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#1 Bull City

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 12:50 AM

I posted this under "Sailing." It didn't generate much response. Don't know if it's the topic or the placement. Anyway, here 'tis.

 

Has anybody had sailing experience with any of the recent daysailor/weekenders, such as:

 

Bridges Point 24

Alerion 26

Harbor 25

Alerion Express 28

 

I would be interested in hearing your impressions. I've been sailing a J-22 on an inland lake in N.C. I really like the boat, but I'm thinking I might like something with a little more in overnight comfort, but definitely not a cruising boat, and perhaps a little more stability. 

 

I do a little informal PHRF with a lot of Hunters and Catalinas, so I like a boat that is a spirited sailor. We sail year round. Things I would like:

 

Good sailing characteristics especially in 5 to 15 knots - seas not an issue

Fixed keel

Can be single handed

Prefer fractional rig, since trimming jib is easier

Tiller steering

Large sit-in cockpit

No lifelines

Inboard would be nice but not required

Navigation lights needed

Electronics not necessary

Sleep 2

Head - porta-pottie OK

Room for a one burner stove - don't need a sink or freshwater tank

 

There's a sweet looking Alerion 26 on YachtWorld.com for $63K which is probably at the upper end of my budget.

 

Thanks.

 



#2 Steam Flyer

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 02:26 AM

I posted this under "Sailing." It didn't generate much response. Don't know if it's the topic or the placement. Anyway, here 'tis.

 

Has anybody had sailing experience with any of the recent daysailor/weekenders, such as:

 

Bridges Point 24

Alerion 26

Harbor 25

Alerion Express 28

 

I would be interested in hearing your impressions. I've been sailing a J-22 on an inland lake in N.C. I really like the boat, but I'm thinking I might like something with a little more in overnight comfort, but definitely not a cruising boat, and perhaps a little more stability. 

 

I do a little informal PHRF with a lot of Hunters and Catalinas, so I like a boat that is a spirited sailor. We sail year round. Things I would like:

 

Good sailing characteristics especially in 5 to 15 knots - seas not an issue

Fixed keel

Can be single handed

Prefer fractional rig, since trimming jib is easier

Tiller steering

Large sit-in cockpit

No lifelines

Inboard would be nice but not required

Navigation lights needed

Electronics not necessary

Sleep 2

Head - porta-pottie OK

Room for a one burner stove - don't need a sink or freshwater tank

 

There's a sweet looking Alerion 26 on YachtWorld.com for $63K which is probably at the upper end of my budget.

 

Thanks.

 

The odds are high that if you buy an Alerion and keep it in top shape, you'll be able to sell it for pretty much what you've got in it and probably not lose mch to inflation. It's a beautiful boat... just as much so in person as in photos... and it sails great. I have never owned one but daysailed several from time to time and raced against one more often. They sail quite sweetly and they're faster than many would expect.

 

FB- Doug



#3 Jose Carumba

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 03:32 AM

First, I hate to be a spelling/grammar nazi but before this goes any farther a "day sailor" is a person who day sails. A "day sailer" is a boat for day sailing. Even manufacturers and brokerages are getting this wrong. Drives me nuts. Spelling does count. Don't get me started on using "planning" for "planing".

Rant over.

#4 kimbottles

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 03:48 AM

First, I hate to be a spelling/grammar nazi but before this goes any farther a "day sailor" is a person who day sails. A "day sailer" is a boat for day sailing. Even manufacturers and brokerages are getting this wrong. Drives me nuts. Spelling does count. Don't get me started on using "planning" for "planing".

Rant over.

But what about a Daysailor and Daysailer???



#5 Jose Carumba

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 03:59 AM

First, I hate to be a spelling/grammar nazi but before this goes any farther a "day sailor" is a person who day sails. A "day sailer" is a boat for day sailing. Even manufacturers and brokerages are getting this wrong. Drives me nuts. Spelling does count. Don't get me started on using "planning" for "planing".
Rant over.

But what about a Daysailor and Daysailer???

No sails for you! Erh me, uh... Stupid spell check! Yeah, thats it!

#6 Bull City

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 01:12 PM

Steam, just to be sure, are you referring to the Alerion 26?



#7 Steam Flyer

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 02:31 PM

Steam, just to be sure, are you referring to the Alerion 26?

 

Yep, used to be one sailed here quite a lot, also seen 'em a few other places

PM sent

 

FB- Doug



#8 MidPack

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 02:45 PM

Very handsome boats, but why not buy a larger used J? More creature comforts and performance. I gather you want something under 30' so J/30, J/29, J27 presumably in budget. I've been tempted by the Alerion 28, but lots of brightwork for someone to maintain.

#9 SemiSalt

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 03:03 PM

What is the PHRF rating range of the boats you want to race against?

 

The Bridges Point 24 is a lovely boat and fast for it's type, but I doubt it's in the same league as the new fin-keel designs.

 

If your budget goes over $50K, you have lots of choice. Among the things I'd be paying attention to are

 

1) Is the head private and usable, or just present as on the Capri 22?

2) What is the auxiliary power? There are lots of annoying choices. The size boat is really too big for an OB unless it's in a proper well. A sail drive may require that the boat be hauled in the winter. 

3) Cockpit layout. My time in smaller boats have gotten me used to really good visibility from the helm. Most any seated position in the cockpit of a cruising boat won't do, however most cruisers are not laid out to be comfortable steering from an outboard seated position.  



#10 Cement_Shoes

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 03:12 PM

why are you so against lifelines?

that rules out a huge chunk of boats that would otherwise fit the bill. and if you want to race it is highly unlikely you could buy a boat with lifelines and remove them and be allowed to enter regattas.

#11 Bull City

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 06:44 PM

Some answers:

PHRF range: Fleet usually six to seven boats; ratings 127 to 210.

JBoats: I imagine some of them have been "rode hard and put up wet." I was lucky with mine.

J29: I don't like the chopped up cockpit and it's pretty beamy.

J27: Definite possibility, except the traveler cuts up the cockpit which is one of the few things I don't like about the J22.

Head: It doesn't have to be in a private compartment. If it's below, it will meet most needs for modesty or basic sanitation.

Visibility: I agree with SemiSalt - being able to see from a seated position in the cockpit is important.

Lifelines: My J22 had them and I removed them along with the stern rail. They really got in the way. I've had no regrets.



#12 Cement_Shoes

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 07:45 PM

I agree lifelines on a j22 are a pain in the ass. boat is too small for them. however on bigger boats other than the aesthetics it is as totally different experience. you aren't constantly maneuvering around the life lines.

I wouldn't make no lifelines an absolute must when boat shopping. though it doesn't sound like you are.

#13 Bob Perry

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 07:55 PM

I am designing a new custom 42'er for a Seattle client. He calls it a "weekender".



#14 kimbottles

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 08:01 PM

I am designing a new custom 42'er for a Seattle client. He calls it a "weekender".


Bob's 62 foot Sliver design is basically a weekender.

#15 Cement_Shoes

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 08:05 PM

I am designing a new custom 42'er for a Seattle client. He calls it a "weekender".



would you call it a weekender? accommodation wise? I look at some of these 50foot+ daysailers and shake my head sometimes. but people are wise to get the boat that fits how they sail and maximizes the enjoyment they get out of their boat..

#16 Bob Perry

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 09:34 PM

Shoes;

I'll call it Fred if that's what the client wants.

Me? I don't call it anything. I';s just another custom boat to particular client requirements.

On the title block I'll call it a 42' Sloop and leave it at that.



#17 Cement_Shoes

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 09:56 PM

Shoes;
I'll call it Fred if that's what the client wants.
Me? I don't call it anything. I';s just another custom boat to particular client requirements.
On the title block I'll call it a 42' Sloop and leave it at that.


fair enough. I suppose it is the audience and not the creator that is eager to slap on a label.

I was thinking along the lines of what I would consider the typical cabin of a weekender to be. and after I mentally fit everything in, there is a lot of space leftover in even a narrow 42' hull.

i assume maximixing interior volume isnt a comcern. I envision something with some classic long overhangs. low freeboard. small cabin top.

#18 jim lee

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 10:18 PM

I am designing a new custom 42'er for a Seattle client. He calls it a "weekender".


Bob's 62 foot Sliver design is basically a weekender.

 

Take the reciprocal/inverse of that and you get a 26 footer. We have one of those that might fit the bill..

 

 

-jim lee



#19 Bob Perry

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 10:41 PM

Shoes;

For me being a "weekend" would mean that I design from the outside in. On most of my cruising boats I have to design from the inside out

It's a priority thing.

On the 42'er I am designing from the outside in.



#20 kdh

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 12:07 AM

Outside in for me, thank you, even if it's a cruising boat.

 

Making a run for Nantucket in a week or so with my brother and some childhood buddies. Four nights on the boat--snoring, music, talking about girls we used to know.



#21 steele

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 12:28 AM

It seems a lot of older boats once thought to be cruisers now would fit in the weekender category. Pearson 30s, Tartan 30s, Yankee 30s, Islanders etc all are tiller boats with good visibility, big cockpits, small inboards and simple interiors with a two burner cooktop, enclosed head and not much else. Many were marketed as sleeping 4-6, but are really only usable overnight for 2 adults.

They lack the fractional rig and would be a step down performance wise, but could be a bargain option. To single hand some updates on deck would be nice, but a lot less $ overall than some of the other options. You could take the lifelines off if you want, they will have water tanks, but if you want a cooktop you will have dirty pots and dishes so a sink and some water is pretty handy.

#22 Bull City

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 01:02 AM

To go a little further on Steele's comment, there have been some interesting restorations of cruiser/racers to weekenders. It usually involves lengthening the cockpit at the expense of the cabin, reducing the galley and often simplifying or eliminating systems, such as a fresh water system.

 

I've been reading Herreshoff's "Sensible Cruising Designs" and his design approach to coastal cruising, which is the most that many of us do, makes a great deal of sense.



#23 miloman

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 01:06 AM

I've sailed on several Bridges Points.  The shape is a sort of scaled up and stretched Herreshoff 12.5.  They are nice daysailers well suited to the conditions you mentioned. Wade Dow has a reputation as an excellent builder, too.  They're definitely not as performance oriented as the Alerion 28 Express or Harbor 25, but still a very satisfying and spirited to sail.  They have a nice comfortable cockpit if I remember correctly.  A lot better looking than the Alerion 28 or Harbor 25 in my opinion.  A Bridges Point and an Alerion 28 Express were both moored in front of where I was living last summer.  By the end of the summer, something about the Alerion irked me... the Bridges Point still looked sweet.

 

The Alerion 26 is, of course, a beauty.  And I can't imagine she'll be anything short of wonderful to sail.



#24 Bull City

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 02:33 AM

Has anybody had sailing experience with any of the recent daysailor/weekenders, such as:

 

Bridges Point 24

Alerion 26

Harbor 25

Alerion Express 28

 

I would be interested in hearing your impressions. I've been sailing a J-22 on an inland lake in N.C. I really like the boat, but I'm thinking I might like something with a little more in overnight comfort, but definitely not a cruising boat, and perhaps a little more stability. 


Thanks.

 

I left out the Tartan Fantail.



#25 SloopJonB

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 06:35 AM

First, I hate to be a spelling/grammar nazi but before this goes any farther a "day sailor" is a person who day sails. A "day sailer" is a boat for day sailing. Even manufacturers and brokerages are getting this wrong. Drives me nuts. Spelling does count. Don't get me started on using "planning" for "planing".

Rant over.

 

It certainly does count.


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#26 Tucky

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 11:20 AM

Agree.

 

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#27 Veeger

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 03:26 PM

Has anybody had sailing experience with any of the recent daysailor/weekenders, such as:

 

Bridges Point 24

Alerion 26

Harbor 25

Alerion Express 28

 

I would be interested in hearing your impressions. I've been sailing a J-22 on an inland lake in N.C. I really like the boat, but I'm thinking I might like something with a little more in overnight comfort, but definitely not a cruising boat, and perhaps a little more stability. 


Thanks.

 

I left out the Tartan Fantail.

My biggest beef with all of these 'daysailer/weekenders' is that they make adding an effective PNW soft dodger very difficult.   It's either due to the vang placement, hatch access or boom height. I like sailing in the off season here and it's cold and wet all too often.  Some wind/water/rain protection while sailing is critical.   Most, if not all of these boats seem designed for a sunny New England afternoon summer sail.  The J 100 has a dodger that 'almost' works.  There is a difference between sitting 'behind' a dodger and sitting 'under' a dodger.  I want the latter.



#28 Bull City

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 09:22 PM

My biggest beef with all of these 'daysailer/weekenders' is that they make adding an effective PNW soft dodger very difficult.   It's either due to the vang placement, hatch access or boom height. I like sailing in the off season here and it's cold and wet all too often.  Some wind/water/rain protection while sailing is critical.   Most, if not all of these boats seem designed for a sunny New England afternoon summer sail.  The J 100 has a dodger that 'almost' works.  There is a difference between sitting 'behind' a dodger and sitting 'under' a dodger.  I want the latter.

 

I sail my J22 on a lake without a dodger. I get some spray. It amuses me that are some 30' plus boats on the lake that have dodgers. I can't imagine them ever getting wet with spray.

 

On the other hand, I sail with a friend who has a Tartan 34 on the Pamlico Sound, and I'm very thankful that he has a dodger where I can curl up.

 

I guess the smaller the boat the more difficult it is to fit it with a dodger or Bimini, and with lower free board and lower deck houses, they're wetter. Just like the old days.

 

I am in the process of making an over-the-boom cockpit awning to use at anchor. It will be a treat to get out of the sun.






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