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Ridiculous Mistake, Ridiculous Punishment

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#1 JJD

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:18 AM

The Billionairre and his Boat Bitch have right royally screwed up this AC to the point that 5 days out from the Americas Cup final they dont have a boat that measures, and dont know who can sail it or who can fix it.

And of course the Billionairres Boat Bitch Russ think its all just a "ridiculous mistake".

Perhaps OTANZAC deserve a ridiculous punishment.

Personally, id have Jim Spit steer from a wicker crows nest mounted atop the wing.
Id have the shore crew sail the boat and the sailing team fix it.
Management will only be able to work at the next AC if they do two years as a fluffer first.
Those banned OTANZAC members must serve breakfast lunch and dinner at the ETNZ cafe for the duration of this cup. They must also serve as a fluffer for 4 years before they are allowed to sail again.
Because BA was not involved all other OTANZAC sailing crew must refer to him as Sir Ben Ains.......oh wait...
The AC34 film, television, book and merchanise rights (yes there will be a Jimmy Extreme Action Figure) are donated to ETNZ to fund future cup defences.

#2 Big Puff

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:47 AM

They can refund my travel costs too

#3 RGH

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:52 AM

Lmao we are getting as bad as ..... Those whom shall remain nameless ..... Apart from Perterhuston of course

#4 dogwatch

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:52 AM

(yes there will be a Jimmy Extreme Action Figure)

Does it come with a model F18? I believe some little girls like dolls that wee. Does Jimmy puke?

In rigorous research for this post, I read http://www.sail-worl...d=0&tickerCID=0 and found myself wondering, is there an "Eject, eject, eject" procedure from an OTUSA contract?

#5 Titan Uranus

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:11 AM

The Billionairre and his Boat Bitch have right royally screwed up this AC to the point that 5 days out from the Americas Cup final they dont have a boat that measures, and dont know who can sail it or who can fix it.
And of course the Billionairres Boat Bitch Russ think its all just a "ridiculous mistake".
Perhaps OTANZAC deserve a ridiculous punishment.
Personally, id have Jim Spit steer from a wicker crows nest mounted atop the wing.
Id have the shore crew sail the boat and the sailing team fix it.
Management will only be able to work at the next AC if they do two years as a fluffer first.
Those banned OTANZAC members must serve breakfast lunch and dinner at the ETNZ cafe for the duration of this cup. They must also serve as a fluffer for 4 years before they are allowed to sail again.
Because BA was not involved all other OTANZAC sailing crew must refer to him as Sir Ben Ains.......oh wait...
The AC34 film, television, book and merchanise rights (yes there will be a Jimmy Extreme Action Figure) are donated to ETNZ to fund future cup defences.


What's with the bagging of Russel Coutts?
Russ is nobodies bitch but maybe you all are his!... just by the way you guys make such stupid comments-.

This Guy is a legend and right now is the best AC helmsman in the sport. his achievement to start new teams to win the Cup, helm the boats and come up with new concepts is unequalled in the history of the event.

This guy is a still young and good enough to win a Volvo RTWR and is a qualified engineer.

He would have forgotten more than 99.9% of the people on this site will ever know. And the kiwis whom bag him only do so because they do not understand how TNZ (Blake, Sefton and Blackman) shafted him and MANY other kiwi team mates ( daubney, monk, Jones...)and he was forced to go to the Swiss.

Coutts is a sailing legend and will always be one. People who bag him on this site will never be remembered in the annuals of history and be forgotten as soon as they hit the coffin.

don,t bag winners. When you should be having a go at the rich "Gravey Trainers" whom extract millions from YOUR sport and produce pathetic outcomes for the sport. (IE - DB)

Let's face it if this cup had 3 challengers in the old 12 metre concept ( which in current economical conditions could be a possibility) you would all be pissed off a lot more than 3 challengers in theses boats! ( even though the racing is crap)

Russ is a true and proven legend. The rest have won nothing yet!!!

#6 HHN92

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:15 AM

You guys really drink pretty hard overnight, while I'm off catching some Zzz's.



#7 Abraxas3

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:29 AM

 

What's with the bagging of Russel Coutts?
Russ is nobodies bitch but maybe you all are his!... just by the way you guys make such stupid comments-.

This Guy is a legend and right now is the best AC helmsman in the sport. his achievement to start new teams to win the Cup, helm the boats and come up with new concepts is unequalled in the history of the event.

This guy is a still young and good enough to win a Volvo RTWR and is a qualified engineer.

He would have forgotten more than 99.9% of the people on this site will ever know. And the kiwis whom bag him only do so because they do not understand how TNZ (Blake, Sefton and Blackman) shafted him and MANY other kiwi team mates ( daubney, monk, Jones...)and he was forced to go to the Swiss.

Coutts is a sailing legend and will always be one. People who bag him on this site will never be remembered in the annuals of history and be forgotten as soon as they hit the coffin.

don,t bag winners. When you should be having a go at the rich "Gravey Trainers" whom extract millions from YOUR sport and produce pathetic outcomes for the sport. (IE - DB)

Let's face it if this cup had 3 challengers in the old 12 metre concept ( which in current economical conditions could be a possibility) you would all be pissed off a lot more than 3 challengers in theses boats! ( even though the racing is crap)

Russ is a true and proven legend. The rest have won nothing yet!!!

Of course Coutts is a legend, but he didn't have to go to the Swiss team, and take half his crew with him.

And before you keep going further in your mudslinging you can look up who helmed the NZ boat in race 5 in 2000, and while you are at it check if DB/GD has any other merits to their names. So haven't won nothing yet is maybe a bit much?

 

Btw: I'm not a Kiwi. 



#8 dogwatch

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:30 AM

don,t bag winners. When you should be having a go at the rich "Gravey Trainers" whom extract millions from YOUR sport and produce pathetic outcomes for the sport. (IE - DB)

Obvious troll to rattle Kiwi cages. Never mind, I have a little list. On you go.

#9 Titan Uranus

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:47 AM


 

What's with the bagging of Russel Coutts?
Russ is nobodies bitch but maybe you all are his!... just by the way you guys make such stupid comments-.
This Guy is a legend and right now is the best AC helmsman in the sport. his achievement to start new teams to win the Cup, helm the boats and come up with new concepts is unequalled in the history of the event.
This guy is a still young and good enough to win a Volvo RTWR and is a qualified engineer.
He would have forgotten more than 99.9% of the people on this site will ever know. And the kiwis whom bag him only do so because they do not understand how TNZ (Blake, Sefton and Blackman) shafted him and MANY other kiwi team mates ( daubney, monk, Jones...)and he was forced to go to the Swiss.
Coutts is a sailing legend and will always be one. People who bag him on this site will never be remembered in the annuals of history and be forgotten as soon as they hit the coffin.
don,t bag winners. When you should be having a go at the rich "Gravey Trainers" whom extract millions from YOUR sport and produce pathetic outcomes for the sport. (IE - DB)
Let's face it if this cup had 3 challengers in the old 12 metre concept ( which in current economical conditions could be a possibility) you would all be pissed off a lot more than 3 challengers in theses boats! ( even though the racing is crap)
Russ is a true and proven legend. The rest have won nothing yet!!!
Of course Coutts is a legend, but he didn't have to go to the Swiss team, and take half his crew with him.
And before you keep going further in your mudslinging you can look up who helmed the NZ boat in race 5 in 2000, and while you are at it check if DB/GD has any other merits to their names. So haven't won nothing yet is maybe a bit much?
 
Btw: I'm not a Kiwi. 

wTF! Barker helmed the last race after Coutts already had the event in the bag

And GD,s only win is a whitbread.

barkers record is crap too! One laser regatta and a couple of match racing events.

Tidy up you act buddy and get the detail right.

As for going to the Swiss.., well after Messrs Blake, Sefton, and Blackman asset stripped TNZ and left poor old coutts with nothing coutts sought funding for TNZ from Berterelli. Blake and co then stopped this option and left coutts and 16 others with no option but to go with a team that could be adequately funded and win.

Dean Barker was to thick to see the writing on the wall. Raced a boat that was in a team with no money for new masts ( thus why they broke one),wasted time and effort on a Hula, relied on a bucket to keep a boat dry, and in the end failed to defend the cup and has failed to win it back.

The facts hurt but Barker, Dalton and co have eaten up millions ( now in their bank accounts)of dollars over nine years and in reality only really care about their retirement fund.

Meanwhile Russ and do ( were proven to have made the right call) went on to win and win and win and have never looked back.

TNZ failed and all thanks to three guys greed a dumb DB.

That's the facts,

#10 Titan Uranus

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:49 AM

don,t bag winners. When you should be having a go at the rich "Gravey Trainers" whom extract millions from YOUR sport and produce pathetic outcomes for the sport. (IE - DB)

Obvious troll to rattle Kiwi cages. Never mind, I have a little list. On you go.
nice! Another moron not to worry about... whoever you are :-)

#11 Abraxas3

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:59 AM

 

 


 

What's with the bagging of Russel Coutts?
Russ is nobodies bitch but maybe you all are his!... just by the way you guys make such stupid comments-.
This Guy is a legend and right now is the best AC helmsman in the sport. his achievement to start new teams to win the Cup, helm the boats and come up with new concepts is unequalled in the history of the event.
This guy is a still young and good enough to win a Volvo RTWR and is a qualified engineer.
He would have forgotten more than 99.9% of the people on this site will ever know. And the kiwis whom bag him only do so because they do not understand how TNZ (Blake, Sefton and Blackman) shafted him and MANY other kiwi team mates ( daubney, monk, Jones...)and he was forced to go to the Swiss.
Coutts is a sailing legend and will always be one. People who bag him on this site will never be remembered in the annuals of history and be forgotten as soon as they hit the coffin.
don,t bag winners. When you should be having a go at the rich "Gravey Trainers" whom extract millions from YOUR sport and produce pathetic outcomes for the sport. (IE - DB)
Let's face it if this cup had 3 challengers in the old 12 metre concept ( which in current economical conditions could be a possibility) you would all be pissed off a lot more than 3 challengers in theses boats! ( even though the racing is crap)
Russ is a true and proven legend. The rest have won nothing yet!!!
Of course Coutts is a legend, but he didn't have to go to the Swiss team, and take half his crew with him.
And before you keep going further in your mudslinging you can look up who helmed the NZ boat in race 5 in 2000, and while you are at it check if DB/GD has any other merits to their names. So haven't won nothing yet is maybe a bit much?
 
Btw: I'm not a Kiwi. 

wTF! Barker helmed the last race after Coutts already had the event in the bag

And GD,s only win is a whitbread.

barkers record is crap too! One laser regatta and a couple of match racing events.

Tidy up you act buddy and get the detail right.

As for going to the Swiss.., well after Messrs Blake, Sefton, and Blackman asset stripped TNZ and left poor old coutts with nothing coutts sought funding for TNZ from Berterelli. Blake and co then stopped this option and left coutts and 16 others with no option but to go with a team that could be adequately funded and win.

Dean Barker was to thick to see the writing on the wall. Raced a boat that was in a team with no money for new masts ( thus why they broke one),wasted time and effort on a Hula, relied on a bucket to keep a boat dry, and in the end failed to defend the cup and has failed to win it back.

The facts hurt but Barker, Dalton and co have eaten up millions ( now in their bank accounts)of dollars over nine years and in reality only really care about their retirement fund.

Meanwhile Russ and do ( were proven to have made the right call) went on to win and win and win and have never looked back.

TNZ failed and all thanks to three guys greed a dumb DB.

That's the facts,

Just for the record: http://en.wikipedia....ker_(yachtsman)

 

Summary of Sailing career[edit source | editbeta]
1988: P-Class Tanner Cup (1st), P-Class Tauranga Cup (1st)
1993: Asian Pacific Laser Champs (1st), NZ Matchracing Champs (1st), world Laser champs (10th)
1994: NZ Matchracing champs (1st)
1995: NZ Matchracing champs (1st)
1996: Finn class world ranking (5th), Olympic Finn class trials (5th), Kenwood Cup (3rd)
1997: Steinlager Line 7 Cup (2nd), NZ Matchracing champs (2nd), Sydney-Hobart (9th)
1998: Australia Cup (1st), ACI Cup Croatia (2nd), Swedish Match Cup (3rd), Kenwood Cup (1st)
2001: ISAF World Matchracing champs (1st)
2003: Skipper and helmsman of America's Cup defender Team New Zealand (beaten 0–5 by challenger Alinghi)
2004: Olympic Games, Finn class (13th)
2005: Congressional Cup (1st)
2006: MedCup TP52 circuit (2nd)
2007: Louis Vuitton Cup winner and America's Cup challenger (beaten 2–5 by defender Alinghi)
2009: Louis Vuitton Pacific Series (1st)
2009: Audi MedCup TP52 circuit (1st)
2010: Audi MedCup TP52 circuit (1st)
2010: Louis Vuitton Trophy (3 championship wins)
2011: America's Cup World Series

 

Grant Dalton: 

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Grant_Dalton

 

Grant Dalton has raced around the world seven times; the first five as part of the Whitbread Round the World Race later to be called the Volvo Ocean Race. This race has transformed itself during Grant's involvement from a race of adventurers to a grand prix yachting event. Here is a list of his participation
1981-82 Whitbread in Flyer II
1983 Southern Cross Cup
1985 Admiral's Cup
1985-86 Whitbread in Lion New Zealand
1987 Admiral's Cup
1989-90 Whitbread in Fisher & Paykel a Maxi Ketch designed by Farr Yacht Design
1991 Fastnet
1993-94 New Zealand Endeavour
1997-98 Merit Cup - Volvo Ocean 60
2001-02 Amer Sports One - Volvo Ocean 60 designed by German Frers

He then skippered and won the The Race a sprint around the world on maxi catamaran Club Med. The race started on 1 January 2001 and finished on 3 March. Club Med broke several records along the way including the distance sailed in 24 hours (656 nautical miles) and the fastest circumnavigation (62 days and 7 hours).

---

So who am I to say that these guys hav won nothing??? 

 

And I'm sure your record "Mr Americas Cup" is much better than this "crap".



#12 brian weslake

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 12:02 PM

The Billionairre and his Boat Bitch have right royally screwed up this AC to the point that 5 days out from the Americas Cup final they dont have a boat that measures, and dont know who can sail it or who can fix it.
And of course the Billionairres Boat Bitch Russ think its all just a "ridiculous mistake".
Perhaps OTANZAC deserve a ridiculous punishment.
Personally, id have Jim Spit steer from a wicker crows nest mounted atop the wing.
Id have the shore crew sail the boat and the sailing team fix it.
Management will only be able to work at the next AC if they do two years as a fluffer first.
Those banned OTANZAC members must serve breakfast lunch and dinner at the ETNZ cafe for the duration of this cup. They must also serve as a fluffer for 4 years before they are allowed to sail again.
Because BA was not involved all other OTANZAC sailing crew must refer to him as Sir Ben Ains.......oh wait...
The AC34 film, television, book and merchanise rights (yes there will be a Jimmy Extreme Action Figure) are donated to ETNZ to fund future cup defences.


What's with the bagging of Russel Coutts?
Russ is nobodies bitch but maybe you all are his!... just by the way you guys make such stupid comments-.
This Guy is a legend and right now is the best AC helmsman in the sport. his achievement to start new teams to win the Cup, helm the boats and come up with new concepts is unequalled in the history of the event.
This guy is a still young and good enough to win a Volvo RTWR and is a qualified engineer.
He would have forgotten more than 99.9% of the people on this site will ever know. And the kiwis whom bag him only do so because they do not understand how TNZ (Blake, Sefton and Blackman) shafted him and MANY other kiwi team mates ( daubney, monk, Jones...)and he was forced to go to the Swiss.
Coutts is a sailing legend and will always be one. People who bag him on this site will never be remembered in the annuals of history and be forgotten as soon as they hit the coffin.
don,t bag winners. When you should be having a go at the rich "Gravey Trainers" whom extract millions from YOUR sport and produce pathetic outcomes for the sport. (IE - DB)
Let's face it if this cup had 3 challengers in the old 12 metre concept ( which in current economical conditions could be a possibility) you would all be pissed off a lot more than 3 challengers in theses boats! ( even though the racing is crap)
Russ is a true and proven legend. The rest have won nothing yet!!!

Russ, is that you?

#13 NZL3481

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 12:03 PM

The Billionairre and his Boat Bitch have right royally screwed up this AC to the point that 5 days out from the Americas Cup final they dont have a boat that measures, and dont know who can sail it or who can fix it.
And of course the Billionairres Boat Bitch Russ think its all just a "ridiculous mistake".
Perhaps OTANZAC deserve a ridiculous punishment.
Personally, id have Jim Spit steer from a wicker crows nest mounted atop the wing.
Id have the shore crew sail the boat and the sailing team fix it.
Management will only be able to work at the next AC if they do two years as a fluffer first.
Those banned OTANZAC members must serve breakfast lunch and dinner at the ETNZ cafe for the duration of this cup. They must also serve as a fluffer for 4 years before they are allowed to sail again.
Because BA was not involved all other OTANZAC sailing crew must refer to him as Sir Ben Ains.......oh wait...
The AC34 film, television, book and merchanise rights (yes there will be a Jimmy Extreme Action Figure) are donated to ETNZ to fund future cup defences.


What's with the bagging of Russel Coutts?
Russ is nobodies bitch but maybe you all are his!... just by the way you guys make such stupid comments-.

This Guy is a legend and right now is the best AC helmsman in the sport. his achievement to start new teams to win the Cup, helm the boats and come up with new concepts is unequalled in the history of the event.

This guy is a still young and good enough to win a Volvo RTWR and is a qualified engineer.

He would have forgotten more than 99.9% of the people on this site will ever know. And the kiwis whom bag him only do so because they do not understand how TNZ (Blake, Sefton and Blackman) shafted him and MANY other kiwi team mates ( daubney, monk, Jones...)and he was forced to go to the Swiss.

Coutts is a sailing legend and will always be one. People who bag him on this site will never be remembered in the annuals of history and be forgotten as soon as they hit the coffin.

don,t bag winners. When you should be having a go at the rich "Gravey Trainers" whom extract millions from YOUR sport and produce pathetic outcomes for the sport. (IE - DB)

Let's face it if this cup had 3 challengers in the old 12 metre concept ( which in current economical conditions could be a possibility) you would all be pissed off a lot more than 3 challengers in theses boats! ( even though the racing is crap)

Russ is a true and proven legend. The rest have won nothing yet!!!

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Dean Barker & ETNZ win the AC45 World Series?



#14 uflux

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 12:04 PM

 

don,t bag winners. When you should be having a go at the rich "Gravey Trainers" whom extract millions from YOUR sport and produce pathetic outcomes for the sport. (IE - DB)

Obvious troll to rattle Kiwi cages. Never mind, I have a little list. On you go.
nice! Another moron not to worry about... whoever you are :-)

 

Ahahaha.... AC you crack me up with your utter BS....your such a numpty...

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#15 acintel

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 12:11 PM

Coutts used to be the best sailor in the world, but what we are looking at is the present AC. 

His arrogance and need to be recognised by the business world and refer to as CEO has delivered the results. 

Well... if we can call the mega failure AC34 is a result. 

 

He proved to be the worst manager you can imagine. He failed miserably where he wanted to excel. So the fact that he was a good sailor does not forgive his miserable acts. 



#16 Yo..V

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 12:17 PM

Americas Cup - Are you the famous Kiwi they call  'Brownie'



#17 NZL5

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 12:22 PM

He also won each time sailing the faster boat. So unless he is designing them too, lets take his success with a pinch of salt..

#18 acintel

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 12:30 PM

He also won each time sailing the faster boat. So unless he is designing them too, lets take his success with a pinch of salt..

 

As much as I think he a wanker now, he's pretty much involved in design. He has the ability to get the designer to deliver what the sailors want/need.

 

This doesn't change the fact he's a miserable manager and should resign and go away burning the dollars mattress Ellison made for him. 



#19 the paradox of thrift

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 12:37 PM

Good stuff Americas Cup! Good to see you going all-in to supprt Russell and OR on a day when their stocks plunge to a record low. It's like you're writing a rave review of Enron the day before they collapse, or you're recommending short-stay holidays in Poland in 1939.

 

The reality is today Oracle are shitting all over their fans. They might as well be lining up all their fans and spraying them with untreated sewerage through high pressure hoses.

 

Nobody could plumb lower depths of treachery and ill-will. They cheated in a one-design regatta they instigated and made everyone enter who wanted to be in the Cup. The format of the event was flawed but they have now turned it to farce.

 

At the head of the enterprise were Larry Ellison and Russell Coutts. The responsibility for this situation sits squarely with them. 

 

Coutts was loved, revered even by Kiwis, for winning Olympic gold and then taking NZL32 to victory in San Diego. But for ten years now his success has been contingent on NZ failure. For NZ to prevail Russell must fail. His defiance of the country that made his reputation, his embarrassing attitude and the charmless arrogance he exhibits have polarised his former supporters against him.

 

Everything that is going down now in SF is 100% the responsibility of Russell and his team. It has nothing to do with ETNZ or LR. They have followed the rules and turned up to race.

 

So 'Americas Cup', whoever's sock-puppet you are (SWS?), I hope it's excrutiatingly painful for Oracle Racing tomorrow and I hope your day isn't too crappy standing in front of the giant Oracle poo hose with Russell.



#20 dogwatch

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 01:00 PM

So 'Americas Cup', whoever's sock-puppet you are (SWS?)

He's not SWS or Huston (which iirc eric e suggested). The writing style isn't the same as either of them and faking writing style is hard to sustain.

The first thread he started was an obvious troll and when enough people were drawn in, he posted yah-boo-sucks-you-are-all-idiots-for-responding.

He's posted today taking two precisely opposing positions, presumably to get a rise from different people in different threads.

It's classic trolling. I will grant it's well done - except failing to maintain one consistent position is a give-away. Rise to it if you want.

#21 davidprobable

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:05 PM

I had a boat named  Dogwatch.   It was a dog as well.    It was recalcitrant and poorly designed and built with faulty materials.   It was scrapped as landfill.    So good to see it resurrected here.   Especially  as a Pirate of Pensance.   Carry on Dogwatch.



#22 dogwatch

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:11 PM

Interesting you are popping up here Probable. A couple of years ago you had me suckered in on a thread discussing I can no longer remember what. However I realised you were trolling when you started arguing precisely the opposite to what you'd argued for equally vehemently the day before. It was an education, for which I thank you. I am now wiser in spotting a troll.

Recalcitrant, quite possibly. I'm not yet landfill although that may come to pass. More likely to end up as ashes in a pot around here as landfill is filling up.

#23 Kia Ora

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:14 PM

Some of you guys are quite pathetic. JJD? How old are you? Only child? Raised by your Mum?

#24 The Real Whomper

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:15 PM

Coutts used to be the best sailor in the world, but what we are looking at is the present AC. 

His arrogance and need to be recognised by the business world and refer to as CEO has delivered the results. 

Well... if we can call the mega failure AC34 is a result. 

 

He proved to be the worst manager you can imagine. He failed miserably where he wanted to excel. So the fact that he was a good sailor does not forgive his miserable acts. 

It seems to me problems have occurred several times in history when Russell has had aspirations to step up to any role above taking charge of a crew.

 

1997 - Russell is smacked down by his principal employers, TNZ, because of his strategy to finance his Match Race World Series team with money from companies operating in direct competition with sponsors of TNZ.

 

2000 - He & Brad had been lined up for years to take over TNZ following the 2000 event. When he arrived in the hot seat, he allegedly found the balance sheet weighed down by decisions made by previous management (NZD 10m of loans advanced by previous sponsors if I recall). Rather than worry about truth/lies & rights/wrongs of that situation, let's give him the benefit of the doubt & accept he was entitled in every way to throw his toys out of the pram. In today's context though, it is difficult to overlook that he was beginning a new cup cycle with committed sponsors on board. TNZ didn't fail in 2003 for lack of funding: the SAP deal they went on to do was massive compared to any money they had seen before - negotiated and secured, I might add, without the marquee names of Coutts & other Team Magic luminaries on board. Their departure to Alinghi with full knowledge of NZL-60 and the paranoia that ensued were much bigger factors in TNZ's collapse than insufficient funding.

 

2004 - Russell becomes disillusioned with Alinghi because the event management responsibilities he coveted, and which had allegedly been promised to him, did not materialise. In his absence, EB's first-choice management team produces the most watched, most commercially successful event in the history of sailing and the best match in 26 years - incidentally, again featuring by the TNZ team he found so beleaguered by deception back in 2000.

 

2007-2010 Finally, having attained the team CEO position that he coveted for more than a decade, he goes on to preside over the chief protagonists in one of the biggest debacles seen in professional sport, causing a destruction of goodwill that continues to cast a shadow over the franchise’s credibility.

 

2013 - The 35th America's Cup, an event built under his leadership and in substantial part on his vision for the (failed) World Sailing League, takes place.

 

There is no doubting his champion pedigree or, frankly, his integrity - arguably all of his key decisions have been based on strong principle and a belief that all parties should play within the rules. It’s not even that all of these situations are of his making – 2000, 2007, would appear not to be. It’s his lack of ability to form viable strategies and deal with adversity – both qualities that are fairly highly sought-after in CEO’s.



#25 Desprit

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:22 PM

Americas Cup - Are you the famous Kiwi they call  'Brownie'


These days he is referred to as "Sir Graham" following his knighthood for services to trolling.

#26 blakie

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 03:23 PM

impressive real whomper....he is just about right except this is AC34 not 35.

#27 DA-WOODY

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    COUGARS COUGARS & More COUGARS

Posted 03 September 2013 - 04:27 PM

Lmao we are getting as bad as ..... Those whom shall remain nameless ..... Apart from Perterhuston of course

 

:o  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:



#28 umpire

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 04:33 PM

   as a Pirate of Pensance.   Carry on Dogwatch.

 

Where is Pensance?



#29 Redsled

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 06:19 PM

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”  



#30 snaerk

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 08:34 PM

Americas Cup - Are you the famous Kiwi they call  'Brownie'

 

duz the last sillabel rym with "pie"  ? ? ?



#31 snaerk

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 08:39 PM

Nyss summary, Real Whomper

 

RC is hamperd by his lack of awareness ov hiz limitayshunz



#32 Lat35sowth

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 08:58 PM

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”  

Or is it the person who cheats and gets away with it....



#33 Titan Uranus

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:14 PM

 

 


 

What's with the bagging of Russel Coutts?
Russ is nobodies bitch but maybe you all are his!... just by the way you guys make such stupid comments-.
This Guy is a legend and right now is the best AC helmsman in the sport. his achievement to start new teams to win the Cup, helm the boats and come up with new concepts is unequalled in the history of the event.
This guy is a still young and good enough to win a Volvo RTWR and is a qualified engineer.
He would have forgotten more than 99.9% of the people on this site will ever know. And the kiwis whom bag him only do so because they do not understand how TNZ (Blake, Sefton and Blackman) shafted him and MANY other kiwi team mates ( daubney, monk, Jones...)and he was forced to go to the Swiss.
Coutts is a sailing legend and will always be one. People who bag him on this site will never be remembered in the annuals of history and be forgotten as soon as they hit the coffin.
don,t bag winners. When you should be having a go at the rich "Gravey Trainers" whom extract millions from YOUR sport and produce pathetic outcomes for the sport. (IE - DB)
Let's face it if this cup had 3 challengers in the old 12 metre concept ( which in current economical conditions could be a possibility) you would all be pissed off a lot more than 3 challengers in theses boats! ( even though the racing is crap)
Russ is a true and proven legend. The rest have won nothing yet!!!
Of course Coutts is a legend, but he didn't have to go to the Swiss team, and take half his crew with him.
And before you keep going further in your mudslinging you can look up who helmed the NZ boat in race 5 in 2000, and while you are at it check if DB/GD has any other merits to their names. So haven't won nothing yet is maybe a bit much?
 
Btw: I'm not a Kiwi. 
wTF! Barker helmed the last race after Coutts already had the event in the bag

And GD,s only win is a whitbread.

barkers record is crap too! One laser regatta and a couple of match racing events.

Tidy up you act buddy and get the detail right.

As for going to the Swiss.., well after Messrs Blake, Sefton, and Blackman asset stripped TNZ and left poor old coutts with nothing coutts sought funding for TNZ from Berterelli. Blake and co then stopped this option and left coutts and 16 others with no option but to go with a team that could be adequately funded and win.

Dean Barker was to thick to see the writing on the wall. Raced a boat that was in a team with no money for new masts ( thus why they broke one),wasted time and effort on a Hula, relied on a bucket to keep a boat dry, and in the end failed to defend the cup and has failed to win it back.

The facts hurt but Barker, Dalton and co have eaten up millions ( now in their bank accounts)of dollars over nine years and in reality only really care about their retirement fund.

Meanwhile Russ and do ( were proven to have made the right call) went on to win and win and win and have never looked back.

TNZ failed and all thanks to three guys greed a dumb DB.

That's the facts,
Just for the record: http://en.wikipedia....ker_(yachtsman) Summary of Sailing career[edit source | editbeta]
1988: P-Class Tanner Cup (1st), P-Class Tauranga Cup (1st)
1993: Asian Pacific Laser Champs (1st), NZ Matchracing Champs (1st), world Laser champs (10th)
1994: NZ Matchracing champs (1st)
1995: NZ Matchracing champs (1st)
1996: Finn class world ranking (5th), Olympic Finn class trials (5th), Kenwood Cup (3rd)
1997: Steinlager Line 7 Cup (2nd), NZ Matchracing champs (2nd), Sydney-Hobart (9th)
1998: Australia Cup (1st), ACI Cup Croatia (2nd), Swedish Match Cup (3rd), Kenwood Cup (1st)
2001: ISAF World Matchracing champs (1st)
2003: Skipper and helmsman of America's Cup defender Team New Zealand (beaten 0–5 by challenger Alinghi)
2004: Olympic Games, Finn class (13th)
2005: Congressional Cup (1st)
2006: MedCup TP52 circuit (2nd)
2007: Louis Vuitton Cup winner and America's Cup challenger (beaten 2–5 by defender Alinghi)
2009: Louis Vuitton Pacific Series (1st)
2009: Audi MedCup TP52 circuit (1st)
2010: Audi MedCup TP52 circuit (1st)
2010: Louis Vuitton Trophy (3 championship wins)
2011: America's Cup World Series Grant Dalton: http://en.wikipedia....ki/Grant_Dalton Grant Dalton has raced around the world seven times; the first five as part of the Whitbread Round the World Race later to be called the Volvo Ocean Race. This race has transformed itself during Grant's involvement from a race of adventurers to a grand prix yachting event. Here is a list of his participation
1981-82 Whitbread in Flyer II
1983 Southern Cross Cup
1985 Admiral's Cup
1985-86 Whitbread in Lion New Zealand
1987 Admiral's Cup
1989-90 Whitbread in Fisher & Paykel a Maxi Ketch designed by Farr Yacht Design
1991 Fastnet
1993-94 New Zealand Endeavour
1997-98 Merit Cup - Volvo Ocean 60
2001-02 Amer Sports One - Volvo Ocean 60 designed by German Frers

He then skippered and won the The Race a sprint around the world on maxi catamaran Club Med. The race started on 1 January 2001 and finished on 3 March. Club Med broke several records along the way including the distance sailed in 24 hours (656 nautical miles) and the fastest circumnavigation (62 days and 7 hours).---So who am I to say that these guys hav won nothing???  And I'm sure your record "Mr Americas Cup" is much better than this "crap".

Thanks for backing my statement.

barker only wins small events. He is a failure at the big stuff... like oh lets say... the olympics , world champs in big fleet classes, AC.

And as for Dalton. We'll, all but one of these stats is aa a helms man. All the rest are as sewer man, grinder.

If Russ had not taken off to the the Swiss. Dalton would not be heard of and would still be riding his bike in duathlons.
Russ - 1 Olympic medal. 3 AC, many world champs. Engineer, conceptionalist, winner. CEO.

Conner - medals, world champs, AC, personality plus, winner, manager, business owner

barker, never had a real job, daddy,s money kept him employed in sailing, big event loser.

Dalton - winch monkey, 10 years at the AC and no win, no personality. Has a Greta marketing/promotional team. Straight talker.

#34 Titan Uranus

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:21 PM

Coutts used to be the best sailor in the world, but what we are looking at is the present AC. 
His arrogance and need to be recognised by the business world and refer to as CEO has delivered the results. 
Well... if we can call the mega failure AC34 is a result. 
 
He proved to be the worst manager you can imagine. He failed miserably where he wanted to excel. So the fact that he was a good sailor does not forgive his miserable acts. 



It seems to me problems have occurred several times in history when Russell has had aspirations to step up to any role above taking charge of a crew.
 
1997 - Russell is smacked down by his principal employers, TNZ, because of his strategy to finance his Match Race World Series team with money from companies operating in direct competition with sponsors of TNZ.
 
2000 - He & Brad had been lined up for years to take over TNZ following the 2000 event. When he arrived in the hot seat, he allegedly found the balance sheet weighed down by decisions made by previous management (NZD 10m of loans advanced by previous sponsors if I recall). Rather than worry about truth/lies & rights/wrongs of that situation, let's give him the benefit of the doubt & accept he was entitled in every way to throw his toys out of the pram. In today's context though, it is difficult to overlook that he was beginning a new cup cycle with committed sponsors on board. TNZ didn't fail in 2003 for lack of funding: the SAP deal they went on to do was massive compared to any money they had seen before - negotiated and secured, I might add, without the marquee names of Coutts & other Team Magic luminaries on board. Their departure to Alinghi with full knowledge of NZL-60 and the paranoia that ensued were much bigger factors in TNZ's collapse than insufficient funding.
 
2004 - Russell becomes disillusioned with Alinghi because the event management responsibilities he coveted, and which had allegedly been promised to him, did not materialise. In his absence, EB's first-choice management team produces the most watched, most commercially successful event in the history of sailing and the best match in 26 years - incidentally, again featuring by the TNZ team he found so beleaguered by deception back in 2000.
 
2007-2010 Finally, having attained the team CEO position that he coveted for more than a decade, he goes on to preside over the chief protagonists in one of the biggest debacles seen in professional sport, causing a destruction of goodwill that continues to cast a shadow over the franchise’s credibility.
 
2013 - The 35th America's Cup, an event built under his leadership and in substantial part on his vision for the (failed) World Sailing League, takes place.
 
There is no doubting his champion pedigree or, frankly, his integrity - arguably all of his key decisions have been based on strong principle and a belief that all parties should play within the rules. It’s not even that all of these situations are of his making – 2000, 2007, would appear not to be. It’s his lack of ability to form viable strategies and deal with adversity – both qualities that are fairly highly sought-after in CEO’s.

Ah hello!... come in spinner...

He won the last three AC with his strategies and dealing with adversity!!!

And team NZ did have huge funding issues when Barker failed to win a race against the superior Coutts. This was documented and Barker admitted he did NOT push hard enough to get what the team needed to be reliable. smacks confirmed this!

Ask Snacks why they only had ONE race fit mast... which broke.

Sorry to ruin you're spin with the facts

#35 casc27

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:24 PM

Lmao we are getting as bad as ..... Those whom shall remain nameless ..... Apart from Perterhuston of course

Actually, it's: "Those who shall remain namelss."

 

And ellipses are composed of three dots for omissions (you were only using them to indicated omitted text from a quote, I presume) within a sentence and 4 dots for omissions that span sentences. Although, non MLA style usages accept three dot ellipses for both. I think for now we will just omit consideration of leading and trailing spaces in the usage of ellipses.

 

(That was fun.)



#36 Titan Uranus

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:31 PM

Good stuff Americas Cup! Good to see you going all-in to supprt Russell and OR on a day when their stocks plunge to a record low. It's like you're writing a rave review of Enron the day before they collapse, or you're recommending short-stay holidays in Poland in 1939.
 
The reality is today Oracle are shitting all over their fans. They might as well be lining up all their fans and spraying them with untreated sewerage through high pressure hoses.
 
Nobody could plumb lower depths of treachery and ill-will. They cheated in a one-design regatta they instigated and made everyone enter who wanted to be in the Cup. The format of the event was flawed but they have now turned it to farce.
 
At the head of the enterprise were Larry Ellison and Russell Coutts. The responsibility for this situation sits squarely with them. 
 
Coutts was loved, revered even by Kiwis, for winning Olympic gold and then taking NZL32 to victory in San Diego. But for ten years now his success has been contingent on NZ failure. For NZ to prevail Russell must fail. His defiance of the country that made his reputation, his embarrassing attitude and the charmless arrogance he exhibits have polarised his former supporters against him.
 
Everything that is going down now in SF is 100% the responsibility of Russell and his team. It has nothing to do with ETNZ or LR. They have followed the rules and turned up to race.
 
So 'Americas Cup', whoever's sock-puppet you are (SWS?), I hope it's excrutiatingly painful for Oracle Racing tomorrow and I hope your day isn't too crappy standing in front of the giant Oracle poo hose with Russell.


you say EVERYTHING that is going down in the AC is Russ's fault!... well that statement alone blows your credibility 100%.

People like you should consider some facts.

The AC has been dominated by RC.

He won it he can do what he wants.

He has evolved the racing to boats I do not agree with but it has attracted a new interest.

He is a winner and the history will show that.

The rest of the world are chasing him.

Everything else said here is just yesterdays toilet paper.

Let the racing begin.

#37 jhec

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:37 PM

 

 

 


 

What's with the bagging of Russel Coutts?
Russ is nobodies bitch but maybe you all are his!... just by the way you guys make such stupid comments-.
This Guy is a legend and right now is the best AC helmsman in the sport. his achievement to start new teams to win the Cup, helm the boats and come up with new concepts is unequalled in the history of the event.
This guy is a still young and good enough to win a Volvo RTWR and is a qualified engineer.
He would have forgotten more than 99.9% of the people on this site will ever know. And the kiwis whom bag him only do so because they do not understand how TNZ (Blake, Sefton and Blackman) shafted him and MANY other kiwi team mates ( daubney, monk, Jones...)and he was forced to go to the Swiss.
Coutts is a sailing legend and will always be one. People who bag him on this site will never be remembered in the annuals of history and be forgotten as soon as they hit the coffin.
don,t bag winners. When you should be having a go at the rich "Gravey Trainers" whom extract millions from YOUR sport and produce pathetic outcomes for the sport. (IE - DB)
Let's face it if this cup had 3 challengers in the old 12 metre concept ( which in current economical conditions could be a possibility) you would all be pissed off a lot more than 3 challengers in theses boats! ( even though the racing is crap)
Russ is a true and proven legend. The rest have won nothing yet!!!
Of course Coutts is a legend, but he didn't have to go to the Swiss team, and take half his crew with him.
And before you keep going further in your mudslinging you can look up who helmed the NZ boat in race 5 in 2000, and while you are at it check if DB/GD has any other merits to their names. So haven't won nothing yet is maybe a bit much?
 
Btw: I'm not a Kiwi. 
wTF! Barker helmed the last race after Coutts already had the event in the bag

And GD,s only win is a whitbread.

barkers record is crap too! One laser regatta and a couple of match racing events.

Tidy up you act buddy and get the detail right.

As for going to the Swiss.., well after Messrs Blake, Sefton, and Blackman asset stripped TNZ and left poor old coutts with nothing coutts sought funding for TNZ from Berterelli. Blake and co then stopped this option and left coutts and 16 others with no option but to go with a team that could be adequately funded and win.

Dean Barker was to thick to see the writing on the wall. Raced a boat that was in a team with no money for new masts ( thus why they broke one),wasted time and effort on a Hula, relied on a bucket to keep a boat dry, and in the end failed to defend the cup and has failed to win it back.

The facts hurt but Barker, Dalton and co have eaten up millions ( now in their bank accounts)of dollars over nine years and in reality only really care about their retirement fund.

Meanwhile Russ and do ( were proven to have made the right call) went on to win and win and win and have never looked back.

TNZ failed and all thanks to three guys greed a dumb DB.

That's the facts,

Just for the record: http://en.wikipedia....ker_(yachtsman)

 

Summary of Sailing career[edit source | editbeta]
1988: P-Class Tanner Cup (1st), P-Class Tauranga Cup (1st)
1993: Asian Pacific Laser Champs (1st), NZ Matchracing Champs (1st), world Laser champs (10th)
1994: NZ Matchracing champs (1st)
1995: NZ Matchracing champs (1st)
1996: Finn class world ranking (5th), Olympic Finn class trials (5th), Kenwood Cup (3rd)
1997: Steinlager Line 7 Cup (2nd), NZ Matchracing champs (2nd), Sydney-Hobart (9th)
1998: Australia Cup (1st), ACI Cup Croatia (2nd), Swedish Match Cup (3rd), Kenwood Cup (1st)
2001: ISAF World Matchracing champs (1st)
2003: Skipper and helmsman of America's Cup defender Team New Zealand (beaten 0–5 by challenger Alinghi)
2004: Olympic Games, Finn class (13th)
2005: Congressional Cup (1st)
2006: MedCup TP52 circuit (2nd)
2007: Louis Vuitton Cup winner and America's Cup challenger (beaten 2–5 by defender Alinghi)
2009: Louis Vuitton Pacific Series (1st)
2009: Audi MedCup TP52 circuit (1st)
2010: Audi MedCup TP52 circuit (1st)
2010: Louis Vuitton Trophy (3 championship wins)
2011: America's Cup World Series

 

Grant Dalton: 

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Grant_Dalton

 

Grant Dalton has raced around the world seven times; the first five as part of the Whitbread Round the World Race later to be called the Volvo Ocean Race. This race has transformed itself during Grant's involvement from a race of adventurers to a grand prix yachting event. Here is a list of his participation
1981-82 Whitbread in Flyer II
1983 Southern Cross Cup
1985 Admiral's Cup
1985-86 Whitbread in Lion New Zealand
1987 Admiral's Cup
1989-90 Whitbread in Fisher & Paykel a Maxi Ketch designed by Farr Yacht Design
1991 Fastnet
1993-94 New Zealand Endeavour
1997-98 Merit Cup - Volvo Ocean 60
2001-02 Amer Sports One - Volvo Ocean 60 designed by German Frers

He then skippered and won the The Race a sprint around the world on maxi catamaran Club Med. The race started on 1 January 2001 and finished on 3 March. Club Med broke several records along the way including the distance sailed in 24 hours (656 nautical miles) and the fastest circumnavigation (62 days and 7 hours).

---

So who am I to say that these guys hav won nothing??? 

 

And I'm sure your record "Mr Americas Cup" is much better than this "crap".

I thought DB had a world youth championship as well - laser from memory.



#38 Titan Uranus

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:49 PM


 


don,t bag winners. When you should be having a go at the rich "Gravey Trainers" whom extract millions from YOUR sport and produce pathetic outcomes for the sport. (IE - DB)

Obvious troll to rattle Kiwi cages. Never mind, I have a little list. On you go.
nice! Another moron not to worry about... whoever you are :-)
 
Ahahaha.... AC you crack me up with your utter BS....your such a numpty...

That's cool. But why post a picture of you're missus?

#39 BooBoo

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:49 PM

Americas Cup - Are you the famous Kiwi they call  'Brownie'

 

Yup that him for sure, Graham Brown. 



#40 mad

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:59 PM


The Billionairre and his Boat Bitch have right royally screwed up this AC to the point that 5 days out from the Americas Cup final they dont have a boat that measures, and dont know who can sail it or who can fix it.
And of course the Billionairres Boat Bitch Russ think its all just a "ridiculous mistake".
Perhaps OTANZAC deserve a ridiculous punishment.
Personally, id have Jim Spit steer from a wicker crows nest mounted atop the wing.
Id have the shore crew sail the boat and the sailing team fix it.
Management will only be able to work at the next AC if they do two years as a fluffer first.
Those banned OTANZAC members must serve breakfast lunch and dinner at the ETNZ cafe for the duration of this cup. They must also serve as a fluffer for 4 years before they are allowed to sail again.
Because BA was not involved all other OTANZAC sailing crew must refer to him as Sir Ben Ains.......oh wait...
The AC34 film, television, book and merchanise rights (yes there will be a Jimmy Extreme Action Figure) are donated to ETNZ to fund future cup defences.

What's with the bagging of Russel Coutts?
Russ is nobodies bitch but maybe you all are his!... just by the way you guys make such stupid comments-.

This Guy is a legend and right now is the best AC helmsman in the sport. his achievement to start new teams to win the Cup, helm the boats and come up with new concepts is unequalled in the history of the event.

This guy is a still young and good enough to win a Volvo RTWR and is a qualified engineer.

He would have forgotten more than 99.9% of the people on this site will ever know. And the kiwis whom bag him only do so because they do not understand how TNZ (Blake, Sefton and Blackman) shafted him and MANY other kiwi team mates ( daubney, monk, Jones...)and he was forced to go to the Swiss.

Coutts is a sailing legend and will always be one. People who bag him on this site will never be remembered in the annuals of history and be forgotten as soon as they hit the coffin.

don,t bag winners. When you should be having a go at the rich "Gravey Trainers" whom extract millions from YOUR sport and produce pathetic outcomes for the sport. (IE - DB)

Let's face it if this cup had 3 challengers in the old 12 metre concept ( which in current economical conditions could be a possibility) you would all be pissed off a lot more than 3 challengers in theses boats! ( even though the racing is crap)

Russ is a true and proven legend. The rest have won nothing yet!!!
Did you have to take his dick out of your mouth and draw breath while typing that?

#41 Titan Uranus

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 10:14 PM

Americas Cup - Are you the famous Kiwi they call  'Brownie'

 
Yup that him for sure, Graham Brown. 


hey Josh. Love your'e interests! Listed They sure do give you're post some credability...fat boy!

cheers. marko

#42 Titan Uranus

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 10:16 PM



The Billionairre and his Boat Bitch have right royally screwed up this AC to the point that 5 days out from the Americas Cup final they dont have a boat that measures, and dont know who can sail it or who can fix it.
And of course the Billionairres Boat Bitch Russ think its all just a "ridiculous mistake".
Perhaps OTANZAC deserve a ridiculous punishment.
Personally, id have Jim Spit steer from a wicker crows nest mounted atop the wing.
Id have the shore crew sail the boat and the sailing team fix it.
Management will only be able to work at the next AC if they do two years as a fluffer first.
Those banned OTANZAC members must serve breakfast lunch and dinner at the ETNZ cafe for the duration of this cup. They must also serve as a fluffer for 4 years before they are allowed to sail again.
Because BA was not involved all other OTANZAC sailing crew must refer to him as Sir Ben Ains.......oh wait...
The AC34 film, television, book and merchanise rights (yes there will be a Jimmy Extreme Action Figure) are donated to ETNZ to fund future cup defences.

What's with the bagging of Russel Coutts?
Russ is nobodies bitch but maybe you all are his!... just by the way you guys make such stupid comments-.
This Guy is a legend and right now is the best AC helmsman in the sport. his achievement to start new teams to win the Cup, helm the boats and come up with new concepts is unequalled in the history of the event.
This guy is a still young and good enough to win a Volvo RTWR and is a qualified engineer.
He would have forgotten more than 99.9% of the people on this site will ever know. And the kiwis whom bag him only do so because they do not understand how TNZ (Blake, Sefton and Blackman) shafted him and MANY other kiwi team mates ( daubney, monk, Jones...)and he was forced to go to the Swiss.
Coutts is a sailing legend and will always be one. People who bag him on this site will never be remembered in the annuals of history and be forgotten as soon as they hit the coffin.
don,t bag winners. When you should be having a go at the rich "Gravey Trainers" whom extract millions from YOUR sport and produce pathetic outcomes for the sport. (IE - DB)
Let's face it if this cup had 3 challengers in the old 12 metre concept ( which in current economical conditions could be a possibility) you would all be pissed off a lot more than 3 challengers in theses boats! ( even though the racing is crap)
Russ is a true and proven legend. The rest have won nothing yet!!!
Did you have to take his dick out of your mouth and draw breath while typing that?
now that comment is a reflection of your interlect. Carry on... :-)

Anything Intelegent to offer.

#43 Calico Jack

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 10:20 PM

Good stuff Americas Cup! Good to see you going all-in to supprt Russell and OR on a day when their stocks plunge to a record low. It's like you're writing a rave review of Enron the day before they collapse, or you're recommending short-stay holidays in Poland in 1939.
 
The reality is today Oracle are shitting all over their fans. They might as well be lining up all their fans and spraying them with untreated sewerage through high pressure hoses.
 
Nobody could plumb lower depths of treachery and ill-will. They cheated in a one-design regatta they instigated and made everyone enter who wanted to be in the Cup. The format of the event was flawed but they have now turned it to farce.
 
At the head of the enterprise were Larry Ellison and Russell Coutts. The responsibility for this situation sits squarely with them. 
 
Coutts was loved, revered even by Kiwis, for winning Olympic gold and then taking NZL32 to victory in San Diego. But for ten years now his success has been contingent on NZ failure. For NZ to prevail Russell must fail. His defiance of the country that made his reputation, his embarrassing attitude and the charmless arrogance he exhibits have polarised his former supporters against him.
 
Everything that is going down now in SF is 100% the responsibility of Russell and his team. It has nothing to do with ETNZ or LR. They have followed the rules and turned up to race.
 
So 'Americas Cup', whoever's sock-puppet you are (SWS?), I hope it's excrutiatingly painful for Oracle Racing tomorrow and I hope your day isn't too crappy standing in front of the giant Oracle poo hose with Russell.


+1

#44 Kahlessa

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 10:34 PM

Lmao we are getting as bad as ..... Those whom shall remain nameless ..... Apart from Perterhuston of course

Actually, it's: "Those who shall remain namelss."
 
And ellipses are composed of three dots for omissions (you were only using them to indicated omitted text from a quote, I presume) within a sentence and 4 dots for omissions that span sentences. Although, non MLA style usages accept three dot ellipses for both. I think for now we will just omit consideration of leading and trailing spaces in the usage of ellipses.
 

(That was fun.)
+10

#45 snaerk

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:25 PM

Coutts coud hav redeemd himself if he had taken it on the chin,

 

grovelled appropryately, then got on with rallying the troops and being statesmanlyk   

 

Instead he keeps digging and cumz out looking not much better than Cheez. 



#46 jaysper

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:54 PM

Coutts coud hav redeemd himself if he had taken it on the chin,

 

grovelled appropryately, then got on with rallying the troops and being statesmanlyk   

 

Instead he keeps digging and cumz out looking not much better than Cheez. 

 

Right now I am thinking he looks worse than Cheese.

He is the CEO of the team and is unashamedly defending Oracle's actions whilst attacking the jury.

Arsehole!



#47 Lat35sowth

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:56 PM

A stinky stilton no less........



#48 minimumfuss

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:57 PM

Coutts coud hav redeemd himself if he had taken it on the chin,
 
grovelled appropryately, then got on with rallying the troops and being statesmanlyk   
 
Instead he keeps digging and cumz out looking not much better than Cheez. 

Yup. Criticising IJ is outrageous. He expressly made Oracle the RC show when he joined as CEO, it was his way or the highway he told LE after falling out with EB.
To now deny responsibility and claim it was his underlings is not CEO-like. Maybe he didn't know, but he shooda.

#49 JJD

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 02:13 AM

Well it seems that something a bit more light hearted doesnt tend to go down to well amongst this angry bunch.

Americas Cup, I have huge respect for Russ. He has gone down a couple of notches in this cup, not because of the cheating scandal but because he has come across as a whining snivelling complainer which still continues with his IJ decision outburst today. His record is unquestionable. I still have massive respect for him. I still think he should be a fluffer for the next two years.



#50 mosailn

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 02:50 AM



Main stream media starting to publish...

http://www.grindtv.c...n-americas-cup/

#51 zillafreak

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 02:56 AM

Dirk, you are a fucking idiot. Enjoy the time off. For a long time.



#52 Flatbag

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 03:21 AM

Can't believe Cheese could let himself get into a situation like that. The man has, or at least had, the highest credentials in the sport. Sad outcome. 

But as they say; If you lie down with DOGs, you get fleas.

 

At least no Americans were involved in the wrong-doings :P . Not that there are many involved in the whole show :lol:

Attached File  conspiracy-2.gif   9.44K   0 downloads



#53 Donjoman

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 07:01 AM

I think the penalty is fine... actually if you look at it... it is designed to add more sailing days to the 'Endless Summer of Racing'.....

 

Remember it does bring 'the game' into disrepute. ACWS was designed to warm up the crowd for this Summer of Racing (SOR). But the winners were cheaters... so they can only be penalised in the big match now.

 

it's seriously contrived, especially the admissions (and evidence) over emails and shore team checklists! WTF

 

I wonder if sailor X is LE himself lol... he is  'Afterguard'  hahaha



#54 uflux

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 07:13 AM

 


The Billionairre and his Boat Bitch have right royally screwed up this AC to the point that 5 days out from the Americas Cup final they dont have a boat that measures, and dont know who can sail it or who can fix it.
And of course the Billionairres Boat Bitch Russ think its all just a "ridiculous mistake".
Perhaps OTANZAC deserve a ridiculous punishment.
Personally, id have Jim Spit steer from a wicker crows nest mounted atop the wing.
Id have the shore crew sail the boat and the sailing team fix it.
Management will only be able to work at the next AC if they do two years as a fluffer first.
Those banned OTANZAC members must serve breakfast lunch and dinner at the ETNZ cafe for the duration of this cup. They must also serve as a fluffer for 4 years before they are allowed to sail again.
Because BA was not involved all other OTANZAC sailing crew must refer to him as Sir Ben Ains.......oh wait...
The AC34 film, television, book and merchanise rights (yes there will be a Jimmy Extreme Action Figure) are donated to ETNZ to fund future cup defences.

What's with the bagging of Russel Coutts?
Russ is nobodies bitch but maybe you all are his!... just by the way you guys make such stupid comments-.

This Guy is a legend and right now is the best AC helmsman in the sport. his achievement to start new teams to win the Cup, helm the boats and come up with new concepts is unequalled in the history of the event.

This guy is a still young and good enough to win a Volvo RTWR and is a qualified engineer.

He would have forgotten more than 99.9% of the people on this site will ever know. And the kiwis whom bag him only do so because they do not understand how TNZ (Blake, Sefton and Blackman) shafted him and MANY other kiwi team mates ( daubney, monk, Jones...)and he was forced to go to the Swiss.

Coutts is a sailing legend and will always be one. People who bag him on this site will never be remembered in the annuals of history and be forgotten as soon as they hit the coffin.

don,t bag winners. When you should be having a go at the rich "Gravey Trainers" whom extract millions from YOUR sport and produce pathetic outcomes for the sport. (IE - DB)

Let's face it if this cup had 3 challengers in the old 12 metre concept ( which in current economical conditions could be a possibility) you would all be pissed off a lot more than 3 challengers in theses boats! ( even though the racing is crap)

Russ is a true and proven legend. The rest have won nothing yet!!!
Did you have to take his dick out of your mouth and draw breath while typing that?

 

Classic... :D  :D  :D  :D



#55 vij

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 08:08 AM

The Billionairre and his Boat Bitch have right royally screwed up this AC to the point that 5 days out from the Americas Cup final they dont have a boat that measures, and dont know who can sail it or who can fix it.
And of course the Billionairres Boat Bitch Russ think its all just a "ridiculous mistake".
Perhaps OTANZAC deserve a ridiculous punishment.
Personally, id have Jim Spit steer from a wicker crows nest mounted atop the wing.
Id have the shore crew sail the boat and the sailing team fix it.
Management will only be able to work at the next AC if they do two years as a fluffer first.
Those banned OTANZAC members must serve breakfast lunch and dinner at the ETNZ cafe for the duration of this cup. They must also serve as a fluffer for 4 years before they are allowed to sail again.
Because BA was not involved all other OTANZAC sailing crew must refer to him as Sir Ben Ains.......oh wait...
The AC34 film, television, book and merchanise rights (yes there will be a Jimmy Extreme Action Figure) are donated to ETNZ to fund future cup defences.


What's with the bagging of Russel Coutts?
Russ is nobodies bitch but maybe you all are his!... just by the way you guys make such stupid comments-.

This Guy is a legend and right now is the best AC helmsman in the sport. his achievement to start new teams to win the Cup, helm the boats and come up with new concepts is unequalled in the history of the event.

 

Funny how "the best AC helmsman in the sport" has not been on any AC crew list since 2003. That is strange if he is the best AC helmsman in the sport.



#56 snaerk

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 08:28 AM

(just a wee hint, vij - you may not hav clicked but the person you are conversing with iz a troll so vile and transparent that for menny heer he went strait onto ignore with his ferst post)



#57 Liquid Assett NZ

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 08:38 AM

http://www.3news.co....68/Default.aspx



#58 dantnz

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 08:55 AM

Main stream media starting to publish...

http://www.grindtv.c...n-americas-cup/


Coutts' would be fined for comments like that in most sports. He should face another Rule 69 hearing for that. The man must be imploding.

#59 mad

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 09:03 AM

Main stream media starting to publish...

http://www.grindtv.c...n-americas-cup/


Coutts' would be fined for comments like that in most sports. He should face another Rule 69 hearing for that. The man must be imploding.

But his bank account must be close to overflowing ;)



#60 snaerk

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 09:29 AM

 

Main stream media starting to publish...

http://www.grindtv.c...n-americas-cup/


Coutts' would be fined for comments like that in most sports. He should face another Rule 69 hearing for that. The man must be imploding.

But his bank account must be close to overflowing ;)

The too condishunz are not necesserilly incompatibel - sum say that, in order to destroy a man, sum of the mor feendish gods make a pracktiss of first paying him mor than he iz werth.



#61 familysailor

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 04:41 PM

Main stream media starting to publish...

http://www.grindtv.c...n-americas-cup/

Main stream--???



#62 SW Sailor

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 06:20 PM

The Billionairre and his Boat Bitch have right royally screwed up this AC to the point that 5 days out from the Americas Cup final they dont have a boat that measures, and dont know who can sail it or who can fix it.

And of course the Billionairres Boat Bitch Russ think its all just a "ridiculous mistake".

Perhaps OTANZAC deserve a ridiculous punishment.

Personally, id have Jim Spit steer from a wicker crows nest mounted atop the wing.
Id have the shore crew sail the boat and the sailing team fix it.
Management will only be able to work at the next AC if they do two years as a fluffer first.
Those banned OTANZAC members must serve breakfast lunch and dinner at the ETNZ cafe for the duration of this cup. They must also serve as a fluffer for 4 years before they are allowed to sail again.
Because BA was not involved all other OTANZAC sailing crew must refer to him as Sir Ben Ains.......oh wait...
The AC34 film, television, book and merchanise rights (yes there will be a Jimmy Extreme Action Figure) are donated to ETNZ to fund future cup defences.

 

Ran across this, good for a laugh.

 

Reminds me of the Alinghi posters that made all sorts of noise before AC33 then vanished never to be seen again, at least not yet :)



#63 maxmini

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 07:51 PM


The Billionairre and his Boat Bitch have right royally screwed up this AC to the point that 5 days out from the Americas Cup final they dont have a boat that measures, and dont know who can sail it or who can fix it.

And of course the Billionairres Boat Bitch Russ think its all just a "ridiculous mistake".

Perhaps OTANZAC deserve a ridiculous punishment.

Personally, id have Jim Spit steer from a wicker crows nest mounted atop the wing.
Id have the shore crew sail the boat and the sailing team fix it.
Management will only be able to work at the next AC if they do two years as a fluffer first.
Those banned OTANZAC members must serve breakfast lunch and dinner at the ETNZ cafe for the duration of this cup. They must also serve as a fluffer for 4 years before they are allowed to sail again.
Because BA was not involved all other OTANZAC sailing crew must refer to him as Sir Ben Ains.......oh wait...
The AC34 film, television, book and merchanise rights (yes there will be a Jimmy Extreme Action Figure) are donated to ETNZ to fund future cup defences.

 
Ran across this, good for a laugh.
 
Reminds me of the Alinghi posters that made all sorts of noise before AC33 then vanished never to be seen again, at least not yet :)

It's probably too late now but as the races were winding down I was thinking of starting a list of possible posters we would most likely never hear from again . This guy would have been towards the top of the list :)

#64 SW Sailor

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 08:17 PM

 


The Billionairre and his Boat Bitch have right royally screwed up this AC to the point that 5 days out from the Americas Cup final they dont have a boat that measures, and dont know who can sail it or who can fix it.

And of course the Billionairres Boat Bitch Russ think its all just a "ridiculous mistake".

Perhaps OTANZAC deserve a ridiculous punishment.

Personally, id have Jim Spit steer from a wicker crows nest mounted atop the wing.
Id have the shore crew sail the boat and the sailing team fix it.
Management will only be able to work at the next AC if they do two years as a fluffer first.
Those banned OTANZAC members must serve breakfast lunch and dinner at the ETNZ cafe for the duration of this cup. They must also serve as a fluffer for 4 years before they are allowed to sail again.
Because BA was not involved all other OTANZAC sailing crew must refer to him as Sir Ben Ains.......oh wait...
The AC34 film, television, book and merchanise rights (yes there will be a Jimmy Extreme Action Figure) are donated to ETNZ to fund future cup defences.

 
Ran across this, good for a laugh.
 
Reminds me of the Alinghi posters that made all sorts of noise before AC33 then vanished never to be seen again, at least not yet :)

It's probably too late now but as the races were winding down I was thinking of starting a list of possible posters we would most likely never hear from again . This guy would have been towards the top of the list :)

 

Posters for rent is a big business in NZ and Switzerland.

 

It's like they brought them in on a bus from another town to make a bunch of noise, then packed them up and sent them home after race 19, although they gained religion in race 8 with the cries for "hydro, hydro", and stopped beating their chests at about the 8 to 3 scoreline.



#65 maxmini

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 10:02 PM


 



The Billionairre and his Boat Bitch have right royally screwed up this AC to the point that 5 days out from the Americas Cup final they dont have a boat that measures, and dont know who can sail it or who can fix it.

And of course the Billionairres Boat Bitch Russ think its all just a "ridiculous mistake".

Perhaps OTANZAC deserve a ridiculous punishment.

Personally, id have Jim Spit steer from a wicker crows nest mounted atop the wing.
Id have the shore crew sail the boat and the sailing team fix it.
Management will only be able to work at the next AC if they do two years as a fluffer first.
Those banned OTANZAC members must serve breakfast lunch and dinner at the ETNZ cafe for the duration of this cup. They must also serve as a fluffer for 4 years before they are allowed to sail again.
Because BA was not involved all other OTANZAC sailing crew must refer to him as Sir Ben Ains.......oh wait...
The AC34 film, television, book and merchanise rights (yes there will be a Jimmy Extreme Action Figure) are donated to ETNZ to fund future cup defences.

 
Ran across this, good for a laugh.
 
Reminds me of the Alinghi posters that made all sorts of noise before AC33 then vanished never to be seen again, at least not yet :)
It's probably too late now but as the races were winding down I was thinking of starting a list of possible posters we would most likely never hear from again . This guy would have been towards the top of the list :)
 
Posters for rent is a big business in NZ and Switzerland.
 
It's like they brought them in on a bus from another town to make a bunch of noise, then packed them up and sent them home after race 19, although they gained religion in race 8 with the cries for "hydro, hydro", and stopped beating their chests at about the 8 to 3 scoreline.
Some of the more highly entertaining reading on here is the " eight in a row ? " thread . Seeing the tone change and then the less frequent posts offered up from a certain area of the planet was as they say , priceless :)

#66 SW Sailor

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 10:26 PM

Missed most of that thread as I was traveling - here is a classic from another that belongs on the list;

 

http://forums.sailin...50746&p=4311901



#67 SW Sailor

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 11:55 PM

Thread of one day... :)

 


Here's a classic -



#68 aldo

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 11:58 PM

Remember the North Korean guy?

 

Some classic bullshit there.



#69 maxmini

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:43 AM

From another pair of past " experts " :)

 

 

I wonder which odds are longer, OR taking 8 straight or NZ capsizing...

 

About the same.  The only way Oracle will win 8 straight is if ETNZ capsize.



#70 SW Sailor

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 05:04 AM

Remember the North Korean guy?

 

Some classic bullshit there.

 

Where is flat top fat face anyway ? I'm sure he's from N Korea, and probably dates Snow White and the seven dwarfs too.

 

He still owes me the name of his hair stylist.



#71 lungcathai

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 12:09 PM

Ran across this, good for a laugh.

 

Reminds me of the Alinghi posters that made all sorts of noise before AC33 then vanished never to be seen again, at least not yet :)

 

We're still around, mind you. However I see absolutely nothing even slightly interesting to respond to. So many nutters on this Forum now (you included), they wouldn't even find a white plastic chair in an empty tent!

 

Just utterly boring



#72 ~Stingray~

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 09:43 PM

from
http://www.sail-worl...e-Ridder/116080
---
Unofficial sources are reporting that the Dutch national sailing authority has decided not to take any further action against Dirk de Ridder (NED) following an adverse report by the International Jury during the 34th America's Cup.

The Appeals body (the Zeilraad) established by the de Ridder's national authority to hear such matters, is reported as stating in its conclusion: 'further considered that being excluded from further participation in any role in the 34 Americas Cup for a gross breach of a rule and of good sportsmanship, combined with the world wide publicity on TV/radio, Internet and newspapers, is by itself, a severe penalty.

#73 Alpha FB

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 06:27 AM

Straight from the horse's mouth:

 

http://www.waterspor...ak 23102013.pdf



#74 Presuming Ed

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 07:00 AM

Under-the-Rug.jpg



#75 Alpha FB

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 09:44 PM

Why? Do you seriously think the Dutch had any better chance at uncovering something significant a month after the conclusion of the event,than the IJ had during?

#76 PeterHuston

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 10:25 PM

Under-the-Rug.jpg

 

What are you suggesting is being swept under the carpet?



#77 Francis Vaughan

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 12:37 AM

The point about the Dutch body's decision is that the AC's jury only had the power to impose penalties relative to the AC34 contest, and could not impose any penalty beyond that.  However the ISAF and national bodies can impose penalties in sailing in general, and could have banned DdR from any competitive sailing for any amount of time.  Their job was not necessarily to act as a further investigative body, they took the AC IJ's report as it is, although they could have taken further evidence.  But what their job primarily was, was to decide whether to impose any further penalty.  They decided not to even think about it.

 

The arguments will rage about any behind the scenes arm twisting and influence pedalling that went on.  Some people believe that DdR was stitched up as the fall guy, and this was why the Dutch decided not to take it further.  Some may believe that the Dutch were simply not of a mind to penalise to one of their own stars. Or one could be charitable, and take the report to be exactly truthful. Not doing anything has the look of ducking the issue.  Their report suggests that they were not happy with being given the job of imposing any penalty, and they were not comfortable with the findings of the AC - or at least were looking for ways to mitigate the findings - they include this "is aware that it has only limited knowledge of all evidence presented and used by the AC jury." Clearly they are sending the message that they didn't think the AC IJ's report was airtight, and are using this as an excuse to duck the issue.

 

Personally I suspect there has been a lot of worry and thinking behind the scenes, and the decision was made to avoid any further fallout, and indeed to sweep the question under the rug.  Given the penalties handed out to lesser cheats, DdR has got off lightly.  However his career will have taken a very significant injury.  So penalties handed out to amateur sailors in the past are not fully comparable.  I can't say I'm exactly happy with this outcome.  It does set the tone that star pros are exempt from sanction, which isn't good.



#78 PeterHuston

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 01:12 AM

The point about the Dutch body's decision is that the AC's jury only had the power to impose penalties relative to the AC34 contest, and could not impose any penalty beyond that.  However the ISAF and national bodies can impose penalties in sailing in general, and could have banned DdR from any competitive sailing for any amount of time.  Their job was not necessarily to act as a further investigative body, they took the AC IJ's report as it is, although they could have taken further evidence.  But what their job primarily was, was to decide whether to impose any further penalty.  They decided not to even think about it.

 

The arguments will rage about any behind the scenes arm twisting and influence pedalling that went on.  Some people believe that DdR was stitched up as the fall guy, and this was why the Dutch decided not to take it further.  Some may believe that the Dutch were simply not of a mind to penalise to one of their own stars. Or one could be charitable, and take the report to be exactly truthful. Not doing anything has the look of ducking the issue.  Their report suggests that they were not happy with being given the job of imposing any penalty, and they were not comfortable with the findings of the AC - or at least were looking for ways to mitigate the findings - they include this "is aware that it has only limited knowledge of all evidence presented and used by the AC jury." Clearly they are sending the message that they didn't think the AC IJ's report was airtight, and are using this as an excuse to duck the issue.

 

Personally I suspect there has been a lot of worry and thinking behind the scenes, and the decision was made to avoid any further fallout, and indeed to sweep the question under the rug.  Given the penalties handed out to lesser cheats, DdR has got off lightly.  However his career will have taken a very significant injury.  So penalties handed out to amateur sailors in the past are not fully comparable.  I can't say I'm exactly happy with this outcome.  It does set the tone that star pros are exempt from sanction, which isn't good.

 

There seems to be the assumption that this IJ's findings are a result of appropriate due process for all sailors.  I wonder if there truly was appropriate due process.

 

Then there is the fact that the Dutch MNA is caught in the crossfire of having a Judge from their country ruling on a sailor from their country.  Sort of a no win for them to do much of anything.  Easiest thing for them was to do nothing.

 

Now we move on to ISAF.

 

I wonder if this will end up in the CAS.



#79 crashdog

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 07:54 AM

Well, I see the " only limited knowledge of all evidence presented and used by the AC jury" language as a significant criticism, as much as possible in the highly politicised environment of international sport, of the AC jury action.  It is one of those veiled messages.  Mind you, I am looking for this message, for any message, that points to an AC IJ process that appears to have been deeply flawed.  I don't know, or even hardly know of, DDR (no not east germany, you fooking spook), but I was pretty appalled at the procedure followed. 



#80 dogwatch

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 08:31 AM

I wonder if this will end up in the CAS.

 

Jurisdiction?

 

This isn't the Olympics.



#81 dogwatch

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 08:40 AM

Well, I see the " only limited knowledge of all evidence presented and used by the AC jury" language as a significant criticism, as much as possible in the highly politicised environment of international sport, of the AC jury action.  It is one of those veiled messages.  Mind you, I am looking for this message, for any message, that points to an AC IJ process that appears to have been deeply flawed.  I don't know, or even hardly know of, DDR (no not east germany, you fooking spook), but I was pretty appalled at the procedure followed. 

 

Why?



#82 dogwatch

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 08:47 AM

Given the penalties handed out to lesser cheats, DdR has got off lightly.

 

It's too early to say that. ISAF is yet to decide what action, if any, to take. Given the penalties handed out for other measurement rule offences, it will be pretty surprising if there is no further sanction against DDR.

 

Gladwell says:

 

The decision of the Zeilraad, being a Decision to take no further action, cannot be reported to the International Sailing Federation, as the prescriptions of Rule 69 under the America's Cup Racing Rules of Sailing are different in this regard from the RRS that the rest of the sailing world operates under, where a decision not to take action would still have to be reported to the International Sailing Federation who then has the option of further action or to accept the National Authorities Decision.

 

But that doesn't really pass the "so what" test because the IJ will have already referred the matter to ISAF (RRS AC 69.1.c) which may investigate further (69.2a) and suspend ISAF eligibility (69.3).



#83 Alpha FB

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 08:58 AM

The point about the Dutch body's decision is that the AC's jury only had the power to impose penalties relative to the AC34 contest, and could not impose any penalty beyond that.  However the ISAF and national bodies can impose penalties in sailing in general, and could have banned DdR from any competitive sailing for any amount of time.  Their job was not necessarily to act as a further investigative body, they took the AC IJ's report as it is, although they could have taken further evidence.  But what their job primarily was, was to decide whether to impose any further penalty.  They decided not to even think about it.

 

The arguments will rage about any behind the scenes arm twisting and influence pedalling that went on.  Some people believe that DdR was stitched up as the fall guy, and this was why the Dutch decided not to take it further.  Some may believe that the Dutch were simply not of a mind to penalise to one of their own stars. Or one could be charitable, and take the report to be exactly truthful. Not doing anything has the look of ducking the issue.  Their report suggests that they were not happy with being given the job of imposing any penalty, and they were not comfortable with the findings of the AC - or at least were looking for ways to mitigate the findings - they include this "is aware that it has only limited knowledge of all evidence presented and used by the AC jury." Clearly they are sending the message that they didn't think the AC IJ's report was airtight, and are using this as an excuse to duck the issue.

 

Personally I suspect there has been a lot of worry and thinking behind the scenes, and the decision was made to avoid any further fallout, and indeed to sweep the question under the rug.  Given the penalties handed out to lesser cheats, DdR has got off lightly.  However his career will have taken a very significant injury.  So penalties handed out to amateur sailors in the past are not fully comparable.  I can't say I'm exactly happy with this outcome.  It does set the tone that star pros are exempt from sanction, which isn't good.

It's just for the reason bolded above that they are not in a position to judge wether additional sanctions are warranted.  The opportunity to gather additional information is long gone by now.

 

Furthermore, for a professional sailor having his career taking a 'significant injury' is a severe punishment, that he may never recover from, certainly at the level of the AC, but also way beyond that.  Even beer can racing, he will always be remembered as the guy who got banned from racing in the AC just days before the start...

 

It seems this decision was the only one they could take...



#84 Presuming Ed

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 10:20 AM

Why? Do you seriously think the Dutch had any better chance at uncovering something significant a month after the conclusion of the event,than the IJ had during?

 

Because in the judgement given by the IJ, they recommended that 2 of the five receive no further penalty, but specifically noted that MNAs and ISAF may impose further penalties on Walker  & de Ridder

 

105. Bryce Ruthenberg Bryce Ruthenberg... Jury will recommend that no further action be taken.
 
106. Andrew Walker...which bodies may impose further penalties.
 
107. Kyle Langford ...The Jury is not required to make a report to any federation.
 
108. Matt Mitchell M... the Jury will recommend that no further action be taken.
 
109. Dirk de Ridder ... which bodies may impose further penalties.


#85 Alpha FB

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 11:28 AM

The Zeilraad mentions the following points:

 

  • noticed the different recommendations by the AC Jury, regarding the four penalized persons;
  • noticed from studies in the archives of appeal cases only one remotely resembles this case, no further reference could be found;
  • is aware that it has only limited knowledge of all evidence presented and used by the AC jury.

I interpret this as:

  • yes we are aware that DdR's case has been referred to us for further consideration
  • we have practically no comparable experience in similar circumstances
  • in any case, we haven't been given a full picture of the background to the decision of the AC Jury

 

To me this clearly boils down to 'we have not enough information to judge wether or not further sanctions may be warranted'



#86 PeterHuston

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 03:53 PM

I wonder if this will end up in the CAS.

 

Jurisdiction?

 

This isn't the Olympics.

 

I don't profess to be an expert on CAS...but I'm fairly certain that Dirk could take it there.  Whether it meets all the criteria, I'm not sure.

 

 

http://www.tas-cas.o...-0-1010-13-0-0/



#87 dogwatch

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 04:40 PM

^

 

I am not an expert either but it doesn't look that way to me. http://en.wikipedia....ation_for_Sport

 

Jurisdiction and appeals

Generally speaking, a dispute may be submitted to the CAS only if there is an arbitration agreement between the parties which specifies recourse to the CAS. According to rule 61 of the Olympic Charter all disputes in connection with the Olympic Games can only be submitted to CAS.[1]

 

Hence a disputed IJ decision at Qingdao was taken to the CAS but otherwise, the CAS has nothing to do with sailing governance where IJ decisions are non-appealable.

 

See also http://www.tas-cas.o...-0-1010-13-0-0/

 

Under what conditions will the CAS intervene ?

For a dispute to be submitted to arbitration by the CAS, the parties must agree to this in writing. Such agreement may be on a one-off basis or appear in a contract or the statutes or regulations of a sports organization. Parties may agree in advance to submit any future dispute to arbitration by the CAS, or they can agree to have recourse to the CAS after a dispute has arisen.



#88 Presuming Ed

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 05:57 PM

Clear as mud. 

 

UNDER WHAT CONDITIONS WILL THE CAS INTERVENE ?

For a dispute to be submitted to arbitration by the CAS, the parties must agree to this in writing. Such agreement may be on a one-off basis or appear in a contract or the statutes or regulations of a sports organization. Parties may agree in advance to submit any future dispute to arbitration by the CAS, or they can agree to have recourse to the CAS after a dispute has arisen. 



#89 dogwatch

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 06:25 PM

^

 

What's not clear?

 

The Olympic charter provides for resolution of disputes by the CAS. RRS (AC edition or otherwise) doesn't. The AC34 protocol doesn't. If ISAF and DDR agree "let's go to the CAS" then they can but nobody can make them do so.



#90 SW Sailor

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:09 PM

Good stuff Americas Cup! Good to see you going all-in to supprt Russell and OR on a day when their stocks plunge to a record low. It's like you're writing a rave review of Enron the day before they collapse, or you're recommending short-stay holidays in Poland in 1939.
 
The reality is today Oracle are shitting all over their fans. They might as well be lining up all their fans and spraying them with untreated sewerage through high pressure hoses.
 
Nobody could plumb lower depths of treachery and ill-will. They cheated in a one-design regatta they instigated and made everyone enter who wanted to be in the Cup. The format of the event was flawed but they have now turned it to farce.
 
At the head of the enterprise were Larry Ellison and Russell Coutts. The responsibility for this situation sits squarely with them. 
 
Coutts was loved, revered even by Kiwis, for winning Olympic gold and then taking NZL32 to victory in San Diego. But for ten years now his success has been contingent on NZ failure. For NZ to prevail Russell must fail. His defiance of the country that made his reputation, his embarrassing attitude and the charmless arrogance he exhibits have polarised his former supporters against him.
 
Everything that is going down now in SF is 100% the responsibility of Russell and his team. It has nothing to do with ETNZ or LR. They have followed the rules and turned up to race.
 
So 'Americas Cup', whoever's sock-puppet you are (SWS?), I hope it's excrutiatingly painful for Oracle Racing tomorrow and I hope your day isn't too crappy standing in front of the giant Oracle poo hose with Russell.


+1

 

Probably about time to recycle this classic just for posterity. Well done boys.

 

Not enough crow to go around for this post :)  



#91 SW Sailor

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:38 PM

Coutts used to be the best sailor in the world, but what we are looking at is the present AC. 

His arrogance and need to be recognised by the business world and refer to as CEO has delivered the results. 

Well... if we can call the mega failure AC34 is a result. 

 

He proved to be the worst manager you can imagine. He failed miserably where he wanted to excel. So the fact that he was a good sailor does not forgive his miserable acts. 

 

And as long as crow is the entree, please order an extra large portion from the galley for one of RC's biggest fans, Mr. Skidmark himself :)



#92 ~Stingray~

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:48 PM

^ Yep, it was interesting when an NZ reporter asked LE about RC's future, told (and actually misquoted RC) LE that RC was worried about his job. LE's response was to praise RC for a litany of contributions, including to the comeback after his deciding that 'It makes no sense why we can't be faster than them upwind,' and then said 'RC has his job for as long as he wants it, he's our leader.' The endorsement could not have been stronger.

#93 SW Sailor

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:50 PM

(yes there will be a Jimmy Extreme Action Figure)

Does it come with a model F18? I believe some little girls like dolls that wee. Does Jimmy puke?

In rigorous research for this post, I read http://www.sail-worl...d=0&tickerCID=0 and found myself wondering, is there an "Eject, eject, eject" procedure from an OTUSA contract?

 

No F18, but in case you haven't noticed it comes with a small trophy :)

 

And please keep searching for the "eject, eject, eject" procedure. Let me know how that works out.



#94 ~Stingray~

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:54 PM

Not my favorite subject but in revisiting posts and predictions (that thread about the odds of an OR comeback is worth a re-live) one guy I will make stick a little jab into the ribs for is Indio, he of the ugly-rumor mongering. When ETNZ was walloping OR early on he kept wishing OR would improve, win a few races, apparently to keep the entertainment of OR's pain going. Boy did that one work out!

#95 SW Sailor

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:57 PM

Not my favorite subject but in revisiting posts and predictions (that thread about the odds of an OR comeback is worth a re-live) one guy I will make just stick little jab into the ribs for is Indio. When ETNZ was walloping OR early on he kept wishing OR would improve, win a few races, apparently to keep the entertainment of OR's pain going. Boy did that one work out!

 

Hopefully he's a scratch golfer by now and is beating his competitors to death with homophobic insults :)



#96 SW Sailor

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:58 PM

They can refund my travel costs too

 

Did you get your travel costs refunded, by ET ?



#97 ~Stingray~

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 10:03 PM

^^ And scratching his own head and balls a lot..

Guys like DB didn't need the likes of Indio continually spreading muck like he and, often, kiwi_john did; they were not alone but it was a years-long discredit to the campaign.

#98 SW Sailor

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:42 AM

^^ And scratching his own head and balls a lot..

Guys like DB didn't need the likes of Indio continually spreading muck like he and, often, kiwi_john did; they were not alone but it was a years-long discredit to the campaign.

 

And guys like TK constantly harping on the superiority of kiwi culture, taniwha nonsense and constantly putting grumpy on a pedestal made their SA cheering section look pretty foolish.

 

I initially questioned the comments about grumpy fooling around with his assistant, but I heard this past weekend from people in the city that their apparently was some validity to the story - apparently caught by her boyfriend who was also here. Wonder if that's why he missed a few races  :)  I guess what happens in SF doesn't necessarily stay in SF.   



#99 pusslicker

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:51 AM

Not my favorite subject but in revisiting posts and predictions (that thread about the odds of an OR comeback is worth a re-live) one guy I will make just stick little jab into the ribs for is Indio. When ETNZ was walloping OR early on he kept wishing OR would improve, win a few races, apparently to keep the entertainment of OR's pain going. Boy did that one work out!

 

Hopefully he's a scratch golfer by now and is beating his competitors to death with homophobic insults :)

Indio seemed like a classic closet case. Maybe he found himself in SF.



#100 SW Sailor

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 03:29 AM

 

Not my favorite subject but in revisiting posts and predictions (that thread about the odds of an OR comeback is worth a re-live) one guy I will make just stick little jab into the ribs for is Indio. When ETNZ was walloping OR early on he kept wishing OR would improve, win a few races, apparently to keep the entertainment of OR's pain going. Boy did that one work out!

 

Hopefully he's a scratch golfer by now and is beating his competitors to death with homophobic insults :)

Indio seemed like a classic closet case. Maybe he found himself in SF.

 

He definitely carries alot more Samsonite than the rest of us. Who knows what's in it.






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