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interdeck vs kiwigrip


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#1 overdraft

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 02:24 AM

hi all!
redoing the deck on my old melges 24... wondering what to use for the non-skid areas (the search function is broken at the moment). has anyone used either (or preferably both!) of these products, interdeck and/or kiwigrip, that could give me any opinions on ease of application, appearance, durability etc?
thanks!

#2 SailMoore1

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 04:23 AM

I used interdeck down below on my boat. It has held up well and has provided reasonable nonskid. I want a little more aggressive non skid on deck. Sorry, can't tell you how well it would hold up with with more sun exposure. My boat neighbor applied Kiwigrip last year. So far so good on holding up with moderate use and has an aggressive grip without being abrasive. The only downside I have seen is he used white and it really shows any dirt. Cleans easily but if it is not cleaned weekly, it looks dirty. I will probably apply Kiwigrip but will use grey.

#3 bruno

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 05:42 AM

check the weights

#4 Overbored

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 06:09 AM

I have had gray interdeck and after a year it was very oxidized. it never was glossy and  would not use again. now I have Sterling with non skid added, looks great after 4 years. I like the kiwigrip on a friends boat but it shows the dirt way more then the Sterling  



#5 usa1136

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 11:49 AM

I have gray on the floor of my center console motorboat. When it is sunny it gets hot on bare feet. Agree white gets dirty, have that on the deck of the sailboat. I would suggest buying white and bringing it to Home Depot to get it colored, but lighter than the std gray. It is water based so hd can do this for you easily.

#6 Savage 17

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 12:31 PM

http://forums.sailin...howtopic=127893

#7 Southern Cross

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 12:45 PM

I have had gray interdeck and after a year it was very oxidized. it never was glossy and  would not use again. now I have Sterling with non skid added, looks great after 4 years. I like the kiwigrip on a friends boat but it shows the dirt way more then the Sterling  


I thought Sterling was/had practically gone out of business. Where can you get topsides paint? I need to do some touch ups. What did you use for the nonskid?

#8 CyberBOB

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 11:38 PM

I painted my non-skid the same time as a friend. I used Interdeck, he used KiwiGrip. Both went on easy. The KiwiGrip is a better product all around. It has more grip, lasts longer, is easier to touchup (I can't tell were he touched it up), and is easier to clean. It is no harder on bare feet or clothes. The KiwiGrip shows fewer imperfections in surface prep as well. The Interdeck doesn't really hide anything.

He mixed a quart of grey with a quart of white, and it is a really nice shade of light grey.

#9 overdraft

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 04:08 AM

thanks for all the good input everyone! consensus seems to be that kiwigrip is hard to keep clean... is that just because it attracts dirt better and therefore needs more frequent cleaning,or does it actually stain and/or discolour more easily than other solutions?

#10 Touch of Gray

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 05:55 PM

I have two years on a Kiwi Grip deck.  It does for some reason seem "dirty" when wet, but once simply mopped off and let dry it looks completely clean.  Odd as it threw me a bit initially.  Holds up well, application allows for aggressive to non-aggressive grip.  I like the latter for cockpit seats.  Standard grey.  While deck is hot on a sunny day, I can't say its any hotter than the cream color I had, and I would think white would be a bit blinding.  Fixes easily too and as noted, can't tell where fix occurred.  



#11 Murphness

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 03:25 PM

This: http://www.apsltd.co...achine-cut.aspx

 

We did Kiwi Grip 2 seasons ago and while it's ok for inshore stuff, it gets pretty slippery when the deck is wet. I think in terms of self applied hard surfaces it's probably the better product.

 

I've raced on a couple of boats with the foam I linked to above and nothing beats it. It may not last as long as a painted surface, but it's WAY safer and grippier when you need it to be... I think you can purchase it straight from the manufacturer too and may be cheaper.

 

Cheers,

 

Murphness



#12 pauloman

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 01:18 PM

they do sell epoxy paint with high tech synthetic grit already in it.  Common of boats is rubber grit, or ground walnut shell grit which comes in several sizes. One really needs to match the grit to the coating - fine grits vanish in thick coatings. Then too one size grit for decks of fishing boats and another for tender butts/feet in swim suits. Finally you get a different result if you mix in the grit with the coating vs broadcasting it on top. Often broadcasting is 'broadcast to excess' giving a 100% grit coverage and resulting in a very uniform even result - compared to a bit of grit here and a bit of grit there (which looks very DIY).

 

One really needs to experiment with different coatings, different grit sizes, different grits and different grit application methods if you are looking for the perfect non skid.



#13 asdf38

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 02:50 PM

thanks for all the good input everyone! consensus seems to be that kiwigrip is hard to keep clean... is that just because it attracts dirt better and therefore needs more frequent cleaning,or does it actually stain and/or discolour more easily than other solutions?

 

I did one section (cockpit floor/engine cover) with interdeck.  The dirt I tracked in the day I launched it is still there.

 

The problem as I see it is that the grit is so fine dirt particles get stuck in there and nothing can really reach them.  Brushes and sponges just don't get in there.

 

I'll be looking elsewhere if/when I do more extensive painting.  Whatever the previous owner used on non-skid, although crappy looking after years, it has larger more spaced out non-skid particles and doesn't trap the dirt as badly.



#14 White Wing

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 01:27 AM

Put Kiwi Grip on the cockpit floor of my Melges 20 - loved it.  You can choose the level of grip by choosing which paint roller to use --- finer nap, smoother finish/less grip....rough nap, very grippy.  I found it super effective and easy to maintain.  I'd go with KG again anytime.

 

WWing 



#15 Fantackulous

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:54 PM

I know someone who went down on a knee onto a deck with walnut shells.  Tore him up pretty good.  My vote?  UV stabilized epoxy paint with your additive of choice depending on use and location. 



#16 whinging pom

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 01:48 PM

Don't laugh.  I've used textured masonry paint (Sandtex) to great effect. Guaranteed for xx years on the outside of a house, so it ought to last for a while on the deck. 

 

Good range of colours, water based, cheap. What's not to like?



#17 J29Guy

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:39 PM

Kiwi Grip is the best choice and I am not seeing the dirt problems.  I had mine tinted at ACE and it turned out perfect color match to the AwlGrip Moon Dust.  Advice would be to buy a few liters extra and have it all tinted at the same time so when you need to do a touch up or want to re do the cock pit floor you have it and it is a perfect color match.  



#18 Triton629

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 12:02 AM

Cannot comment on either but my favorite is to use alwgrip or simmilar paint and awlgrips griptex addetive. they sell fine or corse i mix both together. Make a large salt/pepper shaker roll on paint. shake griptex particles evenly over fresh paint allow to cure for 15-20 blow off excess lightly with an air hose and roll another coat of paint on top. looks good easy to apply can be coars or fine and lasts very well.



#19 SoCalSlacker

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 01:49 AM

interdeck is not very grippy



#20 Medströms

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 06:50 AM

I used International Perfection light grey, I think the color was called “platinum”, on the deck on my previous sailing boat. Two coats and no additives to improve the grip. The result was super. By coincidence we were moored on the same island last weekend and the deck still looked like it did 5 years ago when I did the paint job. Dirt goes off very easy.



#21 back of the boat

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 03:35 PM

Just put Kiwi Grip on this year. It has held up great. It does get a little dirty but a good brush and some armstrong inc. will get it done. 



#22 overdraft

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 06:10 AM

i looked at a kiwigrip deck the other day and it was REALLY agressive... is it possible to simulate the sort of non skid we see molded in to typical glass boats? i think i read somewhere that a mohair roller gives a finer texture than the actual loopy-goopy roller... can anyone confirm this?

#23 Murphness

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 03:39 PM

i looked at a kiwigrip deck the other day and it was REALLY agressive... is it possible to simulate the sort of non skid we see molded in to typical glass boats? i think i read somewhere that a mohair roller gives a finer texture than the actual loopy-goopy roller... can anyone confirm this?

 

Yes, you can make it as aggressive or smooth as you like depending on roller/speed/tackiness. If you let it cure a bit, then roll the peaks will be higher. If you roll real fast as soon as you apply it will be a bit smoother. There are lots of other techniques, spread thickness, speed of roller, etc. It's really easy...



#24 cold water sailor

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 04:52 AM

i looked at a kiwigrip deck the other day and it was REALLY agressive... is it possible to simulate the sort of non skid we see molded in to typical glass boats? i think i read somewhere that a mohair roller gives a finer texture than the actual loopy-goopy roller... can anyone confirm this?

 

Yes, you can make it as aggressive or smooth as you like depending on roller/speed/tackiness. If you let it cure a bit, then roll the peaks will be higher. If you roll real fast as soon as you apply it will be a bit smoother. There are lots of other techniques, spread thickness, speed of roller, etc. It's really easy...

 I did  a kiwi grip deck about 5 years ago on an Ensign.  Still looks great. As far as  how  aggressive it is  its up to how  you put it on. I got some fibrglass bathroom panels and  did 3 or 4 test sections practicing how to roll it dowm'n.  Found out that by testing   notched  trowels of various size teeth I found the  perfect thickness of paint to lay down before rolling it out and made for very consistan tlook. I went  with a aggressive thicker layer for the bowman where he has to stand whenputting up the pole but less agressive in places where a person could be on hands and knees..  Also I  had local store add the  color   which I tested on the test panels before  making final choice



#25 OBW

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 01:24 PM

Have used Kiwi Grip in 3 boats now. Fishing boat works great, race boat very nice and offshore cruiser 10s of thousands of miles over past 7 years still looks perfect never even touched up. Will use it again and again



#26 Coz

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 12:22 AM

Really liking the Durabak I just put down. Their website looks sketchy but the stuff is the nicest grip I have ever experienced so far. Not sharp like Kiwigrip but still aggressive. It rolls on pretty consistently. Its easy 1 part. Not much involved in terms of prep. It stays kinda rubbery feeling. It seems to wash easily so far. It's not porous or abrasive and doesn't seem to trap dirt.

Attached Files



#27 Coz

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 12:25 AM

Can't speak to the longevity of Durabak yet but can tell you interdeck will be 100% ineffective as nonskid in high traffic areas after only a few seasons.



#28 NutCase27

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:42 PM

I have used Interdeck and prior to that on previous boat Brightsides with non skid additive (same thing as Interdeck) and also their two part (Interthane Plus at time now Perfection) with flattening agent and non skid additive.  Interdeck has same grip as the other two I used with the additive.  Interdeck Grey easy to ply and lasts reasonably well.  The non ski properies are not as good as I would like when on foredeck in wet conditions.  Have heard a lot of good about Kiwi Grip although it does take more time and material to apply and is therefore more expensive.  If cost and time not an issue tehn Kiwi Grip would be my choice.  As for cost .. Interdeck is cheap and Kiwi Grip is only about three times the cost for same area to cover so still reasonable.

 

Mike



#29 DRDNA

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 05:11 PM

Use Kiwigrip in our commercial dive boat- it's good for a quick n easy paint- you easily control how rough it is by application.  We power wash the decks, so no dirt problem. Interdeck I tried and was not impressed at all on my J24.  Best non skid I've made is gel coat with collodial silica added and applied with a textured roller, and also super good is awlgrip, or similar, applied the same way.  Hope this is semi-helpful.



#30 dacarls

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 05:40 PM

KIWIGRIP QUOTE: ... you can make it as aggressive or smooth as you like depending on roller/speed/tackiness. If you let it cure a bit, then roll the peaks will be higher. If you roll real fast as soon as you apply it will be a bit smoother. There are lots of other techniques, spread thickness, speed of roller, etc. It's really easy...

 

THIS FOLLOWING IS CALLED "A SCIENTIFIC EXPERIMENT " & involves collecting data to decide for your own boat.

1)  Roll out some small test panels by rolling KG in thick but narrow smooth strips,.

2). Wait 2 minutes before texturizing with the bumpy roller, then 4, then 6. then 8 min, etc.  

3). 3 hours later, pick the one you like best for aggressive foredeck (12 min?) or for lady parts/ bikini butts (3 min?).

KG Works great.



#31 memopad

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 08:53 PM

I have used Interdeck and prior to that on previous boat Brightsides with non skid additive (same thing as Interdeck) and also their two part (Interthane Plus at time now Perfection) with flattening agent and non skid additive.  Interdeck has same grip as the other two I used with the additive.  Interdeck Grey easy to ply and lasts reasonably well.  The non ski properies are not as good as I would like when on foredeck in wet conditions.  Have heard a lot of good about Kiwi Grip although it does take more time and material to apply and is therefore more expensive.  If cost and time not an issue tehn Kiwi Grip would be my choice.  As for cost .. Interdeck is cheap and Kiwi Grip is only about three times the cost for same area to cover so still reasonable.

 

Mike

 

One gallon was enough to do the deck of my Ranger 28. Total time for two people, including masking, and sanding the edges of glossy paint (perfection) and kiwigrip application was about 6 hours maybe? Can't see how anything else could be that much faster. Interdeck has a nice looking finish, but is not as grippy as kiwigrip. Only one season with it but the kiwi still looks great. I ran sandpaper over the cockpit seats to knock down the sharpness after the kiwigrip had dried. Makes for a much more comfortable surface. I actually lightly sanded the whole deck to take some of the aggressiveness away, goes quick and makes it less likely to eat your skin ;)



#32 KiwiGrip

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 12:01 AM

Hi All -

 

Sorry for the delayed response to this thread.  I've had trouble searching on S.A. forums for a while.  Seems to be working fine again...

 

Thanks to all who've covered for me, explaining various techniques for KiwiGrip application.  Allow me to add a bit of theory to the discussion so you can understand KiwiGrip's behavior.

 

KG is a waterbased acrylic that dries... instead of curing like an epoxy or polyester.  The drying conditions (ie, drying time) has a major impact on your texture.  Like laundry drying on your clothes line,  KiwiGrip dries quickly when temp is high, humidity is low, and a warm breeze is blowing.  Slow drying results from cool temps, high humidity, and still air.   When you roll out the KG, you'll immediately note tall sharp peaks and deep valleys.  As you watch, those peaks will slowly slump and round out on the top.  Material will sluff down the mountain sides and build the film thickness in the valleys.  Under fast dry conditions, there isn't much of this settling behavior an you'll wind up with a very aggressive texture.  Imagine now that you live in Seattle where temps are in the 40s (5C - 10C) and humidity is north of 75%.  In these conditions,  drying is very slow and the peaks have plenty of time to settle before firming up.  This will give  you a much more gentle texture.  Much easier to clean, but not as effective in the grip department.   So,  it's important to pay attention to your drying conditions if you are particular about your result.

 

OK,  enough theory.  What do you do if your conditions are not ideal?  To speed up drying, you can heat your shed (use electric heaters or exhaust combustion heaters outside!!!)  You can also put heaters inside your boat so that you're applying KG to a warm deck.  Finally, you can set up fans to increase airflow over your deck.   If you're still finding too much settling,  it's time to back-roll.  This is a technique where you allow the KG to settle for 10 - 20 minutes (longer if very slow dry) and then roll over the slumped peaks again with your wet-with-kiwigrip roller.  The roller will grab the peaks and lift 'em up sharp again.  But, because they've started to dry and thicken,  they'll remain sharp.   This is kind of a pain if you have large expansive decks that are not broken up into panels.

 

What if the KG is drying too quickly?  Slow down the drying by (a) choosing a different day or (B) working at night after the dew has been mopped off the deck or © working very early in the morning before the deck becomes warm or (d) add up to 10% water to the KG before applying.

 

If you STILL end up with KG that is too sharp,  you can achieve a very nice result by knocking back the peaks with a sanding block (I like 100 or 80 grit) under a flood of water.   You can do this anytime after the KG has dried for 24 hours of good drying conditions.  This will convert the sharp peaks to nice plateaus that remain grippy but not sharp.  If you do this within 7 days, you can do a J24 in about a hour.  If you wait a few months,  allow a few hours as the KG continues to harden and shifts from rubbery to hard and durable.

 

I hope all this helps!

 

Cheers,  Willy  (info at kiwigrip dot com)



#33 memopad

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:40 PM

Yep, I found sanding the tips off to go very quickly and was relatively painless. Not sure how much formulation revision you guys do, but if you're ever able to extend the drying time a bit I think you'd have an almost perfect (for me) product. I did my decks on a sunny day, but it was probably only about 60 degrees or so. Still found the kiwigrip getting tacky before I could roll out a small section. The pointers about removing masking tape as soon as you roll a section are spot on, I only had a couple of areas where I peeled paint when I pulled tape.

 

I picked up an application tip here on SA that I found very useful. To spread the kiwigrip out before rolling it, I used a textured trowel, the kind with teeth on the edges. IIRC I used 1/8in teeth, and this helped keep an even depth of kiwigrip, and was about the right amount for the texture I wanted.



#34 Sheethead

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 04:04 PM

This: http://www.apsltd.co...achine-cut.aspx

 

We did Kiwi Grip 2 seasons ago and while it's ok for inshore stuff, it gets pretty slippery when the deck is wet. I think in terms of self applied hard surfaces it's probably the better product.

 

I've raced on a couple of boats with the foam I linked to above and nothing beats it. It may not last as long as a painted surface, but it's WAY safer and grippier when you need it to be... I think you can purchase it straight from the manufacturer too and may be cheaper.

 

Cheers,

 

Murphness

I covered the cockpit deck in that Lewmar grip stuff, it's still looking new after 2 seasons. I'm going to look at this Hydroturf for covering the cockpit benches, the FN teak plywood has got to go!






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