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Weta compared to beach cats


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#1 charliemagee

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:44 PM

Been looking at the Weta. Anybody know how they compare head-to-head around the buoys with the various Hobies, Nacras, A-Cat, etc.? Where do they fit in?

 

Thanks,

 

Charlie Magee



#2 Scarecrow

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:50 PM

Think Hobie 14 Turbo.

 

http://www.weta.org.uk/page11.html



#3 ita 16

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 12:08 AM

Stunt S.9 , 13.9 feet
http://m.youtube.com...eature=youtu.be

#4 Bsquared

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 01:03 AM

Have seen them beat H16s around the course in light air; going deeper downwind with the big sail.  When the breeze picks up, the 16s rule downwind.  They seem to hold pretty even upwind in both cases, though.  When the breeze REALLY picks up, they might stay upright when the 16s go over :-)  Small data base for my observations, though.  Anything faster than a H16 or with a chute would leave them behind pretty easily, I think.

 

US Sailing website has Portsmouth numbers for multihulls; they will give you the full picture of relative speed (at a single intermediate wind speed). 



#5 eric e

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 03:17 AM

i've had both for 4 years and have done a lot of comparisons

 

much easier to sail a weta well than a hobie16

 

so yes, the average cross-over sailor is probably going to be faster around the course on a weta than a hobie16

 

or a wave

 

and a getaway

 

but well sailed 15-16' trapeze racing cats are going to walk away from the 14' weta with their much bigger upwind and reaching sails

 

so for sheer performance you would give the nod to trapeze beachcats

 

but for; storage, versatility, solo-righting and relaxed sailing across a broader range of conditions i would give the nod to the weta

 

most 50yo new multi owners would probably be better off with a weta

 

had some fun solo on the weta continually reaching across a bay against a hobie16

 

1 direction was about 100 degrees off the wind and fully hiked on the weta and planning with the gennaker i could keep up with 2 on a hobie16 who were only hiking

 

but the other direction was 80 degrees off the wind and without the genny the weta's 12m2 main+jib couldn't keep up with the hobie16's 19m2 



#6 can-UK

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 12:33 PM

Anything faster than a H16 or with a chute would leave them behind pretty easily, I think.

 

Correct.  There are a couple Wetas that participate in local regattas. Our F18 and F16s are significantly faster around the course.



#7 madboutcats

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 12:47 PM

I've sailed a lot on a Weta teaching people and at my old club we had one race against us every week, for competent sailors they don't compare to a Hobie 16 or any fast cat around a triangular course but they have a definite place in the fleet for getting people on the water.



#8 DaveK

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 02:31 PM

Well that was kinda the conundrum when I bought my Weta. It didn't really fit with F18, mixed nacra's or big trimaran fleets. Just too slow, like twice as slow. So luckily I had been racing in a mixed portsmouth centerboard fleet and they have adopted me and the weta's into that. We are one of the faster boats but the International Canoe can kill us upwind. The contender and v15 regularly beat us and it's hard to sail to our rating so I don't win much. I believe across the country on the East and West coast they also race in more of performance dinghy class of a mix fleet and that is really where the boat belongs.



#9 Crump's Brother

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 02:41 PM

Been looking at the Weta. Anybody know how they compare head-to-head around the buoys with the various Hobies, Nacras, A-Cat, etc.? Where do they fit in?

 

Thanks,

 

Charlie Magee

 

It took a bit to convince Texas clubs to let the weta sail in mixed centerboard portsmouth fleets, but that is the direction we took in the TCC.  For us the Weta is a better fit in the centerboard fleet (bigger), rather than the beach cat fleet.

 

I think the Weta (I sail) has more of a centerboard feel (can't main hull, no trap and a centerboard!), than a beachcat.  We get crushed by the rating(78.5) in the light air, but in heavy air I can sail to it. 



#10 EarthBM

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 06:51 PM

It is a smaller boat with smaller sails. It would beat any similar size (14') beach cat.

On the fun/effort basis I can't see any other boat beating it. Unless you have space to keep your beach cat close to the water mast-up.

One design races are obviously best.

#11 tikipete

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 08:13 PM

Been looking at the Weta. Anybody know how they compare head-to-head around the buoys with the various Hobies, Nacras, A-Cat, etc.? Where do they fit in?

 

Thanks,

 

Charlie Magee

More comfortable and easier to sail to include rigging up and down, a little more difficult to launch and recover.  As stated previously, "smaller boat with smaller sails" so the performance won't quite match.  I may end up with one yet primarily because beach access is harder and harder to get. I'm confidant ramp launching would be fairly simple.

 

My gps shows easily attainable speed in the 14 knot range with good control, far more control than my F16 (solo) at the same speed.



#12 unShirley

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 08:48 PM

At almost 12' wide it is very difficult to capsize.  On the West Coast, particularly in the Bay Area, there are fun OD fleets.

 

Been looking at the Weta. Anybody know how they compare head-to-head around the buoys with the various Hobies, Nacras, A-Cat, etc.? Where do they fit in?

 

Thanks,

 

Charlie Magee

The Weta is faster than the roto-moulded resort Hobies. It is almost, but not quite as fast as the venerable H16. The Nacras and A-Cats will crush it, but when the wind pipes up and those boats are capsizing or their owners are hiding on the beach in the fetal position, the Weta owners are Gennaker reaching with big smiles on their faces.

Beach Cat sailing is on the edge, white knuckled thrill riding. Weta sailing is much more relaxed but can still be quite thrilling.

Locally, in the typical 14 kts to 18 kts afternoon breezes I am regularly able to do 14+ knots, occassionally getting up to 16. My PR Max speed is 18 kts. But most fun of all, the Weta surfs really well.



#13 unShirley

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 09:00 PM

Charlie Magee, where are you located?

 

If you can get to Richmond, on the SF Bay for the weekend of 9/21 & 22, you may be able to charter a Weta and compete in the West Coast Championships.  Randy Smyth and Chris Kitchen will be there. Go to http://www.wetamarine.com for more info.



#14 madboutcats

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 07:06 AM

At almost 12' wide it is very difficult to capsize.  On the West Coast, particularly in the Bay Area, there are fun OD fleets.

 

Been looking at the Weta. Anybody know how they compare head-to-head around the buoys with the various Hobies, Nacras, A-Cat, etc.? Where do they fit in?

 

Thanks,

 

Charlie Magee

The Weta is faster than the roto-moulded resort Hobies. It is almost, but not quite as fast as the venerable H16. The Nacras and A-Cats will crush it, but when the wind pipes up and those boats are capsizing or their owners are hiding on the beach in the fetal position, the Weta owners are Gennaker reaching with big smiles on their faces.

Beach Cat sailing is on the edge, white knuckled thrill riding. Weta sailing is much more relaxed but can still be quite thrilling.

Locally, in the typical 14 kts to 18 kts afternoon breezes I am regularly able to do 14+ knots, occassionally getting up to 16. My PR Max speed is 18 kts. But most fun of all, the Weta surfs really well.

 I was keeping as positive as possible towards the Weta but then this sort of rubbish pops up, I don't understand why anyone would carp on like that

Here's some facts from someone that has instructed on one.

It can go over easily in 18 knots I have seen it twice and assisted in righting it.

If you go over it always turtles, if your in less than 12 foot of water with waves you've got a good chance of snapping your mast as the boats weight pushes down

I would not leave it unattended off the trailer in over 20 knots as the wind gets under the tramp

It is not quicker to rig than a beachcat

You cannot leave it at a club mast up as every flex of the mast in the wind allows the AMA wings to move up and down which gradually sands the connection holes out

I'm holding back on listing whats gone wrong on the club Weta but the next time someone posts bullshit like this I'll post a full list,



#15 Crump's Brother

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 12:17 PM

Midas well post your list bro!  They've sold 1000 now and people will continue to promote 'em because they like 'em.

 

Sorry for your problems, but yall ought to stick with roto-hobies for club beaters.

 

KB



#16 madboutcats

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:22 PM

Nah no need to, I shouldn't get so worked up when he posts bullshit about Weta's it's just someone may believe him, like in the other Weta thread where he states he's gone 16 knots in mid teens wind and he's not even the fastest Weta sailor. I've only taught people on them, never owned one personally so I haven't had any problems but I've got five cats in various size's and can post a vid anytime of me sailing on a cat in 25 to 30 knots, when you are reaching on a Weta in 20 knots plus with genny up you do not just sit there and smile anyone that's done it knows the leeward ama is mostly underwater and there is a lot of load on the sheet, can unshirley show us the day with the cat sailors in the "foetal position" or any windy pics of him?

Charlie the Weta is a good boat for what it is, you've been looking for a long time just grab one



#17 tikipete

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:08 PM

The Weta is absolutely faster and easier to rig than a F16 with all its spinnaker bits, other cats I don't know about. The Weta mast handles almost as easily as my windsurfer mast.

 

I was suprised at how well the Weta goes to weather, I haven't been able to make a side by side comparison to a beach cat though.

 

I would like to see the vid of the cat in 25-30 knots. Been out in the low 20s plenty of times and that's hairy enough.



#18 DaveK

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:42 PM

At almost 12' wide it is very difficult to capsize.  On the West Coast, particularly in the Bay Area, there are fun OD fleets.

 

Been looking at the Weta. Anybody know how they compare head-to-head around the buoys with the various Hobies, Nacras, A-Cat, etc.? Where do they fit in?

 

Thanks,

 

Charlie Magee

The Weta is faster than the roto-moulded resort Hobies. It is almost, but not quite as fast as the venerable H16. The Nacras and A-Cats will crush it, but when the wind pipes up and those boats are capsizing or their owners are hiding on the beach in the fetal position, the Weta owners are Gennaker reaching with big smiles on their faces.

Beach Cat sailing is on the edge, white knuckled thrill riding. Weta sailing is much more relaxed but can still be quite thrilling.

Locally, in the typical 14 kts to 18 kts afternoon breezes I am regularly able to do 14+ knots, occassionally getting up to 16. My PR Max speed is 18 kts. But most fun of all, the Weta surfs really well.

 I was keeping as positive as possible towards the Weta but then this sort of rubbish pops up, I don't understand why anyone would carp on like that

Here's some facts from someone that has instructed on one.

It can go over easily in 18 knots I have seen it twice and assisted in righting it.

If you go over it always turtles, if your in less than 12 foot of water with waves you've got a good chance of snapping your mast as the boats weight pushes down

I would not leave it unattended off the trailer in over 20 knots as the wind gets under the tramp

It is not quicker to rig than a beachcat

You cannot leave it at a club mast up as every flex of the mast in the wind allows the AMA wings to move up and down which gradually sands the connection holes out

I'm holding back on listing whats gone wrong on the club Weta but the next time someone posts bullshit like this I'll post a full list,

 

Wow... talk about BS! Most of what you just said is completely wrong. And to say that your a sailing instructor. You must be about 17 years old helping kids sail. Which is fine but you know little about this boat

 

I can definitely do 14knts in 18 of wind!! And yes, I stupoose you can flip in that but you are probably very inexperienced sailor if you do. And of course it turtles.... duh. So do lots of multihulls and If your in less than 22' of water, you could break the mast..... it's a bit longer than 12 feet. It regularly blows well over 30 here and we race in it. I've never had a problem with the boat wanting to flip over at shore.... ever!! I've left mine rig up for over a year at the club and the only problem with that is the Texas sun oxidizing gelcoat.

 

Nah no need to, I shouldn't get so worked up when he posts bullshit about Weta's it's just someone may believe him, like in the other Weta thread where he states he's gone 16 knots in mid teens wind and he's not even the fastest Weta sailor. I've only taught people on them, never owned one personally so I haven't had any problems but I've got five cats in various size's and can post a vid anytime of me sailing on a cat in 25 to 30 knots, when you are reaching on a Weta in 20 knots plus with genny up you do not just sit there and smile anyone that's done it knows the leeward ama is mostly underwater and there is a lot of load on the sheet, can unshirley show us the day with the cat sailors in the "foetal position" or any windy pics of him?

Charlie the Weta is a good boat for what it is, you've been looking for a long time just grab one

 

Again.... you demonstrate bad sailing if your dragging an ama buried in the water. That's extremely slow and of course that would load up the genneker.



#19 samc99us

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 04:58 PM

My 2 cents never sailed the boat but raced against it:

 

1) The Weta is FAST to rig. From mast down to sailable in well under an hour. Close to 30 minutes. Rigged by a new Weta owner. Some of the fastest F18 teams in the world take 45min-1 hour to rig their boat working as a team of two.

2) The Weta is easy to store-it fits in with the Lasers at our club vs. requiring a separate parking spot like a A-Cat, F16 or F18.

3) The Weta is fun. It isn't nearly as fast as a modern spin beach cat. It is regularly last around the course, but the grin is always big!

 

The downsides are they aren't as fast as a F16, F18, or A-Cat, and may not have the same level of competition. They also carry a modest price tag, last I checked a good used F16 and F18 were cheaper than a new Weta, and the used market wasn't very active (may have changed).

 

We regularly peak in the low 20 kts on the N20 and F18. 14 kts of boat speed is not "on the edge" in a modern beach cat. We are doing 12 kts upwind!! Performance beach cats can get hairy in over 18 kts of breeze depending on crew weight but we and many other have continued racing the Nacra 20 in well over 25 kts of breeze. Much more important is wave state, we've had miserable days in 15kts of breeze when the waves are steep and short.



#20 bhyde

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 09:08 PM

Having owned and sailed my Weta for over four years in San Francisco, I can honestly say that it is by far the most enjoyable small boats to sail I've ever owned. Here's why:

  • It's incredibly easy to rig. If you store the boat with the halyards pre-rigged on the upper half of the mast, and keep the amas rigged with the spin sheets (it will fold up with them on), it takes less than 20 minutes to rig the boat. That means ready-to-sail with jib, main, and screacher hoisted and blades on. It should only take you an hour if you are doing it the first couple of times. I takes longer to put on your wetsuit/pfd/safety gear.
  • Every piece of the boat can be easily handled by a single, normal strength person. The mast is a 2-piece unit that is easy to step - no tools, no pivots, nothing. Just pick it up and slap it on.
  • It can be solo sailed in just about any wind range and sea state. I've had mine out in 35kts+ with full sails (jib, main screacher) and it's an absolute blast. Not conditions for a beginner, but an experienced small boat or Laser sailor would not have a problem. I never had a day where, in the back of my mind, I was thinking, "I really wish I was at the dock right now." If you can handle a Laser in 15kts, you won't   hesitate to put the Weta in when it's blowing 25kts.
  • You can sail the Weta for hours (like 8 hours) without getting tired. The physical demands are so low that you don't come back to the dock completely exhausted. Hiking on the boat is really just sitting on the weather ama. There is very little strain on your back or abs. It looks like you're working but you're not. If you adjust the harness correctly, it provides excellent back support while hiking.
  • It's hard to capsize the boat if you're not a complete retard. I've done it three times. It is way more forgiving than any beach cat and there is plenty of warning it's coming. If the leeward tramp is underwater and you're not easing or turning down, that's not really the boats fault. I've never pitchpole the boat and only know one local sailor that has, and that was in big waves, big wind, racing, and not really believing it could be done. 
  • If you capsize in deep water, it takes less than 2 minutes to right and get going again. The amas self bail and will drain in under a minute. If you stick the mast in the mud (I've done it), it takes longer and requires a different technique, but still only takes about 5 minutes. If you stick the mast into a rock covered bottom, too bad, you're going to buy a new mast. Try any of the above with an A-Cat and see how you like shelling out $5K for new mast.
  • The boat is rugged as hell. I beat the ever-loving shit out of my boat and I never had a major failure of any kind. The sum total of my damage over 4 years of hard sailing was a couple of broken shackles, some broken battens and a lot of dock rash. I went though 3 jibs, 2 screahers, and 2 mains. Ok, I did drop the rig once but that was my fault. I forgot to tighten a shackle and it didn't damage the rig or sails when it happened. I repaired it at the dock and was sailing in 30 minutes.
  • It's easy to maneuver. It turns in it's own wake, it backs easily, and it stops on a dime, so getting in and out of tight places won't scare the shit out of you and pre-race jockeying is a blast.
  • You can put a couple of kids on it and not have to worry about some death and destruction scenario. 

So it's an easy boat to own and sail. That's why, like the Laser, it so popular. It's not a Porsche, it's a Miata (I own both, so I know). It's a lot of bang for the buck, and more importantly, it's a boat you can always sail, regardless of the conditions, and still have fun. 



#21 madboutcats

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:34 PM

I only arc up when people post rubbish, I have said before that the Weta is a wonderful boat for what it is and has a definite place in the fleet but when

unShirley's post said

"but when the wind pipes up and those boats are capsizing or their owners are hiding on the beach in the fetal position, the Weta owners are Gennaker reaching with big smiles on their faces."

 

Dave if mid teens is 18kts, what's high teens?

 

If you are on a Weta reaching solo with gennaker in heaps of wind as far back as you can go out and back on the ama the leeward bow is under water and it is very tiring unless you turn down wind 

I am not an expert on sailing but I do have experience on a lot of multis

tikipete here's a vid of my wife and I in 25 to 30kts look and laugh yeah we do go over, yeah she does fall off the boat but we raced a proper course with a mixed fleet including the reefed monos

 http://www.youtube.c...I4T0bbaiC7LIVMg

lets see unshirleys pics



#22 Nacradriver

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:37 PM

"but when the wind pipes up and those boats are capsizing or their owners are hiding on the beach in the fetal position, the Weta owners are Gennaker reaching with big smiles on their faces."

 

He must have been thinking about the beachcats sailors in San Diego and Long Beach, CA....  sissies I say!



#23 bhyde

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 12:50 AM

I only arc up when people post rubbish, I have said before that the Weta is a wonderful boat for what it is and has a definite place in the fleet but when

unShirley's post said

"but when the wind pipes up and those boats are capsizing or their owners are hiding on the beach in the fetal position, the Weta owners are Gennaker reaching with big smiles on their faces."

 

Dave if mid teens is 18kts, what's high teens?

 

If you are on a Weta reaching solo with gennaker in heaps of wind as far back as you can go out and back on the ama the leeward bow is under water and it is very tiring unless you turn down wind 

I am not an expert on sailing but I do have experience on a lot of multis

tikipete here's a vid of my wife and I in 25 to 30kts look and laugh yeah we do go over, yeah she does fall off the boat but we raced a proper course with a mixed fleet including the reefed monos

 http://www.youtube.c...I4T0bbaiC7LIVMg

lets see unshirleys pics

 

I'll see your 30kts and raise you 37kts. How 'bout some waves too? For 42 miles! Big fun!

 



#24 Tornado_ALIVE

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 01:54 AM

As far as rigging time, an A class or Taipan takes 20 minutes to rig.  I have seen Tornadoes put together from beam and tramp off stage to fully rigged in under an hour.

 

I have raced against Wetas on my Taipan 4.9 cat rigged and generally race 3 laps to their 1.  H16 would not be too far behind us.  Wetas are more on par with the H14s.

 

They are a great boat for those who want to sail with less effort such as a newbie, or someone who is older or less mobile.  A beach cat is  a different animal.



#25 madboutcats

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 03:13 AM

I only arc up when people post rubbish, I have said before that the Weta is a wonderful boat for what it is and has a definite place in the fleet but when

unShirley's post said

"but when the wind pipes up and those boats are capsizing or their owners are hiding on the beach in the fetal position, the Weta owners are Gennaker reaching with big smiles on their faces."

 

Dave if mid teens is 18kts, what's high teens?

 

If you are on a Weta reaching solo with gennaker in heaps of wind as far back as you can go out and back on the ama the leeward bow is under water and it is very tiring unless you turn down wind 

I am not an expert on sailing but I do have experience on a lot of multis

tikipete here's a vid of my wife and I in 25 to 30kts look and laugh yeah we do go over, yeah she does fall off the boat but we raced a proper course with a mixed fleet including the reefed monos

 http://www.youtube.c...I4T0bbaiC7LIVMg

lets see unshirleys pics

 

I'll see your 30kts and raise you 37kts. How 'bout some waves too? For 42 miles! Big fun!

 

I saw that video and thought it was good sailing and great fun but that was not 37 knots and a reach, you had a luffing kite and flat boat with a guy playing one armed, when it gets windy on a Weta you guys seem to turn down to keep your ama's up onto a very broad reach or what a cat sailor would use as their hot down wind angle, in that video I would guess you were pointing up and luffing, just like I taught the new people on the weta. You must have some video of you on a proper reach, would love to see a windy session with full spinnaker and sails trimmed



#26 bhyde

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 03:30 AM

As far as rigging time, an A class or Taipan takes 20 minutes to rig.  I have seen Tornadoes put together from beam and tramp off stage to fully rigged in under an hour.

 

I have raced against Wetas on my Taipan 4.9 cat rigged and generally race 3 laps to their 1.  H16 would not be too far behind us.  Wetas are more on par with the H14s.

 

They are a great boat for those who want to sail with less effort such as a newbie, or someone who is older or less mobile.  A beach cat is  a different animal.

 

 

I raced my I14 against Lasers and Finns and did 3 laps to their 1. Whoopi fucking doo. Laser and Finn sailors must be a bunch of old men. Is that how the logic works?

 

A-Cat and Taipan rigged in 20 minutes. Solo? You cannot be serious.



#27 bhyde

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 03:45 AM

 

I only arc up when people post rubbish, I have said before that the Weta is a wonderful boat for what it is and has a definite place in the fleet but when

unShirley's post said

"but when the wind pipes up and those boats are capsizing or their owners are hiding on the beach in the fetal position, the Weta owners are Gennaker reaching with big smiles on their faces."

 

Dave if mid teens is 18kts, what's high teens?

 

If you are on a Weta reaching solo with gennaker in heaps of wind as far back as you can go out and back on the ama the leeward bow is under water and it is very tiring unless you turn down wind 

I am not an expert on sailing but I do have experience on a lot of multis

tikipete here's a vid of my wife and I in 25 to 30kts look and laugh yeah we do go over, yeah she does fall off the boat but we raced a proper course with a mixed fleet including the reefed monos

 http://www.youtube.c...I4T0bbaiC7LIVMg

lets see unshirleys pics

 

I'll see your 30kts and raise you 37kts. How 'bout some waves too? For 42 miles! Big fun!

 

I saw that video and thought it was good sailing and great fun but that was not 37 knots and a reach, you had a luffing kite and flat boat with a guy playing one armed, when it gets windy on a Weta you guys seem to turn down to keep your ama's up onto a very broad reach or what a cat sailor would use as their hot down wind angle, in that video I would guess you were pointing up and luffing, just like I taught the new people on the weta. You must have some video of you on a proper reach, would love to see a windy session with full spinnaker and sails trimmed

 

 

It's not me in the video, it's a friend. Best VMG is pretty deep in those conditions. And more importantly, boat control. There might be some video around of some Wetas blast reaching in 25kts+, but I don't have any. With 25kts+, in a true broad reach (90 degrees true), I don't think anyone is going to put the screaher out. The boat would be totally over powered. 



#28 madboutcats

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 07:11 AM

I've had the gen out on a proper reach on the Weta solo above 20 kts and like I said in my above post the leeward ama goes under water, if fact I've sailed with the leeward ama under water, I've pushed it that hard that not only was the ama under but the bow was near the water it's heaps of fun but really tiring, I've got video of me doing it but I'm over with the show and tell. 

DaveK said in the above post

"Again.... you demonstrate bad sailing if your dragging an ama buried in the water. That's extremely slow and of course that would load up the genneker."

Doesn't sound like he's had to sail a triangular course in proper wind.

BHyde said

It's not me in the video, it's a friend. Best VMG is pretty deep in those conditions. And more importantly, boat control. There might be some video around of some Wetas blast reaching in 25kts+, but I don't have any. With 25kts+, in a true broad reach (90 degrees true), I don't think anyone is going to put the screaher out. The boat would be totally over powered. This is what started me in this thread with "unshirley gennaker reaching while the cat sailors were in the fetal position"

A-Cat and Taipan rigged in 20 minutes. Solo? You cannot be serious.

That's easy to do I used to leave my wires attached on the A class go to the beach stand the mast up, tighten the stays, push the sail up, put the centreboards in and sail, it takes me 35 mins on my Nacra 5.8 

 

For hopefully the last time I will state that the Weta is a wonderful boat for what it is but it is not a giant killer or super safe, buy one and sail it and you will enjoy it but do not believe a novice can go out in 18 knots it is not true and the reason I am so hot on this is I have had to rescue a novice on a Weta that I told not to go out but he believed the bull shit he had read. If you guys make factual statement like I have made you won't get called



#29 Scarecrow

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 07:26 AM

Rigging a taipan in 20 minutes is easy. It is worth noting that at regattas in Austalia most Taipan will actually take their mast down overnight.

Just don't tell my wife this or she'll question why I go to the club so early. :ph34r:



#30 Tornado_ALIVE

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 09:20 AM


As far as rigging time, an A class or Taipan takes 20 minutes to rig.  I have seen Tornadoes put together from beam and tramp off stage to fully rigged in under an hour.

 

I have raced against Wetas on my Taipan 4.9 cat rigged and generally race 3 laps to their 1.  H16 would not be too far behind us.  Wetas are more on par with the H14s.

 

They are a great boat for those who want to sail with less effort such as a newbie, or someone who is older or less mobile.  A beach cat is  a different animal.

 

 

I raced my I14 against Lasers and Finns and did 3 laps to their 1. Whoopi fucking doo. Laser and Finn sailors must be a bunch of old men. Is that how the logic works?

 

A-Cat and Taipan rigged in 20 minutes. Solo? You cannot be serious.

 

"Whoopi fucking doo" - I personally don't care but someone asked for a comparison, so I thought I would add a realistic comparison rather than one of a one eyed Weta fan.  And yes, a Weta is an old mans boat :P   Arm chair sailing, not that there is anything wrong with that :D

 

"A-Cat and Taipan rigged in 20 minutes. Solo? You cannot be serious." - Dam right, 20 minutes.  I have seen some do it in 15.



#31 unShirley

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 03:50 PM

I find it unfortunate that madaboutcats feels the need to attack the veracity of my posts.  I stand by what I have posted as true and accurate accounts of my own experience.  That madaboutcats has had a different experience seems to be evident, but in no way negates my accounts as rubbish as he claims. That he took offense at my "fetal position" remark.....please note the third line of my signature.

 

No, I have never encouraged a novice to go sailing on any boat in 18 kts of wind.

 

Yes, one does have to drive off (sail deeper) when the lee ama begins to bury.  That is just good, prudent seamanship.  If madaboutcats ever sails on a larger tri in high winds, I hope he will remember that.

 

There are pictures in my Yahoo photo album (#147) of me sailing in gale conditions, but, being a prudent sailor, it is under main alone.

I have used all three sails in wind in the mid to high 20s with a big grin on my face.  No, I wasn't "just sitting there."  I was sailing in a highly focused manner constantly trimming the gennaker and playing waves.

 

Yes, the Weta fits a different market niche than F18s and A-Cats.  Yes, I am on the down side of middle age, rapidly approaching elderly and have raced Hobie 16s (among numerous other boats) when I was much younger.

 

madaboutcats, I belive you have read into my posts things that I never said or implied. 



#32 AClass USA 230

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 05:06 PM

Weta is an incredibly fun boat to sail. Great alternative for a singlehanded sailor not interested in the expense of keeping up in the A-Class development game or the extra weight/size of an F-16. The boat sails more like a planing skiff with training wheels. I've personally seen 8-9 knots upwind and 13-14 knots downwind in 12-14 knots of breeze with my 95 lb wife sailing on one with me. Yes you give up some performance but the boat sails so well it makes it a really fun experience. I've sailed one twice and enjoyed both times a lot. I could see myself getting one in the future.

 

Regarding big breeze, not sure about the A-Cat sailors in a fetal position any time the breeze is over 18 knots. My butt just gets real puckered up and I'll get on the water up to 20 knots but I know where to draw the line on the fun/risk factor. I take those who state they have sailed their boats in "gales" with a grain of salt. Once the breeze gets over 25 knots, a beach cat or tri starts to get lifted off the water, for big balls experts only unless you want to be a safety liability on the water or become some kind of statistic. A-Cats typically do not turtle if the top of the mast is sealed and the latest foil and rudder winglets makes sailing in the high teens up to the class max of 22 knots much less scary. Upwind in 22-25 knots is not really too bad as long as the sea state is not launching you (remember the boat weighs just 165 lbs). Downwind in over 20 knots you have the option to go low, pull the daggerboards up 50%, and get in the back of the bus and then it's relatively controlled and efficient VMG wise. But I think even the best beach cat sailors start to head to the beach at around 25 knots. You're just cruisin for a bruisin at that point.

 

Good Luck.



#33 unShirley

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 06:01 PM

Gale warning, October of 2009.

Attached Files



#34 Crump's Brother

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 06:29 PM

Photoshopped!!!

 

How you make it outside in those conditions, pretty nasty @ breakwall eh?



#35 Wayne

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 06:30 PM

madboutcats,

 

Go and do a tybee 500 and then come back here and spout off about all your experience, and teach" us some things.

 

In the video, the kite is collapsing, not luffing because he is driving off so deep in the puffs.  The kite is gettting blanketed by the main.  The groove is very narrow in this much wind. 

 

I drove a Nacra 1000 miles in a little race called the Worrell back in the day, so I know just a little about this.

 

I only arc up when people post rubbish, I have said before that the Weta is a wonderful boat for what it is and has a definite place in the fleet but when

unShirley's post said

"but when the wind pipes up and those boats are capsizing or their owners are hiding on the beach in the fetal position, the Weta owners are Gennaker reaching with big smiles on their faces."

 

Dave if mid teens is 18kts, what's high teens?

 

If you are on a Weta reaching solo with gennaker in heaps of wind as far back as you can go out and back on the ama the leeward bow is under water and it is very tiring unless you turn down wind 

I am not an expert on sailing but I do have experience on a lot of multis

tikipete here's a vid of my wife and I in 25 to 30kts look and laugh yeah we do go over, yeah she does fall off the boat but we raced a proper course with a mixed fleet including the reefed monos

 http://www.youtube.c...I4T0bbaiC7LIVMg

lets see unshirleys pics

 

I'll see your 30kts and raise you 37kts. How 'bout some waves too? For 42 miles! Big fun!

 

I saw that video and thought it was good sailing and great fun but that was not 37 knots and a reach, you had a luffing kite and flat boat with a guy playing one armed, when it gets windy on a Weta you guys seem to turn down to keep your ama's up onto a very broad reach or what a cat sailor would use as their hot down wind angle, in that video I would guess you were pointing up and luffing, just like I taught the new people on the weta. You must have some video of you on a proper reach, would love to see a windy session with full spinnaker and sails trimmed



#36 unShirley

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 07:51 PM

Photoshopped!!!

 

How you make it outside in those conditions, pretty nasty @ breakwall eh?

Still in the harbor but heading out.  Yes, she will stuff, but not even close to capsizing

Attached Files



#37 unShirley

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 07:52 PM

the breakwall:

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#38 madboutcats

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 10:44 PM

unShirley stated 

"The Weta is faster than the roto-moulded resort Hobies. It is almost, but not quite as fast as the venerable H16

The Nacras and A-Cats will crush it, but when the wind pipes up and those boats are capsizing or their owners are hiding on the beach in the fetal position, the Weta owners are Gennaker reaching with big smiles on their faces."

I stated

"I saw that video and thought it was good sailing and great fun but that was not 37 knots and a reach"

I have enough time on the Weta to stand by that comment

Wayne I have never said I am a good sailor my videos show me warts and all, I said I instructed people that was only because nobody else in this town would do it. I personally purchased 5 small cats and taught kids, then when the Weta was acquired by the club I taught adults on the Weta. I do the longest beachcat race in Aus and would love to do the Texas 300 but all of this has nothing to do with this thread. 



#39 AClass USA 230

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 09:48 AM

When the breeze builds over 25 knots, you start to see blowing foam or "spindrift". I've done a lot of windsurfing in high winds in the hi-20's with maybe some gusts near 30 knots using a 3.5 m2 sail. In conditions strong enough for me to use that size sail, there is a lot of wind blown spray. In the Gorge video above, there is never over 25 knots in the video. Look at the sailboards in that video using at least 4.5-5.0 m2 sails. Maybe it did blow 37 knots at some point but not during what is shown. UnShirley, your pics look like a lot of fun, but it looks to me like you are sailing in 20-25 knots. If it was a true "gale" conditions (over 30 knots) as you labeled it, there'd be a lot of "smoke" on the water.

I'd agree a Weta is probably easier to sail in high wind (20-25 knots) than an F-16/18 or A-Class but I think only up to the mid 20's. At that point I'd much rather be on a sailboard with the proper size sail. Faster and safer.

#40 munt

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 03:48 PM

yeah, that's right, don't listen to unshirley. After all, he only has about 40 years of surfing and ocean sailing experience. I was at the harbor on the day his pictures were taken and I can assure you it was blowing mid 30s. Reason for lack of "spindrift" is that there's no fetch in that zone. On the big ocean side of that picture you will note the "spindrift" taking the form of a large wave pounding the top of the breakwall. The weather service and coast guard around here use these new devices called "wind instruments" and they announce the readings on this thing called a "radio." The info is also projected on a magic box known as a "computer." I used all of these resources as well as seeing it with my own salt encrusted eyes to affirm that unshirley was telling the truth when he manned-up and sailed on that fateful day.

#41 madboutcats

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 04:18 AM

Let it go guys, I've only been sailing for 10 years but I can tell you that it doesn't count as gennaker reaching if you don't unfurl it. The Weta is a great boat and like any smaller boat with a relatively small main sail they can be sailed in extreme conditions relatively safely under main only, I do it on my small cats at times, but anyone that has sailed in heavy weather knows that unShirley was pulling his pud when he said

"The Nacras and A-Cats will crush it, but when the wind pipes up and those boats are capsizing or their owners are hiding on the beach in the fetal position, the Weta owners are Gennaker reaching with big smiles on their faces"

and as for sailing in 37 knots under gennaker and keeping your bow high and dry bwaahaahaa, do you know how fast you are going to accomplish that feat? Those windsurfers didn't even jump one little wave, come on use your brains!



#42 tikipete

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 05:06 AM

Sailing in anything over 15 knots is work. I don't do work. 



#43 eric e

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 09:27 AM

who was asking about 2nd hand wetas?

 

$6500 for #18 in traverse city, mi

 

http://sailsportmari...e=index&cPath=5



#44 Nacradriver

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 09:09 PM

unShirley was pulling his pud when he said

"The Nacras and A-Cats will crush it, but when the wind pipes up and those boats are capsizing or their owners are hiding on the beach in the fetal position, the Weta owners are Gennaker reaching with big smiles on their faces"

and as for sailing in 37 knots under gennaker and keeping your bow high and dry bwaahaahaa, do you know how fast you are going to accomplish that feat? Those windsurfers didn't even jump one little wave, come on use your brains!

 

 

Actually, no he is not, we have races here that others won't come to because of our wind...  The prefer the safe confines of thier little harbors and soft beaches.... 

 

Even had one very respected sailor in the F-18 community note that "the wind in Ventura will blow dogs off chains, dem some gnarly sailors there!"

 

Don't belevie it your welcome to crew with me anytime.... that is if course you don't start screaming for your mommy! :lol:   Yes, I have had that!



#45 unShirley

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 02:51 PM

I apologize to MA readers that I stooped so low as to get in a pissing match with madaboutcats.

 

 

 

madaboutcats, you are right, I am just a pud puller. You best put me on ignore.



#46 tikipete

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:55 PM

The thing about the Weta that I can't get out of my mind is the belief that it's safer because you don't have to trapeze. When I was younger I sailed alone in the Gulf a lot. I'm not willing to do that now because the F16 is a really powered up boat and you can find yourself separated quite easily.  I don't suppose trapezing off shore unsupported was ever a good idea...



#47 eric e

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 10:38 PM

a nacra 5.2 is

 

8' x 17' x 28?' ie tall and narrow

 

Attached File  ccend.jpg   669.33K   9 downloads

 

a weta is

 

12' x 14' x 20?' ie shorter and wider

 

Attached File  wetaend.jpg   243.96K   8 downloads

 

pretty easy to see 

 

which one gives up stability for speed

 

and which speed for stability

 

 

 

 

 

 



#48 bhyde

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 05:00 AM

The thing about the Weta that I can't get out of my mind is the belief that it's safer because you don't have to trapeze. When I was younger I sailed alone in the Gulf a lot. I'm not willing to do that now because the F16 is a really powered up boat and you can find yourself separated quite easily.  I don't suppose trapezing off shore unsupported was ever a good idea...

 

Getting off any multi (tri or cat) is a bad idea if you are alone. That's one of the reasons I was a little fearful of my A-Cat. Miss the trap hook and you could have a bad day if it's blowing. It goes downwind capsized much faster than you can swim. The Weta is no exception. There's nothing preventing you from missing the hiking straps and watching the boat sail away after you roll over the side. However the Weta does come with a harness that anchors to the center of the cockpit. Solo sailing I always used it and felt pretty confident I wouldn't get separated from the boat. Of course, someone is now going to say how dangerous it is to wear a harness when a boat capsizes because you could get trapped under it and blah, blah, blah. 



#49 Tornado_ALIVE

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 05:53 AM

I prefer to just keep hold of the main sheet if I go over. Never let go of the boat.

#50 RedTuna

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 01:36 AM

Gale warning, October of 2009.

Thanks for the higher rez pics, unShirley.  I'd long ago taken the firehose pic off Wetamarine for use in my desktop slideshow. Nice to know the story.

 

As for OP's question, my H16 seemed a little faster than my Weta does, but I suck.  A couple of good sailors, say like Berntsen and Weston, might be different.  Here's a pic Gordon Lyon took of them spanking some cat pretty badly.

 

287ouad.jpg



#51 RedTuna

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 05:56 PM



#52 madboutcats

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 11:20 AM

There's a thread going in the Australian Catsailor .net site about Weta handicaps, they are proposing to give two up Weta's the same rating as the slowest 14ft Cats, just in front of a 14ft Hobie with no jib, I've said they are better than that, in my usual style I have been blunt and started a fuss but what is a fair rating?

Here's a link to the thread

http://www.catsailor...tri/#entry31523



#53 eric e

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 12:21 PM

for a starting handicap i'd say put the solo weta midway between the h16 and h14

 

and the 2 man weta same as the solo h14

 

adjust as the results come in



#54 tikipete

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 02:07 PM

I'd have to rate the Weta a good bit higher especially as the wind picks up. I'm not sure at what windspeed it becomes over powered but it seems stable to me at 15 knots.

 

Downwind with it's reacher I'd have to rate the Weta way above either the H16 or H14



#55 RedTuna

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 02:09 PM

The Weta Class France has established both ratings with the French Sailing Federation and has provided data for the calculations.

 

http://translate.goo...iw=1138&bih=556

 

Click on "Boat" then "Gauge" to follow the link to the Federation tables.

 

H14   1,395

H14   1,259 (Turbo)

 

Weta

Double  1,308 (3 Sails)

Solo      1,177 (3 Sails)

 

No idea if this is for triangle racing like our Portsmouth.



#56 madboutcats

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 11:02 PM

Well you guys have surprised me I feel I spent my time in this thread and others saying you weren't as good as what appeared to be posted, then I get in another thread saying the Weta is better than they think and now talking racing your rating yourselves against a Hobie 14 without a jib.

Well Charlie that's the answer to your original question at the start of this thread



#57 RedTuna

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 02:47 AM

I see that I didn't add the H16, as I meant to in response tikipete's statements.  Which I agree with.

 

H16 1,195 (except Europe)

 

If you take the effort to click through, you'll see there are some 250 other French multihull ratings to compare.



#58 rd2971

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 01:50 AM

Amongst the "friendly" banter there is some good info in this thread.

As a wrong side of 50 sailor, the stability that the Weta offers is a big plus.  It is amazingly good fun and, for a new boat, amazingly good value.

Although I store the boat at my club I still pack it down after sailing and put on the Weta cover.  It is not a big deal to setup or pack, a big plus.

 

A useful theme in the thread is to sail the Weta against the performance dinghys rather than cats.  I think that makes a lot of sense and will be seeking to move to that class at my club.  While a trimaran is a multihull, it is not a catamaran!  IMHO no self respecting H16 crew should be over-taken by a Weta (unless they are upside down!).   

 

While said disparagingly, the comment that the Weta is an "old man's" boat, although somewhat harsh, has a grain of truth to it.   As I mentioned earlier, stability of the trimaran is a big plus for me.  It is a great boat for the older dinghy/catamaran sailor who still enjoys performance sailing in an easier to sail package.   Rather than drifting off to bigger boats the "mature" sailor can still enjoy the fun of small boats.



#59 tikipete

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 02:03 PM

I don't see the H16 faster around the cans, reaching probably. DDW is a killer for the H16.

 

I notice Smythe has been sailing the Weta a bit so I can't imagine it's a bad boat.



#60 unShirley

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:39 PM

I don't see the H16 faster around the cans, reaching probably. DDW is a killer for the H16.

 

I notice Smythe has been sailing the Weta a bit so I can't imagine it's a bad boat.

 

I have sailed in several W/L regattas in which the Wetas started 5 minutes after the H16s.  The fastest Wetas caught the slowest h16s. But the fastest H16s were much more than 5 minutes ahead of the fastest Wetas.  H16s are bigger, more powerful boats, therefore a bit faster, a bit harder to sail.

 

Smythe was recruited at the last minute to sail with a light, female sailor, Toni, in a heavy wind regatta at his home YC.  Naturally, they won. It is one of the few times (maybe the only time?) that a two up Weta won a regatta sailing against singlehanders.  He was also flown out to the West Coast championships to again sail with Toni. It was part of the "trophy" for winning in Florida.  They finished MOF but Randy was interviewed and quoted as saying he had a lot of fun.

Other than those two regattas, though, I am not sure Smyth has done much sailing in Wetas.



#61 tikipete

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 01:12 AM

You're taking into account the depth of talent in the H16 class? The H16's been around such a long time I'd be shocked if the 
Weta fleet had the same depth of talent.

 

I'm not going to argue the point though, H16 was my first cat and I loved it, still do. At 65 y.o. a Weta is a possibility, a cat that requires trapezing is out of the question.

 

Whoever made the remark about Weta being an old man's boat can kiss my ass. I know what it took to get this far that ass hole doesn't.



#62 BobBill

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 07:55 AM

Bhyde and tkipete +1.

 

But that does not mean I disagree with other views. We are all different, that is, incompetent to some extent in different places together.

 

I love the Weta, but did not go that route, which I may regret, for two reasons.

 

Not a good beer hauler and I cannot mess with it...tinker with rigs, spars and hulls, etc. Set up seems simple enough.

 

I decided to build a simple modern material outrigger, recycling Hobie 18 and 16 hulls, modeled on the venerable Malibu Outrigger and Whites Dragonfly, and will be on the bay and have an interest in the river run...woo hoo that looks to be the ultimate reach...better than the French trench.

 

Tikipete, I know from where you speak.



#63 BobBill

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 07:11 PM

Gale warning, October of 2009.

Thanks for the higher rez pics, unShirley.  I'd long ago taken the firehose pic off Wetamarine for use in my desktop slideshow. Nice to know the story.

 

As for OP's question, my H16 seemed a little faster than my Weta does, but I suck.  A couple of good sailors, say like Berntsen and Weston, might be different.  Here's a pic Gordon Lyon took of them spanking some cat pretty badly.

 

287ouad.jpg

Some cat??? Looks to be you were playing an AC 45 just off the Rock...you devil. What is the black thing in the foreground...?






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