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how to splice spectra, when a block is on the other end..


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#1 Ross

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 04:08 AM

Ok so...

 

I have spliced a block to one end of my line.. Now I need to splice the other end around my boom.. How am I going to do that, considering I only have 1 free end..

 



#2 duncan (the other one)

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 10:44 AM

Firstly, do you really need a brummel ?  

 

I'd suggest splicing a loop in the block end of the line, but use a luggage-tag to connect the block after you've spliced onto the boom.

 

You'll have to describe what you're trying to achieve a little more -  alternatively, splice onto block, loop around boom, then luggage tag onto block - which leaves the boom connection floating and both ends of the line terminated at the block.



#3 quasi-expert

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 03:47 PM

10 sec of googling:

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=fIR5JdQ7TEo

 

http://www.neropes.c...iceBrummel.aspx



#4 No.6

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 04:40 PM

Brummels weaken the line and are unnecessary. Just use a class II splice.



#5 P_Wop

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 06:32 PM

Brummels weaken the line and are unnecessary. Just use a class II splice.

 

I'd disagree.  A properly made 5- or 6-cycle brummel, with a long and very well-tapered bury can and should get you up to 80% strength or more.



#6 mrgnstrn

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 01:28 AM

While these yahoos debate the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin....I'll answer your question.

Google john franta or brion toss, they have a way to splice an eye with access to one end.

Now, to make the splice around the boomeither take the block and pass it through the eye splice like you just made looping around the boom or take the eye splice you just made around the end of the boom.

it all depends on the mechanics of what the boom arrangement is as to how you get the eye splice around the boom.

a picture is worth a thousand words here.

as to whether to throw Brummel splice in or not I would go with Brion Toss or John Franta.
both of these guys a stake their reputations on how to splice line and both of these guys say you need a lock to keep it from slipping under low load.
for this spectra line low-load can be many thousands of pounds.
M

#7 Ross

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 02:18 AM

Hows this. I've spliced into the block. And the line has to go around the boom, and through a fairlead..

Attached Files



#8 duncan (the other one)

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 02:50 AM

put a big (spliced) loop in the free end, feed it through the tie-lite following the other line, and then loop it over the block (luggage-tag).

If it doesn't fit (it looks a bit tight), undo the block, splice to boom, luggage tag to block.

Or do away with the brummels altogether a put some lock stitches in to hold the splices under low load.

and mrgnstn... show me a one-ended brummel that passes through an eyelet or similar - I'm willing to be corrected here, but I haven't seen any.

#9 mustang__1

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 03:24 AM

i've seen it. i cant really remember it, but it basically starts off sort of inverterted. Then you pull it through itself and all of a sudden there is a locking brummel. There might be some fiber splitting verses a normal brummel but if not going close to the breaking strength of the line it should be ok. someone around here has to actually know how to do it. i was genuinely impressed when i saw it. 



#10 duncan (the other one)

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 03:45 AM

mustang.. yes. You can make a simple splice.

But try to make one with something fixed in the loop - you can't.

#11 USA190520

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 03:55 AM

What Duncan said.

Simple solution is splice to both the boom and block using a long bury and whip/stich each splice.

#12 allen

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 06:08 AM

What Duncan said.

Simple solution is splice to both the boom and block using a long bury and whip/stich each splice.

I support this solution.  I have tested a line with a brummel on one end and a stitched splice on the other.  The line broke in the middle.  The splices are stronger than the line if the taper is done correctly so don't worry about it.  Just use whichever one you want and in this case the stitched splice is the one to use.  Stitch with thread that has some stretch to it.  When the splice stretches if the stitching can't give, it will break. Broken stitching doesn't cause a problem in a strength test as the splice is way past locked up by then.  The stitching or brummel are for low load conditions.  You can find some testing data on my web site.

 

Allen



#13 haligonian winterr

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 10:02 AM

Colligo Marine has an excellent video of how to do this, I now use it as my standard.brummel, as I dont have to pull 20' of line through the brummel every time....

Colligo has quoted some big numbers with their method of splicing and loading, but seeing as they have rigs being held up by their work, im inclined to trust their judgement. (Also have never had a splice fail using this method)

They put thwir line terminators in the eye of the splice too, so ita doable.

In terma of this project, take everything off, brummel a big loop for the boom (make sure its big enough that the two sides have a fair lead angle into the splice, see the "Riggers Apprentice" invert brummel (colligo style) big enough to luggage tag the block, luggage tag the block, voila.

HW

i've seen it. i cant really remember it, but it basically starts off sort of inverterted. Then you pull it through itself and all of a sudden there is a locking brummel. There might be some fiber splitting verses a normal brummel but if not going close to the breaking strength of the line it should be ok. someone around here has to actually know how to do it. i was genuinely impressed when i saw it. 



#14 mrgnstrn

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 01:01 PM

put a big (spliced) loop in the free end, feed it through the tie-lite following the other line, and then loop it over the block (luggage-tag).

If it doesn't fit (it looks a bit tight), undo the block, splice to boom, luggage tag to block.

Or do away with the brummels altogether a put some lock stitches in to hold the splices under low load.

and mrgnstn... show me a one-ended brummel that passes through an eyelet or similar - I'm willing to be corrected here, but I haven't seen any.

 

 

so what is your "i've never seen it" question...how to splice a locked brummel with access to only one end?

this was the 2nd link down when I googled "brummel splice youtube"

the first one was brummel splicing some huge dockline shit.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=IxSi8igfChk

 

if the question is "how do you go thru the eye strap on the OP's boom while also locking it" there probably has to be a luggage tag in there somewhere.

 

to ROSS: for your situation,

mark the line where your knot is...

then take the line off and put an eyesplice there (one-ended brummel like in the link above).  make sure the eye of the splice is big enough to pass the whole block thru.

then thread the empty eye throught that metal strap and back down.  now slip the block and the rest of hte line thru the "new" eye you just made. 

 

-M



#15 USA190520

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 01:54 PM

Splicing a Brummell with only one end available is cake, doing it around an object is not.

#16 USA190520

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 02:52 PM

another way to do it without using luggage tags for a clean "seamless" look would be to make a continuous loop around the block and boom with the two parts of the loop passing through each other just below the boom and seized/whipped. Add a piece of dyneema chafe guard covering the lot up, buried/whipped between the fittings and youll have a nice looking strop thats twice as strong as the block. Essentially its a spliced figure eight and the cover only serves to keep it tidy.

 

 

seeing as how the boom and block look to be for a dinghy, I'm pretty confident that you wont ever come close to the load required to break a 4mm piece of spectra. That tielite will blow up at 600-800 lbs I'd guess, so, in the time it'd take to read this entire thread you could make a strop using a long bury eye on each end and whip/stitch or "whiplock ™" as APS calls it and be done.

 

 

sometimes the best way is the easiest way.

 

 

 

the trick to a brummel with only one end available is instead of passing the long end through the short "tail", mark where you'd pass it through the short tail then take make an opening at that mark, holding the 1/2 done splice so the Short tail is to your left, pass the opening you made to the right UP and OVER the loop created by your first pass. once you pass the loop through the opening and before you snap it down to lock it, take the short tail and pass it UP through the opening. now pull it down away from the loop and presto, a brummel with no twisted fibers and only one working end.

 

Ive not been able to figure out how to perform this with anything captive inside the loop, AFAIK its impossible.. 



#17 Merit 25

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 03:35 PM

Locking brummels are easy, but you can't make them around a closed object (like a tilite block) without having access to both ends.  No big deal, just do a long burry splice and lockstitch.  Just as strong.  And easy. 



#18 duncan (the other one)

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:47 AM


and mrgnstn... show me a one-ended brummel that passes through an eyelet or similar - I'm willing to be corrected here, but I haven't seen any.

 
 
so what is your "i've never seen it" question...how to splice a locked brummel with access to only one end?
this was the 2nd link down when I googled "brummel splice youtube"


.. please adjust your set and reparse what I wrote.

if the question is "how do you go thru the eye strap on the OP's boom while also locking it" there probably has to be a luggage tag in there somewhere.

Yes.. which is what I've said from reply 1.
 

to ROSS: for your situation,
mark the line where your knot is...
then take the line off and put an eyesplice there (one-ended brummel like in the link above).  make sure the eye of the splice is big enough to pass the whole block thru.
then thread the empty eye throught that metal strap and back down.  now slip the block and the rest of hte line thru the "new" eye you just made. 
 
-M

is there an echo in here?

#19 xyzzy

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 05:49 PM

Merit 25, on 01 Jul 2013 - 08:42, said:
Locking brummels are easy, but you can't make them around a closed object (like a tilite block) without having access to both ends.

In practice that's true, and the previous posters saying it's possible didn't understand the problem. But in theory you can do it. The trick is that the closed object needs to be so small that it can itself pass through the weave of the line when the brummel is being made. I can not think of why one would splice something that small to a line that large... maybe to splice to an eye in another line?

#20 tolachi

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 09:23 AM

Drill out one end of the fairlead.  Do the one ended brion toss brummel splice.  Slip the line over your boom & under the fairlead.  Rivet the fairlead back in place.



#21 Merit 25

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 04:05 PM

Can you draw me a picture?  I'm having a hard time picturing this being possible in a real application. 

 

 

Merit 25, on 01 Jul 2013 - 08:42, said:
Locking brummels are easy, but you can't make them around a closed object (like a tilite block) without having access to both ends.

In practice that's true, and the previous posters saying it's possible didn't understand the problem. But in theory you can do it. The trick is that the closed object needs to be so small that it can itself pass through the weave of the line when the brummel is being made. I can not think of why one would splice something that small to a line that large... maybe to splice to an eye in another line?


#22 USA190520

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:03 PM

there are zero practical reasons to try the theory. the object whould have to be extremely small and even then you couldnt achieve a tight loop because the object would limit the ability to pull the opening up and over the object filled loop.



#23 xyzzy

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:31 AM

Use the one end technique like this: http://www.sv-zanshi...orwebrev1_2.pdf

When making the first loop in step 4, place the object in the loop. Clearly there is no reason one can't do this. When the second loop is made and inverted in step 9, the object in the first loop doesn't make any difference. The part of the line with the first loop isn't used. Then in step 11, when the first loop is passed through the hole made in step 9, the object needs to go through the hole too.

As I said before, the object needs to be so small compared to the size of the line that I can't think of any real application. With 1/2" or larger amsteel you could probably fit a tiny lashing block or shackle through, but why, and how, would you splice such a tiny block or shackle to such huge amsteel?




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