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Moth: questions on Bladerider upgrades


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#1 17mika

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 03:51 PM

Hi everybody:

 

Starting with a standard Bladerider X8, I'm doing some small low-cost upgrades, not looking 4 speed, but for a better training platform (currently trying to get some consistency in the gybes, since 50% is not really a good success rate :D). I'm asking some feedback and advice on upgrades:

 

Mainsail blocks: I find current 3:1 system reeeeaaallly too tiring; adding a 30/40mm standard block on the boom is ok? Or should I consider something different?

 

Mainsail sheet: Currently I have 8mm sheet supplied with the BR. I feel maybe something a bit bigger could be easier on my hands; what do people use?

 

Mainsail cams spacers: With my standard KA BR sail i didn't have cams spacers supplied, and I feel a couple of battens really need them (mainsail luff pocket sometimes flaps upwind!); I asked a local windsurf shop, but couldn't find them. Where do people usually get them (I'm in northern Italy)? Any hint on something to use as a substitute?

 

Centerboard mechanism: I increased a bit the gearing by unwinding the bell crank axle a bit, and found it better for waves management downind. Next week, hopefully, I'll change the terrible plastic upper push rod connector with something more stiff

 

Wand: I made an adjustable wand with paddle and, after a couple of iterations, I'm quite happy with the result. At the moment i find it enough to get height adjustment for upwind/downind (I have now 24 cm excursion, from 98 to 122 cm).

Is in your opinion a Right height adjuster really needed?

Some mothies with mach2 here tell me RHA is like a prerequisite, but I feel wand adjustment works really ok; the thing I like is thats that upwind a long oblique wand, when moving, doesn't generates too much movement of the mainfoil flap; whereas downwind, when I'm faster, a shorter more vertical wand generates a lot more flap movement for the same height change. Is my idea correct?

 

Anything else I should consider doing, to improve overall boat ease of use?

 

Thanks a lot in advance for you feedback,

Michele



#2 couchsurfer

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 03:56 PM

.

 

...from what I've heard,,,all those mainsheet issues you describe relate to -not vanging enough(?)



#3 Major Tom

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 07:14 PM

Make sure your wand is stiff enough otherwise when you push the bow down during a gybe you get a big delay on the flap response.

#4 teknologika

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 09:29 PM

Mainsail blocks: Ok I have used 3:1 since I was 12 on a moth so I would find 4:1 simply too slow on the sheet control. If the main is heavy that is a sure sign you don't have enough vang. Pull it on as hard as you dare, then pull it again. Under vanging is a very common starter mistake.

 

Mainsheet: People are trending to 6mm ropes on the main. I personally have quite a big one. It really doesn't matter as long as you have the right blocks for the size rope you are using.

 

The cheap alternative to cam spacers is plastic chain. Buy a length at your hardware store in the garden section, then cut out every second link. Cheap and easy.

 

In regards to ride height and wand length adjustment. You need these if you are racing on the edge of control, They aren't really necessary when beginning I wrote an  article about it here that explains the difference between wand and dials.  http://www.teknologi...Magic-Wands.pdf



#5 Phil S

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 10:50 PM

I would have said exactly what Bruce said.

Except I did change the mainsheet to 4:1 becasue I got soft with old age.

You have to use small blocks otherwise the bridle has to be lower and you can not sheet to the centre. Tie the end to the bridle, through the boom block, bridle block and then the ratchet on the boom. Use what ever rope runs freely in the small blocks. I have the M2 supplied Ratchet and small block on the boom but a similar small Ronstan on the bridle which I have attacked with a drill to open out the space for the rope, and added a small soft rope becket for the mainsheet.Attached File  mainsheet.jpg   163.19K   16 downloads

The rope has to be small enough for your chosen blocks, soft enough to move easilly but tough enough to cope with continuous movement through the ratchet block. Mainsheet consumption is common moth habit so its surprising that your BR original still survives.

I have all the  foil control adjustments but use the wand height adjustment most often.



#6 17mika

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 07:43 AM

Thanks everybody, especially Phil and Bruce, for the detailed answers.

 

VANG: I guess probably I need to use it more; hopefully the boom will cooperate (a friend with a BR broke the boom last spring :D)

 

MAINSHEET AND BLOCKS: The sheet is still the one supplied with the boat, because the boat is new! :D I bought the boat last march from a guy who had never used it, not even assembled the wing bars. In the end I'll probably try 4:1 and see how it feels

 

CAM SPACERS: I'll try to find some plastic chain. smart idea :D

 

WAND: I think it should be stiff enough (carbon 8mm tube), but I'll pay attention on that!



#7 aus2479

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 09:09 AM

All good advice above.
8mm is probably as big as you would go for mainsheet, 6-8 probably about right. 4-1 is the go I reckon with the ratchet off the boom and then through a plain block off the bridle. Mine are all 40mm although some finish with the 30's. harken are the pick of blocks for this application.
Make sure vang is at least 24-1. Booms break, it's unfortunate but happens.
You need a ride height adjuster I reckon, some times you wouldn't want so much flap movement that shortening the wand length gives.

#8 constantijn

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 10:24 AM

BR standard boom is a piece of crap, it is way to flexible. when you go to 1: 24 vang (minimum) it will bend something like 20 mm.

on my old boat i managed to add a number of HM UD tapes on top and bottom of the boom to solve this.

Afaik the boom is still in 1 piece



#9 Phil S

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 10:31 AM

A unused Bladerider!!

Things to look out for:

* Make sure that the front wings are securely bolted in. The bottom tube operates in tesnion and has to be secure to the hull. And if ever you intend to tie the boat down by the wings, also you need to tie the compression struts together around the top of the stump. People have broken wings and sockets tieing BR to trailers. Drill a 3mm hole through the compression struts just outside the stump and bind them together with some 1mm spectra.

* The scrcews which hold the foils to the bottom of the CB and rudder are only tapped into the lamnate. If you over tighen them or remove and replace them too often they get loose and the foils fall off. If you can get some 6mm SS helicoil inserts, like the M2 uses try to install these and replace the bolts. There are a lot of BR foils on the bottom of sailing venues all over the world.

* The BR mast and Boom will probably not be stiff enough for 2013 vang loads, just be careful and be prepared to not go to windward like a M2.

* Most X8s were built by McConnachy and are fairly solid. Some have cracked under the front wings apparently because the bulkhead/hull joins failed. Keep an eye out for small longitudinal cracks and do an external repair before it splits badly. Seems to be a good remedy.

 

Your new wand. Made from 8mm tube. Do you have something to stop the tube rotating in the sleave? If not the paddle will track side to side and bit function properly.



#10 17mika

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 10:19 AM

A unused Bladerider!!

Things to look out for:

* Make sure that the front wings are securely bolted in. The bottom tube operates in tesnion and has to be secure to the hull. And if ever you intend to tie the boat down by the wings, also you need to tie the compression struts together around the top of the stump. People have broken wings and sockets tieing BR to trailers. Drill a 3mm hole through the compression struts just outside the stump and bind them together with some 1mm spectra.

* The scrcews which hold the foils to the bottom of the CB and rudder are only tapped into the lamnate. If you over tighen them or remove and replace them too often they get loose and the foils fall off. If you can get some 6mm SS helicoil inserts, like the M2 uses try to install these and replace the bolts. There are a lot of BR foils on the bottom of sailing venues all over the world.

* The BR mast and Boom will probably not be stiff enough for 2013 vang loads, just be careful and be prepared to not go to windward like a M2.

* Most X8s were built by McConnachy and are fairly solid. Some have cracked under the front wings apparently because the bulkhead/hull joins failed. Keep an eye out for small longitudinal cracks and do an external repair before it splits badly. Seems to be a good remedy.

 

Your new wand. Made from 8mm tube. Do you have something to stop the tube rotating in the sleave? If not the paddle will track side to side and bit function properly.

Thanks so much for the advice!

 

FRONT WING: I didn't get what do you mean by "compression struts". the sockets of the stump and lower front wing bars? i didn't get what it would be good to tie exactly, and the placing of the hole you talk about to drill.

 

MAIN FOIL SCREW. I had to get the mainfoil out a lot of times (i broke the 2mm pushrod - good to know why I dind't have to do more than 6 turns into the barrel nut :D -  I had the foils repainted, etc..) and it's getting a bit too easy to screw . Thanks for the alert!

 

HULL CRACKING NEXT TO FRONT WB; I know what you mean, since i've seen it on another boat. I'll keep an eye on that.

 

ADJUSTABLE WAND: Quite hard to explain how it's done.. i'll post some photos tonight. It should not move around or rotate at al, hopefully :)



#11 Phil S

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 11:47 AM

The front lower wing bars are in tesnion when sailing and the upper ones are in compression, due to the shoud tension. If you load the wings downward by sitting on them when the boat is not rigged or by tieing it to a trailer by the chainplates, then you are bending the wings down and the upper compresion struts provide no support. To make things safer you can drill a small hole in each compression strut near the mast step and tie the two together so they can  not pull out of the sockets. Same applies to M2 and many of us have done this simple mod.



#12 RobG

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 11:10 AM

Phil's pic is 3:1, below is 4:1. It's more common to sheet off the bridle so it's easier to recover the sheet if you drop it.

 

Attached Files



#13 17mika

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 10:30 PM

Thanks. I bought a 40mm block, which I'll be using like in your picture next time I go out.






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