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What's the goss on the Farr 280?


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#1 DamnSkippy

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 03:36 PM

Any new's on this design?



#2 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 05:17 PM

even without one clue i'm gonna predict it weighs twice what a sportsboat does 

 

 

anyway what 'news' have you received ? post it

 

btw computer says 'NO'  ( ie google)  



#3 Ryley

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 07:12 PM

even without one clue i'm gonna predict it weighs twice what a sportsboat does 

 

 

anyway what 'news' have you received ? post it

 

btw computer says 'NO'  ( ie google)  

so does the farr official website. I mean there's vaporware, and then there's wishfulthinkingware



#4 Myouri

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 08:32 PM

I heard the builder for it  was signed last week.



#5 Patrick Shaughnessy

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 02:09 PM

I know a bit about the Farr 280. What would you like to know?



#6 bloodshot

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 03:14 PM

the organization website is not quite up and going: http://www.statscrop...www/farr280.org



#7 Patrick Shaughnessy

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 08:23 PM

Yes, we've reserved some of the likely names that the class associated will end up needing. Nothing has been developed yet for a website.



#8 Myouri

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 12:04 AM

Patrick when can we expect the first line drawings of the boat? What is the expected launch date of hull number one?



#9 frayedsheet

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 08:05 AM

Basic specs:

 

Hull:

 

LOA: 8.5m (27.96ft)

Sailing weight (incl. basic safeties & motor, excl. crew and sails): 800 - 900kg.

Draft: 2.2m

Keel bulb: 350kg

Beam: 2.5m, with folding flares to achieve 3.5m

J: 3.3m

STL: 5.7m

 

Rig:

 

Elliptical section of max weight 30kg fully rigged

P: 10.75m

E: 3.9m

 

Accomodation:

 

Companionway set just aft of keel. Non fully enclosed case so cabin is clear when keel bolted down.(eg M32)

V berth plus 2 quarter berths.

Basic lightweight/removable galley facilities (excl. from sailing weight).

Plumbed in, relatively easily removable toilet via good placement of valves (excl. from sailing weight).

 

Propulsion:

 

Via 6hp four stroke outboard (25kgs) in central well just aft of keel. Lid closes when motoring for acoustics.

 

Shipping:

 

Fits in 40ft container

 

Pricing:

 

USD70K excl. delivery, sails, outboard and trailer 



#10 Gingerbread

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 09:58 AM

Nice, sail plan or other diagrams available?

 

 

Basic specs:

 

Hull:

 

LOA: 8.5m (27.96ft)

Sailing weight (incl. basic safeties & motor, excl. crew and sails): 800 - 900kg.

Draft: 2.2m

Keel bulb: 350kg

Beam: 2.5m, with folding flares to achieve 3.5m

J: 3.3m

STL: 5.7m

 

Rig:

 

Elliptical section of max weight 30kg fully rigged

P: 10.75m

E: 3.9m

 

Accomodation:

 

Companionway set just aft of keel. Non fully enclosed case so cabin is clear when keel bolted down.(eg M32)

V berth plus 2 quarter berths.

Basic lightweight/removable galley facilities (excl. from sailing weight).

Plumbed in, relatively easily removable toilet via good placement of valves (excl. from sailing weight).

 

Propulsion:

 

Via 6hp four stroke outboard (25kgs) in central well just aft of keel. Lid closes when motoring for acoustics.

 

Shipping:

 

Fits in 40ft container

 

Pricing:

 

USD70K excl. delivery, sails, outboard and trailer 



#11 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 12:00 PM

.

frayed

 

 

What's it Rate ?



#12 Patrick Shaughnessy

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:05 PM

Nothing that frayedsheet has posted relates to the Farr 280. Sorry.

 

The Farr 280 is a new Grand Prix level One Design. The conceptual work has been completed at FYD, and the project is moving ahead very quickly anticipating boat 1 launch in the spring. We are working to wrap up a few details so that we have all our i's dotted, and t's crossed before we release a group of initial promo work. Stand by a few weeks and we will have a full roll out.



#13 Savage 17

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:14 PM

How much different is this boat then Farr 25 OD? I liked the Farr 25 OD, but it never really took off. How many Farr 25 OD were built? Wasn't the Farr 25 OD supposed to be the new Grand Prix level One Design when it was designed?

 

I'm glad a new boat is coming out! I look forward to seeing the designs!



#14 Patrick Shaughnessy

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:46 PM

The Farr 25 is certainly a great boat. It inst really a Grand Prix boat as much as its a good performing boat at many points of sail, rather than being very good at one thing at the expense of another. It didn't take off for a number of reasons; conceptually it lacked transportability features that buyers in that size range want, it isn't priced aggressively enough, and not enough people are knowledgeable about the builder. We felt like even with those truths that we could sell them in the US if we could get one in the US to show off. We haven't been able to achieve that yet, but I'm confident that if people could see the boat, that they would be impressed. I know I am.

 

The Farr 280 is intended to make Grand Prix racing features a bit more affordable for the rest of us. The idea is to place a boat in the 25-30ft gap that gives you the image of a TP52, without the cost of a TP52. We think people like to look at those boats and dream. We want them to have the GP features, and in a real performance boat, so that they go fast and have fun. GP features can and do make sailing fun, and forward looking. We don't think anyone wants to just keep doing the same thing. If they do, then they have no reason to move on from their current boat. We are trying to make a reason to change. We just need to do it at the right cost and size to make it achievable for enough people. Those are the i's and t's were trying to get just right now. A tad more patience required....



#15 BobJ

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 04:25 PM

One thing guys like frayed could do if they're interested in marketing anything in the US is to use feet and pounds.  You got the LOA and $US easily enough, how about the rest?

 

Even if it's not a real boat . . .



#16 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 06:50 PM

The Farr 25 is certainly a great boat. It inst really a Grand Prix boat as much as its a good performing boat at many points of sail, rather than being very good at one thing at the expense of another. It didn't take off for a number of reasons; conceptually it lacked transportability features that buyers in that size range want, it isn't priced aggressively enough, and not enough people are knowledgeable about the builder. We felt like even with those truths that we could sell them in the US if we could get one in the US to show off. We haven't been able to achieve that yet, but I'm confident that if people could see the boat, that they would be impressed. I know I am.

 

The Farr 280 is intended to make Grand Prix racing features a bit more affordable for the rest of us. The idea is to place a boat in the 25-30ft gap that gives you the image of a TP52, without the cost of a TP52. We think people like to look at those boats and dream. We want them to have the GP features, and in a real performance boat, so that they go fast and have fun. GP features can and do make sailing fun, and forward looking. We don't think anyone wants to just keep doing the same thing. If they do, then they have no reason to move on from their current boat. We are trying to make a reason to change. We just need to do it at the right cost and size to make it achievable for enough people. Those are the i's and t's were trying to get just right now. A tad more patience required....

 

Is the GP26 rule dead in the water ? seems like you've gone to a far bit of trouble to avoid it 

 

or is it that they (specs) are too slow 

 

is this a fixed keelboat, ie not a ramp launcher lke a true portable Sportsboat ? 



#17 Savage 17

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 07:01 PM

The Farr 25 is certainly a great boat. It inst really a Grand Prix boat as much as its a good performing boat at many points of sail, rather than being very good at one thing at the expense of another. It didn't take off for a number of reasons; conceptually it lacked transportability features that buyers in that size range want, it isn't priced aggressively enough, and not enough people are knowledgeable about the builder. We felt like even with those truths that we could sell them in the US if we could get one in the US to show off. We haven't been able to achieve that yet, but I'm confident that if people could see the boat, that they would be impressed. I know I am.

 

The Farr 280 is intended to make Grand Prix racing features a bit more affordable for the rest of us. The idea is to place a boat in the 25-30ft gap that gives you the image of a TP52, without the cost of a TP52. We think people like to look at those boats and dream. We want them to have the GP features, and in a real performance boat, so that they go fast and have fun. GP features can and do make sailing fun, and forward looking. We don't think anyone wants to just keep doing the same thing. If they do, then they have no reason to move on from their current boat. We are trying to make a reason to change. We just need to do it at the right cost and size to make it achievable for enough people. Those are the i's and t's were trying to get just right now. A tad more patience required....

 

Is the GP26 rule dead in the water ? seems like you've gone to a far bit of trouble to avoid it 

 

or is it that they (specs) are too slow 

 

is this a fixed keelboat, ie not a ramp launcher lke a true portable Sportsboat ? 

 

The GP26's that are in the USA aren't setting the world on fire. I know they are having problems beating the Melges 24 boat for boat.

 

I think it is better to stay away from the rule.



#18 Christian

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 07:12 PM

Are you serious?

 

The Farr 25 is certainly a great boat. It inst really a Grand Prix boat as much as its a good performing boat at many points of sail, rather than being very good at one thing at the expense of another. It didn't take off for a number of reasons; conceptually it lacked transportability features that buyers in that size range want, it isn't priced aggressively enough, and not enough people are knowledgeable about the builder. We felt like even with those truths that we could sell them in the US if we could get one in the US to show off. We haven't been able to achieve that yet, but I'm confident that if people could see the boat, that they would be impressed. I know I am.

 

The Farr 280 is intended to make Grand Prix racing features a bit more affordable for the rest of us. The idea is to place a boat in the 25-30ft gap that gives you the image of a TP52, without the cost of a TP52. We think people like to look at those boats and dream. We want them to have the GP features, and in a real performance boat, so that they go fast and have fun. GP features can and do make sailing fun, and forward looking. We don't think anyone wants to just keep doing the same thing. If they do, then they have no reason to move on from their current boat. We are trying to make a reason to change. We just need to do it at the right cost and size to make it achievable for enough people. Those are the i's and t's were trying to get just right now. A tad more patience required....

 

Is the GP26 rule dead in the water ? seems like you've gone to a far bit of trouble to avoid it 

 

or is it that they (specs) are too slow 

 

is this a fixed keelboat, ie not a ramp launcher lke a true portable Sportsboat ? 

 

The GP26's that are in the USA aren't setting the world on fire. I know they are having problems beating the Melges 24 boat for boat.

 

I think it is better to stay away from the rule.



#19 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 07:44 PM

 

The Farr 25 is certainly a great boat. It inst really a Grand Prix boat as much as its a good performing boat at many points of sail, rather than being very good at one thing at the expense of another. It didn't take off for a number of reasons; conceptually it lacked transportability features that buyers in that size range want, it isn't priced aggressively enough, and not enough people are knowledgeable about the builder. We felt like even with those truths that we could sell them in the US if we could get one in the US to show off. We haven't been able to achieve that yet, but I'm confident that if people could see the boat, that they would be impressed. I know I am.

 

The Farr 280 is intended to make Grand Prix racing features a bit more affordable for the rest of us. The idea is to place a boat in the 25-30ft gap that gives you the image of a TP52, without the cost of a TP52. We think people like to look at those boats and dream. We want them to have the GP features, and in a real performance boat, so that they go fast and have fun. GP features can and do make sailing fun, and forward looking. We don't think anyone wants to just keep doing the same thing. If they do, then they have no reason to move on from their current boat. We are trying to make a reason to change. We just need to do it at the right cost and size to make it achievable for enough people. Those are the i's and t's were trying to get just right now. A tad more patience required....

 

Is the GP26 rule dead in the water ? seems like you've gone to a far bit of trouble to avoid it 

 

or is it that they (specs) are too slow 

 

is this a fixed keelboat, ie not a ramp launcher lke a true portable Sportsboat ? 

 

The GP26's that are in the USA aren't setting the world on fire. I know they are having problems beating the Melges 24 boat for boat.

 

I think it is better to stay away from the rule.

 

I've been trying to tell the Gp26 Svengalis that for years on here, but they are up to their ears in kool-aid

 

We have a GP in Sydney, bespoke hi tech build, may even be quicker than the US design

 

our motley bunch of older thompsons and the like ( mixed design SBing down here) give it curry

 

SBs are lighter, equiv. RM with bigger sails basically, and easier to sail, no Gut-Cutters  

 

they will crap on any Farr 25 and the like too.

 

thing is these are the legacy 'road rules compliant' boats at apx 8'2" wide maxxing at 26'LOA,

in other areas in AUS the 12' wide boats can be another 5 minutes up the track at least doing M32 speeds.

 

I think the gp26 has its niche as the SBs are inshore or near-shore racers, and the GP types could get to Cat3 for some new millenium JOG type racing, however NO_ONE goes ocean-racing in little boats any longer

The golden era of 1/4 tonners and long haired blokes offshore in 26 footers was a 70s thang    



#20 bloodshot

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 07:51 PM

Are you serious?

 

 

The Farr 25 is certainly a great boat. It inst really a Grand Prix boat as much as its a good performing boat at many points of sail, rather than being very good at one thing at the expense of another. It didn't take off for a number of reasons; conceptually it lacked transportability features that buyers in that size range want, it isn't priced aggressively enough, and not enough people are knowledgeable about the builder. We felt like even with those truths that we could sell them in the US if we could get one in the US to show off. We haven't been able to achieve that yet, but I'm confident that if people could see the boat, that they would be impressed. I know I am.

 

The Farr 280 is intended to make Grand Prix racing features a bit more affordable for the rest of us. The idea is to place a boat in the 25-30ft gap that gives you the image of a TP52, without the cost of a TP52. We think people like to look at those boats and dream. We want them to have the GP features, and in a real performance boat, so that they go fast and have fun. GP features can and do make sailing fun, and forward looking. We don't think anyone wants to just keep doing the same thing. If they do, then they have no reason to move on from their current boat. We are trying to make a reason to change. We just need to do it at the right cost and size to make it achievable for enough people. Those are the i's and t's were trying to get just right now. A tad more patience required....

 

Is the GP26 rule dead in the water ? seems like you've gone to a far bit of trouble to avoid it 

 

or is it that they (specs) are too slow 

 

is this a fixed keelboat, ie not a ramp launcher lke a true portable Sportsboat ? 

 

The GP26's that are in the USA aren't setting the world on fire. I know they are having problems beating the Melges 24 boat for boat.

 

I think it is better to stay away from the rule.

 

 

yes, he's serious.



#21 Patrick Shaughnessy

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 07:59 PM

My reference of "Grand Prix" and "GP" wasn't made with any regard to the GP rule or the GP26. Mine was only a reference to Grand Prix as a top end style of sail boat racing. The Farr 280 is in no way a GP26. 

 

Sorry for the confusion...



#22 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 08:08 PM

I suspect the term "Grand Prix" should be used with care

 

especially when a bunch of Mumm 30s or aussie sportsboats start sailing rings around them ?

 

maybe it refers to the 'big names' in such a fleet with paid hands  ?



#23 fireball

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 09:20 PM


 


The Farr 25 is certainly a great boat. It inst really a Grand Prix boat as much as its a good performing boat at many points of sail, rather than being very good at one thing at the expense of another. It didn't take off for a number of reasons; conceptually it lacked transportability features that buyers in that size range want, it isn't priced aggressively enough, and not enough people are knowledgeable about the builder. We felt like even with those truths that we could sell them in the US if we could get one in the US to show off. We haven't been able to achieve that yet, but I'm confident that if people could see the boat, that they would be impressed. I know I am.
 
The Farr 280 is intended to make Grand Prix racing features a bit more affordable for the rest of us. The idea is to place a boat in the 25-30ft gap that gives you the image of a TP52, without the cost of a TP52. We think people like to look at those boats and dream. We want them to have the GP features, and in a real performance boat, so that they go fast and have fun. GP features can and do make sailing fun, and forward looking. We don't think anyone wants to just keep doing the same thing. If they do, then they have no reason to move on from their current boat. We are trying to make a reason to change. We just need to do it at the right cost and size to make it achievable for enough people. Those are the i's and t's were trying to get just right now. A tad more patience required....

 
Is the GP26 rule dead in the water ? seems like you've gone to a far bit of trouble to avoid it 
 
or is it that they (specs) are too slow 
 
is this a fixed keelboat, ie not a ramp launcher lke a true portable Sportsboat ? 
 
The GP26's that are in the USA aren't setting the world on fire. I know they are having problems beating the Melges 24 boat for boat.
 
I think it is better to stay away from the rule.
 
I've been trying to tell the Gp26 Svengalis that for years on here, but they are up to their ears in kool-aid
 
We have a GP in Sydney, bespoke hi tech build, may even be quicker than the US design
 
our motley bunch of older thompsons and the like ( mixed design SBing down here) give it curry
 
SBs are lighter, equiv. RM with bigger sails basically, and easier to sail, no Gut-Cutters  
 
they will crap on any Farr 25 and the like too.
 
thing is these are the legacy 'road rules compliant' boats at apx 8'2" wide maxxing at 26'LOA,
in other areas in AUS the 12' wide boats can be another 5 minutes up the track at least doing M32 speeds.
 
I think the gp26 has its niche as the SBs are inshore or near-shore racers, and the GP types could get to Cat3 for some new millenium JOG type racing, however NO_ONE goes ocean-racing in little boats any longer
The golden era of 1/4 tonners and long haired blokes offshore in 26 footers was a 70s thang    

26 feet is a bad size for Sydney because most of the yacht clubs have a mininimun length requirement of 8.5m for their offshore races. So the GP26 is stuck doing harbour racing.

It sounds like the Farr 280 just makes the cutoff, so it would be able to race offshore.

#24 Cunt Punt

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:48 PM

Some questions for you, Patrick:

 

Will the "new grand prix one design" Farr 280 be an utter dog like the "new grand prix one design" Farr 400?

 

Will it sell enough boats to even become a one design?

 

Will it be 2 feet shorter than the design name implies, like the 400.... nay... 380 is?

 

Will it sacrifice speed for ease of transport like the 400 does?

 

Will it have that hideously slow scow bow which has failed so horribly?

 

Will you ever learn proper grammar? 

 

These are the questions which keep me up at night.

 

CP



#25 mustang__1

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 11:19 PM

Some questions for you, Patrick:

 

Will the "new grand prix one design" Farr 280 be an utter dog like the "new grand prix one design" Farr 400?

 

Will it sell enough boats to even become a one design?

 

Will it be 2 feet shorter than the design name implies, like the 400.... nay... 380 is?

 

Will it sacrifice speed for ease of transport like the 400 does?

 

Will it have that hideously slow scow bow which has failed so horribly?

 

Will you ever learn proper grammar? 

 

These are the questions which keep me up at night.

 

CP

i figured that was your new roommate keeping you "up" at night. 



#26 Patrick Shaughnessy

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 01:10 PM

Some questions for you, Patrick:

 

Will the "new grand prix one design" Farr 280 be an utter dog like the "new grand prix one design" Farr 400?

PS- I wouldn't have categorized the Farr 400 as an utter dog, but in any case the Farr 280 is pitched at relatively higher performance for its size.

 

Will it sell enough boats to even become a one design?

PS- Obviously that is the desire. Initial feedback suggests that this is an achievable goal.

 

Will it be 2 feet shorter than the design name implies, like the 400.... nay... 380 is?

PS- It will be slightly longer than its name. That was an error in the marketing approach of the Farr 400.

 

Will it sacrifice speed for ease of transport like the 400 does?

PS- No. I believe that was an error in the conceptual approach of the Farr 400. If the Farr 400 had achieved greater traction, it's owners would have benefited from its trans-portability features. In the beginning of a class' development a boat can't be penalized for transport, particularly when it needs to sail in handicap racing fleets to generate sales. In any case the Farr 280 does not sacrifice performance for transport ease.

 

Will it have that hideously slow scow bow which has failed so horribly?

PS- The relatively full bow shapes are specifically for boats targeted at high speed reaching and running. The Farr 280 is more targeted at all around performance.

 

Will you ever learn proper grammar?

PS- Id be reel grateful. for youre lessons, 

 

These are the questions which keep me up at night.

PS- Sleep well.

 

CP



#27 fireball

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 01:23 PM





Some questions for you, Patrick:
 
Will the "new grand prix one design" Farr 280 be an utter dog like the "new grand prix one design" Farr 400?
PS- I wouldn't have categorized the Farr 400 as an utter dog, but in any case the Farr 280 is pitched at relatively higher performance for its size.
 
Will it sell enough boats to even become a one design?
PS- Obviously that is the desire. Initial feedback suggests that this is an achievable goal.
 
Will it be 2 feet shorter than the design name implies, like the 400.... nay... 380 is?
PS- It will be slightly longer than its name. That was an error in the marketing approach of the Farr 400.
 
Will it sacrifice speed for ease of transport like the 400 does?
PS- No. I believe that was an error in the conceptual approach of the Farr 400. If the Farr 400 had achieved greater traction, it's owners would have benefited from its trans-portability features. In the beginning of a class' development a boat can't be penalized for transport, particularly when it needs to sail in handicap racing fleets to generate sales. In any case the Farr 280 does not sacrifice performance for transport ease.
 
Will it have that hideously slow scow bow which has failed so horribly?
PS- The relatively full bow shapes are specifically for boats targeted at high speed reaching and running. The Farr 280 is more targeted at all around performance.
 
Will you ever learn proper grammar?
PS- Id be reel grateful. for youre lessons, 
 
These are the questions which keep me up at night.
PS- Sleep well.
 
CP


Sounds a bit like a smaller version of the Melges 32. Is that a reasonable description?

#28 Patrick Shaughnessy

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 02:46 PM

We prefer to think of it as the Mumm/Farr 30 you would design today. I think it would be fair to say that this is a boat held in very high regard. If we could start from a clean sheet of paper and make something that well balanced and with that kind of performance/cost balance we could have something special. When we talk to the owners of those boats we hear a lot about what they would like to have to make them more modern. We are trying to deliver on that.



#29 Christian

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 03:28 PM

I hope the boat delivers in that regard - that is a segment which is NOT currently well covered and I think it has a lot of potential

We prefer to think of it as the Mumm/Farr 30 you would design today. I think it would be fair to say that this is a boat held in very high regard. If we could start from a clean sheet of paper and make something that well balanced and with that kind of performance/cost balance we could have something special. When we talk to the owners of those boats we hear a lot about what they would like to have to make them more modern. We are trying to deliver on that.



#30 Patrick Shaughnessy

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 03:33 PM

We think so too. Obviously the "correct" way to cover it is subjective, but we think we have a concept that targets it well.



#31 Tyler Durden

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 07:57 PM

So is this boat a sibling in shape to the B-One and Farr 400 or is it going to be fast?



#32 Christian

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:54 PM

If you want to discuss over a beer I am game (and local).  I do have a sportboat in that size here in Naptown and certainly have some ideas and experience in that regard 

 

We think so too. Obviously the "correct" way to cover it is subjective, but we think we have a concept that targets it well.



#33 Cunt Punt

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 09:12 PM

Some questions for you, Patrick:

 

Will the "new grand prix one design" Farr 280 be an utter dog like the "new grand prix one design" Farr 400?

PS- I wouldn't have categorized the Farr 400 as an utter dog, but in any case the Farr 280 is pitched at relatively higher performance for its size.

CP - Utter dog based on the fact that every boat it goes up against seems to kick its ass both on the water and on every conceivable handicap rule. Higher performance for its size than the Melges 32?
 

Will it sell enough boats to even become a one design?

PS- Obviously that is the desire. Initial feedback suggests that this is an achievable goal.

CP - So it's going to convince people to move away from already well established classes in this size range ?
 

Will you ever learn proper grammar?

PS- Id be reel grateful. for youre lessons, 

CP - Lesson 1: your, you're, you are. There, their, they're. Where, wear, we're, were.

 

These are the questions which keep me up at night.

PS- Sleep well.

CP - Thanks!

 

CP

 

Thanks for having a sense of humor and at least playing ball.

 

Christian... just find the Viper 830 molds and tell farr to build more of those with a big red F on the sail. They'll sell loads of them and you can race OD!



#34 Savage 17

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 12:33 AM

Are you serious?


 


The Farr 25 is certainly a great boat. It inst really a Grand Prix boat as much as its a good performing boat at many points of sail, rather than being very good at one thing at the expense of another. It didn't take off for a number of reasons; conceptually it lacked transportability features that buyers in that size range want, it isn't priced aggressively enough, and not enough people are knowledgeable about the builder. We felt like even with those truths that we could sell them in the US if we could get one in the US to show off. We haven't been able to achieve that yet, but I'm confident that if people could see the boat, that they would be impressed. I know I am.
 
The Farr 280 is intended to make Grand Prix racing features a bit more affordable for the rest of us. The idea is to place a boat in the 25-30ft gap that gives you the image of a TP52, without the cost of a TP52. We think people like to look at those boats and dream. We want them to have the GP features, and in a real performance boat, so that they go fast and have fun. GP features can and do make sailing fun, and forward looking. We don't think anyone wants to just keep doing the same thing. If they do, then they have no reason to move on from their current boat. We are trying to make a reason to change. We just need to do it at the right cost and size to make it achievable for enough people. Those are the i's and t's were trying to get just right now. A tad more patience required....

 
Is the GP26 rule dead in the water ? seems like you've gone to a far bit of trouble to avoid it 
 
or is it that they (specs) are too slow 
 
is this a fixed keelboat, ie not a ramp launcher lke a true portable Sportsboat ? 
 

The GP26's that are in the USA aren't setting the world on fire. I know they are having problems beating the Melges 24 boat for boat.
 
I think it is better to stay away from the rule.

Christian.... 100% serious!

#35 Christian

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 03:33 AM

That cannot be 100% fault of the boat - probably some serious software issues.  While the GP26 specs don't set the world on fire it should easily beat a M24 boat for boat.

Are you serious?

 


 


The Farr 25 is certainly a great boat. It inst really a Grand Prix boat as much as its a good performing boat at many points of sail, rather than being very good at one thing at the expense of another. It didn't take off for a number of reasons; conceptually it lacked transportability features that buyers in that size range want, it isn't priced aggressively enough, and not enough people are knowledgeable about the builder. We felt like even with those truths that we could sell them in the US if we could get one in the US to show off. We haven't been able to achieve that yet, but I'm confident that if people could see the boat, that they would be impressed. I know I am.
 
The Farr 280 is intended to make Grand Prix racing features a bit more affordable for the rest of us. The idea is to place a boat in the 25-30ft gap that gives you the image of a TP52, without the cost of a TP52. We think people like to look at those boats and dream. We want them to have the GP features, and in a real performance boat, so that they go fast and have fun. GP features can and do make sailing fun, and forward looking. We don't think anyone wants to just keep doing the same thing. If they do, then they have no reason to move on from their current boat. We are trying to make a reason to change. We just need to do it at the right cost and size to make it achievable for enough people. Those are the i's and t's were trying to get just right now. A tad more patience required....

 
Is the GP26 rule dead in the water ? seems like you've gone to a far bit of trouble to avoid it 
 
or is it that they (specs) are too slow 
 
is this a fixed keelboat, ie not a ramp launcher lke a true portable Sportsboat ? 
 

The GP26's that are in the USA aren't setting the world on fire. I know they are having problems beating the Melges 24 boat for boat.
 
I think it is better to stay away from the rule.

Christian.... 100% serious!


#36 Christian

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 03:37 AM

 

Some questions for you, Patrick:

 

Will the "new grand prix one design" Farr 280 be an utter dog like the "new grand prix one design" Farr 400?

PS- I wouldn't have categorized the Farr 400 as an utter dog, but in any case the Farr 280 is pitched at relatively higher performance for its size.

CP - Utter dog based on the fact that every boat it goes up against seems to kick its ass both on the water and on every conceivable handicap rule. Higher performance for its size than the Melges 32?
 

Will it sell enough boats to even become a one design?

PS- Obviously that is the desire. Initial feedback suggests that this is an achievable goal.

CP - So it's going to convince people to move away from already well established classes in this size range ?
 

Will you ever learn proper grammar?

PS- Id be reel grateful. for youre lessons, 

CP - Lesson 1: your, you're, you are. There, their, they're. Where, wear, we're, were.

 

These are the questions which keep me up at night.

PS- Sleep well.

CP - Thanks!

 

CP

 

Thanks for having a sense of humor and at least playing ball.

 

Christian... just find the Viper 830 molds and tell farr to build more of those with a big red F on the sail. They'll sell loads of them and you can race OD!

 

Wouldn't be the worst thing to happen.  The V830 molds are toast though.......................I would also want to make some modifications to the molds before pressing "run". The Viper has a lot of good traits - but also a couple of things that could be improved.



#37 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 12:48 PM


That cannot be 100% fault of the boat - probably some serious software issues.  While the GP26 specs don't set the world on fire it should easily beat a M24 boat for boat.

unsupportable on paper, all power and weight ratio advantages go to the Sportsboat, wetTed surface advantages go to the Sportsboat
no faster feature on the Keelboat other than LOA.

On the water Sportsboat. Years of data

#38 frayedsheet

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:07 PM

One thing guys like frayed could do if they're interested in marketing anything in the US is to use feet and pounds.  You got the LOA and $US easily enough, how about the rest?

 

Even if it's not a real boat . . .

 

No, sadly not a real boat, but relatively achievable numbers for a boat that would certainly be a lot of fun with a lot of appeal. With not a single F280 spec quoted I couldnt help but throw those numbers in to try stir some more specific discussion. 

Sorry, but if you're going to be so recalcitrant (I feel quite sure you are capable) as to plead ignorance to an obviously more efficient  system of measure, that's your problem and yours only. 



#39 BobJ

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 03:21 PM

I agree with you about metric being more efficient, but you must have failed Marketing 101.



#40 nroose

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 09:05 AM

The idea is to place a boat in the 25-30ft gap that gives you the image of a TP52, without the cost of a TP52.

So... a 28 footer with a grinder in the middle of the cockpit? :D

#41 SA Lurker

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 03:44 PM

The idea is to place a boat in the 25-30ft gap that gives you the image of a TP52, without the cost of a TP52.

 

Wasn't that the idea behind the ORC GP Classes?



#42 Savage 17

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 04:23 PM

The idea is to place a boat in the 25-30ft gap that gives you the image of a TP52, without the cost of a TP52.

 

Wasn't that the idea behind the ORC GP Classes?

 I guess the Idea failed because the GP26 is being beat boat for boat by a Sportboat designed in 1993! Doesn't sound TP52ish to me....



#43 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 04:35 PM

Thanks for answering the questions, Pat.  Keep us posted and if you do get a 25 in for some fun, give me a shout.



#44 teleboxAUT118

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 06:12 PM

 

Well, I don't know what problem you have with the Farr 25... the boat is a great sportboat, well able to beat the Melges24 and the GP26. With some modifications this boat could become a serious Mini-TP. I guess that the boat just missed to plane into high numbers due to no marketing and the fact that no one really knows about the boat...

I had the luck to sail a few times with the boat. The concept is great. Easy to sail, delivers great value for the money. Solidly built. A pitty that Sailinganarchy missed until now to shed more light on this sporty delight...
 

]9716736104_c85b5bf8b1.jpg
 

 

9713502719_51e45e240e.jpg
 

9716734342_b8c8b2f392.jpg9713504219_94f77f84ed.jpg9713504627_fc15cf99e4.jpg[/url]

 

 



#45 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 08:10 PM

We ran a few pieces on it but when you can't go sailing on one, it's hard to report!



#46 SA Lurker

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 08:13 PM

 

The idea is to place a boat in the 25-30ft gap that gives you the image of a TP52, without the cost of a TP52.

 

Wasn't that the idea behind the ORC GP Classes?

 I guess the Idea failed because the GP26 is being beat boat for boat by a Sportboat designed in 1993! Doesn't sound TP52ish to me....

 

It may be hasty to write-off the entire GP26 Class based on the initial experiences of a single example.



#47 dogedog

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 11:51 PM

The mumm 30 was, and is a fantastic boat. If you are following and improving on it, I expect you'll sell quite a few.

I can see myself buying a 'new mumm'.

#48 fireball

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 02:50 AM

I think there's a bit of marketing spin going on here. The Mumm/Farr 30 was actually 31 feet long. An updated version of it already exists in the Melges 32, which is lighter and faster than the Mumm 30 at a similar price.

 

There is a bit of a gap in the market between boats like the Melges 24 and the Melges 32 and the Farr 280 seems to be targeted at this gap.

 

This isn't a criticism of the Farr 280 concept. A smaller and cheaper version of the Melges 32 could be a great boat.

 

I guess we'll find out more soon when they release the specs.



#49 windseekeryachts

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 04:22 AM

 

 

The idea is to place a boat in the 25-30ft gap that gives you the image of a TP52, without the cost of a TP52.

 

Wasn't that the idea behind the ORC GP Classes?

 I guess the Idea failed because the GP26 is being beat boat for boat by a Sportboat designed in 1993! Doesn't sound TP52ish to me....

 

It may be hasty to write-off the entire GP26 Class based on the initial experiences of a single example.

Greg, I do not know what kind of satisfaction you are getting from this trash talking GP26 and namely Kevins boat or its design.

 

As many of you know the M24 sails, rig tuning guides, boat trim guides have been developed over the long period they have been around and it is easier to get close to 100% from the boat.  While we are still at learning stages with the GP26.  It is taking a little time to get used to the boat.  Last year we started sailing better towards the end of the season.   

Latest I heard from Kevin is that he is able to beat M24s easily.  I guess you can be able to find the results online or ask him on his tread.

 

M24, F25, GP26 all are great boats.  They are similarly sized,  planing sportboats.  If we are done with trash talking and want to talk about some truth, many will admit  in a race between these 3 boats a lot more depends on the crew than the boat.  For instance the M24 sailed here has 2 of the 4 person crew from pro sailors.  They are competing in the italian circut and take it seriously with running clinics before the start with a coach from Ullman.  So they are harder team to beat when fully crewed.  Harder not impossible, Easier team to beat when owner is driving. 

 

The M24 crew and owner admits GP26 is faster.  We and they have seen this many times when we came side by side.

 

Gp26 concept is indeed much like the TP52.  Wraceboats  GP26 will be in the Annapolis show oct 10-14.  Stop by our boat  to find out more.

And Greg, Maybe you can also drop by so we wind out why all this sourness?



#50 windseekeryachts

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 05:05 AM

 

 

 

The idea is to place a boat in the 25-30ft gap that gives you the image of a TP52, without the cost of a TP52.

 

Wasn't that the idea behind the ORC GP Classes?

 I guess the Idea failed because the GP26 is being beat boat for boat by a Sportboat designed in 1993! Doesn't sound TP52ish to me....

 

It may be hasty to write-off the entire GP26 Class based on the initial experiences of a single example.

Greg, I do not know what kind of satisfaction you are getting from this trash talking GP26 and namely Kevins boat or its design.

 

As many of you know the M24 sails, rig tuning guides, boat trim guides have been developed over the long period they have been around and it is easier to get close to 100% from the boat.  While we are still at learning stages with the GP26.  It is taking a little time to get used to the boat.  Last year we started sailing better towards the end of the season.   

Latest I heard from Kevin is that he is able to beat M24s easily.  I guess you can be able to find the results online or ask him on his tread.

 

M24, F25, GP26 all are great boats.  They are similarly sized,  planing sportboats.  If we are done with trash talking and want to talk about some truth, many will admit  in a race between these 3 boats a lot more depends on the crew than the boat.  For instance the M24 sailed here has 2 of the 4 person crew from pro sailors.  They are competing in the italian circut and take it seriously with running clinics before the start with a coach from Ullman.  So they are harder team to beat when fully crewed.  Harder not impossible, Easier team to beat when owner is driving. 

 

The M24 crew and owner admits GP26 is faster.  We and they have seen this many times when we came side by side.

 

Gp26 concept is indeed much like the TP52.  Wraceboats  GP26 will be in the Annapolis show oct 10-14.  Stop by our boat  to find out more.

And Greg, Maybe you can also drop by so we wind out why all this sourness?

 seriously with running clinics before the start with a....

should read before the start of the season

 

Sorry for hijacking but the boat is this much to sail. Anyone recognise the blue boat:?  Now we have another crew member I guess saying ''...well able to beat the Melges24 and the GP26''.

 http://www.youtube.c...e&v=02AKG3MLLWA



#51 Speng

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:56 AM

I think there's a bit of marketing spin going on here. The Mumm/Farr 30 was actually 31 feet long. An updated version of it already exists in the Melges 32, which is lighter and faster than the Mumm 30 at a similar price.

 

There is a bit of a gap in the market between boats like the Melges 24 and the Melges 32 and the Farr 280 seems to be targeted at this gap.

 

This isn't a criticism of the Farr 280 concept. A smaller and cheaper version of the Melges 32 could be a great boat.

 

I guess we'll find out more soon when they release the specs.

Yeah a 28fter = 30fter

 

Even though many years on from the Farr30 you could easily design a 28 fter that'd sail rings around a 30 footer ***BUT*** a Mumm30 at 31+ ft is long enough to qualify for a lot of distance races that have 30ft or 9.2m length minimums. This was/is the same problem with the GP26, as others pointed out, that you have a "racing yacht" that's too small to do what people want "racing yachts" to do (as well designed as they may be) and at similar size get eaten up by lead-assisted-dinghy sportboats that cost less $$ etc.

 

having said that if the 70K USD price is even reasonable close then OK it's a decent bargain but if it's just for inshore racing then I'd rather have a Viper 640 and go racing with 2 of my mates.



#52 EYESAILOR

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 01:21 PM

I just wish that J Boats had hired someone thoughtful and contemporary like Patrick and Farr to design the J70 and had this kind of discussion.

 

Sorry but I went out on my friends one again last week. It may have been launched in 2012 but the design dates from the 1980s. Its not that I dislike the boat, its just seems such a darn shame that a boat launched in 2012 with all the marketing might of J Boats that sells over 300 hulls couldn't have been a better design, given what designers know now about how to make lightweight easy to handle sport boats.   I'm not a J70 hater at all. I'm glad J boat brought out a boat in this range. I will continue to sail it with a great group of people but I'm just left with this lingering sense of disappointment every time I drive the boat. I'm a chick and I just don't dig it.

 

There was a niche for a one -design at 23' and it got filled with something a little disappointing. If you are aiming at the 28' range, please design a sport boat that  owners love to sail, rather than a boat that people rave about the great racing but don't actually adore the boat itself.  



#53 bloodshot

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 01:26 PM

I just wish that J Boats had hired someone thoughtful and contemporary like Patrick and Farr to design the J70 and had this kind of discussion.

 

Sorry but I went out on my friends one again last week. It may have been launched in 2012 but the design dates from the 1980s. Its not that I dislike the boat, its just seems such a darn shame that a boat launched in 2012 with all the marketing might of J Boats that sells over 300 hulls couldn't have been a better design, given what designers know now about how to make lightweight easy to handle sport boats.   I'm not a J70 hater at all. I'm glad J boat brought out a boat in this range. I will continue to sail it with a great group of people but I'm just left with this lingering sense of disappointment every time I drive the boat. I'm a chick and I just don't dig it.

 

There was a niche for a one -design at 23' and it got filled with something a little disappointing. If you are aiming at the 28' range, please design a sport boat that  owners love to sail, rather than a boat that people rave about the great racing but don't actually adore the boat itself.  

I tend to agree.  look at the tech specs on a J/22 and then look at the j/70.  remarkably similar.



#54 Left Hook

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 05:49 PM

Personally I'm of the opinion that a Farr 30 retrofitted with a prod and big A kites would be an awesome medium distance (250 nm and under) racing platform for a team of hardcore 25-35 year olds



#55 ssi

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 05:53 PM

The Farr 280 is a new Grand Prix level One Design.

 

Translation: we couldn't design a light boat that we could build at a low price so we'll pretend there is a market for a GP OD class and will tell you so in our marketing BS for at least a year, or until Farr 36 becomes the GP OD class that we told you it would, whichever takes less time.

 

Thanks for the info!



#56 Kevin Farrar

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 07:15 PM

Attached File  945979_10151866828166255_1254095139_n.jpg   39.91K   102 downloadsHi Greg and everyone else,

My GP 26 was handed an absurd PHRF rating of 69 ( Melges 24's in this area rate 90). This rating threw us into the class with the Melges 32's and J109's with which we racing against for more than the first half of the season. During this time period the learning curve was painfully slow due to the fact that after the start these larger boats simply walked away from us  because of the waterline difference. Please note that almost all the races in this area are windward - leeward. After a period of begging we were allowed to race in the Melges 24 and Viper class. Once we were in this group the learning and tuning process started as we were sailing with similar size and behaving boats. And yes at first we did have our ass handed to us but when we adjusted something we could see the result either bad or good. We have found what was causing our early case of the slows (improper tuning) and have made the appropriate rig adjustments. The changes we've made to our earliest settings were proved right when we got the gun in our last race against the 24's and Viper's. The local PHRF group has agreed to review our very harsh PHRF number and it is very likely we will be sailing with a number that is at least reasonable next season. 

Kevin

 

Oh, one last thing. The boat is an absolute blast to sail.



#57 Christian

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 07:25 PM

Are you thinking about coming down for the HPR EC Champs in Annapolis?  I am considering racing Wanda and am right now trying to figure out how we would rate in HPR - would be good to have another boat in my size range instead of racing mostly 40 footers.

attachicon.gif945979_10151866828166255_1254095139_n.jpgHi Greg and everyone else,

My GP 26 was handed an absurd PHRF rating of 69 ( Melges 24's in this area rate 90). This rating threw us into the class with the Melges 32's and J109's with which we racing against for more than the first half of the season. During this time period the learning curve was painfully slow due to the fact that after the start these larger boats simply walked away from us  because of the waterline difference. Please note that almost all the races in this area are windward - leeward. After a period of begging we were allowed to race in the Melges 24 and Viper class. Once we were in this group the learning and tuning process started as we were sailing with similar size and behaving boats. And yes at first we did have our ass handed to us but when we adjusted something we could see the result either bad or good. We have found what was causing our early case of the slows (improper tuning) and have made the appropriate rig adjustments. The changes we've made to our earliest settings were proved right when we got the gun in our last race against the 24's and Viper's. The local PHRF group has agreed to review our very harsh PHRF number and it is very likely we will be sailing with a number that is at least reasonable next season. 

Kevin

 

Oh, one last thing. The boat is an absolute blast to sail.



#58 Murphness

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 07:58 PM

There's an ad on the FP margin now but it links to the Farr yacht sales site with no additional info...

 

Any more vapor wear to share other than the "fishing" what is it thread rendering?



#59 Jim Donovan

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 09:03 PM

I think Pat would probably appreciate the GP26 discusion shifted away from this topic ?

Plenty of GP 26 topics available . . .



#60 Ricky Bobby

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 11:29 PM

Basic specs:

 

Hull:

 

LOA: 8.5m (27.96ft)

Sailing weight (incl. basic safeties & motor, excl. crew and sails): 800 - 900kg.

Draft: 2.2m

Keel bulb: 350kg

Beam: 2.5m, with folding flares to achieve 3.5m

J: 3.3m

STL: 5.7m

 

Rig:

 

Elliptical section of max weight 30kg fully rigged

P: 10.75m

E: 3.9m

 

Accomodation:

 

Companionway set just aft of keel. Non fully enclosed case so cabin is clear when keel bolted down.(eg M32)

V berth plus 2 quarter berths.

Basic lightweight/removable galley facilities (excl. from sailing weight).

Plumbed in, relatively easily removable toilet via good placement of valves (excl. from sailing weight).

 

Propulsion:

 

Via 6hp four stroke outboard (25kgs) in central well just aft of keel. Lid closes when motoring for acoustics.

 

Shipping:

 

Fits in 40ft container

 

Pricing:

 

USD70K excl. delivery, sails, outboard and trailer 

 

its about 300kgs too heavy to be compeditive with the current "sports boats" of that size however it sounds like a real cool boat to go up agents the mumm30, farr 25, platu  melges types of boats. good price too concidering some of the current home build sports boats are toping 120-150k

 

be good to see it once its sailing!!



#61 Jim Donovan

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 11:51 PM

Displacement number on the Farr website says displacement is 1625kg (3600 lbs)

That's what you'd expect considering the infused e-glass w/vinylester const, 650kg keel and inboard diesel,



#62 Christian

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 12:58 AM

That may be what you are expecting - I have to say that it needs to loose at least 1000 lbs to be in the GP bucket...............probably more like 1500 lbs

Displacement number on the Farr website says displacement is 1625kg (3600 lbs)

That's what you'd expect considering the infused e-glass w/vinylester const, 650kg keel and inboard diesel,



#63 fireball

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 02:35 AM


 

its about 300kgs too heavy to be compeditive with the current "sports boats" of that size however it sounds like a real cool boat to go up agents the mumm30, farr 25, platu  melges types of boats. good price too concidering some of the current home build sports boats are toping 120-150k

 

be good to see it once its sailing!!

 

It looks more seaworthy than a sportsboat with an inboard diesel and a heavier keel. Like a little Mumm 30 just as they described it.

 

The advantage of this where I live (Sydney) is you can race outside the harbour where the seas can be very bumpy. You can also do the long motor home without any problems if the wind dies.



#64 Ricky Bobby

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 04:48 AM


 

its about 300kgs too heavy to be compeditive with the current "sports boats" of that size however it sounds like a real cool boat to go up agents the mumm30, farr 25, platu  melges types of boats. good price too concidering some of the current home build sports boats are toping 120-150k

 

be good to see it once its sailing!!

 

It looks more seaworthy than a sportsboat with an inboard diesel and a heavier keel. Like a little Mumm 30 just as they described it.

 

The advantage of this where I live (Sydney) is you can race outside the harbour where the seas can be very bumpy. You can also do the long motor home without any problems if the wind dies.

deffaintly, would be a great boat to sail in a keel boat fleet and short offshore races, probably what its designed to do but if it lined up next to the stelth 8.5 or sports 8 types of boats (which cant do anything over cat 5 days races) it wouldnt be so great.



#65 rantifarian

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 04:50 AM


 

its about 300kgs too heavy to be compeditive with the current "sports boats" of that size however it sounds like a real cool boat to go up agents the mumm30, farr 25, platu  melges types of boats. good price too concidering some of the current home build sports boats are toping 120-150k

 

be good to see it once its sailing!!

 

It looks more seaworthy than a sportsboat with an inboard diesel and a heavier keel. Like a little Mumm 30 just as they described it.

 

The advantage of this where I live (Sydney) is you can race outside the harbour where the seas can be very bumpy. You can also do the long motor home without any problems if the wind dies.

Unless that is a sailing weight, crew included, it sounds a few hundred kg heavy. The Mummfarr itself is only a touch over 2000kg, and that is a lot more boat, nearly 20 years old too.



#66 fireball

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 05:13 AM

 


 

its about 300kgs too heavy to be compeditive with the current "sports boats" of that size however it sounds like a real cool boat to go up agents the mumm30, farr 25, platu  melges types of boats. good price too concidering some of the current home build sports boats are toping 120-150k

 

be good to see it once its sailing!!

 

It looks more seaworthy than a sportsboat with an inboard diesel and a heavier keel. Like a little Mumm 30 just as they described it.

 

The advantage of this where I live (Sydney) is you can race outside the harbour where the seas can be very bumpy. You can also do the long motor home without any problems if the wind dies.

Unless that is a sailing weight, crew included, it sounds a few hundred kg heavy. The Mummfarr itself is only a touch over 2000kg, and that is a lot more boat, nearly 20 years old too.

 

The sailing weight is just like a scaled down Mumm/Farr 30 (8.72m versus 9.43m, 1625kg versus 2063kg). But the ballast/displacement ratio is lower (40% versus 46%).

 

It's certainly not a sportsboat.



#67 dogedog

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 10:11 AM

Any chance Farr can make a 280 "+" so it can stretch to be 30 ft? If its taking the M30 concept and enhancing it why not make it the same length as the Mumm?

Also. Can you be more specific Bout the Trailering configuration. The website just says the kill can be removed. There's an expensive way and an inexpensive way and I'm hoping they chose the inexpensive method (raising the keel through the boat like a J70 or M32.

Keel not kill. DAmn Siri.

#68 rantifarian

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 11:07 AM

28ft is cheaper, and If this thing is supposed to be trailer able, they might be working backwards from a maximum width and desired hull shape to end with a width. Is the 9.4' a significant trailering measure in the USA?

The description on the website of fixed keel, easily removable, certainly doesn't sound like it lifts. Rudder under hull makes it even less look likely.

#69 SCANAS

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 12:03 PM



I think there's a bit of marketing spin going on here. The Mumm/Farr 30 was actually 31 feet long. An updated version of it already exists in the Melges 32, which is lighter and faster than the Mumm 30 at a similar price.
 
There is a bit of a gap in the market between boats like the Melges 24 and the Melges 32 and the Farr 280 seems to be targeted at this gap.
 
This isn't a criticism of the Farr 280 concept. A smaller and cheaper version of the Melges 32 could be a great boat.
 
I guess we'll find out more soon when they release the specs.

Yeah a 28fter = 30fter
 
Even though many years on from the Farr30 you could easily design a 28 fter that'd sail rings around a 30 footer ***BUT*** a Mumm30 at 31+ ft is long enough to qualify for a lot of distance races that have 30ft or 9.2m length minimums. This was/is the same problem with the GP26, as others pointed out, that you have a "racing yacht" that's too small to do what people want "racing yachts" to do (as well designed as they may be) and at similar size get eaten up by lead-assisted-dinghy sportboats that cost less $$ etc.
 
having said that if the 70K USD price is even reasonable close then OK it's a decent bargain but if it's just for inshore racing then I'd rather have a Viper 640 and go racing with 2 of my mates.
Part of the Mumm 30s popularity was that you could race anything from beer cans to worlds to cat 1 like Sydney to Hobart in the same boat and you always had competition. Ability to put a Cat 1 racing yacht on a trailer is also pretty cool!

#70 Swimsailor

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 12:59 AM

Well, there's now an ad on the front page.  Price depending, looks like a winner to me.  I live inland and would love to see boats like this take off on some the lakes here in the west.  http://www.farryacht...-280-one-design

 

I think when the word "grand prix" is thrown around, it conjures up a lot of images.  I think Rolex watches, expensive escorts and some very drunk friends.  But I digress...

 

I think this boat is more modern grand prix.  GP26's to me look outdated.  The 280 has got a flush deck, twin backstays and a flathead rig.  So maybe Citizen watches and cheap escorts but keep the really drunk friends.



#71 bloodshot

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 01:31 PM

kinda looks like what everyone hoped the Soto 30 was going to be. 



#72 Turd Sandwich

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 02:17 PM

Is it just me or does this thing need to loose some weight.

almost 3600# at 28' hell a henderson 30 is only 3850

Why no outboard in a trunk or transom hung? vs an inboard heavy diesel it says inshore design what am i missing?

Ballast ratio seems light for only 5-6 crew should be closer to 50% or they are lying about total displacement

Why no lifting keel

Rudder should be in a Vara type of deal as well as being married to the travel lift will kill it

Bow sprit is kinda short for inside gybes IMHO and the kites are borderline too small at 990s.f.. Thats about the size of one on a T750 that weighs 1500# @ 25'

 

Good looking boat just not very user friendly for an inshore boat. With the inboard, fixed keel and the xtra weight looks like more of an offshore type



#73 Schnick

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 06:21 PM

I think the Farr 400 suffered from being in fact a full 4' shorter than the Farr 40 OD - people couldn't get their heads around the idea that these two "40 foot" Farrs were roughly the same speed despite the go fast features of the newer boat.

 

This 280, while at least they have named it properly, is still unfortunately going to be judged against the Mumm/Farr 30, which again is actually 32 feet long.  It seems highly unlikely that it will be as fast upwind as the Mumm, and maybe no faster downhilll until the wind is up and it can get properly lit.  I wonder how that will be perceived by the market.

 

That said I do find a boat with an inboard and all the stuff for a short offshore jaunt pretty appealing at this size, I just don't see the 'Grand Prix' thing taking hold.



#74 fireball

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 03:27 AM

IMHO the price is going to be a big factor in the success of the Farr 280. The only possible benefit of being 28 foot long is cost.

 

The Farr 400 suffered a lot against the McConaghy 38 here in Australia because there was a big difference in price.

 

The Farr 280 looks likes a nice little boat that you could race in rough conditions and be confident about safety, but it needs to be significantly cheaper than the old Mumm/Farr 30 or the Melges 32.



#75 nroose

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 05:38 AM

kinda looks like what everyone hoped the Soto 30 was going to be.

What happened to that thing?

#76 Swimsailor

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 04:00 PM

IMHO the price is going to be a big factor in the success of the Farr 280. The only possible benefit of being 28 foot long is cost.

 

The Farr 400 suffered a lot against the McConaghy 38 here in Australia because there was a big difference in price.

 

The Farr 280 looks likes a nice little boat that you could race in rough conditions and be confident about safety, but it needs to be significantly cheaper than the old Mumm/Farr 30 or the Melges 32.

+1  This thing lives or dies by its price.



#77 Savage 17

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 05:13 PM

IMHO the price is going to be a big factor in the success of the Farr 280. The only possible benefit of being 28 foot long is cost.

 

The Farr 400 suffered a lot against the McConaghy 38 here in Australia because there was a big difference in price.

 

The Farr 280 looks likes a nice little boat that you could race in rough conditions and be confident about safety, but it needs to be significantly cheaper than the old Mumm/Farr 30 or the Melges 32.

Used or new ?

 

I believe a new Mumm/Farr 30 was $110k.... a Melges 32 all done up is around $250k



#78 bloodshot

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 05:20 PM

the Soto 30 was sub-$100K, so if its near that ballpark, I think it would do well.



#79 Murphness

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 06:01 PM

Not that they're similar in any way apart from relative size, but with the j88 being 125k (?) I doubt this thing will be sub 100 and certainly wouldn't be all up for sub 100. There aren't many new race boats that cost less than 100 apart from the ssc27 and maybe one of those far east deals (and I'm not even sure about that).

Maybe Patrick will chime in with some insight?

You'd think Farr would want to get back in the OD game a bit and maybe that will drive them to keep price points low and take a smaller piece of the pie. At least in the beginning stages anyways...

#80 TBone

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 11:41 PM

the Soto 30 was sub-$100K, so if its near that ballpark, I think it would do well.


And how many of those Soto 30s sold for sub-$100K?

#81 bloodshot

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 12:32 AM

the Soto 30 was sub-$100K, so if its near that ballpark, I think it would do well.


And how many of those Soto 30s sold for sub-$100K?

not many. hence that I think this could be what everyone hoped the Soto 30 was going to be. 



#82 Norm

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 01:14 AM

looks like runners.... they help the mast to stay up don't they ?

 

would they only be used downhill or uphill/downhill

 

no runners means one more thing to do, so why would do they design it that way



#83 bloodshot

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 12:10 PM

looks like runners.... they help the mast to stay up don't they ?

 

would they only be used downhill or uphill/downhill

 

no runners means one more thing to do, so why would do they design it that way

the squaretop main appears to be "too square' for a backstay flicker

 

watch here between 1:00 and 1:20 for the guy trimming the runners: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=yD9wAOg3f8o

 

similar sized boat with similar layout.  



#84 foster

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 08:58 PM

looks like runners.... they help the mast to stay up don't they ?

 

would they only be used downhill or uphill/downhill

 

no runners means one more thing to do, so why would do they design it that way

the squaretop main appears to be "too square' for a backstay flicker

 

watch here between 1:00 and 1:20 for the guy trimming the runners: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=yD9wAOg3f8o

 

similar sized boat with similar layout.  

 

With Trailer/Sails/other crap, it's most likely going to be closer to 100k when it's all said and done.  I'm not sure how many racers out there are going to shell out that type of money for a 1 dimensional - race only use boat in this size range.  

 

When you add runners to anything, you take the less experienced sailor completely out of the equation and you also remove any chance of this being sailed for pleasure or short / overnight cruising - severely limiting the market.  

 

This is the area J Boats completely 'get it'.  The J22/24 were all 'dual purpose' boats that followed the 80/20 rule -- 80% Race/20% Pleasure sail/cruise.  The new J88 follows the same path, probably closer to 70/30.



#85 Ryley

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:24 PM

Not that they're similar in any way apart from relative size, but with the j88 being 125k (?) I doubt this thing will be sub 100 and certainly wouldn't be all up for sub 100. There aren't many new race boats that cost less than 100 apart from the ssc27 and maybe one of those far east deals (and I'm not even sure about that).

Maybe Patrick will chime in with some insight?

You'd think Farr would want to get back in the OD game a bit and maybe that will drive them to keep price points low and take a smaller piece of the pie. At least in the beginning stages anyways...

From the Annapolis boat show:

Standard Package: $115,900

Offshore stanchions: $2180

Cradle: $1750

Shipping FOB Dubai: not included

Commissioning: not included

Sails: not included

Electronics: not included.

 

So that's $120k before electronics or sails or a proper trailer. Maybe that's a good price for a 28 foot brand new boat with no interior - I sure as hell wouldn't know.



#86 Murphness

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 07:19 PM

It's really tough to see where a boat like that fits in at that price range at the moment. There are lots of options, and most are cheaper. 

 

Whats worth more? Selling the first fleet, say 20 boats, at a loss or break even and actually having a shot at the class taking off and then bump price up? Or selling 5 boats at a profit and maybe making your money back at the expense of another failed shot? 

 

Get the boats down to the 70k range, take a hit for a year or two, and I think you might just have success. At 120+ I just don't see it happening...

 

And Ryley, I forgot to mention the GP in my sub hundo comment. I heard a rumor  :ph34r:



#87 coolerboy

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 03:55 AM

Patrick, not a hater...just a thought for you and all builders or whatever out there. Why try to promote so many different kinds of boats that are similar in length/stature and not focus on dropping some cash on just one of the boats? I do not claim to know anything about boat promotion or anything of the sort. I have sailed the same boat for years with no intention of changing. I think the under 30 or so thought, buoy racer/ocean goer that is modern and high performance at the right price is an idea that tons of people have but the lost thought is dropping cash on a fleet and getting it going. Hard to spread that money in so many different areas (boats).

 

This is probably a poor example as these boats are not really comparable performance wise and one is older than the other but here goes nothing........Two boats I saw this past weekend that would seem to have similar owner groups are the Antrim 27 and the J70.  The Antrim 27 seems to be a great boat. Much faster than a Melges, I would imagine kills GP26 in a blow, it has a large sail area, deep keel/rudder so able to perform in big breeze as a solid bay design should.....but for some reason it has never fully caught on here as a OD. (Im not sure if that was their thought either.) But, more recently the J70 seems to be starting a OD fleet and they are promoted very well. I would never consider owning it as it is slow for a "newer boat" and not that great of a boat....just imo. BUT they promote it so people are more likely to buy it. Point is, an inferior boat sells because they market it in an area, drop initial seed money into the class, growth, cheaper production, maybe give a few to some very good sailors in one area to promote a new fleet, sell for 70k or less (and def  no inboard....that's insulting). Get some mid-week sailing sessions going for new owners. Make it fun for them. If it performs, you promote it, spend money, it will sell.

 

Last thought...you already have to compete against so many other builders who are trying to build similar boats as you....no need to also be competing against your own self. I am interested in all thoughts from you. Only posting as positive criticism. Happy to see sailing grow and many new fleets develop. One design, big fleets is a lot of fun.



#88 coolerboy

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 04:00 AM

and 3600lbs if I read correctly....nope, never going to work. Wont sell if we are thinking of same type of boat. Get rid of inboard, sell outboard with boat, get to atleast under 2500 lbs. I don't think the boat has a shot if weighs 3600lbs.



#89 dogedog

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:35 AM

Cooler boy + 1 on keeping it positive. Somehow this has remained troll free...

Looking forward to seeing how this boat does. I don't think it will have anything to worry about versus at J88 if I think if a Mumm vs J29.

#90 dogedog

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:37 AM

Patrick, any updates on number of boats sold so far? How was it received at the show? Honestly

#91 dogedog

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:37 AM

Patrick, any updates on number of boats sold so far? How was it received at the show? Honestly

#92 Ryley

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:02 PM

I can tell you from first-hand experience that the Antrim 27 will not beat a GP26 in a blow, or probably in any other conditions either. The Antrims I've raced against have had a hard time staying ahead of my Elliott, upwind or down. In one race on a close reach, we were waterlined, but still won easily on time. Boat for Boat the GP is faster.

This is probably a poor example as these boats are not really comparable performance wise and one is older than the other but here goes nothing........Two boats I saw this past weekend that would seem to have similar owner groups are the Antrim 27 and the J70.  The Antrim 27 seems to be a great boat. Much faster than a Melges, I would imagine kills GP26 in a blow, it has a large sail area, deep keel/rudder so able to perform in big breeze as a solid bay design should.....but for some reason it has never fully caught on here as a OD. 



#93 coolerboy

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 07:04 PM

Maybe....doubt it on the Bay. I am not an expert on either boat. I have seen a GP26 here that seems overpowered and the Antrim isn't. With that said, it could be the people sailing them or just the fact that the Bay is a unique place to sail. I grew up in Boston and there is no real breeze. GP 26 probably would do better there.  Again....I dont know a ton about the GP 26 just observations watching them sail around here. Not trying to make a comparison really just trying to create some discussion for Patrick as I hope they make a great 28 ft buoy offshore racer that is sailed by the masses. Many boats of this nature have been whallopped on the SF Bay.



#94 SA Lurker

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:11 PM

Maybe....doubt it on the Bay. I am not an expert on either boat. I have seen a GP26 here that seems overpowered and the Antrim isn't. With that said, it could be the people sailing them or just the fact that the Bay is a unique place to sail. I grew up in Boston and there is no real breeze. GP 26 probably would do better there.  Again....I dont know a ton about the GP 26 just observations watching them sail around here.

 

Them? What "them"?



#95 Christian

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 05:41 AM

I was thinking the same thing - I think there are 3 GP26's in the US and 2 of them are on the east coast

Maybe....doubt it on the Bay. I am not an expert on either boat. I have seen a GP26 here that seems overpowered and the Antrim isn't. With that said, it could be the people sailing them or just the fact that the Bay is a unique place to sail. I grew up in Boston and there is no real breeze. GP 26 probably would do better there.  Again....I dont know a ton about the GP 26 just observations watching them sail around here.

 

Them? What "them"?



#96 Ryley

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:59 PM

Maybe....doubt it on the Bay. I am not an expert on either boat. I have seen a GP26 here that seems overpowered and the Antrim isn't. With that said, it could be the people sailing them or just the fact that the Bay is a unique place to sail. I grew up in Boston and there is no real breeze. GP 26 probably would do better there.  Again....I dont know a ton about the GP 26 just observations watching them sail around here.

 

Them? What "them"?

I think he means "them" the Antrim and GP. The GP he's seen is Salt Peanuts probably, and it has been around for a number of years. It was actually the boat that got KF interested in building one. Of course, being a box rule, Salt Peanuts and Pithy both fit in the box but embrace different design philosophies. But anyway, plenty of places to compare those two boats besides a thread about the Farr 280. Back to your regularly schedule speculation.



#97 marcelsailor

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 09:58 PM

Personally I'm of the opinion that a Farr 30 retrofitted with a prod and big A kites would be an awesome medium distance (250 nm and under) racing platform for a team of hardcore 25-35 year olds

Sailing Arabia The Tour? (minus the prod and a kite) (www.sailingarabiathetour.com)



#98 Savage 17

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:18 PM

I see one is registered for Charleston Race Week. I haven't seen any actual photos of the boat being built or anything.... Farr website just has renderings... is the boat actually going to show?

 

http://www.yachtscor...eet.cfm?eID=968

 

It would be nice to see the Anarchy 30 aka (C&C), GP 26, Farr 280, Viper 830, Farr 30, Melges 32 all in the same class....



#99 Savage 17

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 09:06 PM

I see one is registered for Charleston Race Week. I haven't seen any actual photos of the boat being built or anything.... Farr website just has renderings... is the boat actually going to show?

 

http://www.yachtscor...eet.cfm?eID=968

 

It would be nice to see the Anarchy 30 aka (C&C), GP 26, Farr 280, Viper 830, Farr 30, Melges 32 all in the same class....

 

Maybe an HPR regatta?



#100 Heriberto

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 02:40 AM

List price of $114K seems very reasonable for everything they offer in the boat, especially if you compare to a Melges 32. But I just don't quite get the diesel in a boat this size. Why not lose the diesel, and the weight, and the cost, and just use an outboard? You can't even call it old skool, because many boats this size have done without auxilary power forever. Propulsion options are evolving all the time. So I understand them wanting to make an updated Mumm30 (surprised they went with the Farr400 size over that size in the first place), but would have figured a Farr310 might have been more attractive at the same displacement and features. And the diesel.... Especially since they are billing this as a OD regatta boat.

 

Beyond that, it looks kind of bulbous and bloated, with that fat, tall, reverse stem that never did anything for me. Almost looks like a baby Beneteau (ouch!). I like the wide open cockpit, but the vestigial doghouse is sad, and the super far forward round hatch looks W.E.T. (and non-functional except for sail dousing). Being so far forward, you can't leave it open, so you have to send someone up to open it for the douse? The diesel would normally lead you to believe it is an offshore capable or offshore geared boat, but then the lack of interior volume kind of pulls that rug out, and the super forward hatch doesn't look very offshore friendly. And worse yet, it has "hiking lines"? So it isn't even Cat 3 capable without major surgery? Dayum! That's a major feature of the Mumm30 that just got discarded.

 

The bowsprit looks not retractable. I hope they have some method to stow it, because otherwise you are paying dockage for that sucker, and/or makes it a bitch to raft at a regatta. And the two rear winchs are only for the double backstay, which is only for a fathead main? This is something else I don't get. Running backstays and winches sucked in the bad old IOR days and they aren't any better now. Who gets that fun job? Is a fathead really worth having double running backs, two winches, and somebody on the ass end to tack them? No thanks.

 

I don't know, can somebody explain the design feature combination? It's like it wants to be an OD regatta boat, but it's heavy (sorry, 3650lbs is heavy for a 28-footer), has a diesel, and needs 5-6 crew. On close looks this boat is kind of a pushme-pullyou, which really sucks, because the 30 and under market actually needs a new option, with the Melges 32 imploding and the only alternative the (ugh) J70, or "boats which shall not be named".






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