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Friends don't let friends sail PHRF??


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#1 billy backstay

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 10:41 PM

One of my favorite sayings, but last night in light air on a mates new-old, Soverel 27 we were friggin' slaying much bigger boats, that owe us heaps of time.!!!  ..... 

 

 

 

Until 3 guns cancelled for lack of air....  (sigh)...  : - (



#2 Flashbrah

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:43 AM

Excellent story, would read again.

I am saving it to my hard drive, so I can print and then laminate it so that I can read it to my future grandchildren.

 

Thanks OP,



#3 By the lee

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 07:19 AM

I loved PHRF.

 

Horses for courses and mine ruled!

 

Usually.

 

Just sayin'................. :rolleyes:



#4 foredeckC22

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 07:23 AM

Like.

 

There were these races when we went upwind in 20+ and we rounded in front of boats that cost 4x what the owner had into the boat... it was pretty awesome.

 

And then we got to go downwind... and drink beer... and eat good food :D



#5 USA_73

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 10:59 AM

Glad you had fun Billy.

 

There's one design, and then there's sailing the boat that's perfect for you. I did Etchells because it fit both, and moved on when it didn't. After only 2 sails, I think we confirmed the latter with the Soverel.



#6 4deckgye

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 03:28 PM

Race a J/24 in PHRF on Wednesday nights, great fun and everyone has a beer in hand from start to finish.

 

thursdays One design and put our racing hats on.  Still good fun, but competitive fun. 



#7 billy backstay

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 07:01 PM

Race a J/24 in PHRF on Wednesday nights, great fun and everyone has a beer in hand from start to finish.

 

thursdays One design and put our racing hats on.  Still good fun, but competitive fun. 

 

 

Sorry, but I draw the llne at J-24's and 105's!  Guy has to have some self respect! LOL. 



#8 Mark K

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:40 PM

 It might more accurately be "Friends don't let friends take PHRF racing seriously", but some messages should not be stripped of their shock and awe...



#9 axolotl

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 06:31 PM

Unless PHRF is the only venue available for your boat.



#10 billy backstay

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 06:58 PM

 It might more accurately be "Friends don't let friends take PHRF racing seriously", but some messages should not be stripped of their shock and awe...

 

 


That does make more sense, but I bet you that most of the PERF fleet leaving Block Island today take it pretty seriously!! : - )



#11 cirrhosis of the river

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 01:01 AM

If PHRF is the law of the land and you suck at it then by all means bitch about how mutch you suck at it



#12 PHRF SUX

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 02:10 AM

This is my kind of thread.



#13 Hobie18Jax

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 11:39 AM

Yes PHRF sucks on the rating side but for most of us, it is the only game in town. Driving an Olson 30 in Florida I love it when we beat faster boats to the marks. It is the sailors, not the rating!



#14 Steam Flyer

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 12:33 PM

The good thing about PHRF is that you can bring the boat that

 

-is a good practical daysailer/weekender for your family

-is for sale cheap by your neighbor

-is the perfect drinking platform for you & your pals

-is the one you inherited

 

The bad thing about PHRF is that some people want it to be an Olympic event

 

Nobody is forcing anyone else to race PHRF. Wanna take the competition seriously? Go get a Laser, or a Lightning, and STFU

 

FB- Doug



#15 Beer Can

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 12:36 PM

One design is not available to all of us.  I'm actually amazed that PHRF is as close to fair as it is.  And if you may be doing some PHRF racing, do some research before you buy your boat so you won't have to bitch about your rating and how unfair it all is.



#16 billy backstay

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 01:01 PM

One design is not available to all of us.  I'm actually amazed that PHRF is as close to fair as it is.  And if you may be doing some PHRF racing, do some research before you buy your boat so you won't have to bitch about your rating and how unfair it all is.

 

 

Very well said!!  I'm not really bitching, and yes PHRF is a lot of fun, and maybe even better than one design, where there are often a few,  I call them, "factory teams' with newer sails, better boats, etc; versus the "privateers".  It's just sometimes a bit frustrating at times, like the Wednesday night a couple months back where the 35 footer I was trimming on got the gun and we were sure we saved our time on the Evelyn 32 that usually prevails, and is very well sailed.  On corected, we lost first place by one second.  It's all good, just sayin' a bit frustrating at times... 

 

Sail fast, live slow!!



#17 Steam Flyer

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 01:03 PM

One design is not available to all of us. ... ...

 

No, one design -IS- available for anybody who wants it.

 

You might have to drive further than you'd like, or you may have to sail a boat you wouldn't pick otherwise, but one-design racing is definitely on the list of options. The biggest problem with one-design racing is that the boats mostly suck and there's not as wide a margin for convincing yourself that you're really a brilliant sailor with magnificent skills, unfairly handicapped into oblivion by the Diana Moon Glampers of the PHRF Committee

 

 

... ...  I'm actually amazed that PHRF is as close to fair as it is.  And if you may be doing some PHRF racing, do some research before you buy your boat so you won't have to bitch about your rating and how unfair it all is.

 

Agreed. PHRF can be a lot of fun if you're not wallowing in sour grapes. Pick a boat you can afford, that's enjoyable, and bring it!

 

FB- Doug



#18 surf nazi

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 07:54 PM

One of my favorite sayings, but last night in light air on a mates new-old, Soverel 27 we were friggin' slaying much bigger boats, that owe us heaps of time.!!!  ..... 

 

 

 

Until 3 guns cancelled for lack of air....  (sigh)...  : - (

 

As the person who first coined that saying ( look it up if you want),  let me say that it was only intended to insult those phrfers who try to act like it's the highest level of sailing. For people that have a big boat and just want to go out and race and phrf is the only way to do it, good on you. Go out, have fun, sail with and against your buds. Try to sail as hard and as well as you can. That is a good thing.

 

What is not a good thing are the phrf people who want to complain about ratings ( theirs and everyone else's )  , complain about the race committee, their crew, sailmaker, etc, etc. If they win it's because they are such great sailors , if they lose it's because of the ratings ( or RC, or crew or whatever ). If you want to be serious about racing and seeing how good you are, you have to race in a good one design class. You can still have fun with phrf, don't make sure it's about the fun. If you start crowing about your phrf wins, or complaining about your ratings, then get a OD and come out and see how great you are.



#19 2high2tight

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 07:57 PM

I think we need a new rating rule to replace PHRF. something scientific with lots of equations and shit. I'm sure that would fix it.



#20 fidd

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:26 PM

One of my favorite sayings, but last night in light air on a mates new-old, Soverel 27 we were friggin' slaying much bigger boats, that owe us heaps of time.!!!  ..... 

 

 

 

Until 3 guns cancelled for lack of air....  (sigh)...  : - (

 

As the person who first coined that saying ( look it up if you want),  let me say that it was only intended to insult those phrfers who try to act like it's the highest level of sailing. For people that have a big boat and just want to go out and race and phrf is the only way to do it, good on you. Go out, have fun, sail with and against your buds. Try to sail as hard and as well as you can. That is a good thing.

 

What is not a good thing are the phrf people who want to complain about ratings ( theirs and everyone else's )  , complain about the race committee, their crew, sailmaker, etc, etc. If they win it's because they are such great sailors , if they lose it's because of the ratings ( or RC, or crew or whatever ). If you want to be serious about racing and seeing how good you are, you have to race in a good one design class. You can still have fun with phrf, don't make sure it's about the fun. If you start crowing about your phrf wins, or complaining about your ratings, then get a OD and come out and see how great you are.

+1 

 

Racing OD is also a great way to learn how to tune a boat properly. 



#21 Raked aft \\

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 10:37 PM

The good thing about PHRF is that you can bring the boat that

 

-is a good practical daysailer/weekender for your family  [check]

-is for sale cheap by your neighbor  [check]

-is the perfect drinking platform for you & your pals [double check]

-is the one you inherited [checkmate!]

 

The bad thing about PHRF is that some people want it to be an Olympic event

 

Nobody is forcing anyone else to race PHRF. Wanna take the competition seriously? Go get a Laser, or a Lightning, and STFU

 

FB- Doug

 

 

     Sailed my avitar, T10, in Cleve since the early 80's, was my dad's boat then, now mine...

  Awesome 1D fleet all around 20+ boats at the NA's religiously.. great raft ups when the wind dies too!  :rolleyes:

 

    On the occasional phrf outings, stupid drunk, we win races despite ourselves...

 

   We love phrf...  (ssshhh, don't say anything to phrf LE.)



#22 clamslapper

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:22 AM

One of my favorite sayings, but last night in light air on a mates new-old, Soverel 27 we were friggin' slaying much bigger boats, that owe us heaps of time.!!!  ..... 

 

 

 

Until 3 guns cancelled for lack of air....  (sigh)...  : - (

 

As the person who first coined that saying ( look it up if you want),  let me say that it was only intended to insult those phrfers who try to act like it's the highest level of sailing. For people that have a big boat and just want to go out and race and phrf is the only way to do it, good on you. Go out, have fun, sail with and against your buds. Try to sail as hard and as well as you can. That is a good thing.

 

What is not a good thing are the phrf people who want to complain about ratings ( theirs and everyone else's )  , complain about the race committee, their crew, sailmaker, etc, etc. If they win it's because they are such great sailors , if they lose it's because of the ratings ( or RC, or crew or whatever ). If you want to be serious about racing and seeing how good you are, you have to race in a good one design class. You can still have fun with phrf, don't make sure it's about the fun. If you start crowing about your phrf wins, or complaining about your ratings, then get a OD and come out and see how great you are.

 

 

It's a great post.  That sums it up exactly.  Exactly as you say, PHRF was designed for folks who have big boats and want to do a little fun racing.  Like, I don't know, Figawi or something.  Or, when you're done with your OD stuff, PHRF is something fun to take the wife or girlfriend out, bring lots of great snacks and cocktails and have a nice day of it and not get upset with anyone.

 

It's the macho nut jobs that take PHRF way too seriously who have killed it.  The blokes find an old one-off or few-off boat, gut it down to bare fiberglass, and have no sense of humor at all going out there kicking much ass and taking down names, then walking around the clubhouse like they're Dennis Connor.

 

It's bad up here, but I used to race some years back in the WLIS/NYC/NJ area, and I have never seen it treated as hardcore as that.  The J29 guys were the worst in terms of excessive machismo despite good but often not great racing skills.  There used to be -- probably still is -- a yellow redneck-ish boat, not a J29 but something a little smaller I think, on Raritan Bay that goes undefeated in its class of 3-4 boats season after season with no sense of humor whatsoever and they are some of the biggest self-centered assholes I ever recall meeting on the water, and see no problem using sails from much faster boats. And it's super political - you can whine and fuss and get your rating changed for no good reason ... for God's sake, there's one Olson 30 down there that is rated 108, whereas the guys on the left coast do fine with 99.  That's 3-4 boat lengths a mile, for free -- crazy talk.

 

It's a dreary thing.  Good Mother of God, most of these rubes would get absolutely creamed in a halfway serious OD fleet. 

 

The best revenge is a good life.  Race in some OD regattas and you'll experience the heart of sailboat racing, regardless of how you finish.  You'll have an absolute blast.  I think you'll find that the sportsmanship is on a different plane altogeher. As an added benefit, you'll develop much crisper sailing habits, then find that you can clean up in most PHRF regattas with one hand tied behind your back.



#23 billy backstay

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:36 AM

Like I said, not really complainging.  Since our local OD fleet is gettig sketchy, like Milfords, maybe PHRF is all that is left to weekend warriors..



#24 Steam Flyer

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 02:58 AM

... ...

 And it's super political - you can whine and fuss and get your rating changed for no good reason ... for God's sake, there's one Olson 30 down there that is rated 108, whereas the guys on the left coast do fine with 99.  That's 3-4 boat lengths a mile, for free -- crazy talk....

... ...

 

Remember it's all relative. Weather & water is different in different places, just ferzample the Olson fares poorly in chop (although I think the West Coast has plenty of choppy venues). But it matters less what number a boat's rating is in different venues, as it's rating relative to other given boats.

 

For example, I have a Santana 23 which I don't sail enough. However there were a fair number of those boats made, there is a halfway decent tuning guide, it's rated in a wide number of regions; generally either just a little faster than a J-24 or just a little slower. The number varies from the low 160s to the high 170s but the J-24 rating also varies similarly.

 

I totally agree that racing OD sharpens up skills... I'd go a step further and say that sailing small tippy boats sharpens up boat-handling and prioritizing in greater degree in shorter time than sailing keelboats. Plus, it's a lot of fun.

 

But then so is racing in PHRF if you do it right.

 

FB- Doug






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