Jump to content


New boat ideas


  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 buchhla

buchhla

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 243 posts
  • Location:Seattle, Wa

Posted 27 June 2013 - 05:02 AM

So me and the GF were talking the other night about where/what our cruising plans are for the next few years.  We currently live on a Pretorien 35, and have sailed from the states to NZ over the past few years and are in NZ working refilling the cruising kitty.  We LOVE out current boat, and don't really mind the size when cruising, but life at the dock is a little bit tight.

 

So the obvious answer is to stop working and go back out cruising, which we plan to do after the year, but it also got me thinking about other boats to consider that are reasonable in price that could possibly work for us.  We plan to continue cruising, and are debating about long term living on the boat.  I also come from a racing background, so I would want something similar in performance potential to what I have now if not faster (same speed for size ratio) but the GF still likes a more classical teak interior.

 

i am thinking we are looking for something under $125k for the boat, unless it is well speccd and ready to go where that may go up a bit.  The boat would still need to be managable offshore single handed as we cruise just the two of us.

 

The only thing I have seen from some casual yachtworld glances are a Jeanneau SO 45.1.  That is slightly bigger than ideal, but seems to have a decent layout, hull looks like it would work up and down wind (furling main withstanding) and I think the construction is good enough.  My GF loves the interior of the liberty 458, though I am not sure about the performance on that.

 

I am looking for something that optimizes cabin layout for 2 people.  On the Pretorien, the aft cabin is basically a garage for our toys, extra gear etc, so we can't really have anyone stay over without instantly converting to camping.  I see a lot of layouts that have a master cabin either forward or aft (don't really care) with  the second cabin int he alternate posisiton, but also has good sea births somewhere else, sometimes in a third cabin.  That would be great since I play the guitar and wouldn't mind locking myself in the third cabin to play while not annoying the partner too much!

 

Any other production boats to look at?  or maybe cool semi-production boats that can be found for a reasonable amount of money? 



#2 Ishmael

Ishmael

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,325 posts
  • Location:Fuctifino

Posted 27 June 2013 - 05:16 AM

If I couldn't afford a Nordic 44, I would be very tempted by a good specimen of this boat.

 

http://www.yachtworl...es#.UcvKgG3hf_A



#3 Scarecrow

Scarecrow

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,693 posts
  • Location:Melbourne, Aus

Posted 27 June 2013 - 05:18 AM

Since you're in NZ have a look for a Townson (known as God boats in NZ).  Just don't consider an Electron unless you're looking for somewhere for Barbie to sleep.



#4 buchhla

buchhla

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 243 posts
  • Location:Seattle, Wa

Posted 27 June 2013 - 06:58 AM

Thanks for both.  You are right, I have been on a KP44 that was quite nice, that could be an option.  I will also check out the Townsons, I have seen a few of his dingheys around down here, did he also draw larger boats?



#5 Scarecrow

Scarecrow

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,693 posts
  • Location:Melbourne, Aus

Posted 27 June 2013 - 07:04 AM

big beautiful boats that make mr Perry look like a trumped up hack.

 

Alt_Talent100_0300.JPG



#6 White Wing

White Wing

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 787 posts
  • Location:Seattle
  • Interests:Pretty much anything on the water, including skiing on the frozen stuff

Posted 27 June 2013 - 07:07 AM

big beautiful boats that make mr Perry look like a trumped up hack.

 

Alt_Talent100_0300.JPG

 

Seriously?  Too much sheer, cabin windows that are waaay oversized for aesthetics - and you think this designer trumps Bob Perry?  It's not a terrible looking boat, but so many are SO much better looking.

 

Sorry - but you're WRONGO!

 

WWing



#7 Scarecrow

Scarecrow

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,693 posts
  • Location:Melbourne, Aus

Posted 27 June 2013 - 07:10 AM

Ok might have been overly enthusiatic in the praise but then most of Des's work was done in the 70s



#8 Joli

Joli

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,747 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:42 PM

My in-laws cruised a Pretorian 35 for 11 years.  When they swallowed the anchor and sold the boat I asked my father in-law what he would have done differently, his response " fifty foot".  That said the really like the Pretorian and had a boat load of fun but he wished he'd had more gear storage.



#9 SloopJonB

SloopJonB

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,506 posts
  • Location:West Vancouver, B.C.
  • Interests:Daysailing, local cruising and working on them.

Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:34 PM

Ok might have been overly enthusiatic in the praise but then most of Des's work was done in the 70s

 

That thing looks like a British boat from the 50's (and that is NOT a ringing endorsement).

 

If you regard that as a good looking boat, might I suggest you check out a Pearson Countess or an Alden Lady Helene?



#10 Bob Perry

Bob Perry

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,243 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:42 PM

Scare:

That's kind of a funny looking boat but I like it. I like the lines of the house and the big windows. The sheer is a bit exagerated but that might be the camera angle or the lens.

As to the "trumped up hack" comment I suggest you take that turd out of your pocket. Your day will go better then.

 

Here's one of my "hacks" for comparison. Waterline length is a good thing.

Attached Files



#11 kimbottles

kimbottles

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,719 posts
  • Location:PNW
  • Interests:SWMBO

Posted 27 June 2013 - 06:35 PM

Scare:

That's kind of a funny looking boat but I like it. I like the lines of the house and the big windows. The sheer is a bit exagerated but that might be the camera angle or the lens.

As to the "trumped up hack" comment I suggest you take that turd out of your pocket. Your day will go better then.

 

Here's one of my "hacks" for comparison. Waterline length is a good thing.

Loon is such a cool boat, her original owner Sandy Bill gave me a complete tour shortly after she was built. We anchored off his Lopez property and I rowed in to visit. I see her every so often and am reminded of that tour. Very cool vessel!

 

That Perry guy really has a diverse collection of very nice designs to his credit. His work speaks for itself.



#12 Scarecrow

Scarecrow

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,693 posts
  • Location:Melbourne, Aus

Posted 27 June 2013 - 08:12 PM

Wasn't actually meaning to knock you Bob (more a sarcastic compliment), your body of work is well known and respected (particularly on CA). The point was that in this forum the only way to get people to consider an alternative is by over enthusiastic comparison and praise of others. It is approx 20 years since Des drew his last boat and 95% of his work was for NZ based clients so there aren't a lot of photos on line to give examples of his beautiful boats and the photo above is the first one I found. Probably better praise which would mean less to the majority of posters here is that Roger Hill who worked for Farr in both NZ and the States, Humphries in the 80 and also drafted for Young and Townson before setting up his own very well respected design firm, chooses to own and loves his Townson.

#13 buchhla

buchhla

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 243 posts
  • Location:Seattle, Wa

Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:03 PM

Yea, a little more storage, a little more speed etc...  A larger Wauquiez from the same time period would definitly be an option for us.  Ironically there is a sistership of the boat scarecrow mentions litereally across the dock from us in Auckland called Helix.  I agree, it is a little retro looking, but looks like a nice boat.  Will have to get a look down below the next time the owner is on board.

 

In general though, I am looking for something a little more modern.  Not hugely cavernous modern beneteu,but something that actually does maximize waterline and carries a little more beam aft than our current boat.  From my limited design experiance, it seems like you can make a good tradeoff for interior space without massivly upping the wetted surface area of the boat.

 

Since we are off the milk run now, having a boat that both goes to weather and is reasonbly comfortable doing it is important as it seems like going and coming to NZ is almost always on the wind, or just slightly cracked off unless you are really lucky with weather!  I also wouldn't ming a slightly higher SA/D ratio than what I currently have.  I would much rather just keep two reefs in and a 100% headsail but be able to move in light air better.  We have WAY more light air than heavy!



#14 Schnick

Schnick

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,101 posts
  • Location:Vancouver, BC

Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:08 PM

I would think in Kiwiland you are in the mecca of high performance + functional interior boat building.  Davidson, Spencer, Farr, and a few others pumped out a lot of boats around 40' that would seem to me to meet your brief.  Many of them are sort of one-offs though.

 

This Lidgard 41 looks pretty nice:

 

http://www.yachtworl...awa/New-Zealand

 

 

The other option if you want something very similar to the Centurion would be a mid 80s Beneteau First series like the Frers designed 42 or the 435 or something.  Comfy and well mannered boats with pretty much the exact same performance envelope as your current boat, just scaled up.



#15 Schnick

Schnick

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,101 posts
  • Location:Vancouver, BC

Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:28 PM

These are pretty great boats too and have the wider aft hullform that you are after.  The rig is surprisingly small for such a quick boat which I think is a good thing cruising.

 

http://www.trademe.c...n-577858789.htm



#16 Bob Perry

Bob Perry

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,243 posts

Posted 28 June 2013 - 02:22 PM

Scare:

I don't know Roger Hill's work at all. That's a new name for me. What does he do?



#17 Speng

Speng

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,183 posts
  • Location:Cincinnati, OH
  • Interests:stuff with sails

Posted 02 July 2013 - 05:39 PM

On a different note why not consider a 35ft-ish cat? NZ/Aus are cool multi central and you can set it up with as much space as a 45ft mono.



#18 buchhla

buchhla

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 243 posts
  • Location:Seattle, Wa

Posted 02 July 2013 - 11:44 PM

multi's vs mono's get into religion, but I am definitly on the mono side as far as cruising goes.  I think light, fast multi's are great for racing, but as soon as you put the same weight of cruising gear on cat, you have pretty poor performance.  And there are VERY few cruising cats that can point at all.  None of those are trade-offs I am willing to make. 

 

Albeit I think I push my boat a little harder than an average cruising while underway, we usually have similar NM/day ratios as 40ish mono's and cats while passage making, even against performance cats.  Sure they CAN go a lot faster, but either for safety reasons or shear comfort, they almost always seem to rachet down the boat and go the same 6-7 kts that we do.  And long term, this is a boat I would want to live on at a marina instead of having a house, 2x the berthage doesn't make sense.



#19 Zonker

Zonker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,155 posts
  • Location:Canada

Posted 03 July 2013 - 10:47 AM

Or we're just lazy and loaf along and don't have to try very hard . When we want to make tracks to oh I don't know arrive at an atoll before sunset or win a race we can speed it up..so we don't have to spend another night at sea. With daggerboards we point pretty good.

Back to performance monos. Consider the older Beneteau First 38 (really 40' long). Our friends Liza and Andy Copeland sailed around he world on one. They are ex racers and always said it sailed pretty fast. Cheap now.

Reviews. http://books.google.... review&f=false

http://www.nealalexa...files/ben38.pdf

#20 jacrider

jacrider

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 150 posts
  • Location:Toronto and Great Lakes

Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:09 AM

With the decline in used boat prices, look at the Farr designed Bene First 40.7. Fast, clean interiors, logical and well designed deck layouts.

#21 buchhla

buchhla

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 243 posts
  • Location:Seattle, Wa

Posted 03 July 2013 - 09:05 PM

Zonker, I don't think your boat is the typical cat either, and you are quite conscious of weight (which I guess I would be as well) and I think you are right, I would want something with Dagger boards, but deep down I think I am just a little more of a mono person.  Anyway, I will check out the 38.

 

As to the first 40.7, I havn't crawled around one of those, but I have spent some time on a 36.7 which I believe is quite similar in construction and they just don't look all that well built to me.  It seems like they really sacrifice some build quality to keep the price competitive and the weight down.

 

Related to the whole price downturn, it looks like there are TONS of newer euro boats for sail in turkey/greece/spain where their economy has tanked.  Seems like you can buy a boat over there sometimes 25-40% less than what you would find in the states.  Anyone have experiane with doing a transaction like that?



#22 Zonker

Zonker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,155 posts
  • Location:Canada

Posted 04 July 2013 - 01:43 AM

I was involved with the design of the 36.7. NOT what I would call robust structure at all. The 40.7 was better (I think) but the 36 had a lot of cost pressure from B to keep it light and cheap.

The 40.7 was a sort of racing hull wrapped around an interior. So bit too beamy aft to accommodate big aft cabins for my taste.

The early Firsts were much better built I think. Maybe also see if a 44.7 or 42s5 is in your price range.

If you're willing to look at alum keep your eyes open for Ovnis and Garcias. Probably out of your budget but I haven't looked at Euro prices.

And yes we have a skinny hulled cat but the efforts to keep it light are folly. Scuba compressor, 3 sets of dive gear, 2 inflatable kayaks, 15 Hp + RIB, 350 lbs of tools.

Ok we bought some Corelle dishes in Oz and replaced the heavier stone wear. saved about 2 lbs.

#23 buchhla

buchhla

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 243 posts
  • Location:Seattle, Wa

Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:19 AM

Cool, I had no idea you were involved with that boat.  Nice boat for club racing etc, but it almost seemed like a dispoable boat.  Race hard for 2 seaons, sell off, have someone rum race for 8 and then there may not be much left.

 

I like the Ovni's but that would require way to much time working rather than cruising to afford.  This is all still threoretical at this point.  I think we will continue to cruise on the boat until either parents health or children come into play, then a new boat will probably happen so we can head back out again.  At least that is my plan, have to see if the other half is on the same page!  :)

 

Oh, and we only have melamine plates on our boat, corelle is too heavy!  :)  I do you a toothbrush with a full handle though...



#24 Diarmuid

Diarmuid

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 883 posts
  • Location:Laramie, WY, USA

Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:52 PM

What about a Canadian Sailcraft 40, by Tony Castro? Hardly voluminous by Bavaria standards, but pleasing lines & plenty of wood below.  Asking prices in US or Canada under $90k.

 

Or a Frers 41? SA/D around 20. Walk-out stern, while keeping that sweet IOR look of the Pretorian.

 

Even tho Aus/NZ is the end of the line for many sailboats, asking prices seem very high there. 



#25 buchhla

buchhla

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 243 posts
  • Location:Seattle, Wa

Posted 04 July 2013 - 08:55 PM

Thanks, those are both good options.  I should have thought of CS's as we have been cruising boat to boat with a CS36 for the last few years.  I prefer the layout of the Pretorien, but the CS36 is a nice boat, and slightly faster than us as well!

 

Yea, there are some nice boats in NZ, but espeically in the last year with the stronger NZ doller to the US, they are just significanty more expensive that what I can find in the states.  And boats don't seem to be selling like hotcakes down here to the locals either.  Then again, maybe the kiwi's don't like hotcakes  :)

 

I have a feeling that my perfect boat is going to be a weird ex-racer that has been converted to an interior or a one-off/custom boat that someone else had the cash to build and is now done with it.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users