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Davits or Arch?


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#1 Point Break

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 10:17 PM

I'm trying to decide which way to setup the boat. Primary need is to get the dink up for passages. Secondary would be a platform for solar if its an arch - if its davits the solar would probably go over the bimini but then we'll deal with boom shading impacting output. If its davits I think I might need a separate lifting pole to muscle the 20hp outboard onto the stern rail for bumpy water or really long passages. Have considered and pretty much rejected deck chocks on the forward deck. Don't want deck penetrations and don't want the foredeck cluttered when the dink is in the water. Don't anticipate any big blue water work but we do long coastal trips 25-50 miles offshore up and down the California coast from San Francisco to San Diego and Channel Islands and will do a trip down the Mexico/Baja for a season in Sea of Cortez so its not exactly day sailing either.

 

Don't bother with suggestions about a roll up and smaller motor. I have done that for 35 years on smaller boats and now want the load carrying capacity of the RIB and a motor to get it up on a plane with the two of us and all our dive gear or the two of us and a couple guests. Our days of austere camping/sailing are over.

 

Its a 47 foot boat.

 

Suggestions or experiences?



#2 Bob Perry

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 10:25 PM

We would have to see the boat.



#3 New Morning

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 10:30 PM

Based on your comments, I'd go with the arch.  It will get the dink up higher than the davits and give you a place to mount a lot of other stuff, from panels to light, GPS, AIS, etc.  I don't personally like them, but if the choice is davits or arch, I say arch.  I agree with keeping the foredeck clear.

 

In my 30,000+ ocean miles the roughest water I've sail is the coast of California north of Conception, then the Gulf Stream (on a bad day).  If you're planning to sail those waters then I'd set it up to be as rugged as if you were considering a Pacific crossing.

 

I used a hoist for a 15hp outboard with no problems (4 part purchase), but I stored it in a lazarette.  If you're going to mount it on the pushpit, make sure the pushpit can handle the weight when the boat is slamming around.



#4 curm

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 10:50 PM

I have a 130W solar panel mounted on my davits.  Easy to do.  I'll post a picture if anyone's interested.



#5 Point Break

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 01:20 AM

We would have to see the boat.

Its a Catalina 470 with the standard reverse transom. I know its not a Mercedes but a Chevy is all we could afford in that size and appointments.

 

CherryCove.jpg



#6 Bob Perry

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 02:24 AM

Point:

That's a damn fine looking boat. Nothing to apologize for there.

You can do an arch that incorporates davits but that can get heavy and clumsy looking. I'd go with sttraight davits if dinghy control is your target.



#7 sailglobal

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 02:51 AM

Saw a yacht called Perry-air (or something similar)in the Southern latitudes 20 odd years ago that had an OK looking arch. Not sure of the design but Bob Perry might know. It may help you if someone can round up a photo.

#8 sailSAK

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 06:18 AM

+1 Davits...   Some serious re-engineering to put an arch in that setup and then you have an arch.   



#9 Tom Ray

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 09:37 AM

Arch. It can carry solar panel, antennas, deck lights, rod holders, etc. My entry in the COTB competition, pic taken 1988.

 

Wahoo-Head700w.jpg



#10 Bob Perry

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 03:05 PM

Globs:

That was the Sopac 42. We called that arch the "linguine strut". My idea and in hindsite probably not a good one. Too much windage. I'm all for keeping the stern free of clutter, weight and windage.



#11 Jon Eisberg

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 03:21 PM

If you're gonna got for it, you may as well go Whole Hog...

 

Why settle merely for something like this... (trust me, there's not much wide angle distortion to this view)

 

 

CR422_zps4a525bcb.jpg

 

 

...when you could have something like THIS...

 

 

carib1500.jpg

 

 

That guy in the second pic has mad a major blunder, there... He was headed off on the Caribbean 1500, where of course he was likely to be on port tack most of the way, and likely to encounter a squall or two somewhere along the way... Either he needs a drain plug in the bow of that dink, or should have swapped it so the transom was to starboard...

 

I was running the CR 42 in lthe top pic down Chesapeake Bay last week, breeze out of the SE, in and out of some torrential rain squalls... TWICE, I had to furl the jib and come head to wind, just so I could drain the impressive amount of water that had collected in the tender... :-)



#12 Bob Perry

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 03:58 PM

Interesting observation Jon. That could be a lot of water.



#13 New Morning

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 06:23 PM

Water in the dink is definitely an issue.  We always hauled ours up at anchor with the drain open and transom down.  Just your run of the mill squall can dump an awful lot of water.  


When departing on a passage and the motor has been removed, hoist the dink upside down.  And while you're at it, deflate the tubes .  It will take 10 minutes more at departure and again at arrival, but then forget about it collecting water at all and reduce the windage.

 

While I agree with Bob that the aesthetics favor the davits, from a functional standpoint the arch is much more useful for a cruiser as they provide a location to mount lots of stuff while the davits have only one function.  I think the windage of the arch is negligible; 40' of 1.25" SS to build an arch is about 4 sq ft of windage.  The decision to put the dink on the transom versus foredeck (or below for a rollup) is a much more major decision than the arch versus davits with respect to windage.

 

Jon's pictures show how the arch will hold the dink much higher, and thus much further out of the path of a wave.



#14 kdh

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 09:17 PM

I've never regretted having the dinghy on the foredeck.
 
Makes a great wind scoop by just raising its bow.
 
I have Adele's sailing rig stowed inside it with bungees. We flip it over and lower it into the water with the spinnaker halyard. Rig the dinghy and off she goes.
 
satpmsunearly020.jpg



#15 SailAR

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 02:59 PM

Would seem to me that if you really are planning on spending a season in the Sea of Cortez, an arch with the accompanying solar power you can generate would be the right thing,  Refrigeration and watermaking become pretty important. The other important issue is having a setup that can get the dink out of the water easily.  Like anything, an easy operation means that you will do it, vs. leaving it in the water to become an obstacle late at night when the storms roll in and you start dragging, nevermind the security issue.



#16 Joli

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 04:22 PM

We tend to lift the dinghy and set it on the foredeck with the motor still on it.  Removable chocks are available if you want to go this way.  We use 3 square bumpers and ratchets to hold it in position.   With a 47 foot you may have enough room to do this and since you are only doing coastal jumps it may be the easiest option?



#17 Ritchard

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 05:12 PM

I've never regretted having the dinghy on the foredeck.
 
Makes a great wind scoop by just raising its bow.
 
I have Adele's sailing rig stowed inside it with bungees. We flip it over and lower it into the water with the spinnaker halyard. Rig the dinghy and off she goes.
 
satpmsunearly020.jpg

Beautiful boat.



#18 Veeger

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 05:22 PM

I've been unenthusiastic about davits since I experienced the security of chocks for stowing a dinghy.  This is especially true with an inflatable.  There is no way to prevent movement and chafe no matter how well cinched up the tubes are to the davit. Granted, this tends to limit the relative ease of use of davits if you have to stow on deck or on the foredeck.  If I had a hard dinghy with some sort of clamp that enabled the dinghy gunwales to be rigidly connected to the davits when stowed, (not to take the weight but to prevent movement) I'd be much happier.



#19 blackjenner

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 05:58 PM

We love our dingy davits on Brigadoon.  However, we have no plans to carry our dingy there when offshore.  It just seems too dangerous.  The dingy will live on the foredeck.

 

100_3506.JPG

 

We are still debating solar panels. They will either go on the top of the davits and stow in such a way as to not take any heavy waves.  We could always put a flexible set on the aft end of the bimini we built.

 

IMAGE_B3521386-9440-46F7-A94B-319528E2E4



#20 jamhass

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 06:08 PM

There are a number of 447's down here in the Sea of Cortez with arches having davits incorporated into them.  Sorry, no photos immediately available, but might find some if I search hard enough.  Might try looking on the Catalina Yahoo group (I'm pretty sure there is one) for photos/ideas/contacts.

 

If you can wait until you get to La Paz or PV, there are very good stainless guys down here that do excellent work and are very experienced fabricating and installing impressive arch/davit systems at a fraction of the cost in the US.  Can also try Ensenada.



#21 jtsailjt

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 10:53 PM


I've been unenthusiastic about davits since I experienced the security of chocks for stowing a dinghy.  This is especially true with an inflatable.  There is no way to prevent movement and chafe no matter how well cinched up the tubes are to the davit. Granted, this tends to limit the relative ease of use of davits if you have to stow on deck or on the foredeck.  If I had a hard dinghy with some sort of clamp that enabled the dinghy gunwales to be rigidly connected to the davits when stowed, (not to take the weight but to prevent movement) I'd be much happier.


I secured a rib on davits by pulling it up snug until touching both davits, then attaching a 2' section of 1.5" webbing with loop sewed in ends to padeye on transom, pulled under close dinghy tube and pulled tight and tied to davit. Then a longer line from transom, diagonally under dinghy to opposite davit or deck clear and lastly, from bow eye to opposite davit or deck cleat. Just to be sure I added 2 4"x6" patches to tube where they contacted davits but since they never showed any wear, they were unnecessary. 8 years and no chafe damage. If I was motoring and boat was level, I wouldn't bother with the 2 diagonal lines that day.

#22 laz8888

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 05:41 AM

Hi there from OZ. I Have some which pivot and collect and swing the dinghy up with the motor on My bene 44.7

 

In medium rough weather i lift off the motor and lie in the dinghy floor (center).

 

I bad stuff i put the moptor down below near as poss to the COG. and rooll up dinghy, but if it was a rigid floor i would deflate and store on deck.

 

Hope the pic comes thru.

 

laurie

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#23 laz8888

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 05:54 AM

Just found another pic from the side.

 

PS i did go for a lighter (roll up Zodic) 35kg app. and a lihter motor Tohatsu 9.8 26 kg.

 

Fitted dinghy cover keeps out water.

 

Cheers

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#24 Latadjust

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 12:13 AM

Guys, I have noticed that I am more and more interested in accesories that make for less lifting/wrestling/bending, but think I would prefer the foredeck for a secure mount and better sailing qualitites, but, how do you get the dinghy up on the foredeck easily, flip it upside down, without the afore mentioned lifting/wrestling/bending/back straining etc?

 

ps: How the heck do you spell check this kokamaimee reply text, and how do you spell kokamaimee?



#25 Ishmael

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 12:21 AM

Guys, I have noticed that I am more and more interested in accesories that make for less lifting/wrestling/bending, but think I would prefer the foredeck for a secure mount and better sailing qualitites, but, how do you get the dinghy up on the foredeck easily, flip it upside down, without the afore mentioned lifting/wrestling/bending/back straining etc?

 

ps: How the heck do you spell check this kokamaimee reply text, and how do you spell kokamaimee?

 

Cockamamie.



#26 bpw

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 12:41 AM

I have been from San Francisco to Antarctica on sailboats over the last couple years and still the largest, steepest waves I have been in where off the California coast. No way I would carry a dinghy in davits off Northern California. The davits will be great once you are in Mexico, but make sure you have some other way to store the dinghy on the trip down.

Please try to avoid the latest cruiser trend of seeing how much shit you can hang off the stern, some nice low profile davits are great, but no need for a 15 foot tall arch with 3 radars, 5 solar panels, 2 wind generators, a dinghy, 2 outboards and a half dozen fishing rods.

#27 Bob Perry

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 01:02 AM

Darch.



#28 blurocketsmate

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 04:01 AM

What about the tip-up type?  Especially for a wide stern modern sailboat with a swim step.

 

IMG00098-20100519-1314.jpg



#29 Jon Eisberg

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 05:43 AM

What about the tip-up type?  Especially for a wide stern modern sailboat with a swim step.

 

IMG00098-20100519-1314.jpg

 

On a sailing vessel, in a seaway, that could be a good way to have a tender torn free of the transom... :-)

 

Here's a good look I saw last month, headed south...

 

Hey, who says sailing is dead?

 

I thought the use of a stern perch seat as storage for the Honda 2000 was especially clever...

 

 

catalina387_zps904a287b.jpg



#30 NoStrings

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 06:01 AM

Oh my...

#31 blurocketsmate

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 06:12 AM

What about the tip-up type?  Especially for a wide stern modern sailboat with a swim step.

 

 

 

On a sailing vessel, in a seaway, that could be a good way to have a tender torn free of the transom... :-)

 

 

I wouldn't worry much going to Catalina and back.  I missed the "to San Francisco and Baja" part!



#32 Leka

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 08:50 AM

I thought this looked OK.

 

Infamous boat/owner..........

Boat is now for sale for $79,000

 

IMG_0251.jpg



#33 IStream

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 03:10 PM

Is that where they mount the giant outboard when the wind's blowing the wrong way?

 

CIMG6954.jpg



#34 snowflyer

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 12:31 AM

We had davits similar to Brigadoon.  Coming across the Straight of Georgia there was an opposing wind and current to the Fraser River and a pretty steep sea set up.  The dink was only just touching the water as the boat pitched, but the suction as it got yanked out of the water was enough that on every wave it was getting lower and lower making the whole thing worser and worser until I dropped it in the water and towed it.  It doesn't look like you really have room on either side of the mast though... so get it as high as you can IMO.

 

>>Infamous boat/owner..........

Did I miss some excitement about Bumfuzzle?

 

:D



#35 jdw

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 01:06 AM

We're happy with the davit/arch combo. I've become use to the look of the arch and see it as very useful gear.

Attached File  IMG_1457.jpg   146.98K   44 downloads



#36 Maxx Baqustae

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 01:08 AM

Globs:

That was the Sopac 42. We called that arch the "linguine strut". My idea and in hindsite probably not a good one. Too much windage. I'm all for keeping the stern free of clutter, weight and windage.

I loved the Sopac 42. Beautiful boat. Beautiful workmanship...and....er...design ;). Was the windage the problem? I couldn't think that they weren't selling more. I just thought it was ahead of it's time really. Maybe I thought it  was the '70's Mopar wing that people didn't like. Later along didn't a certain bottle bleach builder made a big market dent with what we used to call "handle" boats.

 

Who knew?



#37 ccruiser

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 07:34 PM

Guys, I have noticed that I am more and more interested in accesories that make for less lifting/wrestling/bending, but think I would prefer the foredeck for a secure mount and better sailing qualitites, but, how do you get the dinghy up on the foredeck easily, flip it upside down, without the afore mentioned lifting/wrestling/bending/back straining etc?

 

ps: How the heck do you spell check this kokamaimee reply text, and how do you spell kokamaimee?

We made up a lifting bridle out of spectra to which we attach the spin halyard and use it to lift it on deck.  It flips over easily once above the lifelines, so it can be lowered to the deck resting on its side, then we deflate, it if going offshore, and turn it over. If just going Island to island we leave it inflated and turn it over, but we usually just tow on those short trips using a towing bridle).  The only issue we have with this is you have to tie the bow forward to prevent the dinghy from moving back as it's lifted.  Using the halyard allows us to use a winch, so its not much of a strain, the wife does it, with me working the dinghy.

 

Reversing the process just attach the lifting bridle use the winch to lift it on its side, inflate it, (however you want to do that), and continue to lift keeping it off the stanchions, and remembering to tie it forward, and lower it into the water.  She and I, and we are not young, do it ourselves.

 

I have looked at arch/davits and just cannot get over the weight in the ends issue.



#38 Deadhead

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 04:18 AM

I went for an arch. Holds the dink, 2 solar panels, and AIS antenna.

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#39 Capt Ron

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 05:05 PM

I haven't heard this argument yet but I had davits on my Ericson 38 and had a big solar panel mounted on the cross beam above the davits.  On the Ericson, the stern ladder makes up part of the stern rail when folded up.  With the ladder up and the dinghy on the davits, there's no way to lower the ladder or even space to climb up under the dinghy and over (or through) the stern rail.  

 

Now some might consider that decent passive security but I would say that it hinders MOB recovery operations.  For instance, If I went overboard and the wife had to not only come back to me but also to undo all the straps and such required to lower the dinghy just to deploy a ladder that I could use to get back on board; I would think that nearly impossible.  After all, I never went over but I used to look at that arrangement and think we'd have been better off with the dink lashed to the foredeck.  

 

The open transom of the Catalina might not be so bad but in the picture it looks like your boarding ladder is pinned by the dinghy too.  



#40 Ishmael

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 05:19 PM

I haven't heard this argument yet but I had davits on my Ericson 38 and had a big solar panel mounted on the cross beam above the davits.  On the Ericson, the stern ladder makes up part of the stern rail when folded up.  With the ladder up and the dinghy on the davits, there's no way to lower the ladder or even space to climb up under the dinghy and over (or through) the stern rail.  

 

Now some might consider that decent passive security but I would say that it hinders MOB recovery operations.  For instance, If I went overboard and the wife had to not only come back to me but also to undo all the straps and such required to lower the dinghy just to deploy a ladder that I could use to get back on board; I would think that nearly impossible.  After all, I never went over but I used to look at that arrangement and think we'd have been better off with the dink lashed to the foredeck.  

 

The open transom of the Catalina might not be so bad but in the picture it looks like your boarding ladder is pinned by the dinghy too.  

 

If you're MOB it would probably be a better bet to come back on amidships. A portable ladder that can go either side would be a much safer option.



#41 Bob Perry

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 06:16 PM

Yes, looks good and gets the dink up where you can see my beautiful fanny. Just lovely.



#42 Jose Carumba

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 09:15 PM

I haven't heard this argument yet but I had davits on my Ericson 38 and had a big solar panel mounted on the cross beam above the davits.  On the Ericson, the stern ladder makes up part of the stern rail when folded up.  With the ladder up and the dinghy on the davits, there's no way to lower the ladder or even space to climb up under the dinghy and over (or through) the stern rail.  

 

Now some might consider that decent passive security but I would say that it hinders MOB recovery operations.  For instance, If I went overboard and the wife had to not only come back to me but also to undo all the straps and such required to lower the dinghy just to deploy a ladder that I could use to get back on board; I would think that nearly impossible.  After all, I never went over but I used to look at that arrangement and think we'd have been better off with the dink lashed to the foredeck.  

 

The open transom of the Catalina might not be so bad but in the picture it looks like your boarding ladder is pinned by the dinghy too.  

 

If you're MOB it would probably be a better bet to come back on amidships. A portable ladder that can go either side would be a much safer option.

 

I agree Ish.  Except in calm water the transom is no place to haul someone aboard.  One whack from the counter as the boat pitches and your a gonner.  Amidships is the better place.  A halyard can be better utilized and the motion (roll) of the boat can be used to help haul the person in.






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