non-standard applications, make good an no-good piles based on incredibly ludicrous assessments, like if the applicant has a minimum number of publications (while often not having the ability to discern a quality paper from ten "beetle collecting" papers.)

Then they forward their stack of picks to the hirers who have to pick someone from that collection. The very best engineers and scientists are too often eliminated because their resume looks like it was designed by Jed Clampett, while their "go" stack is thick with often incredibly inexperienced goobers who have a knack for using the right buzzwords, have a terrific sales ability, are sharp as a tack, and too often can't do real engineering to save their souls. Within a few years, they're "promoted" to management and project organization because they're useless for actually doing the work of running equations, building prototypes and troubleshooting. Eventually the one proud company is top-heavy with chiefs and only a handful of Indians.

One of our key mistakes in industry is allowing the production of our products and our research to be taken over by a "sales first" mentality. Good products, innovation and quality still sell themselves. It's when one company offers only an incremental benefit over their competitors that this kind of nonsense becomes necessary.

#66 mikewof

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:59 PM


So I received 6 resumes to review before interviews this week, short listed by the HR department.  I've been reading them to prepare for the first interview at 8 am tomorrow morning.
 
So, maybe I'm being a little harsh, what say the GA brethren?  
 
What format would you send your resume in?  I'd suggest a PDF, If you send me a docx file and tell me you have "an excellent handle of the use of the MS suite of software" yet have all of your paragraphs and headings spaced out with the space key I'm not going to be convinced.  Also is it common place to write a cover letter in an email and direct the company to your linkedin account as a resume?  That screams complete fucking laziness and lack of professionalism in my mind, am I out of touch? 
 
Spelling, now if you're an American, I may let you get away with it but as an Australian, educated at an Australian university, maybe you shouldn't use "z" in words such as organisation or characterisation.  It also might be considered smart to spell fibre correctly.
 
If you're going to drop my name in the email you send to the HR department you would want to ensure at least two things, 1) you've given me a heads up that you're going to do it and 2) make sure I have the first damn clue who the fuck you are.

First mistake.  HR very seldom knows what is needed in any position beyond their own.  I found that they often overlooked the good candidates.  They are also taken in by BS.
Man do I agree with this. The shit hot ass kickers that I have found have come from my contact with the street and never would have made it through the HR dept sieve. Bragging my ass off here, but I have a record of recognizing and pulling in the real achievers. HR generally don't have a clue how to find the real players. You have to have street contact to build a crew.

FUCK YES.

Ten-to-one you don't give a crap about a clean internet signature either. Real talent is often dirty and nonconventional.

#67 plchacker

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:13 PM

Somehow HR has convinced the rest of industry that they are "it."  The slick add campaigns run by some HR organization (yes with a z) puzzled me at first.  A department that traditionally was primarily paper pushers has now become the cooperate FBI.  They have taken hiring and firing rights as exclusively theirs.  I work with HR executives on a regular basis.  If you are outside the company then they are easy going and generally decent people to be around.  If you fall under their domain, look out. 

 

Further Mike is right.  They do not understand real talent.  The do understand the clean over glossed PC image that idealizes the perfect office zombi.  Image is important in certain positions but the guys who can get it done are seldom concerned with image.  They are too busy solving problems at work, and playing without remorse when not at work.  This makes for a rough surface image.  Take a good look at the truly greats in history, Tesla, Einstein, even Bill Gates.  Very few super achievers would look perfect on paper.  



#68 One eye Jack

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:33 PM

And how many stretch their experience and education? California Air Resource Board hired this guy that said he had PHDs, and Masters degrees in all sorts of solutions to the bad air. Somebody one day started to check him out.. No degrees, they think no High school diploma, just a major agenda. This fool has made regulations that we are now stuck with.. Was he fired? hell no. If one is worth their salt... They can spot a bull shitter after about 3-4 days.

#69 TPG

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:39 PM

He obviously was sucking the right dick, thats how those folks get those jobs.



#70 B.J. Porter

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:05 PM

From what I understand English is the left over bastardised remnants of every other language in Europe...

 

 

 

Good luck with the interviews :wacko: you're gonna need it

 

Linkedin link as resume :lol: that is a new one!

 

Ok, So it's not just me, that isn't normal in the modern job market?  

 

Any engineers need a job?  I think we'll be re-advertising in a week...

Yes, but I do spell "organization" with a "z" and "fiber" without the extraneous "e".   Is telecommuting from North America an option? 

 

As I said, if you're American I'd consider excusing it, but giving Yanks a hard time about spelling and being one of 3 nations worldwide still stuck using imperial units is one of my favorite past times...

 

Considering 50% of our communication is Skype based I'd say maybe, but unfortunately this one requires a physical presence, Geelong is a nice part of the world, sailing year round.

 


More than three doing Imperials, I've had my first experiences with "Imperial" gallons in the ex-English places here in the Caribbean.  Bequia (St. Vincent & Grenadines), Anguilla, Antigua, St. Kitts, Grenada...some of the ones that use Imperial gallons.

 

Really screws with trying to figure out how much 2-stroke oil to put in my dinghy tank when the 1 Liter bottle they sell you has lines for Deciliters, and the gas pump is Imperial gallons.  One Imp Gallon ~ 4.5 Liters, BTW.  If you see the over-oiled dinghy with the two-stroke belching blue smoke, that's me.

 

Never mind trying to figure out what you are "actually" paying in $USD/US Gallon when you are paying $ECD/Imperial Gallon.  ($ECD = East Caribean Dollars, roughly 2.67/USD)



#71 B.J. Porter

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:21 PM

As for Imperial versus Metric (or Systeme Internationale as the scientists call it), Imperial is no less scientific or more accurate than Metric. Many, many Americans are bilingual in their measurements, we use metric for science and engineering, Imperial for working around our house, look at the temperature in Fahrenheit while ordering a pint of rotgut.

 

Don't make the mistake of confusing "Imperial" with the "English" system you are used to working with around the house.  They are two different systems.

 

They are both based on the "English" sort of system that deals around multiples and factors of 12 (mostly), however they are distinctly different.

 

And Imperial Gallon is bigger than a U.S. Standard (or "English" Gallon).  An Imperial Quart is about 40 Fluid Ounces (the U.S. Standard.).  And Imperial Gallon is about 1.2 U.S. Gallons.

 

Let's not even talk about Mass, OK?  How many Brits describe their 'weight' in Stone still?  WTF is a stone? 

 

 

609px-English_mass_units_graph.svg.png

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia....urement_systems



#72 B.J. Porter

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:53 PM

Somehow HR has convinced the rest of industry that they are "it."  The slick add campaigns run by some HR organization (yes with a z) puzzled me at first.  A department that traditionally was primarily paper pushers has now become the cooperate FBI.  They have taken hiring and firing rights as exclusively theirs.  I work with HR executives on a regular basis.  If you are outside the company then they are easy going and generally decent people to be around.  If you fall under their domain, look out. 

 

Further Mike is right.  They do not understand real talent.  The do understand the clean over glossed PC image that idealizes the perfect office zombi.  Image is important in certain positions but the guys who can get it done are seldom concerned with image.  They are too busy solving problems at work, and playing without remorse when not at work.  This makes for a rough surface image.  Take a good look at the truly greats in history, Tesla, Einstein, even Bill Gates.  Very few super achievers would look perfect on paper.  

 

We had a fellow that was hired at a bank where I used to work; I have an idea how it got in.  Let's call him "Bob", because that was actually his name.  This was for a position like mine was - direct report to the CIO with a staff of developers/techies below you.  In this guy's case he was hired and paid a base salary around 150% of mine.  (I'd been internally promoted rapidly from a Jr. Officer position and salary and titles were still catching up as per bank policy)

 

This was in the early days of Client/Server, and this guy was put in charge of the Database Administration Group.  I had started maintaining our own servers for our applications because the DBA group was so poorly managed and clueless they were getting in our way and they didn't report to me; easier to just do it ourselves.  So on his first couple of days there Bob realizes that I'm the only direct report with a clue about the new technology, so he invites me to lunch.  After we get past the pleasantries, he asks me, and this is a direct quote (I remember if because I was so floored), "So B.J., what is this Sybase thing anyway?"

 

Yes, the guy the bank hired as a full VP with a six figure salary to manage the database group didn't even know what relational database software was.  There were at the time only a few big players in the business - Oracle, Sybase, and everyone else.  That is like hiring someone to manage your sail production that says "So, what's this stuff in the Dimension Polyant box for anyway?"

 

When I politely pushed him on his background I found out that the sum total of his technical software development background was writing Excel macros.  Somehow this guy got through HR screening, AND an interview with someone in IT.  Presumably it was the CIO (who was a nice guy but you probably could have swapped his laptop for an etch-a-sketch) that interviewed him, because no one with any technical sense would have hired him.  Maybe they didn't ask me to (the guy that knew more about Sybase than the DB guys) because they knew I'd try and put the DBA group under me where it belonged?

 

I don't know how...but internal politics combined with HR inefficiency managed to get a guy hired at a management position that hadn't the first clue about any of the things he was supposed to be managing and setting policy for.  I've never seen such an incredibly bad hire.  I didn't feel at all guilty at my exit interview when the Deputy CEO asked me for my opinion about him...though I was tactful enough not to use the phrase "Empty Suit".



#73 dash34

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:01 PM

I like to stump my physics students with the question 'what is the Imperial unit for mass?'  Everyone says 'pound'.  But the answer is...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Slug.



#74 One eye Jack

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:55 PM

Somehow HR has convinced the rest of industry that they are "it."  The slick add campaigns run by some HR organization (yes with a z) puzzled me at first.  A department that traditionally was primarily paper pushers has now become the cooperate FBI.  They have taken hiring and firing rights as exclusively theirs.  I work with HR executives on a regular basis.  If you are outside the company then they are easy going and generally decent people to be around.  If you fall under their domain, look out. 
 
Further Mike is right.  They do not understand real talent.  The do understand the clean over glossed PC image that idealizes the perfect office zombi.  Image is important in certain positions but the guys who can get it done are seldom concerned with image.  They are too busy solving problems at work, and playing without remorse when not at work.  This makes for a rough surface image.  Take a good look at the truly greats in history, Tesla, Einstein, even Bill Gates.  Very few super achievers would look perfect on paper.  

 
We had a fellow that was hired at a bank where I used to work; I have an idea how it got in.  Let's call him "Bob", because that was actually his name.  This was for a position like mine was - direct report to the CIO with a staff of developers/techies below you.  In this guy's case he was hired and paid a base salary around 150% of mine.  (I'd been internally promoted rapidly from a Jr. Officer position and salary and titles were still catching up as per bank policy)
 
This was in the early days of Client/Server, and this guy was put in charge of the Database Administration Group.  I had started maintaining our own servers for our applications because the DBA group was so poorly managed and clueless they were getting in our way and they didn't report to me; easier to just do it ourselves.  So on his first couple of days there Bob realizes that I'm the only direct report with a clue about the new technology, so he invites me to lunch.  After we get past the pleasantries, he asks me, and this is a direct quote (I remember if because I was so floored), "So B.J., what is this Sybase thing anyway?"
 
Yes, the guy the bank hired as a full VP with a six figure salary to manage the database group didn't even know what relational database software was.  There were at the time only a few big players in the business - Oracle, Sybase, and everyone else.  That is like hiring someone to manage your sail production that says "So, what's this stuff in the Dimension Polyant box for anyway?"
 
When I politely pushed him on his background I found out that the sum total of his technical software development background was writing Excel macros.  Somehow this guy got through HR screening, AND an interview with someone in IT.  Presumably it was the CIO (who was a nice guy but you probably could have swapped his laptop for an etch-a-sketch) that interviewed him, because no one with any technical sense would have hired him.  Maybe they didn't ask me to (the guy that knew more about Sybase than the DB guys) because they knew I'd try and put the DBA group under me where it belonged?
 
I don't know how...but internal politics combined with HR inefficiency managed to get a guy hired at a management position that hadn't the first clue about any of the things he was supposed to be managing and setting policy for.  I've never seen such an incredibly bad hire.  I didn't feel at all guilty at my exit interview when the Deputy CEO asked me for my opinion about him...though I was tactful enough not to use the phrase "Empty Suit".
once you figure that the guy is a PHONEY or a bull shitter, it's fun to play with there little minds and set them up . But one will notice that a lot of these guys have that little brown smuge on their nose

#75 B.J. Porter

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 05:25 PM


 
I don't know how...but internal politics combined with HR inefficiency managed to get a guy hired at a management position that hadn't the first clue about any of the things he was supposed to be managing and setting policy for.  I've never seen such an incredibly bad hire.  I didn't feel at all guilty at my exit interview when the Deputy CEO asked me for my opinion about him...though I was tactful enough not to use the phrase "Empty Suit".
once you figure that the guy is a PHONEY or a bull shitter, it's fun to play with there little minds and set them up . But one will notice that a lot of these guys have that little brown smuge on their nose

 

Yeah, I had a couple of "I can't believe you said that to Bob during a staff meeting" moments.  Never seemed to hurt me politically, but it became my mission not to let the guy fuck up anything that was relevant to my bailiwick.

 

Bob: "And my team is about to deploy the Bank's first Client/Server application in a few weeks"

B.J. The Killjoy: "Actually Bob, we brought the Credit Application Tracking System on line  more than six months ago, and there's that HR Photo App I wrote for the CEO last month too."

 

Bob: "We're about to <descend into long stream of buzzwod babble, used completely incorrectly>"

B.J. the Killjoy: "Bob, I'm not sure where you read about those buzzwords, but what you are describing is completely incorrect and not even technically relevant to your project"

 

And so on...I don't think Bob survived too many weeks after my exit interview.



#76 B.J. Porter

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 05:27 PM

I like to stump my physics students with the question 'what is the Imperial unit for mass?'  Everyone says 'pound'.  But the answer is...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Slug.

 

Is that a London, Troy, or Avoirdupois Slug?



#77 Nicolations

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 05:46 PM

Try this:

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary."
James Nicoll

E knows ow ta spell his last name all proper like.

#78 plchacker

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 06:41 PM

Somehow HR has convinced the rest of industry that they are "it."  The slick add campaigns run by some HR organization (yes with a z) puzzled me at first.  A department that traditionally was primarily paper pushers has now become the cooperate FBI.  They have taken hiring and firing rights as exclusively theirs.  I work with HR executives on a regular basis.  If you are outside the company then they are easy going and generally decent people to be around.  If you fall under their domain, look out. 

 

Further Mike is right.  They do not understand real talent.  The do understand the clean over glossed PC image that idealizes the perfect office zombi.  Image is important in certain positions but the guys who can get it done are seldom concerned with image.  They are too busy solving problems at work, and playing without remorse when not at work.  This makes for a rough surface image.  Take a good look at the truly greats in history, Tesla, Einstein, even Bill Gates.  Very few super achievers would look perfect on paper.  

 

We had a fellow that was hired at a bank where I used to work; I have an idea how it got in.  Let's call him "Bob", because that was actually his name.  This was for a position like mine was - direct report to the CIO with a staff of developers/techies below you.  In this guy's case he was hired and paid a base salary around 150% of mine.  (I'd been internally promoted rapidly from a Jr. Officer position and salary and titles were still catching up as per bank policy)

 

This was in the early days of Client/Server, and this guy was put in charge of the Database Administration Group.  I had started maintaining our own servers for our applications because the DBA group was so poorly managed and clueless they were getting in our way and they didn't report to me; easier to just do it ourselves.  So on his first couple of days there Bob realizes that I'm the only direct report with a clue about the new technology, so he invites me to lunch.  After we get past the pleasantries, he asks me, and this is a direct quote (I remember if because I was so floored), "So B.J., what is this Sybase thing anyway?"

 

Yes, the guy the bank hired as a full VP with a six figure salary to manage the database group didn't even know what relational database software was.  There were at the time only a few big players in the business - Oracle, Sybase, and everyone else.  That is like hiring someone to manage your sail production that says "So, what's this stuff in the Dimension Polyant box for anyway?"

 

When I politely pushed him on his background I found out that the sum total of his technical software development background was writing Excel macros.  Somehow this guy got through HR screening, AND an interview with someone in IT.  Presumably it was the CIO (who was a nice guy but you probably could have swapped his laptop for an etch-a-sketch) that interviewed him, because no one with any technical sense would have hired him.  Maybe they didn't ask me to (the guy that knew more about Sybase than the DB guys) because they knew I'd try and put the DBA group under me where it belonged?

 

I don't know how...but internal politics combined with HR inefficiency managed to get a guy hired at a management position that hadn't the first clue about any of the things he was supposed to be managing and setting policy for.  I've never seen such an incredibly bad hire.  I didn't feel at all guilty at my exit interview when the Deputy CEO asked me for my opinion about him...though I was tactful enough not to use the phrase "Empty Suit".

For a while I did hire electricians on a semi regular basis.  The company decided we had to work through a temp service for employment.  It took the ladies at the temp service about three years to figure out how to spell electrician.  Fun days, those. 

 

I would have loved to have been watching when he asked what Sybase was.  We had IBM System 400 based SQL.  I tinker with databases from time to time.  Usually when I am feeling a bit cocky and need to be put back in my place. :D  Today it was ATT who dropped a static IP that was used in four VPN tunnels.  errrrr.  "I'm so sorry Mr. Hacker, we can correct this problem for you."  I finished the sentence for the last three techs I spoke with. 



#79 B.J. Porter

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 02:04 AM

 

Somehow HR has convinced the rest of industry that they are "it."  The slick add campaigns run by some HR organization (yes with a z) puzzled me at first.  A department that traditionally was primarily paper pushers has now become the cooperate FBI.  They have taken hiring and firing rights as exclusively theirs.  I work with HR executives on a regular basis.  If you are outside the company then they are easy going and generally decent people to be around.  If you fall under their domain, look out. 

 

Further Mike is right.  They do not understand real talent.  The do understand the clean over glossed PC image that idealizes the perfect office zombi.  Image is important in certain positions but the guys who can get it done are seldom concerned with image.  They are too busy solving problems at work, and playing without remorse when not at work.  This makes for a rough surface image.  Take a good look at the truly greats in history, Tesla, Einstein, even Bill Gates.  Very few super achievers would look perfect on paper.  

 

We had a fellow that was hired at a bank where I used to work; I have an idea how it got in.  Let's call him "Bob", because that was actually his name.  This was for a position like mine was - direct report to the CIO with a staff of developers/techies below you.  In this guy's case he was hired and paid a base salary around 150% of mine.  (I'd been internally promoted rapidly from a Jr. Officer position and salary and titles were still catching up as per bank policy)

 

This was in the early days of Client/Server, and this guy was put in charge of the Database Administration Group.  I had started maintaining our own servers for our applications because the DBA group was so poorly managed and clueless they were getting in our way and they didn't report to me; easier to just do it ourselves.  So on his first couple of days there Bob realizes that I'm the only direct report with a clue about the new technology, so he invites me to lunch.  After we get past the pleasantries, he asks me, and this is a direct quote (I remember if because I was so floored), "So B.J., what is this Sybase thing anyway?"

 

Yes, the guy the bank hired as a full VP with a six figure salary to manage the database group didn't even know what relational database software was.  There were at the time only a few big players in the business - Oracle, Sybase, and everyone else.  That is like hiring someone to manage your sail production that says "So, what's this stuff in the Dimension Polyant box for anyway?"

 

When I politely pushed him on his background I found out that the sum total of his technical software development background was writing Excel macros.  Somehow this guy got through HR screening, AND an interview with someone in IT.  Presumably it was the CIO (who was a nice guy but you probably could have swapped his laptop for an etch-a-sketch) that interviewed him, because no one with any technical sense would have hired him.  Maybe they didn't ask me to (the guy that knew more about Sybase than the DB guys) because they knew I'd try and put the DBA group under me where it belonged?

 

I don't know how...but internal politics combined with HR inefficiency managed to get a guy hired at a management position that hadn't the first clue about any of the things he was supposed to be managing and setting policy for.  I've never seen such an incredibly bad hire.  I didn't feel at all guilty at my exit interview when the Deputy CEO asked me for my opinion about him...though I was tactful enough not to use the phrase "Empty Suit".

For a while I did hire electricians on a semi regular basis.  The company decided we had to work through a temp service for employment.  It took the ladies at the temp service about three years to figure out how to spell electrician.  Fun days, those. 

 

I would have loved to have been watching when he asked what Sybase was.  We had IBM System 400 based SQL.  I tinker with databases from time to time.  Usually when I am feeling a bit cocky and need to be put back in my place. :D  Today it was ATT who dropped a static IP that was used in four VPN tunnels.  errrrr.  "I'm so sorry Mr. Hacker, we can correct this problem for you."  I finished the sentence for the last three techs I spoke with. 

 

It was one of those moments when my flabber was so gasted I didn't quite know what to say.  Here's this New Guy that was hired because he supposed to be so brilliant, and it was clear he didn't have the barest freakin' clue about which end was up.  His tenure there Was Not Pretty.






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