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An Alternate View of Obamacare

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#1 badlatitude

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 08:17 PM

The Rude Pundit: Obamacare Is Going to Murder Republicans
At some point after October 1, Obamacare is going to saunter into a Republican congressional caucus meeting and stone cold murder the fuck out of everyone there. Obamacare is gonna strangle John Boehner until he turns a deep persimmon color. It's gonna shove Eric Cantor's glasses down his throat. And, fuck it, why not, it's gonna break Louis Gohmert's head open to reveal the hollow space inside. Then, bloodsoaked and sweaty, it'll head over to the Senate to do it all over again.

As far as the GOP is concerned, the full implementation of the Affordable Care Act is their appointment with the executioner. That's why they have desperately attempted to defund, discredit, and disappear the thing. Forty votes to overturn it in the House. Threats in the Senate and House to hold the debt ceiling or the budget hostage if it's not defunded. A campaign of disinformation that has succeeded in making 44% of Americans unsure if it's still a law.

And let's be honest here: The Obama administration and the AFA's supporters in Congress have totally fucked up in making people understand exactly what the hell the thing does, beyond easy shit like "No caps" or "Kids can stay on your insurance until 26." Transforming health care for tens of millions of Americans is a huge undertaking, made more complicated by the demands of asshole Republicans and assholier conservative Democrats, so of course it's gonna be hard to explain until it's in effect, no matter how many Katy Perry tweets or Bill Clinton speeches try to help. On October 1, the health insurance exchange opens and people can start shopping and discover for themselves that Obamacare won't rape their dogs, kill their parents, and eat their childrens' hearts while Kenyan drums beat savagely in the background.

Unless, of course, you're a Republican member of Congress. Then Obamacare is coming for you.

See, despite the inevitable bumps along the way that will be exploited to the extreme by the panicked right, there's going to be time after time of some fundamentalist yahoo in Alabama or some gun-fellating nut in Michigan or some racist jackal in Arizona grudgingly getting insurance and realizing that, holy shit, they can get that weird mole looked at or get a check-up that turns up the clogged artery that leads to the operation that saves a life. And then, a few years down the road, everyone will just expect Obamacare to be there, like Medicare.

If you belong to a party that has based its very existence on keeping government out of people's lives (except when it comes to abortion rights, GLBT rights, building permits for mosques, and so very much more), if you've spent the better part of the last few years attempting to say how terrible it will be, then the rate of success of Obamacare is inversely proportional to your worth as a politician. Because if the fundy yahoos, gun fellaters, and racist jackals decide they like having their infections treated by doctors without paying thousands of dollars for it, then your ideology is dead, murdered by Obamacare.

The philosophical contortions that Republicans do can sometimes make circus performers say, "How the fuck did you get your leg back there?" But considering that the GOP spent the 2010 midterm elections attacking Democrats with the lie that Medicare would be cut, it's apparent that if a government-run program is popular, Republicans will stumble over themselves to support it (except when it's an off-year, when they'll try to cut it).

Obamacare's success is a cocked gun, a noose around the neck, a knife near the heart of Republicanism. Unless they somehow pull a Houdini-like escape, Republicans will be drowned by Obamacare like so many rats in a weighted sack chucked into the river of their own bullshit.

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/

 



#2 White Cracker

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 03:46 AM

2010 midterms, anyone? Anyone?

#3 Saorsa

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 03:48 AM

2010 midterms, anyone? Anyone?

 

I think the results are in on that one.



#4 Olsonist

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 04:01 AM

They are in. Has the Tea Party class of 2010 achieved anything other than its election?



#5 Saorsa

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 04:02 AM

They are in. Has the Tea Party class of 2010 achieved anything other than its election?

 

They enthusiastically supported President Obama's sequester.



#6 Olsonist

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 04:23 AM

So if that goes away they'll have done nothing?



#7 zzrider

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 09:34 AM

Who the fuck cares?  We don't have a "two party system" in this country anyway.  What we have is a unified political ruling class that keeps its ignorant population of serfs occupied with the illusion of political choice.  Your citation of some partisan hack blog written by a raging liberal English professor from CUNY just proves that it works magnificently.

 

I don't give a rat's ass if Obamacare (or anything else) murders the fuck out of the "Republican Party".  Like it makes one bit of difference.



#8 White Cracker

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 10:55 AM

So if that goes away they'll have done nothing?

If "Nothing" is holding back out of control Obama spending, well then, that is a "yes."

The sooner Obama plays along, the sooner he can start taking credit for it.

#9 LenP

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 10:55 AM

People remember a boot in the nuts 10x as long and with 10x the emotion than they do a pat on the back. Ocare could be a smashing success and it won't do squat to salvage a dem majority in the senate, let alone murder the fuck out of Republicans. That post shows a complete misunderstanding of the nature of our election politics.



#10 learningj24

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 11:10 AM

I saw an analysis that proposed that Republicans, in the back rooms, KNOW that ACA is going to hammer them once people realize that it's good for them.  Just like Bush's Drug benefit (I was wrong about that one, it's a good thing).  The reason R's are so activated about  repeal, according to this analysis, is that they know that they will lose the House and are desperate to get this repealed while they can.

 

In a larger observation, it seems there's the beginnings of pushback against Team Red.  Even here in the land of unrelieved crimson, people are beginning to look at the Republican agendas and actions as bad for the state.  Old Democratic powerhouses are coming out of retirement to run for state offices to counter the actions of the R's.  '14 is looking interesting.



#11 zzrider

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 11:17 AM

Just like Bush's Drug benefit (I was wrong about that one, it's a good thing. 

 

This sentence disqualifies you from any serious consideration regarding healthcare-related issues.



#12 White Cracker

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 11:28 AM

I am lovin' my massive cost increases in health insurance since ObamaCare was passed.

That sweet letter that came last week from Blue Cross warning of another unspecified increase and additional loss of features after November 1 sure has me angry at the Republicans.
Can't wait till my insurance hits 30k for a family of 3 (it's already gone from 13k to 20k, with a much higher deductible, since Obamacare was enacted).

#13 zzrider

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 11:40 AM

Don't forget, the massive employment shift to low paying, unbenefitted part-time jobs is another big win for Obamacare.



#14 White Cracker

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 11:57 AM

Why of course, how can we forget, the new class of sub 32 hour employees?
How sweet it is.

#15 White Cracker

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 11:59 AM

The sooner we pass it, the sooner we get to find out what's in it.

#16 Saorsa

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 12:04 PM

So if that goes away they'll have done nothing?

 

Which they are you referring to? If it is the republican they, Obamacare seems to be falling apart which makes their votes to repeal it better than all of the Senate bills to patch it up.  Oh, wait, that hasn't happened either.  Just another nothing from the other side.

 

"... It is a tale, Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury.  Signifying nothing"



#17 Saorsa

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 12:05 PM

I saw an analysis that proposed that Republicans, in the back rooms, KNOW that ACA is going to hammer them once people realize that it's good for them.  Just like Bush's Drug benefit (I was wrong about that one, it's a good thing).  The reason R's are so activated about  repeal, according to this analysis, is that they know that they will lose the House and are desperate to get this repealed while they can.

 

In a larger observation, it seems there's the beginnings of pushback against Team Red.  Even here in the land of unrelieved crimson, people are beginning to look at the Republican agendas and actions as bad for the state.  Old Democratic powerhouses are coming out of retirement to run for state offices to counter the actions of the R's.  '14 is looking interesting.

 

Have they announced what they will do to address the nations problems in the event that they win?



#18 Olsonist

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 01:32 PM

So if that goes away they'll have done nothing?

 
Which they are you referring to? If it is the republican they, Obamacare seems to be falling apart which makes their votes to repeal it better than all of the Senate bills to patch it up.  Oh, wait, that hasn't happened either.  Just another nothing from the other side.
 
"... It is a tale, Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury.  Signifying nothing"

They would be the Tea Party Republican class of 2010. If the sequester is rescinded, what will they have to show for themselves? I suppose y'all could defund the Govmint. The purity of your prescious bodily fluids demands it.

#19 Spatial Ed

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 01:36 PM

I saw an analysis that proposed that Republicans, in the back rooms, KNOW that ACA is going to hammer them once people realize that it's good for them.  Just like Bush's Drug benefit (I was wrong about that one, it's a good thing).  The reason R's are so activated about  repeal, according to this analysis, is that they know that they will lose the House and are desperate to get this repealed while they can.

 

In a larger observation, it seems there's the beginnings of pushback against Team Red.  Even here in the land of unrelieved crimson, people are beginning to look at the Republican agendas and actions as bad for the state.  Old Democratic powerhouses are coming out of retirement to run for state offices to counter the actions of the R's.  '14 is looking interesting.

 

Have they announced what they will do to address the nations problems in the event that they win?

I suppose they could start with 40 consecutive votes reaffirming Obamacare.



#20 Regatta Dog

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 03:53 PM

Another Tea Party group weighs in on Obamacare --

 

AFL-CIO calls ObamaCare 'highly disruptive' to union health plans

 

The AFL-CIO approved a resolution saying that President Obama's health care overhaul will drive up the costs of union-sponsored health plans to the point that workers and employers are forced to abandon them. 

 

In a strongly worded resolution released Wednesday, the federation said that labor unions still support the Affordable Care Act's overall goals of reducing health costs and bringing coverage to all Americans, but added that the law is being implemented in a way that is "highly disruptive" to union health care plans.

 

Some individual unions have complained about the law's impact for months, but the resolution marks the first time the nation's largest labor federation has gone on record embracing that view. Unions were among the most enthusiastic backers of the law when it passed in 2010.  (Link)



#21 Olsonist

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 04:53 PM

Technically, Fox isn't straight up Tea Party. But I see your point.



#22 Regatta Dog

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 05:06 PM

Technically, Fox isn't straight up Tea Party. But I see your point.

 

You can read up on it in that other bastion of conservative thinking, the New York Times - Unions’ Misgivings on Health Law Burst Into View



#23 One of Five

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:21 PM

They are in. Has the Tea Party class of 2010 achieved anything other than its election?

 

Yes, they've successfully stopped a lot of bad legislation. 

 

Sorry. 



#24 Spatial Ed

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 12:22 AM

They are in. Has the Tea Party class of 2010 achieved anything other than its election?

 

Yes, they've successfully stopped a lot of bad legislation. 

 

Sorry. 

So I guess all legislation is bad.  They haven't passed anything since 2010.



#25 Olsonist

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 12:35 AM

ObamaCare doesn't count. Some examples of Senate bills languishing in the House will suffice.

#26 Regatta Dog

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 12:56 AM

 

They are in. Has the Tea Party class of 2010 achieved anything other than its election?

 

Yes, they've successfully stopped a lot of bad legislation. 

 

Sorry. 

So I guess all legislation is bad.  They haven't passed anything since 2010.

 

Thank God goodness, after that turd in the punchbowl that even the AFL-CIO doesn't like.  They have passed legislation.  If you'd do a bit of research you might realize that.  Whatever they've passed or shot down, I think at least they had an opportunity to read it before they realized what was in it.

 

Bill Clinton's view --

 

Some flaws in Obamacare seem like actual errors, according to Clinton. The law, for instance, requires large employers to provide health insurance to employees, but not their family members. This is the case even though spouses and children of the employees will be required by the law to have health insurance, but aren’t eligible for federal subsidies to buy coverage independently. “It’s obviously not fair and bad policy, but it’s not clear to me that anybody intended this,” said Clinton. “I think Congress should fix it.”


As if Obama and his minions would consult Congress on a fix. 
 
"If we can save one child" is so situational.


#27 Olsonist

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 01:06 AM

Yawn.

#28 badlatitude

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 01:08 AM

Pointing out the obvious fact that for the 40 times they voted to defund the ACA, not once did they vote to fix it or even offer their own alternative.



#29 Regatta Dog

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 01:40 AM

Pointing out the obvious fact that for the 40 times they voted to defund the ACA, not once did they vote to fix it or even offer their own alternative.

 

Remember when it was fashionable to call it "Obamacare" with pride instead of "ACA"?  Are you embarrassed now? 

 

Obama held a torch for the working class?  Obamacare ACA has driven millions into part time work.  All is good. 



#30 Spatial Ed

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 01:51 AM

Pointing out the obvious fact that for the 40 times they voted to defund the ACA, not once did they vote to fix it or even offer their own alternative.

 

Remember when it was fashionable to call it "Obamacare" with pride instead of "ACA"?  Are you embarrassed now? 

 

Obama held a torch for the working class?  Obamacare ACA has driven millions into part time work.  All is good. 

I don't have a problem with Obamacare.  When Americans start loving it, we will use it as a hammer against you in 2014 and 2016 and 2020......



#31 Olsonist

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 02:03 AM


Pointing out the obvious fact that for the 40 times they voted to defund the ACA, not once did they vote to fix it or even offer their own alternative.

 
Remember when it was fashionable to call it "Obamacare" with pride instead of "ACA"?  Are you embarrassed now? 
 
Obama held a torch for the working class?  Obamacare ACA has driven millions into part time work.  All is good. 

Remember when it was RomneyCare?
Remember when it was HeritageCare?

No? Why is that?

#32 Regatta Dog

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 02:06 AM

 


Pointing out the obvious fact that for the 40 times they voted to defund the ACA, not once did they vote to fix it or even offer their own alternative.

 
Remember when it was fashionable to call it "Obamacare" with pride instead of "ACA"?  Are you embarrassed now? 
 
Obama held a torch for the working class?  Obamacare ACA has driven millions into part time work.  All is good. 

Remember when it was RomneyCare?
Remember when it was HeritageCare?

No? Why is that?

 

Remeber when Obama owned it?

 

Thought not.



#33 White Cracker

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 02:13 AM

Yawn.

While you are yawning there are others paying attention - so laugh if you like.

 

The bill was  unread, subject to zero debate, and passed in a rush, and it's laughable how some of Obama's biggest cheerleaders are now lining up for exemptions or outright changes in the law. 



#34 White Cracker

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 02:15 AM

 


Pointing out the obvious fact that for the 40 times they voted to defund the ACA, not once did they vote to fix it or even offer their own alternative.

 
Remember when it was fashionable to call it "Obamacare" with pride instead of "ACA"?  Are you embarrassed now? 
 
Obama held a torch for the working class?  Obamacare ACA has driven millions into part time work.  All is good. 

Remember when it was RomneyCare?
Remember when it was HeritageCare?

No? Why is that?

Please , do outline the involvement that each had with Pelosi, Reid, and Obama in 2009 and 2010



#35 White Cracker

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 02:20 AM

 

Pointing out the obvious fact that for the 40 times they voted to defund the ACA, not once did they vote to fix it or even offer their own alternative.

 

Remember when it was fashionable to call it "Obamacare" with pride instead of "ACA"?  Are you embarrassed now? 

 

Obama held a torch for the working class?  Obamacare ACA has driven millions into part time work.  All is good. 

I don't have a problem with Obamacare.  When Americans start loving it, we will use it as a hammer against you in 2014 and 2016 and 2020......

I suppose after the Unions gut chunks of it and other big donors and interest groups receive their exemptions they will have to feign "love".

 

BTW, Pelosi already brought out the Hammer in the spring of 2010, and she had to take a new position after the fall elections (thanks to The Hammer).

Do you really look forward to more of a train wreck in order to make political gains?



#36 Spatial Ed

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 02:20 AM

If Obamacare fails, you all realize the only fall back is single payer.  Don't you?  There is zero way the American public will want to return to healthcare prior to Obamacare.



#37 Regatta Dog

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 02:21 AM

 

 


Pointing out the obvious fact that for the 40 times they voted to defund the ACA, not once did they vote to fix it or even offer their own alternative.

 
Remember when it was fashionable to call it "Obamacare" with pride instead of "ACA"?  Are you embarrassed now? 
 
Obama held a torch for the working class?  Obamacare ACA has driven millions into part time work.  All is good. 

Remember when it was RomneyCare?
Remember when it was HeritageCare?

No? Why is that?

 

Remeber when Obama owned it?

 

Thought not.

 

Allll good.  i have "obama phone"  .



#38 Saorsa

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 02:25 AM

Pointing out the obvious fact that for the 40 times they voted to defund the ACA, not once did they vote to fix it or even offer their own alternative.

 

So what?

 

Hey, why not just offer a global exemption instead of trying to repeal it.  That's what Obama does for his buddies.



#39 White Cracker

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 02:27 AM

If Obamacare fails, you all realize the only fall back is single payer.  Don't you?  There is zero way the American public will want to return to healthcare prior to Obamacare.

How about I show you my insurance bill from 2008 and then compare it to 2013?

There is a 100 percent certainty that I would want to return to pre-ObamaCare.

About a 8,000 dollar per year chance, with a much lower deductible.

 

Hope and Change, from 13 k per year to over 20k for a family of three, with a huge deductible.

Thanks, Obama.



#40 Regatta Dog

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 02:29 AM

If Obamacare fails, you all realize the only fall back is single payer.  Don't you?  There is zero way the American public will want to return to healthcare prior to Obamacare.

 

Yes.  I'll take my wealth elsewhere. 



#41 badlatitude

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 02:36 AM

The indisputable fact is health care is here to stay. Either get on the train or be left behind, there is no way we will ever return to 2008, no matter how bright you try to paint it.



#42 Olsonist

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 02:54 AM

Remeber when Obama owned it?
Thought not.

 
No, I don't remember Obama owning it. I do remember him signing it after the House + Senate passed it.
 

obamacare_signing_ceremony.jpg

 
Then the Supreme Court passed it, again.
Then the American people passed it, again again.

Now that it's passed you might want to read what's in it.



#43 Saorsa

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 03:01 AM

The indisputable fact is health care is here to stay. Either get on the train or be left behind, there is no way we will ever return to 2008, no matter how bright you try to paint it.

 

Uhhhh, there has been health CARE for years. 

 

witch-doctor.jpg

 

This is about health INSURANCE.

 

and, of course, job creation as full time jobs are converted to part time to avoid the expense of paying for the insurance.  Health care will still cost about the same.



#44 WarBird

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 03:11 AM

Yawn.

While you are yawning there are others paying attention - so laugh if you like.

 

The bill was  unread, subject to zero debate, and passed in a rush, and it's laughable how some of Obama's biggest cheerleaders are now lining up for exemptions or outright changes in the law. 

It was "DEEMED" passed



#45 badlatitude

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 03:13 AM

Health insurance that is refined and efficiently structured will positively affect health care. That was the point of Obamacare. Job creation on the other hand, was just an attempt by the Heritage Foundation and others to paint ugly pictures and scare people away.

 

The exaggerated Republican claim that the new health care law “kills jobs” was high on our list of the “Whoppers of 2011.” But the facts haven’t stopped Republicans and their allies from making the “job-killing” claim a major theme of their campaign 2012 TV ads:

  • Five ads by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce attack Democrats by repeating the “Obamacare will kill jobs” refrain.
  • Seven other Chamber spots praise Republicans, using the same theme.
  • An ad from the group Freedom Path, supporting Utah Sen. Orrin Hatch, says the law is “devastating to small business.”
  • Republican Rep. Jo Bonner of Alabama features a large stack of papers he claims are “job-killing regulations and taxes” in one of his spots.

All of this is health-care hooey, aimed at exploiting public concern over continuing high unemployment, with little basis in fact.

As we’ve said before (a few times), experts project that the law will cause a small loss of low-wage jobs — and also some gains in better-paid jobs in the health care and insurance industries.

It’s also expected that more workers will decide to retire earlier, or work fewer hours, when they no longer need employer-sponsored insurance and can obtain it on their own with help from federal subsidies. But that just means fewer people willing to work — and it will free up jobs for those who want them. If anything, that could reduce the jobless rate .http://www.factcheck...hopper-again-2/



#46 Olsonist

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 03:32 AM

It was "DEEMED" passed

 

Introduced Sep 17, 2009

Passed House Oct 08, 2009

Passed Senate with Changes Dec 24, 2009

House Agreed to Changes Mar 21, 2010

Signed by the President Mar 23, 2010

 

http://www.govtrack....ills/111/hr3590

 

Would you like some Tea, sir?



#47 Regatta Dog

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 03:38 AM

It was "DEEMED" passed

 

Introduced Sep 17, 2009

Passed House Oct 08, 2009

Passed Senate with Changes Dec 24, 2009

House Agreed to Changes Mar 21, 2010

Signed by the President Mar 23, 2010

 

http://www.govtrack....ills/111/hr3590

 

Would you like some Tea, sir?

 

The AFL-CIO folks drink coffee. 

 

Thanks Obama!



#48 Saorsa

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 03:50 AM

Health insurance that is refined and efficiently structured will positively affect health care. That was the point of Obamacare.

 

Well, given the number of politically motivated exemptions, delays of implementation for big businesses, total fuckup on the 'exchanges' it sure missed the point by miles.

 

The piece of shit is falling apart.  The end result is going to be a highly patched and polished piece of shit.



#49 Olsonist

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 03:52 AM

Yawn.



#50 Regatta Dog

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 04:23 AM

Yawn.

 

Hey.  If the unions are behind it - go!



#51 Mike G

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 04:43 AM

Health insurance that is refined and efficiently structured will positively affect health care. That was the point of Obamacare.

 

Well, given the number of politically motivated exemptions, delays of implementation for big businesses, total fuckup on the 'exchanges' it sure missed the point by miles.

 

The piece of shit is falling apart.  The end result is going to be a highly patched and polished piece of shit.

When this word "exemptions" is tossed around, what do you mean by that?

Is it a permanent exemption?

Is an exemption given to certain industries until their normal union contract cycle is up, THEN the mandates must be met?

I always kinda figured that congress had pretty good healthcare....so when I see people say they have an exemption...does that mean they want lower-than-the-minimum

allowed?



#52 Mark K

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 05:10 AM


If Obamacare fails, you all realize the only fall back is single payer.  Don't you?  There is zero way the American public will want to return to healthcare prior to Obamacare.

How about I show you my insurance bill from 2008 and then compare it to 2013?
There is a 100 percent certainty that I would want to return to pre-ObamaCare.
About a 8,000 dollar per year chance, with a much lower deductible.
 
Hope and Change, from 13 k per year to over 20k for a family of three, with a huge deductible.
Thanks, Obama.


You probably had one of those rip-off plans. You thought you were covered but actually weren't.

#53 White Cracker

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 10:43 AM

If Obamacare fails, you all realize the only fall back is single payer.  Don't you?  There is zero way the American public will want to return to healthcare prior to Obamacare.

How about I show you my insurance bill from 2008 and then compare it to 2013?There is a 100 percent certainty that I would want to return to pre-ObamaCare.About a 8,000 dollar per year chance, with a much lower deductible. Hope and Change, from 13 k per year to over 20k for a family of three, with a huge deductible.Thanks, Obama.
You probably had one of those rip-off plans. You thought you were covered but actually weren't.
It's a real "fly by night" operation called "blue cross".
You may have heard of it.

#54 Saorsa

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 11:05 AM

 

Health insurance that is refined and efficiently structured will positively affect health care. That was the point of Obamacare.

 

Well, given the number of politically motivated exemptions, delays of implementation for big businesses, total fuckup on the 'exchanges' it sure missed the point by miles.

 

The piece of shit is falling apart.  The end result is going to be a highly patched and polished piece of shit.

When this word "exemptions" is tossed around, what do you mean by that?

Is it a permanent exemption?

Is an exemption given to certain industries until their normal union contract cycle is up, THEN the mandates must be met?

I always kinda figured that congress had pretty good healthcare....so when I see people say they have an exemption...does that mean they want lower-than-the-minimum

allowed?

I mean the exemption that allows them to continue their 'cadillac' plan without paying the extra taxes.  It's supposed to start in 2018 but the hogs are lining up at the trough early.

 

The say it isn't permanent but, then they told us the income tax wasn't either.

 

No, it means that those applying for exemptions want to keep their expensive plan without adding more expense through a 40% excise tax on the value above some threshold.

 

Of course, that only applies to employer plans.  That's one reason why employers are keeping the number of positions steady while converting to part time employment.



#55 White Cracker

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 12:06 PM

 

Health insurance that is refined and efficiently structured will positively affect health care. That was the point of Obamacare.

 

Well, given the number of politically motivated exemptions, delays of implementation for big businesses, total fuckup on the 'exchanges' it sure missed the point by miles.

 

The piece of shit is falling apart.  The end result is going to be a highly patched and polished piece of shit.

When this word "exemptions" is tossed around, what do you mean by that?

Is it a permanent exemption?

Depends. The Brilliance of the law that we had to pass to find out what was in it, was that there were lots of tricks that Obama could use to reward his friends.

The HHS chief (err, that's rather insensitive to Indians, err, sorry, Native Americans) has been handing out exemptions like confetti ever since people started realizing what the law actually would do.

If you are lucky enough to be a labor union or associated Democratic party group, then you just pick up the phone.

Now it turns out that the companies that hire the workers that pay the union dues are getting ready to deal with this piece of shit and making the necessary changes to their personnel packages - and it ain't pretty.

 

Hope and Change - just like Obama promised.

Just kind of ironic that the Unions are crying as the victims, isn't it?



#56 Mark K

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 05:38 PM

 

 

If Obamacare fails, you all realize the only fall back is single payer.  Don't you?  There is zero way the American public will want to return to healthcare prior to Obamacare.

How about I show you my insurance bill from 2008 and then compare it to 2013?There is a 100 percent certainty that I would want to return to pre-ObamaCare.About a 8,000 dollar per year chance, with a much lower deductible. Hope and Change, from 13 k per year to over 20k for a family of three, with a huge deductible.Thanks, Obama.
You probably had one of those rip-off plans. You thought you were covered but actually weren't.
It's a real "fly by night" operation called "blue cross".
You may have heard of it.

 

 How much did it go up from 2003 to 2008? 



#57 Olsonist

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 06:19 PM

Depends on the state as well.

http://money.cnn.com...ums/index.html#

While many residents in New York and California may see sizable decreases in their premiums, Americans in many places could face significant increases if they buy insurance through state-based exchanges next year.

That's because these people live in states where insurers were allowed to sell bare-bones plans and exclude the sick, which has kept costs down.

Under Obamacare, insurers must offer a package of essential benefits -- including maternity, mental health and medications -- and must cover all who apply. But more comprehensive coverage may lead to more expensive insurance plans.

Under Obamacare, all Americans must have insurance coverage starting in 2014 or face penalties of $95 or 1% of family income, whichever is greater. Enrollment in the exchanges begins October 1, with coverage kicking in in January. Plans will come in four tiers, ranging from bronze to platinum.

Some lightly regulated states, including Indiana, Ohio, Florida and South Carolina, have recently released preliminary rate information highlighting steep price increases. Unlike the blue states of California and New York, these are Republican-led states that have strongly opposed the Affordable Care Act, as Obamacare is officially known.

Comparing this year's and next year's plans isn't easy because the structure of the plans is so different. Each state comes up with its own method.

Behind the numbers in 3 key states. In Florida, for instance, officials constructed a hypothetical silver-level plan based on the offerings available today. Then they looked at how the cost of that plan compares to the average silver plan that will be available on the exchange. Florida found premiums will rise between 7.6% and 58.8%, depending on the insurer. The average increase would be 35%.

The main driver of the premium increases is the Obamacare mandate that coverage be offered to everyone, said Kevin McCarty, Florida's insurance commissioner. There are just short of a million enrollees in the individual market in Florida, while 3.8 million are uninsured. The state does not allow new entrants into a "high-risk pool," which provides coverage to the sick.

"People who are in their 50s with high blood pressure have no coverage options," he said.

Ohio, meanwhile, said there would be an average increase of 41% by comparing a trade association's report of premiums for all plans available today with the average premium expected on the exchange.

Indiana officials said prices would rise an average of 72%. But they were looking at the cost of providing care, not actual premiums.

All of these rate hikes must still be reviewed by the federal government and do not take into account the fact that Americans with incomes up to $45,960 for an individual and $94,200 for a family of four will be eligible for federal subsidies.

So why aren't there such big premium increases in other states? New York, for example, already required that insurers provide comprehensive coverage to all who apply. Rates there could fall by half since the pool will expand to include many younger, healthier residents under Obamacare. But New York is more the exception than the rule, experts said.

Rate hikes depend on age and gender. To give consumers a better idea of how premiums will change, CNNMoney took a look at the plans provided by one insurer: Physicians Health Plan of Northern Indiana.

Our analysis found that 21-year-old men will pay a lot more for an exchange plan, but 42-year-old women and 62-year-old men will shell out less for a silver-level plan that comes with a $2,500 deductible and a roughly $25 co-pay for office visits.

Under this scenario, a young man's monthly rate will rise to $214 on the exchange next year, up 63% from today. The woman, however, will pay $284, a drop of more than 7%, while the older man will be charged $615, a nearly 6% decrease. This is because Obamacare requires that women pay the same amount as men and does not allow insurers to charge older participants more than three times the young.

Physicians Health expects most enrollees to sign up for bronze or silver plans, which have lower monthly premiums but carry higher deductibles and co-pays, according to Jim Brunnemer, the insurer's chief financial officer. Today, its members typically buy high deductible plans.

To be sure, there are some states where premiums will fall or come in lower than expected. The Obama administration pointed to a recent Department of Health and Human Services study of 11 states with publicly available premium data that showed rates are below Congressional Budget Office projections.

"When the marketplaces open on Oct. 1, plans will have to compete side by side, and consumers will be able to choose the one that best fits their budget and needs," said Joanne Peters, a department spokeswoman.

While premiums may go up in other states, Obamacare advocates say people will receive more comprehensive coverage. Also, the law limits the amount people have to pay out-of-pocket for deductibles and co-pays to $6,350 in 2014.

"A lot of people will get more for their money," said Sarah Lueck, senior policy analyst for the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. "Even people paying a higher rate will benefit. It will be a big change in most states."

#58 TheFlash

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 06:34 PM

I tell you what, if I lose my employer provided health care in a couple weeks(pending layoffs), I'll be very happy for the affordable care act.  Think beyond what you have today, and think about what you might need tomorrow.



#59 Spatial Ed

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 11:58 PM

 

 

 

If Obamacare fails, you all realize the only fall back is single payer.  Don't you?  There is zero way the American public will want to return to healthcare prior to Obamacare.

How about I show you my insurance bill from 2008 and then compare it to 2013?There is a 100 percent certainty that I would want to return to pre-ObamaCare.About a 8,000 dollar per year chance, with a much lower deductible. Hope and Change, from 13 k per year to over 20k for a family of three, with a huge deductible.Thanks, Obama.
You probably had one of those rip-off plans. You thought you were covered but actually weren't.
It's a real "fly by night" operation called "blue cross".
You may have heard of it.

 

 How much did it go up from 2003 to 2008? 

Were his kids under 26 covered?  Did they cover his pre-existing conditions?  So many variables.  Does he want to return to having his pre-existing conditions denied, his post-minor children not covered?  That the poor will continue to use the emergency room for basic medical care and raise his costs due to that?



#60 billy backstay

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 12:22 AM

 

 

If Obamacare fails, you all realize the only fall back is single payer.  Don't you?  There is zero way the American public will want to return to healthcare prior to Obamacare.

How about I show you my insurance bill from 2008 and then compare it to 2013?There is a 100 percent certainty that I would want to return to pre-ObamaCare.About a 8,000 dollar per year chance, with a much lower deductible. Hope and Change, from 13 k per year to over 20k for a family of three, with a huge deductible.Thanks, Obama.
You probably had one of those rip-off plans. You thought you were covered but actually weren't.
It's a real "fly by night" operation called "blue cross".
You may have heard of it.

 

Ten years ago, my company was paying 24k a year for BC/BS for family of 4 with no dental and no vision and deductibles were not cheap.  It was a tax write off for my company, which was destroyed in 08 by Wall street Banksters. It would cost me 30 grand a year now, for just wife and me, for what my present employer provides in low paying factory job.  So, if Obamacare fails, single payer is just fine by me.



#61 White Cracker

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 12:28 AM

 

 

 

If Obamacare fails, you all realize the only fall back is single payer.  Don't you?  There is zero way the American public will want to return to healthcare prior to Obamacare.

How about I show you my insurance bill from 2008 and then compare it to 2013?There is a 100 percent certainty that I would want to return to pre-ObamaCare.About a 8,000 dollar per year chance, with a much lower deductible. Hope and Change, from 13 k per year to over 20k for a family of three, with a huge deductible.Thanks, Obama.
You probably had one of those rip-off plans. You thought you were covered but actually weren't.
It's a real "fly by night" operation called "blue cross".
You may have heard of it.

 

 How much did it go up from 2003 to 2008? 

It is not apples to apples.

I had to quadruple the deductible and opened an HSA account just to keep the four year increase below 100%.

 

You lovin' Obamacare yet?



#62 White Cracker

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 12:32 AM

 

 

 

 

How about I show you my insurance bill from 2008 and then compare it to 2013?There is a 100 percent certainty that I would want to return to pre-ObamaCare.About a 8,000 dollar per year chance, with a much lower deductible. Hope and Change, from 13 k per year to over 20k for a family of three, with a huge deductible.Thanks, Obama.
You probably had one of those rip-off plans. You thought you were covered but actually weren't.
It's a real "fly by night" operation called "blue cross".
You may have heard of it.

 

 How much did it go up from 2003 to 2008? 

Were his kids under 26 covered?  Did they cover his pre-existing conditions?  So many variables.  Does he want to return to having his pre-existing conditions denied, his post-minor children not covered?  That the poor will continue to use the emergency room for basic medical care and raise his costs due to that?

Zero pre existing conditions.

Zero kids older than 12.

Zero surgical procedures or diagnoses other than a few ER visits for minor scrapes.

100 percent increases on premiums, accompanied by a letter that usually begins "....to comply with the Affordable Care Act, Blue Cross must inform you that......."



#63 Spatial Ed

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 12:35 AM

 

Zero pre existing conditions.

Zero kids older than 12.

Zero surgical procedures or diagnoses other than a few ER visits for minor scrapes.

100 percent increases on premiums, accompanied by a letter that usually begins "....to comply with the Affordable Care Act, Blue Cross must inform you that......."

And Obamacare hasn't been enacted.  Just wait a few weeks.  Get back to us.



#64 Mark K

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 06:55 AM




You probably had one of those rip-off plans. You thought you were covered but actually weren't.

It's a real "fly by night" operation called "blue cross".
You may have heard of it.


 
 How much did it go up from 2003 to 2008?


It is not apples to apples.
I had to quadruple the deductible and opened an HSA account just to keep the four year increase below 100%.
 
You lovin' Obamacare yet?


 
 That's correct, it's not apples to apples, it's five years to five years. Well, your third year of Kindergarten wasn't the waste of time everybody thought it was after all.  
 
 So what kind of healthcare insurance system do you want, Sparky?

#65 TheFlash

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 01:17 AM

The Cracker man thinks that a law that hasn't actually started yet caused his premiums to go up a couple years ago.

 

I bet he's one of the guys who thinks Katrina happened on Obama's watch



#66 billy backstay

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 01:22 AM

The Cracker man thinks that a law that hasn't actually started yet caused his premiums to go up a couple years ago.

 

I bet he's one of the guys who thinks Katrina happened on Obama's watch

 

A recent poll of southerners found that most of the registered republicans believe just that.  "Well done Brownie"



#67 White Cracker

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:02 AM

The Sage thinks that Obamacare is a piece of shit too:

 

Buffett: Scrap Obamacare and Start All Over

"I would much rather see another plan that really attacks costs. And I think that's what the American public wants to see. I mean, the American public is not behind this bill."

 

http://moneymorning....are-buffett.php

 

Buffett was Obama's Credibility Card. What happened?

Jeez,, good thing he still has 100% support from the Unions..... :P



#68 Spatial Ed

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:05 AM

The Sage thinks that Obamacare is a piece of shit too:
 

Buffett: Scrap Obamacare and Start All Over
"I would much rather see another plan that really attacks costs. And I think that's what the American public wants to see. I mean, the American public is not behind this bill."
 
http://moneymorning....are-buffett.php
 
Buffett was Obama's Credibility Card. What happened?
Jeez,, good thing he still has 100% support from the Unions..... :P

I agree. Shitcan it and go single payer.

#69 White Cracker

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:09 AM

The Sage thinks that Obamacare is a piece of shit too:
 

Buffett: Scrap Obamacare and Start All Over
"I would much rather see another plan that really attacks costs. And I think that's what the American public wants to see. I mean, the American public is not behind this bill."
 
http://moneymorning....are-buffett.php
 
Buffett was Obama's Credibility Card. What happened?
Jeez,, good thing he still has 100% support from the Unions..... :P

I agree. Shitcan it and go single payer.

Be ahead of the curve, my friend, Cuba has an excellent single payer system I hear. Worth a swim from anywhere.



#70 Olsonist

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:10 AM

No need to shitcan it. Just pass Single Payer.
Problem solved.

#71 Regatta Dog

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:38 AM

No need to shitcan it. Just pass Single Payer.
Problem solved.

 

I think that will be the ultimate result, and also think that was the goal. 

 

Just another program that discourages work and paying one's own way in life. 

 

Enough people suckling on the Gov't tit and that tit will dry up.  Then what?



#72 White Cracker

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 04:06 AM

Don't worry, we'll just print more money. All our problems will go away. Paul Krugman told me so.



#73 Mark K

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 04:11 AM

The Sage thinks that Obamacare is a piece of shit too:
 

Buffett: Scrap Obamacare and Start All Over
"I would much rather see another plan that really attacks costs. And I think that's what the American public wants to see. I mean, the American public is not behind this bill."
 
http://moneymorning....are-buffett.php
 
Buffett was Obama's Credibility Card. What happened?
Jeez,, good thing he still has 100% support from the Unions..... :P

I agree. Shitcan it and go single payer.

 

 Only way that would happen is if Obama threatened to resign if Congress passed that bill. 



#74 Olsonist

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 06:04 AM

Listen carefully to what Buffet actually says:



#75 B.J. Porter

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 05:53 PM

I am lovin' my massive cost increases in health insurance since ObamaCare was passed.

That sweet letter that came last week from Blue Cross warning of another unspecified increase and additional loss of features after November 1 sure has me angry at the Republicans.
Can't wait till my insurance hits 30k for a family of 3 (it's already gone from 13k to 20k, with a much higher deductible, since Obamacare was enacted).

 

Seeing as how very little of the ACA has taken effect yet...how do you figure Obamacare did it?



#76 B.J. Porter

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 05:56 PM

Pointing out the obvious fact that for the 40 times they voted to defund the ACA, not once did they vote to fix it or even offer their own alternative.

 

Remember when it was fashionable to call it "Obamacare" with pride instead of "ACA"?  Are you embarrassed now? 

 

Obama held a torch for the working class?  Obamacare ACA has driven millions into part time work.  All is good. 

 

I never liked calling it Obamacare, frankly I think Obama wasn't nearly enough involved in the end product to get credit or blame, beyond providing the mandate for it.



#77 Olsonist

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:15 PM

Beg to differ BJ, but Obama made health care reform a priority in his 2009  Address to the Joint Session of Congress. (The AJSC is given in lieu of the SOTU in the first year.) He properly deferred to Congress the details and the horse trading. But he spent his political capital, and theirs, getting it passed. Since no good deed goes unpunished, the Dems got thrashed in the 2010 midterms for all they accomplished in those two short years. 2012 was a referendum on ObamaCare. Yeah, this was Obama's initiative and he deserves the credit.

 

From the AJSC:
 
For that same reason, we must also address the crushing cost of health care.
 
This is a cost that now causes a bankruptcy in America every thirty seconds.  By the end of the year, it could cause 1.5 million Americans to lose their homes.  In the last eight years, premiums have grown four times faster than wages.  And in each of these years, one million more Americans have lost their health insurance.  It is one of the major reasons why small businesses close their doors and corporations ship jobs overseas.  And it’s one of the largest and fastest-growing parts of our budget. 
 
Given these facts, we can no longer afford to put health care reform on hold.
 
Already, we have done more to advance the cause of health care reform in the last thirty days than we have in the last decade.  When it was days old, this Congress passed a law to provide and protect health insurance for eleven million American children whose parents work full-time.  Our recovery plan will invest in electronic health records and new technology that will reduce errors, bring down costs, ensure privacy, and save lives.  It will launch a new effort to conquer a disease that has touched the life of nearly every American by seeking a cure for cancer in our time.  And it makes the largest investment ever in preventive care, because that is one of the best ways to keep our people healthy and our costs under control. 
 
This budget builds on these reforms.  It includes an historic commitment to comprehensive health care reform – a down-payment on the principle that we must have quality, affordable health care for every American.  It’s a commitment that’s paid for in part by efficiencies in our system that are long overdue.  And it’s a step we must take if we hope to bring down our deficit in the years to come. 
Now, there will be many different opinions and ideas about how to achieve reform, and that is why I’m bringing together businesses and workers, doctors and health care providers, Democrats and Republicans to begin work on this issue next week. 
 
I suffer no illusions that this will be an easy process.  It will be hard.  But I also know that nearly a century after Teddy Roosevelt first called for reform, the cost of our health care has weighed down our economy and the conscience of our nation long enough.  So let there be no doubt: health care reform cannot wait, it must not wait, and it will not wait another year.     


#78 Saorsa

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:21 PM

Beg to differ BJ, but Obama made health care reform a priority in his 2009  Address to the Joint Session of Congress. (The AJSC is given in lieu of the SOTU in the first year.) He properly deferred to Congress the details and the horse trading. But he spent his political capital, and theirs, getting it passed. Since no good deed goes unpunished, the Dems got thrashed in the 2010 midterms for all they accomplished in those two short years. 2012 was a referendum on ObamaCare. Yeah, this was Obama's initiative and he deserves the credit.

 

From the AJSC:
 
For that same reason, we must also address the crushing cost of health care.
 
This is a cost that now causes a bankruptcy in America every thirty seconds.  By the end of the year, it could cause 1.5 million Americans to lose their homes.  In the last eight years, premiums have grown four times faster than wages.  And in each of these years, one million more Americans have lost their health insurance.  It is one of the major reasons why small businesses close their doors and corporations ship jobs overseas.  And it’s one of the largest and fastest-growing parts of our budget. 
 
Given these facts, we can no longer afford to put health care reform on hold.
 
Already, we have done more to advance the cause of health care reform in the last thirty days than we have in the last decade.  When it was days old, this Congress passed a law to provide and protect health insurance for eleven million American children whose parents work full-time.  Our recovery plan will invest in electronic health records and new technology that will reduce errors, bring down costs, ensure privacy, and save lives.  It will launch a new effort to conquer a disease that has touched the life of nearly every American by seeking a cure for cancer in our time.  And it makes the largest investment ever in preventive care, because that is one of the best ways to keep our people healthy and our costs under control. 
 
This budget builds on these reforms.  It includes an historic commitment to comprehensive health care reform – a down-payment on the principle that we must have quality, affordable health care for every American.  It’s a commitment that’s paid for in part by efficiencies in our system that are long overdue.  And it’s a step we must take if we hope to bring down our deficit in the years to come. 
Now, there will be many different opinions and ideas about how to achieve reform, and that is why I’m bringing together businesses and workers, doctors and health care providers, Democrats and Republicans to begin work on this issue next week. 
 
I suffer no illusions that this will be an easy process.  It will be hard.  But I also know that nearly a century after Teddy Roosevelt first called for reform, the cost of our health care has weighed down our economy and the conscience of our nation long enough.  So let there be no doubt: health care reform cannot wait, it must not wait, and it will not wait another year.     

 

Yep, and he has been completely ineffective in reducing the crushing cost of healthcare.  It's still the same.



#79 Saorsa

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:24 PM

Listen carefully to what Buffet actually says:

 

His final sentence says it all.  "I'm not in favor of insuring more people until you address the cost aspect".  That's what makes ACA crap.

 

Meanwhile, my guess is that the companies he has a beneficial ownership in are looking for ways to use more part timers.



#80 White Cracker

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 01:34 AM

I am lovin' my massive cost increases in health insurance since ObamaCare was passed.

That sweet letter that came last week from Blue Cross warning of another unspecified increase and additional loss of features after November 1 sure has me angry at the Republicans.
Can't wait till my insurance hits 30k for a family of 3 (it's already gone from 13k to 20k, with a much higher deductible, since Obamacare was enacted).

 

Seeing as how very little of the ACA has taken effect yet...how do you figure Obamacare did it?

Well, BJ, it's taking effect January 1, 2014, and my Blue Cross is cancelled.

 

Happy now?



#81 Spatial Ed

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 12:30 PM

Somebody needs to call the racist a whaaaambulance.

#82 White Cracker

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 07:15 AM

Obamacare_stack_0.jpg?1381781240



#83 Sol No-Ebola Rosenberg

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:14 PM

Somebody needs to call the racist a whaaaambulance.

Dances with Puppets not sleeping well....



#84 Dog

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:24 PM

Obamacare_stack_0.jpg?1381781240

Racist.

#85 d'ranger

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:45 PM

Obamacare_stack_0.jpg?1381781240

Racist.

papeRacist   It's all white but really stacked






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