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Power boat wake - common sense


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#1 Bull City

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:15 PM

I'd be interested in what you folks think of this.

 

The other day, I was returning to my slip under power (J22 with 2HP). I was about 150 yards from the No Wake zone. There was a 30-35 foot power boat leaving the marina, and the second he passed the No Wake zone, he went to flank speed. He created a monstrous bow wave.

 

At this time, my crew was on the foredeck getting the dock lines ready. Fortunately, I had time to warn my crew, (my 57-year-old sister) to hold on, and steered for the wake.

 

No one was hurt and nothing was damaged, but I think something should be said to this guy. Even though he was out of the No Wake zone, he showed a lack of awareness of what was going on around him and a lack of judgement. There were two other sailboats in the area headed into the marina, one smaller than me, furling sails, the other a 35 footer.

 

I spoke to the fellow on the 35-footer and he agreed. He was also concerned that the power boater was causing unnecessary erosion on the banks of the lake - it's kind of a narrow stretch at that point.

 

I know the boat; I walk past it on the way to my slip. I don't know him, so I give him the benefit of the doubt. Was he wrong? Should I say something to him? What should I say?



#2 Bump-n-Grind

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:28 PM

You might consider printing  out the red text and taping it to his boat where he'll see it while boarding.

I found some other verbiage to the same effect by googling "are you responsible for your wake"

 

Yelling "Slow Down Asshole" tends to not have the desired effect :ph34r:

 

Controlling Your Wake

The wake created by a boat may endanger inexperienced boaters, persons swimming, or wading anglers. For example, a boat's wake may rock, swamp, or capsize other boats. Passengers also may be thrown off balance or overboard, leading to serious injury.

No matter how large or small your wake, you may be held responsible for any damage or personal injury it causes. To avoid the expense of repairing another person's boat or paying their medical bills, limit your wake by slowing down.

  • As you travel, look behind your vessel to check your wake. If it is rocking boats or crashing against the shoreline, you are creating too much wake.
  • Watch out for and be considerate of small vessels such as canoes and kayaks.
  • Slow down before:
    • Meeting and overtaking other boats
    • Entering posted speed zones and narrow channels
  • Leave as much space as possible between your vessel and others that you meet or overtake.

Unreasonable wakes also cause erosion of the shoreline, damaging important habitat.



#3 MidPack

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:40 PM

If you want to confront/accuse him, it won't help so why bother?

He should know better, so there's no harm in politely explaining the importance of "no wake" beyond no wake zones in consideration of other boats. If you say nothing, a positive outcome is more unlikely than if you do. As long as you realize going in that he may still not take it constructively (and that may quickly become apparent), there's no real downside. At that point you've done what you can...move on.

Some boaters mean well, some don't - like peeps in general. That will never change.

#4 DISHONEST ASSHOLE

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:49 PM

Another option is to ask your local marine police enforcement to have an informal talk with the guy.

Have done this a few times especially with commercial boats in a  hurry to get in and out of

our harbor. Works better than the usual verbal direct exchanges 



#5 Greyhound37

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:52 PM

We have a 45' powerboat. Understanding first hand what dicks some boat operators can be I slow down to 6 knots even in open water when overtaking or crossing paths with a small boat power or sail. Most operators are courteous but others need some education.

A part time delivery Captain was a (recently retired) DNR police as a full time job. One early morning while dressed in coat and tie, badge on the belt and a 9mm on his hip he ran a 25' boat into the Severn then Annapolis Harbor. A 60' S/F almost cut him in half at the mouth of the river. The Captain had the boat on AP while he organized his dock lines and came way too close. As luck would have it they both docked at the same marina shortly after that incident.

The look on the S/F captains face when the DNR cop announced he was running the "target" boat was priceless .  



#6 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 03:06 PM

Responsibility for the wake remains, no wake zone or not.  I have both Sail and Power boats and there is plenty of room for improvement on both sides.  Many sailboat drivers seem to be clueless in "transition zones".  Some powerboat drivers actually try to minimize wakes when passing sailboats or will alter course to try to minimize impact.  I'd try Bump's approach but be aware you might find out that the guy is an asshole and make the problem worse.  

 

As to the erosion aspect, most authorities take that into consideration when setting no wake zones.  I have attended and spoken at "no wake" hearings in MD and I was impressed by the approach taken.  Safety was #1.  Erosion counted.  In general, the attitude was to not restrict speed (and thereby wake) unless there were compelling reasons to do it.  Natural Resources Police were present and spoke to safety incidents (or lack thereof) and comments were solicited from any interested boaters.  

 

If there is a safety issue, you might approach the local authorities and ask them to step up patrols at certain times and relate your story.  A safety stop and warning that "yes, it's not a no wake zone but your operation was nevertheless risky" might be a good reminder that being out of the no wake zone isn't enough.  On the other hand, it's a constricted area where boats will be transitioning to or from a plane.  Maybe good seamanship is to get your dock lines ready before the "transition area" knowing that there is risk there.  



#7 Steam Flyer

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 03:18 PM

I hate to be a cynic ("the capacity for accurate observation is often termed "cynicism" by those who don't have it") but it's likely that this guy already knows he's being an asshole; and either doesn't care or actually enjoys it.

 

An option is to get some 10' lengths of floating line to toss in his path.

 

Unwinding one or two from his prop might convince him that getting along with his neighbors is a good.

 

FB- Doug



#8 Fat Point Jack

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 03:29 PM

Watch the Progressive Insurance commercial.  When Flo sees "Sea Hag" she proceeds to nail the throttle and create a wake in the marina.

 

I hope that she has insurance.



#9 Somebody Else

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 03:56 PM

He may indeed be a discourteous asshole, but he was within the letter of the law.

In our harbor it is fully expected for every single powered vessel to accelerate to warp speed the instant the transom clears the no-wake zone. To give you an example of the mental orientation of our Harbor Department, it's zoned 5 MPH not 5 knots, because WTF is a knot, right? A knot is how you tie your Tiara to the dock.

 

As a result, on most days, the mouth of the harbor is the most chopped-up, random, disturbed, rough seas you will encounter all day. Many small boats take some water on board. The occupants of the little rental boats -- sail and power both -- who have been told "Do Not Leave The Harbor" but have rebelliously chosen to venture out anyway -- are terrified to paralysis -- deer-in-the-headlights.

 

On the other hand, every time I sail, I see irresponsible sailors cut off power-boaters with the "sail has right-of-way over power" snobbery on full display, even going so far as to yell at the power-boaters. That is certain to "grow the sport", mate. Here's how the power-boater sees that:

  • For some reason, the sailboat is not going straight down the harbor; they are zig-zagging back and forth for no reason, making abrupt turns without any warning. The power-boat operators don't know about tacking or wind direction. Why don't those idiots go straight in these constricted channels?
  • For some reason, the sailboat is playing chicken with me by getting as close to me as possible without hitting me. The power-boaters can not know that the sailor is making a tactical decision and is in very fine control of the boat.
  • Most sailors I observe make zero attempt to communicate their intentions to any power-boater. Simple hand-gestures showing your intended route go a long way toward easing the anxiety of the power-boat skipper. The flip side of that is that many sailors out there are so clueless, that predicting where they will be in 10 seconds or 30 seconds or 2 minutes is simply beyond their ability. Witness the starts at the the back half of your local racing fleet.


#10 SloopJonB

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 04:17 PM

The words "Common Sense" in the title is where this thread fails.



#11 DrewR

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 04:23 PM

Wow this topic is funny. I had a big Tiara do this a couple of weeks ago. I had just passed the no wake buoy on a pretty busy weekend afternoon the leaving the harbor when the motor boat dickhead blasted the throttles literally at the no wake buoy disregarding my 35' sailboat boat and the little daysailor and a 12 1/2 he nearly swamped. It was so bad the following big assed motor boat went by and apologized to all the boats in the area FOR the dickhead. 

 

I, of course, flipped him the bird as he passed and his trailer park fat ass GF/wife immediately jumped up (stumbled actually) and gave me the double bird back. Wish I had it on film, it was pretty funny. 



#12 Bulbhunter

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 05:13 PM

Another option is to ask your local marine police enforcement to have an informal talk with the guy.

Have done this a few times especially with commercial boats in a  hurry to get in and out of

our harbor. Works better than the usual verbal direct exchanges 

This is called directed boater EDU where authorities are informed of someone who needs some basic EDU and they pay them a visit. We do the same thing here in our town with the local police and people who think driving 45mph through 25mph neighborhoods and school zones is some how acceptable. Police love it they pay visits to the offenders at home around 8pm and have a little talk with them regarding their lacking driving skills.



#13 Bulbhunter

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 05:15 PM

Watch the Progressive Insurance commercial.  When Flo sees "Sea Hag" she proceeds to nail the throttle and create a wake in the marina.

 

I hope that she has insurance.

LOL I was wondering if anyone caught that? I was laughing and thinking nice one Progressive I wonder if the marina gave them special approval for the commercial? Some how I doubt it.



#14 auggie

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 06:09 PM

We're moored just about at the end of our fairway and about 3 boats to the 5MPH/no wake sign.  Powerboats regularly blast by going in OR out.  That's going up the fairway.  Others seem to think if their not in the fairway, the limit doesn't apply so they'll weave through the fleet which includes alot of small sailboats without engines, kayaks, paddleboards etc at maximum wake speed .  Simply solution is to have one of the 4 or 5 boats the HMaster has simply grab a mooring at the end of the fleet and slow down the boats at least during peak times.  We're highly tidal and most boaters go in and out around the same time meaning a couple of hours in the morning and afternoon.  On the rare occasions (maybe I've seen this twice this year) that they do this, folks do slow down.  However, the HMasters seem to prefer to lock themselves in their shack on the dock 1/2 mile away and definately have no interest in telling people to slow down.  In three years, I've seen one instance of the HMaster pulling someone over. 



#15 tommays

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 06:33 PM

It is the 64 million dollar question :)

 

I am on the outer edge of the Northport mooring field so we get endless boat wakes in daylight as you would need to make Northport bay a no make zone to stop it

 

You would also need a way to stop NE winds as anytime we get one the conditions get way worse than powerboat stuff



#16 Touch of Gray

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 06:44 PM

So yesterday, under power coming into the channel to the locks, there was a whole bunch of boats trolling back and forth 90 degrees to the channel.  Kinda a real clog of boats everywhere I have to say.   One tupperware style 25-30 was on a collision course to me on my port hand, thus "give way" boat.  I held course and kept an eye on him and he did slow but as I passed him he got all chest pounding about what an asshole I was.  Politely suggested he refresh his knowledge of the rules of the road.  He was NOT a commercial craft engaged in fishing, and was the give way vessel.  And should I have passed close astern (over his lines?)?  That would have really frosted him up!  His type will never "get it."  When it was my turn to respect someone on my starboard hand, I poked it up ahead of him to not cross his lines. 



#17 chessiebaysailor

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 08:25 PM

So yesterday, under power coming into the channel to the locks, there was a whole bunch of boats trolling back and forth 90 degrees to the channel.  Kinda a real clog of boats everywhere I have to say.   One tupperware style 25-30 was on a collision course to me on my port hand, thus "give way" boat.  I held course and kept an eye on him and he did slow but as I passed him he got all chest pounding about what an asshole I was.  Politely suggested he refresh his knowledge of the rules of the road.  He was NOT a commercial craft engaged in fishing, and was the give way vessel.  And should I have passed close astern (over his lines?)?  That would have really frosted him up!  His type will never "get it."  When it was my turn to respect someone on my starboard hand, I poked it up ahead of him to not cross his lines. 

I think that behavior is about universal, sadly, in the trolling sportfishing community in the U.S, at a level of oh, 10-20% of the population or so.  It's a real treat when you have to send your wife below to take shelter when the beer-sodden SOB starts screaming and threatening to shoot at you because you are crossing his lines 50 yards from his transom. (I couldn't even see the planing boards due to the sea state.)  I couldn't believe what I saw/heard, right in the middle of the Bay.  I want to know why you have to bring a gun with you on a rockfishing trip anyway.  Thankfully he was far enough away I doubt it was a major danger, given his state, even if he did have his gun.



#18 WarBird

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 08:51 PM

Speechless! Talked to a fellow sailor. His kids like wake boarding/tubing so he bought a Ski Nautique (or some such). He explained that with the water ballast tanks full (designed to pull a bigger wake with more weight in the boat) the boat goes 12 knots at 4000 rpm and pulls a 8-9' wake.  Huh?  This is all done on bodies of water with private piers and shores.



#19 davidprobable

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 10:56 PM

i think its like with ducks.........yah just got to lead them a bit.........



#20 imakebadjokes

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 10:58 PM

It doesn't matter if he was commercial or not. It matters if his lines restricted his maneuverability.
Trolling lines do not. He can make a 360 turn or stop his engine(s). 

So yesterday, under power coming into the channel to the locks, there was a whole bunch of boats trolling back and forth 90 degrees to the channel.  Kinda a real clog of boats everywhere I have to say.   One tupperware style 25-30 was on a collision course to me on my port hand, thus "give way" boat.  I held course and kept an eye on him and he did slow but as I passed him he got all chest pounding about what an asshole I was.  Politely suggested he refresh his knowledge of the rules of the road.  He was NOT a commercial craft engaged in fishing, and was the give way vessel.  And should I have passed close astern (over his lines?)?  That would have really frosted him up!  His type will never "get it."  When it was my turn to respect someone on my starboard hand, I poked it up ahead of him to not cross his lines. 



#21 On the Hard

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 12:17 AM

I would recommend a friendly chat first. I've been negligent, thoughtless, inconsiderate at times. Someone who non-confrontationally lets me know the error of my ways will usually receive thanks from me for calling it to my attention, and more careful attention in the future. This is true on land and water. The A-Hole types noted above are the exceptions. Most only get defensive when confronted in a way that makes them so.

 

In the OP it was stated that the boat was 150 yards outside the no wake zone. I'm sure the driver assumed it would be fine. Understanding that even outside the zone, but still in close quarters, the wake can cause problems will probably make him think before accelerating instead of just automatically hitting the throttles.

 

If he doesn't respond to a neighborly chat, then by all means go to the next steps.



#22 mustang__1

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 12:29 AM

best i saw was a fisherman in a flats boat with a big engine on the back. we were doing what amounted to a pickup game of team racing... he drifts downwind and right between marks 1&2, the offset leg. his lines get cut. he throws a hissy fit, threatens to call the CG, wants to report us to the local club, etc. Well, when he finishes his tirade he start up the big ass motor, twists the throttle to wide open and flashes us the double middle finger. Well, big ass motor has big ass torque and it promptly goes to full tilt and throws the boat into a 120deg turn to port, throwing douchebag and his friend about 100ft from the damn near capsized boat. To the fucktards credit he had the kill cord on so his boat didnt take off in a wide circle at full bore.  they swam back to their boat trying to hold their rods out of the water. i would have loved to have heard the conversation when they got back to the ramp and had to explain wtf just happened. oh, and of course, this was all in a no wake and manatee zone. 



#23 Great Red Shark

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 12:38 AM

We've had a fishermen pull up next to one of our LARGE orange inflatable tetrahedron windward marks - out in the open ocean in 200 feet of water, and get angry when a bunch of sailboats buzzed him !

These days there really isn't much that ISN'T met with a hissy fit of bluster and aggression.

#24 DA-WOODY

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 12:50 AM

I kinda like to leave all that shit on shore = the Blame Game

 

Sooo you were thrown a Big Wake OMG

 

what if it was a Swell out of nowhere ??

 

Everyone on a Boat should keep their Head Up for Danger

 

OR Have someone on Lookout "Expect Whatever to happen"

 

Deal with It and Move on - Have FUN

 

And Bitch about It when you get back here

 

 

Oh Wait - Nevermind  :lol:



#25 Steam Flyer

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 01:18 AM

It just makes you wonder about human nature, doesn't it?

 

A crowd of fishermen trolling back & forth at 90 to the channel... how about doing this right outside the entrance jetties, literally no room at all outside the channel... now how about doing it at night !!

 

Extremely obese family tubing with a pontoon boat, cutting right through starting line of large (100+ boats) regatta... multiple times, eventually giving the finger and yelling obscenity, etc etc.

 

Another fave is large cruising sailboat motoring right thru a regatta, when hailed "Could you keep further back, we're racing" the reply was "So what, we're cruising!" and about 5 minutes later they told an RC chase boat they were a sailboat and thus had right-of-way. To be fair, when trying to motor right over a flock of Lasers they realized the Lasers were not going to get clear so they jammed it in reverse, producing a lot of grinding and black smoke.

 

It's almost universal on summer weekends to see jetskis doing doughnuts just outside the NO WAKE buoys at all lake launch ramps.

 

Gee, why are sailors such assholes?

:rolleyes:

 

FB- Doug



#26 glowmaster

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 01:28 AM

At the Newport Unlimited Regatta last week, a powerboat wake was so big that it went over my cabin top as I pierced into it.  My sprit was suitably supported for up pressure, but not down.   Down went the sprit.  We raced the rest of the afternoon with no downwind sails.

 

I couldnt believe how steep this wave was.  We fixed it for the next day, and now the sprit is supported in every dimension, but time.

 

It wasnt a no wake zone, but still.....



#27 duncan (the other one)

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 02:53 AM

Often "Power boat" and "common sense" are exclusive.

But then again, only a small proportion of the population seems to have the latter.

#28 Somebody Else

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 02:59 AM

We've had fishermen set up right at marks, starting lines, etc.

 

I always come up to them and ask what's biting today. We shoot the shit for a while, then I offer ...

"That big orange inflatable mark is part of the sailboat race course. Of course you guys can fish wherever you want, but you should know that in 15 minutes, 60 sailboats are all going to be converging right here. Some of these guys can cop a pretty nasty attitude so I thought I'd give you a little heads up so you won't get taken by surprise."

 

9 times out of 10 they just say, "Thanks," pick up and move a few hundred yards away, or back off just enough to give room, then watch with various mixes of amusement, annoyance, actual curiosity, etc.

 

The only time I've seen the fishermen get belligerent is when the sailors get rude and start screaming about "rights", "the law", etc. No one likes to be made to look stupid, especially if they're not doing anything wrong.

 

---

 

Some of the good places for ocean windward/leewards in my area are pretty much right between waypoints used by everyone -- sail and power -- moving between Long Beach and Newport Beach. If I'm on a mark boat I often intercept boats headed at the race course and ask them if it wouldn't be too much trouble to alter course a few degrees and miss the fleet. They never have a problem with that.



#29 zerothehero

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 03:28 AM

when I was a junior sailor the Gentry Eagle was running up and down WLIS getting ready for the big one across the Atlantic.  They kept it about 1/4 mile from our Laser dock.  One day it went past as it was coming down from 80 mph to "no wake" speed and I was in just the wrong spot.  Just outside the islands off Greenwich the waves coming off that thing were above the numbers on my Laser sail.  Course being 17 or so I turned and ran with it, surfing waves the likes WLIS Lasers sailors never see.  If only there was more wind I could made it LI!

 

 



#30 One eye Jack

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 05:14 AM

You are responsible for your wake. Just because you are out of a no wake zone doesn't mean anything.. Example you are going down a river with levys and your wake is going over the top of the levy.. Or like in the Oakland estuary with no speed or wake zone, and across the way your wake is breaking dock lines going to the boats.. It is supposed to be COMMON SENSE!!! But it looks like some don't have any.

#31 atwinda

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 05:36 AM

Inversely to all of this- over labor day weekend I was driving across a lake on a 23' power boat, and about 1/2 way to the no wake bouys going under 5 mph and not leaving any noticeable wake, and a lake safety turns his lights on and honks his horn, so I stop. He proceeded to lecture me for a good 5 to 7 minutes about how the folks in the bay had been complaining about boats going in and out too fast. Meanwhile, I counted and pointed out several boat that where actually throwing a wake, some not even trying to slow down until well inside of the bouys and he said "This isn't about them, it's about you". Unfortunately for him, he did not know I know his boss, to whom I made a quick phone call afterwards... not to actually complain, but just to give his boss some shit about his employees.

 

Clearly this guy had made up his mind that I was indeed throwing a wake (which I was not, it's labor day, I know a majority of the other boaters do not know the rules, nor have the slightest clue when it comes to safety, so I kept it mellow), and just wanted to heckle someone. 



#32 zerothehero

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 12:31 PM

You are responsible for your wake. Just because you are out of a no wake zone doesn't mean anything.. Example you are going down a river with levys and your wake is going over the top of the levy.. Or like in the Oakland estuary with no speed or wake zone, and across the way your wake is breaking dock lines going to the boats.. It is supposed to be COMMON SENSE!!! But it looks like some don't have any.

There is no common sense in the good old USA anymore.  Now people do what they want till it's regulated, usually after a lawsuit.



#33 Timo42

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 12:45 PM

My new favorite is instead of flipping them off, holding finger and thumb about 2 inches apart, indicating the size of the manhood that the douchebag is compensating for. B)  Last Wed night right at the end of the MDR channel I just raised my hands and shrugged my shoulders "What?" and got flipped off by the douche, gotta think he was doing it on purpose. :rolleyes:



#34 davidprobable

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 01:47 PM

The game on the Intracoastal in Florida I am told is to wait for high tide and then go half way towards plane to create the biggest wake possible and see if you can scoop a poodle or yorkie off the lawn of some mansion......during the week the cops are not around as it is dunkin donuts half price time.........you need a big sportfish or somesuch to achieve this result.   Kinda makes you proud doesn't it.   America the beautiful.



#35 Foolish

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 02:22 PM

There are two options: You can try to change the behavior of everyone else in the world to meet your desire for common sense (given that 1/2 the population has an IQ of less than 100, this is doubtful).  Or, you can change your own behavior. 

 

Which do you think is easier?   If you have people working on the bow of your boat, they should ALWAYS be ready for rough water, regardless of whether you are in the open ocean, in the no-wake zone or tied to the dock.  Rather than curse every powerboater that passes by, an easier approach would be to warn your 57 year old sister to be very careful while up on the bow because anything can happen at any time.   "One hand for the Queen and one hand for yourself" is not just a quaint saying, it has an actual purpose.

 

The way I see it, cursing the power boater only stresses you out at the end of a beautiful day of sailing.  Being careful on the bow and laughing at the big waves brings a nice ending to a beautiful day on the water. 



#36 DA-WOODY

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 03:19 PM

There are two options: You can try to change the behavior of everyone else in the world to meet your desire for common sense (given that 1/2 the population has an IQ of less than 100, this is doubtful).  Or, you can change your own behavior. 

 

Which do you think is easier?   If you have people working on the bow of your boat, they should ALWAYS be ready for rough water, regardless of whether you are in the open ocean, in the no-wake zone or tied to the dock.  Rather than curse every powerboater that passes by, an easier approach would be to warn your 57 year old sister to be very careful while up on the bow because anything can happen at any time.   "One hand for the Queen and one hand for yourself" is not just a quaint saying, it has an actual purpose.

 

The way I see it, cursing the power boater only stresses you out at the end of a beautiful day of sailing.  Being careful on the bow and laughing at the big waves brings a nice ending to a beautiful day on the water. 

 

Exactly !!  B)



#37 coyotepup

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 04:53 PM

On the other hand, every time I sail, I see irresponsible sailors cut off power-boaters with the "sail has right-of-way over power" snobbery on full display, even going so far as to yell at the power-boaters. That is certain to "grow the sport", mate. Here's how the power-boater sees that:

  • For some reason, the sailboat is not going straight down the harbor; they are zig-zagging back and forth for no reason, making abrupt turns without any warning. The power-boat operators don't know about tacking or wind direction. Why don't those idiots go straight in these constricted channels?

 

I get what you're saying here.  However: I am not a truck driver, yet I know certain basic things about how they drive, like, they make really wide turns and they can't see you if you get up close behind them.  Moreover I'm rightfully expected to know things like that because it makes me a safer driver on the roads.  Likewise a powerboater is being unsafe and ignorant if he doesn't know certain basic things about how sailboats move.

 

And I'd also argue a sailboater is being unsafe if he decides to sail upwind in a tight, constricted, and crowded channel for no other reason than he just doesn't want to motor up it.



#38 fastyacht

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 04:59 PM

A sailboat withtout a motor has no choice but to sail up that channel. Unless he has a Yuloh...



#39 Bull City

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 06:12 PM

There are two options: You can try to change the behavior of everyone else in the world to meet your desire for common sense (given that 1/2 the population has an IQ of less than 100, this is doubtful).  Or, you can change your own behavior. 

 

Which do you think is easier?   If you have people working on the bow of your boat, they should ALWAYS be ready for rough water, regardless of whether you are in the open ocean, in the no-wake zone or tied to the dock.  Rather than curse every powerboater that passes by, an easier approach would be to warn your 57 year old sister to be very careful while up on the bow because anything can happen at any time.   "One hand for the Queen and one hand for yourself" is not just a quaint saying, it has an actual purpose.

 

The way I see it, cursing the power boater only stresses you out at the end of a beautiful day of sailing.  Being careful on the bow and laughing at the big waves brings a nice ending to a beautiful day on the water. 

 

Foolish, you are quite right about the "one hand for yourself and one for the ship." I have sailed for many years, and saw the situation developing. I had time to warn my sister, who knew what to do. The incident didn't stress me out. I didn't scream or curse at the man "driving" the power boat (he was long gone by the time his wake reached us). It didn't ruin our day.

 

I agree with the spirit of your post, however, many of the opinions expressed here support the view that a boater should be aware of what is happening around them and the effect their wake may have on others. In this case, the power boater is from our marina, and is not some yahoo who trailered his hot rod in from Dogpatch for the day.

 

If he has created an unsafe situation, he really should be made aware of it. Next time, somebody may get hurt. I would like to approach him in a way that doesn't make him defensive. That's where I would welcome suggestions.

 

I also believe the No Wake zone should be expanded. I'll contact the state parks people about that.



#40 Somebody Else

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 08:56 PM


If he has created an unsafe situation, he really should be made aware of it. Next time, somebody may get hurt. I would like to approach him in a way that doesn't make him defensive. That's where I would welcome suggestions.

 

Yes, talk to him... as a friend, not an adversary.

 

Something like, "Make sure the Water Police don't see you make a big wake like last weekend. If the cops see it and someone gets hurt or the boat gets damaged, the cops will make you pay for it. An' fixin' people or boats ain't cheap!"

 

Also, "The Water Police are pretty cool about drinkin' while boatin' but if something bad happens like someone gittin' hurt, they will try to bring alcohol into play with breath-a-lyzer, etc. It goes on your driving record and costs $Texas to make it go away. So be real careful you don't get caught."

 

And/or, "My buddy got nailed for some scratches on the paint of a boat and he ended up having to pay $2,300 to the guy to get it fixed."

 

By saying "if the cops see it" and "don't get caught" it takes personal judgement out of the conversation -- WAY less confrontational -- more like two buddies keeping each other out of trouble.

 

This approach is really just another way of saying, "Hey, asshole! You're breaking the law!" but without making him defensive or angry.



#41 Bull City

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 02:21 AM

This is a good approach, however, I have never seen a law enforcement type on the water on this lake.



#42 Somebody Else

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:59 AM

This is a good approach, however, I have never seen a law enforcement type on the water on this lake.

 

Oh.

 

Never mind, then.



#43 laserandy

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 11:02 AM

So, I was out on my powerboat last Thursday evening with the family, idling through a no wake zone through the fleet of J22s, 24s, 80s and 70s coming in from TNR, when I got passed by a new J/70 being towed through the fleet by a new 25 or so foot center console at better than 10 knots throwing huge wakes off both hulls. 

 

I hate to say it, I'm not sure we're not any less a bunch of assholes as a group, most of the time we just have less capacity to demonstrate it conclusively to others outside of shouting range.



#44 Steam Flyer

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 11:55 AM

This is a good approach, however, I have never seen a law enforcement type on the water on this lake.

 

Kerr Lake? That's a bit of a surprise, in the not-so-long-ago we spent many weekends out of each year up there, and the Wildlife officers were not hard to find. Always at least one on the lake, and a county Parks & Rec guy at each of the big parks.

 

In low-water years, there's a big island right at the corner. Not definitely part of either NC or Virginia, always wondered whose officers would take it over.

 

FB- Doug



#45 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 12:04 PM

So, I was out on my powerboat last Thursday evening with the family, idling through a no wake zone through the fleet of J22s, 24s, 80s and 70s coming in from TNR, when I got passed by a new J/70 being towed through the fleet by a new 25 or so foot center console at better than 10 knots throwing huge wakes off both hulls. 

 

I hate to say it, I'm not sure we're not any less a bunch of assholes as a group, most of the time we just have less capacity to demonstrate it conclusively to others outside of shouting range.

Unfortunately this.  Even at the same "asshole to good guy ratio". the power boats outnumber us by 4:1 so you'll see more of them.   



#46 fastyacht

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:30 PM

Unfortunately this.  Even at the same "asshole to good guy ratio". the power boats outnumber us by 4:1 20:1 so you'll see more of them.   



#47 Bull City

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:50 PM

I hate to say it, I'm not sure we're not any less a bunch of assholes as a group, most of the time we just have less capacity to demonstrate it conclusively to others outside of shouting range.

 

About the worst thing I've seen sailors do is leave their fenders hanging while underway. :D



#48 mikewof

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:03 PM

Maybe introduce him to sailing, take him on your boat for a sail, help him really get into it, then introduce him to Sailing Anarchy, become his friend here so that he posts regularly, and gradually destroys his life as many of the rest of us have done. Then when he's lost his wife and had to sell all of his boats and when he's sleeping with his mouth in a gutter somewhere with an empty of Sailor Jerry's hugged to his chest, you can then look down at him, give him a swift kick in the ribs so that he looks up at you and then whisper ...

"No fucking wake."

#49 Bull City

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 11:51 PM

Maybe introduce him to sailing, take him on your boat for a sail, help him really get into it, then introduce him to Sailing Anarchy, become his friend here so that he posts regularly, and gradually destroys his life as many of the rest of us have done. Then when he's lost his wife and had to sell all of his boats and when he's sleeping with his mouth in a gutter somewhere with an empty of Sailor Jerry's hugged to his chest, you can then look down at him, give him a swift kick in the ribs so that he looks up at you and then whisper ...

"No fucking wake."

 

Brilliant!



#50 Gouvernail

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 05:06 AM

I'd be interested in what you folks think of this.
 
<snip>
 
I know the boat; I walk past it on the way to my slip. I don't know him, so I give him the benefit of the doubt. Was he wrong? Should I say something to him? What should I say?



I am basing my answer on your sincere opening post and its request for honest advice.

Stop by and visit the fellow. Express admiration for his fine boat, wife's hairdo, children's intelligence and then chat about how fascinated
You are by the humongous wake the thing can generate.
Maybe tell him about your educational experience the other day.
On the coast there are marinas where an ebbing tide and big waves rolling on make monster waves at the mouth of a cove.
When your boat went out a couple weeks ago I told my sister your wake was going to be a lot like those coastal wakes, only backwards, and we had a fun time trying to hold our course as we tried to maintain control motoring over it.
On thought it was sorta fun and told some sailors on another boat I was going to thank you for the fun ride.
Did I ever get an earful. Apparently their boat rolled out of control and they spilled their beer and worse, the kids on the raft behind the boat were knocked on the water.
I tried to tell them dragging kids do close to the harbor was not a safe thing to do
They told me, " the guy in the powerboat should not have accelerated without minding his wake and we turned him in"
I don't know if they radioed somebody or phoned somebody or were just blowing smoke but I thought you should know some guy on ace hotel sailboat with a blue stripe is pissed.

And thanks for the fun ride!!!

#51 DA-WOODY

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 06:09 AM

The Whiners in this thread would last less than a day riding a motorcycle in DAGO

 

For REAL !!!!

 

for sum life is harder than your rants - everyday on a hook

 

get a ride that is suited for the area you wanna Play in

 

Nanny will come protect you if you keep crying

 

then protect them from you

 

Just deal with it on your own less you want to have to go counter clockwise within 30' of shore



#52 Trov„o

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 07:44 PM

"lack of awareness of what was going on around him" is, unfortunately, the key phrase regarding most powerboaters i know of.



#53 toddster

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 07:51 PM

Then there are the guys who actually slow down when passing a sailboat in the approach channel, thereby coming off plane, dropping the stern into the hole, and generating 10-times bigger wake than if they had just kept going.

 

 

Oh, THANK you...  :wacko:



#54 Folding prop

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 09:45 PM

I thought a powerboat wake was what you went to after they sink.

#55 George Hackett

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 01:44 AM

it does not matter where you are in the world.  for a while here, we had this ferry service that acted like they owned the bay and the basin our club is located in.  they would approach the entrance to the basin at full speed and then drop out of warp at the last possible moment.  then they expect the entrance to be clear of all vessels for thier entrance. 

 

well, one day, i did not clear out.  the jackass was forced to make a hard left, as going right would mean hitting a wall.  this ferry wound up messing up the moorings of some of the boat outside the basin and almost ran aground on the Blvd. 

 

that was the last time that was tried.  and now that company is out of business.  karma



#56 TPG

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 01:01 PM

I hate to be a cynic ("the capacity for accurate observation is often termed "cynicism" by those who don't have it") but it's likely that this guy already knows he's being an asshole; and either doesn't care or actually enjoys it.

 

An option is to get some 10' lengths of floating line to toss in his path.

 

Unwinding one or two from his prop might convince him that getting along with his neighbors is a good.

 

FB- Doug

 

whale-wars-meet-the-crew-300.jpg



#57 frostbit

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:52 AM

As a sailing instructor in WLIS at glassed off regattas with hundreds of small dinghies with kids of various ages, there was always a good chance that the then current Donald Trump owned 125+ft monstrosity would come cruising straight up the sound at 15-20knts. The waves were huge, but everyone dealt with it as they were long and rolling. Then you would hear the ignition fire on half a dozen instructor whalers and makos for a good wave jumping session. Admittedly off tone, but somehow related.

#58 Bulbhunter

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 06:16 PM

So, I was out on my powerboat last Thursday evening with the family, idling through a no wake zone through the fleet of J22s, 24s, 80s and 70s coming in from TNR, when I got passed by a new J/70 being towed through the fleet by a new 25 or so foot center console at better than 10 knots throwing huge wakes off both hulls. 

 

I hate to say it, I'm not sure we're not any less a bunch of assholes as a group, most of the time we just have less capacity to demonstrate it conclusively to others outside of shouting range.

Dude it was a J boat owner they are a special sub class of the general sailing community. Damn thought everyone knew that?



#59 mikewof

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 03:55 AM

The Whiners in this thread would last less than a day riding a motorcycle in DAGO

 

For REAL !!!!

 

for sum life is harder than your rants - everyday on a hook

 

get a ride that is suited for the area you wanna Play in

 

Nanny will come protect you if you keep crying

 

then protect them from you

 

Just deal with it on your own less you want to have to go counter clockwise within 30' of shore

Please bring your Woody to Boston Harbor and experience the State Police hospitality. I may even be so kind as to pick you out of the drink. I'm pretty sure your station wagon won't be the first at the bottom of Boston Harbor.

 

The woody isn't going to the bottom of anything. It's already survived the nuclear blast at Bikini Atoll, it was the test boat on which they set the nuclear charge, and it survived with only some minor gel coat blistering.

 

Unfortunately it irradiated Woody, and turned him into a mutant cougar love machine.

 

Before that he was a one-woman-one-guy kind of fella.



#60 DA-WOODY

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 05:46 AM

 

The Whiners in this thread would last less than a day riding a motorcycle in DAGO

 

For REAL !!!!

 

for sum life is harder than your rants - everyday on a hook

 

get a ride that is suited for the area you wanna Play in

 

Nanny will come protect you if you keep crying

 

then protect them from you

 

Just deal with it on your own less you want to have to go counter clockwise within 30' of shore

Please bring your Woody to Boston Harbor and experience the State Police hospitality. I may even be so kind as to pick you out of the drink. I'm pretty sure your station wagon won't be the first at the bottom of Boston Harbor.

 

The woody isn't going to the bottom of anything. It's already survived the nuclear blast at Bikini Atoll, it was the test boat on which they set the nuclear charge, and it survived with only some minor gel coat blistering.

 

Unfortunately it irradiated Woody, and turned him into a mutant cougar love machine.

 

Before that he was a one-woman-one-guy kind of fella.

 

You Fucking Promised NOT To Tell !!!!!

 

Maxwell Smart shall be calling  B)

 

 

For ALL Others

 

I consider myself at the bottom of the BBW food chain be it on me Harley or YACHT

 

one or 2 times day I get stupid fucks noticing me after what would have taken me out

 

who make a stupid face and wave an say Sorry 

 

I know they will chalk it off as a one-off and forget

 

if you are riding in something you are convinced Nothing else can penetrate YOU live by your Rights 

 

You are then a FOOL

 

as you wont understand till you get stuffed

 

The cries on this thread are all about those who want to check there guard at the shore

 

I Don't want a 100% Safe Nanny State to go out and get away from The Nanny State on shore

 

jus sayin  <_<






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