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ETNZ vs OTUSA, races 8 & 9 (09/14)


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#1 the paradox of thrift

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 05:01 AM

Will Oracle take another race or are ETNZ heading for match point?

 

I've been waiting for this point for years and now it's upon us part of me doesn't want it to end!

 

What changes could Oracle possibly do to the boat to somehow make gains?

 

This was the noticeboard at ETNZ on day 4, from a mate who was there:

 

Attached File  1238226_10151909396336779_1447841364_n.jpg   93.53K   667 downloads

 

I'd suggest they would have posted the NZ Herald cover to take the piss out of 'Cool Cat' Dean Barker more than anything else.

 

 



#2 Candyfloss

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 05:27 AM

You mean I'm allowed to say that I think it will be all over on Sunday (SF time) without posters bandying words like "hubris", "tosser", and "fuck off noobie" at me?

I mean, and all credit to whoever was/is responsible, this is the first time I have been back here since the last AC and mate, it was brutal back then. Much better now. Anarchy doesn't work, does it.

So I'll chance my arm, raise it to a vertical position, and say "It will all be over on Sunday". Monday for me.

See you in Auckland.



#3 Marcog

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 10:20 AM

Oracle will win 9-7.
Since they want to keep the Cup the only solution for them is to crush into Nzl get dsq for that race. Then use the identical twin spare boat to beat Nzl as Nzl does not have an identical ready to race spare boat.

#4 Enzedel 92

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 11:15 AM

Its bad for OR,  Not many wind conditions left.  Maybe an ebb tide on the upwind to shorten the length???

 

Thursday's races revealed all.



#5 the paradox of thrift

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 11:22 AM

How many more will OR win?

 

Before today they looked every bit like they could string a couple together, but the last three races have been emphatic wins for TNZ.



#6 Liquid Assett NZ

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 11:25 AM

How many more will OR win?

 

Before today they looked every bit like they could string a couple together, but the last three races have been emphatic wins for TNZ.

 

They got a couple up their sleeve I think. Prob clear their penalty. Maybe become competitive at the final hour 



#7 christom

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 11:28 AM

You mean I'm allowed to say that I think it will be all over on Sunday (SF time) without posters bandying words like "hubris", "tosser", and "fuck off noobie" at me?
I mean, and all credit to whoever was/is responsible, this is the first time I have been back here since the last AC and mate, it was brutal back then. Much better now. Anarchy doesn't work, does it.
So I'll chance my arm, raise it to a vertical position, and say "It will all be over on Sunday". Monday for me.
See you in Auckland.


I agree that the forums are much better this time around. Last time I really do think there were some fully paid by the post Alinghi trolls who's only job was to muddy the waters and make the whole forum so unbearable that we would all go away.

This time I just hear whingey yanks upset because the Kiwis have stolen their exceptional ism. USA USa not.

#8 marlowe

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 11:39 AM

Its bad for OR,  Not many wind conditions left.  Maybe an ebb tide on the upwind to shorten the length???

 

Thursday's races revealed all.

 

Was race 4 (OR's win) an ebb tide? High winds, and seemed to me the most choppy water we've had.

Maybe that is the best chance OR has of nullifying ETNZ's upwind advantage.



#9 Abraxas3

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 11:40 AM

Oracle will win 9-7.
Since they want to keep the Cup the only solution for them is to crush into Nzl get dsq for that race. Then use the identical twin spare boat to beat Nzl as Nzl does not have an identical ready to race spare boat.

If OR does something like that there is nothing stopping the jury to DSQ Oracle and awarding points to ETNZ. I mean if the jury finds that adding a few millimeters here and a few kg there on a AC45 is gross misconduct, what would you say crushing another boat would be???

But hopefully you were joking... 



#10 Enzedel 92

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 01:54 PM

Its bad for OR,  Not many wind conditions left.  Maybe an ebb tide on the upwind to shorten the length???

 

Thursday's races revealed all.

 

Was race 4 (OR's win) an ebb tide? High winds, and seemed to me the most choppy water we've had.

Maybe that is the best chance OR has of nullifying ETNZ's upwind advantage.

 

 

If I was OR I would sail the race like ENTZ is not even there - basically a speed trial - dont even look at the other boat.  Minimize the tacks but mode the boat for speed NOT tacking!

 

This is their only chance!!!!



#11 NZL3481

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 02:13 PM

Good luck with that.



#12 Abraxas3

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 02:13 PM

 

Its bad for OR,  Not many wind conditions left.  Maybe an ebb tide on the upwind to shorten the length???

 

Thursday's races revealed all.

 

Was race 4 (OR's win) an ebb tide? High winds, and seemed to me the most choppy water we've had.

Maybe that is the best chance OR has of nullifying ETNZ's upwind advantage.

 

 

If I was OR I would sail the race like ENTZ is not even there - basically a speed trial - dont even look at the other boat.  Minimize the tacks but mode the boat for speed NOT tacking!

 

This is their only chance!!!!

But they would still have ETNZ coming over and give them shitty wind on the upwind leg, you surly can't ignore that without falling further behind....



#13 Enzedel 92

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 02:24 PM

 

 

Its bad for OR,  Not many wind conditions left.  Maybe an ebb tide on the upwind to shorten the length???

 

Thursday's races revealed all.

 

Was race 4 (OR's win) an ebb tide? High winds, and seemed to me the most choppy water we've had.

Maybe that is the best chance OR has of nullifying ETNZ's upwind advantage.

 

 

If I was OR I would sail the race like ENTZ is not even there - basically a speed trial - dont even look at the other boat.  Minimize the tacks but mode the boat for speed NOT tacking!

 

This is their only chance!!!!

But they would still have ETNZ coming over and give them shitty wind on the upwind leg, you surly can't ignore that without falling further behind....

 

Agreed.  Its last ditch effort at this point.

 

Win the start, wind the reach, wind the downwind leg, and hit the boundaries, no tacking until boundaries are hit.



#14 Paul Romain Tober

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 07:33 PM

You mean I'm allowed to say that I think it will be all over on Sunday (SF time) without posters bandying words like "hubris", "tosser", and "fuck off noobie" at me?

I mean, and all credit to whoever was/is responsible, this is the first time I have been back here since the last AC and mate, it was brutal back then. Much better now. Anarchy doesn't work, does it.

So I'll chance my arm, raise it to a vertical position, and say "It will all be over on Sunday". Monday for me.

See you in Auckland.

 

JHC, what a tosser. What unbelievable hubris.

 

Have you posted a pic of your girlfriend's/wife's tits?

 

Fuck off noobie.

 

Romain

 

 

 

ps:

 

I can't imagine how this could last past Sunday unless ETNZ breaks.

 

I feel genuinely sorry for Larry's minions - this has to be wildly embarassing for them being beaten consistently by a piece of agricultural equipment.

 

However, it ain't over 'til it's over.

 

R



#15 jhc

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 07:43 PM

You mean I'm allowed to say that I think it will be all over on Sunday (SF time) without posters bandying words like "hubris", "tosser", and "fuck off noobie" at me?

I mean, and all credit to whoever was/is responsible, this is the first time I have been back here since the last AC and mate, it was brutal back then. Much better now. Anarchy doesn't work, does it.

So I'll chance my arm, raise it to a vertical position, and say "It will all be over on Sunday". Monday for me.

See you in Auckland.

 

JHC, what a tosser. What unbelievable hubris.

 

Have you posted a pic of your girlfriend's/wife's tits?

 

Fuck off noobie.

 

Romain

 

 

 

ps:

 

I can't imagine how this could last past Sunday unless ETNZ breaks.

 

I feel genuinely sorry for Larry's minions - this has to be wildly embarassing for them being beaten consistently by a piece of agricultural equipment.

 

However, it ain't over 'til it's over.

 

R

WTF?

 

Romain, do you really want me to post a picture of your spouse's breast(s)?



#16 jhc

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 07:51 PM

Ha, ah, er, says something when the user count triples after two posts mentioning bosom!



#17 jaysper

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 08:12 PM

Its bad for OR,  Not many wind conditions left.  Maybe an ebb tide on the upwind to shorten the length???

 

Thursday's races revealed all.

 

Anything that makes the water rougher or the wind lighter will only benefit ETNZ.

 

Wind lighter -> tacks cost more cos boat moving at a (relatively) glacial pace and OR will have more trouble staying on foils downwind

Water rougher -> Fine bows will bury in more upwind.

 

Other than 0 knots of breeze I can't think of a single condition that they will be able to match ETNZ



#18 Abraxas3

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 08:14 PM

Any locals with a good prediction of the weather forecast for the races on Saturday and Sunday?

 

Would be interesting to see races in both the light and heavy end of the possible range. Who knows, we might never see these boats sail again after Sunday!



#19 jaysper

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 08:15 PM

 

 

 

Its bad for OR,  Not many wind conditions left.  Maybe an ebb tide on the upwind to shorten the length???

 

Thursday's races revealed all.

 

Was race 4 (OR's win) an ebb tide? High winds, and seemed to me the most choppy water we've had.

Maybe that is the best chance OR has of nullifying ETNZ's upwind advantage.

 

 

If I was OR I would sail the race like ENTZ is not even there - basically a speed trial - dont even look at the other boat.  Minimize the tacks but mode the boat for speed NOT tacking!

 

This is their only chance!!!!

But they would still have ETNZ coming over and give them shitty wind on the upwind leg, you surly can't ignore that without falling further behind....

 

Agreed.  Its last ditch effort at this point.

 

Win the start, wind the reach, wind the downwind leg, and hit the boundaries, no tacking until boundaries are hit.

 

Trouble is that there are enough tacks even if they pinball off the boundaries for OR to lose.

Take race 4 out of the equation, it was due to gear failure. OR cannot match ETNZ under any circumstances



#20 DA-WOODY

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    COUGARS COUGARS & More COUGARS

Posted 13 September 2013 - 09:13 PM

You mean I'm allowed to say that I think it will be all over on Sunday (SF time) without posters bandying words like "hubris", "tosser", and "fuck off noobie" at me?

I mean, and all credit to whoever was/is responsible, this is the first time I have been back here since the last AC and mate, it was brutal back then. Much better now. Anarchy doesn't work, does it.

So I'll chance my arm, raise it to a vertical position, and say "It will all be over on Sunday". Monday for me.

See you in Auckland.

 

"hubris", "tosser", and "fuck off noobie"  :) 



#21 C Dub

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 09:25 PM

Oracle better put every mod they have on the boat today, or tomorrow is going to be 2 more losses.

#22 jaysper

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 09:31 PM

Oracle better put every mod they have on the boat today, or tomorrow is going to be 2 more losses.

 

I can't see any mods closing the game and frankly they might accidentally make things worse.

They won't have time to test the changes on the water or in the computer, so it is all pretty hit and miss.,

 

Whats more, there are a bunch fundamental differences contributing to the differences upwind that OR have no way of replicating.



#23 Indio

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 09:33 PM

OR have a new Measurement Certificate...but so does ETNZ.



#24 sfnewfan

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 09:36 PM

Take race 4 out of the equation, it was due to gear failure. OR cannot match ETNZ under any circumstances

 

Sorry if I missed it elsewhere -- was this ever confirmed? 



#25 uflux

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 12:55 AM

OR have a new Measurement Certificate...but so does ETNZ.

 

Would be so funny if OR came out with pie warmers....But lets be honest what can they change?? Don't have time or weight quota to make hull changes....No time to build anymore foils or rudders...No time to change the foil boxes...They can change the wing rake (although they did that the other day before running home to momma). So what is left...A new jib perhaps (desperation with no testing)....Nothing is going to stop the bows digging in and interestingly in the post race on board interview with Spithill, when asked what design changes could be made...Spithill suggested that the designs were basically locked in...After months of 2 boat testing we have seen the best OR can throw at us....They have been left wanting...



#26 BUltee

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 01:23 AM


Take race 4 out of the equation, it was due to gear failure. OR cannot match ETNZ under any circumstances

 
Sorry if I missed it elsewhere -- was this ever confirmed? 
On the radio Dalts said it wasn't a mechanical problem but how they use the hydraulics in that wind mode that was the issue. All fixed now though

#27 Redsled

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 02:59 AM

OR have a new Measurement Certificate...but so does ETNZ.

 

Oooh, can't wait to try to pick out the differences.



#28 Enzedel 92

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 03:03 AM

So the question begs - why did OR build two boats with almost the same hulls????

 

The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls - they are dead nuts the same.



#29 uflux

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 04:22 AM

Okay locals..Probably most important question is what is the wind/tide doing tomorrow...I hear we will have ebb with a bit of breeze....local observations much appreciated..



#30 snaerk

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 04:47 AM

So the question begs - why did OR build two boats with almost the same hulls????

 

The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls - they are dead nuts the same.

 

I bet TNZ wish thay had a spare platform with hullz the saem az there race bote

 

My understanding iz OR bote 2 haz the daggerbord caess in a diff plaice fore & aft.

 

(Beams attach in diff pozishuns also, so I gess the layup iz diff)

 

Given thay rebilt bote 1 at saem tym az bilding bote 2, not shore thay woud want to

 

Az for yore poynt <<The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls>>

 

There iz a rumor that they are grafting new, fuller bowz onto there bote 2 az we speek.


I dont no that thay have anything left in the wate budjet, tho . . . myt hav to trim sumthing off elsewheer.

 

IF (big if) troo . . . .



#31 zillafreak

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 04:49 AM

OR has lost the design battle. Game over.



#32 zillafreak

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 04:53 AM

So the question begs - why did OR build two boats with almost the same hulls????

 

The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls - they are dead nuts the same.

Major fuckup imo. b2 should have added volume. Morelli talks about the hundreds of hull shapes they modeled and they came back to the same basic shape, the current TNZ form. It is the best shape/volume possible. Not pencil hulls with no volume. Somebody fucked up at OR.



#33 NZL4EVER

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 04:55 AM

Attached File  130913NZHREtoon copy.gif   79.12K   92 downloads



#34 scarecow

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 08:33 AM

http://forecast.weat....45086669921875

 

Saturday: WSW wind 16 to 21 kt. Patchy fog before 11am. 

Saturday Night: WSW wind 17 to 21 kt. Patchy fog after 11pm. 

 

Tide going out until 2pm



#35 southseasbill

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 08:38 AM

So windy with an ebb tide.



#36 jaysper

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 08:40 AM

So the question begs - why did OR build two boats with almost the same hulls????

 

The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls - they are dead nuts the same.

Major fuckup imo. b2 should have added volume. Morelli talks about the hundreds of hull shapes they modeled and they came back to the same basic shape, the current TNZ form. It is the best shape/volume possible. Not pencil hulls with no volume. Somebody fucked up at OR.

 

Its all very well to see that in hindsight, but they had a LOT of people smarter and more knowledgeable that us working on it.

And its not like their boat is slow like Artemis' boat is it? Its off the pace, but it aint a piece of crap.

It would certainly kick the shit out of ETNZ's boat 1, which is one reason to pray out boat stays in one piece



#37 jaysper

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 08:42 AM

So windy with an ebb tide.

 

I wonder if there is a risk that OR might push to hard and bury the nose in for a repeat of the Orpocalypse?

I hope they are smart enough to throw the race if it gets to that point.

They got lucky with no injuries the first time, there is no guarantees they would be as lucky again.



#38 Indio

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 08:50 AM

ABs doing the job on the 'Boks



#39 Indio

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 09:39 AM

First leg's in: AB's thrash the Jappies again, and the Rugby Championship sealed for 2013.

 

Second leg in 11 hours...



#40 Candyfloss

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 10:00 AM

And counting...



#41 Terrafirma

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 10:23 AM

No more races for Oracle they are officially GONE.! The Kiwis are winning from behind, what more do you want..? Grant Dalton is already planning the next design and has written 3 variations of his victory speech....Oracle have never done well at the LVC or the AC, this time is no exception. I doubt Larry will do another one, shit he hired the so-called best guys in the world and they are getting smashed. I can't see anybody beating the Kiwis for years and years and I can't see more than 4 teams next time around. Sadly for New Zealand the next AC will be a battle, not sure hat they can do with it to make it a success.?



#42 snaerk

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 10:25 AM

I am conserned that, if tomorrow bringz a new set of condishuns the botes hav not lyned up in,

there iz a chants that OR coud be the faster bote. Not big, but not tiny.

 

And any mods thay ar making at this late staidje are (STM) mor lykly to diminish than to increess

any sutsh chants, becoz all the lo hanging froot will alreddy have been well and trolly plundered.

 

 

Becoz peepel lyk LE are notorius for demanding that "Sumthing be dun", thay seem to me lykly to

fall into the trap of generalz alwayz fyting the last battell. Last mode chayndje woz a caess in poynt.



#43 imnotasailer

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 10:28 AM

First leg's in: AB's thrash the Jappies again, and the Rugby Championship sealed for 2013.

 

Second leg in 11 hours...

what was the score?



#44 SloopJohnB

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 10:31 AM

29 - 15 FT

17 - 10 HT



#45 JJD

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 11:16 AM

So the question begs - why did OR build two boats with almost the same hulls????
 
The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls - they are dead nuts the same.

 
I bet TNZ wish thay had a spare platform with hullz the saem az there race bote
 
My understanding iz OR bote 2 haz the daggerbord caess in a diff plaice fore & aft.
 
(Beams attach in diff pozishuns also, so I gess the layup iz diff)
 
Given thay rebilt bote 1 at saem tym az bilding bote 2, not shore thay woud want to
 
Az for yore poynt <<The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls>>
 
There iz a rumor that they are grafting new, fuller bowz onto there bote 2 az we speek.

I dont no that thay have anything left in the wate budjet, tho . . . myt hav to trim sumthing off elsewheer.
 
IF (big if) troo . . . .

I honestly cant see that happening. That would be as desperate a change as ...................hhhmmmmmm maybe it would be the most desperate change in AC history? Fisher would know....

#46 pjfranks

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 11:24 AM

So the question begs - why did OR build two boats with almost the same hulls????

 

The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls - they are dead nuts the same.

that'll be why their so called "2 boat testing" was a waste of time. they should have been testing dissimilar designs if they wanted to drive improvements. i guess that's why they were always trying to line up with lr and tnz? they'll be totally bbq'd on sunday. :)



#47 Marcog

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 11:34 AM

very easy! starboard/port incident at the start or during the upwind leg....Oracle get a dsq for that race. Then they start the remaining races with new boats. It will be very difficult to prove that it was a volontary collision, so no chance to get a dsq for the entire series.

 

I hope that Larry's crew will be sportmen and avoid this type of strategy.

 

We have seen this happening in F1 it can happen in AC expecially as Oracle owner has already proven his unsportmanship attitude....

 

Oracle will win 9-7.
Since they want to keep the Cup the only solution for them is to crush into Nzl get dsq for that race. Then use the identical twin spare boat to beat Nzl as Nzl does not have an identical ready to race spare boat.

If OR does something like that there is nothing stopping the jury to DSQ Oracle and awarding points to ETNZ. I mean if the jury finds that adding a few millimeters here and a few kg there on a AC45 is gross misconduct, what would you say crushing another boat would be???

But hopefully you were joking... 



#48 Boomslangnz

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 11:46 AM

They are not going to purposely ram their boat into ETNZ purely because they aren't fast enough. Morally it is so wrong and anything could happen including possibly killing a person.

 

They are sailors on a yacht, they aren't murderous villans!



#49 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 12:01 PM

Just laughed my ass off.

 



#50 jhc

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 12:04 PM

Blown out today?

 

From the NWS:

SW WINDS 5 TO 15 KT...INCREASING TO 15 TO 25 KT BY LATE MORNING.


#51 NZL3481

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 12:19 PM

Just laughed my ass off.

 

Sums the commentary up completely!



#52 Monster Mash

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 12:23 PM

 

So the question begs - why did OR build two boats with almost the same hulls????
 
The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls - they are dead nuts the same.

 
I bet TNZ wish thay had a spare platform with hullz the saem az there race bote
 
My understanding iz OR bote 2 haz the daggerbord caess in a diff plaice fore & aft.
 
(Beams attach in diff pozishuns also, so I gess the layup iz diff)
 
Given thay rebilt bote 1 at saem tym az bilding bote 2, not shore thay woud want to
 
Az for yore poynt <<The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls>>
 
There iz a rumor that they are grafting new, fuller bowz onto there bote 2 az we speek.

I dont no that thay have anything left in the wate budjet, tho . . . myt hav to trim sumthing off elsewheer.
 
IF (big if) troo . . . .

I honestly cant see that happening. That would be as desperate a change as ...................hhhmmmmmm maybe it would be the most desperate change in AC history? Fisher would know....

 

I think it was NCS who said 10 new boatbuilders came to Oracle not to long ago. He seems like a pretty reliable source.



#53 marlowe

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 12:54 PM

Just laughed my ass off.

 

Sums the commentary up completely!

 

Kinda miss Tweedle-tucker-dee and Tweedle-andy-dum in tandem from the early days of the LV round robins farce.

 

"Great stuff" :)



#54 haggers

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 01:04 PM

We might see a change today. The downwind will be longer and the upwind shorter with the Ebb.

14 Sa  0349  0653 3.1F  1011(Slack)  1224 2.1E  1552(Slack)  1841 2.4F  2133(Slack)

If Oracle have the lead at the bottom they won't need to short tack up the cone, but could extend after the Leeward gate (Towards City front) for better Ebb and sail up the middle of the course. The first 30% of leg three has been an issue. The Ebb should help them out a little.

 

Wait and see.



#55 Abraxas3

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 01:09 PM

very easy! starboard/port incident at the start or during the upwind leg....Oracle get a dsq for that race. Then they start the remaining races with new boats. It will be very difficult to prove that it was a volontary collision, so no chance to get a dsq for the entire series.

I hope that Larry's crew will be sportmen and avoid this type of strategy.

We have seen this happening in F1 it can happen in AC expecially as Oracle owner has already proven his unsportmanship attitude....


Oracle will win 9-7.
Since they want to keep the Cup the only solution for them is to crush into Nzl get dsq for that race. Then use the identical twin spare boat to beat Nzl as Nzl does not have an identical ready to race spare boat.

If OR does something like that there is nothing stopping the jury to DSQ Oracle and awarding points to ETNZ. I mean if the jury finds that adding a few millimeters here and a few kg there on a AC45 is gross misconduct, what would you say crushing another boat would be???
But hopefully you were joking...

I don't think this is ever going to happen, but if a big collision did happen, remember that rudderangle, 10+ onboard tv cameras, soundrecording etc would document it all. Nobody should expect even OR to fall that low.

#56 Flatbag

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 01:09 PM

Okay locals..Probably most important question is what is the wind/tide doing tomorrow...I hear we will have ebb with a bit of breeze....local observations much appreciated..

 Not the wind  Biggest question now is how much longer Larry will let Jimmy Spit spin the wheels. Two more losses, possibly even only one more, and he's off.



#57 bwana

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 01:14 PM

We might see a change today. The downwind will be longer and the upwind shorter with the Ebb.

14 Sa  0349  0653 3.1F  1011(Slack)  1224 2.1E  1552(Slack)  1841 2.4F  2133(Slack)

If Oracle have the lead at the bottom they won't need to short tack up the cone, but could extend after the Leeward gate (Towards City front) for better Ebb and sail up the middle of the course. The first 30% of leg three has been an issue. The Ebb should help them out a little.

 

Wait and see.

haggers, are you back in sf?



#58 haggers

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 01:22 PM

We might see a change today. The downwind will be longer and the upwind shorter with the Ebb.

14 Sa  0349  0653 3.1F  1011(Slack)  1224 2.1E  1552(Slack)  1841 2.4F  2133(Slack)

If Oracle have the lead at the bottom they won't need to short tack up the cone, but could extend after the Leeward gate (Towards City front) for better Ebb and sail up the middle of the course. The first 30% of leg three has been an issue. The Ebb should help them out a little.

 

Wait and see.

haggers, are you back in sf?

Copy - Since Feb -



#59 scarecow

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 02:00 PM

Predicting 28 knot gusts now. Might re-set the wake-up call.



#60 ~Stingray~

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 02:02 PM

GD figures if OR changes bows they'd have to shave 15-18kg from elsewhere.

One way might be to go with the shorter (and presumably lighter) sprit that we saw on one occasion; since it can't fly a Zero they could also remove a winch. If we see that obvious change then it could be the early tipoff.

But I'm pretty skeptical they will have done surgery that big in just 36 hours; and skeptical they have other bows even if they wanted to.

#61 ~HHN92~

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 02:14 PM

I don't think its the bows, the speed difference is elsewhere, maybe the LET and the foil package, somewhat the rocker in the hulls.

 

Whacking the bows off for another set is not going to make that big a change.

 

Remember the new rudder in VLC in '07? Better in the computer but not on the water with no time to test and adjust.

 

Has anybody been able to make a direct comparison of the OR foils to ETNZ's? I think you would find more there than in the bows.



#62 ~Stingray~

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 02:16 PM

Agreed, foil changes are far more likely.

Some nice-looking stats here at first glance:

http://www.cupinfo.c...stats/index.php

#63 Enzedel 92

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 02:18 PM

They should have been modding boat 1 after race 1

#64 Abraxas3

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 02:32 PM

^ They can't change boat without unrepairable damage. So a change just to get another boat wouldn't be allowed.



#65 WetHog

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 02:33 PM

This time I just hear whingey yanks upset because the Kiwis have stolen their exceptional ism. USA USa not.


Name one, if you can.

WetHog

#66 DayTripper

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 02:46 PM

So the question begs - why did OR build two boats with almost the same hulls????

 

The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls - they are dead nuts the same.

 

I bet TNZ wish thay had a spare platform with hullz the saem az there race bote

 

My understanding iz OR bote 2 haz the daggerbord caess in a diff plaice fore & aft.

 

(Beams attach in diff pozishuns also, so I gess the layup iz diff)

 

Given thay rebilt bote 1 at saem tym az bilding bote 2, not shore thay woud want to

 

Az for yore poynt <<The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls>>

 

There iz a rumor that they are grafting new, fuller bowz onto there bote 2 az we speek.


I dont no that thay have anything left in the wate budjet, tho . . . myt hav to trim sumthing off elsewheer.

 

IF (big if) troo . . . .

Akordeeng to Dalton in his intervewe, the plan is tu graughed sexions of the recced Aotearoa intu boat 1, if thear is a catastroffic insidint. Tu dais are bujitid for this. Seams this wood be tu tayk accownt of the different foyle and rudder locayshins.



#67 nz65

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 02:55 PM

maybe Oracle needs some of these

 

pies-600.jpg



#68 WhiteLightnin'

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 03:13 PM

You mean I'm allowed to say that I think it will be all over on Sunday (SF time) without posters bandying words like "hubris", "tosser", and "fuck off noobie" at me?
I mean, and all credit to whoever was/is responsible, this is the first time I have been back here since the last AC and mate, it was brutal back then. Much better now. Anarchy doesn't work, does it.
So I'll chance my arm, raise it to a vertical position, and say "It will all be over on Sunday". Monday for me.
See you in Auckland.


I agree that the forums are much better this time around. Last time I really do think there were some fully paid by the post Alinghi trolls who's only job was to muddy the waters and make the whole forum so unbearable that we would all go away.

This time I just hear whingey yanks upset because the Kiwis have stolen their exceptional ism. USA USa not.

 

I have not been very active or vocal in the Forums this cycle for similar reasons. Too many "paid" TNZ supporters/abusers spewing BS about how "Larry screwed this up" "Coutts is a *%$#@ (insert expletive here)" USA sucks because of this or that etc etc.

 

Congrats to TNZ for or well run, awesome sailed, AC campaign. Looking forward to seeing what the NZL'ders can do to keep it interesting.

 

WL

 

PS- Actually Oracle has been sandbaggin for the last week and now that they have lulled TNZ into a false sense of security are going to take their foot off the brake and blow the competion off the water! :P



#69 ~HHN92~

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 03:28 PM

 

You mean I'm allowed to say that I think it will be all over on Sunday (SF time) without posters bandying words like "hubris", "tosser", and "fuck off noobie" at me?
I mean, and all credit to whoever was/is responsible, this is the first time I have been back here since the last AC and mate, it was brutal back then. Much better now. Anarchy doesn't work, does it.
So I'll chance my arm, raise it to a vertical position, and say "It will all be over on Sunday". Monday for me.
See you in Auckland.


I agree that the forums are much better this time around. Last time I really do think there were some fully paid by the post Alinghi trolls who's only job was to muddy the waters and make the whole forum so unbearable that we would all go away.

This time I just hear whingey yanks upset because the Kiwis have stolen their exceptional ism. USA USa not.

 

I have not been very active or vocal in the Forums this cycle for similar reasons. Too many "paid" TNZ supporters/abusers spewing BS about how "Larry screwed this up" "Coutts is a *%$#@ (insert expletive here)" USA sucks because of this or that etc etc.

 

Congrats to TNZ for or well run, awesome sailed, AC campaign. Looking forward to seeing what the NZL'ders can do to keep it interesting.

 

WL

 

PS- Actually Oracle has been sandbaggin for the last week and now that they have lulled TNZ into a false sense of security are going to take their foot off the brake and blow the competion off the water! :P

 

 

Then they have me fooled too!  :blink:

 

Maybe they just borrowed a restrictor plate from NASCAR and now they will remove it. Especially since DB & GA have been rubbin' and racin'. (in their own words) They get on the upwind leg and have been rubbin' OR out of the way.



#70 Savoyard

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 03:48 PM

Agreed, foil changes are far more likely.

Some nice-looking stats here at first glance:

http://www.cupinfo.c...stats/index.php

 Not thinking of further improvements to rudder elevators then Stingers?



#71 ~Stingray~

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 03:55 PM



Agreed, foil changes are far more likely.

Some nice-looking stats here at first glance:

http://www.cupinfo.c...stats/index.php

 Not thinking of further improvements to rudder elevators then Stingers?
They sure as hell won't be using the big, slow, over-sized safety-sized ones ;)

I doubt that ETNZ is either, which would be the most logical explanation for why they really dragged that issue through the mud for 6+ weeks.

#72 Alinghi4ever

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 04:10 PM

Ainslie is staying onboard OTUSA for Races 8 & 9.



#73 generative.design

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 04:21 PM

Uh oh.. ebb tide equals high potential for breakage. OR better not do anything funny to their hulls before going out today!



#74 ~Stingray~

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 05:00 PM

http://instagram.com/p/eP1KAzAcnW/

 

c667c4a21d5911e3852a22000a9e0709_7.jpg

 

jspithill

36 minutes ago

Best part of the day #wolfpack #redenergy



#75 generative.design

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 05:04 PM

Cute kids!

 

Strong winds with that ebb tide too..

https://twitter.com/...912195888689154



#76 Savoyard

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 05:59 PM

 



Agreed, foil changes are far more likely.

Some nice-looking stats here at first glance:

http://www.cupinfo.c...stats/index.php

 Not thinking of further improvements to rudder elevators then Stingers?
They sure as hell won't be using the big, slow, over-sized safety-sized ones ;)

I doubt that ETNZ is either, which would be the most logical explanation for why they really dragged that issue through the mud for 6+ weeks.

Odd how differently we remember things. I thought you were critical of ETNZ for not agreeing with IM that larger elevators be mandated. Now you don't like them either it seems.  As for dragging the issue through the mud, I certainly have recollections of you doing it endlessly and repetitively, I thought ETNZ just said NO and referred IM's attempted mandate to the IJ. Anyway, I am glad that no one's feet got hurt by flying bullets on either team.



#77 ~Stingray~

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 06:18 PM

Neither team wanted the damn things. But it was a sensible Safety measure and for that reason I supported it.

Unfortunately, most all of the rabid Kiwis here and in NZ media claimed that the issue was symbolic of a lopsided deck, IM was corrupt, blah blah blah blah bah. Ruddergate was Ridiculous, as was fighting it tooth and nail.

#78 street_Gang

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 06:36 PM

So whilst we are waiting for racing to begin, a quick Trivia question;

 

Which one Design boat have Dean Barker, Jimmy Spithill, and Ben Ainslie all raced in (helming), but never raced against each other, and also never won in ? 



#79 Monster Mash

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 06:37 PM

Does OR have fuller volumn fwd hulls today?

Bueler?



#80 street_Gang

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 06:40 PM

So whilst we are waiting for racing to begin, a quick Trivia question;

 

Which one Design boat have Dean Barker, Jimmy Spithill, and Ben Ainslie all raced in (helming), but never raced against each other, and also never won in ? 

 

Correction : Ben won once



#81 Estar

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 06:40 PM

youtube link for today please?



#82 street_Gang

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 06:43 PM

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=M11shiFtGO0



#83 Nodrog

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 06:54 PM

So whilst we are waiting for racing to begin, a quick Trivia question;
 
Which one Design boat have Dean Barker, Jimmy Spithill, and Ben Ainslie all raced in (helming), but never raced against each other, and also never won in ? 


Star?

#84 Pitbull

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 06:57 PM

Justa minor grumble, but what happened to the days when sponsors would not interrupt the play...I mean the race is only ~20min,long and to go to commercial shortly after they round the leeward mark is maddening...yes i know I should be grateful we have the coverage we do...bit still.....run commercials all during the break or something... i dunno........just my .02$ 



#85 Cavandish

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 06:57 PM

It'll be on NBCSN, right after Bass Fishing for the US.

 

The American designed Morelli and Melvin boat may very well just have to much of an advantage for Oracle to overcome. After all the talk of foils and waterline, it seems as though rocker will take the cup.

 

I just can't think of a way to get Oracle's bows up without seriously increasing drag, but i also thought Oracle would have had the advantage upwind for months leading up to this. So apparently, suprising to none, there are far smarter folks than I working towards solutions. tick..tock.. tick... tock with these craft it seem even minor adjustments could be enough to invite utter disaster.

 

Well Spithil i believe lost to Sir Ben on a Laser before Big Ben went to the Finn. Maybe the Finn. DB raced them and obviously BA, dunno about Spitthill.



#86 Evan Stufflebeam

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 06:58 PM

Attached File  AllIsLostJS.jpeg   536K   77 downloads



#87 street_Gang

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:00 PM

So whilst we are waiting for racing to begin, a quick Trivia question;
 
Which one Design boat have Dean Barker, Jimmy Spithill, and Ben Ainslie all raced in (helming), but never raced against each other, and also never won in ? 


Star?

Sorry no

 

It's bigger than a Star



#88 klaxon

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:02 PM

I am conserned that, if tomorrow bringz a new set of condishuns the botes hav not lyned up in,
there iz a chants that OR coud be the faster bote. Not big, but not tiny.
 
And any mods thay ar making at this late staidje are (STM) mor lykly to diminish than to increess
any sutsh chants, becoz all the lo hanging froot will alreddy have been well and trolly plundered.
 
 
Becoz peepel lyk LE are notorius for demanding that "Sumthing be dun", thay seem to me lykly to
fall into the trap of generalz alwayz fyting the last battell. Last mode chayndje woz a caess in poynt.


Never send a hair dresser to do your job ;)

#89 Barnyb

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:06 PM

Are we having racing today? 

 

I am off to the squadron or maybe I should go back to bed?



#90 pjfranks

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:09 PM

GD figures if OR changes bows they'd have to shave 15-18kg from elsewhere.

One way might be to go with the shorter (and presumably lighter) sprit that we saw on one occasion; since it can't fly a Zero they could also remove a winch. If we see that obvious change then it could be the early tipoff.

But I'm pretty skeptical they will have done surgery that big in just 36 hours; and skeptical they have other bows even if they wanted to.

maybe they should swap out the b2 bows for the b1 bows. should see a difference there? maybe with the decals? :D



#91 Keith

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:12 PM

Well, its on TSN1 in Vancouver as, " Americas Cup World Series"    :ph34r: 



#92 ~Stingray~

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:16 PM

Can anyone see the OR boat yet?

Do they have the short sprit configuration?

#93 kitchensink

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:21 PM

Can anyone see the OR boat yet?

Do they have the short sprit configuration?

UPDATE: 1150 hours

At his morning briefing, Regatta Director Iain Murray said that both ORACLE TEAM USA and Emirates Team New Zealand had been issued new rating certificates. Although he didn’t elaborate on the extent of the modifications, one is very clear on the defender’s yacht: a new, shorter bowsprit (see picture).

 

http://www.americasc...hill-eyes-upset



#94 ~HHN92~

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:32 PM

NBC Sports Network on now, let's see what we get today...............................................



#95 pjfranks

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:40 PM

Can anyone see the OR boat yet?

Do they have the short sprit configuration?

they moved a couple of deck chairs as well :D



#96 PeeToLee

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:41 PM

Can anyone see the OR boat yet?

Do they have the short sprit configuration?

they moved a couple of deck chairs as well :D

 

Can anyone see the OR boat yet?

Do they have the short sprit configuration?

they moved a couple of deck chairs as well :D

 

Oh, so Oracle have finally named their boat?   :)



#97 pjfranks

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:44 PM

 

Can anyone see the OR boat yet?

Do they have the short sprit configuration?

they moved a couple of deck chairs as well :D

 

Can anyone see the OR boat yet?

Do they have the short sprit configuration?

they moved a couple of deck chairs as well :D

 

Oh, so Oracle have finally named their boat?   :)

 

have they got an onboard band?



#98 Indio

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:48 PM

Neither team wanted the damn things. But it was a sensible Safety measure and for that reason I supported it.

Unfortunately, most all of the rabid Kiwis here and in NZ media claimed that the issue was symbolic of a lopsided deck, IM was corrupt, blah blah blah blah bah. Ruddergate was Ridiculous, as was fighting it tooth and nail.

Hindsight's a bitch. That first attempt to cheat by illegally changing the Class Rules was a harbinger of subsequent proven cheating. Once a cheat....



#99 RHough

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:50 PM

So I'm in Boulder Colorado USA ... perhaps you've heard of it ... "biblical" rain ... over 18" in some reports ... flooding ... made BBC world news feed ...

 

I'm lucky no leaks and no flooding on my block ... I have power and internet ... so what does this have to do with Races 3rd and 2nd from last?

 

The local NBC station is broadcasting the BMW Golf chumpionship.

 

Feck ... I get to watch the video with the AC app on my tablet and the virtual eye thing on my phone ... How the hell are we supposed to drum up interest for a Buffalo sailing team at CU if the local NBC station won't even broadcast the damn race ... its killing sailing in the US ... just killing it ...

 

:-)



#100 Indio

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:53 PM

Stubby....

GMR11837-780x520.jpg






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