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What's the goss on the Farr 280?


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#201 Left Hook

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 10:45 PM

Bermuda!? Masochists R Us on that trip...

 

Clean can we get some video of the GrunDOOM pweeze? A tour would be awesome. That thing is sex on wheels. 



#202 Frank

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 11:48 PM

Now that there are pictures of the Farr 280 sailing I think I finally understand the concept.

It's an American version of the larger sportsboats like the Thompson 8 or the Stealth 8.5. Of course, it would be twice the weight of the Stealth and it's got a 20hp diesel instead of a small outboard, but maybe that's what the market likes.

After all, we're talking about a country where the J70 is wildly popular.

But I don't see it as a modern version of a Mumm/Farr 30 which is much more offshore capable.

Its actually nearly 3.5 times heavier than the Stealth 8.5

Pleasantly surprised about that 92sqm kite on the Farr, guess it needs the horse power at that weight



#203 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 01:14 AM

Bermuda!? Masochists R Us on that trip...

 

Clean can we get some video of the GrunDOOM pweeze? A tour would be awesome. That thing is sex on wheels. 

Farr was charging today in 17 knots, too far out my hotel window to shoot but good stuff.   

 

Will do my best for Grundoom; very little time this week and off to France on Monday!



#204 hendrixharlow

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 05:25 AM

Bermuda!? Masochists R Us on that trip...

 

Clean can we get some video of the GrunDOOM pweeze? A tour would be awesome. That thing is sex on wheels. 

 

I had an up close tour with that thing today--almost T-Boned it pretty hard trying to get out of my slip w/ my 20 y/o Viper!



#205 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 10:57 AM

Bermuda!? Masochists R Us on that trip...

 

Clean can we get some video of the GrunDOOM pweeze? A tour would be awesome. That thing is sex on wheels. 

 

I had an up close tour with that thing today--almost T-Boned it pretty hard trying to get out of my slip w/ my 20 y/o Viper!

"Don't scratch my anchor"



#206 Murphness

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 12:21 PM

Bermuda!? Masochists R Us on that trip...

 

Clean can we get some video of the GrunDOOM pweeze? A tour would be awesome. That thing is sex on wheels. 

 

I had an up close tour with that thing today--almost T-Boned it pretty hard trying to get out of my slip w/ my 20 y/o Viper!

YES!

 

Good luck Dudeski! Make sure you beat Vogel!



#207 Left Hook

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 05:20 PM

280 crushed the first race after being moved down a division

#208 miahmouse

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 05:32 PM

rating seems a bit off IMO...  Based on the description here, I would expect it to be more than 3 seconds faster/mile than a Mumm30.

 

https://www.thedailysail.com/inshore/14/66062/0/pat-shaughnessy-on-the-farr-280-one-design 

 

The Farr 280 rig and sails were sized carefully to provide excellent all-around performance. Upwind sail area/displacement is 10% higher than the Farr 30, yet the righting moment is high enough to provide similar overall tenderness. Even with a broader hull shape, the upwind sail area/wetted surface ratio is the same as the Farr 30, while the downwind sail area/displacement is 40% higher than the Farr 30. These parameters ensure that the boat has generous sail area for light air but also plenty of power to handle the sailplan up range. The downwind sailplan promises a very lively boat that will be up on the step early.



#209 Just a Skosh

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 06:04 PM

280 crushed the first race after being moved down a division

 

Frankly I think they'd be a lot closer to their competition in PHRF A...  Looking at the spreads at least. 



#210 Sarc

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 06:59 PM

2 bullets for the 280...shouda kept it in class A



#211 DamnSkippy

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 02:52 PM

So you have Ian Gordon driving and Chris Larson calling tactics on the 280, in PHRF 'B' fleet..... come'on man!!!



#212 Presuming Ed

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 04:01 PM



#213 barefoot children

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 06:30 PM

Doing very well at Charleston race week.1,1,2 on slightly breezy Friday in PHRF B, 1 in first race in lite air Sat so far

#214 Presuming Ed

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 06:24 AM



#215 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 11:21 AM

1,1,2 yesterday as well, leading by a long way.  Longer interview with co-owner Ian Gordon is up on Facebook.com/charlestonraceweek - look in Videos.



#216 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 11:24 AM

2 bullets for the 280...shouda kept it in class A

They rate dead even with two boats in B and are smaller than all of them except the seascape, and not even at all with any boats in A.  Logic to moving them to the faster fleet?



#217 dolphinmaster

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 12:08 PM

Clean,  when are these vids going to include data in a sidewindow, ie windspeed, boatspeed etc.?



#218 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 12:42 PM

my little Vaavuud thing at least lets me post a graph of the wind every now and again, but as far as feeding data to an iPhone video - that's a long way off.  That's kind of a cool idea for an app though.  Know any developers?



#219 6924

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 01:42 PM

CRW Kinds puts the last knife in the J/88 doesn't it ?

#220 Murphness

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 03:34 PM

Seascape is kind of a bummer. Any intel Clean? Hopefully just a shit rating? Needs more breeze?



#221 Sarc

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 03:38 PM

Seascape is kind of a bummer. Any intel Clean? Hopefully just a shit rating? Needs more breeze?

 

I don't think the Seascape was initially designed for traditional buoy racing.

 

From what I've seen on their website it's toted as a sort of bigger mini.

 

I bet this boat would excel in SF bay with lot's of breeze and longer courses like double handed Farralones and the Delta ditch. 



#222 Heriberto

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 07:05 PM

If it had to be in PHRF, this boat belonged in PHRF B, and the rating "seems fine". I love how everyone busts on PHRF over one design, except when it's a high horsepower adver..... designer's prospective one design racing in it. Then it's all "break out the champagne for the PHRF victories!". LOL

 

It's too bad HPR isn't attractive enough for boats in this size range (four boats on their line ought to get them thinking).

 

That aside, well done to the Farr team for coming loaded for bear and definitely sailing the boat well! It looked really good in the videos and pictures. Looks like a decent around the cans OD.



#223 nroose

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 09:28 PM

Was this intentional?  Looks to me like he has palm tree hair.

 

Looks like a fun boat sailed by rockstars, but will that translate to sales?

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#224 FatimaRules

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 12:02 AM

Loving this boat, but....

The running backstay arrangement just looks a pain in the arse. Couldn't someone come up with a course tune/fine tune arrangement that avoided the need for those winches and someone coming back to trim them?

#225 Christian

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:34 AM

Loving this boat, but....

The running backstay arrangement just looks a pain in the arse. Couldn't someone come up with a course tune/fine tune arrangement that avoided the need for those winches and someone coming back to trim them?

That's exactly what we have on my Viper 830 (dual backs due to squaretop main) we have a block spliced to each of the backstays with one tail going to a cleat and the other to a 3:1 purchase and then a cleat so it gives us a 2:1 and a 6:1 gross/fine tune - it also means a lot less line floating around



#226 Norm

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 04:15 AM

agree with running backstays being PITA - guy is dancing the back of the boat around each tack/gybe running a line back to winch - it



#227 FatimaRules

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 05:36 AM

Given the mast stands up without them, you could even just run them up to the windward primary.

#228 crash

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 05:15 PM

CRW Kinds puts the last knife in the J/88 doesn't it ?

 

Not sure why you'd think that. Well actually I do have an idea, but...  Almost all the PHRF classes finished roughly in line with their ratings.  Fastest rated boats did well, slower boats not as well. Some exceptions, but not many. Hard to compare boats without comparing crew. I don't know all the pro sailors, but I'm guessing the 88 guys were not a boat load of pros.   I know when I bought my 2003 109 and raced it in its first bigger regatta, we certainly a midpack crew on a great boat and got midpack results. Hopefully, no one looked at our results and decided not to buy a 109. 



#229 6924

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 07:57 PM

Crash,

F280 is less expensive and a modern planing boat. very easily a OD fleet

#230 Swimsailor

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 08:38 PM

I think that's a very short sighted statement.  People don't buy J Boats because they win races.  The buy them because they are fast for their size, have awesome resale value, built incredibly well, simple to sail and even a J/24 has a place for the wife to piss or the kids to go below and chill.  

 

The Farr 280 is badass, looks awesome and is obviously fast.  But runners?  Hydraulics?  Sounds like a complicated boat to make fast.  That's definitely up many people's ally but I'm willing to bet there are very few people cross shopping the the 280 and the J/88.

 

I would have to be basing the decision on how comfy would my wife and kids be, not just how badass dad would look at the local club race.

 

 

CRW Kinds puts the last knife in the J/88 doesn't it ?



#231 Savage 17

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:02 PM

The J88, Farr 280 and C&C 30 are in the the same category size wise..... All are relatively the same price for a baseboat $115k-$125k.

 

The J-88 has great brand, protected resale and 50+ orders Can be sold to wife and take kids on cruise. Cons- Isn't the most high tech design, hasn't had great race results.

 

The Farr 280 is a new boat, grand prix OD racing. All the bells and whistles for going fast. Cons - Can enough boats be sold for OD? Only purpose is racing.

 

The C&C is a new boat, grand prix OD racing, but with Ocean racing capability. Very similar to Farr 280. Cons - Can enough boats be sold for OD? Only purpose is racing. Can the C&C name be re-branded to be Grand Prix oriented?

 

It is a great time to be in the market for a 30ft boat right now. I would rather have more options, then none. I think each design has both pros and cons. At the end of the day it will come down to personal choice.

 

I look forward to seeing all 3 race int he same class at NYYC Race Week.... hopefully each boat will be stacked, so we can really see what the boats can do against each other.

 

Congrats to the Farr 280 for wining Charleston Race week.... winning races always helps sell boats!!!

 

Just my 2 cents....

 

And yes, all 3 are on my short list!



#232 crash

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:23 PM

Crash,

F280 is less expensive and a modern planing boat. very easily a OD fleet

 

So let me be clear up front. I think the Farr 280 is an awesome boat.  I hope they sell hundreds of them.  It was a very impressive debut.  All I was saying was I wouldn't judge the J/88 based on it's results at Charleston.  No more than I would judge any boat (Farr 280 included) by the results of a single regatta.

 

If less expensive and "modern planning" were all it took to a successful OD make, a lot of boats would be successful ODs that aren't.  I'd love to know your definition of a "modern planning boat" as one could call the J/88 a modern planning boat as well.  Not as fast a planning boat as the Farr 280, true.  But I'm not sure the two boats are direct competitors either.  I think the Farr appeals to a different sailor then the J/88.



#233 6924

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:29 PM

Crash,

Surfing is not planing.

#234 crash

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:50 PM

My but you do get tiresome when you go on like this...You bashed the hell out of the 70, now you're doing it with the 88.  What, did one of the Johnstones steal your girlfriend in High School?



#235 Left Hook

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 11:41 PM

Frankly I can't wait to see what the C&C30 can do. Looks like the perfect first boat 7-8 years down the line. 



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Posted 15 April 2014 - 01:40 AM


2 bullets for the 280...shouda kept it in class A

They rate dead even with two boats in B and are smaller than all of them except the seascape, and not even at all with any boats in A.  Logic to moving them to the faster fleet?

+1

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 01:59 AM

So you have Ian Gordon driving and Chris Larson calling tactics on the 280, in PHRF 'B' fleet..... come'on man!!!


And Gerry Taylor sails with pros on his boat. So your point is pros aren't allowed to sail in PHRF B?

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 02:03 AM

Clean, did you get a ride on the 280?

#239 richiec

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 11:33 AM

Please race a melges 32 around the same course. Then we'll discuss. But the 280 looks nice. Sort of like a McConnaghy 38... Scaled down.

#240 Turd Sandwich

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 11:57 AM

I think that's a very short sighted statement.  People don't buy J Boats because they win races.  The buy them because they are fast for their size, have awesome resale value, built incredibly well, simple to sail and even a J/24 has a place for the wife to piss or the kids to go below and chill.  

 

The Farr 280 is badass, looks awesome and is obviously fast.  But runners?  Hydraulics?  Sounds like a complicated boat to make fast.  That's definitely up many people's ally but I'm willing to bet there are very few people cross shopping the the 280 and the J/88.

 

I would have to be basing the decision on how comfy would my wife and kids be, not just how badass dad would look at the local club race.

 

 

CRW Kinds puts the last knife in the J/88 doesn't it ?

The Farr 280 is the opposite of hard to make fast. No more getting caught with your pants down when the wind falls out or pipes up rig tension or rake wise. Thats what i call easy to make go fast. Also they are not runners. Its just a simple split back stay because of the square top main. It does not keep the rig in the boat. All it does is control headstay tension and bend the mast for mainsail shape. Smaller sport boats do away with the backstay all together and just use a hell of a lot of purchase on the vang to do the same thing which does not scale up very well on larger boats. Nothing complicated, hard to use or scary here.

 

My problem with the boat is it should be a hell of a lot faster than a mumm than just 9 seconds. Not much of a leap forward even with all the high tech. I expected something that rated in the 30's. Maybe the 45 is just one hell of a gift rating or the fucker is just too heavy. Time will tell. I would like to see the boat race a well sorted Henderson that rates basicly the same. If it can hang or beat the hendo uphill then the rating is a gift.



#241 Readie1

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 01:29 PM

There's no doubt the Farr 280 looks awesome and the earliest of showings demonstrate good handicap racing too, it would certainly be interesting to see how it would rate under IRC over on this side of the Atlantic. Is the market already over populated in class one designs around this size? Will this inhibit their potential sales?

 

One other thing I am hesitant about though is its lack of offshore capability. As someone who raced the Mumm 30 for quite a few years including a Tour Voile I would like to have seen this boat being able to fill the gap in the 28-32ft high performance all rounder.



#242 Murphness

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 01:49 PM

Anyone know if the black is gelcoat or paint? 

 

Wonder how much work it will be to keep it black?

 

It looks fing awesome though, no doubt about that...



#243 Speng

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 02:07 PM

The comparisons to a Mumm30 are absolutely ridiculous as the boat has nowhere near the necessary offshore kit. It would need

  • a proper hatch - an option I know but the hatch location is also a bit forward.
  • Lifelines - also an option
  • additional head sails, kites and/or code 0s = new rating + can the rig take that.
  • For offshore with the kite retriever kit etc is there enough space down below.
  • That flush deck isn't Cat 2 AFAIK although people get away with all kinds of shit nowadays.

Having said that it'll be a decent boat for inshore. The inboard is for the Euro market, proper English gentlemen on the Solent don't wrestle with outboards although 18hp is way overkill. Should've had a retractable keel.



#244 rantifarian

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 11:13 PM

The comparisons to a Mumm30 are absolutely ridiculous as the boat has nowhere near the necessary offshore kit. It would need

  • a proper hatch - an option I know but the hatch location is also a bit forward.
  • Lifelines - also an option
  • additional head sails, kites and/or code 0s = new rating + can the rig take that.
  • For offshore with the kite retriever kit etc is there enough space down below.
  • That flush deck isn't Cat 2 AFAIK although people get away with all kinds of shit nowadays.

Having said that it'll be a decent boat for inshore. The inboard is for the Euro market, proper English gentlemen on the Solent don't wrestle with outboards although 18hp is way overkill. Should've had a retractable keel.

It is also only ISO/CE CAT B with optional extras added, so category 3 races at the most if racing under the Offshore Special Regs. No idea whether that makes any difference under the myriad of US offshore rules though



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Posted Yesterday, 01:56 AM


Loving this boat, but....

The running backstay arrangement just looks a pain in the arse. Couldn't someone come up with a course tune/fine tune arrangement that avoided the need for those winches and someone coming back to trim them?

That's exactly what we have on my Viper 830 (dual backs due to squaretop main) we have a block spliced to each of the backstays with one tail going to a cleat and the other to a 3:1 purchase and then a cleat so it gives us a 2:1 and a 6:1 gross/fine tune - it also means a lot less line floating around

Either the runners are lightly loaded on the viper or you are built like Captain America. Of course both are also possible.

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Posted Yesterday, 02:01 AM


The comparisons to a Mumm30 are absolutely ridiculous as the boat has nowhere near the necessary offshore kit. It would need

  • a proper hatch - an option I know but the hatch location is also a bit forward.
  • Lifelines - also an option
  • additional head sails, kites and/or code 0s = new rating + can the rig take that.
  • For offshore with the kite retriever kit etc is there enough space down below.
  • That flush deck isn't Cat 2 AFAIK although people get away with all kinds of shit nowadays.
Having said that it'll be a decent boat for inshore. The inboard is for the Euro market, proper English gentlemen on the Solent don't wrestle with outboards although 18hp is way overkill. Should've had a retractable keel.

Rig can take the Code 0 as it was designed from the beginning with the 0 in mind. When my partner and I met with Patrick and Ian they noted, "someone is going to put a Code 0 up on this boat so the rig needs to be ready."

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Posted Yesterday, 02:12 AM

If it had to be in PHRF, this boat belonged in PHRF B, and the rating "seems fine". I love how everyone busts on PHRF over one design, except when it's a high horsepower adver..... designer's prospective one design racing in it. Then it's all "break out the champagne for the PHRF victories!". LOL
 
It's too bad HPR isn't attractive enough for boats in this size range (four boats on their line ought to get them thinking).
 
That aside, well done to the Farr team for coming loaded for bear and definitely sailing the boat well! It looked really good in the videos and pictures. Looks like a decent around the cans OD.


Hopefully the arrival of the Farr 280 and other "sporty" designs will encourage the HPR benefactors to consider a rule review for +/- 30 footers. In my perfect world, there would be HPR "A" and "B" fleets. As Heriberto noted, boats need to get sailing under this rule or it will fade away.

#248 Christian

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Posted Yesterday, 02:27 AM

 


Loving this boat, but....

The running backstay arrangement just looks a pain in the arse. Couldn't someone come up with a course tune/fine tune arrangement that avoided the need for those winches and someone coming back to trim them?

That's exactly what we have on my Viper 830 (dual backs due to squaretop main) we have a block spliced to each of the backstays with one tail going to a cleat and the other to a 3:1 purchase and then a cleat so it gives us a 2:1 and a 6:1 gross/fine tune - it also means a lot less line floating around

Either the runners are lightly loaded on the viper or you are built like Captain America. Of course both are also possible.

They are dual backs - not runners - just like the F280 - only used for sail shape and lending a hand with kite up in 15+ or a C0.  Not sure how loaded the backs on the F280 are but I doubt that it wouldn't be possible to have a winchless solution



#249 Speng

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Posted Yesterday, 07:37 PM

The comparisons to a Mumm30 are absolutely ridiculous as the boat has nowhere near the necessary offshore kit. It would need

  • a proper hatch - an option I know but the hatch location is also a bit forward.
  • Lifelines - also an option
  • additional head sails, kites and/or code 0s = new rating + can the rig take that.
  • For offshore with the kite retriever kit etc is there enough space down below.
  • That flush deck isn't Cat 2 AFAIK although people get away with all kinds of shit nowadays.

Having said that it'll be a decent boat for inshore. The inboard is for the Euro market, proper English gentlemen on the Solent don't wrestle with outboards although 18hp is way overkill. Should've had a retractable keel.

It is also only ISO/CE CAT B with optional extras added, so category 3 races at the most if racing under the Offshore Special Regs. No idea whether that makes any difference under the myriad of US offshore rules though

Oh yeah forgot about that. Prolly one of the stupidest things about the OSR is that ISO connection. Having said that the OSR refers to the structural design of the boat which might be ISO cat A compliant so then you might be fine but you'd need a leter from the builder (a 28fter is never going to meet ISO Cat A stability requirements - not if you want something you'd want to race)



#250 Speng

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Posted Yesterday, 07:41 PM


The comparisons to a Mumm30 are absolutely ridiculous as the boat has nowhere near the necessary offshore kit. It would need

  • a proper hatch - an option I know but the hatch location is also a bit forward.
  • Lifelines - also an option
  • additional head sails, kites and/or code 0s = new rating + can the rig take that.
  • For offshore with the kite retriever kit etc is there enough space down below.
  • That flush deck isn't Cat 2 AFAIK although people get away with all kinds of shit nowadays.
Having said that it'll be a decent boat for inshore. The inboard is for the Euro market, proper English gentlemen on the Solent don't wrestle with outboards although 18hp is way overkill. Should've had a retractable keel.

Rig can take the Code 0 as it was designed from the beginning with the 0 in mind. When my partner and I met with Patrick and Ian they noted, "someone is going to put a Code 0 up on this boat so the rig needs to be ready."

That was mentioned already, my point was for it to be an offshore weapon like a Mumm30 it'd need probably 3 more headsails (one kite, one jib and a miscellaneous (like a code zero) - at least. As it is it is an inshore boat...






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